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INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE
UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFOEB A
SPECIAL
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES
SEVENTY-SEVENTH CONGEESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
H. Res. 282
"*/
TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND OBJECTS
OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED
STATES, (2) THE DIFFUSION WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF
SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA THAT IS INSTI-
GATED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN
AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE FORM OF GOVERN-
MENT AS GUARANTEED BY OUR CONSTITUTION, AND (3) ALL
OTHER QUESTIONS IN RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID
CONGRESS IN ANY NECESSARY REMEDIAL
LEGISLATION
J
VOLUME 14
AUGUST 29, OCTOBER 1, 2, 4, 1940 ; MAY 21, 22, 26, 27, 29
JUNE 10, 12, AUGUST 11, 1941
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Uii-Amorioan Activities
I
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE
UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SrECIAL
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIYES
SEVENTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
H. Res. 282
TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND OBJECTS
OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED
STATES, (2) THE DIFFUSION A\"ITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF
SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA THAT IS INSTI-
GATED FROIM FOREIGN COUNTRIES OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN
AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE FORM OF GOVERN-
MENT AS GUARANTEED BY OUR CONSTITUTION, AND (3 1 ALL
OTHER QLT:STI0NS IN RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID
CONGRESS IN ANY NECESSARY REMEDIAL
LEGISLATION
VOLUME 14
AUGUST 29, OCTOBER 1, 2, 4, 1940; MAY 21, 22, 26. 27, 29
JUNE 10, 12, AUGUST 11, 1941
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on LTn-American Activities
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
62626 WASHINGTON : 3 941
fj
' r
H^'^ o-r- <^
MAR 2.7 1944
U-
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES-
Washington, D. C.
MARTIN DIES, Texas, Chairman
JOE STARNES, Alabama HARRY P. BEAM, Illinois
JERRY VOORHIS, California NOAH M. MASON, lllicois
JOSEPH E. CASEY, Massachusetts J. PARNELL THOMAS, New Jersey
Robert E. Stripling, Chief Investigator
J. B. Matthews, Director of Research
II
4 * a «
1 • ••• •
CONTENTS
Pas*
Apergis, Vera 8616
Api leby. Walter M 8232
Ba.l y, Fred E 8569
Balint, Alex 85j7, 8614
Baluiiek, Ardrew 8619
Barker, Robert B 8640
Bell, Artliiir H 8307
Birmiiighim, Srephen W 8617,8812
BolUng. Jav Edward 8586
Bvoir, Lt. Carl 8210
Cowau, C. B , 8623
Crczier, Oscar C 8575
Franklin, Richard K 8558
Freitag, Elmer 8594
H ilMier. Otto 8318
Huff.nan. Hazel 8391, 8417, 8421, 8 57
Inzer, Hugh B^n 8532
Klapprott, August 8285
K.'ebs, Richard 8479, 8509
Kunze, Gerhard Wilhelm , 8251
Lamb, Edward 8612
Michener, Lew 8595
Mosberger. John M 8639
Batman, Wright 8164, 8198, 8226
R^es, Herman A 8323
Schmidt, Godfrey 8826
Spargo, Mary 8404, 8436, 8443
S^ewprt, Joseph W 8251
S ripling. R-ibert E 8645
Werner, Richard W 8331
Young, Rev. A. M S31S
rn
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEEICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, AUGUST 29, 1940
House of Representatives,
Special Committee to Investigate
Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. 0.
The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., the Honorable Martin Dies
(chairman), presiding.
Present: Hon. Joseph E. Casey of Massachusetts, Hon. Noah M.
Mason of Illinois.
Also present: J. B. Matthews, director of research for the com-
mittee; Brien McMahon, Esq., counsel representing Lt. Carl Byoir.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order, please.
Because of the absence of a quorum the Chair will designate him-
self and the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Casey, and the
gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Mason, as a subcommittee for the pur-
pose of hearing Congressman Wright Patman, and also for the purpose
of hearing Mr. Carl Byoir.
As is known, several months ago the Chair appointed a subcom-
mittee, composed of Mr. Dempsey of New Mexico, Mr. Mason of
Illinois, and Mr. Casey of Massachusetts, to hear and investigate
certain charges made by Mr. Patman with reference to Mr. Carl
Byoir.
The com.m.ittee had one of its investgators go into the matter, and
a report was filed by this investigator.
This report, together with a report of the F. B. I., was considered,
as I understand, by the subcom.mittee.
Since the Chair was not present, he will call on one of the gentlemen
here on the subcom.m.ittee to make a more com.plete statement with
reference to the m.atter
Mr. Mason, I will call on you.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairm.an, in suro.m.arizing the situation to date
in this m.atter, I would say that cer*;ain charges were made on the
floor of the House by Congressm.an Patm.an against Air. Carl Byoir
that would tend to give the im.pression that Air. Byoir was un-Ameri-
can and that certain activities in the past, and perhaps the present,
would indicate so.
Mr. Byoir first requested of the Dies com.m.ittee that the com.mittee
go into the m.atter as to charges m.ade against hun, in full, check on liis
past, go over all of his accounts, and
The Chairman (interposing). That part is true. But it should be
stated also that Mr. Patm.an first m.ade the request that the matter
be investigated. Mr. Byoir made the request also later.
8163
8164 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Mason. All right.
Our investigator, Mr. Stedman, made an investigation, quite an
elaborate investigation, a thorough one, and brought a report to our
committee — that is, the full com.m.ittee — and the F. B. I. had also
made an investigation of Mr. Carl Byoir, and also had in its files a
report on the matter.
So that when your subcommittee was appointed, consisting of Mr.
Dempsey, as chairman, Mr. Casey, and myself, to take this matter
up we had available the files of our investigator, Mr. Stedman, and
the files of the F. B. I. Your subcommittee went over the files with
the investigator quite thoroughly and conscientiously, and also,
through the Department of Justice, the files of the F. B. I., and as
a result of that careful investigation your subcommittee made the
following report in this matter:
The subcommittee you appointed to investigate the un-American activity
charges made against Mr. Carl Byoir, after carefully going over the report of our
special investigator, Mr. Stedman, and also after consulting the files of the
F. B. I. in the case, find nothing to justify the charges made, nor any evidence that
could possibly form a basis for such charges.
We, therefore, find satisfaction in clearing Mr. Carl Byoir of the charges made
against him, and recommend that a resolution covering a complete exoneration of
Mr. Byoir be voted by the full committee as soon as possible, such resolution
to be based upon this subcommittee report.
We also believe, in fairness to Mr. Bj'oir, immediate publicity should be given
to the subcomznittee's findings.
Signed by John C. Dempsey, chairman; Joseph Casey, and N. M»
Mason .
The Chairman. The Chair wishes to make the statement that
Mr. Patman was assured by the Chair that he would have an oppor-
tunity to be heard, and present any facts or any information which
he had, and that this was in accordance with the practice that we
have heretofore engaged in, and that the committee intended to go
into this matter fully and hear all evidence that we could obtain on
the subject matter.
Mr. Casey. I do not think the subcommittee was aware of that
assurance given by the Chair, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. I do not recall about that fact,
Mr. Mason. But I think it is perfectly proper that such assurance
should be given, and that before action of the full com.mittee on this
report of the subcommittee be taken that should be done.
The Chairman. That is right.
Mr. Casey. Then we can go ahead?
The Chairman. That is right. Does that clarify the situation for
the sake of the record?
(No reponse.)
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Patman, will you please come
around? Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please?
HON. WRIGHT PATMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM
THE STATE OF TEXAS
(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Patman.
Mr, Patman. Mr. Chairman, knowing the fairness of the Members
of the House, and the reputation for fairness of Mr. Mason and Mr.
Casey in particular, I feel like that they will lay aside any convictions
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8165
thoy have had in this matter in the past, and start anew m its considera-
tion. I presume that is true. If it is not true I do not feel hke going
ahead.
On a committee of three, two of them, Mr. Mason and Mr. Casey,
have gone on record as being opposed to what I am going to say, and
exonerated this man.
The Chairman. Mr. Patman, the answer can be made to that by
these gentlemen by saying that they were basing their decision on the
evidence that tliej' had before them at the time.
Mr. Patman. At that time?
The Chairman. They had the report of the investigator, Mr.
Stedman, and the report of the F. B. I.
Mr. Patman. Yes.
The Chairman. Now, if there is evidence in addition to that of
course these gentlemen will be governed by the new evidence. I do
not have any authority to speak for them.
Mr. Casey. Tiiere is no question about that in my mind.
Mr. Mason. However, Mr. Chairman, having gone over all the
evidence available, and having found on that evidence a judgment
conclusion, it will be necessary before I change my mind that additional
evidence shall be adduced which would at least change the situation
insofar as the evidence that we have gone over is concerned.
The Chairman. That is what Mr. Patman proposes to do.
Mr. Patman. Yes. Of course, that places quite a burden on me,
and ordinarily one occupying Mr. Mason's position would not be
qualified for jury service, but I am perfectly willing to trust the
gentleman.
The Chairman. I think Mr. Patman should have the opportunity,
first as a Member of the House of Representatives, and then his
responsibility as a citizen, as well as a Member of the House of Repre-
sentatives, to be heard, as he is making certain statements and charges
here, and I am sure the committee has every disposition and desire to
hear what you have to say, because it is our duty to receive informa-
tion, and we are glad to give you the opportunity to proceed.
Mr. Patman. All right, Mr. Chairman; I appreciate the opportunity
you have given me for a hearing.
Regarding Mr. Mason's statement that he was probably influenced
in some way by the F. B. I. report, the F. B. I. could only investigate
one thing, and that was whether or not Lieutenant Colonel Byoir had
registered according to the law as representing a foreign principal.
And of course they failed to find that since 1938, when that law was
passed, that he had violated the law. So any exoneration of the
F. B. I. is necessarily restricted to that one point only.
The charges that I made on the floor of the House, and the charges
which I feel confident that I can sustain before this committee, were
that Lieutenant Colonel Byoir was guilty of un-American activities.
I realize, gentlemen, that is quite a serious charge, and I do not
make charges unless I have what I consider to be adequate and
sufficient proof to sustain those charges.
It will be remembered — of coiu-se, gentlemen, I hope you bear with
me, and are patient with me, and will indulge me for the reason that I
have a greater burden now than I would ordinarily have by reason of
the fact that this subcommittee, which I mentioned, passed on it,
although I was not heard, and so there has been a prejudgment of the
subcommittee, and that will necessitate my going into the matter lq
8166 UN-AMERiaysr propaganda activities
greater detail and possibly at greater length than would ordinarily be
necessary, and I hope you will be very patient with me regardmg this
matter.
I have no feeling in tliis matter. I am an American citizen, a
Member of Congress, and I have information which comes to me, and
I feel like it is my duty to present it to the right people if anyone is
guilty of conduct that an American citizen should not be guilty of and
he occupies a position in our armed forces that will possibly permit
him to have a great deal to do with the enforcement of the conscription
law when it is passed, and if it does pass, or the voluntary system in
the event the conscription law does not pass, and I think it is a matter
of serious and great importance. And I suggest to you that if this
man, Lt. Col. Carl Byoir, had been guilty of the same thing, as I
believe he was guilty of in time of peace, if he had been guilty of it in
time of war I believe he would have been guilty of treason. Of
course, that is a pretty serious charge to make. And I believe before
I am finished you will see I am 100 percent correct, and there is no
doubt about it.
Lieutenant Colonel Byoir was hired to disseminate Nazi propaganda,
including anti-Semitic and church and State propaganda.
January 30, 1933, Hitler became Chancellor of Germany.
Before I go further. Lieutenant Byoir as a lieutenant colonel was
not promoted from the ranks, but he was just picked out and made a
lieutenant colonel.
In 1931 it shows that he went into the specialist reserves, and he is
carried in the specialist reserves of the United States Army Reserves
right now.
In less than 18 months from the time he was appointed lieutenant
colonel Hitler became Chancellor of Germany on January 30, 1933,
and very soon thereafter there was an immediate new life taken on by
German organizations in America to sell new Germany to American
people and make them crave a dictatorship under Hitler instead of a
democracy, the kind we had.
Mr. Byoir was a propagandist, in addition to being a lieutenant
colonel in the Army Reserves, with offices in New York, and he was
employed by the German consul, Kiep, in New York at that time, and
within 60 days after Hitler became chancellor was paid $4,000 in cash,
in bills to represent the German consul in distributing certain litera-
ture, which was anti-Semitic literature.
The Chairman. You say he was paid $4,000 cash, in bills?
Mr. Patman. In cash, in bills.
The Chairman. Was any explanation given as to why the payment
was made in cash?
Mr. Patman. No; I do not know of any explanation. I know that
Mr. McCormack, the chairman of a committee, at one time looked
into this, and partially made some statement about it, and here is
what he said. Mr. Raymond Moley was on the witness stand, and the
chairman, Mr. John W. McCormack, asked Mr. Moley this question:
The Chairman. There was authentic evidence produced at the Washington
hearings, both testimony and documents, in the case of the former German consul,
Kiep, paying $4,000 for propaganda directed against people in this country,
whether citizens or not, because of tlieir race. Have you any opinion that you
desire to express as to the propriety of such actions?
UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8167
To which Mr. Moley replied:
Mr. Moley. I think it is thoroughly improper to do any such subsidizing of
any movement in the United States of that character by anyone who is a German
citizen, and particularly so when he occupies an official position.
Now, at that time Mr. McConnack did not know that this man,
Mr. Carl Byoir, was a lieutenant colonel in the Army, and had he
known that he would have known there were two people who were
doing something that the American people would frown on. First,
one from a foreign country coming in and trying to dictate our affairs,
and another was to employ one who occupies an important position
in our armed forces.
Mr. Casey. Mr. Patman, you said Mr. McCormack did not know
that Mr. Byoir was a lieutenant colonel?
Mr. Patman. No; he did not know it.
Mr. Casey. And he did not say that Mr. Byoir received $4,000,
did he?
Mr. Patman. I know; but I now refer to that testimony in Wash-
ington which shows that Mr. Byoir did get the money.
Mr. Casey. \Miat testimony is that, Mr. Patman?
Mr. Patman. The testimony before the committee here in Wash-
ington. Before I finish, Mr. Casey, I believe you will be thoroughly
convinced on that point, if that is the only thing that is bothering you.
Mr. Casey. I wanted that cleared up.
Mr. Patman. In the spring of 1933 Byoir was employed by the
German Tourist Information Office, and received $2,000 and $3,000 a
month for distributing literature, which I consider, and I believe the
members of the McCormack committee considered, to be prejudicial
to our form of government.
George Sylvester Vierick, a noted propagandist for Kaiser Wilhelm
in the World War, and who said that he was ashamed of America,
went to German}' in August 1933 to obtain a contract for Carl Byoir
to represent Hitler in Ainerica.
Mr. Carl Dickey, one of the two partners of Byoir's, was also in
Germany at that time.
Now, while Vierick was there in Germany he discussed the matter
with Hitler himself, and obtained the promise of a contract for Carl
Byoir, which was later approved by the German Minister of Propa-
ganda, for Byoir to receive $6,000 a month for a period of 18 months.
I am giving you a summary of this, gentlemen, for the purpose of
backing it up with proof. I thought that you gentlemen would appre-
ciate summarizing the case in advance, so that you would know what
to expect, and also to allow me an opportunity to present to you what
you require me to present.
The Chairman. May I make a notation at this time that there is
now a quorum present, and we are sitting as a full committee. There
are present, Mr. Casey, of Massachusetts; Mr. Mason, of IlHnois;
and Mr. Voorhis. of California, who has just entered.
Mr. Mason. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman. Yes, Mr. Mason.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Patman, all of this summary that you are giving
is a summary of what the McCormack committee went into and
found, and upon which the}' made a finding, which we had available
when we went over this matter.
8168 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
It adds notliing new. And unless you have got new evidence,
which was not mchided in the McConnack committee testimony, it
seems to me this is water over the dam, and is past.
Mr. Patman. I do not agree with you, Mr. Mason.
Mr. Mason. The McCormack committee did not find this man
guilty of un-American activities.
Mr. Patman. I beg your pardon. The}^ did. And if you will let
me go ahead I will convince you they did. So there is a difference of
opinion there. And I do not think you have read the committee
report very carefully.
Mr. Mason. That was my impression, and I went over it.
Mr. Patman. I think I will give you a different impression of it.
Now, wliile Vierick was in Germany to get this contract for Byoir
he discussed with Hitler this matter, himself, and later there was a
contract of 18 months, which was to extend from October 1933 but
wliich was changed November 23, 1933, providing that Byoir would
be paid $6,000 a month, or $108,000 in all, and certain expenses, when
he incurred certain expenses, in connection with tliis work that he was
engaged to do, and also trips to Germany and back in the event it
was necessary to send people there.
Therefore, Lieutenant Colonel Byoir became the highest paid
German representative of the German Government in America.
In Hitler's book. My Battle, he said this: That the masses must be
misled in order to be led. That fits in with his then Minister of
Propaganda, Goebbels, who said: "Propaganda knows neither right
nor wrong, neither truth nor falsehood, but only what it wants."
Col. Edwin Emerson, of New York, was named the Nazi Party's
representative in America about the same time that Byoir was given
a contract, both by the German Consul in New York and by the
German Tourist Information Office, which was nothing more than a
bund for the purpose of disseminating Nazi propaganda in America.
The Nazis commenced in dead earnest with such leaders as Lt. Col.
Carl Byoir, Colonel Emerson, Spanknoble, Schmitz, and others, to
make the American people like Hitler and dislike their own form of
Government, the American democracy.
Many different organizations were formed and old ones taken over.
This commenced immediately after the employment of Lt. Col.
Carl Byoir.
"Teutonia" was organized. The name did not sound so good.
So they changed it to the "Friends of New Germany." The people of
German descent did not seem to like that so much, so they changed it
to the "Friends of Germany." And the purpose of organizing these
different groups throughout the country was to induce the German
people to join and thereby assist Hitler in what he was trying to do.
There was the National Socialistic German Party, the Steel Helmets,
the Order of '76, Sons of '76, the bunds of the Friends of New Germany
and they organized all of these and many more different kinds of
organizations.
Mr. Casey. I understand that Mr. Patm.an is going to tie Mr.
Byoir up with these organizations; is that right?
Mr. Patman. I say this: He was head of publicity of all of this,
and it was done for the purpose of creating good will for Germany
under the leadership of Feulii-er Hitler.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8169
Mr. Casey. I mean you are going to show he has some connection
with this?
Mr. Patman. You woukl not expect that. He has that proof.
You woukl expect this as a part of the general program. In other
words, if he was a player on Hitler's team he would have to show
about this.
Mr. Casey. That follows very well; I mean you can get a great
(k'al of color with 3'^ou, but I do not see the relevancy if you do not tie
hini. up with this.
Mr. Patman. I think I can tie liim up. I think that testimony
would be good in a court.
Mr. Casey. I want you to tie it up.
Mr. Patman. I want to do it in m.y way.
Mr. ]Mason. Of course, Mr. Chairman, at that particular tim.e in
our State Dcpartm.cnt the whole set-up was engaged in relations to
m.ake friendsliip long before this happened, long before Hitler began to
show himself, and so the State Department and other Departn^ents of
the Government were cultivating friendship with the new Germany
at that time.
Mr. Patman. Do you niean in that anti-Sem.itic drive?
Mr. !Mason. I am not meaning any anti-Sem.itic drive. I am, m,ean-
ing that our State Departm.ent was at that particular tim.e cultivating
econom.ic, friendly relationships with the new Germany.
Mr. Patman. This was not economic relations entirely, my dear
sir.
The Chairman. All right; let us proceed.
Mr. Patman. Hitler Youths was another organization, and the
literature distributed to these children included this statement: "If
the world at large bares its teeth at Germany, we will smash it."
And it was always carried on a placard.
Clearl}^ the main objective of this group is to breed soldiers for a
war in w^hich Nazidom will conquer the world.
All got literature from Nazi Germany, that is, these different
organizations, which was distributed. It came over here on the
steamship lines, represented by the very group which employed
Lieutenant Colonel B3'oir. They brought in literature at will and
carried literature back at \vill.
Party leaders in the United States had to have the approval of party
leaders in Germany.
All of the steamsliip employees in America must belong to the
German union.
German citizens came in and elected leaders. Some of them had
uniforms in some organization the same as the storm troop uniforms
in Germany.
One of these organizations taught Germans how to fly at an
aviation field in New York City.
Mr. Casey. Before you leave Hitler's Youth distribution of
literature, have you any evidence that Mr. Byoir had any part in
the distribution of that literature?
Mr. Patman. I think you will be convinced that he was a part of
the program, the whole program, and in fact he was the highest paid
representative of Hitler in America. And how can he avoid respon-
sibility entirely for what was done by the groups who were working
in the direction of the same end toward which he was going?
8170 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Casey. By virtue of that you could tie a man up with any-
thing. I mean if you are going to make a particular issue about
Hitler out of this, and just say that Mr. Byoir was in general a part of
the program, I do not see that is relevant.
Mr. Patman. I think you gentlemen will be able to cast aside that
part which you consider material, and that part which you consider
immaterial.
Mr. Casey. I think we will be able to do that too, Mr. Patman.
Mr. Patman. Yes.
Mr. Casey. I was just wondering if you had anything more specific
than that to tie up.
Mr. Patman. That is my belief.
Mr. Casey. I was just seeking something.
The Chairman. Let us proceed.
Mr. Patman. T think I will be able to prove that Lieutenant
Colonel Byoir had been guilty of un-American activities.
The Chairman. Let us proceed.
Mr. Patman. In all of these organizations members were taught
that Hitler was a leader of German people all over the world. Bales
of propaganda came in on every ship from the German propaganda
office.
And, speaking of Hitler, Lieutenant Colonel Byoir prepared a
booklet, Speaking of Hitler, in his office, and it was distributed over
the Nation to boost Hitler and the Nazi form of Government, and
most certainly it was not anything to harm Hitler. It was some-
thing which Lieutenant Colonel Byoir would not have sent out or
the Nazis would not have had sent out if that had been the case.
Mr. Casey. What was that name again?
Mr. Patman. Speaking of Hitler.
Mr, Casey. Hnve you a copy of it?
Mr. Patman. No; I wired for it, and it was not available at any
place. But I have seen soro.e references to it in the different news-
papers and ro.agazincs only, which, of course, I am. not using here.
No propaganda was confiscated before Byoir became the highest
paid Hitler representative in Am.erica, but im.m.cdiately after his
employm.ent the am.ount of propaganda becam.e noticeable.
Germ.an citizens were allowed to go and com.e at will on German
steam.ship lines represented by Lieutenant Colonel Byoir.
Germ,an citizens swore that they were Am.crican citizens in order
to become members of the National Guard in this country. It seems
they were trying to get them just as high in the Army as they could,
ancl trying to get some in the ranks, too. The evidence cannot be
refuted that while Lieutenant Colonel Byoir was representing them
that they also were trying to influence aliens in order to get them
to becom.e National Guards in America in a number of cities.
The Chairman. Mr. Patm.an, your point is that Mr. Byoir was an
agent of the Gerro.an Government?
Mr. Patman. Absolutely. And also that the Germ.an Tourist
Inform.ation Office was nothing more than a front for the German
Governm.ent.
The Chairman. What was his agency so that he would have to
take that responsibility, what other acts for the German Government
other than what he was?
UN-AMERTCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8171
Air. Patman. In the boginniiig: of this campaign-
The Chairman (iiitreposing). What I am trying to find out is was
his rcprosentation as a pubhcity man, or propaganda m.an, or what-
ever you want to call it, such as to imply the whole range of Nazi
propaganda, which now and then has included a nmnber of different
subjects, and is there anything to show just what the scope of this
agency was?
Mr. Patman. That is they picked out a tourist office because there
is no linut to what they could do or say. They are doing that in
South An\erica now. They are doing that in other countries of the
world. Of course, they do it under the guise of "Build up Hitler,"
and if they build up Hitler 3^011 know what that will mean. They say
also that "We are trying to build up a good relation," and they have
selected a subject that covers every water front that permits the dis-
semination of any kind of propaganda, and their answer is that it is
to build up trade, and "We want you people to feel kindly to Germany
so you will go over there and travel." So the tourist office 1 as been
selected by the officials of the propaganda German office for them to
go into those fields and whatever they do or say it is to encourage
trade and travel.
I shall go into that further, Mr. Chairman, in my testimony.
The Chairman. The theory is, and seems to be beyond a doubt con-
clusive, that Mr. Byoir was employed by the German Government, or
by some official of the German Government, and he was employed for
certain purposes. It is not clear in the mind of the chairman just how
those purposes were expressed, whether limited so as to comprise a
particular field, and whether that field was legitimate, and the reason
I have inquired into it is that all governments employ government
agents. And 1 am informed that the two Communists are employed
by a certain government, and while in the employment of that govern-
ment at the same time they were writing columns, and I think it is
material to determine if this contract, general in nature, covered all
propaganda, or whether Mr. Byoir had a contract wliich was speci-
fically limited as to the character of publicity that he was to direct.
Mr. Patman. The chairman has a copy of that contract in his pos-
session, and I suggest he read paragraph number 2.
The Chairman. That is what I would like to do. Wliere is that?
Have you a copy of that? I must confess I have not read it.
Mr. Patman. Anyway, it says "To build up good will between the
two countries," which covers anything. Of course, he is not to do
anything which is of a political nature, or against the American Gov-
ernment. But 1 do not consider that just because a contract is worded
a certain way that you are bound by the wording of the contract, and
oftentimes when people have in mind doing something they put in the
contract that it will not be done.
Mr. Mason. I have read the contract very carefully. I found that
it is le2:itimate in every respect. And at that particular period in our
histor}^, wliir-h is different than now, anyone would have signed that
contract and entered into that contractual relation.
Mr. Patman. The gentleman can examine the lease contracts on
every house that is conducted for unlawful purposes in Wasliington,
and the}' will look good, too, because nobody ever leased a house for
gambling purposes, or at least did not put in that contract that they
had leased the house for gambling purposes.
8172 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The Chairman. The point you raise is the fact that if it did not con-
tain specific language it would not be conclusive itself, because the
German Bund and many organizations have had high-sounding titles
and high-sounding purposes and still not followed them, is that a fact?
Mr. Patman. That is a fact.
Mr. Mason. It is being used as a contract.
Mr. Casey. But, as I understand, this contract sets forth certain
things, and not such as the witness suggests, and on which I under-
stand from the witness he has positive evidence in regard to.
Mr. Patman. No, no; I did not say I had positive evidence as to
that. Do not put words in my mouth. I did not say I had positive
evidence as to that.
Mr. Casey. I did not quite get your position on that.
Mr. Patman. I said if you were going to lease a house for gambling
purposes you had never seen one in your life that did not contain a
prohibition against gambling. I say that not as positive evidence that
the reverse is true, but as evidence it does not always mean anything.
The Chairman. All right. Let us proceed.
Mr. Casey. You say the duration of this contract was for 18
months?
Mr. Patman. Yes; but do not overlook the fact that the German
consul employed Lieutenant Colonel Byoir and paid him quite a lot
of money when there was no contract there that I know of. We do
know that he disseminated anti-Semitic literature, evidently under
that contract, and that alone should be an un-American activity.
There is propaganda on every ship as to Byoir's employment.
There were armed Nazis aboard every vesssel after Hitler came in
and Byoir was employed.
Uniforms were taken by German citizens from ships and smuggled
into this country for drilling purposes, tickets, passports, or anything
else. And we do not know how many of them are left over here in
our "fifth column" today, because they came over and left at will and
came over and stayed at will.
Rifles were used by German organizations to drill a certain time
each week, and they recognized a duel citizenship because they went
to the trouble of following up these instructions at a certain time each
week.
These German-American organizations were formed to preach racial
and religious hatred; to oppose preparedness; to oppose all expendi-
tures to protect our country; and to obtain names and addresses of
all sympathizers of nazi-ism.
Since Lt. Col. Carl Byoir accepted employment from the German
consul in New York, and German interests spread Nazi propaganda
m this country which was inimical to our form of government, he
should certainly not be permitted to remain a lieutenant colonel in
the Army. This is no time to trust aliens in a national defense
program nor to trust representatives of aliens.
I hope you gentlemen will notice this, because I am serious about
it, and because I think it requires an investigation by your committee.
There is sufficient evidence to warrant an investigation into the
unholy alliance and close connection between Nazi propaganda in
this country and big business, or certain parts of big business.
UN-AJMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8173
Recently, a representative of the German Government was here to
cement Nazi propaganda and big business together, and was even
bold enough to take interest in our internal political affairs.
In this particular Lt. Col. Carl Byoir said in October 1938, at Rye,
N. Y., in a booklet that was distributed by one of his organizations,
and which was evidently approved by him, that he represented
American industiy in this country, with assets of $14,500,000,000.
That is a lot of money. If he represents American industry with
assets of $14,500,000,000, like he said, he represents about 90 per-
cent of the advertisers in this country, and he has tremendous power
and influence. And 1 think this committee should call upon him to
give the names of those concerns, in order that this committee might
look into til em and see if they have any connection with this unholy
alliance between Nazi propaganda and this certain part of big
business.
Now, I saw the statement which he gave to this committee, about
the connections he had in 1938 and in 1939, and they only aggregated
just a very small peT'centage of $14,500,000,000.
The Chairman. My information is — and I know it is correct, that
our investigator went to the offices of Air. Byoir. Mr. Byoir gave
him access to all of his books and records and to his clientele; his
clientele was in the interview, that his books were produced; and I
merely make that statement to keep the record straight.
Do not the investigator's records show that?
Mr. Mason. Yes, sir.
Mr. Batman. Yes; after the report had been made.
Mr. Mason. I saw a record of the hiterviews that had been had by
these people in that report.
The Chairman. Let me get the record straight.
The first thing you did was to mak(^ a request for an investigation.
Mr. Stedman was placed on it. Mr. Stedman went to New York.
He saw everybody, followed every lead he could get, and he made a
report, which was before the subcommittee.
Mr. Mason. Yes, sir; and he was appointed to do that.
Mr. Batman. Now, Mr. Chairman, would you mind letting me have
a copy of that report?
The Chairman. As I understand it, you came to the office and read
the report?
Mr. Batman. Surely.
The Chairman. Do you want a copy of it?
Mr. Batman. Yes.
Mr. Casey. I just want to clear up this point about big business. I
am somewhat confused about it. As I understand the reasoning of the
gentleman is that he says there was an unholy alliance between the
Nazi propaganda and big business.
Mr. Batman. Certain parts of big business.
Mr. Casey. And Mr. Byoir represents $14,500,000,000 of big
business?
Mr. Batman. Yes.
Mr. Casey. Therefore, Mr. Byoir is un-American?
Mr. Batman. No ; that is not the point at all.
Mr. Casey. Wliat is it?
Mr. Batman. You failed to catch it. I want this committee to
investigate and determine what cooperation there is between certain
3174 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
parts of big business and the spread of nazi-ism in this country. I
think they are doing it for the purpose of causing appeasement. I
think they are working together for that purpose.
I think I will have something more on that.
The Chairman. I merely wish to say, since you brought up that
point, that charges were made that there was some collaboration
between certain representatives of big business and certain representa-
tives of the German Government, that the chairman directed a full and
complete investigation of that matter, and there have been investi-
gators in New York on it, and in the course of the inves'i^ation we
have received no evidence sustaining those charges. And we have
three men there now invest iTating it, going into those affairs and the
records, so I wish to say that that suggestion has been acted upon.
Mr. Patman. That is fine. I have some information I will be
glad to give the committee on it.
Now, then, summarizing this matter, which I shall back up with
proof:
1. Travel offices generally used by Nazis as a front to dissem.inate
their propaganda.
2. Byoir employed when he was lieutenant colonel by German
consul a'ld by Hitler reoresentatives.
3. Byoir caused to be distributed literature relating to Germany
and her debts, church and state, and anti-Semitism.
4. Bvoir's crime is as great in time of peace as treason would be in
time of war. In fact, his conduct would have been treason in time of
war. Time element makes no difference. Each one is a serious
offense, although there is evidence in the files of tliis committee that he
represented the German Government as late as 1938. I am making
no claim about that at all, so it is not necessary to a'o into it even, and
it is not necessary to follow it up, but the point is: Did he ever represent
the Hitler goverrm.ent? Was he ever engaged as a lieutenant colonel
to distribute Nazi literature in this country? It n^akes no difference
whe^i it was. That alone to my mind would be sufficient.
The only question is: Are the allegatiors I make relative to his
employ me^^t and activities true? If so, he should not be a lieutenant
colonel in the United States Army at sundown this evening.
I resneC'fully submit that every alleo-ation has been proven.
I urp-e that this committee investigate big business' connection
with Nazi propaganda in this country. These thoughts should not
be overlooked: That Vierick was a partner of Byoir, if not now; that
Dr. Hinnrich Albert was a partner of Bvoir when he was German
commercial attache here. Dr. Albert is now the partner of Gerhardt
Westrick, now German commercial attache here as Hitler's secret
emissary to influ(Mice Wall Street leaders.
I just make that sugoestion in connection with the big business
part that was mentioned a while ago.
Now, I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that sworn testimony cannot be
improved upon, and Mr. Mason suggested that the McCormack com-
mittee's testimony should not be used. I respectfully disagree with
him for the reason that when that testimony was taken it was not
known that Byoir was a lieutenant colonel in the Army. Ofttimes in
the trial of lawsuits a stranger can take a transcript of the testimony
and possibly not see the points at all, but someone who is familiar
with it, or who has given it study and thought, can take it, piece it
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8175
together, make a case out of it, and a good case. So, in reference to
the McCormack committee's testimony I am bringing that out only
for the purpose of bringing this matter up to date to sliow you that
it is ahsohitely material now, and that the charges that I made are true.
And 1 do not think any member of tliis committee will say that if
Lieutenant Colonel Byoir, or any other colonel or officer of the United
States Army, ever represented Hitler that they should remain a
lieutenant colonel, or any other rank, in tlie United States Army,
Air. VooKiiis. Can I ask you a question at that point?
Mr. Patman. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. As I understand it, your point in that particular
respect is made on account of the fact that Lieutenant Colonel Byoir
was in the Arnij^, and it is not made because he represented some
other foreign agency; is that right?
Mr. Patman. I think he is guilty, both as an American citizen, and
particularly because he was an otticer in the Army. I think he was
guilt}'' of conduct unbecoming an American citizen, as w^ell as conduct
certainly unbecoming a United States Army officer.
Mr. VooRHis. But what I mean is that we have many people in
this country, and have had over a period of years, of course, who have
had connections with foreign countries in various ways. We might
not like it very much. But what I am trying to get at is whether
that is the main point, or whether the main point you are making is
the fact as an officer in the Army tiiat he did that.
Mr. Patman. I meant both. As an American citizen it is unbecom-
ing of him. It is an un-American activity, and I think you will find
that anything that he has done toward supporting nazi-ism in this
country in recent years has been because of the big-business element,
not because of anything else, and I think Hitler ordered his discharge
for a reason which I would consider, and consider logically, a good and
sufhcient one, so the point is lie did represent the Nazi government
while Lt. Col. Carl Byoir was in the Army, and that is the proof I
want to submit to you gentlemen.
Mr. Mason. There is no need for that proof, because that was one
of the findings of the McCormack committee. It has been definitely
established that he was employed by the German Government at that
time under this contract, and it has been definitely established that
he was employed by the German consul, and did receive a certain
remuneration for it, all of which has been defiintely established. So
there is no need to bring up evidence or proof of that now.
Air. Patman. Now, can I answer that?
Mr. Mason. Sure.
Mr. Patman. I think there is need, because the gentleman showed
he had gone over that testimony too lightly, or not carefully enough,
because he did not get the point.
Mr. Mason. They did not find against him as to un-American
activities, and that is the questior,.
Mr. Patman. I say that they did. That shows one of us is bound
to be wrong.
The Chairman. Read the finding.
Mr. Patman. If Byoir is exonerated he will occupy a key position
in our national-defense program. It will be one of his duties to have
charge of recruiting, enlisting, and drafting of the pcrsoimel for the
armed forces.
62.;2« — 41— vol. 14 2
8176 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Lt. Col. Carl Byoir's associates consist of Carl C. Dickey and Vin-
cent Lancaster. I presume everyone knows that the firm was really
Carl Byoir. I did not think anyone considered it as anyone else.
Mr. Casey. If they were associates then he was considered as the
principal man.
Mr. Patman. Yes.
Mr. Casey. I should say that he was the principal man even though
he had associates?
Mr. Patman. Yes ; that is right.
Now, Carl C. Dicke}^ testified before the McCormack committee
June 5, 1934, and said that his address is No. 10 East Forty-second
Street, New York; that his business was publicity ard business pro-
moter. That his firm name was Carl B3^oir & Asscciites; that the
partnership was composed of Mr. Byoir, himself, end Mr. Vincent
Lancaster; that the organization had been in business about 3 years;
that his firm represented the German Tourist Informaticn Office, 665
Fifth Avenue; that the purnose of the or2"anization was to promote
trave' to Germany on the railroads and other means of transit, includ-
ing steamship lines and hotels.
Dickey admitted that the Government would have some control
over the German railroads. That formerly his concern was the ad-
viser of an organization known as the National Committee of Jews
and Christians, which was called National Conference of Jews and
Christians, an organization to combat intolerance — religious intoler-
ance of all kinds. Dickey testified that about March or April 1933
he was consulted as a representative of Carl Byoir & Associates by
German interests in New York resrarding the effect upon their business
of anti-Semitism in Germany; that he does not remember the exact
time, but it was in the spring of 1933, after Chancellor Hitler came
into power in Germany. That he had a contract with the Germ.an
Tourist Information Office for Carl Byoir, commencing October 1,
1933, which obligated the tourist office to pay them $6,000 a month
for 18 months, Mdiich represented $108,000. That about all they did
for the $6,000 a month was to give to them advice and counsel and
cooperate with them in getting up material for travel promotion; that
they also got out a little bulletin called the German-American Eco-
nomic Bulletin. That is about all that he could recall that they did
for their money.
That he sent out some material for the consul general in New York,
page 35, that the German consul's name was Dr. Kiep, and he also
had conferences with Dr. Schwarz and Dr. Borchers, when they were
consuls there.
Dickey said he was in Berlin in August 1933. That he knew
George Sylvester Vierick and had known him for 10 years. That he
knew of Vierick's activities during the World War; that Vierick re-
ceived $1,750 a month out of the $6,000 paid to Carl Byoir; that he
could not think of anything that Vierick had done to assist Carl
Byoir & Associates, although they furnished him an oflSce and stenog-
rapher; paid all the electric bills and other incidental bills around his
office, besides the $1,750; that Vierick's office rent was w^orth about
$1,000 a year, which they paid.
Byoir also had a Berlin office.
Mr. Casey. $1,000 a year?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8177
Mr. Patman. That was the office rent only. He got $1,750 a
month.
Mr. Casey. That is just for that German Travel Office?
Mr. Patman. I do not know what it was. He was up there in
B^^oir's office. He had an office with them. I do not know what he
had him doing.
Dickey testified, page 38, that Carl Byoir kept a representative of
his o^^Tl in Germany; that his name was Fred Hamlin, and that his
office was in Berlin. And that was during the time that this was go-
ing on, and they had an office in Berlin and also one in New York.
Dickey said that his firm got out an economic bulletin. Seventeen
of these bulletins were gotten out. They were assisted in getting out
the bulletins by their representative in Germany, also by a committee
composed of Sclimidt — incidentally, Schmidt is the president of that
German Tourist Information Office that your representatives went
into the other dav.
Mr. Casey. This is in 1933?
Mr. Patman. It was in 1934 that this testimony was given.
Mr. Casey. You are talking about 1933?
Mr. Patman. This is with reference to the 1933 contract.
They were assisted in getting out the bulletins by their representa-
tive in Germany, also by a committee composed of Schmidt of the
German Tourist Information Office and Schroeder of the North
German Lloj^d Steamship Line, Mr. Beck of the North German
Lloyd, or rather the Hamburg-American Line, Dr. Degener, of the
German-American Board of Trade and Mr. Johnson, Leipzig Trade
Fair. Dickey said perhaps they were members of it too and there
were also one or two others who were members that he did not name,
he said. About 5,000 copies of the bulletin were printed each time
and sent out principally to newspapers and different publications;
that the material for it came from Mr. Hamlin of the Berlin office.
In other words, Byoir had an office in Berlin, with a man there who
would furnish him information over here, and he would take that
information and disseminate that information from the New York
office.
Mr. Casey. "Wliat kind of information was it?
Mr, Patman. I do not know what kind. I know what some of it
was. I do not know what all of it was.
Some few things were prepared by Vierick from his own organization
and some items from the members of the committee.
Dickey said in tlie issue of January 29, 1934, there was an article
on German}^ and her debts in the bulletin. That the reason it was
carried was because the question of debts had some bearing on trade
and travel.
That answers the chairman's question as to the discussion on
any of these bulletins you can always say that refers to trade and
travel in Germany,
Mr, Casey. By the same token, if it was trade and travel, you
would have to say it was trade and travel,
Mr. Patman, Dickey said when he made the contract with the
German Tom'ist Information Office that no such bulletin as the
economic bulletin was contemplated or thought of; that he did not
have it in mmd at all. There is further corroboration that it was
gl78 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
not necessarily the contract. The contract had nothmg to do with
this economic bulletin. The only thing they even claimed to have
done was to get out this economic bulletin, and he swears it was not
contemplated or thought of when the contract was made. So what
they did for $6,000 a month was not even contemplated nor thought
of when the contract was signed. They did not have it in mind at
all, he said.
Dickey testified, page 43, that he got up a report on the sentiment
in America toward Germany. You see, they did not do anything,
except they were using the Travel and Tourist Office as a front to
get up sentiment. This report indicates the amount of publicity
that Byoir was getting for Hitler in this country that was favorable.
Page 45, Dickey admitted that these reports were submitted in
German because some of the people who would read them could not
read English; that some of the reports went to their man in Berlin,
Mr. Hamlin.
In other words, they tested the sentiment of this country, got up
reports, put them in the German language, and sent them to their
man in the Berlin office.
Dickey admitted, page 46, that he collected for Carl Byoir & Asso-
ciates $4,000 from Dr. Kiep, the consul general in New York, in
currency.
Nothing was said about whether it was in cash or bills. Dickey
himself admitted it was ui currency. He said it was an unusual
amount to be paid in currency, but it was paid in bills.
That Vierick took him to see Dr. Kiep and Dr. Kiep asked him to
get out some releases for the consulate, which he did, and for getting
out these releases, including the postage, they were paid the $4,000.
Dickey stated, page 48, that on his trip to Germany, his employers
paid about two-thirds of his expenses, and he paid the other third.
Page 50, Dickey admits that he had meetings with the German
consul and at these meetings the policy of the German Government
toward certain rnces of people in this country were discussed. He
further admitted it was one of his duties to minimize the effect of the
anti-Semitism policv of Gernuuiy in this country; in other words, to
combat the effect of that policy in this country; that in order to get
the sentiment of the people they had read about 60 newspapers a day
from all sections of the country. When the reports were compiled,
some of them were sent to Hamhn in Berlin and some to Mr. Schmidt
of the Railroad Bureau and Vierick always looked at them, said
Dickey.
Mr. Casey. That was Bvoir's representative?
Mr. Patman. That was Byoir's representative.
The reports were gotten out about once a week; sometimes every
10 days or twice a month.
Dickey testified, page 53, that Byoir had been receiving two or three
thousand dollars a month to represent this same concern before the
wiitten contract was entered into.
The committee will notice that the written contract was entered
into on November 23, 1933, I believe, but within a very short time
less than 60 days after Hitler went in as chancellor on January 30,
1933, the German consul and the German Toiu-ist Information Office
also employed Bvoir. And that the Germ^an consul paid him $4,000
and the German Tourist Office paid him $2,000 or $3,000 a month.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8179
Dickey testified that the German consul paid him $4,000 to obtain
piibhcity in this country on tlie question of anti-Semitism.
The $4,000 was paid by the German consul to Byoir in May of 1933,
see page 56.
Dickey admits, page 58, that they never represented the railways
or the German Government until after Hitler came into power.
Dickey admits, page 58, that the railroads were under control of the
German Government.
Mr. Casey. Let me see if I got that right. You say that Byoir
was paid two or tlu-ee thousand dollars a month prior to the contract?
Mr. Patxman. Yes; he was.
Mr. Casey. Was it prior to Hitler becoming chancellor?
Mr. Patman. No; it was after Hitler became chancellor. Byoir
did not get any contract, nor receive any money, until after Hitler
went in.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, this is going over all of the testimony
that was taken by the McCormack committee, and it is a rehash of
the same, and what we are interested in now is the findings of the
McCormack committee rather than the testimony, wliich is all old
stuff.
Mr. Patman. If the gentleman will bear with me about 2 minutes
I will get to that.
Page 60, Dickey testified that he sent out, at the request of Colonel
Emerson, a pamplilet dealing with church and state in Germany.
I am sure the members of this committee loiow something about the
background of Colonel Emerson. He was one of the first to come
here representing the Nazi form of Government in America. He had
-charge of Nazi activities in 1933 and in subsequent years.
Dickey has testified that he sent this pamplilet out at the request
■of Colonel Emerson, and it was printed by the Friends of New Ger-
many, 17 New Battery Place, New York City; incidentally, this is
the same place where the Facts in Review publication is printed and
Vierick is one of the editors. It is where the German Consulate is
located.
On page 61 Dickey praised Colonel Emerson's work by saying that
he was doing a fairly good job. Dickey sent the church and state
pamplilets to the same list that he sent the economic bulletins.
The testimony of Vincent Lancaster, page 67, was that he was a
member of the firm of Byoir & Associates; that he was treasurer
and business manager; that he merely takes care of the books and just
business matters; and that there was a journal entry of $4,000 every
month which was collected from the German Consul, and that he
gave Mr. B3'oir $2,000 of it and gave Mr. Dickey $2,000 of it.
Now, in regard to Vierick I hope that the committee will give me
an opportunity to go into that a little bit more fully, because I believe
it is important in view of what this committee is now investigating,
as well as this particular investigation.
The gentleman from Illinois asked me to get to the findings of
this committee. This committee was composed of the Honorable
Jolm W. McCormack, chairman, Samuel Dickstein, vice chairman,
Charles Kramer, Carl Weideman, Thomas Jenkins, J. Will Taylor,
and U. S. Guyer. And the resolution giving the committee its power
•was passed on March 20, 1934, by the House, House Resolution 198.
8180 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The committee derived its authority from House Resohition 198,
adopted by the House on March 20, 1934. Byoir left immediately
for Europe.
The committee was charged with the duty of conducting an investi-
gation to find out the extent, character, and object of Nazi propaganda
activities in the United States, the diffusion within the United States
of subversive propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries
and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by
our Constitution, and all other questions in relation thereto that
would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation.
The first public hearing was conducted by the committee on June
5, 1934, in Washington, D. C, and is covered in Report No. 153,
Seventy-fourth Congress, first session of the McCormack committee.
The committee report covers two periods. The first one, the time
prior to the designation of Adolph Hitler as Chancellor of Germany,
and the second one covering the period after Adolf Hitler became
chancellor and to the present time. That is, the time of the report
which was made February 15, 1935.
Let me quote the committee's report. I am quoting it now:
During the first period, as we have characterized it, efforts were inaugurated
by individuals and groups, who beheve in the pohcies of the National Socialist
German Labor Party, to establish them here. This committee has evidence of
such efforts particularly in the cities of New York and vicinity, Chicago, and
Los Angeles. They sought diligently to bind together in this country people of
German birth and German descent into a political group that was and was to be
directed from abroad, in distinct violation of every known American principle.
Another quotation:
These individuals organized a group which became known as Teutonia, and
which, through various stages, finally becam.e known, after the advent of Adolf
Hitler, as chancellor, as the Friends of New Germany, which brings us to the
second period of activity.
That was a quote.
After Hitler became chancellor of Germany, what was done
throu2:h the Friends of New Germany in the United States to dissemi-
nate Nazi propaganda?
And I quote:
Early in the history of the Friends of New Germany the leadership was usurped
by one Heinz Spanknoebel, an alien, who entered this country claiming to be a
clergyman.
Mr. Casey. Wliat was that name again?
Mr. Patman. What was that?
Mr. Casey. I said — what was that nam.e again?
Mr. Patman. Spanknoebel. Maybe I did not pronounce it cor-
rectly. I do not know whether I have been pronouncing these namea
correctly or not.
Mr. Casey. I did not know; but was it Spanknoebel?
Mr. Patman. What is that?
Air. Casey. T said- — was it Spanknoebel?
Mr. Patman (spelling): S-p-a-n-k-n-o-e-b-e-1.
The Chairman. That is right ; Spanknoebel.
Mr. Patman. And I am. still quoting:
One of his first activities was to take over, by intimidation and without com-
pensation, a small newspaper in New York published by the German Legion, which
paper he largely financed by subsidies under the guise of advertisements granted
him by the German steamship lines as well as the German railways.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8181
In other words, gentlen\en, the same people that were behind
Spanlviioebel were behind Byoir, and I make that comm.ent because
the money was coming from the same source, and that is the reason I
am bringhig this in.
And 1 quote again:
Documentary evidence before the committee obtained from the companies
shows that this subsidy was ordered from Germany and amounted, in the case of
the steamship hnes, to §600 per month and in the case of the railways to $200 per
month without regard to the amount of space used. The evidence estabhshed
that S])anknooijel ordered another American-German paper in New York City to
discontinue its publication, which order, while resented, was complied with.
The evidence also shows that he undertook to determine and supervise the news
and editorial pohcy of certain other American newspapers, and that in at least one
case his orders were refused and his efforts resisted.
Spanknoebel was working for the same people who were usmg the
same "front" that Carl Byoir was working for. Spanknoebel was
working at the same time that Carl Byoir was workmg. In other
words, the two of them belonged to the same group that was attempt-
ing to sell nazi-ism to the American people.
Mr. Mason. Wait one moment.
Mr. Patman. Just a moment, please.
Each, however, had his own distmct duties to perform in that
connection. Spanknoebel, a clergyman; Byoir, a publicity man; but
both workmg for Adolf Hitler.
Air. Mason. The fact that Mr. Byoir was working for the German
Government, and that Spanloioebel was working for the German
Government, and that Spanlvnoebel perhaps was doing certain tilings
and Byoir doing certain other things, and then you say Byoir is to
be blamed for any un-American activities which Spanknoebel did?
Mr. Patman. Not personally did, but carrying out this program,
both of them playing on Hitler's team — Byoir one part and Spank-
noebel the other.
Mr. Mason. Hitler's team at that time had not shown his mailed
fist.
Mr. Patman. Oh, I think so.
Mr. Casey. It was after that that Colonel Lindbergh and Henry
Ford got medals from the German Government, and at a time when
there was not such a dispute as there is today.
Mr. VooRHis. Is this what you are reading now? The testimony
from the committee?
Mr. Patman. Those are the conclusions of the committee, the
unanimous conclusions, except I do not know why Mr. Weideman
did not sign it, but these are the conclusions of the McCormack
committee.
What influence did Spanknoebel exert over German organizations?
The members of the German organizations consisted in the main
of aliens.
Spanknoebel, indicted by a grand jury in New York in the fall of
1933, when both he and Byoir were working for the German Govern-
ment. He is now a fugitive from justice.
Spanknoebel's organizations in this country took orders from the
members of the Cabinet of Germany.
And I am now quoting again:
He also became very active in, and obtained control of, the Stahlhelm, a Ger-
man veterans' organization, causing those members who were opposed to his
policies to v.'ithdraw, and utilized the remainder of the membership and this
organization in the Nazi movement.
8182 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Further quoting:
Through devious methods he gained control of the United German Societies of
New York — a body in that city composed of delegates from many American-
German organizations — causing a breach among the members which has not yet
been healed. As a result of such efforts Spanknoebel exerted tremendous influ-
ence on the various organizations, most of which had been in existence for decades
in the United States.
Successful efforts were made to establish locals or units of the Friends of Nev^
Germany in many other American cities, the membership consisting in the main
of aliens, and the evidence clearly shows that the movement received the direct
and indirect aid of certain accredited German representatives to this country.
In the fall of 1933 a Federal grand jury in New York City indicted Spanknoebel
for failing to register as the agent of a foreign country, and he is now a fugitive
from justice.
His successor, Fritz Gissibl —
I presume that is right —
one of the original founders of the Teutonia, also an alien, then became the leader
of the Nazi group in this country and carried on the same general activities.
Later Gissibl was succeeded by one Reinhold Walter, who is a citizen of this
country. This was done in an eff'ort to give the organization the appearance of
being American in character, although Walter admitted to the committee that
Gissibl remained the real head of the movement and continued to dominate its
policies, altliough he, Walter, desired to divorce the organization from its German
connections. Mr. Walter was succeeded, in July 1934, by Hurbert Schmuch, a
naturalized citizen and college graduate, who was chosen for the position by
Gissibl and continued Gissibl's policies. He is the present party lead r.
Although started 7 or 8 years ago, its self-appointed leaders did not seek to
charter their organization until the fall of 1934. Recently Justice Edward J.
McGoldrick, of the supreme court, New York County, N. Y., refused to grant
them a charter.
However, lack of a charter, lack of a constitution or bylaws or any of the steps
usually taken by American organizations, did not hinder these leaders from
functioning.
The evidence plainly shows that they took orders not only from the National
Socialist German Labor Party but from some members of the Cabinet of that
country.
That is the end of the quotation.
Now, then, did Lt. Col. Carl Byoir engage in un-American propa-
ganda activities while he was working for the German consul or for
his German principals in 1933 and 1934?
This can be answered by an excerpt from the committee report.
Now I am quoting from that committee report:
This committee foimd indisputable evidence to show that certain German
consuls in this country, with all the appurtenances of diplomatic immunity,
violated the pledge and proprieties cf diplomatic status and engaged in vicious
and un-American propaganda activities, paying for it in cash, in the hope that
it could not be traced.
The references in that committee report to support this statement
are to the testimony that Byoir received $4,000 from the German
consul. So there is a statement from the committee itself that he was
engaged in un-American activities.
Mr. Mason. Oh, no. That is that the German consul at that
time was engaged in putting this across.
Mr. Patman. Would the gentleman say that the fellow on the
other end of the line was not just as guilty?
Mr. Mason. I would not say it.
Mr. Patman. I would.
Mr. Mason. I might be hired by someone with reference to Ger-
man activities, but that would not mean that I was hired for un-
American activities.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8183
Mr. Patman. Let me finish.
Did Carl Byoir engao:e in vicious and un-American-propaganda
activities in 1933 and 1934? The answer is "yes." The McCormack
investigating committee said that he did.
Mr. Mason. I have not found it.
Mr. Patman. How can the German consul engage in un-American
activities and pay Lieutenant Colonel Byoir in the United States of
America here to help him without Lieutenant Colonel Byoir being
engaged in un-American activities at the same time, when he was paid
to engage in it? That is what I cannot understand. If the gentleman
takes that position
Mr. ALISON (interposing). The German consul can hire this man
to do a certain thing, and that man to do a certain thing, and that
other man to do a certam thing, and because one was engaged in
German activities does not prove that this one over here is.
Mr. Casey. May I point out this situation: A gentleman was
engaged in certain activities before McKesson & Robbins, and nobody
would say that he was engaged in un-American activities.
Mr. Patman. I have not done anything wrong with McKesson &
Robbins; and if you say I did anythmg wrong then put it down in
writing and say it.
Mr. Casey, I have not said whether you did it or not, nor accused
you.
Mr. Patman. That is unfair. You do not say I did anything
wrong.
Mr. Casey. No; I did not.
Mr, Patman. Then why bring it up?
Mr. Casey. I am making a point analogous to your point that this
man w^as engaged in un-American activities.
Mr. Patman. No; it is not analogous at all, and it does not touch
either side, edge, or bottom.
The Chairman. Let us proceed.
Mr. Patman. All right.
Did Carl Byoir engage in vicious and un-American propaganda
activities in 1933 and 1934?
I just read that.
When Lt. Col. Carl Byoir w^as working for the German consul and
for the German Tourists' Information Office, the front organizations
for Adolf Hitler, did he engage in propaganda activities?
This can be answered by another excerpt from the committee.
Remember, this is John W. McCormack, and five other members, who
signed this report, wliich says:
Several American firms and American citizens as individuals sold their services
for express propaganda purposes, making their contracts with and accepting
compensation from foreign business firms. The firms in question were Carl
Byoir & Associates and Ivy Lee — T. J. Ross.
Mr. Mason. That is right; yes.
Mr. Patman. Therefore, the McCormack committee said that Carl
Byoir sold his services for express propaganda purposes.
And there is a finding of the committee that he was engaged by
German interests for the purpose of disseminating propaganda.
Mr. Mason. And that was legitimate, and is legitimate, even today.
Mr. Patman. Let us see about that.
Mr, Mason. And it has been recognized, even by the Registration
Act.
8184 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Casey. That is right. In 1938 Congress passed a law with
reference to that.
Mr. Mason. And recognized it.
Mr. Casey. Making it necessary for representatives of foreign
governments to register as to their activity.
Mr. Patman. So that was the finding as to propaganda of the Mc-
Cormack committee.
Mr. Mason. Yes; German propaganda.
Mr. Patman. That is right. But they said they sold their names
for express propaganda purposes.
Mr. Mason. That does not mean that propaganda was un-
American.
Mr. Patman. The gentleman can place any interpretation on it he
desires, but I am merely stating what the report of the committee
says.
Mr. Mason. I have read that committee finding, and have read
it very thoroughly.
Mr. Patman. The McCormack committee made another finding
that Carl Byoir was propagandizing the country for Nazi Germany.
The committee report is the best evidence. An excerpt is quoted
herewith:
Carl Dickey, junior partner of Carl Byoir & Associates, testified that his firm
handled the contract with the German Tourist Bureau with the fee for service
set at $6,000 a month. He testified that the contract was secured with the help
of George Sylvester Viereck, who received $1,750 per month with free office space
and secretary as his share of the $0,000. The committee finds that the services
rendered by Carl Byoir Associates were largely of a propaganda nature.
Mr. Mason. That is right. That is the finding of the McCormack
committee.
Mr. Patman. Wliat kind of propaganda was the McCormack com-
mittee investigating?
Mr. Mason. Nazi propaganda.
Mr. Patman. That is right, Nazi propaganda. And they found that
this firm and its services were largely for propaganda purposes. Is
not there a difference between distributing propaganda and travel?
Mr. Mason. No.
Mr. Patman. I thought there was.
Mr. Mason. It is very far-reached, it seems to me, when the
McCormack committee found, on the basis of the evidence of Carl
Byoir & Associates, that they were hired by an agency of the German
Government for certain work, mainly propaganda, if you want to
call it that, that that is un-American activities. There is a difference
there.
The Chairman. Let us see if we can get at what the situation is.
It seems that Mr. Patman is making the charges, as expressed in the
McCormack hearings, which is that Mr. Byoir was engaged in un-
Amorican activities by reason of the fact that he was employed by
the German Govern.ment.
Mr. Mason. That has been established. Those are not the
charges, but they are established facts.
The Chairman. And in addition to those charges, which accord-
ing to the record here terminated in what year — what year did his
connection terminate?
Mr. Mason. 1934.
Mr. Patman. In 1935.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8185
The Chairman. In 1935. Now, from the period of 1935 up to
the present date is there any difference, or do you make any cliarge
that he either continued tlie relationship, or that he has been engaged
in it since?
Mr. Patman. I have made no effort, because what better proof do
you need? If a man is guilty of treason 50 years ago would you
trust him in the Army now? And if he was guilty of conduct equal
to treason 5 years ago would you trust him in the United States
Army now?
Mr. Mason. Of course, that is a matter of opinion, as to whether
it is equal to treason.
Mr. Patman. You have a letter in your files from a man in Miami,
Fla., stating that he was representing the German Government in
1938. I do not need it here. The mere fact that you can, or I can,
prove it at any time is sufficient.
The Chairman. I am trying to get your charges straight. And
you say up to 1935 he was a representative of the German Govern-
ment or, rather, an employee for propaganda purposes, and based
upon that and upon the record of the McCormack committee, it is
your contention having once been found guilty as a representative
that he is now guilty of un-x\merican activities?
Mr. Patman. And that he is not a fit person to be a lieutenant
colonel in the United States Army, and that he is guilty of un-American
activities for doing that, not only as a citizen, but as an officer in the
Army.
The Chairman. You mean he is guilty of un-American activities
up until 1935?
Mr. Patman. We laiow he was then.
The Chairman. You have no evidence since then?
Mr. Patman. We need no further evidence. What more do we
need, or do you need? If you have a colonel in the Army who has done
something that has been equal to treason in time of war, what woidd
you do with him?
The Chairman. I am not confusing his position as a colonel in the
Army with liis position as being guilty of un-American activities.
Your position was that because up until 1935 he was employed by the
German Government that he was guilty of un-American activities?
Mr. Patman. That is right.
The Chairman. xA.nd there is no record that while he ceased his
activities in 1935, though nevertheless you thmk he should be dis-
charged from the United States Army?
Mr. Patman. That is right.
The Chairman. And your second position is having once been
guilty of un-American activities that he is still guilty?
Mr. Patman. No; that he was guilty of un-American activities.
The Chairman. Of course, he had a hearing before the Committee.
Mr. Patman. How is that?
The Chairman. In the McCormack hearings.
Mr. Patman. No; he was gone to Europe. The very minute the
resolution was passed he left for Europe and did not come back until
the committee adjourned.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, may I make this observation: I want
to say that so far as Mr. Bvoir's qualifications to act as n lieutenant
colonel in the Army are concerned, it seems to me that they should
be based and referred to the Army ofiicdals, and not to this committee.
8186 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
As to his un-American activities, if those un-American activities
were after the time of the McCormack committee, which gave him
a clean bill of health, then it is up to our committee to investigate.
Mr. Patman. Here is the clean bill of health that the McCormack
committee gave him:
Several American firms and American citizens as individuals sold their services
for express propaganda purposes, making their contracts with and accepting
compensation from foreign business firms. The firms in question were Carl
Byoir & Associates and Ivy Lee-T. J. Ross.
The German Tourist Office referred to in this report is the Gcrm.an
Tourist Information Office that is now under investigation by the
Dies committee, and was the front organization for Germany that
employed Carl Byoir.
Therefore, this committee of seven members, unanimously declared
that Lt. Col. Carl Byoir's work was largely of a propaganda nature.
Wliat better evidence is needed?
In order for this committee to say that Carl Byoir was not engaged
in un-American activities, it must say that the McCormack committee
was wrong.
At the hearings in New York City before the McCormack com-
mittee, when George Sylvester Viereck was on the witness stand,
Vierick testified that he went to Germany in August 1933, to secure a
contract for Carl Byoir to offset the wave of Nazi propaganda in this
country. \Vlien asked the direct question if he obtained the contract,
page 103, he replied that he was helpful in securing it. Wlien pressed
for an answer, he said he was one of the instrumentalities through
which the contract was obtained and that the other instrumentality
was the German Railroad Information Bureau.
In other words, two of them getting this for Byoir, one the German
Tourist Office and the other was Viereck, and they are interceding with
officials in Germany to get Byoir the contract. I think the question
and answer is self-exnlanatory.
The Chairman. The point that I have in mind is that there was a
McCormack committee to investigate un-American activities, which
they did, and that brought it up to what year?
Mr. Patman. 1935.
The Chairman. And all you have given the committee
Mr. Mason (interposing). So far.
The Chairman (continuing). Is the same testimony and the same
evidence that appeared before the McCormack committee, and that
brings it up to 1935, and that is a matter of record. I mean whether
it goes in this committee or not it is still a part of the files of Congress.
And from 1935 to the present, begmning with our jurisdiction in 1937
or 1938, the question so far as we are concerned is to bring the matter
from 1935 up to the present time. And this committee takes cog-
nizance of what took place before the McCormack committee, as we
have a right to do, but you should bring it up to date, from 1935 to
1940, and the material question, insofar as our finding is concerned,
would be determined by what evidence we have from 1935 to 1940.
Mr. Patman. Mr. Chairman, I do not think that all of this extra-
neous matter should be brought into this testimony until I have an
opportunity to present my case.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Patman. I think other extraneous matter should come at the
proper time. Of course, I am not criticizing the chairman.
UN-AJNIERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8187
The Chairman. No; but I was trying to get this point over: I
understand all these matters are matters of record, the iMcCormack
committee heard them, made a finding.
Mr. Patman. I will bring it up to date.
The Chairman. I am thinking about the time we are concerned
about, of course.
Mr. Patman. I think I am doing that.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Patman. Therefore it appears that the contract was obtained
from the German Government through two instrumentalities, Viereck
and the concern that Byoir was supposed to have represented. The
following question and answer relative to this contract is self-explana-
tory :
The Chairman. As to this particular contract, did you take it up with anybody
who was an official of the German Railroad?
Mr. Viereck. I advised all my German friends that it was necessary to do
something to counteract this wave of propaganda.
In other words, when Viereck was in Germany in 1933, he was
convincing everyone he came in contact with that it was necessary
for Germany to be properly represented in the United States to counter-
act the wave of propaganda against Germany, which was in effect
saying, to build up nazi-ism in the United States.
You see, there is a representative of Byoir talking to the representa-
tives of Germany in German about a wave of propaganda. They are
not talking about tourist travel. They want to build up Hitler, and
build up nazi-ism in the United States.
Now, about the contract for Carl Byoir. I will quote you some
testimony. This is from Mr. Hardwick, and he was counsel for the
committee — but the first is the charge true that Viereck went to see
Hitler himself about the contract for Carl Byoir?
Mr. Hardwick. How long have you known Mr. Hitler — Chancellor Hitler?
Mr. Viereck. I met him for the first time, I believe, some 8 years ago in
Munich, when I interviewed him.
Mr. Hardwick. Have you seen him since then?
Mr. Viereck. I have seen him, jes. I met him for the last time late in August
or in September.
That was in 1933, while Byoir was representing the German inter-
ests at two or three thousand dollars a month, as well as the German
consul in New York.
Mr. Hardwick. In these last interviews that you had with Mr. Hitler, did
you discuss German-American relations with him?
Mr. Viereck. Yes. Before meeting him, I conveyed to him certain ideas
suggested to me by the American Ambassador at Berhn.
The testimony discloses that Viereck had quite a conversation with
Hitler about building up good will for Nazi Germany in America.
It will be noticed that Viereck said that he conveyed to Hitler the
ideas suggested by the American Ambassador in Berlin. It will be
recalled that Byoir was then employed by the German Ambassador
in New York City and very likely there was a close relationship
existing between them.
The time that Viereck refers to as having conferred with Hitler was
in August or September of 1933, when Byoir was then working for
the German consul in New York and when Viereck was in Germany
suggesting a long-time contract for Byoir.
8188 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Viereck said he discussed better relations with America in all of his
conversations with the prominent people in Germany when he was
there in August or September 1933 to get a contract for Byoir. Among
those with whom he evidently discussed this matter was Von Papen.
His name is very much in the print now — Von Papen.
He said he saw him on that trip to Germany and that he was an old
friend of his.
The next is: Were Viereck and Lieutenant Colonel Bj^oir partners?
I will ask the chairman to listen to tliis testimony.
The testimony before the McCormack committee at the hearings
in New York, commencing at page 92, disclose that Viereck received — -
out of the $6,000 per month that Byoir was receiving from the German
interests — Viereck received $1,000 a month and a commission of $750'
a month, or $1,750 a month out of $6,000 a month that Byoir collected
from the German interests. In addition, he had an office with Carl
Byoir and he was furnished a secretary by Carl Byoir.
Therefore, Viereck and Byoir were partners.
The testimony further discloses that at the same time that Viereck
was working for the German consul in New York, Dr. Kiep, before
the long contract was entered into in November 1933, that Byoir was
also working for the Gennan consul in New York, Dr. Kiep. Viereck
received $500 a month. It is not known what Byoir received at all,
but it is known that he received at one time $4,000 in cash from the
German consul in New York.
What did Viereck and Lieutenant Colonel Byoir do under this
contract with the German Tourist Information Office?
Viereck says, page 97, that he did no*i write any bulletins, that he
may have helped to edit them. When pressed for further explanation,
he admitted that bulletins were issued, and the first one of the bulle-
tins issued "were a sheet of press excerpts called Speaking of Hitler.'^
[Reading:]
Mr. Hardwick. That was the first?
Mr. Viereck. That, I think, was the first.
Mr. Hardwick. And the second
Mr. Viereck. The second was an economic bulletin; yes, sir.
Mr. Hardwick. You did edit or help to prepare these two bulletins, did you not?'
Mr. Viereck. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hardwick. And he sent them out in this country?
Mr. Viereck. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hardwick. How many of them went out; do you know?
Mr. Viereck. I believe between three and five thousand.
Mr. Hardwick. Of each one?
Mr. Viereck. I believe so; I did not count them.
Regardhig different people that Viereck talked to while he was in
Germany in August 1933, the following testimony, at page 97, is self-
explanatory:
Mr. Hardwick. While you were in Germany last year, did you get in touch
with a man over there named Feltmann?
Mr. Viereck. Yes.
Mr. Hardwick. What kind of an office does he hold, if you know?
Mr. Viereck. As I recall it, I believe he is with the propaganda ministry,
and I presume he was a liaison official between that bureau and some industrial
interests.
Regarding the different people Viereck met and talked to when he
was in Germany in August 1933, the following testimony, at page 98
of the New York hearings of the McCormack committee, is self-
explanatory:
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8189
Mr. Hardwick. Were you, on these several trips to Germany, in close and
constant contact with the foreign offices, the foreign ministry, in Berlin?
Mr. ViERECK. I would hardly say that. I have many friends in the foreign
office, and I visited them.
The Chairman. Please answer the question.
Mr. ViERECK. The question is, whether I was in constant touch with them.
That means that I communicated with them daily, and so forth. I did not. I
have friends there whom I visited and with whom I discussed various matters of
interest to me.
Mr. Hardwick. That was in connection with this matter of German-American
relations?
Mr. ViERECK. Not only that, but it was in relation to material that I sought for
interviews and articles, materials for books, historical and otherwise, on wliich I
was working. But naturally they sought my advice.
Mr. Hardwick. You did discuss, with these German officials, German-
American relations and policies?
]\Ir. ViERECK. Undoubtedly. The topic could not be escaped.
The kind of literature put out by Viereck and Byoir and where it
was prepared is interesting.
The following testimony, page 98 of the New York hearing, is
self-explanatory :
Mr. Hardwick. That book or pamphlet. Speaking About Hitler, who prepared
that?
Mr. ViERECK. It was prepared in the offices of Carl Byoir.
Mr. Hardwick. Did you give it the final finishing touch?
Mr. ViERECK. I was consulted on each issue before it was published. I
occasionally gave them contributions, excerpts, which had come to my attention
and which I thought should be distributed.
I think, gentlemen, that is very interesting. There is Viereck, a
lifelong propagandist for Germany, a man who said he was ashamed
of America, who is now engaged in propaganda purposes for the
German Government, and was a partner working with Carl Byoir,
editing all the information that went out from his office to the different
people throughout this Nation. I think that is a point worthy of
consideration.
People with whom Viereck discussed Byoir contracts in Germany
in August 1933.
Commencing on page 104 of the hearings of the McCorm.ack com-
mittee in Viercck's testimony, Viereck testified that when he was in
Germany he discussed the Byoir contract with Mr. Winters, of the
German Railroads, and Mr. Feltmann; that he took it up with them
personally when he was in Germany and insisted that the sensible
point was to take some defensive measures; that he discussed the
necessity of employing somebody in the United States; that before
the contract was made, he not only discussed it with at least two of the
officials of the German Railroads, but "with innumerable people in
Germany.''
It then developed in Viereck's testimony that Mr. Feltmann is not
with the Gennan Railroads at all, but that "he is propaganda min-
ister," and that the contract was made afterward.
In the McCormack report, after a discussion of the contract of Carl
Bvoir and Viereck, the report said:
The National Socialist German Labor Party, through its various agencies, fur-
nished tons of propaganda literature, w^hich in most cases was smuggled into this
country. Some of it, however, came through our customs, because there is no
laiw against it. This is the committee's report:
"With the advent of Adolf Hitler as Chancelor, efforts to obtain supporters
for the Nazi movement were redoubled in the United States. Campaigns were
conducted, gieantic mass meetings held, literature of the vilest kind was dis-
seminated, and the short-wave radio was added to the effort."
8190 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANt)A ACTIVITIES
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, this is nothing but a reiteration of the
McCormack report and the findings of the McCormack committee.
Those are matters of record, and this committee has no right to go
behind the McCormack report. All we should do is to take into
account the McCormack report as a starting place, and form our own
from there on, and there has been not one scintilla of new evidence
which has been adduced here with this whole morning's testimony.
Mr. Patman. I do not think the gentleman is justified in saying
that, but if it will satisfy him I will add three or four more matters
before I get through.
Mr. Mason. I am looking for new evidence.
Mr. Patman. This all connects up.
Mr. Mason. I am not looking for what I have looked over with a
fine-tooth comb already.
Mr. Patman. I think I should have a right to present my case in
my own way. I think all of this is material. It is certainly material
to show that soon after Hitler went in office that this man was being
paid the highest salary in America as the representative of the German
Government, which is the man we are talking about.
Mr. Mason. That is all shown in the McCormack report and the
McCormack testimony. If the gentleman has anything further to
show than that we would like to hear it.
Mr. Patman. It is material now, because you have attempted to
exonerate him of un-American activities, and how can you do that
when the proof shows that at the time he was spreading Nazi propa-
ganda, both as to the church and the state? I am under a handicap
here. That is what I have to overcome. And that is what I wish to
go into.
Mr. Patman. It must be remembered that all this was taking place
while Carl Byoir was representing Hitler under the terms of the
contract.
While Byoir was representing Germany under this contract the
McCormack committee says that the following occurred:
German steamship lines not only brought over propaganda but transported
back and forth certain American citizens without cost, for the purpose of having
them write and speak favorably of the German Nation. A German steamship
company's records show that some of these persons received free transportation
at the request of the German Ambassador "in the interest of the state." Mem-
bers of the crews of these ships carried messages between party officials in Germany
and leaders of the Nazi groups here.
It was quite a common occurrence for steamship companies to invite residents
in this country to attend social i:)arties on board ships while they were in port,
and persons attending these parties were addressed by representatives from Nazi
organizations abroad on the subject of nazi-ism and the philosophies of the National
Socialist German Labor Party.
All this taking place while Carl Byoir, lieutenant colonel, was
representing German interests.
While Byoir was representing Germany under this contract the
following occurred, according to the McCormack committee:
The membership lists of The Friends of New Germany showed a large number
of aliens, who, although they have resided in this country for a number of years,
had never made an effort to obtain their first papers to laecome citizens. Yet,
these self-same aliens sought to dictate to American citizens and to find fault with
the American philosophy of government.
Wliile all of this was occurring Byoir was one of the players on
Hitler's team.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8191
While Byoir was representing Germany under the contract, the
following occurred [reading]:
Naturalized German citizens believed that this conferred upon them a dual
citizenship.
The Friends of New Germany conducted so-called youth summer camps at
different localities, at which camps nothing of American history or of American
principles of government were taught, even to the children of American citizens
of German extraction.
On the contrary, the children were taught to recognize Chancellor Hitler as
their leader, to salute him on all occasions, and to believe that the principles of
government taught by him were superior to the principles of our Government.
At these camps the official language was German, the swastika flag was promi-
nently displayed at the headquarters tent, and at the morning and evening exer-
cises the flag was saluted in Nazi style, and the director of the camp, in charge
of these children, was an alien who displayed unusual ignorance of many of the
principles of the United States Government, and whose personal allegiance was
solely to the German Government and its present ruler.
The investigation conducted by the McCormack committee
extended over the period of time when Carl Byoir was Iviiown to be
representing German interests. Keeping that point in mind, let us
see what the committee said about what took place during the time of
Carl Byoir 's activities. Its report is self-explanatory, and a part of
it is as follows:
From the evidence taken by this committee in its investigation of nazi-ism in
the United States it develops that all kinds of efforts and influence, short of vio-
lence and force, were used to obtain its desired objective, which was to consolidate
persons of German birth or descent, if possible, into one group, subject to dictation
from abroad.
When this committee was appointed, the Nazi movement had made considerable
headway, greater in its influence than its actual membership would indicate. Its
efforts and activity, particularly with reference to its intolerance features, were
disturbing.
The disclosures made by the committee not only have stopped their progress
and caused the activities of certain German accredited representatives to this
country to cease, but a disintegration of the movement has and is taking place.
Efforts are still being made by the leaders of the movement but without the success
that they heretofore enjoj'ed.
This committee condemns the establishment and the propaganda of the Nazi
principles in this country.
There is another committee finding which contains the activities
of Byoir, because it condemns the propaganda of Nazi principles in
this country, which he was disseminating, which is a condemnation
by the McCormack committee.
Now, then, in bringing it further up to date, I desire to mention a
few things in connection with travel bureaus, but before I do that
I would like to offer in evidence a letter from the Secretary of State
that Byoir is now representing German interests.
The Chairman. We have that already in the record.
Mr. Patman. You do?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Patman. And a copy of the contract with the German interests?
The Chairman. We have that.
Mr. Patman. And where he obligates himself to cover the news?
Mr. Mason. That is not Byoir, but Viereck.
Mr. Patman. I know; but there is nothing in the record to presume
they were not partners. We know at one time they were partners
disseminating propaganda, and we know nothing further than that.
The Chairman. You can offer that.
62626 — tl— vol. 14 3
8192 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Patman. You take the White Book, which goes to every
Member of Congress, and probably goes to a number of people over
the Nation, and there is postage of 21 cents paid on it, and also here
is Facts in Review, sent out every week.
The Chairman. We have all of that.
Mr. Patman. This is from an organization in New^ York State, as
well as other propaganda.
Here is the man who is still disseminatmg Nazi propaganda in
America, who obtained the contract, and was a partner of Lieutenant
Colonel Byoir, and yet you say he is not guilty of un-American
activities.
The Chairman. If Mr. Byoir is no longer engaged in those activi-
ties
Mr. Patman (interposing). But when Lieutenant Colonel Byoir
was engaged m that activity.
The Chairman. If Mr. Byoir is no longer connected with Mr.
Viereck how can you connect him with it?
Mr. Patman. So far as I know there is nothing to indicate he is not.
The Chairman. We are going to hear from Mr. Byoir later this
afternoon as to what he has to say about this matter.
Mr. Patman. I have here in words, better than I can express
it in any words, and it is an article in PM about Viereck and about
this propaganda in America, and I want to ask the indulgence of the
committee to read it. It is right along this point, and it is in corrobora-
tion of what I have said.
Mr, Mason. You have got to connect Viereck and his present
activities with Mr. Byoir, and that is a pretty difficult thing to do, it
seems to me.
Mr. Patman. Byoir represents some of the biggest interests in the
country, and I believe there is a close working arrangement and coali-
tion between them in disseminating propaganda; I believe that
sincerely.
This is the issue of August 13, 1940:
George Viereck (Benedict Arnold) Is Germany's Paid Press Agent.
The Chairman. Wait a minute, Mr. Patman. That is from some
newspaper, is it not?
Mr. Patman. It is information better than I can express it.
The Chairman. What newspaper is that?
Mr. Patman. It is PM. I think it bears right on this point as to
these parts of big business, and I presume that the committee will want
to hear that.
The Chairman. We have practically all of that.
Mr. Patman. This hooks up with what I have said.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, we have voluminous evidence to
show how many Communists are on the staff of this paper from which
you propose to quote.
Mr. Patman. ^Vliat is that?
Mr. Matthews. I say we have voluminous evidence to show how
many Communists are on the staff of this PM paper from which
you propose to quote.
Mr. Patman. Yes. But what does that have to do with this?
Mr. Casey. I understand they get out a pretty good newspaper.
Mr. Patman. I know; but I think this is something that corrob-
orates wiiat I have to present. I have some further testimony to
present, of course.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIP^S 8193
The Chairman. We want to give you a full opportunity to be heard
and want to give Mr. Byoir a full opportunity.
Mr. Patman. This reads: "Figure in World War Propaganda Is
Still at Work in Present War," and it is by Henry Paynter.
Hitler's \o. I Benedict Arnold is George Sylvester Viereck
Sonic other proiuiiuMit Ainoricans parrot Hitler's Nazi propaganda for America,
over the radio anci in leading publications, and receive no pay for it.
But Viereck is well paid.
Viereck has been playing Germany's game against the U. S. A. — for dough —
since long before Hitler.
lie \vas naturalized in 1901, but he still comes close to Hitler's definition of all
8,000,0U0 German-.\nierican.s — "part of the German nation."
He has as interesting a Nazi record as anj- U. S. citizen.
He received scores of thousands of dollars in World War I for activities which
ended with the exposure of the notorious Dr. Heinrich Albert, then German
commercial attache here. Dr. Albert is the partner of Gerhard Westrick, now
German commercial attache here, and Hitler's secret emissary to influence Wall
Street leaders.
It was Viereck who wrote to the notorious Capt. Franz von Papen, German
military attache ousted for spying:
"I am thoroughly ashamed of my country."
" lusitania" charge
It was Viereck who, Albert Ij. Becker, New York deputy attoriiej- general
charged, received $100,000 from German Government agents, after the U. S.
entered the irar.
It was Viereck, according to sworn testimony of a newspaperman, who said in
advance that the Lusitania would be torpedoed. He later denied he'd said it,
although he thought it "justifiable."
It was Viereck who testified in 1934 that he had got $1,750 a month from Carl
Byoir and Associates for swinging a German Government "publicity" contract
to that firm.
It was Viereck who said in 1934: "I am a friend of Adolf Hitler's Germany."
In addition to special fees, Viereck now expects to earn $15,000 this year for
his talents in fitting Hitler's propaganda to current U. S. needs.
In the last World War, German propaganda here was clumsy. Viereck was a
good deal less experienced. It was i^robably at least equally as effective as
British propaganda in getting us into war against Germany.
Hitler didn't want to make that mistake, so Viereck shades Hitler's Nazi
propaganda in getting us into war to fit nuances in U. S. feeling.
Viereck is paid $500 a month bj' a Munich newspaper —
I will Tiot call the name, I cannot pronounce it —
Miinchner Neueste Nachrichten, Sendlingerstrasse 80, Munich; another $500 a
month by the German Library of Information, Hitler's official Nazi propaganda
agency in this country, 17 Battery Place. He lives at 305 Riverside Drive in a
ten-room, •*3,500-a-year apartment.
special fee
During the critical period this spring when Hitler jjlanned his United States
peace-intervention barrage, helped by Lindbergh, etc., \'iereck got a special fee
of $1,200 for special consultatioTi from the German Library of Information. He
expects to get more.
Hitler zealously tries to get his me.ssage to every .\mcrican. On lowest levels, the
proi)aganda comes here, now by way of Russia, from the Fichte Bund, Hamburg.
For middle levels it comes from Welt-Dienst, Work! Service, in eight languages.
Similar material is broadcast by P'ather Coughlin, the Reverend Gerald Winrod,
the Dishon. .loe McWilliams, and others.
For the highest leveb^, there is personal contact, such as Westrick, who uses
the Tnited States name of A. Webster. Westrick worked on .James D. Mooney
and many other prominent United States industrialists.
. It is V^iereck's Benedict Arnold job to corrupt the thinking of backbone
Americans. His contract with the Germanv Librarv of Information has his
8194 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
signed promise to prepare news for Facts in Review, official Hitler upper level
propaganda organ published under the supervision of Nazi Consul General Dr.
Hans Borcliers, to hold himself at all times for consultation on Nazi propaganda
problems in the United States of America and to interpret the news to favor Germany.
VIERECK'S JOB
3t is Viereck's job
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, I protest that Mr. Viereck is not
before us, and I can testify in connection with the indictment of Mr.
Viereck, all of which is probably true, and I believe it probably is,
that he had nothing to do with the situation we are facing and the
question we have to settle.
The Chairman. It is now nearly 12, and Mr. Voorhis and some of
the Members want to be on the floor, and we want to resume at 1
o'clock. How long will it take you to conclude, Mr. Patman?
Mr. Patman. I do not know, Mr. Chairman. Probably 30 minutes.
The Chairman. No longer than 30 minutes?
Mr. Patman. I am not quite sure, but that is my feeling.
The Chairman. Do you want to go on, gentlemen?
Mr. Mason. I would rather stay and finish.
Mr. Patman. The chairman told me that we would have just the
morning session, but it makes no difference, and we can continue on.
Of course, we have the tax bill coming up, and I do not think it will
help by our being there, because it is under the gag rule, naturally.
The Chairman. Go right ahead.
Mr. Patman. If you are having an afternoon session I would like
to wait until this afternoon, because having gone 2 hours, naturally
I am just a little bit tired.
The Chairman. Wliat is the pleasure of the members of the
committee?
Mr. Mason. I would rather finish this part of it, and then take
the other part of it up after lunch.
The Chairman. All right. Let us proceed.
Mr. Patman. This is entitled, "Viereck's Job."
It is Viereck's job to "interpret" or "color" information, whether it is to appear
in the Free American, Hitler's No. 1 United States propaganda sheet, or elsewhere,
so that it will further Hitler's strategy in his war against America.
It is obvious, then, that no Benedict Arnold is doing so much for Hitler in this
crucial period as Viereck.
He is assisted by Herr Heinz Beller, actual manager of the library.
The chief function is to supply information for non-Nazi publications here, and
for intelligent Americans. Germany's view of the progress of the war is told ably,
with subtle implication always of Gerro.any's confidence in victory.
Germany's post-European war economic plans for America are subtly de-
veloped.
By som.e strange m.agic, if you write to 17 Battery Place, you get other Nazi
publications; if you write to Father Coughlin or other Hitlerite publicists, you are
likely to get Facts in Review.
The German Library of Information is in the same building as the German Con-
sulate General, where a bomb went off not long ago.
MAILING EQUIPMENT
Its modern mailing equipment takes care of a mailing list of 100,000 individual
names, including the Young Men's Christian Association, the Young Women's
Christian Association, clergymen, university faculty inembers. Members of
Congress, university publications editors, school teachers, and radio commen-
tators.
The library also puts out and mails propaganda tracts, such as one to prove
that Polish atrocities against Germans caused the war.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8195
They have been successful in getting their statements, including those in spe-
cial books, reprinted in the Congressio7ial Record, and distributed at public expense.
Among these were writings criticizing the Federal Bureau of Investigation for ex-
posing "fifth column" activities.
Viereck's work in tliis field, important as it is to Hitler, is secondary to Viereck's
work in toning down Nazi propaganda to fit the palate of the leaders of United
States opinion, to whom it is fed l)y word of mouth through such persons as
Westrick, and by slick paper monotonies mailed to selected lists.
Thanks to Viereck, this vital Hitler propaganda seems superficially harmless,
legal, even praiseworthy, to millions of Americans.
So it is not surprising such persons as Charles A. Lindbergh and James D.
Mooney publich- parrot the same propaganda message as Hitler's short-wave
radio.
Moreover, everything they have done has been perfectly legal. Hitler boasts
that he can spread his power everywhere because the democracies are too dumb
to prevent his propagandists from conquering before a shot is fired.
Everything Lindbergh said and Mooney said along the same lines as Hitler's
propaganda for this country has been perfectly legal. It is clear they have not
violated the Federal statute against treason. But the two men have done more
for Hitler than all his bunds and spies here.
LINDBERGH, MOONEY
Lindl)ergh is an American idol. Despite his half dozen outbursts favorable to
Hitler, he may have been until recently the most popular man in the United States
next to President Roosevelt. His prestige, then, was tremendous. He holds a
commission as a flying colonel in the United States Army Reserve.
PM has shown how, sentence by sentence, Lindbergh's recent radio talk
paralleled official German Government propaganda broadcasts.
Of all Americans, only Roosevelt could have done Hitler a greater propaganda
favor.
Mooney, relatively unknown to the public, has distributed similar ideas.
^ Mooney is also a Reserve officer, a lieutenant commander in the United States
Navy, and occupies a key position in United States defense, as liaison and defense
production man for General Motors.
SOCIAL JUSTICE
More than 100 Hitlerite propaganda publications here were hammering away
at the same thing — one of the loudest and most persistent. Father Coughlin's
Social Justice, in which official Nazi propaganda is continually parroted.
In the June 10 issue of Social Justice, Father Coughlin gave the entire back page
to adulation of Senator Johnson of Colorado. In the same issue Coughlin's
page one headline was "American Nations Need to Begin Peace Plans."
On June 10 Senator Johnson introduced into the Congressional Record the fuU
text of Mooney's speech.
Then the Congressional Record publication was reprinted at private cost, but
distributed at taxpaj^ers' cost.
Thus, at a time when every possible means was being used to get President
Roosevelt to intervene to bring peace — which would be a Hitler peace — the
Congressional Record was distributing similar sentiments.
Asked by PM, Senator Johnson said he did not remember who paid for the
reprinting, and that the speech had originally been sent to him by somebody in
Chicago. He said he would look into it. He is for peace, and thought the speech
was all right because it was for peace, he said.
Mooney also paid to have the talk reprinted in pamphlet form, and widely
distributed.
But that apparently was not enough.
The Saturday Evening Post claims the largest audience of any United States
periodical. One of the Post's largest single sources of income is from General
Motors. In the Post of August 3, Mooney's talk, considerably bolder in amplifi-
cation, was republished under the heading:
"Though the Post disagrees with much that he says here, we thought his recent
speech * * * so hnportant and .so little quoted in the press that we asked
him to amplify that address for publication here."
In the Post article, called "War or Peace in America," Moonev again described
the horrors of war, and said:
"Germany felt that England and France exercised too great control over the
food for her people * * *.
8196 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
"On the day war is declared we can kiss democracy goodby and she won't
be back during your Hfetime or mine, or during the Hfetime of our sons and
daughters .* * *
"We have already done too much monkeying around in the European situation
during the past 2 or 3 years, joarticularly in the direction of encouraging England
and France to take Germany on for a fight.
HELPING ENGLAND
"Most military authorities agree that the chances of our helping England are
very slight. The present course of sending over military equipment is not promis-
ing, because the quantities of such war materials that we can ship in a hurry are
relatively small. Besides, much of the equipment is out of date. It is not the
kind of equipment that can stand up against a blitzkrieg * * *
"There is a lot of loose, theatrical talk going on in the way of encouraging the
British to make a last stand * * *
"It is high time to stop this fight and save England from further misery. It
is high time for us Americans to save our friends, the English, from a further
beating * * *
"If we are to save our friends, the English, at all, we must save them right
now by using our strength in the situation to compel a peace.
"We have got to state bluntly and frankly to the rulers of Germany and England
that we insist upon an end to the holocaust * * *.
LOOKING AHEAD
"The German military victories in this war have been im])ressive, but farsighted
leaders in that countrv must look ahead to the world structure after the
war
* * ^.
"England can now, on the strong intervention of a mediator, stop fighting
without acknowledging shameful defeat and without loss of honor. Even now,
through a mediated peace, there is still prestige, glory, and honor for all * * *.
"In other words, what we have to say to the political group in England is,
'If you won't talk peace now, but insist on continuing with the struggle, we will
not enter the war in a military way to help you.' "
This is almost precisely what the German short-wave radio has been saying
to Americans for 2 months, except that England's plight is depicted somewhat
more delicately by Mooney. And Hitler does not call the English "Our friends."
It is almost precisely what Westrick told Mooney 2 or 3 months ago.
/ know, because I heard Westrick say it, then. At the time, I was a financial
writer on the staff of the Associated Press.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I am just a little bit fatigued, and if you are
going to have a recess for a while I would like to have a rest.
Mr. Casey. I would just like to ask you some questions on that PM.
I do not remember the language, but it shows Air. Viereck was doing
the work of Hitler in this country, is that right?
Mr. Patman. Yes.
Mr. Casey. And it also accuses Lindbergh of doing work for
Hitler.
Mr. Patman. I will read what he says about Viereck, which is in
a little box at the top of the page, which is as follows:
The man on the front page is George Sylvester Viereck, naturalized citizen of
the United States of America, who had difficulties during World War I because
of his German activities — for hire. Then, he wrote lie was "thoroughly ashamed"
of his country. Now he has a contract with the German Library of Information,
chief source of Hitler propaganda here, and is well paid for it. The contract
calls for him to interpret the news in Germany's favor.
Mr. Casey. What does it say about Lindbergh?
Mr. Patman. About what?
Mr. Casey. About Lindbergh.
Mr. Patman. I really did not pay any attention to that part of it,
because I was not concerned about it.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8197
Mr. Casey. But you agree with the article with reference to
Viereck.
Mr. Patman. It corroborates what I have said.
Air. Casey. Do you agree with what it says about Lindbergh?
Mr. Patman. I am not making any statement as to that.
Mr. Casey. You put it in evidence.
Mr. Patman. I put it in evidence; yes.
Mr. Casey. Do you agree with what it says about General Motors?
Mr. Patman. They are not concerned in this investigation. It was
not material.
Mr. Casey. Do you agree with what it says about the Saturday
Evening Post?
Mr. Patman. I am not answ^ering as to that.
Mr. Casey. If we follow that course of procedure we will finish
very shortly.
The Chairman. What is the pleasure of you gentlemen? I wonder
if we possibly can conclude.
Mr. Patman. I think 30 minutes would possibly conclude what I
have to say, but you must realize that I have been talking over 2
hours already.
The Chairman. Suppose we come back at 1 o'clock?
Mr. Patman. I would not like to be bound by exactly half an hour,
but I feel reasonably certain that I can be here. It is now^ 12:10.
The Chairman. You see, we are very anxious to conclude this as
soon as we can.
Mr. Patman. These charges were made May 27, Mr. Chairman,
and I do not see why they should be rushed and hurried through in
1 day. Of course, that is for the committee. I am more or less a
guest of the committee, and I realize that.
The Chairman. Of course, I think you have been very much in-
dulged here, and permitted as much latitude as we possibly have, and
we want to conclude this if we can today. And there is the finishing
of your testimony and the hearing of Mr. Byoir, who wants to be
heard.
Mr. Patman. The committees usually recess until 2 o'clock. If
that is all right with the committee it would suit me very well.
The Chairman. We have often recessed until 1 o'clock. It just
depends upon whether you insist on it or not.
Mr. Patman. I am not going to insist on anj^thing. Whatever
the committee wishes to do will have to be all right with me.
The Chairman. Let us say at 1 :30.
Mr. Patman. You know when a fellow has talked 2 hours and
sometimes you do not get much rest in a half an hour, and you have
to take a meal during that time.
The Chairman. Suppose w^e say we reconvene at 1 :15.
(Whereupon, at 12:15 p. m., a recess was taken until 1:15 p. m.
of the same day.)
after recess
(The committee reconvened at 1:15 p. m., pursuant to the taking
of the recess.)
The Chairman. We will proceed.
8198 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
TESTIMONY OF HON. WRIGHT PATMAN^Resumed
The Chairman. Go ahead, Congressman Patman.
Mr. Patman. Mr. Chairman, if it is agreeable with the committee,
I can insert some of this material in connection with my remarks, and
it need not be read at all.
Do I have the privilege of revising and extending my remarks, and
inserting such things as I consider material?
The Chairman. You can just go along, and we will see what it is.
Mr. Patman. You say, for instance, although the committee has
this registration statement, it is not in any record that I know of,
and I want to insert it in the record.
The Chairman. We will receive that.
(The registration statement referred to is as follows:)
Department of State,
Washington, June 27, 1940.
In reply refer to Co 800.01B11 Registration—
Byoir & Associates, Inc., Carl:
My Dear Mr. Stripling: I acknowledge the receipt of your letter of .lune
18, 1940, and, in reply, have to inform you that neither Business Organizations,
Incorporated, 10 East Fortieth Street, New York City, nor National Consumers
Tax Commission, 310 South Michigan Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, is registered in
conformity with the provisions of the Act of June 8, 1938, as amended, requiring
the registration of agents of foreign principals.
Carl Byoir, 10 East Fortieth Street, New York City, also is not registered in
conformity with the provisions of the law mentioned above, but Carl Byoir and
Associates, Inc., 10 East Fortieth Street, New York City, registered as agents of
the Transpacific News Service, Inc., on October 7, 1938. By letter dated October
16, 1939, however, a sworn affidavit was submitted stating that the agency re-
lationship described in their Registration Statement had been terminated and,
accordingly, their Registration Statement was withdrawn from the public files of
the Department pursuant to the provisions of section 4 of the Act. I may add
that although this Registration Statement and its accompanying documents are
no longer available for public inspection, this material will, of course, be open to
inspection by your Committee upon request.
Sincerely yours.
For the Secretary of State:
(Signed) A. A. Berle, .Ir., Assistant Secretary.
Mr. Robert E. Stripling,
Secretary, Special Committee on Un-American Activities,
House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.
Mr. Patman. And I would like to introduce the letter from the
Secretary of State also.
The Chairman. We will receive that in connection with your
statement.
(The letter referred to is as follows:)
June 20, 1940.
My Dear Mr. Patman: I acknowledge the receipt of your letter of June 17,
1940, and, in reply, have to inform you that George Sylvester Viereck is registered
with the Secretary of State in conformity with the provisions of the act of June 8,
1938, as amended, requiring the registration of agents of foreign principals. A
copy of the registration statement submitted by Mr. Viereck, together with copies
of the supplements thereto, is enclosed for your information.
In addition to his contractual relationship with the German newspaper,
Mlinchner Neueste Nachrichten, Sendlingerstrasse 80, Munich, Germany, Mr.
Viereck also performs services in connection with the preparation of the publica-
tion. Facts in Review, which is published by the German Library of Information,
17 Battery Place, New York, N. Y. The German Library of Information is
registered in conformity with the provisions of the law mentioned above in the
name of its director, Mr. Heinz Beller, under the number 364 and date September
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8199
8, 1939. According to its registration statement, the "German Library of Infor-
mation is a library of public information on the social, cultural, political, and
economic development of Germany. It comprises several thousand books,
pamphlets, periodicals, newspapers, official documents, and standard works on
law, economics, history, philosophy, art, sport, etc. Its services are available
upon request."
Sincerely yours,
Sumner Welles, Acting Secretary.
Mr. Patman. Are we ready to proceed?
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Patman. The German railroads have always used the travel
bureaus and tourist offices for propaganda purposes.
Mr. Russell B. Porter, of the New York Times, made a trip to South
American countries within the last 60 days, and his articles have
appeared in the New York Times daily, and disclose a great amount of
German propaganda that is being disseminated, and also discloses the
tremendous sums spent in this country for that purpose. In this
article, which appeared in the New York Times, it was stated — I will
not read all of the article — but it says, "Travel Official Implicated."
It reads, in part:
Herr Voigt, who used his railways office as a propaganda center, was shadowed
and discovered ordering the printing of thousands of anti-Semitic pamphlets. He
was also charged with organizing Nazi parades and demonstrations. Herr Voigt
was arrested and expelled from Chile about a year ago. His case was handled so
quickly that the German Embassy and his powerful friends had no time to
intervene.
And if it is agreeable with the committee, I will insert the balance of
it in the record. That is all that they do, use those offices for propa-
ganda piH'poses.
(The editorial referred to is as follows:)
EX-DICTATOR HEADS GROUP
Another is the Chilean nationalist movement, whose former leaders. Gen.
Carlos Ibanez, former dictator of Chile, and Gen. Ariosto Herrera, were
expelled from Chile after loyal regiments discovered and exposed a plot to estab-
lish a regime on the Italian model.
Another organization that has been investigated is the Association of Friends
of Germany, consisting of many prominent Chileans, including retired generals,
university professors, writers, and intellectuals who were educated in or have
visited Germany and admire German "kultur" or feel grateful for favors shown
them in Germany.
This group meets regularly to talk about Germany. Its members make pro-
German statements in press and lectures and on the radio, especially coming to
Germany's defense when she's attacked.
The heading of this article was:
Nazis in Chile closelj^ watched for evidence of subversive acts — Travel agent
deported upon discovery that he financed an anti-Semetic paper — Enormous sums
spent for ])ropaganda.
This is especially interesting, in view of the fact that Lt. Col.
Carl Byoir claimed to be only a travel agent representing the German
Tourists' Information Service in the United States while he was
employed by the German Consul in New York and other German
interests after Hitler came in power.
There was the head of the Russian Tourist Information Service
convicted for buying Navy secrets. That is a case which is on all
fours, so far as using fronting is concerned, with this one.
8200 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The Honorable J. Edgar Hoover, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion, was the author of an article on how spies operate, in the magazine section
of the daily newspaper for July 28, 1940, issue of This Week. In this article he
discussed what I presume to be the only case in which the Department of Justice
has obtained a conviction of an agent of a foreign government under the espionage
statute. In this article, Mr. Hoover stated:
"SALICH-GORIN CASE
"A case handled by Naval Intelligence and the F. B. I. about a year ago throws
further light on the manner in which spies operate. Hafis Salich was born in
Moscow, Russia, in 1905. In 1920 he emigrated to the United States. He had
attended St. Joseph's College in Yokohama, Japan, and spoke Japanese fluently.
After he arrived here he completed a course at a business college in Seattle, Wash.
He worked for steamship companies oflf and on until 1926, when he became a
member of the Berkeley, Calif., police department. He worked there imtil
1936, when he was given a leave of absence to work on a special assignment for
the Navy Department. In the meantime, he became acquainted with Mikhail
Nicholas Gorin, who arrived in the United States on January 10, 1936, to take
over the management of the Pacific coast division of Intourist, Inc., a travel
bureau designed to promote travel in Soviet Russia.
"It is alleged that Gorin absent-mindedly left a document in a coat pocket
that was sent to the cleaner's. A patriotic citizen found it. It immediately
reached the hands of our eflicient Naval Intelligence. An alert officer recognized
the document as having come from Navy files. The F. B. I. was notified. A
joint investigation disclosed that Salich apparently had received $1,700 from
Gorin for reports that Salich was accused of having secured from Navy Depart-
ment files. Salich and Gorin were sentenced to serve prison terms for violation
of the Espionage Statute. As this is being written the case is pending appeal in
the United Sta,tes Supreme Court.
"Espionage agents have but one code: 'The end justifies the means.' The
meaTis can be murder, robbery, burglary, barter of loyalty, or blackmail.
"Identifying spies is one thing — proving their mission is much more difficult.
Of even greater importance to the protection of our internal defense is keeping
a check upon their plans. These plans, as a rule, are carried out by the under-
lings of spydom. The directors of esjjionage invariably remain behind the scene,
well protected by many imposing 'fronts.' "
I invite your attention especially to the fact that Gorin, who was the repre-
sentative of a travel bureau designed to promote travel in Soviet Russia, induced
an employee of our Navy Department to sell him valuable secrets, which were
secured from Navy Department files. Gorin occupied a similar position with the
Russian tourist agency that Lieutenant Colonel B> oir occupied with the Gennan
Tourist Information Service when he first commenced spreading Nazi propaganda
in America.
Now, another travel agency used as a front. In the Washington
Times-Herakl, of August 13, 1940, the following article appeared
relative to 17 Battery Place in New York, which is headquarters for
German propaganda, and this shows the agency bombed over there a
short time ago was a tourist information office, just like that used in all
other fronts as a disseminating propaganda office.
(The editorial referred to is as follows:)
Another Travel Agency Used as a Front
The Times Herald, Washington, D. C, August 13, 1940, carried the following
article relative to 17 Batterj' Place, in New York, which is headcjuarters for
German propaganda:
F. B. I. Bares Gestapo Ring in New York — Evidence Given United States
By Former German Consul
By John Cross and Guy Richards
New York, August 12. — F. B. I. agents, armed with the reluctant testimony
of German Americans, including the Reich's former consul here, will soon submit
evidence to the Federal grand jury that the firm of Deutcher Handels und
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8201
VVirthschaftsdionst, at 17 liatlery Place hero, is the New York, if not the United
States, he?dc|uartcrs for Hitler's Gestapo, object of heretofore fruitless search
since the New York German spy trials of 1938.
This is the firm, licensed as a travel and foreign exchange agency, whose offices
were damaged on June 20 last by a bomb blast injuring nine persons. * * *
THREE-YEAR FEUD
They called Dr. Paid Schwarz, for 4 years German consul here, and from him
gained confirmation of their suspicions that the June bombing culminated a
bitter 3-year feud l)etween Dr. Borchers, a scholarly career man in the German
foreign service, and the Gestapo staff that used the travel agency as a front.
Colonel Donovan's report on the "fifth columns" in the United
States is very interesting. This appeared on August 22, and had a
heatliine, as follows: "Strong 'Fifth Column' In United States Could
Be Oiu" Undoing — Hitler Conspiring for World Dominion — Immense
Sums Spent for Propaganda. There have been as many as $200,000,-
000 annually spent on organization and propaganda abroad. The
immensity of this sum is a secret. Nazi Germany is not a govern-
ment— not even a 'folkdom' of the sort Nazi orators talk about.
Nazi Germany is a conspiracy. Its scope is universal and its aim
world domination.
"Its primary agents are as many of the millions of the Germans in
Germany, and abroad, as can be induced or compelled to serve the
German fatherland," over here and elsewhere.
And I ask that the full article be inserted.
(The newspaper article referred to is as follows:)
COLONEL DONOVAN REPORTS STRONG 'FIFTH COLUMN' IN UNITED STATES 'COULD
BE OUR UNDOING' HITLER CONSPIRING FOR WORLD DOMINATION IMMENSE SUMS
SPENT FOR PROPAGANDA.
(By Col. William J. Donovan and Edgar Mowrer)
Since we must ascribe a huge share in Adolf Hitler's incomparable military
successes to his use of Germans and 'fifth columnists' in victim countries, the
questions arise: How was such a success possible?
How are Germans abroad brought to such self-sacrificing enthusiasm for the
Nazi regime? How above all can foreigners living under relatively mild and
civilized governments be induced voluntarily to betray their own countries for
Hitler's Germany? It seems mysterious.
The answer is $200,000,000 spent annually on organization and propaganda
abroad. The immensity of this sum is the secret. Nazi Germany is not a gov-
ernment— not even a "folkdom" of the sort Nazi orators talk about. Nazi
Germany is a conspiracy. Its scope is universal and its aim world domination.
Its primary agents are as many of the millions of the Germans in Germany,
and abroad, as can be induced or compelled to serve the German fatherland.
ARMED INSURRECTIONS
Its activities begin with attempted proselyting of Germans abroad, go on to
the murder and kidnaping of real or fancied enemies, and end in armed insurrec-
tion against the foreign country Hitler wishes to conc}uer or absorb.
Such insurrections of Germans actually occurred in Czechoslovakia, Austria,
and Holland. But for the firm attitude of the United States such an insurrection
would, many students believe, have occurred in Brazil.
That the Germans abroad are usually naturalized into something else is no
hindrance. Pre-war imperial Germany sanctioned tlie double nationality status —
Germans could, that is, become French or American or Portuguese without losing
their German nationality. The Weimar republic did not alter this strange con-
ception and Nazi Germany has made it the center of its Trojan horse tactics of
placing Germans within the enemy walls.
g202 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
GERMAN AIMS IN AMERICA
It is safe to say that a very fair proportion of the nonrefugee Germans who
have become Americans since Hitler came to power did so with the secret intention
of turning free and democratic America into their — that is, Hitler's, America.
Children of Germans naturalized half a century ago are still counted German
by Berlin and every effort is made to convince them of the fact.
Naturally the Nazis accept traitors as allies wherever they can find them and
welcome the assistance of non-Nordics. But peoples racially akin to Germans —
Scandinavians, Dutch, Flemings, German-speaking Swiss, even Anglo-Saxons —
are made the object to special proselyting as belonging to the "same blood." These
form the material with which the Nazi world conspiracy chiefly attempts to work.
The center is the Nazi Party. The tool is the Auslands organization (or
"organization abroad") of this party. Today this organization of Germans
abroad has nearly 4,000,000 members, all of whom are conscious agents. Over
600 local groups or "supporting points" are organized in 45 or more "landes-
gruppen" — one in each country.
DIRECTED BY ERNST BOHLE
The headquarters is in Stuttgart, but all the groups are directed by a single
man in Berlin, Gauleiter Ern.st Wilhelm Bohle, with some 800 assistants. Tech-
nically Bohle is a "state secretary" in the German foreign office. Where the local
branches dare not appear under their true colors they take on fancy names — -in
Rumania, the Iron Guards; in Switzerland, True Confederates; in the United
States, Amerikadeutscher Volksbund.
But everywhere, whether the members are Germans, naturalized Germans, or
non-Germanr, the aim is the same — to achieve Hitler's end by trickery or terror;
the organizing principle is the same, with SA and Hitler Youth and Hitler Sport,
marching, emblems, ruthless discipline, ceremonies in honor of Nazi heroes or
Hitler's birthday parties; and in case of war they would all be on Germany's
side. In time of peace they make lists of Hitler's enemies, who are marked down
for murder or kidnapping to Germany and torture when the great day comes.
SELLING Germany's cause
Organized Germans abroad are publicly told to 'obey the laws of their guest
country' but at the same time urged to 'convince every outsider of the necessity
of Germany's victory.' The Nazi party Auslands-Organization is by no means
the only entity that works for Hitler outside Germany.
Particularly important, notably in countries like the Third French Republic,
is the work of the press attaches in the German embassies and consulates. Not
only do they see that the 1,700 German language newspapers outside Germany
(total circulation 3,000,000) are supplied with interesting material of all sorts at
the price no other source can meet, but they also watch over German radio
programs.
Special attention is given to winning over possible Nazi friends on the local
press and combating or bringing into disrepute newspapers and periodicals that
oppose Hitler.
GESTAPO EVER ON WATCH
The German Gestapo of Heinrich Himmler, whose ruthless efficiency surpasses
even the Russian Ogpu, employs only about 5,000 agents abroad. One of its
special tasks is watching over German refugee emigrants, but it does not scorn to
cast an eye even on Nazis in good standing, some of whom have been known to
speak slightingly of the Fuehrer or to express a passing wish for greater personal
freedom.
Therefore one or more agents can be foimd in every German consulate or
embassy abroad. A good angler can manage to locate others in the larger German
commercial enterprises such as shipping or oil companies.
In addition to the agencies already mentioned, there exists a colonial political
department headed by Gen. Franz Ritter Von Epp, Hitler's special friend, which
carries on a livel,y pro-Nazi propaganda in the former German colonies and among
Germans in colonies of other countries.
Although there is some doubt, presumably it is the Gestapo that picks out
special agents for particular jobs in countries that happen at a particular moment
to interest the Nazis most. Rumor speaks of a high-class German technician
who managed to find a relatively insignificant job in an American broadcasting
company.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8203
Broadcasting plays a great role in German spy life. Not only the agents
possess tiny senders with which they transmit information unfit for the public,
but they receive instructions carefully concealed in ])ublic broadcasts from the
fatlierland. One such typical broadcast was that called Kamaradschaftsdienst,
supposedly intended for the soldiers at the front.
USE OF GERMAN SERVANT GIRLS
Tliere is no claim that this description of the German propaganda service is
complete. Conceivably there exist other even more interesting services. But
this much should make it clear why Adolf Hitler has been so successful in utilizing
Germans abroad and creating "fifth columns" among his enemies.
Thanks to the pains taken and the money spent, Hitler has in nearly every
country been able to do considerable in breaking down the national morale and
enlisting traitors. One particularly good dodge is in most places the creation of
two Nazi organizations, one of which acts in a strictly legal way.
Another (until it was found out) was the use of German servant girls. DutclV
employers of a particularly "dumb" German cook were surj)rised to hear her
conversing in the kitchen with a perfect stranger in fluent Oxford English. She
was dismissed, and took with her the more important famil\' papers.
TOURISTS COLLECT INFORMATION
German exchange students, carefully schooled in espionage and propaganda,
collected no end of information in Switzerland. Strength-through-joy tourists
carefully majiped Poland for the Reichswehr. It must alwa^'s be remembered
that no German receives police permission to leave the Reich, regardless of the
motives, until he or she promises to report everything seen and heard abroad.
Each must declare his address to the nearest Nazi ofhcial and keep in touch
with him so far as circumstances permit.
Hi the United States an organization of Nazis is being trained in arms. As
matters now stand it is conceivable that the United States possesses the finest
Nazi-schooled "fifth column" in the world, on which, in case of war with Ger-
many, could be our undoing.
WOULD BAN GERMAN PRESS
Could, but need not be. The Nazis are strong only where unopposed. Where
they are resisted, where the initiative is taken from them, they tend to collapse.
The revelations in the American press of the fortunes amassed and held abroad
by leading Nazis kept Goebbels busy denying it for 2 weeks.
It is hard to see why under present circumstances, in view of "fifth column"
activity observed abroad, countries that do not intend to submit to the Third
Reich permit any Germany-language publications or why they do not adopt
legislation allowing naturalizations obtained under false pretenses to be annulled
by executive act, or do not insist on knowing just what domestic industries and
commercial houses have tie-ups of any sort with the Nazis.
Failure to do this, failure to study and combat the entire Nazi Auslands organi-
ization, may have tragic consequences. Unearthed in time, the Nazi conspiracy
is relatively harmless.
Air. Mason. Mr. Chairman, I really do not see the relevancy of
these articles to the question before the committee.
The Chairman. Wliat Mr. Patman wants to do is to establish the
fact that these tourist concerns are used by Germany as fronts.
Mr. Mason. That fact has been established time and time again
before this committee.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Mason. And it was established before the McCormack com-
mittee.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Mason. And why should we take up all of this time to establish
the fact it has been accepted?
The Chairman. All rig-ht.
8204 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Patman. If it is accepted that Lt. Col. Carl Byoir was being
used as a front to disseminate propaganda I would not care to intro-
duce any further testimony.
The Chairman. You may proceed.
Mr. Patman. And if that is conceded I have one more item here I
would like to introduce.
The Chairman. Go ahead.
Mr. Patman. The following article appeared in the New York
World-Telegram, November 2, 1939:
Germany Lost no Time in Launching Offensive on Propaganda Front
(By George Britt)
The Goebbels propaganda assault began operations long before there was
anything Vjut quiet on the western front. Former Germans, to the third and fourth
generations in America, were approached and wherever possible were organized
according to their social class. Vast mailing lists were collected — of persons to
receive propaganda or to be called on for money or services or to bombard Con-
gress with letters.
As I stated, Lt. Col. Carl Byoir was the first highly paid Hitler
agent in this country; and one of the main things, as I understand,
that he was doing was to furnish names of people, secret mailing lists,
and things like that, and I think this committee, if they have not done
it already, should certainly get a list of the names furnished these
people who were engaged in Nazi propaganda, without a doubt, and
possibly they are still being used.
Every possible ally, however temporary, was enlisted. Every means was
utilized — lecturers, news dispatches, publicity hand-outs, papers, magazines,
radio l^roadcasts — for putting Nazi Gerinany's message across.
I will ask that you put this whole thing in.
(The editorial referred to is as follows:)
Germany Lost No Time in Launching Offensive on Propaganda Front
(By George Britt)
The Goeljbels' propaganda assault began operations long before there was any-
thing but quiet on the western front. Former Germans, to the third and fourth
generations in America, were approached and wherever possible were organized
according to tlieir social class. Vast mailing lists were collected — of persons to
receive i)ropaganda or to be called on for money or services or to bombard Congress
with letters.
Every possible ally, however temporary, was enlisted. Every means was
utilized — lecturers, news dispatches, publicity hand-outs, papers, magazines, radio
broadcasts — for i^utting Nazi Germany's message across.
MR. viereck
And as if for old-times' sake, there also was George Sylvester Viereck, now
registered with the State Department as a German agent.
Mr. Viereck, who called himself "the Kaiser's spokesman in America" and
piililished his Fatherland weekly during the last war, was returned to the head-
lines in 1934 by the McCormack investigating committee. It was shown that
he had got $1,750 a month for publicity for Nazi Germany and an additional
$500 a month for advice concerning propaganda to the consul general.
Mr. Patman. I have a prepared statement here as to nazi-ism, and
it is not very long, and I would like to ask permission to insert it
instead of reading it, if it is all right. I assure you that it is along the
lines of tilings which is not entirely cumulative, and some of it is in a
very different way than what I have gone into.
The Chairman. What is the purpose of it?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8205
Mr. Patman. The purpose of it is to show what other people think
about spreading Nazi propaganda in this country, and how it spreads,
and the resuhs of how it spreads.
The Chairman. Su])pose we receive that as an exhibit.
Mr. Patman. I would rather have it in as part of my remarks.
I assure you it is proper and material.
The Chairman. Just place it in the record, and we will go over it.
Wlio is it by?
Mr. Patman. I forget the man's name, but it is a chapter in a book
on nazi-ism and I am advised that this chapter is by Albert Brandt.
I imagine you have it in your office, because I think every Member of
Congress got one. It was published in 1934. It is a well-recognized
book, received all over the country.
The Chairman. If you wish to introduce it we will receive it as an
exhibit.
Mr. Patman. Then it is not copied in the testimony, as I under-
stand it. If I am mistaken about it it will be already a part of the
record, but I would rather have it in my testimony. It is not long,
and merely a double-spaced typewritten sheet.
The Chairman. It explains the operation of Nazi propaganda?
Mr. Patman. That is it entirely.
The Chairman. Put it in.
Mr. Patman. All right.
(The statement referred to is as follows:)
A well-knit active organization with iron discipline replaced the rather slip-
shod body which had preceded Hitler's rise to dictatorship. The work of this
group did not pass unnoticed in the liberal press, however. There were protests
against this dissemination of ideas inimical to American institutions and tradition.
April 30, 1933, the German leaders ostensibly dissolved their American branch
and recalled Manger.
May 1, 1933, the Xazis established in America the "Friends of Xew Germany."
Soon after May 1, another organization, "The Friends of Germany," was
organized for the purpose of spreading Nazi ideas to Americans of non-German
origin. The omission of the word "new" in this second title is a typical example
of what the Xazis no doubt felt to be a master stroke of intrigue. They doubtless
thought it would be easier to enlist Americans as friends merely of Germany than
as friends of the "new" Germany.
Dr. Xieland's decree, previously referred to, was reproduced in the January
1933, number of the Nazi organ, America's Deutsche Post: "In order to consoli-
date all local German groups in America," the decree reads, "and to pave the
way for the establishment of units to comprise an American section of the Xa-
tional Socialist Party, I hereby appoint Comrade Heinz Spanknoebel, of Detroit,
national confidential agent for the United States of Xorth America. * * *
The confidential agent shall be responsible only to the chief of the foreign divi-
sion (Xieland) . It shall be his task to build up the national movement * * *."
The Voelkiseher Beobachter on August o, 1933, hailed the organization of Xazi
cells in America and referred to Heinz Spanknoebel as their leader. The paper
stated that one of the objects of the American group was to raise a fund of
$5,000,000 to spread Xazi ideas.
October 29, 1933, a big German Day celebration was staged for the New York
Armory, but it was not held because Mayor O'Brien prohibited the celebration
on the ground that it would be dangerous to the peace of the city.
December 10, 1933, the meeting was held under the auspices of the Steuben
Society. It turned out to be a X'azi ma.ss meeting.
Members of the "Friends of Xew Germany" have organized an extensive
espionage system. Every German refugee is carefully watched. If he is a
Xazi follower, he will be assisted in every way possible; if he is not a follower of
Hitler, he is watched very carefully and reports made to immigration authorities.
The Xorth German and Hamburg-American Lines' offices in Xew York are
hotbeds of Xazi propaganda in America. The Xorth German Lloyd director,
H. Mensing, is the official representative of the Xazi Labor Front in America,
8206 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
working under the direction of Dr. Robert Ley, his direct superior in Germany.
Employees of these lines, in accordance with the German laws, have been forced
to join the Nazi shop organizations. Mensing has forced thousands of German
employees of American firms to join the labor front on the threat that if they
should ever return to Germany they would be refused jobs and persecuted. The
steamship lines have brought tons of propaganda to this country. As recently
as on February 7, 1934, the New York Times informed its readers that United
States officials had discovered six burlap sacks containing 300 pounds of Nazi
propaganda on the German freighter Este. All thip material was addressed to the
chief propagandists in New York and other cities. A share was consigned to
The Friends of the New Germany. Naturally this propaganda dealt with
the Jewish question, though the anti-pacifistic and cultural phases of Nazi ideology
were duly stressed. Spanknoebel is reported to have fled to Germany on the
S. S. Deutschland without registering as a passenger. According to the New
York World-Telegram, Colonel Emerson did the same thing on the S. S. Europa
late in January 1934. Propagandists are smuggled into this country after coming
across ostensibly as members of the crew. Nazi conspirators have complete
privacy for their conferences aboard these ships in port. Employees of the lines
have taken part in Nazi meetings in New York.
American children have not been overlooked by the Nazi propagandists. In
New York a group called the Hitler Youth has been formed, on the surface a
kind of boy-scout movement, but actually a recruiting movement for the Storm
Troops. The literature distributed to the children included such statements as
"If the world at large bares its teeth at Germany we will smash it." Clearly
the main objective of this group is to breed soldiers for a war in which nazidom
will conquer the world.
Colonel Emerson maintained a "translation and advisory bureau" in the
Whitehall Building, 17 Battery Place, New York, which is also the address of
the German consul general. This happens to be the same place where the
publication Facts in Review was issued and a May 20, 1940, issue sent to each
Member of Congress by special delivery.
T. St. John Gaffney helped Emerson.
Frederick Franklin Schrader also helped Emerson.
Ferdinand Hansen, Joseph J. O'Donohue, Rev. Francis Gross, Arthur Fleming
Waring, and others, helped him.
But these are the more obvious propagandists. Far more dangerous are those
who pose as unbiased. They include professional lecturers, college professors,
"good will" lecturers and exchange students. Their name is literally legion, but
there is space here to mention but a few.
Douglas Brinkley, former National Broadcasting Company announcer and news
commentator, was one of the numerous American publicists who were invited to
Germany ostensibly to study conditions there. None of this group, which included
such men as George Sylvester Viereck, paid his own expenses. These visits have
already begun to show results in a wave of propaganda. Brinkley, for instance,
had no sooner returned to this country than he told a New York Nazi audience at
the Central Opera House that Hitlerland is a vertiable paradise, that the concen-
tration camps are models of humane comfort, and that stories of atrocities are all
untrue. Brinkley was the only man who addressed this meeting in English. He
informed the audience that he intended to travel throughout the United States to
carry this message. Mr. Brinkley, as far back as July, 1933, knew what he wanted.
On July 11, he declared from a German short-wave radio station: "I came to
Germany to become acquainted with actual conditions — to establish the naked
facts, and to enlighten the American people about the new Germany. Nowhere
have I been able to find even the slightest sign of unrest or mistreatment. I am a
witness that all disquieting reports about Germany are mere fabrication."
Brinkley is regarded today as the most important Nazi propagandist in America.
The Nazis hope he will eventually secure time on the national radio networks
here. In the meantime he is preparing to syndicate a series of articles. The
Deutsche Zeitung on January 20 said of him: "We know Germany has a very
good friend in Douglas Brinkley, and we hope, in the interest of our fatherland and
of the whole world, that his important voice will be heard so that the world will
know better the blessings of National Socialist Germany."
But it is Viereck who is the real "brain trust" of Nazi propaganda in America.
It is Viereck who sends an indignant letter of protest to the editor whenever an
American publication exposes the machinations of the nazidom here. It is
Viereck who censors all the Nazi publicity material in this country. Viereck's
trip to Germany was made with Carl D. Dickey of the firm of Carl Byoir and
Associates of New York, the publicity outfit which formerly represented the
UN-AMElilCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8207
infamous Machado. Apparent!}' the theory of the Nazis was that if tliis firm
could sell Machado to the American public it could sell even Hitler and Goering.
The, no doubt, tlisintcrested opinions of Messrs. Viereck and Dickey on Germany
will soon be fed to Americans through a series of syndicated articles. One may
expect that these gentlemen will be more circumspect than the crude, outspoken
George Schmitt.
German exchange students arc seeking in this country to dujjlicate the success
of the Nazis in Germany in winning the support in universities. If anti-Semitism
appeals so readily to European students, the Nazis reason, why not to American
students? Before the exchange students leave Germany they must sign a pledge
to speak only good of the Hitler regime.
A dcmanci that the activities of German exchange students at American uni-
versities be investigated to disclose whether they are exchanged in Nazi propa-
ganda work was made in October 1933, by Dr. Franz Boas, professor of anthro-
pology at Columbia University. In a letter to Representative Samuel Dickstein,
chairman of the House Immigration Committee, Boas cited the official order of
the German Government recjuiring all exchange students in foreign countries to
spread Nazi propaganda.
The Nazi press in America is urging its readers to buy good receivers for short-
wave radio broadcasts from Germany. "German stations on the air every night
for North and South America," headlines the German Outlook, English edition
of the Deutsche Zcitung. There are three broadcasts on short-wave stations
every daj', spreading propaganda from Germany to the United States.
The German consul general's office in New York had been the center of most
of the propaganda in this country. Here much of the funds were distributed.
Bills for propaganda activities were frequently paid by Herr Loeper, treasurer
of the German general consulate, and the receipts sent to Berlin along with diplo-
matic correspondence. Ambassador Luther, formerly of the moderate and
republican People's Party, with the accession of Hitler became an ardent Nazi
supporter. Propaganda bills have also been paid by Dr. Degener of the German
American Commercial League, which, with the German-American Board of
Trade and the German Legion, has carried on active anti-Semitic and pro-Hitler
propaganda.
The drain on the German Government's funds was such that in June 1933
Dr. Luther and Dr. Kiep, acting on orders from Berlin, summoned German big
businessmen in this country to a meeting at the consulate and told them it was
their duty to finance Nazi propaganda in America. Adolph Scheurer, director
of the American office of the Hamburg- American Line; Willi von Meister, Ameri-
can representative of the Dornier Motor Works, Friedrichschaven; Gen. A. Metz
and Von Rath of the I. G. Chemical Corporation, were given leading roles in
organizing big business as a factor in Nazi propaganda.
Mr. Patman. I respectfully submit that I have shown positively,
conclusively, and by sworn testimony the following:
One, that Lt. Col. Carl Byoir accepted enormous sums of money
from the German consul in New York and from a "front" organiza-
tion for Nazi propaganda in America, known as the German Tourist
Information Office, to distribute Nazi literature in America
Mr. Mason (interposing). May I just interrupt there to say, have
you said you have shown that conclusivelv? Is that the way you
put it?
Mr. Patman. Yes; I have.
Mr. Mason. That was all established by the McCormack com-
mittee in its findings, and in its evidence that has been printed.
Mr, Patman. You admit it, that it does?
Mr. Mason. Yes; I admit that part; yes.
Mr. Patman. Of course. 1 am glad you do, Mr. Mason.
As I was saying, including literature concerning church and state,
anti-Semitism, and in behalf of Hitler's form of government.
Too, it has been shown that this occurred while he was a lieutenant
colonel in the United States Army Reserves.
Therefore, no other proof is needed. The fact that he ever, at any
time, was guilty of such un-American activity should be sufficient to
62626 — 41— vol. 14 4
8208 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
cause this committee to recommend his immediate dismissal and to
make a finding that he has been guilty of un-American activity.
Mr. Mason. I cannot follow your logic there, sir.
Mr. Patman. I appreciate the fact that honest men differ about
things, Mr. Mason, and, of couree, this matter is a matter about which
we are all concerned. It is not a matter of any personal feeling on the
part of anyone, but it is a matter which we consider to be a public duty.
That is my opinion.
Mr. Mason. Then there is no personal feeling on my part, and there
has never been. The first time I ever heard of Byoir was when I was
asked to sit on a committee and go into this matter.
Mr. Patman. Further, in regard to a part of big business being
connected with Nazi propaganda representatives, I ask the committee
to investigate the connection of Lieutenant Colonel Byoir and George
Sylvester Viereck and George Sylvester Viereck, Lieutenant Colonel
Byoir and Dr. Westrick.
It is my belief that Viereck was here to try to encourage the big
industrial and financial leaders in this Nation to adopt an appeasement
policy toward Hitler and Germany, the same kind of policy that
France adopted; this belief is justified by newspaper and magazine
accounts of his activities and the fact that he was bold enough to even
attend one of our national political conventions, at which a candidate
for President was nominated. Certainly there is sufficient to justify
an investigation.
Mr. Mason. I did not get that, Mr. Patman. The fact that who
was bold enough to even attend a convention?
Mr. Patman. Viereck.
Mr. Mason. Of course, Viereck has not anything to do with the
question before this committee.
Mr. Patman. I laiow; but I am asking you to bring that in to show
his connection with Byoir.
The Chairman. We are investigating Mr. Byoir.
Mr. Mason. Mr. Chairman, I am connected, we will say, with big
business. Casey is connected with big business in a different position.
Because I am connected with big business and I have done things wrong
or illegal, therefore, because Casey is connected with big business he
must be just as criminal as I am.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Patman. There is a big difference there.
Mr. Mason. There is no logic in that.
Mr. Patman. You have not followed through, Mr. Mason. Your
premise is not entirely correct.
Do you want me to read that over?
Mr. Mason. Yes; I would like to hear it.
Mr. Patman. It is my belief that Westrick was here to try to
encourage the big industrial and financial leaders in this Nation to
adopt an appeasement policy toward Hitler and Germany, the same
kind of policy that France adopted; this belief is justified by news-
paper and magazine accounts of his activities and the fact that he
was bold enough to even attend one of our national political conven-
tions, at which a candidate for President was nominated. Certainly
that is sufficient to justify an investigation.
I realize that I have been seriously handicapped at this hearing;
that a subcommittee of this committee had heretofore exonerated
Lieutenant Colonel Byoir without giving me an opportunity to be
UN-AMEUICAX PROPAGAXDA ACTIVITIES 8209
hoard, nii<l without any nttompt to criticize tlic coinTiiittcc. it is nat-
ural to prcsunu' lluit all thiii(;s being (Kjual, you will have a j^resuinp-
tion in favor of this subcommittee's action.
However, I appreciate^ [he opportunity of presc^iting this evidence,
Avhich T consider is sudicient and to make recommendations as to
further in(|uiry by this committee relative to a certain part of big
business' connection with Nazi propaganda.
And I shall close with this closing remark, that if Lieutenant
Colonel Byoir ever represented Hitler in this country ho is guilty of
un-American activity.
Mr. Casey. Mr. Patman, just one word. When you said there
was a subcommittee here at which you were not heard they also did
not hear Mr. Byoir either.
Mr. Patman. I do not consider that analogous. Do you want to
justify your position?
Mr. Casey. I want this tor the record. Mr. Byoir was not heard,
you were not heard, but your charges were heard. We have no feeling
in thf matter. We made a finding. And we do not want any infer-
ence from any statements which you make that there was a hearing
at which only one side was heard.
Mr. Patman. I did not make that statement so that it would convey
the impression that only one side was heard, and I do not w^ant it to
appear for one minute that I did intend to imply that. I certainly did
not mean to make that impression.
But 2 weeks before, or 1 week before this announcement came out
from the Dies committee that he was exonerated
The Chairman. Did the announcement come out that they exon-
erated him?
Mr. Patman. Yes, clearly; 100 percent, without any doubt.
The Chairman. As I understand the position of these gentlemen
it is from 1935 up to the present time, and they w^ere dealing with
that period, and not undertaking to contradict the findmgs of the
McCormack committee.
Mr. Patman. Wliy should you not deal with that, when it was not
known that he was a lieutenant colonel at that time? In other
words, subsequent information connected with that should be con-
sidered to my mind.
The Chairman. I am not going into that question. The point I
am making is that if a committee of this Congress, having jurisdiction
of certain subject matter, hears evidence and renders a finding, and
another committee, shortly thereafter, comes along, certainly that
committee could not take the same testimony heard before and from
a committee standpoint reverse its opinion, without new evidence.
Mr. Patman. There is new evidence in this. But certainly in
view of the fact that knowledge about Lieutenant Colonel Byoir at
that time would produce an entirely dift'eront light on this 2 weeks
before this came out about the exoneration should amount to some-
thing, and I went to Mr. Dempsey on the floor, and I told him —
I will quote it as near as I can; I do not like to quote people, because
sometimes there is a difference of opinion, but I will do it in this
case, because I feel it is justified and absolutely necessary.
I said, "Mr. Dempsey, I am going to Texas tonight because my
primary is in 2 weeks. Will you need me during that time? If you
8210 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
do, of course I will make arrangements to stay over. If you do not
I am going to Texas for 2 weeks."
He said, "Why, certainlv; nothing will be done during that time
at all."
I went on to Texas. I was there a week. And in the meantime
headlines came out in the papers leaving the impression that I had
filed charges which were wholly unfounded against Lt. Col. Carl
Byoir, and he was by the Dies committee exonerated completely of
any blame whatever.
I came back and asked Mr. Dempsey about it, and I said I wanted
to be heard. He said, "Pat, this is too big for politics." I said,
"Of course; politics are not hooked up in this either. It is just a fair
trial for a colleague," because I wanted an opportunity to refute the
dispute. And I am not questioning the sincerity of any member of
this committee, as I presume you are all honest, but I realize when you
make a finding you want to support your finding — and I do not blame
you for it, as I would be in the same position were I in your place,
but at the same time I am under a handicap in this matter, as you see.
Mr. Mason. May I say this; that I have listened to all of the testi-
mony today, and I have not received one scintilla of new evidence
which we did not go over in carefully going over the Congressional
Record as to the charges made on the floor, and in carefully going over
the report of our investigator, and in carefully going over the report of
the McCormack committee, as well as the investigation of the F. B. I.,
and I have not received one iota of any evidence to substantiate the
charges made.
Mr. Patman. I think the gentleman will admit that there is a
difference in talkmg to someone who has not prejudged a case and one
who has. Naturally you would lean that way. I am sure I would.
I think there has been additional evidence, and I think it is very
clear and positive and to the point.
Are there any other questions?
The Chairman. I do not hear any.
Mr. Patman. Thank you very much for the hearing.
The Chairman. In accordance with the custom of the committee,
Mr. Byoir has a right to confer with counsel m the course of his
testimony.
Mr. McMahon. Thank you.
The Chairman. I will therefore ask both of you gentlemen to be
seated at the witness desk.
Counsel has no right to ask questions of the witness, but he can
confer with the witness, and the witness has a right to make any
necessary explanation in connection with his statements.
TESTIMONY OF LT. COI. CARL BYOIR, UNITED STATES ARMY
RESERVE
(The witness was accompanied by his attorney, Brien McMahon.)
(The witness was sworn by the chairman.)
The Chairman. What is your name?
Colonel Byoir. Carl Byoir.
The Chairman. Where do you live?
Colonel Byoir. New York City.
The Chairman. How long have you lived m New York City?
Colonel Byoir. Thirty years.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8211
The Chairman. Where were you born?
Colonel Byoir. Des Moines, Iowa.
The Chairman. Wliat profession or occupation are you engaged in?
Colonel Byoir. I am a public relations counsel.
The Chairman. How long have you been in that business?
Colonel Byoir. About 10 years.
The Chairman. What was your occupation prior to that time?
Colonel Byoir. I was a manufacturer.
The Chairman. Where?
Colonel Byoir. In New York.
The Chairman. A'Nliat did you manufacture?
Colonel Byoir. Toilet preparations.
The Chairman. How long have you been engaged in that occupa-
tion?
Colonel Byoir. Oh, for about 9 years.
The Chairman, ^^^lat was your business prior to that?
Colonel Byoir. I w^as in the magazine and newspaper business.
The Chairman. In the magazine and newspaper business?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. How long were you in that business?
Colonel Byoir. Back to the time I was 12 years old.
The Chairman. Mr. Byoir; are you a member of, or have you ever
been a member of the German- American Bund?
Colonel Byoir. No.
The Chairman. Are you a member of, or have you ever been a
member of the German- American Alliance?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Are you a member of, or have you ever been a
member of the Teutonic Society?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Have you ever been, or are 3^ou a member of any
organization which advocates, believes in, or preaches nazi-ism or
fascism?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Are you, or have you ever been connected with the
Communist Party?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Or of any organization under the control of the
Communist Party?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you believe in the principles of the Communist
Party?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you believe in the principles of fascism?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you believe in the principles of communism?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you believe in the principles of nazi-ism?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. You have heard the charges and statements which
have been made by the previous witness, have you not?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You have been in attendance all of the time he
testified?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
8212 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The Chairman. It has been the custom of the committee to ask
ciuestions of the witnesses, and that has been a custom that we have
seklom deviated from. In view of the fact that the previous witness
was permitted to make a statement without questions by the com-
mittee, I think, in fairness to you, you may do so, but you should
confine yourself to the charges made; that is, your answers should be
a denial or affirmance of any statement made by the previous witness.
Colonel Bygir. I should like to address myself, Mr. Chairman,
first of all
The Chairman (interposing). Speak as distinctly as you can, and
as loud as you can.
Colonel Bygir. Yes. I would like to address myself first of all to
the last statement made by Mr. Fatman, to the eft'ect that he had been
handicapped and had had no opportunity to be heard. It seems to me
the statement is a little defensive. Mr. Patman has said here that he
is not actuated by any malice, that he has no personal feeling in this
matter, but that just as a patriotic citizen he thinks that Lieutenant
Colonel Byoir ought to be exposed.
I do not think that that statement sincerely gives this committee the
exact ground upon which these charges grew^ out. In the first place,
Mr. Patman said that he never made statements that he could not
prove. Mr. Patman started oft' b}^ saying that he was going to prove
that Carl Byoir was a propagandist and had been in the employ of the
German Government.
Now, gentlemen, I M'ould like to call your attention to the fact that
that is in itself an admission b}'^ Mr. Patman that he makes statements
that he would not even try to prove. When Mr. Patman first made
his charge on the floor of the House, he did not say that 5 or 6 years ago
Carl Byoir was a propagandist employed by the German railroads, or
the German consul or the German Government. He said, and I quote
him from memory because it is burnt into my memory, "I have no
doubt that Carl Byoir was bought to try to set up the greatest spy
system in the world and w^as engaged in the effort to infiltrate spies in
this country's big business."
There is quite a dift'erence between a publicity agent and a spy, and
Mr. Patman has made a good deal of complaint after the hasty action
of this committee.
I want to tell you that in the present state of the public opinion
in the United States and the background of the present scene, when
you say a man is a spy or the head of the greatest spy system in the
history of the world, that man does not live in comfort during 40 or 50
days that Mr. Patman regards as too hasty for an investigation by a
committee of Congress.
It may be surprising to Mr. Patman that there are those who love
me; those are those who are associated with me in business, who
believe in me. How does Mr. Patman think that those people think
and feel? How does he thuik they feel when he is too busy in a
political campaign to present his evidence to this committee? How
does he think that the 200 or 300 people associated with me today
feel when thej get letters from home saying, "Are you associated with
the great mass spy? Is that the business in which you are engaged?"
How does he think that the family of the accused feels? And I do
not want to draw any tears, gentlemen, but I do not believe there
were 2 days that went by that the telephone did not ring and questions
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8213
were asked that caused the tears of tlie gh'l sitting tliere answering
that telephone. I want to show that there was not a day went by
that we did not get letters saying, "We are going to blow you up." I
won't say anybody was frightened, but it was not very nice, in days
when we were threatened with being blown up.
Mr. Patman has thought it was too hasty. Mr. Patman has had
now more than 90 days and he has not said a word now today that
was not available to these people when he concluded his speech on the
lloor of the House on the 27th day of May.
Let us look at his patriotic motives and his bona fides. He said on
May 27 that he had discovered the greatest spy system in the history
of the world. What does a patriotic citizen do under these conditions,
whether he is a private citizen or a Member of Congress? He goes
to the Department of Justice or to the Federal Bureau of Investigation
and says "Tliere is some information for you; here is some evidence for
you." He does not get up on the floor of the House in the character
of a Congressman, if he is only motivated by patriotic feelings and
nothing personal. He only last week complained on the floor of the
House that you had not given him an opportunity to be heard during
those 50 days. Why didn't Mr. Patman tell the Members of the
House; why didn't he admit that he had had opportunity to be heard;
that the Federal Bureau of Investigation investigators had called on
him; that he had every opportunity to give them all of the evidence
that he had and that the file of that evidence was available to this
committee?
Then, I am sorry to say that I cannot believe the Representative
when he says that he has no personal feelmg in this matter. The
fact is that there is a rather long history of personal conflicts between
Wright Patman and Carl Byoir.
Up until Ma}' 27, when Mr. Patman made these charges, I can
assure you that on my part there was nothing personal in that con-
flict. Air. Patman was a Representative in the Congress of the United
States, advocating certain legislation, and for several years has been
engaged in serving the people for cash payments through making
speeches to them
(At tliis pomt the chairman sounded liis gavel.)
Mr. Mason. That refers to the charges that have been made and
to the assertions that have been made here, and we do want to get
both sides.
The Chairman. That is true. His testimony, as I said before,
ought to be in opposition to what Mr. Patman testified.
Mr. Mason. But you gave tliis witness permission to give evidence
as a foundation for the evideiice that he had. Tliis is a general state-
ment.
The Chairman. Very well.
Ml-. Casey. I got this feeling. I was very much impressed with
Mr. Batman's statement that he was acting as an American citizen
and a Member of Congress, and that he had no feeling. I think that
if this gentl(>man can show a motive for this, he should be given the
opportunity to do it.
The Chairman. Then go ahead.
Colonel Byoir. I repeat then, that Mr. Patman either felt that
Carl B}oir was standing in the way of his making $10,000 or $15,000
a year outside of his salaiy as a Congressman, or he was terrorized by
Carl Byoir for fear that he might reveal sometliing that he knew Mr.
3214 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Byoir knew which might reflect upon the conduct of Congressman
Patman.
I can say now, gentlemen, that if Mr. Patman was terrorized, it was
needless, because when the contest over his legislation — the record is
there before the committee of this same House — that at no time did
I ever hit Mr. Patman below the belt. We introduced more than 180
witnesses, and all confined themselves to the merits or demerits of the
legislation which he sponsored.
The Chairman. Regardless of the merits or demerits of the legisla-
tion, the Chairman does not think Mr. Patman would make those
charges through dishonorable or corrupt motives or through strong
personal reasons or beliefs. I still believe that you should confine
yourself to statements of fact.
Colonel Byoir. Don't you think the malice of the accuser is
pertinent here?
The Chairman. Neither you nor Mr. Patman can establish facts
by opinions. What we are primarily concerned with, is Mr. Byoir
engaged in dishonorable practice?
Mr. Mason. Let me interject this. You are a lawyer and I am
not, but I understand that in all trials, in criminal trials particularly,
a motive behind the case is always pertinent, and I think from what
I gather that it is the motive that the witness is trying to develop in
this matter, and I consider that pertinent.
The Chairman. Just a moment. I want to confer with my
associates.
Mr. Mason. I make the motion, if it is necessary, that we listen
to the development of facts which would show a notive for the attacks
upon Carl Byoir.
The Chairman. All in favor say "aye."
Mr. Casey. Aye.
The Chairman. The chairman does not agree with that. The
Chair has the opinion that if you permit a witness to undertake to
explore the field of motives, that you are going far afield in that
connection.
Mr. Mason. I want him to present facts which, upon the basis
of those facts, might show a motive.
The Chairman. There is a vast difference between a statement
of fact and the deducing of a wrong from those facts.
Mr. Mason. That is true.
The Chairman. I admit that while we did accord Mr. Patman
wide latitude, we have other Members of Congress who appear before
the committee. Nevertheless, I think that when he attacks a Member
of Congress on liis record, it is going far afield. It is his opinion, but
he may proceed.
Mr. Mason. We should listen to this witness to state facts upon
which interpretations can be made by the committee.
The Chairman. All right. Let us proceed, gentlemen.
Colonel Byoir. Mr. Chairman, it is admitted that I am in the
publicity business. It is admitted that in 1934 and 1933 we had a
contract with the German Federal Railway. It is a little bit different
for somebody to try to get the American people to interpret the
motives and happenings in that scene in the light of what goes on today.
It is a first principle in any legal matter, I think, that when you
have the best record you do not take the second best record. The
best record of what was done under that contract is the record of
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8215
the McCormack coininittee. The McCorniack committee heard all
the witnesses. They could decide whether a man's testimony was
credible or not. They saw all of the material, and they arrived at
the conclusion.
The thing- that I dislike most about this unpleasant business is
that when Air. Patman made his charges on the floor of the House,
he then knew that they were false, because within a few days before
he had gone to the subcommittee of the McCormack committee,
and the subcommittee had asked liim, "Is there anything in this
record discreditable to Mr. Byoir?" And the chairman of the sub-
committee, who certaiidy could not be accused of nazi-ism leanings,
said to Imn:
After we saw all the material and heard all the evidence, I made a rejiort on
the floor of the House in which I commended Mr. Byoir for his American attitude,
his patriotism, and the way he had handled the whole matter.
Mr. Patman knew that. He knew it was a publicity contract with
the German Federal Railroads, and he also knew then and knows
now that there was no scintilla of evidence to warrant any of the
espionage charges that he had made.
Mr. Patman went further. He went to the War Department and
he made inquiries. He said "Didn't some plans disappear from here
once or twice that have been reported reached Germany?" And
they said "Yes, that is the report," and he said, "Colonel Byoir is in
the Reserves." There are only 120,000 of us, the balance have
disappeared. "Mr. Byoir must be the thief."
I think that is just as able a non sequitur as it would be possible
to find. I might just as well say that there was a murder committed
in Texas last year and Mr. Patman was in Texas at the time of the
murder, therefore he must be the murderer, or at least there should
be an investigation.
Gentlem.en, I think m.y record as an American citizen is a very
good record. I served this country during the war, and no call has
ever been m.ade upon m.e by the Governm.ent of the United States of
Am.crica to which I have not fully responded.
Mr. Mason. In what capacity did you serve during the World
War?
Colonel Byoir. I was associate chairm.an of the United States
Governm.ent Committee on Public Inform.ation all through the
World War. I was the diplom.atic representative sent by President
Wilson personally to the new countries created out of the Treaty of
Versailles, after the war, and I have been for m.ore than 9 years a
lieutenant colonel in the United States Ai'm.y Reserve.
I am a little sensitive on that last, Mr. Mason, because Mr. Patman
sat here and said Mr. Byoir did not work up to that. He was just
kind of appohited to it.
A m.an docs take a good deal of pride in being a lieutenant colonel
in the United States Arm.y, and he wants som.ebody to think that he
earned it. As a matter of fac*^, in the first registration of selective
service we were 3,000,000 m.en short of the number of men who should
have registered, and the provost m.arshal called on the public com-
m.ittee for help in the second selective-service draft, and we were able
to evolve plans which assisted the Governm.ent to get the full num-
ber. We picked up the 3,000,000 m.en and got an almost complete
registration in the second draft.
8216 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Therefore, the Army might have had reason to believe that Carl
Byoir, having been through that experience, had some special quali-
fications to be a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Reserve,
and it is a position for wliich j^ou are not paid, it is a position to which
you devote a good deal of time in working out these plans or assisting
in working them out for no other than patriotic reasons.
Since the committee permits me, I want to return to the question of
why Mr. Patman made these charges against me.
There has been going on in this country, gentlemen, for the last 4
years a conspiracy against the American people that has taken literally
millions of dollars a day out of the wage envelopes of 40,000,000
workers, and 20,000,000 farmers.
About 1926 — I will go further back a little since you are giving me
this latitude — and say to you that about 1919, if my memory serves me
correctly, a young man by the name of Philip Musica persuaded his
father to go into the cheese importing business. Mr. Musica's cheese
importing business prospered amazingly, and very shortly thereafter
the United States Government stepped in and sent Mr. Philip Musica
to the penitentiary for defrauding the United States customhouse by
underweighing the cheese so that it would bear less tariff duty.
In that — the next was when he persuaded his father to go into the
natural-hair business, his father being an ex-barber. Natural hair
was selling for about $80 a pound, because there was a great demand
for it in those days. That business prospered, and Mr. Musica had
built up a bank credit of over half a million dollars, but one of the
banks became suspicious and examined the cases on the dock, and
found them to be full of worthless trash. So Mr. Musica was again
criminally indicted and convicted.
Some years later, about 1923, Philip Musica, swindler and convict,
turned up in Westchester County, N. Y., under the name of
Daniel F. Coster, a reputable businessman engaged in the hair-tonic
business. Hair tonic was made very largely from alcohol, and this
was in the prohibition days, and Mr. Coster's hair-tonic business
prospered amazingly, so that by 1926 Mr. Coster had made enough
money in Girard & Co., who were engaged in the hair-tonic business,
so that he was able to interest Wall Street financiers to purchase
that for a million dollars cash, the McKesson & Robbins, a 100-year-old
reputable manufacturing concern. McKesson & Robbins made
proprietary medicines and toothpaste and handled drugs, and these
had to be sold through wholesale dealers to retailers. Mr. Coster,
who was a genius, decided that if he could get control of wholesale
houses that they could push the sale of his goods, and he accordingly
purchased, for common stock in the company which he organized, 59
of the largest drug houses of the United States, and I am going to tie
this up any minute, gentlemen.
Mr. Mason. That is what I was wondering, what this has to do
with it.
Colonel Byoir. I will tell you what it has to do with it, Mr. Mason.
Mr. Coster bought these 61 drug houses, which was a chain whose
business amounted to more than 50 percent of all of the drug business
in the United States, and he found that he could not make any
money, because of the competition of department stores, chain stores,
who were operating upon a basis of 3- or 4-percent profit, so that
these companies were making very little money, and that their
business was being taken away from them by the chain stores.
rX-AMKRirAX I'ROT'ArxAXDA ACTIVITIES 8217
Mr. Coster then decided that if he could get some legislation that
he could cover up what he was doing. Mr. Coster was faking the
inventories of this company to the extent of $20,000,000. Mr. Coster,
in a single year, stole $1,300,000 from this company, but he knew that
if he could get legislation first to fix prices, and second, to make his
competitors ofTer these goods at the raised prices, and thirdly, to put
his competitor out of business, that he could make money and cover
up all ol this fraud and speculation.
I am not going to adopt Mr. Patman's tactics. Therefore, any-
body, if he did anything that Mr. Byoir ever heard of, Mr. Byoir is
equallj- guilty. Mr. Patman took $4,800 from Coster-Musica making
speeches for the stuff that Coster wanted to popularize. The checks
were made out to cash and
Mr. Mason (interposing). Of course, that does not make Mr.
Patman to be wrong?
Colonel Byoir. No. I am only saying that if I applied to Mr.
Patnxan the principle that he applied to me, I would say why were
the checks to Mr. Patman not made out to him but made out to cash?
Why was an intermediary used? Mr. Patman must be particeps
criminus in all of these crimes. Oh, no. I have not made that
charge. I have not said that Mr. Patman ought to be like his clients —
either a suicide or in the penitentiary. That is not so. But what is
so? That Mr. Patman, as a Member of the Congress, did accept em-
plo3"ment from these people and go about the country making speeches
in behalf of legislation which they had helped to put on the statute
books.
Mr. Ma.son. You are trying to draw a conclusion that that case is
a parallel case to your own. Is that the idea?
Colonel Byoir. No. I am only trying to show you, and I can
appreciate the committee's patience, I am only trying to show you
why Mr. Patman did have malice in making these charges against me,
Mr. Mason. Then come to the point. Where, in that malice, might
it be considered on a foundation of facts?
Colonel Byoir. Mr. Mason, I was employed by the Great Atlantic
& Pacific Tea Co. to oppose a piece of legislation introduced by the
Honorable Wright Patman, the Patman chain-store tax bill.
Previous to that Mr. Patman had sponsored in the House the Robin-
son-Pa tman bill. Both of these pieces of legislation were supported
by the United States Wholesale Grocers Association, McKesson &
Robbins, the National Wholesale Drug Association, and they we're
parties in interest to those bills, and they were paying Mr. Patman
what he would characterize as very large sums of money to go and
talk to them about the legislation for which they were parties in
interest.
The Chairman. You are charging him
Colonel Byoir. I am not criticizing it, Mr. Chairman. If Mr.
Patman thought it was proper for a Member of Congress to introduce
a bill to put somebody's competitors out of business and then take
money to go and make a speech to them, that is all right. That is a
matter of public record, and, if you like, I will introduce letters from
the Wholesale Grocers Association explaining the terms on which
Mr. Patman
The Chairman (interposing). You mean, while that bi'l was pend-
ing, he was making the speeches to them and receiving money?
8218 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir; and I will go further and say that Mr.
Patman admitted it on the floor of the House, and I will go further
and say that one organization, the Wholesale Hardware people —
unfortunately they had been left out, their competitors had been
left out, they were not going to put the gasoline people in it — but
Mr. Patman made a speech to them and he promised them that he
would go and take them out of the bill.
And after he got back here a Ways and Means Committee brought
up his bill, and then Mr. Patman walked into that subcoinmittee and
said, "I propose to amend my bill by taking out the gasoline stations."
Mr. Patman gave them every opportunity to use the facilities of
his office. He gave them the free use of the Government frank and
sent out letters which said, "When a man gets along as Carl Byoir
did and makes it difficult to keep on taking those fees," and Mr. Pat-
man, after the suicide of Mr. Musica — Mr. Coster — felt that it was
no longer profitable, maybe, if he w^as a greedy and felt the need of
money, he some malice against the man who brought it about.
Mr. Patman expressed a good deal of admiration here for Mr.
J. Edgar Hoover and c^uoted some of the things which he had written
in relation to propaganda. Mr. Patman did not say that Mr. J.
Edgar Hoover, as head of the Bureau of Investigation, conducted a
very thorough investigation in which we made all of our books, rec-
ords, and papers available to the Department of Justice, and all of
our employees, and that when that was over, they issued a statement
which said that the investigation disclosed no evidence whatsoever
that Carl Byoir had engaged in any un-American activities.
Mr. Mason. That is the report of the Bureau of Investigation?
Colonel Byoir. That is right.
Mr. Mason. After the investigation w^as made?
Colonel Byoir. That is right. And just the other day, when Air.
Patman was on the floor of the House on this same subject, some sev-
eral Members queried him about the course of action he proposed to
take. And he said that he had given his material to the Department
of Justice, but he concealed from the Members of the House that the
Department of Justice, after the receipt of his evidence, has had
made a complete investigation. I think that all of those things showed
a good deal of Ivnowledge.
I want to point out, too, that "propaganda" is a very large word.
If you believe any religion and you try to persuade others, whether
by word of mouth, writings, or speeches, to recognize that it is a good
religion, that is propaganda; and if you do not believe in it and you
try to persuade people that it is not a good religion, that is propaganda.
If you try to persuade people that Quebec is a lovely place to go to
to spend a vacation, that is propaganda; and if you represent another
competitive place for a vacation and try to persuade them that
Quebec is not a good place to go to, but that your place is the better
of the two, that is propaganda.
Mr. Patman is trying to make out that we are engaged in subversive
propaganda, and I repeat to the committee that here it has all of the
material and again that this committee came to us, and when they
came we furnished them v:ith all the material, and that at the end they
not only said that my conduct was not un-American but affirmatively
said that it was American, and when Mr. Patman made his first charge
on the floor of the House, he knew that that was so.
UN-AMEIIICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8219
I think I havo touched on the fact that there is something almost
fiendish in trying to interpret, in the atmosphere and excitement of
the day, actions taken long since. Air. Mason has pointed out, and I
know it is accurate, that 6 or 7 years ago all responsible departments
of this Government were trying to encourage trade and travel with the
German Government.
Mr. Pat man thinks that I ought to have been the greatest prophet
in the liistory of the world. In those days the British Government
was trying to do ever^^thing they could to assist the German Govern-
ment in thinking that their country was the greatest country in the
world, and they did it with the idea that it might avert the war which
has now come upon us. They were wrong, and everybody was wrong
except Carl Bj^oir, who should have expected the World War in 1940.
Mr. Patman says that he does not know whether tliis relationship
exists today. I only need say here
Mr. Mason (interposing). ^Miat relation?
Colonel Byoir. AA'ith the German Government. In other words, he
goes on to talk about Mr. Vierick and others who are doing certain
things, all with the implication that Carl Byoir never stopped repre-
senting the German Government, but all the bureaus have it that that
contract was canceled in 1934, in November — or 1935; so that others
might be a little confused by the careless use of tenses, as if something
done long ago were being done now.
Mr. Patman has made the statement that I have great influence
with the American press because I represent over 90 percent of the
country's national advertisers. I think the true fact is that we
probably represent about one-twentieth or one-fiftieth of 1 percent of
the Nation's national advertisers, and probably one-half of 1 percent
of the leading advertisers of the Nation. You move a period over or
j^ou add a zero, and of course that zero is nothing, the adding of a
zero is nothing, 1,400,000,000 becomes 14,000,000,000.
But I do not think that is especially germane. I want to say that
everything that Mr. Carl Byoir and his associates have ever done has
been as much under my personal direction as a personal-service busi-
ness is. There is no thought on my part to evade any responsibility
for an3'thing that has ever been made. Everything that was done in
coimection with the contract of 1933-34 was disclosed fully to both
the McCormack committee and to your investigators.
On the day before 3^our investigators came into our office in New
York, I called a meeting of all of the staff of Carl Byoir & Associates,
and incidentally on that staff there is not a single alien, everyone
being an American citizen, and with the single exception of a ghl who
came here from Ireland at the age of 11, everyone is a native-born
American citizen.
At that meeting I said to them that I appreciated that they must be
under a great strain. I said to them that they had one advantage,
that we would give these investigators the files, books, and all that,
and all that anyone in that room had to do in response to any questions
was not to think what he ought to say or not to try to think would be
the proper answer, would be to make the best effect, but just to tell
the truth. And that is the way I feel about the personnel and the
business of Carl Byoir & Associates.
Mr. Patman accused me of being the head of the greatest spy system
in the history of the world. I want to make a flat denial of that
8220 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
allegation and say that in all my life for no government have I ever
engaged in any espionage activities.
Mr. Patman made the accusation that while I was a lieutenant
colonel working on the plans of the War Department, certain plans
had disappeared, and he had reason to believe had reached Germany.
Of course I want to make the flat statement that no secret of the War
Department or anything connected with my work with the War
Department has ever been communicated to anyone w^ho was not
entitled to have that information.
Mr. Patman made the statement that Byoir had great opportunity
to infiltrate spies into all these great American businesses. I not only
want to deny that statement but to state that the investigator of this
committee communicated with my clients and ever}^ client and every
past client of Carl Byoir & Associates, and ascertained that there had
been no such infiltration of spies, but in all cases we had never recom-
mended the employment of anyone to our clients, as that is not a part
of our business.
Mr. Casey. May I address your attention specifically to Mr.
Patman 's statement that you had distributed propaganda literature?
Colonel Byoir. That is absolutely untrue.
Mr. Casey. What was your connection with Hitler Youth?
Colonel Byoir. No connection wdiatsoever.
The Chairman. Mr. Byoir, what w\as your purpose in seeking
information and employment from the Nazi government?
Colonel Byoir. Wliy, Mr. Chairman, we were in the publicity
business, and we had especially the reputation of being very able, I
think, in the tourist-trade-promotion field, particularly in the tourist
field, and there was at that time nothing in the situation as to the
German Government that would make it unpatriotic or un-American
to represent the German Federal Railroads.
The Chairman. Had you represented any other companies from
any other countries prior to or at that same time?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir; we had represented the Cuban Tourists
Association in similar work, and the city of Miami in similar work,
and we had represented the Province of Quebec. I think they came
later, but the two previous ones had been very successful, and we had
quite a reputation in the promotion of tourist trade.
The Chairman. Did you represent any foreign governments beside
the German Government?
Colonel Byoir. The Government of Cuba and the Government of
Quebec, and later on the Chinese Government.
The Chairman. You knew at that time that the German Govern-
ment was engaged in an anti-Communist program?
Colonel Byoir. At that time, Mr. Dies, that was not so patent.
In other words, a great many very sincere people in this country and
everywhere else thought that the new German Government was the
bloc that would keep communism from spreading over the rest of the
world. They now recognize that they were in error and they now
tell you so, and our Government was issuing statements that we ought
to do everything we could to promote trade with Germany.
The Chairman. What was it that they wanted you to do specifi-
cally when they employed you?
Colonel Byoir. Well, the German Federal Railroads were owned
by the German Government. They had been owned by the German
Government, I think, under the Kaiser, they had been owned by the
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8221
German Government under the Republic, and they were owned by
the German Government when Hitler came into power.
German Railroads could not do a passenger business based on
tourist traffic unless you could get the people to go to Germany, and
of course the German steamship lines were interested in getting busi-
ness across the Atlantic in order for the people to ride on the German
railroads and, Mr. Chairman, it is not a matter of opinion. You
cannot do publicity in the dark. The people who get the information
know who sends it to them, and the record is all in the files of the
committee. What was this awful propaganda? Your investigator,
Mr. Stedman, has seen it. Mr. Birmingham has seen it. Wliy, it
was a story that the Oberammergau Passion Play would be as good
as it was in the past; stories about the scenery about Heidelberg,
where the great university is located, and places for trading and
places for beautiful scenery.
The Chairman. Did you have anything for political propaganda?
Colonel Bygir. No, sir. The contract provided that we would not,
and it was carried out in good faith.
The Chairman. Were you ever called on to send out anything of a
political character?
Colonel Bygir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Did you confine yourselves to matters with regard
to the railroads?
Colonel Bygir. To those matters which would interest Americans
to go and visit Germany.
The Chairman. What matters were they?
Colonel Bygir. I could refresh my memory very easil3^ The
committee has 18 monthly bulletins which set forth all of this material.
The Chairman. I want to ask you this. I do not want to ask you
in detail, but generally speaking, you know what was in the bulletins
or pamphlets?
Colonel Bygir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What did they deal with?
Colonel Bygir. They dealt with sports events and the theater and
art and scenery and natural beauties in Germany. They dealt with
the modernization of the German railroads and with the effectiveness
of the German steamship lines for passenger service. They dealt
with good hotels; they dealt with improvements which were being
made in trade, scientific improvements with the type of goods that
were distributed at the Leipzig Fair, editorials from the American
papers praising the progress that was being made in Germany.
The Chairman. Is there anything in any of the publicity or
propaganda which you distributed under contract or under any
employment with the German Government which related, directly or
indirectly, to the Nazi government as to what it was doing, or any-
thing of that sort?
Colonel Bygir. There has been something about what they were
doing to the people of Germany in the way of improvement, because
those were the things that would affect — attract people to go there.
The Chairman. I mean of a political nature.
Colonel Bygir. Of a political nature? Absolutely no. There was
no effort to build up a great picture of Nazi govenunent or anythmg —
any picture of Nazi government.
The Chairman. Did you come into contact with the agents of
Germanv in the United States?
3222 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Colonel Byoir. The only people I came in contact with, Mr.
Chairman, were representatives of the German steamship lines, of
the German Federal Railroads, and the German consul general in
New York; and it may be unpopular at the moment, but the fact is
that they behaved themselves like other men that you know or do
business with. They were interested in what was happening to their
business and why the poeple should not go and ride on the railroads
in Germany.
The Chairman. Was there any discussion with regard to nazi-ism?
Colonel Byoir. Never.
The Chairman. Was there any conference, at any of those which
you had, with reference to political Germany?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Was your relationship with them solely on business?
Colonel Byoir. Absolutely.
The Chairman. Wliat was your relationship with Mr. Viereck?
Colonel Byoir. Mr. Vierick brought the business to Carl Byoir &
Associates, and was paid a commission for getting the business, and
was later paid a salary for working on the material. In other words,
it was felt that he was an expert, that he was familiar with all of these
matters, and could devise material and editing knowledge in going
over the material.
The Chairman. At the same time, do you know of any political-
propaganda activities that Mr. Vierick was engaged in?
Colonel Byoir. Then, no, sir.
The Chairman. Did you consult with them with regard to them?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. How long was he in your employ?
Colonel Byoir. I think — my recollection now is that it was a little
less than a year.
Mr. Mason. And that was during this time?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Had you ever terminated or indicated any inten-
tion of terminating this contract prior to the investigation of the
McCormack committee?
Colonel Byoir. Mr. Chairman, the contract was practically a new
contract when the McCormack investigation into these matters
began.
The Chairman. Not when it began, but I mean, so far as you are
concerned?
Colonel Byoir. At that time, Mr. Chairman, that— there was
nothing that anyone, any patriotic American, would have considered
improper in the work that we were doing. Later on, it became evi-
dent gradually what the German Government was and what their
intentions were, and what their plans were. Of course, nobody would
have any pride in having an association with that Government at any
time, but at that time there was nothing that anyone would consider
improper in such an association.
The Chairman. Did you terminate your relations with the Nazi
government at the time of the McCormack investigation?
Colonel Byoir. No; it was after that.
The Chairman. How long afterward, would you say?
Colonel Byoir. I think probably 4 or 5 months, Mr. Chairman.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8223
The Chairman. You continued under the contract for a period of
about 5 months after the hearing with respect to your relationship
to the German Government?
Colonel Bygir. That is riglit.
The Chairman. Have you, since the termination of that contract,
had any relationship, directly or indirectly, express or implied, with
the German Government, or with any agency of the German Govern-
ment, or with any representatives of the German Government, of any
nature or description?
Colonel Bygir. Absolutely not, Mr. Chairman, direct or indirect,
or of any description.
The Chairman. Have you represented, or have you been connected
with, the German-American Bund or any organization which believes
in nazi-ism?
Colonel Bygir. No, sir.
The Chairman. In any capacity?
Colonel By'gir. In no capacity.
The Chairman. Wliat was your reason for terminating it? Was it
because of the situation which arose?
Colonel Bygir. I think it was the realization that the continuing
unfolding of the plans of the German Government would be something
that we would not want to be associated with, and, cjuite frankly,
I think I postponed the cancellation a little further than I think I
ought to have canceled it, but I think it was reasonably prompt, and
I think that during all of the time that we did the work there was
nothing done that any patriotic American citizen would have raised
any objection to.
The Chairman. Did you ever learn, or have any reason to think,
that any representative of the German railroads, or the German
Tourist Co., or other agencies of the German Government, used them
for political propaganda purposes or for espionage or sabotage?
Colonel By'gir. There was not the slightest evidence of anything of
that sort, and, frankly, I should be surprised if they were.
The Chairman. Did any information come to you of any nature
that at any time it would cause you to suspect the true purposes and
nature of these organizations used by Germany in the United States?
Colonel Bygir. Mr. Chairman, I believed then and I believe now
that the purpose for which we were employed was honestly stated by
them in the contract itself; that as far as this group was concerned,
and as far as we were concerned, there was nothing intended but the
improvement of trade and travel between the United States and Ger-
many. I said to you, and I repeat — it may not be a favorable thing
to say under the present atmosphere — that these men acted just like
other men that I had met before, that people in the German Railroad
office were interested in getting people to travel on their railroads, and
that is as far as they were interested in, so far as any conversation
they held with me was concerned.
The Chair.man. Was another government, or any other govern-
ment, engaged in the same or similar work as that for \vhich you were
engaged for the German Government?
Colonel Bygir. I cannot tell you exactly at that moment, but it has
been increasingly the policy of resorts, municipal. State, and National,
to employ both advertising agents aufl pul)licity agents, to promote
those resorts. There is notliing unusual about that. There was not
anything unusual about it then. I think you will find that long before
62626— 41— vol. 14 5
8224 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
this period many govornments had employed both advertising agents
and pubhcists to pubhcize and advertise the tom'ist advantages of their
coimtries — Switzerhmd, Egypt, Ireland, Czechoslovakia, Cuba, and
Canada — and m this country it has grown up in the last few years so
that many States are doing it.
The Chairman. Did you receive any part of your compensation^
either directly or indirectly, in the form of cash?
Colonel Bygir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What is your explanation or reason for receivmg
cash in payment from the German Government?
Colonel Bygir. The explanation at that time was, and perhaps I
should have regarded it with some doubt, but I tell you that I did
not
The Chairman (interposing) . What was the information they gave
Colonel Bygir. Yes; that is the information, that the bureau did
not have funds for that purpose; that the consul general did, and he
was making them available. As a matter of fact, not being in a
suspicious atmosphere, but what was in a normal business transaction
for us, we did not regard the German consul general, who, in the case
of all governments, is expected to handle commercial matters, as
being engaged in anything else than in the promotion of commercial
business.
The Chairman. You think that the payment in cash is a normal
busmess transaction, especially in dealings with foreign governments?
Colonel Bygir. I only say to you that I did not think it was
abnormal at that time, when the bureau did not have cash available.
The Chairman. That is the information they gave you? Was a
receipt given you for the cash paid you?
Colonel Bygir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Were all the subsequent payments in cash?
Colonel Bygir. I think the subsequent payments were paid by
check. I thmk the first month or two they may have been by cash.
The Chairman. You have followed, have you not, to some extent
at least, the career of Adolf Hitler?
Colonel Bygir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You knew, at least to some extent, what his Nazi
Party stood for, did you?
Colonel Bygir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you are familiar with the entire anti-Semitic
nature?
Colonel Bygir. At that time they denied it and took the position
that these outbreaks were sporadic and popular and they made re-
peated declarations, and I think in some cases to other governments,
and they made an effort to put a stop to it. Of course, we know now
that the tongue was in the cheek, and I say to you now that I would
not have hesitated at any point, and it would have been smart business
for them if any anti-Semitic program was in hopes of building the
American tourist trade, because it was a barrier which they could not
overcome.
Mr. Casey. You mean the German trade, the German tourist
trade, was something that they should have taken into consideration?
Colonel Bygir. I think in the beginning it did, but as soon as the
anti-Semitic feeling became apparent — Mr. McMahon says it did
not break out until 1935. I do not know whether it was that late.
UN-AMEIIICAX PHOl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8225
but I Iviiow during that piM'iod the Govei'iinicut was disavowing anti-
Si'initic actions.
Tho Chairman. Have you ever read Mein Kampt?
Colonel BvoiK. Xo, sir; I have not.
The Chairman. You arc not familiar with the statements, especially
with reference to propaganda?
Colonel Byoir. Very recently we are all very acutely aware of it..
The Chairman. At that time were you?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. Is it or is it not a fact that Mr. Hitler officially
ordered your discharge because he found out that you liad Jewish
blood in your veins?
Colonel Byoir. Of course, it is not a fact.
The Chairman. It is not true?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir. Mr. Hitler nor anyone else ever ordered
my discharge.
The Chairman. You have points there to which you wish to reply?"
Colonel Byoir. One other point was made. It is incidental, but
it is along the line of many of these charges, that while I had this
contract propaganda was being shipped in by bales, and some of it
w^as seized in the port of New York, and it was nothing but trash.
That may be true, but it had no remote connection; that is. nothing-
that we had was ever seized anywhere.
Mr. Casey. Were any of these charges as to receiving this propa-
ganda litei'ature made directly to you?
Colonel Byoir. One of our men was there. He collected the ma-
terial. He wrote most of it himself, and he sent it to us. He did
not send it in printed form. He simply signed stories that a feature
wTiter would wTite. He went to Heidelberg, and he wrote a very
long story about Heidelberg University, and he went to Oberam-
mergau and WTote a long story about the Oberammergau Passion
Play, but none of that came over in printed form. It was simply
sent over to be used or not used as we thought fit.
Air. Patman, very early in his remarks today, referring to the
Department of Justice, said that the only thing that they were looking
for was whether there had been any resignation. Of course, Mr.
Patman knows that that was untrue, that the Department of Justice
and the Federal Bureau of Investigation were investigating the whole
matter, and that the}' must have received from him anything he had
to give them or any evidence that he had to offer, and that they were
not solely concerned with the matter of whether a fpreign agent had
registered, because, if Mr. Patman's charge was tnu\ I was a spy and
my organization was a nest of spies, which would be illegal, whether
you were registered or not.
The Chairman. Hov\' did j'our business with the German Gov^ern-
ment com])are with your other business in the United States?
Colonel Byoir. Mr. Patman has along that line referi-ed to these-
tremendous sums paid in advertising and i)ublicity: $6,000 a month
is not regarded as a tremendous sum. In publicity accounts T think
it is not a large account, and there is absolutely nothing unusual in.
relation to that amount of money.
Mr. Mason. The ciuiestion the chairman wanted to get at is: What
portion would you sav that is of vour total business?
8226 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Colonel Byoir. If you take the nature of it, it was — it would
probably would have been a fifth or sixth or a seventh of our business.
The Chairman. During that period?
Colonel Byoir. During that period; yes, sir.
The Chairman. In other words, your compensation from Germany
would not exceed 7 percent of the net income or receipts of your total
revenue from all sources?
Colonel Byoir. No. I said a sixth or seventh of the total business.
The Chairman. A sixth or seventh of the total business?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir. The average account, Mr. Chairman,
whether you take it on a fee basis and bill the individual expenses to
the client, or whether it is a lump sum out of which you pay expenses,
will run $5,000 or $6,000 or $7,000 a month.
The Chairman. You stated that you are a lieutenant colonel m the
Reserve?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Has there been any investigation by the War
Department of you that you know of?
Colonel Byoir. I know of none. I assume that they would get
the report of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
The Chairman. Have you ever talked with the Department or any
official of the War Department with respect to this matter?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir.
The Chairman. What is your statement with reference to nazi-ism?
Have you any sympathy for nazi-ism?
Colonel Byoir. No, sir; nor for communism, and I want to state,
in conclusion, that anything in any allegation that Mr. Batman has
made that would reflect upon my belief on the American system or my
patriotism or my loyalty to this Government is absolutely untrue, and
there is not a scintilla of evidence to support it, because there cannot be.
The Chairman. Were you in this country during the war between
the United States and Germany?
Colonel Byoir. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
The Chairman. Have you anything else to say?
Mr. Patman. I want to answer what Mr. Byoir said about me
personally.
The Chairman. Have you any questions to ask?
Mr. Patman. If I were permitted, there occurs to me perhaps a
hundred questions which I might ask Of course, if I were privileged
to ask ciuestions I know of a lot of them that I would like to ask him.
Colonel Byoir. He said I was a spy, that it was possible that I had
stolen the plans out of the War Department, and I would like to ask
him if the committee has a scintilla of evidence as to those charges.
TESTIMONY OF HON. WRIGHT PATMAN— Resumed
Mr. Patman. The statement I made appears of record, that he did
accept money from the German consul in New York and from the
Hitler government in Germany, and that his own partner testified
that it was used to send out propaganda. He has further testified
that the first book that he got out was Speaking of Hitler.
In regard to my personal conduct, I do resent the charge that I
would introduce a bill in Congress and go out and make speeches about
it. Tiiat necessitates a brief resume of mv service.
UN-AMKRICAX I'UOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8227
The inference that 1 had maUce m my heart toward Carl Byoir
because he apposed a bill of mine is too far-fetched for serious con-
sideration. Our side could have possibly had his services if we had
luul the money to have paid him. 1 did not regard his opposition
any more than I woidd regard the opposition of a lawyer in the trial
of a lawsuit. He was only one in a large number of people who op-
posed the bill. In fact, only one more than 120,000 — the number of
Reserve officers.
Colonel Byoir's statement that a member of the McCormack com-
mittee told me before I brought the charges that he, Colonel Byoir,
had been exonerated by the McCormack committee is not true.
The fact is, I talked to both Mr. McCormack, the chairman, and Mr.
Dickstein, the vice chairman, and each one told me that the record
spoke for itself; that the testimony had been very carefully taken and
could be relied upon; and that their conclusions were seriously con-
sidered and carefully drawn and represented their views. It will be
noticed that Colonel Byoir made no effort to introduce any proof on
this point other than his owai bare statement which was not true.
Colonel Byoir has left the impression, in fact stated, that I intro-
duced bills in Congress, then went out over the country making
speeches for them and received enormous sums of money therefor.
The truth is, from the time I was elected to Congress in 1928 untU
1936 all during the time I was crusading for the payment of the
adjusted-service certificates for veterans, I received no fees what-
soever for making addresses. On the other hand, I spent considerable
money of my own and went very much in debt.
In 1936, after the passage of the Robinson-Patman Act, and during
1937, I was represented by a speaker's bureau and made speeches
under customary terms and conditions.
In Febriuiry 1938 I introduced the bill to curb the greed of about
20 large interstate chain-store companies out of 7,000 chain-store com-
panies in the United States, known as the anti-chain-store bill, and
irom that date to this, I have not accepted one penny profit directly
or indirectly from anyone for making addresses on this subject or
any other subject.
There was only one short period of time in my 12 years' service
that I was represented by a speaker's bureau and that was during the
time that I was not engaged in any crusade in 1936 and 1937.
If I had been making money out of making addresses, it would
have been in my interest to have had effective opponents to keep the
bills from passing so that I could have continued to make mone3^
Instead of Colonel Bj^oir showing a motive, his illogical argument
would show the reverse to be true.
Ninety percent of the prominent Members of the House, Senate,
and high public officials today are represented by the same speaker's
bureau that represented me. Such prominent men as William
Jennings Bryan, William Howard Taft, and Calvin Coolidge were
represented by this same speaker's bureau.
The Chairman. And many cabinet officers?
Mr. Patman. And many cabinet officers; and that is true, and so
there was nothnig wrong with me making speeches in 1936 and 1937
about a law that was already passed.
The Chairman. Which had already been passed.
Mr. Patman. Yes; and approved by the President, and every
speech I made is now available and is ready for any man to read. At
8228 UN-AMERICAN PROI'AOANDA ACTIVITIES
the conclusion of each speech I yiekled to questions and I answered
those questions and every one of them are available. Later on they
were put into a book under the name of the Robinson-Pa tman Act.
It was just guesswork, 1 am sure, but the Supreme Court and the
Federal Trade Commission have never overruled one of those answers
today that I put in that book.
So I made those speeches over a period of 2 years when I was not in
a crusade.
In his desperation to try to connect me with Coster-Musica is a
sample of the unfairness of his testimony. I never, at any time,
advocated price-fixuig legislation. You will notice that he offered no
proof that I did — only his bare statement, which is untrue.
Further, his statement that I accepted $4,800 from Coster to make
speeches is absolutely untrue. I never, at any time, accepted one
penny from Coster or the firm he represented for any purpose, or
under any circumstance or condition whatsoever, either directly or
indirectly. You will notice he submitted no proof — just his bare
statement, which is untrue.
Another sample of the weakness of his defense and the unfairness of
his testimony is his statement that I did not have gasoline stations in
the anti-chain-store bill until I made a speech to the hardware men.
He left the inference that I must have received a large fee for making
this speech and that induced me to change my mind. The truth is,
I made no speech to the hardware men and the gasoline stations have
always been in the bill shice it was first introduced. This statement
by Colonel Byoir was absolutely untrue. He offered no proof — only
his bare statement, which was imtrue.
In 1938 I got some very unfavorable publicity and I wondered how
it came about. The newspapers said, "There is a southern Congress-
man mvolved in this scandal," and next they would say "He lives in
Texas," and next they came along and said "It must be Wright
Patman, because he made some speeches one time and this concern
locally sponsored some of those speeches, so it must be him."
So it went on and I came up to Washington and I laiew I had not been
-connected in any way w^th what was wrong in making those speeches
and I went to see Mr. Brien McMahon, Assistant Attorney General
in charge of criminal prosecutions, now representmg Colonel Byoir,
also had charge of the F. B. I. I guess he has friends there now. I
do not imply any improper motives. But I went to see him and I said
"Why is it that they give this information as possibly coming from
the Department of Justice?" I said to him "I know that your
Department is the one that has been handling it, and I know there is
nothing which can involve me in any way in the world," and he told
mie about it. One man, representing a newspaper, would come in and
say to him, "Do you know that Patman has a $4,000 automobile that
McKesson gave him?" "No; I had not heard it," he would say.
Then another woidd come in and ask him the same question. And
•when he would say "Yes, but" and attempt to explain it was hearsay,
the newsman would say "that is all I want to know," and would print
it. In the same way much damaging news was obtained and printed.
I really thought he was trying to do the right thing about it, but the
newspapers had unfairly put me in an unfavorable position, and they
published it in that way.
I wrote to Frank Murphy, the Attorney General of the United
States, and said "I know I have never done anything wrong in the
UN-AMEKirvX TROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8229
matter of receiving aiitomo})ilos or making speeches, but the charges
have been madv by the Cliicago Tribune that I was carried on the
McKesson pay roll and that I received $18,000, and that 1 also got a
$4,000 autoniobik\ and I wish, Mr. Murphy, you would write me
what the facts are, what the records show, regardless of what the
facts are."
I now wish to read just what Mr. Murphy wrote me:
Hon. Wright Patman,
House of Representatives,
Washington, D. C.
My Dear Mr. Congressman: Upon my return to the city after an extended
trip, I received your letter of May 24, 1939, advising of the charges made against
you by political enemies concerning j-our alleged affiliations with the McKesson
& Robbins Co.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation of this Department is conducting an
investigation into the affairs of the McKesson & Robbins Co. at the present time.
Although this investigation is not yet complete, I can assure you that absolutely
no information has been developed indicating that you were ever carried on the
McKesson & Robbins pay roll; that you received the sum of $18,000 or any other
sum, or a $4,000 automobile or any other kind of automobile.
I trust that this information will be of some assistance to you.
Sincerely yours,
Frank Murphy,
Attorney General.
And then I asked the Honorable Robert Jackson — Mr. Murphy
said the investigation was not completed — and when I found out it had
been completed, I wrote Mr. Jackson, Attorney General of the United
States who succeeded Mr. Murphy, and said to him, "I want you to
give me the information. Is there anything in connection with the
McKesson & Robbins that I did that was wrong?" and told him the
accusations.
So he replied that:
July 23, 1940.
Hon. Wright Patman,
Room 1133, Neiv House Office Building, Washington, D. C.
My Dear Mr. Congressman: In reply to your inquiry, I take pleasure in
informing you that the investigation made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
as to the affairs of McKesson & Robbins disclosed no evidence whatever to
substantiate accusations that you had been in the employ or on the pay roll of that
corporation, nor was any evidence found which would indicate that you had any
connection whatever with the activities of that corporation, which were the subject
of the investigation.
Sincerely yours, Robert H. Jackson, Attorney General.
Mr. Mason. That in itself gives you a clean bill of health so far as
the Bureau of Investigation is concerned and their investigation,
doesn't it?
Mr. Patman. I think so.
Mr. Mason. There is no question about it?
Mr. Patman. I do not think so.
Mr. Mason. Then the report of the Bureau on this man Byoir
ought to be just as acceptable?
Mr. Patman. They had gone into this matter concerning me with
a fine-tooth comb.
Mr. Mason. And they had gone into the other with a fine-tooth
comb?
Mr. Patman. You just looked over the papers and then without
giving me a hearing at all, exonerated him.
Another thing I did not like, Mr. Byoir said — there were two things.
It was not very long after the unfavorable publicity until Mr. Mc-
Mahon became the lawyer of Mr, Byoir, and not only that, but some
8230 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
other important people went out of the Department of Justice over
to this law firm. That is very good, and they might be able to per-
suade those still in the Department to do what they considered was
the right thing to do.
Mr. Mason. And they might be willing to have them do the wrong,
thing.
Mr. Patman. First of all, you can search these records from begin-
ning to end, and you can never find that I made a speech on the floor
of the House or anywhere else with respect to advocating price fixing.
Number two, the Patman-Robinson law is generally observed.
Both sides are observing it now. And so far as the general appeal is
concerned, Mr. Byoir happened to be one of a million that is opposed
to the law, and of course he is assuming that he is the one that has
the burden of our opposition, but I do not agree with that that he is
the onh^ one.
Furthermore, if the contract was so good with Germany and there
was nothing wrong about it, why was it terminated at all? Why
didn't he keep on? $6,000 a month or $108,000 for 18 months, but
I am willing to rest on the record. If this committee believes that it
is wrong for a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army to accept
money from the German consul in New York, at that time all kinds
of bad things were happening in Germany against certain people over
there, which I greatly deplore and regret, and which everyone does;
but they were going on. He accepted the money from the German
consul in New York and from the German Government itself during
a period of months, and propaganda and other information against the
interest of this Government was sent out — if you believe that is all
right, of course that is your opinion.
But the fact is not denied. It is not disputed that wliile he was
lieutenant colonel in the United States Army he did accept money
from the German Government, and upon that a finding was later on
made that he had been guilty of German activities.
Mr. Casey. You do not believe that the termination in 1935 of
the contract has anything to do with the German Government?
Mr. Patman. I do not know. I do not think the German Govern-
ment would permit him to since that time, but I tliink I have reason
to believe
Mr. Casey. Prior to 1935?
Mr. Patman. Except that you have a letter in youi' file that he
represented the German Government in 1938.
Mr. Casey. You do not believe that?
Mr. Patman. I do not know. There was not an investigator sent
to Miami?
Mr. Casey. Yes.
Mr. Patman. I am not making any point on it. In other words,
if a man were guilty of treason 50 years ago, I would not want him
in our Army today, and if the man was guilty as a lieutenant colonel
of doing something in time of peace which would be treason in time
of war, I would not be willing to trust him at all.
The Chairman. Anytliing else?
Mr. Patman. Nothing else, Mr. Chairman.
(Witness excused.)
The Chairman. The committee stands adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 3:15 p. m., the committee adjourned, to meet at the
call of the chairman.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEKICAN PROPOGANDA ACTIV-
ITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
OCTOBER 1, 1940
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee to Investigate,
Un-American Activities,
Newark, N. J.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (acting chair-
man), presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (acting chairman), Thomas, and Voorhis.
Also present: Dr. J. B. Matthews, Director of Research, Robert E.
Stripling, chief investigator and Robert B. Barker, investigator.
Mr^ Starnes. The chairman of the subcommittee, composed of
Mr. Voorhis, Mr. Thomas, and the chairman, wishes to announce at
this time for the benefit of the press and others that the subcommittee
appointed by the chairman of the committee to conduct the hearing
in this area has been in executive session since 10 o'clock this morning.
We shall continue in executive session until 1 o'clock this afternoon.
At that time we plan to hold public hearings.
There is no further announcement to make at this time.
(Thereupon the committee went into executive session.)
after executive session
Mr. Starnes. The committee will come to order.
The committee is holding this public hearing upon the instructions
of the chairman of the full committee to investigate alleged un-Ameri-
can and subversive activities in this area.
I think all of us appreciate these are imusual times if not perilous
times. It is time for sound and sane thinking. It is no time for
hysteria; no time for the arousing of emotions and passions.
We hope to conduct these hearings in a calm, dispassionate manner.
The committee is seeking facts and facts only concerning un-American
and subversive activities.
It may be necessary in the course of these hearings for the com-
mittee to go into executive session again because the committee is
going to make every possible effort to safeguard the character and the
reputation of all American citizens and all other people whose names
may be involved in the conduct of this investigation.
It may be necessary for the time being to withhold the publication
of certain exhibits, petitions and names for the purpose of protecting
the character and the welfare of the parties interested. If this is
necessary the chairman will not hesitate to close the open hearings
and go into executive session at any stage of the proceedings.
8231
8232 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
That is for the benefit of the public and the gentlemen of the press
so you will understand our proceedings.
Mr. Barker, who will be your first witness?
Mr. Barker. Mr. Appleby.
TESTIMONY OF WALTER M. APPLEBY, SECRETARY, SUN SHIP-^
YARD EMPLOYEES ASSOCIATION
(The witness was duly sworn by Mr. Starnes.)
Mr. Starnes. Be seated and give us your full name,
Mr. Appleby, Walter M. Appleby.
Mr. Starnes. And give us your address.
Mr. Appleby. Media, Pa.
Mr. Starnes. Will you state your profession or avocation?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; marine chemist.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you been engaged in that vocation?
Mr. Appleby. About 3 years.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat is your educational background?
Mr. Appleby. High school, 2 years of college, and home courses —
home study.
Mr. Starnes. How long have been engaged in that business or
profession?
Mr. Appleby. In this particular profession?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; and prior to that.
Mr. Appleby. I have been connected with the shipbuilding
industry for 6 years. Prior to that I was a transport pilot, since 1921.
Mr. Starnes. All right, Dr. Matthews, will you take over the
witness?
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Appleby, where are you employed at the pres-
ent time?
Mr. Appleby. Sun Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Chester, Pa.
Mr. Matthews. How long have you been employed at the Sun
Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co.?
Mr. Appleby. Six years.
Mr. Matthews. In what capacity are you employed there?
Mr. Appleby. Marine chemist.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any special relationship to the em-
ployees of that plant?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; I am secretary of the Sun Shipbuilding
Employees Association.
Mr. Matthews. That is the union which has bargaining rights
for the employees of the Sun Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co.?
Mr. Appleby. That is an independent union.
Mr. Matthews. That is the union which has bargaining rights
with the company?
Mr. Appleby. It is an independent union which has had the bar-
gaining rights for all of the employees for the last 4 years.
Mr. Matthews. How many members are there in that union?
Mr. Appleby. Five thousand tliree hundred paid up out of approx-
imately six thousand.
Mr. Matthews. In your position as an official of this union, have
you had occasion to learn of the activities of Communists or of Nazis,
or of Communist-minded or Nazi-minded employees in the plant?
Mr. Appleby. I have.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 823S
Mr. Matthews. Will yoii please describe biiefly liow yon have
come into possession of such information?
Mr. Appleby. Yes. I don't know just where to start. Suppose I
<:(^ back about 2 years when it came to my knowledg-e that there were
conuuunistic activities not only in the shipyard itself but in the ini-
metliate vicinity of the shipyard.
The locality of the shipyard is such that there are mnnerous dwell-
ings within one or two squares of it.
1 found out through vaiious members and information that came
to me
Mr. Matthews. Through various members of what?
Mr. Appleby. Of the Sun Shipbuilding Employees Association, the
independent union, that there were numerous boarding houses within
a few squares of the shipyard and that those boarding houses were run
by Communists ; that they took in shipyard workers particularly, both
for room and board and that one house in particular was the home of
a Mrs. Soifer — I believe the first name is Anna.
Mr. Matthews. How do you spell that name?
Mr. Appleby. S-o-i-f-e-r. Although it had no particidar bearing
on our organization I decided that it was my business to look into
it and a few of the bo5''s who were willing to give their time, spend
their money to go out nights and investigate matters.
"\Mien we got into the affair we foimd out that Mrs. Scifer not only
ran a boarding house but she was the head of the Communist Party
of Delaware County; however, she is not the front. A man by the
name of John Weaver was the front for Mrs. Soifer. He lived in her
home; kept his Communist propaganda in the home, and that pi'opa-
ganda was given or sold to shipyard workers and to pupils of John
Weaver, who was a W. P. A. teacher.
K they had the money they bought it ; if they di(hi"t have the money
it was given to them.
Further investigation disclosed that Mrs. Soifer had two sons work-
ing in the shipyard. As we got into it it became more interesting and
more involved.
1 might sa}" at the time 1 did not know whether this connnittee was
functioning or not but it seemed as though there was no one we could
turn to to take this over and investigate it, so we continued in our
own way.
In the course of events 1 found that one of the boys, who at one
time had been a friend of mine many years ago, was in the shipyard,
and although he happened to be a member of an opposing union, a
C. L O. union, he got into these Communist activities himself through,
the union.
He found out in that organization was Mrs. Soifer's son and many
other names of which we have here and which we will place in the
record as evidence.
I convinced him that for the good of the coinitry and everyone in
general it would be a good idea if he entered the Communist Party of
Delaware County, dig in, become a worker and we would gather this
data and present it to the proper authorities when we saw fit.
Mr. Matthews. You said a moment ago he got into Communist
activities through his union work. You mean that he came in tou(b
Avith Conmiunist activities and iciirned about them?
8234 UX-AMERICAX I'R0PAr4ANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Appleby. Through the Industrial Union of Marine Shipbuild-
ing Workers of America, Local No. 2, C. I. O. affiliated in Chester, Pa.
Mr. Matthews. You advised him to get into the circle of com-
munism?
Mr. Appleby. It was my thought that if he became friendly with
Mrs. Soifer, whom we found out was the head but not the fiont, that
we could learn more of their activities and find out just how many
Communists there were working in the shipyard.
Mr. Matthews. Tes.
Mr. Appleby. We ^\ ere fairly successful in that endeavor.
Mr. Matthews. What year was that?
Mr. Appleby. I would say that was — wel), I really got into this in
about 1938, the early part of 1938. Prior to that I had heard certain
rumors and different things told, but mv interest was really not in it
until 1938.
Mr. Matthews. All right, proceed.
Mr. Appleby. So with the thought in mind that the best way to
attack this situation was to have one good and trusted man in their
organization for that purpose. The man I speak of, who was an old
friend and I found out he was working in the shipyard and had
worked there before I worked there but had been at sea during which
time he made contact with the N. M. U. and the various sailors
aboard ship. He knew their language and he decided that he would
do that for me without remuneration.
Mr. Matthews. What was his name?
Mr. Appleby. Joseph Nilon. He is present here now and will be a
witness.
Mr. Matthews. You say that he had been active in the N. M. U. —
the National Maritime Union?
Mr. Appleby. He was aboard ships that the N. M. U. at that time
were trying to organize. He, however, was not a member of the
N. M. U.
Mr. Matthews. Don't you mean or do you mean the predecessor
union to the National Maritime Union?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; I mean the organization that they called
the
Mr. Matthews. Marine Workers Industrial Union?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; Marine Workers Industrial Committee, or
something like that.
Mr. Matthews. Marine Workers Industrial Union?
Mr. Appleby. Tes, sir; that was, incidentally, the successor of the
I. S. U., which was sabotaged by Curran on the Pacific Coast — the
Communists on the Pacific coast. After they sabotaged the I. S. U.
it became this N. M. U. eventually. That is the organization I am
speaking of.
Mr. Matthews. Now, what did Mr. Nilon get in the way of infor-
mation after you advised him to get closer to the activities of the
Communist Party for the purpose of securing information?
Mr. Appleby. He found by attending the pi-ivate meetings in Mrs.
Soifer's home that the majority of the men who attended those
meetings were workers in the shipyard. Those meetings were gen-
erally held at night during the week. There weie more or less open
meetings, however, held every Sunday morning about 10 o'clock in
the office of the Liberal Press run by Milne. He is the editor and
publisher of that paper.
V.N-AMEHICAX PKOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8235
Mr. Matthews. What is Milne's first name?
Mr. Appleby. I have it riglit here.
Mr. Matthews. Is it Stanley?
Mr. Appleby. Stanley Milne, that is right. Throu^i^h those
contacts naturally lie found that there were a lot of hoys that attended
those meetings that were members, or rather workers in the shipyard.
He also became on very close terms with John Weaver, who was the
W. P. A. teacher and the front for the party.
John Weaver allegedly wrote their propaganda and handed it out
on the streets hi the vichiit}' of the shipyard along with other followers
of their organization.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever personally seen Weaver distribute
Communist literature on the streets?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; many times. And I have presented to Mr.
Barker, your in\estigator, about three pieces of that material, signed
b}' the Communist Party of Delaware County with the post-office box
in Chester, which was distributed by John ^Veaver and others of the
party.
\It. Starnes. Let the witness identify those if you have them.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a mimeographed sheet entitled: "Atten-
tion! Sun Ship Workers." At the bottom of that sheet appears:
"Communist Party, Delaware County, Pennsylvania, Box 712,
Chester, Penn.sylvania.'' Can you identify this as one of the pieces
of literature which you turned over to Mr. Barker?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; this was handed to me by one ol their work-
ers on the street, the street right in front of the shipyard. It is the
only entrance to the shipyard.
Mr. Matthews. And you in turn gave this to Mr. Barker?
Mr. x\ppleby. I placed that in my file and wdien Mr. Barker was
interested I gave it to liim a few months ago.
Mr. Matthews. I show you another mimeographed sheet with the
caption: "Attention! Sun Ship Workers," and signed by the Com-
munist Party of Delaware County, Box 712, Chester, Pa. Can you
identify that as one of the papers distributed by the Communist
Party?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; as a matter of fact this date 1 have up there,
4-14-39, is my handwriting. That is the day it was given out, on the
morning of 4-14-39.
Mr. Matthews. This was given out in the vicinity of the Sun
Shipyard, was it?
Mr. Appleby. Within a half square of the gate.
Mr. Matthews. By wiiom?
Mr. Appleby. By John Weaver. He was also present but the ones
who handed them out were usually different parties — whomever he
could get at tlie time, but he himself was always there.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask the fiist one of these mimeo-
graphed sheets be marked "Exliibit 1" to Mr. Api)ieby's testimony.
Mr. Starnes. It will be so nuirked and made a i)art of the record.
(The document referred to was marked "Appleby Exhibit Xo. 1.")
Mr. Matthews. And ] ask that the second mimeographed paper
identified by Mr. Appleby be marked as Exliibit No. 2.
Mr. Starxes. It may be so marked.
(The docinnent referred to was marked "Appleby Hxhibit No. 2.")
8236 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIP^S
Mr. Matthews. I show you a third mimeographed sheet with the
caption: "This isn't our war, remember 1917." At the bottom of the
page appears the words: "Read tlie Daily Worker," and "Communist
Party of DeLaware County, Chester, Post Office Box 741." Can you
identify that as one of these pieces of Communist Hterature distributed
in the vicinity of the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; that was handed out within the hist 6 months
or 8 months.
Mr. Matthews. Is that your handwriting at the top of the page?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. "Distributed at the Sun Shipyard in May 1940."
Mr. Chairman, I ask that be marked "Exhibit 8" and received in
^evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It may be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Appleby Exhibit No. 3.")
Mr. M.atthews. You testified that Mr. Weaver is the person who
participated in the distribution of this literature?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; he distributes all this literature, he makes
soap-box speeches in the vicinity of the yard and runs the Sunday
meetings.
Mr. Matthews. Is he still employed on W. P. A.?
Mr. Appleby. I understand that he was dropped a few months ago
under pressure, although he had been on for something like 4 or 5 years
prior to that.
Mr. Matthews. And he was one of the persons, according to your
information, who frequented the home of Mrs. Soifer?
Mr. Appleby. He was a boarder in Mrs. Soifer's home.
Mr. Matthews. He boarded at Mrs. Soifer's home?
Mr. Appleby. He does now and did then.
Mr. Matthews. Did he attend the meetings which you described
as Communist nu'ctings held in the evenings in Mrs. Soifer's home?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything else about the commu-
nistic activities of Mr. Weaver that you have not stated?
Mr. Appleby. Weaver himself boasts that he pulled the first strike
in the history of the country as far as the W. P. A. was concerned,
which was back in the early days of the W. P. A. At that time he was
a timekeeper. This was Weaver's own story. I am quoting not
what he said to me but what he said to Nilon.
Later he was arrested at the Philco strike, which was some years
ago — I guess 4 years ago. It was quite a big strike and although he
was not an employee of the Philco plant, he was arrested for his violent
activities with the strikers.
The next time he showed up in the papers was the Ford strike in
Chester. He was still working for the W. P. A. and not an employee
of the Ford Co. He was arrested again and his picture appears in the
paper.
I should go back a little bit. During the strike of December 11,
1936, at the Sun Shipl)uilding & Dry Dock Co., that day is known as
"bloody Friday," because two men went to the hospital. During
that violence John Weaver served at the soup kitchen for the strikers
although he was not an employee of the Sun Shipbuilding Co. nor was
he a member of the C. I. O., and with the soup they served they served
the kind of propaganda you have in your hand.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIF^S 8237
Mr. Matthews. Now, you moiitioncd Mrs. Soifer and Mr. Weaver
as niombeis of the Coiiiniuuist Party wlio were working in the vicinity
of the Sun Shipyard. Did you learn the identity of any other Com-
munist Party h^ichn's who were domg simihir work in the vicinity of
the shipyanl?
Mr. Appleby. Not leaders in the vicinity of the shipyard; no.
Some of the Soifer family are leaders in the party and with the excep-
tion of Mrs. Soifer's nej)hew
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a Dr. Herman Gold?
Mr. Appleby. I don't know the man personally but I laiow of him.
Dr. Herman Gold is an open Communist — I mean an admitted Com-
munist. The last advices I had on him he was in charge of the Rus-
sian or Communist Insurance Co. which operates in America.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Mrs. Sonya Gillman?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; I don't know the lady personally but the
Gillmans are related to the Soifers. They are blood relatives.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether Mrs. Gillman was a mem-
ber of the Communist Party or not?
Mr. Appleby'. I could not say that she was a dues-paying member
of the Communist Party; I don't know, but her activities were
communistic.
Mr. Matthews. You mean to say she participated m the activities
along with John Weaver and Mrs. Soifer?
Mr. Appleby. Gillman was in the Soifer home on several occasions
when the usual closed meetings were being held.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a brother of Mrs. Sonya Gillman
by the name of Israel Gillman?
Mr. Appleby". Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was he active in these Communist Party affairs
in Chester?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr, Matthews. Do you know whether or not he had any connec-
tion with the W. P. A. Theater Project?
Mr. Appleby'. Yes, sir; he was a part of the W. P. A. Theater
Project and took a leading part.
Mr. Matthews. You have mentioned the children of Mrs. Soifer.
What were their names?
Mr. Appleby'. I don't remember them all. There is an Abe and a
few others. As a matter of fact I haven't gone over that data.
Mr. Matthews. Was there a Harry Soifer?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was he active in the Communist Party affairs?
Mr. Appleby. Every one.
Mr. Matthews. In Chester?
Mr. Appleby. Every one of the Soifer boys were active in Com-
munist affairs in Chester.
Mr. MxVTTHEWs. Including Abe also?
Mr. Appleby. Including the son that happens to be in Mexico at
the present time.
Mr. Matthews. The address of the Soifers was 416 East Fourth
Street, Chester, Pa. ; is that right?
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And that is where the meetings were held that
Mr. Nilon attended?
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
8238 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a Steve Lewicki?
Mr. Appleby. Steve Lewicki; yes, sir. He works in the shipyard.
He is a welder. He has been there 4 or 5 years. He is still there at
the present time. He is one of the trustees of the C I. O. Local No.
2 in Chester.
Mr. Matthews. Did you learn that he also attended the meetings,
of the Communists m the home of Mrs. Soifer?
Mr. Appleby. Lie was a regular attendant at the Sunday meetings
and the Milne office and he has been a close friend of the Soifer boys
for years and has been in and out of their house like one of the children.
Mr. Matthews. And it is your information that he is still employed
at the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. He is, sir. I do know that definitely.
Mr. Matthews. Have you seen the Communist Party's nominating
petitions circulated in the State of Pennsylvania and particularly in
Delaware County for the placing of Communist candidates on the'
ballot in Pennsylvania?
Mr. Appleby. I had made available to me the petitions relating to
those in the Chester district for a district job.
Mr. Matthews. Did you make a check of the names that appeared
on the Communist Party's nominating petitions against employees
in the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Did you find that persons employed in the Sun
Shipyard appeared on the Communists Party's nominating petitions?'
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. How many such persons did you find employed at
the Sun Shipyard whose names appeared on the Communist Party's
nominating petitions?
Mr. Appleby. I have a list here of 37. It is rather rough but I will
be glad to put it in the record if you care to have it — 37 from the list
of those on the petitions who were employed at that date in the yards,
some of whom now have left the service.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, what is your pleasure?
Mr. Thomas. I think we should have the date of that.
Mr. Matthews. What was the date that you made the check?
Mr. Appleby. I made the check within a few days after I received
the copy of the petition. I don't have the petition here and I can't
very well give you the date.
Mr. Matthews. Was it this year?
Mr. Appleby. Oh, yes; it was within the last 3 months. I would
say it was just about 3 months ago and no longer.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, what is your pleasure with refer-
ence to this particular list of names?
Mr. Starnes. I suggest those names be marked as an exhibit and
made a part of the record.
Mr. Thomas. As I understand this contains 37 names of persons
employed in the Sun Shipyard whose names appeared on the Com-
munist Party petitions?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; and that particular petition was John
Weaver's own petition. He was running for a job as county engineer
or some such job, which appeared on the petition. The majority of
the names were gotten by himself and the balance were gotten by some
lady^ — I have forgotten her name.
UN-AMKRICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8239
Mr. VooRHis. Was his name indicated as a Communist Party
candidate?
Mr. Appleby. He was a candidate on the Communist Party ticket
for county engineer or some such job.
Mr. Matthews. Did his name also appear at the bottom of the
petition as the circuhitor of the petition?
Mr. Appleby. His name appeared at the section where the name is
signed to the effect he obtained the signatures and the lady who con-
tinued on with the petition, her name appeared after that.
Mr. AIatthews. These names are found on 2 sheets of typewriter
paper, 37 in number, and I offer them in evidence.
Air. Starnes. They may be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Appleby Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Appleby, I show you again one of these
mimeographed sheets which has been introduced as an exhibit, which
starts out with this question:
Why did Aggie Campbell spread Nazi propaganda in the shipyard and why
did he stop all of a sudden ?
Do you know Aggie Campbell, mentioned in this sheet?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; I know him very well.
Mr. Matthews. Did Aggie Campbell at one time engage in the
dissemination of Nazi propaganda in the shipyard, according to your
information ? •
Mr. Appleby. He did.
Mr. Matthews. Is his first name Agnew?
]Mr. Appleby. His full name is Louis Agnew Campbell.
Mr. Matthews. L-o-u-i-s?
Mr. Appleby. I believe it is spelled that way.
Mr. Matthews. A-g-n-e-w?
Mr. Appleby. Right.
Mr. Matthews. How do you know that he has disseminated Nazi
propaganda at the shipyard?
Air. Appleby. I saw him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether he was associated at that
time with any organization?
Mr. Appleby. He was a member of the Anti-Communist Society
that held their meetings in the vicinity of Walnut Street in Philadel-
phia.
Air. AIatthews. Was that known as the Anti-Communist
Air. Appleby. Anti-Commimist Society of America I believe was
its full name.
Air. Matthews. Do you know anything about the propaganda of
that organization?
Air. Appleby. To a certain extent.
Air. AIatthews. The nature of it?
Air. Appleby. To a certain degree; yes. I attended about three
meetings believing it was an anti-Communist society and the first
speakers that we heard sounded as though they were out for the pur-
pose which we thought they were.
However, they worked in other speakers and they became very
much pro-Nazi in their discussions and as you left the hall they had
on tables piled up, stacks of anti-Semitic propaganda — the usual stuff"
with the pictures of the Jews and movie actresses all done more or
62626— 41— vol. 14 6
8240 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
less to make them look bizarre; and it was such data as that that
Campbell brought into the yard and disseminated.
After that that material was sent directly to him by express from
I believe, Washington, and was received by him in the shipyard.
Mr. Matthews. Did you satisfy yourself by your attendance at
these meetings of the Anti-Communist Society in Philadelphia that
the organization was a pro-Nazi organization?
Mr. Appleby. Definitely.
Mr. Matthews. All the earmarks of the propaganda seemed to
indicate it was that?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And you have no doubt that Louis Agnew Camp-
bell was at the time you speak of, engaged in the dissemination of
Nazi propaganda on behalf of this organization?
Mr. Appleby. He became a very active member for them.
Mr. Matthews. Now, do you know about Mr. Campbell's affilia-
tions or associations at the present time?
Mr, Appleby. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Before you answer that question which I just
asked you, Mr. Appleby, I show you a mimeographed sheet of paper
entitled: "Attention Workers, Philadelphia Police Exposes Anti-
Communist League as Blind for the Nazi Bund."
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And this is signed by tlie Communist Party of
Delaware County?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever seen that sheet?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; and this is my writing. It was distributed as
given here at 7:45 a. m., March 30, 1939.
Mr. Matthews. March 30, 1939?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; at times I marked those just as a matter
of record.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, at that time the Communist
Party definitely charged that the Anti-Communist League was a
blind for the Nazi Bund?
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. The German-American Bund?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. And the allegation here is that the Philadelphia
police had exposed the Anti-Communist League as such an organi-
zation. That is the purport of this document, is it not?
Mr. Appleby. That is right. I don't know the extent of their
exposition but they did intervene in several cases, I believe, where
there was some disturbance — a little violence or something that
occurred.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask that be marked "Exhibit 5,"
and made a part of the I'ecord.
Mr. Starnes. It may be marked "Exhibit 5" and received in
evidence.
(The document referred to was marked "Appleby Exhibit No. 5.")
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Appleby, returning to the question I
asked you: Do you know anything about Mr. Campbell's present
affiliations or activities?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; about December 1939 Campbell and those
who were supporting him in his, should we say Nazi activities and the
UN-AMKUTCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §241
distributiiiii ol" litorature throuijhoiit tlio yard and out on tlio stroot —
pro-Nazi {)ropagan(la, joined hands with the Coniinunist Party in the
Dehaware County district.
Air. Matthews. You mean that tlie niembers of the Anti-Com-
munist Leaiiue joined with the C^ommunists in some kind of a joint
program?
Mr. Appleby. I mean that John Weaver, Steve Lewicki, the Soifer
boys and the others joined hands with Campbell and his group in
about De( embei' of 1939 and as a residt of that union of the two fac-
tions and ('oml)iiuitions, they reopened local No. 2, which had died a
natui'al (hnitli, and that group is now running local No. 2 of the
1. U. M. S. W. A., a C. I. O. affiliate.
Mr. VooRHis. Just one question. What do you mean when you
say Weaver and these other people joined Campbell's group? Wliat
do you mean exactly by that?
Mr. Appleby. I mean that they sit in at the same meetings, are of
one thought. The only propaganda that is on the streets now in this
locality is the Liberal Press and that sheet carries the activities of the
group which were out for one purpose.
Mr. VooRHis. What do you mean by ''Campbell's group"? What
was "Campbell's group" exactly that they joined?
Mr. Appleby. Campbell naturally had a following in the yard and
T have here a list of that following.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean that they joined the group in the yard of
which Campbell was the leader, is that it?
Mr. Appleby. Would you repeat that, please?
Mr. VooRHis. You mean they joined a group of people in the ship-
yard of which Campbell was the leader, is that what you mean?
Mr. Appleby. Tiiat is true. I mean that those who had previously
been the enemies became friends.
Mr. Matthews. As I understand the record, Mr. Voorhis, Camp-
bell had a following working with him when he was disseminating
Nazi propaganda, a following employed in the shipyard.
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And on the other hand. Weaver and Soifer had a
Communist following, employed in the shipyard and that on or about
December 1939 these two groups, the Nazi group under the leadership
of Campbell and the Communist group under the leadership of
Weaver, joined forces?
Mr. Appleby. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And are at present working in concert rather than
in opposition to each other. Is that the correct testimony, Mr.
Appleby?
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
Mr. Voorhis. What I was trying to get at, is Campbell still the
leader of the group as a whole?
Mr. Appleby. You bring up the point so I think it is relevant.
There was an election last Saturday in that group. Campbell was
elected secretary of that organization, Steve Lewicki, who had been
the nearest or the closest friend to the Communist John Weaver, is
a trustee. He was elected trustee of that organization. That
happened last Saturday afternoon.
Xlr. Thomas. In other words the Connnunists and the Nazis are
represented among the officers of the organization?
8242 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now, have you, Mr. Appleby, in your investiga-
tion of communism in your district, in your observation of the Com-
munists and Nazis, noted that at least on the question of their
attitude toward the foreign relations of this country are in substantial
agreement at the present time?
Mr. Appleby. They are in agreement.
Mr. Matthews. You have observed from their literature and their
speeches that that is the fact?
Mr. Appleby. The Liberal Press published by Stanley Milne is not
an organ for any particular organization. It is simply a liberal
paper, so-called — very liberal.
Air. Matthews. "So-called"?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; and Milne had always condemned the
Campbell faction and had always given, you might say, the Com-
munist faction the break until this change took place in December,
roughly December 1939. The I. U. M. S. W. A. have their own
organ, the official organ called the Shipyard Worker.
It carried its own articles. Tiie two papers are now distributed
one inserted in the other and are handed out by this group that has
merged which we have been talking about — the two papers, the Ship-
yard Worker, the official organ for the I. U. M. S. W. A. and the
Liberal Press published by Stanley jVIilne of Chester.
Mr. Matthews. You menn whoever distributes them distributes
them together?
Mr. Appleby. They are put together and distributed together. In
addition to that, notices such as sheets like this, notice or notices of
meetings are also inserted. In other words, you receive three pieces
of literature — the Shipyard Worker and the Liberal Press and often
notices on paper this size [indicating], inserted in with the papers and
they are given out as a unit by the combined groups.
The distributors change, naturally, from week to week, depending
on whoever is available to hand them out.
Mr. Matthews. You have referred to a list which I hold in my
hand, as a list of the followers of Mr. Campbell — persons who were
employed in the Sun Shipyard. This is entitled: "List No. 2." It
appears to contain about 21 names.
Mr. Chairman, would you like to receive this list in evidence?
Mr. Starnes. What is the significance of that list? I want to
know that first.
Mr. Appleby. No particular significance except that this group
as a whole presented the pro-Nazi group. This group now as a
whole, with perhaps a few exceptions, has joined hands with the
Communist Party.
Mr. Thomas. Are the names of those people on that list?
Mr. Starnes. But the group listed there was originally a pro-Nazi
group?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Are they employees of the Sun Shipbuilding Co.,
many of them?
Mr. Appleby. May I glance at that a moment. I believe they are.
I would just like to check it first. Yes, sir; as a matter of fact, their
occupations are given on the side — abbreviated. There is the word
"weld" which means they are all welders, which is the key department
in the Sun Shipbuilding Co,
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8243
Mr. Starnes. There is no objection to that being received in
evidence and it will be made a part of the record.
(The list referred to was marked "Appleby Exhibit No. 6.")
Air. Matthews. For the record, Mr. Appleby, can you outline
bri(>flv the txpo of manufactiu-ing that takes place in the Sun Ship-
yard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; at the present time 60 percent of our con-
struction is for the United States Maritime Commission.
I overlooked one point. I stated earlier today that we had done
some Nav3' work but very little of it. That w^as on a ship within the
last montii that we had built and the Navy Department bought
from the Maritime Commission. We finished certain additional
construction for the Navy Department before they took it from the
yard. However, I overlooked one larger job. I believe that naval
work has special significance at this time.
We built and delivered the first twin-screw high-speed tanker, a
practically all-welded ship called the Cimmeron, to the Navy Depart-
ment. That was delivered about a year ago and that is on the
Pacific coast now. It is the pride of the fleet. It is the first high-
speed tanker built in this country.
And when I speak of "high speed," I mean a tanker with 6,000,000
gallons of fuel that can do maybe 21 or 22 knots. So we have been
engaged in naval work for sometime although the majority of our
Avork at this time is for the Maritime Commission.
The balance is made up of tankers for private owners. We also
do repair work. We do Navy repair work in dredges and Army
engineer's vessels — on their dredges and also private work.
Mr. Matthews. Have cases of sabotage come to your attention,
sabotage in the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; the first case of sabotage that came to my
personal attention was about, I would say, 4 months ago. It was the
case of a large reel of 2-inch diameter 8-conductor conduit — that is
armored cable. It has a woven basket weave of metal on the outside.
It Avas on board the deck of one of the ships under construction.
The cable was being unreeled for the purpose of wiring the ship.
They use this cable and draw it through, hundreds and hundreds of
feet of the cable is drawn through the ship. After it is in place it is
so covered up and protected that it is difficult to get to it.
In other words, if there is a short circuit or anything else happened
to it. it would be verj" difficult to locate the trouble. This was a new
reel that they were unreeling. After they had about 12 or 15 feet
unraveled one of the workmen caught his finger on a sharp object and
thev examined it closelv and it turned out to be a nail driven straight
through the cable with the head flush with the basket weave which
made it difficult to see, but it just happened that it was just about a
sixteenth of an inch too long and it caught his finger.
Mr. Matthews. Would that cause a short circuit?
Mr. Appleby. Within that conduit are eight conductors and in
driving a nail through it it would be impossible to go through without
hitting three or four which would short circuit those wires.
Mr. Matthews. Would that create a hazard of fire?
Mr. Appleby. It would definitely create a hazard, either a fire or
burn up the vital pieces of machinery that would be connected to that
cable, inasmuch as most of the ships today, their auxiliaries, are elec-
tricallv driven and not steam.
8244 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Or at least necessitate a great deal of work in
finding the short circuit?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That would be the least that could be expected
as a result of driving a nail through that cable?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Is there any doubt about that being a piece of
sabotage? I mean to say, could that have been an accident?
Mr. Appleby. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Just a question there. Did the company itself con-
sider it a piece of sabotage?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not this occurrence was
reported to the F. B. I.?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; it happened in this way: One of our men—
and when I saA" "one of our men" I mean one of our members, who
reported to me — he did not laiow what else to do. I immediately
reported to an official of the company and they turned it over to the
F. B. I. Wliat they have done, I don't know.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask how long ago that was?
Mr. Appleby. About 4 months ago, sir.
Now, the next act of sabotage
Mr. Matthews. I want to ask you one more question. Is that
cable a very expensive material?
Mr. Appleby. It runs about $8 a foot.
Mr. Matthews. It is, in other words, relatively expensive material?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; it is very fine cable.
Mr. Matthews. And would the necessity of taking it out to find
a short circuit damage the cable?
Mr. Appleby. Oh, yes; yes, indeed.
Mr. Matthews. All right, will you please give any other instances,
if any such have come to your attention, of sabotage in the Sun
Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. About 2 months ago one of the Atlantic Eefining
Co. tankers, one of the large new, all-welded jobs — in fact the largest
in the United States — was in our yard for repairs. There were no
particular repairs on the engine. vShe was in for the customary paint
job which they get about every 6 months. After being in a few days
when they started the engine to leave the yard they could not get
oil pressure and the engine heated up. And it had to be stopped.
Investigation disclosed after 2 days of pulling the oil lines apart
that there were numerous pieces, I would say, 8 10. or 12 pieces of
sweater all cut about the same size but rough, in the lubricating oil
system. The lubricating oil system on a ship that size carries a
tank, reserve tank of several himdred drums of lubricating oil. This
was an enclosed system and the only way you could possibly enter
any foreign matter into the system would be by removing a steel
plate about this large, with eight bolts holding it down. That
material was deposited in that tank between the time the ship came
into our yard until it was ready to leave.
Mr. Matthews. When you say "pieces of sweater" is that a
technical term?
Mr. Appleby. I mean a piece of clothing.
Mr. Matthews. You mean an ordinary sweater, a piece of clothing?
UN-AMEHICAN I'KOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8245
Mr. Appleby. Yos, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And they were cut in squares and deposited, this
forei<2:n material, in these drums?
Mr. Appleby. That is right, in the tank and into the oil which
went through all the oil lines to the engine and naturally stopped all
circulation of the lubricating oil to the moving parts of the engine.
Mr. AIatthews. You testify that it is impossible for the material
to have come in through any of the pipelines?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; because it is a closed system. It is not
like the case of a Diesel engine where you have a large crankcase.
This is a turbine job where there is no opening whatsoever.
Mr. Mattheavs. Was this case which you concluded to be a case
of sabotage, also presented to the proper authorities and if so to whom?
Mr. Appleby. The authorities were well familiar with the case
because as soon as the pressure was not present, natm'ally our engi-
neering department was called in. AVe built the ship and naturally
we are familiar with the system and where to look for trouble.
The company is quite familiar with the case.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not it was turned over
to the Federal authorities for investigation?
Mr. Appleby. I presume so but I could not say.
Mr. ^Iattheavs. You do say positively that this act of sabotage
occurred after tliis tanker had come into the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; she could not possibly have run into the
yard in that condition. She had just come from her regular trip,
which is usually Texas, with a load of crude oil for tlie refinery.
Mr. Matthews. Now, has any other case of sabotage come to
your attention?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; 2 weeks ago or within a period of 2 weeks I
would say, of five working days, we had 63 hoses cut. The hoses that
I speak of are about a half uich outside diameter and they run thou-
sands and thousands of feet of this hose all over the plant, all through
the new ships, repair work, drydocks and so forth.
These hoses cany oxygen, protane, and acetylene gas, a combina-
tion of which, of course, is ver}' explosive and very inflammable.
Those hoses were cut at quite an angle — I would say maybe a 20°
angle, with what appeared to be a safety razor blade or some kind of a
very sharp instrument. It cut into the last segment or fiber, not com-
pletely severed in two but just at the breaking point. The manner
in which it was cut with a sharp instrument at a sharp angle relative
to the piece of hose itself, made it almost impossible to see it unless you
picked the hose up and bent it at which time the piece would fly up.
As I sa}" 63 of those were found m 1 week. That was just 2 weeks ago.
Mr. Matthews. Sixty-three gashes?
Mr. Appleby. Sixty-three gashes. Naturally when they found a
few they put inspectors on and they went over everv foot of hose,
bending it to fmd the cut places and cut those sections out.
Mr. Matthews. Were these gashes found throughout the plant?
Mr. Appleby. Throughout the plant, from one end of the shipway
to the other. We have a man here present today who was one of
the inspectors who was sent out to look for and found some of these
pieces of hose that were slashed.
Mr. Matthews. Is it your information that this could not have
come about accidently?
8246 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Appleby. Absolutely impossible. There is no instrument
around the shipways; there is no necessity of an instrument sharp
enough to make such a cut and I am sure you could not duplicate it
without a razor blade because it is tough hose, very tough vulcanized
hose with a fabric running through it. It was a particularly bad
case of sabotage to this extent, although nothing happened because
it was found, fortunately, before it did happen, but such a hose cut
so close to the inside core that carries the gas could fill up a ship, a
compartment or any of the tanks in these ships, or the holes and a
spark would blow the ship to pieces.
We have had cases of explosion with acetylene mixed with oxygen
or profane. It is higlily explosive. It is an exceptionally bad piece
of sabotage, and it would be disastrous to a ship where a tank was
full of that gas and exploded. We are familiar with such explosions.
We have had such a thing happen but not to that extent nor because
of sabotage.
It is particularly dangerous to life — the fire hazard — when oxygen,
for instance, without the acetylene comes out of a hose and gets into
your clothing. If a spark strikes your clothing your clothing imme-
diately goes up in flame, although oxygen itself is not inflammable,
but in combination with some material that is inflammable it goes off
like a mixture of profane or anything else. It is a very bad form of
sabotage.
Mr. Matthews. You say that was discovered in the past few days?
Mr. Appleby. About 2 weeks ago, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any other instances of sabotage?
Mr. Appleby. There have been three fires in the last month on
ships under construction. There was one fire in the tanks. We don't
know whether it was sabotage or not but we cannot account for the
fire because the nearest thing to anything that will burn are 3-inch
planks and these fires have started and we don't laiow just how.
Air. Thomas. Wliat precautions is the management of your com-
pany taking to counteract the sabotage and to eliminate the Nazi and
Communist influence?
Mr. Appleby. As to eliminating the Nazi and Communist influence,
I could not say, except to this degree, that within the last 2 months
every one of the 7,000 employees in the yard — and that includes the
office workers — the 7,000 have been fingerprinted and copies of the
fingerprints have been sent to the F. B. I. for their file in Washington.
In addition to that their guard force has been increased by perhaps
25 percent, and I am informed also, although I don't know
Mr. Thomas. Yet sabotage goes on just the same?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; I am informed by I can't state definitely that
there are F. B. I. and Naval Intelligence men in the yard.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not, Mr. Appleby, any
of these employees whose names appeared on the Communist Party
nominating petitions have left the employ of the Sun Shipyard just
prior to the fingerprinting of all the employees?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; there were perhaps a half a dozen who left prior
to the fingerprinting. However, I woukl not assume too much there
because this has become a day when men are shifting more than they
used to shift. They are giving up jobs to go to other places because
there are jobs open. It could be a coincidence.
Mr. Matthews. Yes; but you know some have left?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8247
Mr. Matthews. And do you know from information which cir-
ciihitos among- empk)yces that some of those persons whoso names
appear on the Communist Party nominating petitions, have already
obtained employment in other plants?
Air. Applehy. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In other plants that manufacture products vital
to national defense?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do j^ou know whether or not the present line of
the Communist Party
Mr. Thomas. Before you ask that question I think you ought to
ask another question in regard to where these employes have gone.
Mr. Starnes. That would be purely hearsay unless he knows of
his own knowledge.
Mr. Appleby. I do know of my own knowledge, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You do know?
Mr. Appleby. I shall only quote the ones that I do know.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Appleby. I am not here with the names of those but I can tell
you this definitely, to my knowledge, two of them are at the Westing-
house plant which is about 5 miles up the river from us, where they are
manufacturing turbines for the United States Navy. There are prob-
ably a half dozen in the last few months who left prior to the finger-
printing, but we would not say the fingerprinting had anything to
do with it.
Mr. Thomas. Was it after the fingerprinting was announced?
Mr. Appleby. I don't think it was announced. It was probably
in the talking stage but not announced.
Mr. Matthews. Let us get that clear.
Mr. Appleby. Some went to Pusey & Jones in Wilmington where
they are building United States maritime boats. There were two that
I know of that went to the New York Ship & Dry Dock at Camden,
N. J., where they are building nothing but Navy boats, battleships,
cruisers, and so forth. And the others are just here and there. I
could not say where. I know there are a few in the New York district.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know that any went to the Philadelphia
Navy Yard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir; one or two went to the Philadelphia Navy
Yard.
Air. AIatthews. Air. Appleby, you said there were 37 employees
of the Sun Shipyard whose names appeared on these Communist
Party nominating petitions. Do you know how many of the 37 are
still employed at the Sun Shipyard?
Air. Appleby. Without a check I could not say definitely but I
doubt if there are more than 25 left or 20.
Air. AIatthews. Between 20 and 25?
Air. Appleby. On the original list that I have turned in here.
Air. AIatthews. But there are still a score or so?
Mr. Appleby. Yes; there are at least 20 or 25.
Air. AIatthews. Employed?
Mr. Appleby. That is right.
Air. AIatthews. And you haven't made an absolute check as of
today?
Air. Appleby. That is right; I had no particular reason to do so.
Air. Starnes. Can you obtain that check for us?
8248 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Appleby. I could, sir.
Mr. Starnes. If you will do that and insert it in the record with
your testimony we will be glad to have it.
(The following letter was submitted by Mr. Appleby relative to
the above:)
February 22, 1941.
Dies Committee,
House Office Building, Washington, D. C.
Gentlemen: Relative to the information you desire concerning tlie writer's
testimony at Newark, Oct. 1, 1940.
Records available indicate that there are eighteen (18) employees now at Sun
Ship Co., Cliester, who were signers of the Communist petition in behalf of
John Weaver, Communist, Delaware County, Pa.
Trusting this is the information you desire, I am
Yours very truly,
[Signed] Walter M. AppLEBr,
Plymouth Hall, Media, Pa.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Appleby, I want to ask you this
final question as far as I am concerned: Are you sufficiently familiar
with the present line of the Communist Party to know whether or not
it is agitating in an extraordinary degree against all measures of
national defense?
Mr. Appleby. I am afraid I will have to give that some thought.
I couldn't say definitely on that.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not the German-
American Bund and Nazi-minded organizations are agitating against
measures for national defense?
Mr. Appleby. Not to my personal knowledge. I mean in a
practical way. I know of no such activities.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Appleby, did you know a Mr. Adolf Locker,
who worked at the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Adolf Locker was
pro-Nazi in his utterances and sympathies?
Mr. Appleby. In conversations with him he was not pro-Nazi,
only to this extent: He was sympathetic for Germany because, due to
the fact that he had fought in the German Army in the first World
War and at the present time he has four brothers fighting in Germany
in this war whom he had not heard from for about 6 months and about
whom he was quite concerned, naturally. He was sympathetic
toward the cause — he made no un-American activities, however, to me.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he was an alien or is
an alien?
Mr. Appleby. Otto told me that he was a citizen of this country
that he was naturalized. I could not prove that but he told me that.
Mr. Matthews. Did he work in the Sun Shipyard?
Mr. Appleby. He did not work directly for the yard ; he worked for
the Slater System that has the concession in the yard and runs the
restaurant for the entire yard within the yard itself.
Mr. Matthews. Did he have general supervision of the foods,
in other words, in the yard?
Mr. Appleby. He had general supervision of all the foods eaten
throughout the yard and at the time of the trial trips where the com-
pany supplies their own crew and food and so forth, Otto went along
on those trips and was in complete charge of the food.
Mr. Matthews. I am afraid I made a mistake in the name;
is it Otto Locker?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8249
Mr. Afplebv. Otto and not Adolf — no, no; I am wron^:. Otto is
another Gorman in the kitoiien.
Mr. Matthews. This is Adolf and when you said "Otto" you mean
Adolf, is that right.
Mr. Appleby. Adolf, that is right.
Mr. ^Matthews. Now, you were speaking what he did when the
ships went on trial runs. Did you conclude that?
Air. Appleby. I think suspicions were first aroused on the trial
runs when they found that Adolf was down in the engine room where
he had no business to be. His business was up, on the particular type
of ship that he would usually go on, which was more or less freighters
or tankers — the galley is right there on the sheltered deck and there is
no reason why lie would be in the engine room unless he was just look-
ing around. He had no business there. He was seen in the engine
room quite frequently and there suspicions were aroused. Further
than that I can say that he was discharged last week and although it
isn't exactly reliable information, and I got it from a fairly good source,
they found that he was an official of some German bund in the vicinity
of Chester.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not that was the German-
American Bund in the vicinity of Chester?
Mr. Appleby. I don't know that. Information could probably
come from the company.
Mr. AIatthews. Thank you.
Mr. Starnes. Can you furnish us sections of this cable that you
said was cut with some sharp instrument?
Mr. Appleby. If they haven't done something with it by this time
I could. They did keep it for a long time for examination, I guess for
various agencies.
Mr. Starnes. If it is available.
Mr. Appleby. If it is available, I could either get the section or
perhaps a photograph of it.
Mr. Starnes. All right, if you will do that for us.
Mr. Appleby'. I can also get you sections of the hose which I spoke
of which apparently was cut with a sharp instrument.
Mr. Starxes. We will be glad to have those and when the}' are
received we will then use the inspector who was inspecting the job
and can identify it. Any questions by members of the committee?
Mr. VooRHis. I want to ask one or two questions.
Mr. Appleby, you said, I believe, at the beginning of your testimony
that your union was the recognized bargaining agent for the workers
in that plant; is that correct?
Mr. Appleby". Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. How long has it been so?
Mr. Appleby. We established the right to bargain for all the hourly
workers in the Sun Shipyard on March 17, 1937, through a National
Labor Relations Board elections between ourselves and the I. U. M.
S. W. A.
We have maintained that position since.
Mr. VooRHife. One other question that is in an entirely different
direction. Do you happen to know whether this so-called Anti-
Communist Society that you have mentioned as being in Philadelphia,
do 3^ou know whether that organization was a local organization in
that region or whether it has other branches in other parts of the
8250 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
country? I mean the organization that Mr. Campbell was connected
with?
Mr. Appleby. The organization itself appeared to be local people
but those who were in back of it seemed to travel around an awful
lot and brought others hi from other sections. There was always a
new speaker from some other section.
It was difficult to know who was running the organization.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Appleby, as I understand it these ships are being
made for the Maritime Commission?
Mr. Appleby. Some of our ships.
Mr. Thomas. Well, the ships that are being made for the Maritime
Commission aren't they being made in such a way that they could be
converted into Nav}^ auxiliary vessels?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir. The fore peak deck and usually somewhere
aft about the stern, they are reinforced for gun mounts but the gun
mounts are not in place.
Mr. Thomas. One more question: What steps have the manage-
ment taken to determine what employees are citizens or rather, which
employees are citizens and which employees are aliens?
Mr. Appleby. Well, the employees that have come in there and
registered or you might say registered — yes, registered with the
employment agent in years gone by as citizens — just how they work
that I don't know unless they speak in a foreign tongue or something.
I don't laiow whether they check them or not but all new employees
coming m and for at least the last year must produce a birth certificate.
Without a birth certificate they cannot be employed.
Mr. Thomas. Of the 6,000 employees, what is your estimate of the
number of aliens?
Mr. Appleby. I would say there are only perhaps 15 in the yard
who are not citizens or taking out papers or there is one reason or
another for them not taking out citizenship papers.
We have a couple from foreign countries who are okayed by the
State Department and there are a few of foreign birth where it is
impossible for them to get their birth certificates due to the fact there
is no country where they come from and their records are not available.
If they are old employees the company is going to go along with
them until some means is found to establish their citizenship.
Mr. Thomas. So practically every employee is either a citizen or an
alien who has taken out his first papers or is about to take them out?
Mr. Appleby. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You mean in addition to all those groups there are
about 15 who are aliens?
Mr. Appleby. Fifteen who are aliens and have not taken out papers
for one reason or another, which is satisfactory to the company.
Mr. Thomas. So any sabotage that is taking place is being done
probably by persons who have already become citizens of this country?
Mr. Appleby. Undoubtedly.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. You may stand aside, Mr. Appleby.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Starnes. Call your next witness.
Mr. Barker. Joseph Stewart.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8251
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH W. STEWART, WELDING INSPECTOR, SUN
SHIPBUILDING & DRYDOCK CO.
(The witness was duly sworn by Mr. Starnes.)
Mr. Starnes. What is your name, please?
Mr. Stewart. Joseph W. Stewart.
Mr. Starnes. What is your address?
Mr. Stewart. 423 South Fifty-fifth Street, Pliiladelphia, Pa.
Mr. Starnes. What is yoiu" occupation?
Mr. Stewart. I am a welding instructor.
Mr. Starnes. Welding inspector?
Mr. Stewart. Welding instructor and inspector.
Mr. Starnes. By whom are you employed?
Mr, Stewart. Sun Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Chester, Pa,
IMr. Starnes. All right, Air. Barker.
Mr. Barker. Mr. Stewart, as part of your inspection duties did
you examine this cable which had been cut that you heard Mr.
Appleby testify about?
Mr. Stewart. I did. I can testify that I will corroborate every
statement Mr. Appleby made. In fact two sections of the hose I
found myself, going into the double bottoms, and the cable itself I
seen that the nail was driven in there. 1 inspected that myself.
Mr. Starnes. By "the double bottom" you mean the inner layer?
Mr. Stewart. That is right; the double bottom of the sliip.
Mr. Barker. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. You may stand aside.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Starnes. Who is your next witness?
Mr. Barker. Gerhard Wilhelm Kunze.
TESTIMONY OF GERHARD WILHELM KUNZE, NATIONAL LEADER
OF THE GERMAN-AMERICAN BUND
(Mr. Kunze was attended by his attorney, Wilbur V. Keegan.)
(The witness was duly sworn by Mr. Starnes.)
Mr. Starnes. This gentleman who is sitting on your right is your
counsel?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Will you give us your name for the record [addressing
comisel]?
Mr. Keegan. I will be glad to do that, Congressman. My name
is Wilbur V. Keegan, general counsel for the German-American Bund,
address, 178 East Eighty-fifth Street, New York City.
Mr. Starnes. [Addressing the witness.] Have a seat and give us
your full name, please.
Mr. Kunze. Gerhard Wilhelm Kunze.
Mr. Starnes. What is your address?
Mr. Kunze. New York City, 178 East Eighty-fifth Street, room 5.
Mr. Starnes. Where were you born, Mr. Kunze?
Mr. Kunze. In Camden, N. J.
Mr. Starnes. When?
Mr. Kunze. January 10, 1906.
Mr. Starnes. You are a citizen, therefore, of the United ^States?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What is your occupation or profession?
8252 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. I am the national leader of the German-American
Bund.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any other profession or any other
means of support — any other occupation other than being the national
leader of the bund?
Mr. KuNZE. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That is your sole means of support?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you been the national leader of the
German- American Bund?
Mr. KuNZE. Since December 5, 1939, as acting national leader, and
since September 1 of this year as national leader without the term
"acting" before it.
Mr. Starnes. You were, in other words, the acting leader from
December 5, 1939, to September 1940?
Mr. KuNZE. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And since September 1940 you were elected and have
been the national leader?
Mr. KuNZE. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. I overlooked asking you a moment ago in the pre-
liminary questions to give us your educational training and back-
ground. We usually ask for that and will you give us that information
now?
Mr. KuNZE. Public school, high school, and various night schools
in electrical and mechanical training.
Mr. Starnes. That was in New Jersey?
Mr. KuNZE. In Philadelphia, Pa.
Mr. Starnes. You have lived then in Pennsylvania or New
Jersey practically all your life?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. When did you join the German- American Bund?
Mr. Kunze. Upon its creation in 1936.
Mr. Starnes. At Buffalo, N. Y.?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Were vou among those who organized the bund
there in 1936?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Were you a member of the Friends of New Germany
prior to that time?
Mr. Kunze. I was; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Prior to the time you became a member of the Friends
of New Germany were you a member of the forerunner to it, the
Teutonic Society?
Mr. Kunze. I was not a member of any forerunner of the Friends
of New Germany.
Mr. Starnes. That was the first organization you joined?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Wlien did you join that organization?
Mr. Kunze. In September 1933.
Mr. Starnes. What was your occupation at that time?
Mr. Kunze. Chauffeur-mechanic.
Mr. Starnes. What had been your occupation until you became
the acting national leader of the bund in December 1939?
Mr. Kunze. Public luitional relations director.
Mr. Starnes. Give us your business background.
UN-AMERICAN PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8253
Mr. KuNZE. ClnuidVur-nKM'haiiir nnd eloclrician.
Mr. St.\rnes. By what companios wore you employed?
Mr. KuNZE. Caroni Dredging Contractors at Trinidad, British
West Indies, in 1922 and 1923; at the Trinidad Leaseholds, an oil
field, in 1923 and 1924. At the Philadelphia Electric Co. in 1924
and 1925. At the Quaker Auto Supply Co. 1925 and 1920, Phila-
delphia. The Southern Pacific Railroad in El Paso, Tex., in 1927.
Pickwick Stages in El Paso, Tex., in 1927. The Southland Stages
in San Diego, Calif., in 1928, or 1927 and the begiiniing of 1928.
The Textile Electric Machinery Co. of Philadelphia from 1928, in
February, I believe, until the end of 1930.
Mr. Starnes. From 1930 where were you employed?
Mr. Ki NZE. Thomas M. Royal Manufacturers at Bryn Mawr, Pa.,
in 1931, and as chaufl'eur-mechanic for several families from 1932
until 1936, I beheve.
Mr. Starnes. And from 1936?
Mr. KrxzE. Thereafter in the employ of the German-American
Bund, first in Philadelphia, until August 1937, and employed volun-
tarily in New York from November 1937 to April 1939 and on salary
in New York from April 1939 to this time.
Mr. Starnes. Can you give us the names of some of your employers
between 1932 and 1936? You gave the names of all your employers
up to that time.
Mr. KuNZE. Employers?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; some of vour employers.
Mr. KuNZE. E. L. Rothchild— at that time 2121 North Park Avenue
in Philadelpliia; a Mr. and Mrs. Paris at Elkins Park, Pa., and the
2 years from 1934 to 1936 for Mrs. E. L.— no; Mrs. Robert E. Daffron,
Jr., Newton Square.
Mr. Starnes. All right. Now, why did you join the German-
American Bund?
Mr. KuNZE. Because I am a German-American and wanted to
find an organization or help build one wliich would pay more militant
attention to protecting the good name, the rights and privileges of the
German-Americans than I had been able to find before,
Mr. Starnes. All right, any other reason?
Mr. Kunze. That was the only reason.
Mr. Starnes. The only reason?
Mr. Kunze. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You were smcere in your belief or opinion that
American citizens of German descent were not receiving proper treat-
ment or accorded fair representation in all the liberties and the rights
that other American citizens were enjoying?
Mr. Kunze. That is my belief.
Mr. Starnes. That is your belief?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Upon what was that belief based, Mr. Kunze?
Mr. Kunze. The war hysteria of the last war and the inability,
apparently, of the German element to properly fight back against
mifairness which developed because of that hysteria.
I went through the public schools during the last war and had very
many experiences which I shall never forget just because of the simple
fact that I refused to consider everytliing that was German in my
make-up or in others, to be bad and condemnable. I received enough
beatings to remind me of that for the rest of my life.
8254 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. You appreciate the fact, of course, that many of the
outstanding citizens of this country — citizens in business, finance,
industry, the various professions and in the agricultural field; the
agricultural field and all the other lines of endeavor in American life, in
all of these fields American citizens of German descent have risen to
preeminence, isn't that true?
Mr. KuNZE. That was generally true up to the last war. After the
fact that they had not at the same time learned to protect themselves
by organizing to assure their political and economic representation,
made itself felt and since that war the German-Americans, so far as
our experiences show, are more or less of a goat whenever a goat is
required.
Mr. Thomas. I did not hear that last statement.
Mr. KuNZE. The Germans, I say, are more or less of a goat when-
ever a goat is recjuired.
Mr. Starnes. You can understand, of course, that that statement
has grave implications and presents an indictment of a nature against
the American people and the American public. Can you be more
specific in that statement as to what those instances are? I will state
the question this way: Give us examples of people or specific groups
of people that you feel have infringed upon the political rights and eco-
nomic rights of American citizens of German descent.
Mr. KuNZE. Our experience has been that such organizations as
the Non-Sectarian League and Anti-Nazi League have ver}^ assidu-
ously throughout these last years preached that all those who, for
instance, are at all interested in maintaining any German cultural
traditions or are interested in building up more efficient economic and
political organizations of the German element are to be considered
as essentially alien and inclined to treason, and consequently not to
be trusted in important factories and undertakings.
Mr. Starnes. I asked for specific instances. Your statement is
very generic. Won't you give us specific instances? You have only
named one organization — what was that, the Anti-Nazi League?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. All right. Now, that is the only one that you have
mentioned and it evidently is a very small organization because in
the whole broad expanse of this country there is not a single member
of that league that I know of.
Mr. KuNZE. And the daily press.
Mr. Starnes. You mean the daily press generally?
Mr. KuNZE. Quite generally.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. KuNZE. And some such organization as the Joint Boycott
Council which afl^ects not only foreign countries and their interests
but the business interests of perfectly loyal German-American — -
German and American export and import firms.
Mr. Starnes. Now, is there a specific reason for your attitude?
Do you think that is sufficient reason, because this Anti-Nazi Non-
Sectarian League has been engaged in activities which you find ob-
jectionable to American citizens of German descent? Do you think
that is sufficient reason for the organization of the German-American
Bund in order to protect the political and economic rights of American
citizens of German descent?
Mr. KuNZE. It attempted to get legislation passed that was di-
rected particularly against the members, for instance, of the German-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8255
Anun-ican Bund, as such, altiiough that oroanization has iievpr been
shown to bo in any way trcasonabk^ or unpatriotic. In othci- words •
Mr. Starnes. You either misunderstood my question or you are
evadinp; my question. I asked you if you felt that it was necessary
to set up an organization hke the German-American Bund simply to
ofi'set the activities of this Anti-Nazi Non-Sectarian League that you
mentioned a moment ago, and that is the only organization you
mentioned.
Mr. KuNZE. I mentioned the daily press.
Mr. Starnes. All right, the daily press. Now, what steps do you
think are necessary to protect the people of German descent in this
country against the Anti-Nazi Non-Sectarian League?
Mr. KuNZE. To unify them sufficiently so that they can economi-
cally and politically exercise at least that much influence in the
Nation that they will receive exactly the same treatment that any
other part of the citizenship gets.
Mr. Starnes. That is specific. Wliat would your organization
propose to remedy the situation as to the press, which you stated had
been unfair? You made your statement applicable to the press in
general. What is yoiu- method of approach or angle of approach
toward remedying that situation?
Mr. KuNZE. I know that if the German element throughout the
Nation becomes more circumspect in how it votes and how it supports
its own kind and those who are friendly to it, then in time the powers
that control the public policy of the press and the radio will also become
more just to this particular element which is being attacked so much
today.
Mr. Starnes. But aren't you advocating there a method which
you are condemning others for the use of?
Mr. KuNZE. We are only counteracting that which is already being
used against us from many sides.
Mr. Starnes. How do you propose to treat with the press specifi-
cally? Do you propose that the press shall be controlled or that the
press shall become an agent or a tool of your organization to dissemi-
nate its viewpoint alone in order to bring about the restitution you
say is necessary for the people of German descent in this country?
Mr. KuNZE. I propose nothing of the kind. Any element of this
Nation's citizenry which takes proper care of its political and economic
representation will be respected by the daily press.
Mr. Starnes. Would you use the same methods that have been
placed in vogue elsewhere in other countries in order to control the
press of this country?
Mr. KuNZE. There is no need for that.
Mr. Starnes. I know that, but is that one of the methods that you
would advocate?
Mr. KuNZE. I would not advocate such a method.
Mr. Starnes. You would not advocate such a method?
Mr. KuNZE. No.
Mr^ Starnes. During the past year — I believe it was in August —
Mr. Kuhn told us that this country had some 68 — or there were in this
•country some 68 posts of the bund with approximately 20,000 dues-
paying members. That is a matter of public record.
How does that number compare today in the number of posts and
in the number of dues-paying members?
How many posts do you have?
62626— 41— vol. 14 7
8256 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. I am soriy, I really do not know.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have an approximation of the number?
You had 68 last year in August — August 1939. Can't you give us
some approximation? You are the leader of the organization and
have been for almost a year?
Mr. KuNZE. It is impossible to give any definite figure on that
score.
Mr. Starnes. I am asking for an approximation — an approxima-
tion that would be approximately correct.
Mr. Kunze. There will be approximately 40, I presume.
Mr. Starnes. Forty local units?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Would you give us now an approximation, and I
understand of course it would have to be an approximation, of the
membership at the present time — dues paying members.
Mr. Kunze. I couldn't give any approximation which would be
worth anything under the circumstances, because
Mr. Starnes. Well, you have shown there are approximately 40
posts at the present time as compared to 68 last year. Would it
follow that there has been a possible proportionate reduction in the
number of dues-paying members?
Air. Kunze. The reorganization in many respects, which has been
going on and is going on all this later time, has caused the income from
dues and contributions to fluctuate to such a degree I could not give
you any fair idea whatever.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Kunze, what is the purpose of the reorganiza-
tion which has been going on since you have been there?
Mr. Kunze. Well, I suppose, Mr. Chairman, that whenever any
change in leadership is made in any organization there will be changes
in many details, depending upon the nature of the new leader.
There is no need for any basic changes and none are contemplated.
Mr. Thomas. Yet you say reorganization is going on. W^ell, now,
that is not just a minor change. You must have some reason for it
or purpose.
Mr. Kunze. No ; except help improve whatever needs improving so
that the organization may operate more efficiently.
Mr. Thomas. How do you mean "more efficiently"?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. Thomas. I would just like to know the reason for bringing
about this reorganization and what the reorganization amounts to.
Mr. Kunze. There was a reorganization, for instance, in 1936,.
based upon experiences m former organizations. There have been
reorganizations in part here and there since then — whenever more
improved methods of operating were found or whenever certain
elements had found their way into the organization which we believed
did not belong in it and had to be removed.
I believe again through the experiences of these past years that
there was quite a bit which could be improved upon in every respect
and that is what we are undertaking now and what I call "reorganiza-
tion."
Mr. Thomas. In this reorganization which you are bringing about
you are trying to remove certain elements which you do not believe^
or rather, which you believe should not be in the organization?
Mr. Kunze. That is quite true.
rX-AMKUKAX rUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIKS 8257
Mr. Thomas. What do you mean — it is not clear to me why these
ehMnents shouhl not be in the organization. What kind of elements
do you mean and what are they doing?
Mr. KuNZE. Well, there is, for example, a man named Healey in
Chicago, who was never a member of this organization but who claimed
to have similar beliefs and wanted its support and its recommenda-
tions among (lerman-Americans and things of that kind. Making
sure that he and other such have nothing whatever to do with us and
are not furtheretl by us and don't by any chance get into our ranks to
find ways and means to make sure we find these people and keep them
from using the name of the organization in order to give the public or
the authorities a twisted conception of what we are actually fighting
for.
That is also a part of the reorganization.
Mr. Thomas. That is not very clear to me; but have you brought
about any reorganization here in New Jersey?
Mr. KuNZE. Not to any noticeable extent. For instance, makmg
sure that the units and the other officers of the organization throughout
the country
Mr. Thomas. But 1 am referring now to New Jersey. I have left
the rest of the country.
Mr. KuNZE. All right, sir. Referring to New Jersey — seeing to
it that the officers responsible keep the authorities informed con-
cerning what they are douig, nudve sure that these authorities have
every chance to see what is going on and to investigate it to make
sure that such speakers who have a way of speaking, which is not
compatible with the laws of the State or the laws of the land or the
principles of the organization are kept aw^ay from our speaker's stand.
Mr. Thomas. You haven't made any changes in New Jersey since
you have been in office? Has there been or hasn't there been a re-
organization in New Jersey?
Mr. KuNZE. The things I just mentioned also apply to the State of
New Jersey.
Mr. Thomas. Then when Mr. Klapprott goes on the stand he can
tell what the changes are in New Jersey?
Mr. KuNZE. He would know them more than I would.
Mr. Starnes. Have the purposes of the bund, as set forth in their
constitution of 1936, been changed since you took over the organiza-
tion?
Mr. KuNZE. The purposes of the organization as an organization
of American citizens have not been changed. The purposes and aims
outlining what this organization stands for have been revised on more
than one occasion to attract more attention to various subjects which
have been mentioned too little before.
Mr. Starnes. Last year Mr. Kubn gladly furnished us with a copy
of the constitution, which set forth the aims and pvn'poses of the
organization and he briefly summarized the purposes as follows:
First, to form a political unit or a political party to see that a minor-
ity, as he termed it, a persecuted minority, and that is in substance
what you said a moment ago, were given political representation in
our aftairs of government — in the affairs of om- Govennnent.
Is that still one of the professed aims of tlie bund?
Mr. KuNZE. If it was understood by this committee that it could
be the object of the German-American Bund to alter the system under
which our United States were built up in order to in the future to have
8258 UN-A:\rERiCAN propaganda activities
direct political representation for so-called national minorities, then
that is not the case and never has been in the German-American Bund.
We have never had the objective of having representatives in
Congress.
Mr. Starnes. I don't want to be discourteous to you but your
answers are too involved and they are not responsive, sufficiently
responsive.
Mr. Kulm testified that they had a threefold purpose in organizing
the bund in 1936. One was to establish a political party in America
which would give representation in the political life of America to a
minority which was now being denied those full rights. Secondly, it
was established for the purpose of combating the inroads of com-
munism and, third, that it was anti-Semitic. He made those state-
ments before this same committee in August of last year, August or
September, under oath.
Now, I am asking you if the general purposes of the bund as stated
by Mr. Kuhn, the founder and the leader of the bund until December
of the past year, has there been any fundamental change in the pur-
poses and objectives of the organization.
That is what 1 am asking you.
Mr. KuNZE. If that is the sense conveyed by what Mr. Kuhn
said, then so far as I am concerned it never has been the basic principle
of the German-American Bund but is his personal idea about it.
I believe
Mr. Starnes. He formed the bund, did he not?
Mr. KuNZE. He became the first national leader.
Mr. Starnes. And he was its national leader until December of
the past year?
Mr. KuNZE. So far as 1 know Mr. Kulm I don't believe he intended
to convey the impression which you just have given me, Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. Well, his language was veiy clear and very specific
and it was not capable of being misunderstood.
Mr. KuNZE. I know that since I have been responsible the purposes
and aims have been rephrased so there should be removed any room
for doubt.
Mr, Starnes. That is what I am asking you. You said a moment
ago that the reason you joined the bund yourself was for the purpose
of seeing that a minority group of American citizens should be given,
or would be given, the political rights and economic rights to which
they were entitled but which you were now being denied. That cer-
tainly is in line with what Mr. Kuhn said a year ago. Now, in what
other respe ts or what respect, if any, is there a change in the purpose
of the bund? You say that is the sole reason you joined the bund;
Mr. Kulm says that is one of the three reasons that he set up the
organization. Now, in what other respect does the present organiza-
tion differ from Mr. Kuhn's statement and conception of the bund?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. wStarnes. Does your organization, in other words, I will be
specific — I will help you — does your organization still combat com-
munism in this country and elsewhere, those who sympathize with
your viewpoint, as they did in the years gone by?
Mr. KuNZE. It combats communism and any other political inter-
nationalism in the United States.
Mr. Starnes. It does combat communism?
Mr. KuNZE. As an international political power in the United States.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8259
Mr. VooRHis. Does it oonibat nazi-isni in the same way?
Mr. KuNZf:. Any foreign-controlled, political, or economic power in
these United States.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean you are opposed to any spread of the
influence of Hitler in the United States; is that right?
Mr. KuNZE. We are opposed to the spread of the influence
Mr. Thomas. I think 3-ou should answer tlie question.
Mr. KuNZE. To the influence of Hitler as a political or economic
conception in these United States, or any other foreign political power
or international political or economic power.
Mr. VooRHis. What do you do to try to stop the spread of the
influence of Hitler in the United States, specifically?
Mr. KuNZE. We are interested in developing the respect of the
German element in the United States back to the stage at w^liich it
belongs, not with a political party of the German elem.ent but within
the entire citizenry, by helping to reconstitute or maintain the political
and economic set-up in the United States something similar to that
upon which the country was founded.
Mr. VooRHis. But you said aw^hile ago that you were opposed to
the spread of international political influence in the United States, if
1 understood you correctl}'?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. And you said you were opposed to the spread of
communism in the United States and you were opposed to the spread
of nazi-ism in the United States and I asked you what your organiza-
tion is doing to combat the spread of nazi-ism in the United States.
What is it doing?
Mr. KuNZE. I believe I expressed myself clearly in the first place
when I wanted it understood that we are just as much against the
importation of foreign political or economic systems from Germany
as we are from any other country-, but if we can learn from the expe-
riences of other countries in the economic or any other field upon the
basis of the American republican system, we are certainh' not opposed
to learning.
Mr. VoORHis. Everybody will agree to that. Why is it that through
the l)und there is all kinds of literature brouglit in here from Germany?
Mr. Starnes. We have, of course, in the files of the committee
numerous publications which were furnished us either by our investi-
gators or given to us by Mr. Kuhn himself or his agents, some of
which, of course, undeniably and undoubted!}' had their inspiration
and their source from Germany.
For instance, Mein Kampf. There is undeniable testimony under
oath that that was used widely in your camps and read by your
members.
Then we have, of course, any number of exhibits that came through
the Ausland in Stuttgart, which, of course, is financed by the German
Government, according to the testimony.
We are now asking you whereui the aims and purposes difl'er from
heretofore and the method of operation dift'ers from heretofore, because
Mr. Kuhn and othei-s who were members of the bund heretofore
gladly testified, apparently, because some came in voluntarily and
gave us this information.
Mr. KuNZE. Insofar as your third, shall I say conception, concerning-
the meaning of Mr. Kuhn's utterances last vear is conceiiied, I must
8260 UN-AMERICAN PKDI'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
also protest and say that the German-American Bund is not an
~anti-any race.
Mr. Starnes. In other words the German -American Bund is not
anti-Semitic?
Mr. KuNZE. It is not except insofar as it has to be in self-defense on
some occasions.
Mr. Starnes. And you are entirely friendly and your relations with
people of Jewish descent in this country are entirely cordial and you
work together in harmony to promote the welfare of the country;
is that right?
Mr. KuNZE. That may or may not be the case, depending on the
individual. If I may say that what has been considered the anti-
Semitism of the bund will have been its reaction to activities by people
Avho happen to be Jews.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Voorhis wishes to ask a question.
Mr. Voorhis. If the Anti-Nazi League was formed in 1937 how
could the bund have been formed to counteract it?
Mr. Kunze. I can assure you, Mr. Voorhis, that the Friends of
New Germany were formed as a reaction to the boycott activities
which came before.
Mr. Voorhis. Can you give us a single, solitary instance in the
United States of discrimination against a person because he was a
German? I do not know of anyone who does not have the greatest
respect for people of German descent. I would like to have you give
me one single instance where somebody was discriminated against
in the United States because he was a German.
Mr. Ki^NZE. There was an occasion when a list of unit leaders of
the German-American Bund was submitted to this committee. As I
understand it that list was submitted on the condition that it would
not be published. That list appeared in the daily press a day or two
later and at least two of those leaders immediately lost their jobs.
Mr. Voorhis. That is begging the question on that particular
point. I did not ask you about members of the German -American
Bund. I asked you where there was discrimination because a person
was of German descent. It is a very different matter when a racial
group organizes in militant fashion, as the bund has done.
I would really like to ask you whether you think you can accomplish
anything for the welfare of the average German, the average American
citizen of German descent, by setting him apart from his fellow Ameri-
cans in an organization of that kind? I believe that if you consider
that discrimination it is due to the very basic blunder that has been
made in the formation of the organization in the first place.
Mr. KuNZE. He is being set apart from the rest of the citizenry
not by us but by those who make it a point to do so if he has the slight-
est decency left him so far as honoring his own name is concerned.
Mr. Voorhis. Will you please give me an instance where that has
happened?
Mr. KuNZE. It is difficult for me to do so without bringing proof
because the people who have suffered themselves have not the courage
to get on the witness stand and swear to it.
Mr. Voorhis. You don't have to prove a thing, Mr. Kunze; I will
take your word for it.
Mr. KuNZE. But I know a number of instances where it happened.
Mr. Voorhis. And I want you to tell me one case where a man was
discriminated aaainst because he was a German in the United States.
UN-ami: UK AN I-KOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8261
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. VooKHis. Now, there must be thousands of such cases if that
is the basis of an organization of this kind.
Mr. KuNZE. There are.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, name one of them.
Mr. KuNZE. There is legislation before the Congress of the United
States; there are regulations applying to the P. W. A.
Mr. Starnes. And those things are all the result of the bund
movement and its allied activities?
Mr. KuNZE. They represented a discrimination against a group of
citizens which has not been proven to be in any way disloyal.
Mr. VooRHis. I want you to give me an example of discrimination
against a person because he is a German.
Mr. KuNZE. There are employment agencies in various cities with
signs on their windows w^hich say: "Germans need not apply,"
because of the artificial public opinion which has been created.
Mr. Starnes. Let me say this to you : There is no legislation which
discriminates against any American citizen who subscribes to or
follows the American principles of government.
In the administration of relief we have spent billions of dollars in
the last 7 or 8 years helping to take care of the distressed condition
and the needs and the misery of fellow human beings who are not
even American citizens and who don't even subscribe to our form of
government.
Now, give us some specific examples if you can.
Mr. KuNZE. I can't give you any names.
Mr. Starnes. You can't give us a specific name?
Mr. KuNZE. I wouldn't give any names.
Mr. Starnes. We will recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
Air. Starnes. The committee wiU resume the session.
How many posts of the bund do you have in the State of New
Jersey Sit the present time, Mr. Kunze?
Air. Kunze. We have no posts, Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. What do you call them now? Units? You know
what I am talking about, branches, posts, local units. I just want to
find the correct terminology. How many local miits do you have in
the State of New Jersey?
Mr. Kunze. I am sorry, but I couldn't say.
Mr. Starnes. How many in the State of New York?
Mr. Thomas. He is not answering the question. He says he is
sorry he couldn't say in New Jersey. He must know what he has in
New Jersey.
Mr. Starnes. How many in the State of New York?
Mr. Kunze. It would be somewhere from a half dozen on up.
Mr. Starnes. How manv in the New England area?
Mr. Kunze. There are several there.
Mr. Starnes. Would you say as many as six?
Mr. Kunze. I don't believe there are that many.
Mr. Starnes. How nuiny in the Midwest area around Chicago? I
believe that was the original division. What is in the Midwest dis-
trict or Midwest area, if I am not usmg the correct terminology you
will understand what I mean. There would be a dozen in the
Middle West?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
8262 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Now, along the Pacific Coast or the far West areaT
Mr. KuNZE. There are several there.
Mr. Starnes. Would you say as many as seven?
Mr. KuNZE. I don't believe there are quite that many.
Mr. Starnes. How many in the South?
Mr. KuNZE. Two or three, depending on how these geographical
areas are. I don't know just exactly ofi'hand just where they are
located or what their names are.
Mr. Starnes. With only 40 local units you are unable to tell the
committee the exact locations or to divide them into their geograph-
ical districts and give us approximately how many in each?
Mr. KuNZE. There are more cities and towns in which members
are resident than there are functioning units and that is the only
difficulty in determining exactly where units are located or where
there are simply several members who correspond directly with
headquarters.
Mr. Starnes. Has there been any effort since you became the act-
ing head and the head of the organization, to cooperate with groups
of citizens who have the same ideals and aspirations?
Mr. KuNZE. There have been no specific conversations or corre-
spondence with such organizations in that time.
Mr. Starnes. In other words, since 1939 then you have ceased as
an organization, and when I say ''you," I mean your organization,
you have ceased any efforts to unite with other groups who have
the same ideals and aspirations that you have or follow approximately
the same party line or the same political line?
Mr. Kunze. In eft'ect, yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. In effect that is true?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Now, you did have a meeting here in the State of
New Jersey quite recently, didn't you, with another group?
I will renew my question. Has your organization had any joint
meetings with other groups during the past 12 months, seeking to
reach an agreement with the view of working toward a common end,
or have you had meetings with other groups whose aims and aspira-
tions may follow the same political line as yours to a certain extent?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. None whatsoever?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You haven't had any meetings with the Silver Shirt
group?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Not anybody?
Mr. Kunze. If that had taken place anywhere throughout the
country in some small unit as a local affair I would not know about
it, but the German-American Bmid as such has done notliing of the
kind.
Mr. Starnes. You do not deny, however, that local units of the
Bund may have met and consorted with other groups such as the
Silver Shirt gi'oup, or the Kjiights of the Ku Klux Klan, or the Knights
of the \yhite Camellia?
Mr. Kunze. Mr. Chairman, I gave out a specific order shortly after
taking charge that there is to be no connection of any kind with any
other organization in the country.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8263
Air. Starnes. That is one of the changes of poHcy in the Bund in
the past 12 months?
Mr. KuNZE. Insofar as that may not have been clear before.
Mr. Starnes. Well, the testimony is undeniably clear before that
there had been numbers of meetings between individuals who headed
various organizations in this country in an effort to present a united
front along those lines.
Mr. KuNZE. In that event then it is a change of policy.
Mr. Starnes. You say it is a definite change?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir; may I complete the sentence?
Mr. Starnes. Was there any specific reason for inviting the Klan to
attend a joint meeting with the Bund here in the State of New Jersey?
Was there any specific reason for that? Let me ask you this ques-
tion: Is Camp Nordland the property of the German- American Bund?
Mr. KuNZE. It is not, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is it the propert}^ of an affiliate of the German-
American Bund or a local unit of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Thomas. Does the German-American Bund meet there?
Mr. Starnes. It has met there regularly for a number of years,
hasn't it?
Mr. Kunze. Not regularly.
Mr. Starnes. It has met there over a period of years?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know of any other organization that meets
there other than the German-American Bund?
Mr. Kunze. I couldn't — I don't know that definitely because I am
not directly connected.
Air. Starnes. Do you know of any other organization ever meeting
there at any time for any purpose other than the German-American
Bund?
Air. Kunze. Air. Chairman, I understand that the Ku Klux Klan
of New Jersey had an afi'air there this summer — that is, they they
were permitted by the owners of that property to use that property
for an affair of their own. It was not a joint affair with anyone else.
Air. Starnes. Were the members of the German-American Bund
present on that occasion?
Mr. Kunze. If they were there they were there as individuals and
guests.
Air. Starnes. Were you there on that occasion?
Air. Kunze. I was not, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You were not?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Air. Starnes. Do you know of any other officials of the German-
American Bund who were present on that occasion?
Air. Kunze. I could not swear to that because I don't definitely
know.
Air. Thomas. Was Klapprott there?
Mr. Kunze. He may have been there. I could not say.
Air. Thomas. You also know that the Smythe organization — I just
€an't recall the name of the organization at the present time, was
present at that same affair?
Air. Kunze. I don't know. I don't know whether they were there
on that day.
Air. Thomas. You read about the meeting?
8264 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. So far as I know it was only the Klan that was there.
Mr. Thomas. You read about it in the newspapers? You read the
Klan was there and the Smythe organization and Mr. Klapprott was
there and various other bund officials were there. You read all about
that?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Are you one of the trustees of the German-American
Bund Auxiliary, a domestic corporation in the State of New Jersey?
Mr. Kunze. I am one of the directors; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the group that owns Camp Nordland?
Mr. Kunze. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Who are the other trustees?
Mr. Kunze. I don't know their names. I am afraid Mr. Klapprott
or whoever loiows that will have to testify.
Mr. Starnes. How many trustees in the group that owns Camp
Nordland?
Mr. Kunze. I believe seven.
Air. Starnes. Seven; and you are the only person that you know
of that is a member of the board?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. You don't know the other six members?
Mr. Kunze. I know Mr. Klapprott is president.
Mr. Starnes. And do you know who the other five members are?
Mr. Kunze. I do not, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know who the secretary or treasurer of the
organization is?
Mr. Kunze. I am afraid I could not swear to that.
Mr. VooRHis. Don't you meet with the other trustees?
Mr. Kunze. They meet but I haven't been there regularly.
Mr. Starnes. Were you ever there?
Mr. Kunze. At these meetings?
Mr. Starnes. Have you ever attended any meetings there of any
kind or character?
Mr. Kunze. I don't believe I have this year.
Mr. Starnes. You have in previous years?
Mr. Kunze. I was not a director before.
Mr. Starnes. I know, but you have met with any group or attended
any meetings at Camp Nordland at any time during the past 5 or 6
years?
Mr. Kunze. I am instructed by counsel because I am a prospective
defendant perhaps in a suit in New Jersey concerning speeches made
at Camp Nordland, that I should not testify against mj^^self. In that
eventuality •
Mr. Starnes. What is the ground, that it might incriminate you?
Mr. Counsel, is that the objection?
Mr. Keegan. That is right. I will help you to get an answer to
that question if it is possible, Mr. Chau-man, but not in that form.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Mr. Mathias Kohler?
Mr. Kunze. I know Mr. Koliler; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is he one of the trustees of this organization?
Mr. Kunze. I believe he is; yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. We haven't gotten an answer to the other question.
Mr. Starnes. Just a moment and we will get it. Do vou know
Mr. John C. Fitting?
rX-A.MKllICAX rUiM'AGANDA A(T1\ 1 TIKS
8265
Ml'. KuNZE. I know him: yos, sir.
Mr. Staknes. Is he a m('iiil)or or is hv n trustee of the German-
American Bund AuxiHarv \vhicli owtis or operates the Nordhmd
Camp? ^
Mr. KuNZE. 1 beUeve he is.
Mr. StaRxNes. Isn't he the secretary?
Mr. Kunze. I believe he is.
Mr. Starnes. And Mr. Klapprott is the president, isn't he?
Mr. Kunze. I know tliat.
Mr. Starnes. Now, do you know Mr. Eiehard — I can't pronounce
his hist name: S-c-h-i-e-1-e?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Mr. Schiele?
Mr. Kunze. I beheye I know the gentleman.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't he one of the members of the hmwd of trustees
of this organization?
Mr. Kunze. I don't laiow.
Mr. Starnes. You don't know?
Mr. Kunze. No.
Mr. Starnes. Do you Imow Mr. Paul Sehaarschmidt?
Mr. Kunze. I know him slightly; yes.
Mr. Starnes. Is he a member of the board of trustees of this
organization?
Mr. Kunze. I don't know. sir.
Mr. Starnes. You don't know that?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you Imow Mi-. George — I can't make this out—
Neupert — Mr. George Neupert?
Mr. Kunze. I know Mr. George Neupert.
Mr. Starnes. Is he one of the trustees of this organization?
Mr. Kunze. I don't know that. sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do 3^ou know Mr. Carl Sehipphorst?
Mr. Kunze. I know Mr. Carl Sehipphorst.
Mr. Starnes. Is he one of the trustees?
Mr. Kunze. I don't know concerning him.
Mr. Starnes. When have you attended a meeting of the board of
trustees of this organization?
Mr. Kunze. I don't believe I ever did.
Mr. Starnes. You don't happen to belong to the Know Nothing
Party? I am afraid you are being evasive in vour answers, whether
purposely or not, I don't laiow\
Mr. Ki'NZE. Mr. Chairman, there would be no point in my evading
the answers concerning that board of directors because that can be-
come kno\\ni to you as soon as you want it. I only stated the fact^
that I know definitely that Mr. Klapprott is the president; that I was
made a director but that I have not been in a position to take part in
any of its meetings so far. That is why I don't know definitely con-
cerning those other names you have mentioned.
Mr. Starnes. The thing that puzzles the Chair about this things
Mr. Kunze, is that you belong to an organization that has the control
and direction and the ownership of Camp Nordland and yet you don't
know who the members are — who the seven members of the board of
trustees are when you are the directing genius and the head of it — of a
national organization known as the German-American Bund. You
8266 rx-AMP:RicAN propaCxANda activities
are also very indefinite as to the number of local units or the member-
ship that you have. You are very indefuiite in your recollection or
memory as to the location of these various local units and yet you state
that this organization is one which is national in scope and has a
very definite and decided program — affirmative program looking to
the benefit of its membership and too, so you profess, the public weal
of this Nation.
The Chair is at a loss to understand that position.
Mr. KuNZE. There are national officers and each one has his parti-
cular work to do.
Mr. Starnes. How many national officers do you have for your
German-American Bund at the present time?
Mr. KuNZE. There is a national secretary and a national treasurer.
Mr. Starnes. Do you Icnow who the national secretary is?
Mr. KuNZE. I know those officers; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Will you kindly give us the names for the record?
Mr, KuNZE. The national secretary is Wilhelm Luedtke.
Mr. Starnes. Who is your national treasurer?
Mr. Kunze. Gustav Elmer.
Mr. Starnes. Now, do you have any other national officers?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any vice presidents, national vice presi-
dents? If so, how many and who are they?
Mr. Kunze. The midwestern department leader is deputy national
leader.
Mr. Starnes. Who is he, the midwestern department leader?
Mr. Kunze. George Froboese.
Mr. Starnes. He was the leader under Mr. Kulm?
Mr. Kunze. He was midwestern department leader.
Mr. Starnes. Now, who are your New England or eastern depart-
ment leaders?
Mr. Kunze. The eastern department leader is Mr. Klapprott.
Mr. Starnes. Who is your Pacific coast or Far Western leader?
Mr. Kunze. The western department leader is Mr. Hermann
Schwinn.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any other departments?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Just the three?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You don't have any departments in the South or
Southwest?
Mr. Kunze. The departments run through from North to South.
Mr. Starnes. I believe that is all the questions I have. Mr.
Voorhis, do you have any questions?
Mr. Voorhis. I wanted to ask a couple of ciuestions, if I may. Mr.
Kimze, what is the approximate amount of dues that come in per
month to the organization now, do you know?
Mr. Kunze. I can't make definite statements without the
Mr. Voorhis. I don't want to know exactly — just approximately.
Mr. Kunze. Somewhere from $1,000 to $2,000.
Mr. Voorhis. Per month?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. And is the organization supported entirely by the
dues that it collects or does it have other sources of revenue?
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8267
Mr. KrNZE. Tliero arc donations nmdc occasionally hy individuals.
Mr. VooRHis. By an^^ oruanizations?
Mr. KuNZE. Not that 1 know, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Has one of the purjioscs of the oipinization l)een tlio
interpretation of the present regime in Germany to the people of
America?
Mr. KuNZE. That is not tlic case.
^[r. VooRHis. That is not true?
Mr. Ki'NZE. No, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. And as you stated before, as I understood 3^ou, you
would he o])posed to the spread of the influence of the present regime
in Ciermany, is that right?
Mr. KuNZE. We are opposed to the importation of the German
political system or any otlier foreign system in the United States,
Mr. VooRHis. Is that a new tack on the part of the organization?.
Is that a part of your reorganization?
Mr. KuNZE. I am sure that it is not.
Mr. VooRHis. What was the reason then for the organization
wearing the miiform of the Nazi storm troopers and giving the Nazi
salute and so on and so forth in the past?
Mr. KuNZE. That has never been done, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. You want the record to show that that never was
done; that you never wore a uniform similar to if not exactly ahke
the ones worn in Germany? And you want to go on record saying^
that it was never the practice of the members of the German-American
Binid to give the Nazi salute or wear the swastika or display it in the
meetings?
Mr. KiTNZE. We do use the swastika but I believe that is used in a
number of countries throughout the world and has been, for all kinds
of purposes.
^Ir. VooRHis. And j^ou never used the Nazi salute in meetings?
Mr. KuNZE. So far as we are concerned it is not a Nazi salute. I
have never seen a defuiition of that word.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, how do you give that salute then? Has it ever
been given [demonstrating]?
Mr. KuNZE. W^e have used a salute with the raised right hand;:
yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. O. K.
Mr. KuNZE. That is the one.
Mr. VooRHis. Is it used now?
Mr. KuNZE. It is used w^herever the law allows it; yes. sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Wlierever the law allows it?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. But you feel in doing that and the other things that
I have mentioned, is not in any way carrying over into the Ignited
States the influences of modern Germany?
Mr. KuNZE. Not as such; no, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't think so?
Mr. KixzE. (No answer.)
Mr. VooRHis. In the yearbook that we had before our committee
in its hearing a few months ago, the picture of Mr. Hitler was the first
picture in the book and then tliere was a picture of the President of the-
United States. Does that indicate any j)ref(>rence oii the j^ai't of your
organization?
8268 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. I am sure if I had had anything to say about that it
never would have happened.
Mr. VooRHis. You thought that was a mistake?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir; certainly.
Mr. VooRHis. Let me ask you this, Mr. Kunze: Certain changes have
been made; some of these things that used to be done by the bund are
not done now. Why did you drop those things? Why do you say
you think including that picture was a mistake? Wlij^ is it that uni-
forms of any sort are no longer worn and so on? What was your
reason for making those changes?
Mr. Kunze. Wherever we have had 'any customs which can be
misunderstood in their import — where they become a weapon to be
used in attacking us without any benefits thereby coming out for our
work, we have, of course tried to improve the situation. That is clear.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, is it possible that some of those things that you
yourself now say were mistakes, may explain in part for the bitterness
against the organization by other people in America?
Mr. Kunze. In many cases; yes.
Mr. VooRHis. And what would happen to American society as a
whole, America being composed as she is of people of many different
races and kinds, if eveiy one of those races were to organize itself into
a tight little racial group to say that "we propose to advance the
cause of this particular group to the exclusion of others"? What
kind of a comitry would you have?
Mr. Kunze. 1 believe in effect that is the case throughout the
country now except so far as the German-Americans are concerned.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean every one else is in one organization and
the German- Americans in another?
Mr. Kunze. I mean other elements are politically and economically
much better organized for their own defense than the German- Amer-
icans are and that is why they are not being made goats.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, I don't know of any racial group that is organ-
ized in that manner. Is there an organization of Anglo-Saxons in
America that you know of?
Mr. Kunze. There are quite a number of them, I believe, and there
is the Polish National Alliance.
Mr. VooRHis. That are exclusive and do not permit anybody else
to belong?
Mr. Kunze. I could not swear to that.
Mr. VooRHis. Have there ever been instances, speaking about
discrimination, have there ever been instances of discrimination or
intimidation against German-Americans by your organization because
those German- Americans did not play ball with you?
Mr. Kunze. No indeed.
Mr. VooRHis. I might say I disagree with you but that is your
testimony. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Thomas. As I understand it you were born in this country?
Mr. Kunze. I was, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Would you call yourself an American?
Mr. Kunze. I do, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Then why do you refer to yourself all the time as a
Crerman- American?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8269
Mr. KuNZE. Because the German- American is a political one —
we arc all Americans, but the blood in our veins is different.
Mr. Thomas. Oh, the blood in your veins is different from the
blood in the veins ol" any of the other people of the country?
Mr. KuNZE. I mean to say that the entire white population of the
United States is descended from Europeans. We have the En^-
hsh ^
Mr. Thomas. What I want to know is what you are — are you an
American or a German-American?
Mr. KuNZE. I am racially a German and politically an American.
Mr. Thomas. Were your parents born in Germany?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. You are racially a Gennan, but you are pohtically an
American?
Mr. KuNZE. That is true.
Mr. Thomas. Well, that is true of people whose parents who were
born in Ireland?
Mr. KuNZE. They would be racially Irish and politically American.
Mr. Thomas. Well, how do you become an American both racially
and politically?
Mr. KuNZE. I believe it woidd take a few thousand years to bring
that about.
Mr. Thomas. So that the only w^ay you can become an American
racially and politically is to, as you say, have a thousand years
go by?
Mr. KuNZE. That is a round figure, but I believe you understand
what I mean.
Mr. Thomas. Now, in regard to these trustees or rather these
names that you were asked about by the chairman. You said you
believed that all of them but one were trustees of Camp Nordland?
Mr. KuNZE. I believe there were two or three concerning whom I
don't know definitely.
Mr. Thomas. Well, you did say that Carl Shipphorst
Mr. KuNZE. I don't know about him.
Mr. Thomas. You don't know Carl Shipphorst?
Mr. KuNZE. I don't know whether he is a trustee or not.
Mr. Thomas. Have you attended any meetings when Carl Shipp-
horst was present?
Mr. KuNZE. I don't recall having attended any meetings of that
board of directors. I would like to call attention to the fact that I
have only been a dii'ector since their annual meeting of this year.
Mr. Thomas. What month w^as that?
Mr. KuNZE. 1 don't recall exactly.
Mr. Mason. Did you attend that meeting?
Mr. KuxzE. No, sir.
Mr. Tho.mas. Have you attended any meeting at Camp Nordland
since you became the leader of the German-American Bund?
Mr. KuNZE. I believe that })rings us brings us back to that case that
is pending.
Mr. Thomas. You know you have attended meetings out there since
December 1939. You will admit that, won't you?
Mr. KuNZE. I am sorry that I cannot answer questions concerning
that because of that case over there — not because there would be any
other reason for not answ^ering.
8270 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Thomas. Yes; but you are just evading the question. You
are evading the question. You know that you were out at Camp
Nordland since December 1939?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Thomas. I don't see any reason for not answering that simple
question.
Mr. KuNZE. I understand that I may be speaking against myself
and incriminating myself in an indictment which may come out of
Newton.
Mr. Thomas. I insist that he be compelled to answer the question
whether he was in Camp Nordland since December 1939.
Mr. Chairman, I don't think the witness should go into a long con-
sultation with his attorney. He should answer the question.
Mr. KuNZE. Mr. Thomas, don't you believe in all fairness that that
trial over there should be over, if there is to be one, before the Die&
committee demands an answer to that question?
Mr. Thomas. The Dies committee hasn't anything to do with any
trial.
Mr. KuNZE. It may have.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Witness, the question as I understand it is not
directed toward any specific meeting or any specific event. It is
just simply a question as to whether or not you have been at Camp
Nordland at any Lime since December 1939. That does not involve
any meeting, does not involve any commission of any crime. You
certainly know whether you have been out on that piece of property
or on a piece of property of which you are a trustee and one of the
joint owners and over which you have control or have had control
during that period of time.
The Chair directs you to answer that question because it is pertinent
to this inquiry.
Mr. KuNZE. I have been out there; yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Now, will you please tell the committee when you
were out there?
Mr. KuNZE. I was there on the 4th of July when I was arrested.
Mr. Thomas. And have you been out there since the 4th of July?
Mr. KuNZE. I have been out there since the 4th of July.
Mr. Thomas. When?
Mr. KuNZE. Oh, on a number of occasions. I could not say at the
moment exactly when.
Mr. Thomas. It is also true that you have really made your home
out there?
Mr. KuNZE. I have not done that, sir; no, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Where is your home?
Mr. KuNZE. In New York.
Mr. Starnes. The Chair agreed he did not need to testify to that.
Mr. Thomas. You referred a little while ago to "other elements. "^
What did you mean by that?
Mr. Kunze. All the various racial elements that make up the
citizenry of the United States.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. You spoke a moment ago about "difl"erent blood in
your veins" and the veins of bund members. Just what did you
mean by that?
UN-AMKRICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8271
Mr. KuNZE. Simply what is o;enorally called nationality. We
have Italian-Americans, English-Americans, Russian-Americans, and
German-Americans.
Mr. Staknes. You did not use it with the significance that the
blood in the veins of the German-American Bund members was
superior to that which flows through the veins of other American
citizens?
Mr. KuNZE. I meant nothing of the kind.
Mr. Starnes. Do you teach the members of the bund the doctrine
that people of German descent are a superior race of people?
Mr. KuNZE. We do not.
Mr. Starnes. You reaffirm your belief and the necessity of an
organization such as yours in order that American citizens of German
descent may have political representation in this country?
Mr. KuNZE. May have equality with all other elements in every
respect, that is all.
Mr. Starnes. All right, let me put it this way: You feel that they
do not have that equalit}^?
Mr. KuNZE. They do not at this time; no, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Will you recite specifically and clearly in what w^ay
they are denied their political and economic rights? I don't want a
speech but simply a clear statement as to how they are denied pohtical
and economic equality in this country?
Air. KuNZE. They are sufi'ering under boycotts.
Mr. Starnes. No. 1, they are suffering under boycotts.
Mr. KuNZE. They are being refused jobs in many places simply
because they have a German name or look German.
Mr. Starnes. All right, that is No. 2.
Mr. KuNZE. They are even being politically hounded as possible
or probable aliens or rather, traitors simply because they belong to a
German element and don't deny it.
Mr. Starnes. What else?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Are they denied a place on the ballot?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Are American citizens to your knowledge, of German
descent, denied a place on the American ballot?
Mr. KiJNZE. They are not but their chances of being elected are
very, very slim unless they condemn everything German.
Air. Starnes. Ai-e they denied employment in this country?
Air. KuNZE. In many places.
Air. Starnes. And do you still maintain that they are not given
adequate political representation?
Air. KuNZE. In most cases; yes.
Air. Voorhis. What chance would a group organized along the
lines of your organization have of getting people elected to office in
Germany today?
Air. KuNZE. I couldn't say.
Air. Thomas. I would like to ask a question. Supposing (he
United States and Germany should go to war. Would you be willing
to fight for the United States against Germany?
Air. KuNZE. Aly duties as a citizen would not allow me any choice
in the matter except to do so.
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 8
g272 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Thomas. I am asking the question — never mind your duties as
a citizen either m this country or in Germany. Would you fight for
America against Germany?
Mr. KuNZE. I answered that question.
Mr. Thomas. No; you didn't. I would like to know yes or no.
Mr. KuNZE. 1 understand the question is if the United States were
to be at war with Germany whether I would serve in the armed forces
of the United States.
Mr. Thomas. Against Germany either here or in Germany.
Mr. KuNZE. I would like to ask other Americans of other extrac-
tions how they would like to go to war against their countries. I
would like to ask an American of English descent how much he would
like to go to war against Great Britain.
Mr. Starnes. I would say that no man would get any pleasure out
of fighting anybody.
Mr. Thomas. The reason I asked that question was when Earl
Browder was before us, the Communist leader, approximately the
same question was asked of him, and Earl Browder dodged it and
finally said that he would just about do the same as he did in 1917,
which was to be a conscientious objector.
Mr. Starnes. I want to ask you this and then I am through. You
say you and your organization are opposed to the importation of any
political system from foreign sources to American soil?
Mr. KuNZE. Correct, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You are opposed to the doctrine of communism and
its importation to America?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Does your organization still fight communism m this
country as it originally did in 1936, 1937, 1938, and 1939?
Mr. KuNZE. We do; sir.
Mr. Starnes. Has there been any, and answer me truthfully, has
there been any collaboration on the part of yourself and your organiza-
tion with the Communist Party leadership and organization on a
political line in this country since 1939? That is September 1939?
Mr. KuNZE. There has not; sir.
Mr. Starnes. Has there been any consultation or agreement on a
plan of action by the two organizations?
Mr. KuNZE. There has not; sir.
Mr. Starnes. Has there been any consultation or agreement on a
plan of action by the two organizations?
Mr, KuNZE. There has not; sir.
Mr. Starnes. Has there been the same degree of activity on the
part of yourself and your organization in fighting the Communist
Party and the Communist Party line in America since September 1939
as it was prior thereto?
Mr. Kunze. That would require a qualified answer.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't it a fact that you do find yourselves in agree-
ment, speaking of the German-American Bund and the Communist
Party, along certain political lines in America today as they affect our
national relations?
Mr. Kunze. I do not. I would like to answer your first question.
Mr. Starnes. Just a moment. Are you opposed to the importation
of the doctrine of national socialism as exemplified in Germany under
the leadership of Herr Hitler, to the United States of America?
IN A.MKKICAN I'UOl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8273
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starxes. You would oppose its spread or growth in this
country as being inimical to the welfare of this country?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You woidd?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You would oppose the importation of fascism and its
growth in this country?
Mr. Kunze. Of that or any other form of political system,
Mr. Starnes. All right, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze, have you ever distributed stickers
bearing the slogan: "The Yanks Are Not Commg"?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Well, have you or have you not?
Mr. Kunze. Not personally; no.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever had in your possession stickers
bearing the slogan: "The Yanks Are Not Coming"?
Mr. Kunze. I have; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You have?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. "\Miat were you doing with them?
I would like to explain the purpose of my question. It is a well
known fact and has been established beyond any doubt that these
stickers are a Communist Party slogan, originated by the Communist
Party, propagated by the Communist Party and that the German-
Amei'ican Bund has taken it up from the Communist Party.
Mr. Kunze has stated that he has had them in his possession and I
^\'ould like to know what he did with them.
Mr. Starnes. Did you distribute them?
Mr. Kunze. No; they were given to me. I have seen them. I
have seen them in various parts of the country. They deal with the
question of whether the United States
Mr. Matthews. What did you do with them, that is the question,
Mr. Kunze.
Mr. Kunze. Those that I received I had until I threw them away.
Mr. Matthews. You threw all that you had away or do you still
have some?
Mr. Kunze. I am speaking of myself personally.
Mr. Mattthews. Yes; I am speaking of you personally.
Mr. Kunze. I may have one or two.
Mr. Matthews. Otherwise you have tlu'own them away; you
never passed them out.
Mr. Kunze. I have never personally — never personally never had
more than a half a dozen.
Mr. Matthews. Who gave them to you?
Mr. Kunze. I could not say at the moment.
Mr. Matthews. Where were they given to you?
Mr. Kunze. In New York.
Mr. Mattheavs. By whom?
Mr. Kunze. I could not say at the moment.
Mr. Matthews. Was it some member of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Kunze. As I recall it; ves.
8274 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Well, wouldn't you know who gave you such
stickers?
Mr. KuNZE. I would have to determine who it was.
Mr. Matthews. When were they given to you?
Mr. KuNZE. At the beginning — somewhere around the beginning
of this year.
Mr. Matthews. January 1940?
Mr. KuNZE. I think so.
Mr. Matthews. That was about the time — had you seen them
before that?
Mr. Kunze. I may have seen them.
Mr. Matthews. As you traveled around the United States prior
to 1940 had you seen these stickers?
Mr. Kunze. Not prior to that time, no, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know that that was approximately the
time that the Communist Party brought these stickers out?
Mr. Kunze. I don't know that.
Mr. Keegan. I object to that.
Mr. Starnes. That is a pertinent inquiry as to whether or not
there is collaboration as described by Dr. Matthews. The objection
is overruled.
Mr. Kunze. There has been absolutely no collaboration. I saw
those things and I have seen them elsewhere. I have no objection
to them but I didn't know where they came from or did not ask any
one for the ri2;ht to use them or anything of that kind.
Mr. Matthews. I understand that you have never received more
than a half a dozen — six, is that correct?
Mr. Kunze. I personally.
Mr. Matthews. You personally have received six; you have two
of them still in your possession and you destroyed four or threw four
away, is that correct?
Mr. Kunze. That may be true.
Mr. Matthews. That is your testimony, is it not?
Mr. Kunze. I could not swear to the definite figures. I have seen
a few samples of them and had them.
Mr. Matthews. You have testified that you have two or three
still in your possession, is that correct?
Mr. Kunze. I believe I have, yes.
Mr. Matthews. But you never had more than a half dozen and
that you did throw some away?
Mr. Kunze. I say I may have lost them or thrown them away.
Mr. Matthews. No; you said you did throw them away, isn't
that correct — isn't that your testimony.
Mr. Kunze. I don't definitely r(nneniber throwing any away.
Mr. Matthews. What did you do with them then, the ones you
don't have now?
Mr. Kunze. I never paid any particular attention to them except
they looked interesting when I read the text on them.
Mr. Matthews. But you remember that you had a half dozen and
now you have only two or three?
Mr. Kunze. What is the point in that?
Mr. Matthews. I want to know how you can remember almost
a year these numbers to which you previously testified but yet you
can't remember who gave you these stickers.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8275
Mr. KuxzE. I will correct that then to say that I recall having
so(Mi thcin, having had one in my hand aiul that 1 may still have it and
it may have been more than one, but not more than a' half dozen.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been to Germany?
Mr. KuNZE. I have, sir.
Mr. Matthews. \\Tien were you in Germany last?
Mr. KuNZE. In 1938.
Mr. Matthews. What month were you in Germany in 1938?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. What month did you go to Germanj^ in 1938?
Mr. KuNZE. I left here in May or June and returned in the middle
of August.
Mr. ^Iatthews. When were you in Germany prior to that visit?
Mr. KuNZE. In 1937, leaving here I beheve in the beginning of
August and returning in the beginning of November.
Mr. Matthews. And when were vou in Germanv prior to that visit
in 1937?
Mr. KuNZE. In 1930, leaving here in May and returning in July.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever make any other trips to Germany
than those three?
Mr. KuNZE. In 1929, leaving here in August and returning in No-
vember. I am pretty sure of those dates.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever make any other trips to Germany
than those four?
Mr. Kunze. I am told that I was taken along on a visit to Germany
in 1911 but I don't remember anything about that.
Mr. Matthews. When you were in Germany in 1938 and also in
1937, were you an official of the German-American Bund in this
country?
Mr. KuNZE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You were national organizational director, is that
correct?
Mr. Kunze. National public relations director.
Mr. Matthews. National public relations director?
Mr. KuxzE. Yes, sir.
Mr. IVIatthews. Both in 1937 and 1938 when you were in Ger-
many?
Mr. Kunze. Not in 1937. That was an interim period after leaving
Philadelphia.
Mr. Matthews. Did you occupy any official position or have any
connection with the German-American Bund in an official way in
1937 during your visit to Germany?
Mr. Kunze. I had given up my Philadelphia unit and was simply a
member until I returned.
Mr. Matthews. In 1938 wdien you were in Germany from May to
August, approximately, 4 or 5 months did you meet
^Ir. Kunze. Four or five months? It wasn't tliat long.
Mr. Matthew^s. June, July, August— you went in May. That
was 4 months.
Mr. Kunze. I was only there about 4 weeks that time. I believe
it was June when I left here.
Mr. Matthew^s. You said from May to August. That is what I
was going by. At any rate when you were in Germany in 1938 w^hat
Nazi officials did you personally meet?
8276 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Of the higher ranks?
Mr. KuNZE. I did not meet any.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet Rudolf Hess?
Mr. KuNZE. I did not, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You did not meet Mr. Hitler?
Mr. Kunze. I did not, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Goering?
Mr. Kunze. I didn't meet any
Mr. Matthews. You did not meet any of the higher ranking
officials?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What cities did vou visit in Germany?
Mr. Kunze. In 1938?
Mr. Matthews. Where did you spend most of your time, if I may
rephrase the question, during those 8 weeks?
Mr. Kunze. Near the southern border, at the home of my parents-
in-law.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go to Erfurt?
Mr. Kt'Nze. No, sir.
Mr. Matthew^s. Did you go to the Brown House in Munich?
Mr. Kunze. I did not, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you visit anv of the Nazi propaganda head-
quarters in Germany?
Mr. Kunze. I did not, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did vou visit Stuttgart?
Mr. Kunze. Not in 1938.
Mr. Matthews. Were you there in 1937?
Mr. Kunze. In Stuttgart; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go to Erfurt in 1937?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you visit the Ausland in Stuttgart in 1937?
Mr. Kunze. I visited the museum in that building while I was in
that city but in no official capacity whatever.
Mr. Matthews. Has the German-American Bund sent persons to
Germany for study of any kind?
Mr, Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Have groups or delegations been organized under
the auspices of the German-American Bund for trips to Germany?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir. In 1936 there was a trip to the Olympic
Games but I could not say anything about it because I wasn't in
New York and had nothing to do with the arranging of it.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze you testified that the swastika is
used by the German -American Bund, is that correct?
Mr, Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And in connection with that testimony you
elaborated your statement and said that the swastika was used by
many countries throughout the world. Do you mean to imply that
the use of the swastika by the German-American Bimd was not in
anyway whatsoever connected with the fact that the swastika is the
emblem of the National Socialist Party of Germany?
Mr. Kunze. We use that symbol as a sign of Christian nationalism
and more definitely as a sign of that part of the white people to wliich
we are most closely related in contradistinction to atheistic inter-
UN-AMEHTCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8277
nationalism, b\it not as representing any particular political system
whatever.
Mr. Matthews. I repeat the question, Mr. Chairman. I would
like to know if Mr. Kunze means to say by his testimony that the
use of the swastika by the Cierman-American Bund in the United
States has absolutely no coiniection wdth the fact that the swastika
is the official emblem of the Nazi Party m Germany. Now, I think
you can answer yes or no to that question.
Mr. Kunze. Will you read the question?
Mr. Starnes. Read the question, Mr. Reporter.
[Question read.]
Air. Kunze. No.
Mr. Staunes. What is your answer?
Mr. Kunze. No.
Mr. Matthews. The answer is, there is a connection?
Mr. Kunze. There is no connection whatever.
Mr. Matthews. It is entirelv accidental, in other words, as far as
these two facts are related, the fact that the German-American Bund
uses the swastika and that Hitler uses the swastika in Germany — that
is purely an accidental thing?
Mr. Kunze. May I enlarge on that answer?
Mr. Matthew^s. I would like to know if we are to understand
that it is purely an accidental matter that the German-American
Bund in the United States is using the swastika and that the Nazi
Party in Germany uses it as its official emblem?
Mr. Kunze. Dr. Matthew^s, I believe I answered that more cor-
rectly than with the word "accidental" in my previous reply. W^e
recognize that sj^mbol over there and elsewhere in the world as a
symbol of Clu-istian nationalism in contradistinction to atheistic
internationalism, and we use it because it happens to be that form
most generally used by races of the world closely related to us, but it
has no connection whatsoever with the political philosophy of national
socialism.
Mr. Matthews. Now, I understand you to say, and correct me if
I am ^^■Tong, that you recognize that the National Socialist Party of
Germany uses the swastika because it is a symbol of Christian na-
tionalism. Is that what you stated in your testimony?
Mr. Kunze. I am sure over there it means more. It means the
entire political system also and it does not mean that so far as we
are concerned here.
Mr. Starnes. How do you draw a distinction between what it
means there and what it means here if it is a part of a Christian
internationalism?
Mr. Kunze. If we adopt the symbol we also know why we adopt it
and know what it is to mean to us.
Mr. Starnes. You adopt it with reservations. You adopt a sym-
bol here in America but you do so with reservations so far as politicn.!
lines of action are concerned, is that right?
Mr. Kunze. Mr. Starnes, there are other political movements in
other countries also, in no way interested in importing Germany's
political S3^stem who are also using, or at least up to recently, are using-
that same symbol, simply as a Christian nationalist symbol.
Mr. Voorhis. AYliat are those other groups?
8278 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. Some in Canada, I believe, and even one of those
similar movements in Great Britain until it changed. It once used
that symbol also.
Mr. Matthews. Was that Sir Moseley's organization?
Mr. KiTNZE. I believe Moseiey had it in the beginning. T have
seen an Arab movement that uses that symbol. I have seen Russian
nationalists that use it.
Mr. VooRHis. But all the movements, at any rate, receive from
time to time from Germany certain literature and help in the way of
materials to be used to spread the gospel, don't they?
Mr. KuNZE. I don't know anything about that. It is not an anti-
Semitic symbol so far as we are concerned. It stands in the United
States as we see it because the vast majority of the population is
considered gentile-Christians, as a means to help unify them in the
preservation of American nationalism and the American political
system, which happens to be a Republic.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean you want to unify them around the
swastika?
Mr. KuNZE. Not as a political symbol. The political symbol is
the flag of the United States. There is no idea whatever of changing
that.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze, if you discovered that an organization
used the hammer and sickle as its emblem — —
Mr. Kunze. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. You would conclude would you not, that there
was some connection between them with the Communist movement
or at least some very distinct sympathy for the Communist move-
ment— wouldn't that be a conclusion that you would draw?
Mr. Kunze. It would be a reasonable conclusion to draw because
the hammer and sickle does not represent a simple geometrical figure
which has been used throughout history for all kmds of purposes;
whereas the swastika has through thousands of years always repre-
sented something, as we understand history, having to do with races
of people related to us.
Mr. VooRHis. Didn't the swastika originate among the Indian
tribes in South America?
Mr. Kunze. I know they use it there and in North America.
Mr. VooRHis. Is that where it came from?
Mr. Kunze. Perhaps.
Mr. Matthews. Were they Christian internationalists? Haven't
you read, Air. Kunze, that the Indians in Arizona recently repudiated
their century-old use of the swastika because of their fear there would
be confusion in their use of the symbol and the movement of Hitler?
Mr. Kunze. I wonder just what they were afraid of.
Mr. Matthews. I wondered if you had noticed that.
Mr. Kunze. They want to sell their carpets and rugs.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze, did you ever make an organization
trip to Texas on behalf of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Kunze. I did, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What towns or cities in particular did you visit
in the State of Texas for the purpose of organizing the German-
American Bund.
Air. Kunze. I do not care to expose any individuals in Texas or
anywhere else to any persecution, because their names may become
known as a consequence of this hearing.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8279
Mr. Matthews. I have asked you lor the names of the towns and
cities.
Mr. KuNZE. The authorities know if there are any bund members
in Texas — any units operating, where they are and who those people
are.
Mr. Starnes. He is not asking you, Mr. Kunze, for the names of
any individuals nor about any visit to any individual. He is asking
you merely what towns or cities you visited in Texas when you were
down there.
Mr. ^Iatthews. Did jou visit Taylor for the purpose of organiz-
ing the German-American Bund?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you visit Taylor?
Mr. Kunze. I visited Taylor but not for the purpose of organizing
anything.
^Ir. Matthews. Did you discuss the organization of the bund in
Texas with anyone in Taylor?
Mr. Kunze. Only academically. I visited the publisher of a small
newspaper.
Mr. ^IATTHEWS. Wliat do you mean b}-^ "discussing it with him
academically"?
Mr. Kunze. There was no intention of creating any part of the
organization there or getting members there. I was interested in his
paper.
Mr. Matthews. You just set up the hypothesis that in case there
were an organization there you would do so and so, is that what you
mean by "academically discussing it"?
Mr. Kunze. We may have spoken of the bund as such. I visited
that town to meet the publisher of that newspaper because I liked
some of the things in it.
.Mr. Matthews. Was that Hans Ackermann of Taylor, Tex.?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The editor of the Texas Herold?
Mr. Kunze. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you visit New Braimfels?
Mr. Kunze. I have been through New Braunfels; I never visited
anyone there.
Mr. Matthews. Did you discuss the organization of the bund in
Texas with a Mr. Leonhard?
Mr. Kunze. I am acquainted with him; he is not connected with
the organization. I have discussed with him that I am connected
with the bund and that I am interested in finding people who sympa-
thize with it.
Mr. Matthews. Did you discuss the subject of organizing the
bund in Texas or in any part of Texas with a Mr. Koetter?
Mr. Kunze. Yes; in the same manner as with Mr. Leonhard.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Kunze, you have read of the recently
concluded pact between Berlin, Rome, and Tokyo. Does the German-
American Bund support the principles embodied in that pact?
Mr. Kunze. The German-American Bund has nothing to do with
the politics of other countries.
Mr. Matthews. What is vour publication — your official publica-
tion?
Mr. Kunze. The F'ree American and Deutscher Weckruf und
Beobachter.
3280 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Do you mean to say that the Deutscher Weckruf
und Beobachter has never discussed the poHtics of other countries?
Mr. KuNZE. As a newspaper I would suppose it would.
Mr. Matthews. Has it ever discussed them editorially?
Mr. KuNZE. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. You read the papers, of course, don't you?
Mr. KuNZE. Quite frequently from an American point of view.
Mr. Matthews. Well, now, how do you square that with your
testimony that you don't discuss the politics of other countries?
Mr. KuNZE. The German- American Bund doesn't take any stand
on the politics of other coimtries except insofar as they directly affect
the United States.
Mr. Matthews. Well, do you think the recently concluded pact
affects the United States?
Mr. KuNZE. I have no opinion on it.
Mr. Matthews. I will change the question: Has the Deutscher
Weckruf und Beobachter in any way taken a position on this recently
concluded pact between these three powers?
Mr. KuNZE. The Deutscher Weckruf und Beobachter may discuss
the pros and cons as any other newspaper would.
Mr. Matthews. Has it done so?
Mr. KuNZE. I believe that is too recent. I don't believe that has
been done.
Mr. Matthews. How often does the publication appear?
Mr. KuNZE. Every week.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Edward James Smythe?
Mr. KuNZE. Slightly.
Mr. Matthews. In what connection have you met him? Has he
been actively connected with the work of the bund?
Air. KuNZE. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Never had any connection with the bund?
Mr. KuNZE. So far as I know he has never been a member or in
any way connected with the bund.
Mr. Matthews. He has never worked to support bund projects or
meetings or rallies?
Mr. KuNZE. He may in past years have been a speaker at some
meeting — I couldn't say.
Mr. Matthews. He was one of the speakers at Camp Nordland
that you referred to as having held a rally under the auspices of the
Ku Klux Klan, was he not?
Mr. KuNZE. That may be.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze, can you identify that as the letterhead
■of the German-American Bund and the signature of J. Wlieeler Hill?
Mr. Kunze. (No answer.)
Mr. AIatthews. You are not reading the letterhead ; you are read-
ing the contents of the letter, are you not?
Mr. Kunze. I believe that letterhead was used at that time but I
could not swear to the signature.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you have seen Mr James Wheeler Hill's
signature, have you not?
Mr. Kunze. I have seen it; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce this in
■evidence. It is on the letterhead of the German-American Bund, a
genuine :
rX-AMKI?ICAN PUorACAXHA ACTIVITIES 8281
letter dated Fe])ruarv 3, 1939. and addressed to Mr. Edward James
Smytlie, and signed by James Wheeler Hill.
The letter reads :
Dear Mr. Smythe: If you liave not as yet sold the tickets to the Madison
Square
Air. Starxes. Are you familiar with the signature of James Wheeler
Hill?
Mr. KuNZE. Fairly; yes, sir,
Mr. Starxes. You have seen it a number of times?
Mr. KuNZE. I have.
Mr. Starxes. You have had correspondence with him and you
have seen his signature on letters and documents that you knew were
?
Mr. KuNZE. I have, sir.
Mr. Starxes. All right. Now, does that look like his hand-
writing— does that look like his signature — does that resemble it?
Mr. KuxzE. It resembles it but I could not swear to its accuracy.
Mr. Starxes. He says he knows his signature and he has seen it a
number of times and he says it looks like his handwriting.
Mr. Matthews. The letter reads:
Dear Mr. Smythe: If you have not as yet sold the tickets for the Madison
Square Garden rally I ask you to return them to me at once because we are
completely sold out of reserve tickets —
And so forth, and it is signed "yours truly, J. Wheeler HUl."
Mr. Starxes. "\^^lat is the purpose of that?
Mr. Matthews. The witness has testified that Mr. Edward James
Smj^the has never in any way worked with the German-American
Bund. This letter establishes the fact that he has done so.
Mr. KrxzE. So far as I know, Dr. Matthews
Mr. Matthews. And Mr. Edward James Smythe was the principal
speaker for the newspaper at Camp Nordland and announced as one of
the leaders of the Ku Klux Klan for the State of New Jersey.
Mr. Starxes. All right.
Mr. Matthews. There are several other letters of the same tenor,
Mr. Chairman, which establishes the connection between Edward
James Smythe and the German- American Bund.
I ask your pleasure with reference to them. Shall 1 ask the witness
to identify them also?
Mr. Starnes. If he can identify them — if they are similar to the
others.
Mr. Matthews. This is a pencil signature of Mr. J. Wheeler Hill.
Do you recognize that, Mr. Kunze?
Air. KuxzE. It may have been. I could not swear to someone
else's signature.
Air. AIatthews. If you received a letter with that signature on it
you would not have any doubt about its authenticity, would you?
Air. KuxzE. It would not help me in a court of law.
Air. AIatthews. You are not in a court of law now. Do you
recognize that signature as that of James Wheeler Hill?
This letter is dated March 9, 1939, and addressed to Mr. Smythe and
signed "James \\lieeler Hill." This one is dated February 14, 1939,
addressed to Air. Smythe and signed by James Wheeler Hill. Do you
pick out any one of these signatures as more nearh^ resembling Mr.
James ^Yheeler Hiil's signature than the other two.
't5^
8282 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. KuNZE. I don't know his signature well enough to say which of
the three would resemble it most. I did say that I can't identify any
one of the three as definitely being his signature.
Mr. Matthews. But you have seen the signature frequently,
haven't you?
Mr. KuNZE. Once in a while. There is a certain similarit}^ between
all three. They may be his and they may not be his. I do not know.
Mr. Matthews. And that is despite counsel's statement ''they are
totally different."
Mr. Starnes. The first letter is received in evidence because he
stated it did resemble his signature and in his best judgment it was.
Mr. Matthews. That is the letter of February 3.
(The letter referred to was marked "Kunze Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Matthews. I have no more questions.
Mr. Starnes. An}^ further questions, Mr. Voorhis?
Mr. Voorhis. One question. Mr. Kunze, are you acquainted with
Herr von Speigel, the German consul in New Orleans?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. You are not?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. Have you ever met with any of the German consuls
in America?
Mr. Kunze. I have met several of them at affairs at which they
have been guests.
Mr. Voorhis. And where you have also been present?
Mr. Kunze. Yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. What were those occasions — what sort of occasions?
Mr. Kunze. I have seen the German consul general at affairs in
New York City — some German day celebration or something of that
kind or at the Christmas market. I have been introduced to him
when the occasion happened to require it. I have seen the consul
general on the west coast on one occasion at some aft'air of the bund
out there, but in each case it was a matter of being introduced and
that was all.
Mr. Voorhis. Have you ever visited in any of the embassies?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. You have never been to an embassy?
Mr. Kunze. Yes; I have been there once. I have been down-
town at the consulate general's office with Mr. Keegan on one occasion
but we didn't speak to the consul.
Mr. Matthews. \Vliy did you go there — why did you visit the
embassv?
Mr. Voorhis. My question was mth reference to the German
Embassv in Washington.
Mr. Kunze. I have had no dealings at the German Embassy.
Mr. Voorhis. You never have been there?
Mr. Kunze. I have been at that building on one occasion several
years aeio, I believe.
Mr. Voorhis. Do you recall what year it was?
Mr. Kunze. I believe it was in 1938 while I was visiting Wash-
ington, D. C, in the early part of the year.
Mr. Voorhis. What was your business there?
Mr. Kunze. None whatever. They were simply showing it to
me, that was all — people I knew in Washington were showing me
the German Embassy.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8283
Mr. VooRHis. You did not talk to nnyhody while you wore in there?
Mr. KuNZE. To some subordinate in the olliee, just to say "how do
jou do."
Mr. Voouiiis. Did you visit other embassies?
Mr. KuNZE. No, sir; we drove by others.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Kunze, what bank or banks in New York City
does the German-Ameriean Bund do business with?
Mr. Kunze. The German-American Bund uses the Manufacturers
Trust Co.
Mr. Thomas. Any other bank in New York?
Mr. Kunze. Perhaps the local unit does. I don't know about that.
The national organization does not.
Mr. Thomas. Did you meet a man by the name of Gerrard Wescott
w^hen he was visiting here?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir; I don't know the gentleman.
Mr. Thomas. You don't know him?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Never met him?
Mr. Kunze. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Air. Starnes. That is all. We see no reason for holding this witness
any further so you are excused from the process of the committee.
The other witnesses who are present in the committee room at this
time please return tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.
It is the intention of the committee to resume its public hearings at
9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 4:35 p. m., the public hearing was adjourned until
9 a. m., Wednesdav, October 2, 1940.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEEICAN PEOPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
OCTOBER 2, 1940
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee
TO Investigate Un-American Activities,
Newark, N. J.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (chairmaB>
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman), Voorhis, and Thomas. Also-
present: R. E. Striphng, chief investigator; Robert B. Barker,
investigator.
Mr. Starnes. The hearing wih come to order.
Mr. Khipprott, will you take the stand.
TESTIMONY OF AUGUST KLAPPROTT, EASTERN DEPARTMENT
LEADER, GERMAN-AMERICAN BUND
(The witness was^aecompanied by his attorney, Wilbur V. Keogan.)
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are going to give will
be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Let the record show Mr. Klapprott is represented by
his counsel, Mr. Keegan.
Give us your full name if you please?
Mr. Klapprott. August Klapprott.
Mr. Starnes. ^Vliat is your address?
Mr. Klapprott.^ My address is Nordland, R. F. D. No. 1, Newton.
Mr. Starnes. What is your business or profession?
Mr. Klapprott. I now work for the German-American Bund.
Mr. Starnes. You work for the German-American Bund?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you worked for the German-American
Bund as a business or for a living?
Mr. Klapprott. J'rom January 15 of this year.
Mr. Starnes. \Miat was your occupation prior to that time?
Mr. Klapprott. I ran a business in Nordland.
Mr. Starnes. What kind of a business?
Mr. Klapprott. Restaurant business.
Air. Starnes. How many years did you operate that business?
Mr. Klapprott. From May 1937 to the first of January 1940.
8285
5286 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Where were you born?
Mr. Klapprott. Where?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; where?
Mr. Klapprott. In Germany.
Mr. Starnes. When?
Mr. Klapprott. Septem])er 4, 1906.
Mr. Starnes. When did you come to the United States first?
Mr. Klapprott. September 1927.
Mr. Starnes. Are you a naturalized citizen?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Wlien did j^ou become natui-aHzed?
Mr. Klapprott. In the spring- of 1934.
Mr. Starnes. Wliere?
Mr. Klapprott. In Hackensack Courthouse.
Mr. Starnes. Have you been back to Germany since 1927?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What profession did you follow — what work did you
follow when you first came to America in 1927?
Mr. Klapprott. Bricklayer — mason.
Mr. Starnes. For how long?
Mr. Klapprott. Up to the time when I started the business in
Nordland .
Mr. Starnes. Did you follow that trade from 1927 to 1937 — 10
years?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You have lived in New Jersey all the while?
Mr. Klapprott. All the while; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you been back to Germany at all since 1927?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. When did you join the German-American Bund?
Mr. Klapprott. When it was founded in 1936.
Mr. Starnes. Were you a member of the Friends of New Germany?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; for 2 years.
Mr. Starnes. '34 and '35?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Mr. Starnes. Did you belong to the Teutonic Society or any other
German society prior to the time you joined the Friends of New
Germany?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Why did you join the bund?
Mr. Klapprott. To fight the boycott of German goods and German
people in America.
Mr. Starnes. To fight the boycott of German goods and people in
America?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Was there any other reason for your joining the bund?
Mr. Klapprott. That was my reason for joining the bund.
Mr. Starnes. That is what I want to get. What was your reason
— that was your reason — was that one of the purposes of the bund?
Mr. Klapprott. It was already from the Friends of New Ger-
many— the purpose of the Friends of New Germany.
Mr. Starnes. It was one of the purposes? Well, did the Bund
assume that obligation or aim or purpose as a part of its program?
UN-AMERICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8287
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Now, what was the other part of the program of the
build? In other words, what were its aims and purposes? It has
something else to do other than light agahist a boycott, against
German citizens and German goods?
Air. Klapprott. To organize politically to combat such movements.
Air. Starnes. In other words, it was a political organization?
Air. Klapprott. Oh, yes.
Air. Starnes. That was its concept?
Air. Klapprott. Yes.
Air. Starnes. Was the purpose of the bund to establish a separate
political party to provide political representation for the German
citizens of German birth or was the purpose of the bund to support
the Republican Party or Democratic Party, the Communist Party or
some other political party in this country?
Air. Klapprott. As I understand the bund always — we never tried
to be a separate party but we also never were Republicans or Demo-
crats. We always voted and let the people know for whom we thought
would be the right man to vote for. You see we were never a party —
true to any party.
Air. Starnes. The reason I asked that question is that I have the
impression and the committee has the impression from testimony of
Air. Kuhn and other leaders of the bund, that it was for the purpose
of establishing a political party to give representation to what they
alleged to be a persecuted minority m this country who are not given
proper political recognition or equal rights, politically, in this country.
\\Tiat is your concept of it? Was that your conception of the bund?
Air. Klapprott. It was not my conception at all to form a political
party — never was.
Air. Starnes. What is your position in the bmid?
Air. Klapprott. I am the eastern department leader.
Air. Starnes. You are the eastern department leader of the
German-American Bund?
Air. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Air. Starnes. How many States does that cover?
Air. Klapprott. The eastern seaboard States.
Air. Starnes. The eastern seaboard States from Alaine to Florida?
Air. Klapprott. Right.
Air. Starnes. How far inland does it extend?
Air. Kl.\pprott. Up to West Virginia.
Air. Starnes. Let us see if we can get the geographical limits
clearly fixed. You take in all of the New England States?
Air. Klapprott. Right.
Air. Starnes. New York?
Air. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Air. Starnes. Pennsylvania?
Air. Klapprott. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, West Vu"-
ginia, North Carolina.
Air. Starnes. Virginia?
Air. Klapprott. Yes.
Air. Starnes. Alaryland?
Air. Klapprott. Alaryland and South Carolina.
Air. Starnes. Georgia?
Air. Klapprott. Georgia and Florida.
62626—41 — vol. 14 9
8288 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Staenes. How many local units — I am not asking you about
the members, but how many local units do you have in your area?
Mr. Klapprott. About 20.
Mr. Starnes. How many of them are located in the New England
area?
Mr. Klapprott. There are none at all.
Mr. Starnes. None at all in the New England area. How many
in New York State and the city, of course?
Mr. Klapprott. City and State, you say?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Klapprott. About 10.
Mr. Starnes. How many in New Jersey?
Mr. Klapprott. Fom-.
Mr. Starnes. How many in Pennsylvania?
Mr. Klapprott. Only one just now.
Mr. Starnes. How many in Delaware?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. In Maiyland?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. West Virginia?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. In Virginia — the State of Virginia?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. In Washington, D. C?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. North Carolina?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. South Carolina?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. Georgia?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. Florida?
Mr. Klapprott. None.
Mr. Starnes. In other words, you have given us — you say there
are approximately 20 posts but you have only located here for us 15
in your area. Have we overlooked any States?
Mr, Klapprott. (No answer).
Mr. Starnes. Do you mean to say you do not have any bund
units, local units, in Massachusetts any more?
Mr. Klapprott. No; you see they are only small groups which are
not units. They are called branches.
Mr. Starnes. What would you say the approximate membership
is in your area? You have 15 local units that you have established
for us, 10 in New York City and State and 4 in New Jersey and 1 in
Pennsylvania. That is 15.
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I couldn't tell you exactly.
Mr. Starnes. Well, you can give us an approximation; I am not
asking you the exact number. I am not saying 999 and 1,001 or
anything like that, but approximately how many? Would you say
there are as many as 500?
Mr. Klapprott. There are more than that.
Mr. Starnes. Are there 1,000 in these 15 units?
Mr. Klapprott. About 500 in New Jersey, I know.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8289
Mr. Starnes. About 500 in New Jersey. Now, that is getting
somewhere. How many would you say in Pennsylvania?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know exacth', 150 or something.
Mr. Starnes. Then what would you say for the 10 units in New
York State and eity?
Mr. Klapprott. Maybe they comprise about 5,000.
Mr. Starnes. There are probably more in New York City and
State than any other section of the country, of course, because of the
population and because it is along the eastern seaboard.
^Ir. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat are the dues that the members are required to
pay?
^Ir. Klapprott. One dollar a month.
Mr. Starnes. How is that distributed? How is that allocated?
Is it so much for the national organization and so much for the local
organization? That is what I mean. How do 3^ou distribute that?
Mr. Klapprott. Sixty cents goes to the national headquarters.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have State headquarters?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. You have what you call district headquarters.
How much is allocated of that dollar to the district headquarters?
Mr. Kl.apprott. None at all.
Air. Starnes. How much to the local unit? In other words, 60
cents goes to the national headquarters, to Mr. Kunze or the national
treasurer or secretary. Who are those dues paid over to? To the
secretary or to the treasurer?
Mr. Klapprott. To the treasurer.
Mr. Starnes. And the other 40 cents is retained by the local unit?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; by the local unit.
Mr. Starnes. How is that money expended — for what general
purposes?
Mr. Klapprott. For the expense of the national office.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat does that consist of? Traveling expenses,
telephone and postage?
Mr. Klapprott. Rent.
Mr. Starnes. Rent for the office of the organization?
Mr. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. The witness nodded his head.
What else is the money used for? To carry on the political program
of the bimd?
Mr. Klapprott. Fees for counsel and those who have to work in
the office, you know, w^eekly wages.
Mr. VooRHis. How much do you spend for counsel fees?
Mr. Klapprott. We spent a fortune already.
Mr. Starnes. All right, do you make any contributions to any
political parties or do you carry on or finance your political activities
and carry it along the lines you suggested a moment ago?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't remember that we ever financed any-
thing else but our own.
Mr. Starnes. But your own?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
8290 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Have you ever sent any of that money out of this
country?
Mr. Klapprott. Not that I know.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know how the money was raised that Mr.
Kuhn testifii^d that he carried to Germany with him?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I only know I gave a dollar to that.
Mr. Starnes. You gave a dollar to that, too?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. It is an organization that calls foi- frequent contri-
butions of dollars and other amounts, is that right?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, how else could we exist?
Mr. Starnes. Do you solicit funds from indivichmls who might
be sympathetic to your program in addition to the dues that you
assess your members?
Mr. Klapprott. Occasionally; yes.
Mr. Starnes. You receive considerable amounts or money in that
respect?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, that is not a question I could answer properly.
You should ask the treasurer.
Mr. Starnes. Now, all right, have you ever solicited any one out-
side of the bund for money?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, years ago.
Mr. Starnes. Have you been successful in obtaining money out-
side of the membership of the bund?
Mr. Klapprott. Oh, I remember I had $10 on the list once, or
something like that.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the largest contribution you received?
Mr. Klapprott. That is all outside of the bund.
Mr. Starnes. Did you attend a joint meeting of the bund and the
Ku Klux Klan and the Protestant War Veterans of America at Nord-
land on August 18th?
Mr. Klapprott. I was at the meeting but I don't consider it a joint
meeting.
Mr. Starnes. Well, let us see who were there. There were bund
members there?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And this was on bund property?
Mr. Klapprott. It was the German-American Bund Auxiliary
property.
Mr. Starnes. And the trustet^s of that auxiliary are all bund
members?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And you were present on that occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Mr. Starnes. And you presided at the meeting?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. Well, you made some remarks on that occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Mr. Starnes. You s])oke in the morning, didn't you, and then
•didn't you speak again in the evening? You spoke twice on that
date there in Camp Nordland?
UX-AMERICAN PHOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES §291
Mr. Klai'pi{Ott. Yes; in the aftonioon I welcoinod the ^niests there
jiiul tlie ineiiibers and friends of the KUui and that is all I (\'u\.
Mr. Staknes. You welcomed your guests?
Mr. Klapprott. That is riijlit.
Mr. Starnes. There were hund members present there that day,
of course?
Mr. Klapprott. I suppose there were.
Mr. Starnes. Quite a number?
Mr. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. And there were klansmen present?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. By invitation?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, the day was advertised all right.
Mr. Starnes. It was what?
Mr. Klapprott. Advertised.
Mr. Starnes. It was advertised, yes, but the\- came there as an
organization and the Klan officials spoke. there that (hiy on invitation^
isn't that right?
Mr. Klapprott. No ; that day they entered the grounds
Mr. Starnes. Well, the night. When I speak of "that day" or
"date" I mean the day and night of August 18th. I am trying to
determine what occurred there on that day. Klan officials were
present and spoke there on that occasion, isn't that correct? On that
date Klan officials came there and spoke on that date?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; but they had the grounds rented from the
German-American Bund Auxiliary for that day. In the afternoon
before they started.
Mr. Starnes. There was a speaker there for the Protestant War
Veterans of America also, wasn't there?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; you refer to Mr. Smythe.
Mr. Starnes. Yes. Did they have the ground rented for that
occasion also?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Just the Klan rented the gromid?
Air. Klapprott. Just the Klan; yes.
Mr. Starnes. With whom did the Klan make that arrangement?
With the board of trustees or with you?
Mr. Klapprott. AVith me personally.
Mr. Starnes. With you personally?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Did you invite them or did you initiate it?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. The program?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. That led to the events of that day?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Or did they initiate tlu^ program?
Mr. Klapprott. I first got a telephone call from Dr. Young.
Mr. Starnes. And he was the
Mr. Klapprott. Well, he called himself Kleagle of the Klan.
Mr. Starnes. National kleagle or State kleagle or what?
8292 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Klapprott. State kleagle.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead. Did Dr. Young speak that day?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sh\
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chah-man, let him develop how the arrange-
ments were made for the renting of the gromids.
Mr. Starnes. Yes; go ahead and tell us how that was done.
Mr. Klapprott. Dr. Young called me up and said: "I heard so
much of your place and we were looking for a place to hold a meeting.
"Wliile it is hard for us to get a place we thought we would call you
because we want to try you out and see whether you are Americans
or not."
He told me that, and he said: "Couldn't we arrange some day so
you would give us the place for a day to have a meetmg for the Klan
at your place?"
I said over the phone, I said: "For that special purpose we would
have to come together once and talk this thing over."
"Of course," they said, "we will get a couple of thousand people to
go for the meeting."
After all 1 figured Camp Nordland was hit hard by all this propa-
ganda against the place and the boys from the newspapers did their
best to chase the people away and, of course, I welcomed the idea.
Then we made arrangements — we made a contract signed by the Klan
and signed by me as a representative of the German-American Bund
Auxiliary, for this August 18 to have an Americanization rally there.
Mr. Thomas. Have you a copy of that contract with you?
Mr. Klapprott. I haven't got one with me; no.
Mr. Thomas. Do you have a copy of it?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know. 1 could look for it. I think I have
it in my files.
Mr. Thomas. Will you submit a copy to the committee?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Now, I would also like to know how much rent was
paid to the bund auxiliary for the use of the camp that day?
Mr. Klapprott. There was no rent paid at all.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead or have you finished with your statement
as to what occurred and how the trade was made?
Mr. Klapprott. I think I did explain everything.
Mr. Starnes. Did I understand you to say a moment ago that Dr.
Young, in the course of that conversation, said the pm'poses or aims
of your organizations were the same, or that you were working toward
the same goal?
Mr. Klapprott. When?
Mr. Starnes. In arranging your meeting and the use of the
grounds.
Mr. Klapprott. No; Dr. Young said to me: "We want to try out
whether you are Americans and for that reason we will come up to
Camp Nordland."
I told him: "I am a good American and you can come any time."
Mr. Starnes. That is what I wanted to clear up. I did not under-
stand what vou said about that.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAG.VNDA ACTIVITIES 8293
Mr. Klapprott. I also told Dr. Young: and others from the Klan,
that any other oro;anization could rent the place too for a day.
Mr. VooRHis. But you say they didn't pay any rent?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. VooRHis. They rented it but they paid no rent, is that right?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right. They don't have to pay rent if
the people come there and eat in the place. That keeps the place up.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I would like to know wliat was in
that contnict.
Mr. Keegan. I am going to deliver a copy for the committee,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Thomas. That is all right; but maybe the witness would like
to tell us now some of the things that are in the contract. You say,
Mr. Ivlapprott, you had a contract?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Air. Thomas. Now, what was in this contract? There is nothing
in there about rent, so what was it?
Mr. Klapprott. I only said that they would have the site where
the open air platform is; that they would hold their meetings there
and that we couldn't interfere with that part, but that we could have
our restaurant as usual running for the occasion and that we would
take the 25 cent parking fee and that they were allowed to make a
collection for their Klan's treasury. That was in the contract.
Mr. Starnes. All right, I want to ask you some further questions
about the meeting. Was the press present on that occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. The press?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Were they permitted free range and freedom hi
action in going where they pleased and taking pictures as they pleased
and questioning people as they pleased?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't think so.
Mr. Starnes. How were they treated on that occasion and how
were they cared for on that occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, as much as I noticed they were taken into
place and let out of the place.
Mr. Starnes. They were taken in and let out?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Were they kept under close surveillance or guard
during the time they were in there?
Mr. Klapprott. They were.
Mr. Starnes. Were they told where they could go and where they
couldn't go?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I didn't tell them anything but I guess that
is about it.
Mr. Starnes. That is about correct?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You did not tell them what they could write and
couldn't write?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, they do that any way — they write what
they please.
8294 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. On that occasion did any of the speakers did
you hear the speakers on that occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Not all of them,
Mr. Starnes. Did you hear Dr. Young?
Mr. Klapprott. In the evening; yes.
Mr. Starnes. Did you hear Mr. Smythe?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. Did any of the speakers on that occasion make
reference to the fact that there was a minority in this country who
controlled it?
Mr. Klapprott. I didn't say so.
Mr. Starnes. I know, but didn't somebody else say that on that
occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I couldn't remember exactly what every-
body said.
Mr. Starnes. Wasn't something said like that by the speakers
present, which includes, of course, Dr. Young and others. Wasn't
that said a time or two? Probably you might have said something
about it, not all of this, but you and other speakers in substance said
that you could discuss in this country and talk any way you wanted
to about all nationalities and groups of different nationalities and
racial groups save one, but there was one minority group in this
country that you could not talk about without fear of prosecution or
persecution? Mr. Klapprott, was something said like that on that
occasion?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, if it was said then why don't you ask the
fellow who said it?
Mr. Starnes. Well, I am asking you. I am asking you if in the
course of your remarks you didn't make some reference to a certain
racial minority in this coimtry — you did not call any names, but you
spoke of a certain racial minority in this country?
Mr. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Isn't it a fact you made some reference, without
calling names, that there was a certain racial minority in this country?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I said: ''If you are fellow Americans and
staying out of this w^ar and you are like Lindbergh, in fact neutral,
then you will be called a fifth columnist" by a certain minority in
America. That is what I said.
Mr. Starnes. Well, now, did you say anything about a certain
minority in this country controlling the press?
Mr. Klapprott. And it is still my belief to a certain extent.
Mr. Starnes. You believe there is a certain minority in this
country that controls the press?
Air. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And a certain minority in this country that controls
the moving-picture industry?
Mr. Klapprott. Oh, yes.
Mr. Starnes. That is your belief?
Mr. Klapprott. Oh, yes.
Mr. Starnes. And it is your belief that there is a certain minority
in this country that controls the Government of the United States?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8295
Mr. Klappkott. To a certain extent.
Mr. Staknes. Now, that was the theme song generally of yourself
and of the speakers on that occasion, was it not?
Mr. Klapi'rott. That is and should be the theme song for every
American today.
Mr. Starnes. That may be your opinion. You are not responsive
to the ciuestion. 1 asked you if that wasn't the theme song on that
occasion among those who called themselves Americans — wasn't
that youi' theme song?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I suppose it was.
Mr. Starnes. There is a dance hall out there and a large restaurant
at Camp Nordland; is that right?
Mr, Klapprott. Yes; but on the other side of the hill. It is in the
front right where you come in.
Mr. Starnes. It is at Camp Nordland?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Now, on that date isn't it a fact there was a large
picture of Herr Hitler suspended there in that restaurant or dance
hall?
]Mr. Klapprott. You say whether that picture is still there?
Mr. Starnes. No, if it wasn't there on that date.
Mr. Klapprott. It wasn't there on that date.
Mr. Starnes. It wasn't there?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. It has hung there?
Mr. Klapprott. But it wasn't taken down just because of that
date.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't it a fact there was a picture of Herr Hitler
suspended there on that date, either from the roof or on the walls of
that building?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And there was a slogan, a printed slogan of some
tvpe or character which said, "One Spirit, One Bund, and One
Leader"?
Mr. Thomas. You better refresh your memor}".
Mr. Klapprott. That was last year.
Mr. Starnes. But it was out there?
Mr. Klapprott. It was last year out of there; yes.
Mr. VooRHis. When was the last time the picture of Hitler was
up there? Wlien was the last day, according to your best recollection,
that the picture of Hitler was there?
Mr. Klapprott. About the 4th of July of this year.
Mr. Tho.mas. Was it up there on the 4th of July?
Mr. Klapprott. I think it was.
Mr. Thomas. Was it up there on August 18 of this year?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. ThOiMas. Why did you say then it was last year when it was up
there and not this year? It was actually up there this year, wasn't it?
Wasn't the slogan up there on July 4 of this year?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. You are positive of that?
8296 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir; I am positive of that.
Mr. Thomas. You say you are positive on that?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; I think I am positive on that.
Mr. Thomas. But the picture of Herr Hitler was up there on
July 4 of this year?
Mr. Klapprott. I think so.
Mr. Thomas. On the other side of the hall was a small picture of
George Washington?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Mr. Thomas. Was there a picture of the President up there?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes; on the other side of the hall near the bar
was a picture of the President.
Mr. Thomas. A picture of President Roosevelt near the bar?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. You are positive on July 4 there was a picture of
President Roosevelt there?
Mr. Klapprott. I am not certain of that,
Mr. Starnes. Now, to get this literally, the slogan translated is
"One Racial Ancestry, One Society, One Leader," is that right?
Mr. Klapprott. Right, for America.
Mr. Starnes. For America?
Mr. Klapprott. In America. That hasn't anything to do with
Mr. Starnes. You haven't got there — you haven't got that on
there though: "Ein Folkstom, Ein Bund, Ein Fuehi-er"?
Mr. Klapprott. That means one people.
Mr. VooRHis. I miderstand that, but who would the one leader be
if it was for America?
Mr. Klapprott. One leadership of German-Americans because we
have thousands of Germans and thousands of different groups and
everyone wants to be the biggest one, so we say "you are one people,
why haven't we got one organization under one leadership and you
get some places."
Mr.TnoMAS. What leadership would that be?
Mr. Klapprott. That would be ourselves.
Mr. VooRHis. You said you would get some place. I wonder
where that would be?
Mr. Klapprott. You would get political recognition and you
would not be thrown out of your jobs and you wouldn't be a second-
class citizen in this country.
Mr. Starnes. Was anything said on that occasion about certain
racial minorities in this country being human insects?
Mr. Klapprott. I didn't hear anythmg like that.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Klapprott, the purpose of the bund is to try to
get all the Americans of German descent into one organization, if
possible, isn't that right?
Mr. Klapprott. Right.
Mr. VooRHis. About how many Americans of German descent are
there in the United States today? Do you estimate 15,000,000 or
maybe more?
Mr. Klapprott. Of German descent?
UN-AMEKIOAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8297
Mr. VooRHis. Yes; how many people do you consider would be
eligible to membership in the bund under those terms and under that
slogan?
Mr. Klapprott. Twenty million.
Mr. VooRHis. How many members have you now?
Mr. Klapprott. Mr. Kunze stated yesterday
Mr. VooRHis. And you agree with his figures, which I believe were
10,000?^
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Suppose you got all the 20,000,000 into one organi-
zation would you expect to dominate the other people of the United
States by that means?
Mr. Klapprott. We never want to dominate anything.
Mr. VooRHis. But you easily could, coiddn't you?
Mr. Klapprott. We could if we would have it today — we could
keep this country out of war.
Mr. VooRHis. That isn't what I am asking about. I was asking
you about the domination of the United States, whether you could
not dominate the United States if you had all the 20,000,000 German-
Americans in one organization and under one leadership.
Mr. Klapprott. Well; how could we when there are 130,000,000
or 110,000,000 people in the country?
Mr. VooRHis. They are not organized like that, none of them?
Mr. Klapprott. The}'^ are.
Mr. VooRHis. And that is the most important point about this
whole inquiry. Now, you spoke about a boj^cott. Can you give me
one instance of a boycott against people because they were Germans —
not because they are members of the bund or some organization, but
because they are Germans, which occurred prior to tlie time of the
organization of the Friends of New Germany in 1934?
Mr. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Mr. VooRHis. Or before 1936, for that matter, of a boycott.
Mr. Klapprott. When the Anti-Nazi League
Mr. VooRHis. That was organized in 1937?
Mr. Klapprott. Or the boycott committee of Mr. Unternieyer
brought out the first pamphlets. The}^ printed all the firms' names
who imported German goods.
Mr. VooRHis. When was that done?
Mr. Kl.\pprott. That was in 1933 ah-eady, and today they still
give those pamphlets out where those firms are named and they still
say as m 1933, that the boycott is the moral substitute of war. In
other words, these pamphlets are in war with Germany since 1933.
Mr. VooRHis. Was that movement organized in 1933, Mr. Klapp-
rott?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir; it was organized in 1933.
Mr. VooRHLS. Has your organization ever conducted any boycott
against anybody?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Are you sure?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, we are self-protecting.
Mr. VooRHis. Are vou sure it never has?
8298 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Klappkott. We never advocated anv bovcott ao-ainst anvoiie
se.
Mr VooRHis. Not against any German citizens who did not co-
operate with the bund? I don't mean German citizens, I mean
German-Americans that did not cooperate witli the bund? You never
bo^vcotted one of tliose?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Nor you never advocated a boycott against any
•other group of people?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. You are sure of that?
Air Klapprott. But we wanted to protect ourselves.
Mr. VooRHis. Is the membership of the bund, Mr. Klapprott,
composed of American citizens?
Mr Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Entirely?
Air. Klapprott. Yes. sir.
Air. Voorhis. Is that a rule of the buud?
Air. Klapprott. It is a rule.
Air. Voorhis. And yet yesterday Air. Kunze testified that the
leader on the west coast is not a citizen.
Now, as I understand Air. Klapprott's testunony, every single
member of the German-American Bund is a citizen of the United
States, is that right?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir; that is right.
Air. Starnes. Alay I interpose here for a moment?
Air. Voorhis. Yes.
Air. Starnes. When did that rule go into force and effect?
Mr. Klapprott. When the bund was formed from the Friends of
New Gennany, in the national convention in 1936 in Buffalo, N. Y.
Mr. Starnes. And since 1936 you have had no ahens in the bund?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Since that date you have not accepted anybody for
membership who is not an American citizen?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Air. Starnes. Is that correct?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. Air. Klapprott, what is the relationship between your
organization and the Deutscher Konsum Verband? Is there any con-
nection between the two?
Mr. Klapprott. Insofar as the German-American Bund is buying
from those people and supports them.
Mr. Voorhis. Is this an affiliate of the German-American Bund or a
subsidiary of the German -American Bund?
Mr. Klapprott. I would not want to say whether it is an affiliate
or subsidiary. I don't know. It is strictly a business matter; but it
is supported by the German- American Bund.
Mr. Voorhis. In other words if a store or somebody like that did
not cooperate with the work of the bund they probably wouldn't have
their name in there, is that right?
Mr. Klapprott. I would not say that, no.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8299
Mr. \c)c)Riiis. Isn't that llie case?
Mr. Klai'I'Kott. If a businessman cares to have the l)usiness and
support from members and sympathizers of th(> Germ an -Am eric an
Bund then he puts his name in tliere.
Mr. \'ooKnis. Just one or tAvo more (luesLit)ns. Have you in tlie
bund withni the last year we will say, have you hatl any organization
within the bund which carried on various types of military (h-ills and
disciplinary activities at one time or another within the last 12
months?
Air. Klappeott. \^'ell, -we have the order division but tliey ar(^ not
on militarv duty, as you call it.
Mr. \ ooimis. Aren't they under military type of discipline? Don't
they have duties that are very similai-, to say the least, to military
duties?
Mr. IvLAPPROTr. No.
Mr. VooRHis. That might be a matter of opinion, might it not?
Mr. Klapprott. 1 don't want to quarrel with your ideas.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all right, we will let it go at that.
Would you rent Camp Nordland to any group of loyal American
citizens that asked for it on the same basis you rented it to the Klan?
Mr. Klapprott. I think I would.
Mr. Yoorhis. You would?
Air. Klapprott. Yes.
Air. Thomas. Alay I ask a question there?
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Air. Thomas. I would like to know Air. Klapprott, whether yoir
would rent Camp Nordland to Jewish war veterans?
Air. Klapprott. Yes; and when I say "yes" I mean it.
Air. VooRHis. Air. Klapprott, have there been any changes in the
tactics pursued by the bund with regard to the Communist Party
since August of 1939?
Air. Klapprott. I don't thiid< so.
Air. VooRHis. You would know, wouldn't you?
Air. Klapprott. Any changes? The changes may have been that
the Communists don't attack us so much any more as they did, and as
we are always on the defensive we only hit back those who attack us.
Air. VooRHLs. Well, I wasn't asking you what somebody else did.
I asked what your tactics were about the matter. Have your tactics
changed any?
Air. Klapprott. The tactics again-st or about what?
Air. Yoorhls. The Communist Party or Communist groups wher-
ever you find them.
Air. Klapprott. We fought communism already from childhood up
and I don t think I changed my idea about communism.
Mr. VooRHis. I did not ask you whether you changed your attitude.
1 asked you whether the tactics of the German-Annu'ican Bund with
regard to the Comnnunsts aiul Comnuniist groups have cliangedi
since August 1939. Now. have they or have they not?
Air. Klapprott. 1 don't think so — i don't see any change.
Air. Yoorhis. But you would know whether they had or not.
8300 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Klapprott. Still fight the same Communist enemies as we
did from the beginning.
Mr. Starnes. But in this country you don't have the actual physical
combat between groups of bundsmen and its sympathizers, with the
Communists that you once had?
Mr. Klapprott. We never tried to physically combat communism.
Mr. Starnes. You never had any physical contact at all with
Communists in this country?
Mr. Klapprott. Oh, yes; but not that we went to the Communists;
the Communists came to us.
Mr. Starnes. Then that tactic has changed?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, they don't come any more, that is right.
Mr. Starnes. I say, they don't come any more?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right. They don't attack us any more
bodily.
Mr. Starnes. And therefore you don't defend yourselves any more
by hitting them back?
Mr. Klapprott. How could we? How could we if we go to their
meetings? That would be un-American. If we go to somebody
else's meeting we are un-American and that is no good.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean to say the members of the bund never
went to other people's meetings?
Mr. Klapprott. Never did,
Mr. VooRHis. They did not?
Mr. Klapprott. They never did.
Mr. Starnes. Let me ask you this as one of the leaders of the
bund: Have you sought during the past 12 months, or since you have
been giving your time solely and wholly to the bund, have you sought
the cooperation of other groups of American citizens — I will say
other racial stocks or groups who do not feature race as a part of
their program? In other words, have you sought any agreement
with the Klan or the Protestant War Veterans of America and groups
of that type and character?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. Have you sought to find a leader in common with
other groups in this country? Have you been seeking for a leader
during the past 12 months? That was testified to by bund leaders
last year. They testified having talked to certain American citizens
and meeting with certain groups of American citizens and approaching
distinguished Army officers and- other men with a view to obtaining
someone for that leadership?
Mr. Klapprott. I never did.
Mr. Starnes. I am not asking you if you did. I am askmg you is
it the policy of the bund any longer to do that?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I don't know anything about that, no.
Mr. Starnes. You did not attend any of the meetings that Mr.
Kuhn and others testified about last year, that were held here in
Newark and New York area and along the Pacific coast, m which
they were seeking a union of forces in this country who had the
same ideals?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know anything about those.
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8301
Mr. Starnes. You don't know anything about that?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Starnes. All right, Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Klapprott, who are the trustees of Camn
Nordland? ^
Mr. Klapprott. Those trustees are all filed with the State clerk
in Trenton.
Mr. Thomas. That may be so but I am asking you now who the
trustees are.
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I wish to state that in confidence to you;
otherwise these people are smeared through the press again.
Mr. Thomas. Well, if it is filed in Trenton it is public anyway,
Mr. Klapprott. Well, let them look them up.
Mr. Thomas. Nevertheless they are smeared or not smeared
Mr. Starnes. That is a pertinent inquiry and you will have to
answer the question. Those articles are on file and are a part of the
public record. Any citizen of America can go into the repository
where these papers are kept and ascertain who they are. That same
privilege is open to the press if they wanted that information.
Mr. VooRHis. My impression is that the names are in the record
as of yesterday.
Mr. Starnes. They are.
Mr. Thomas. Not exactly.
Mr. Starnes. All but two were identified yesterday. I read the
list to Mr. Kunze yesterday and he identified either four or five.
You can ask him about the list if you have the list there and you may
question him about it.
Mr. Thomas. Is Walter Kohler a trustee?
Mr. Klapprott. Mathias Kohler,
Mr. Thomas. Is Richard Schiele a trustee?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Is Carl Schipphorst a trustee?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Klapprott, now who are the owners of the cot-
tages at Camp Nordland?
Mr. Klapprott. I decline from telling here in this court the names
just so they can be published in the newspapers again, who the owners
of those cottages are.
Mr. Thomas. Will you submit a list to the committee of the owners
of the cottages?
Mr. Klapprott. If you promise to keep them secret.
Mr. Thomas. Never mind any promises. I want to know whether
you will submit a list or not.
Mr, Keegan. I think if the chairman will guarantee against unfair
publication of the list.
Mr. Starnes. If you will submit a list of those for the committee's
files that will be sufficient.
Mr. Keegan. Thank you.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Klapprott, what was the revenue of Camp Nord-
land in 1938?
8302 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Klapprott. You mean the gross income?
Mr. Thomas. Receipts, gross income; yes.
Mr. Klapprott. For tlie camp or for the business, you mean?
Mr. Thomas. Well, I mean — I don't know the exact difference
between the business and the camp, but I mean the revenue taken
in at Camp Nordland — receipts from the sale of beverages and all
that sort of thmg.
Mr. IvLAPPROTT. About $40,000 plus.
Mr. Thomas. \Vliat do you estimate to be the revenue of Camp
Nordland in 1940?
Mr. Klapprott. Must have been for the camp, four or five thou-
sand, that is about all.
Mr. Thomas. So in 1938 it was approximately $40,000 and now it
is approximately $4,000 or $5,000?
Mr. Klapprott. (No answer.)
Mr. Thomas. Have you ever been to the German-American camp
at Midvale — I have just forgotten the name of it.
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Have you attended meetings at any other German-
American camps in New Jersey?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. You said before you had four units in New Jersey?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Will you tell the committee where the locations of
those four units are?
Mr. Klapprott. In Newark, Hudson County.
Mr. Thomas. Wliat is the address m Newark?
Mr. Klapprott. They have no meetings any more.
Mr. Thomas. Well, have you a unit in Newark?
Mr. Klapprott. Only loose members — they can't get any hold.
Mr. Thomas. Well, do they meet any place in Newark?
Mr. Klapprott. No; can't meet any place.
Mr. Thomas. Don't meet in anyone's home or anything like that?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. So then actually there is no unit m Newark, is that
right?
Mr. Klapprott. Only those loose members who come up to Camp
Nordland, but that is all they can do.
Mr. Thomas. Now, you say you have a unit in Hudson County.
Wliere is that located?
Mr. Klapprott. The same condition. It used to be in the City
Hall Tavern in Union City. It is not active now.
Mr. Thomas. Have no meeting place now?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Where is the other?
Mr. Klapprott. Bergen County.
Mr. Thomas. Where is the meeting place?
Mr. Klapprott. Same condition.
Mr. Thomas. Where was it before?
Mr. Klapprott. They met in Mrs. Kuhn's place.
UN-AMERICAN PUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8303^
Mr. Thomas. Caroline Meade's lately?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Have you seen Caroline Meade lately?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. When was the last time you saw her?
Mr. Klapprott. The end of December last year.
Mr. Thomas. That was out at Camp Nordland?
Mr. Klapprott. No; in New York.
Mr. Thomas. How did you happen to select Andover Township
as the site for your camp?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, somebodj^ heard that there was a place
for sale. We were looking for a summer recreation place. Then
we got in touch with the owner and we bought the place.
Mr. Thomas. That was in 1934 or 1936?
Mr. Klapprott. That was in the fall of 1936 when we first started
to look for a place.
Mr. Thomas. And will 3'ou give the committee the location of it
in Andover Township — where it is located?
Mr. Klapprott. Sussex County.
Mr. Thomas. And it is located about how many miles from Dover?
Mr. Klapprott. About 12 miles.
Mr. Thomas. And about how many miles from Pompton Lakes?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know exactly. I never go that way.
Mr. Thomas. Well, would you say maybe 15 miles or 20 miles?
Mr. Klapprott. It is about that.
Mr. Thomas. About 20 miles?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. How many miles from Winocki?
Mr. Klapprott. ^^Tlere is that?
Mr. Thomas. That is halfway between Camp Nordland and Pomp-
ton Lakes.
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know the town.
Mr. Thomas. Camp Nordland is how far from Lake Patna?
Mr. Klapprott. About 7 or 8 miles.
Mr. Thomas. How many miles from Warton?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know the town.
Mr. Thomas. You said before that the German-American Bund
was a political organization, that is correct, isn't it?
Mr. Klapprott. Not entirely political — cultural and educational.
Mr. Thomas. It is m part a political organization?
Mr. Klapprott. Part political and part educational.
Mr. Thomas. Have you made a declaration of receipts and ex-
penditures to the Secretary of State?
Mr. Klapprott. Are you talking about the German-American
Bund Auxiliary?
Mr. Thomas. I am talking about the thing that you said was a
political organization. You said the German-American Bund was in
part a pohtical organization, is that correct?
Mr. Klapprott. The bund ; yes.
62626— 41— vol. 14 10
8304 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Thomas. Have you made any declaration to the Secretary
of State of receipts or expenditures?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know anything about that. That would
be the national headquarters to do that.
Mr. Thomas. Have you checked up with yoiu* attorney at any
time as to whether you should, under the law, make any declaration?
Mr. Klapprott. That is up to the legal department, I guess.
Mr. Thomas. Have you a membership list?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. You haven't a membership list?
Mr. Klapprott. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. When members pay their dues what do you do?
Give them a receipt?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't laiow how they do it.
Mr. Thomas. You don't know how it is done?
Mr. Klapprott. I never collected any dues. I never did collect
a penny of dues.
Mr. Thomas. Well, you are the head of the eastern department of
the German-American Bund, aren't you?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Thomas. And you are familiar with the organization?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know whether the treasurer gives a receipt
or not when he accepts dues?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't think so. He gives them stamps which
go in the book.
Mr. Thomas. Well, has he a membersliip list?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't think he has.
Mr. Thomas. Does any officer of the German-American Bund have
a membership list?
Mr. Klapprott. No ; as much as I know nobody is allowed to carry
any list.
Mr. Thomas. That was a result of an order handed down by Fritz
Kuhn a few years ago?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Do you have a mailing list?
Mr. Klapprott. I haven't got any.
Mr. Thomas. Did you have a mailing list?
Mr. Klapprott. We did in the first years I know, but no one has
now — I don't think we have.
Mr. Thomas. You say there are about 500 members of the bund in
New Jersey?
Mr. Klapprott. That is my estimation.
Mr. Thomas. Would you know all of them by sight?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, that is impossible.
Mr. Thomas. You would not know them by sight?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. And you would not know them by name either?
Mr. Klapprott. No, couldn't know them by name.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know where they are all employed?
IN-AMEUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8305
Mr. Klapprott. That is what I don't know at all.
Mr. Thomas. And that is what you don't want to know?
Mr. Klapprott. That is your conclusion.
Mr. Thomas. Is one of the purposes of the German-American
Bund to keep this country out of war?
Mr. Klapprott. One of the main purposes.
Mr. Thomas. One of your main purposes is to keep this country
out of war?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Before in response to some questions put to you by
Mr. Voorhis in relation to communism, and I think in connection with
some other testimony given to this committee, I got the idea that at
one time the Germ an- American Bund was active in combating com-
munism, is that correct?
Mr. Klapprott. And still today.
Mr. Thomas. It is still active today?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Well, what active steps are you taking today to
combat communism?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, wherever we have a chance to have a meet-
ing yet we talk about the danger of Communist philosophy and give a
certain educational program to combat communism as a philosophy
of life. As I stated before, in the first years communism triecl to
attack our meetings all the time, and then out of that also the order
division got in existence so we could identify our men from others.
That was the original creation of the order division in the bund.
Mr. Thomas. Are you as active in combating communism today as
you were in 1938?
Mr. Klapprott. We are. We still are against the philosophy of
communism as we were before.
Mr. Thomas. Do you combat communism today as you did in 1938?
Mr. Klapprott. We do.
Mr. Thomas. Is your press still combating it in the same way?
Mr. Klapprott. We do as much as
Mr. Thomas. Your newspapers, yes, but are your newspapers com-
bating it the same way as they did in 1938?
Mr. Klapprott. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. You say they do?
Mr. Klapprott. I said they do; yes.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know Adolf Bauer?
Mr. Klapprott. No; I don't know him.
Mr. Thomas. He is active out there at Camp Nordland, isn't he?
Mr. Klapprott. I might know him.
Mr. Thomas. Adolf Bauer. I don't know exactly how to spell the
name, whether it is B-o-w-e-r or B-a-u-e-r. Do you know any per-
son by that name?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know him. I might know him when I
see him.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know Otto Bauer?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
8306 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Thomas. As I imderstand you have no liquor license out there
now at all?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Is beer sold on the premises now?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Is beer given away on the premises?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, there are some who want to buy one for
himself. He buys one and then drinks it.
Air. Thomas. You mean someone can buy beer there now?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't care whether someone buys beer or not.
Mr. Thomas. I may ask — I know you may not care but what I am
trying to find out is, can a person go there and buy beer?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Can't buy beer?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. Beer is distributed there, isn't it?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't know anything about that either.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know that someone goes into Camp Nordland
they can buy a ticket for a dollar?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. We will consider the meeting of July 4 or the meet-
ing of August 18; weren't tickets distributed to people who attended
Camp Nordland, who paid a dollar for those tickets?
Mr. Klapprott. Not that I know of.
Mr. Thomas. You don't know of any tickets sold or distributed
for the price of a dollar on either one of those days?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. For any purpose wliatsoever?
Mr. Klapprott. No.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. If a person were present at that camp on either July
4 or August 18 and contributed a dollar upon solicitation, to the
defense fund of Fritz Kulin, would he be given the right to drink beer
there on the grounds?
Mr. Klapprott. Not that I know of.
Mr. Starnes. Would he be given some receipt or ticket that would
entitle him to drink beer on the grounds and be served beer on the
grounds?
Mr. Klapprott. This is very new to me.
Mr. Starnes. Very new to you? All right, your organization as an
organization and as part of the national policy, opposed the passage
of the Selective Service Act, did it not?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't think we did.
Mr. Starnes. You didn't? Did you oppose as a policy of your
organization, and I want you to be very careful about this, the pas-
sage of the act giving the President of the United States the authority
to order the National Guard into service for one year's peacetime
training?
Mr. Klapprott. That was a bill in Congress.
Mr. Starnes. Yes; I am talking about congressional bills. First,
did the bund as an organization and as a part of its policy oppose the
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8307
passao:o of tho bill by Congress which authorized Ibo Prosidcnt of the
United States to order the National Guard of the United States into
sers^ice for 1 year's peacetime training?
Mr. Klapprott. We, as much as 1 know, we always against the
President ordering things. We were always for Congress should
decide on questions like that.
Mr. Staknes. In other words, you oppose giving the President any
authority to order out the guard?
Mr. Klapprott. That is right.
Mr. VooRHis. But you would not insist, would you, that the
Reichstag in Germany should have the authority to veto the acts of
the fuehrer?
Mr. Starnes. I will ask you if it was tlie policy of the bund as a
national organization, to oppose the passage of the Selective Service
Act by the Congress during the past month?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, I would have to look into it.
Mr. Starnes. All right, you might have called it "the conscription
bill." Did you oppose the passage of the conscription bill?
Mr. Klapprott. I think we did; yes.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't it a fact that you did do so editorially in your
publication and that the organization was active in its figlit against
the passage of that bill?
Mr. Klapprott. Well, only with the newspaper, I guess.
Mr. Starnes. Hasn't the bund as a part of its policy opposed the
defense preparations of this country during the i)ast 12 months?
Mr. Klapprott. I don't think so.
Mr. Starnes. That is all I have to ask.
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. That is all; you may be excused.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Barker, who will be vour next witness?
Mr. Barker. Mr. Arthur H. Bell.
TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR H. BELL, ORGANIZER FOR THE KU
KLUX KLAN
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnl}^ swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Give us your full name and vour address, please?
Mr. Bell. Arthur H. Bell, Bloomfield, N. J.
Mr. Starnes. WTiat is your profession or vocation?
Mr. Bell. At the present time?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Bell. I am an organizer for the Klan,
Mr. Starnes. At the present time?
Mr. Bell. Yes, until 3 weeks ago.
Mr. Starnes. What positions have you held in the Klan other than
^n organizer?
8308 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Bell. I was grand dragon for the State of New Jersey, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the chief office?
Mr. Bell. That is so.
Mr. Starnes. That is the chief presiding officer of the Klan in
this State?
Mr. Bell. Yes, su*.
Mr. Starnes. And you were such on the 18th of August of this
year?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. I beg your pardon?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the truth?
Mr. Bell. That is the truth.
Mr. Starnes. How long were you grand dragon?
Mr. Bell. I was grand dragon from 1933 to 1934.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat position did you hold in the Klau from 1934
to this time?
Mr. Bell. I held no position in the Klan until 2 years ago.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat position did you hold then?
Mr. Bell. I went in business for myself.
Mr. Starnes, In other words, prior to that time, prior to the t'me
you went in business for yourself you were working for the Klan?
Mr. Bell. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. An employee of the Klan?
Mr. Bell. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And you received your remuneration from them?
Mr. Bell. Correct.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you been a member of the Klan?
Mr. Bell. Since 1920. ^
Mr. Starnes. How many members, approximately, in the lOan, do
you have at the present time in New Jersey?
Mr. Bell. At the present time?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Bell. I could not give you an idea. When I was grand dragon
I could have told you.
Mr. Starnes. Wlio is the grand dragon at the present time?
Mr. Bell. Samuel G. Stout III, of Philadelphia.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any idea how many posts or local units
or branches of the Klan there is?
Mr. Bell. As an offhand guess I would say about 35.
Mr. Starnes. In the State?
Mr. Bell. That is a guess, sir.
Mr. Starnes. I understand. We are just merely getting an approxi-
mation and there is no criticism of you.
Mr. Bell. Not being the grand dragon I have no knowledge of it.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat was the membership of the Klan — can you
give us some approximation of the size of the units so we can get some
sort of approximation of the membership?
Mr. Bell. You mean at the present time?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
UN-AMEKICAN PKOl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8309
Mr. Bell. No, sir; not being in charge of the meetings I don't know-
any thing about them.
Mr. Starnes. At the time you were grand dragon what was its
membership in the State?
Mr. Bell. I would say about 300,000.
Mr. Starnes. About 300,000 in the State?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That was the peak membership?
Mr, Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Were you present at the meeting that was held on
August 18th at Camp Nordland?
\h\ Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you speak on that occasion?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Were you one of the officers of the Klan who made
arrangements with Mr. Klapprott for the use of Camp Nordland on
that occasion?
Mr. Bell. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. In other words, did you take any part in the negotia-
tions or conversations leading up to the use of Camp Nordland by the
Klan?
Mr. Bell. I meant Mr. Klapprott — I mean I met Mr. Klapprott
once prior to that date, at wdiicli time the thought was brought and
it was more or less agreed upon, that we meet there.
Mr. Starnes. What led to that meeting?
Mr. Bell. The thought was brought to me by another member
of our organization that it would be a good idea to go to a place
where there was supposed to be no Americans and speak on Ameri-
canism to them.
Mr. Starnes. Well, did vou expect to find such a place at Camp
Nordland?
Mr. Bell. Well, that was the understandmg, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That there wouldn't be any Americans there?
Mr. Bell. They were hyphenated Americans.
Mr. Starnes. And you were going to put on Americanization
program, is that the idea?
Mr. Bell. That is the idea, yes, that I understood, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Was there anything said at all in the negotiations
about the aims and purposes of the two organizations being one?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know anything of a movement that has been
under way during the past year or 18 months or any time during that
period, by leaders of certain groups to unite these groups into one
organization or to place them behind one program in this country?
Mr. Bell. I have never heard anything about it. I know nothing
about any other organization excepting the Klan and, of course, w^hat
I met with
Mr. Starnes. You have never had any dealings with the officials of
the Knights of the White Camellia?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Or the Silver Shirts?
8310 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Pelley's organization?
Mr. Bell. I heard of them through the press but know nothing
about them.
Mr. Starnes. You never participated in any form, shape or man-
ner in an effort to bring about leadership behind one group in this
country or behind one program?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What are the professed purposes of the Klan now,
briefly stated and no speech?
Mr. Bell. No, sir. I would like — do you want me to put that in,
sir, or do you want me to just speak about it?
Mr. Starnes. If it is brief.
Mr. Bell. This is why I joined the Klan. I was handed one of
these and it appealed to me: Believing in the tenets of the Christian
religion, white supremacy, protection of womanhood, just laws, the
pursuit of happiness, closer relationship of purer Americanism ; the
upholding of the Constitution of the United States, the sovereignty
of our State rights, separation of church and State, freedom of speech
and press ; the relationship between capital and labor, or the preserva-
tion of the cause of mob violence and lynchings, preventing of
unwarranted strikes by foreign labor agitators; prevention of fires
and destruction of property by lawless elements; the limitation of
foreign immigration; much needed local reforms and laws and order.
That appealed to me, sir, and that is what the Klan stands for.
Mr. Starnes. You said that the peak membership of the Klan
when you were grand dragon in this State, was probably 300,000, is
that correct?
Mr. Bell. That is my estimation. Of course, that is a long time
ago. I could not give you the actual figures.
Mr. Starnes. Would you say that many at the present time, judg-
ing from your experience and your contact with the Klan and your
work as an organizer of the Klan, going about over the State, woidd
you say your membership is that strong at the present time?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Would you say it was half that number?
Mr. Bell. Well, you are asking me something that I cannot answer.
Mr. Starnes. I understand that.
Mr. Bell, I will tell you the reason I can't answer it.
Mr. Starnes. But at the same time I would like to have some
approximation.
Mr. Bell. The reason I can't answer it is I know nothing about
the southern end of the State.
Mr. Starnes. What about the strength of the northern end of the
State as compared to former years?
Mr. Bell. I would say it is about one-fom'th. That is roughly
guessing.
Mr. Starnes. Wliere was your membership, most of it, formerly
located when you were grand dragon and you were familiar with the
approximate strength of the Klan?
Mr. Bell. Where was it located, sir?
UN-AMEIilCAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8311
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Bell. All over the State.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any idea what the membership of the
Klan was at its height throuiihout the country?
Mr. Bell. The national Klan?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Bell. No, su\
Mr. Starnes. At this meeting out here on August 18, was that the
only time that the Klan had met at Camp Nordland? Was that the
fij-st and onh' tmie it ever met at Camp Nordland?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you, in the course of your remarks, make any
reference to the fact that it was possible to criticize or talk as you
pleased, as an American citizen, about any particular group, racial
or religious or otherwise, in this country save one, but there was one
minority in this country you would be violently criticized for if you
said anything critical of?
Mr. Bell. I heard you put the question and I was trying to remem-
ber whether I said anything like that or not. I might have mentioned
something casually that way.
Mr. Starnes. Do you recall saying something to the effect there
w^as a minority in this country which apparently had control of the
press?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And the moving-picture industry?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And financial affairs of the nation?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You did not make that statement?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. But you might have said something to the effect
that you could discuss and criticize any other racial group and any
other organization in this country save one racial minority?
Mr. Bell. It is true I might have said that.
Mr. Starnes. Did you see the picture of Adolf Hitler being dis-
played anywhere within the confines of that camp at the time you
were there?
Mr. Bell. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Starnes. Was that the only visit you ever made out there?
Mr. Bell. I have never been there except that day.
Mr. Starnes. Did you go through this so-called dance hall?
Mr. Bell. I was in there and had something to eat.
Mr. Starnes. Was there a dance hall there?
Mr. Bell. There is a floor space about, I would say, about as large
as this auditorium here, with tables and seats around it.
Mr. Starnes. WTiat was the date of that meeting?
Mr. Bell. August 18.
^Ir. Starnes. ^Yliat have been the activities of the Klan in this
State?
Mr. Bell. In which way, sir? Will you put the question again?
Mr. Starnes. I said, what have been the programs of the Elian in
this State?
8312 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Bell. To unite the people of the Protestant faith in the or-
ganization of Americanism; to teach Americanism where we could
to try to discourage hyphenated Americanism and to build up a closer
relationship of Christian men and women.
Mr. Starnes. Have you engaged in any drills or formations as an
organization, of any type or character?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That partook of the nature of military drills?
Mr. Bell. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you worn masks or robes which would disguise
your identity?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You have done that?
Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Why do you feel it is necessary to do a thing like
that?
Mr. Bell. Sir, that was a part of the ritualistic regalia when I
went into the organization. It is simply a symbol — a symbol of
secrecy, the same as any other organization, without mentioning any
names. They have their secrets and symbols of secrecy. However,
that has been changed. They do not wear the visor any longer.
That is not allowed by the order of the imperial wizard. The visor
is not allowed on the order of the imperial wizard.
Mr. Starnes. How long since the visor is not allowed?
Mr. Bell. In other words, the members of the klan still wear
their robes.
Mr. Starnes. Their robes and helmet?
Mr. Bell. The robes and helmets but the visors have been removed.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Bell, did you tell the leaders of the German-
American Bund that you were going out there because you thought
there were not any Americans there and you wanted to Americanize
them?
Mr. Bell. I did not say that to anybody. I think that thought
was given by the men who made the original arrangements.
Mr. VooRHis. I thought that was your testimony in answer to
Mr. Starnes' question.
Mr. Bell. He asked me why I agreed to it.
Mr. Starnes. That is correct.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, do you think it was wise to hold the meeting
there?
Mr. Bell. I did then; I don't now.
Mr. VooRHis. Are there any groups of people or individuals who
are excluded from membership in the Klan?
Mr. Bell. Excluded?
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Bell. Not by the Klan itself. It is a Christian organization,
«ir, so therefore Hebrews do not join it. It is a Protestant organiza-
tion, so therefore Catholics do not join it.
Mr. VooRHis. They can't join it?
Mr. Bell. If the church allows them I understand they can. But
it is also my understanding that the Catholic Church does not permit
its members to join anything not controlled by the church. I am
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8313
not a Catholic and I know I can't join the CathoHc Church. This
hoins: a white or<2;anization the NeQ:roes are naturally excluded.
I think they have org-anizations that I can't join.
Mr. VooRHis. But it is your judgment that it is helpful to the
country to have different groups organized in little tight organizations?
Mr. Bell. No.
Mr. VooRHis. And sometimes secret.
Mr. Bell. Yes. Secret societies — they have been in existence
since the time of King Solomon.
Mr. VooRHis. I asked you if you think it is good for the country.
Mr. Bell. I think so in this way. I have made statements — I
have spoken in Negro churches and before Negro congregations and
before all types of people that don't belong to the Klan, and I made
the statement we can work with all organizations and fight for Ameri-
canism as groups, working united together.
I mean by that the Catholics, the Jewish people and the Negro
people.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you attempt to cooperate with them?
Mr. Bell. Perfectly willing to if they are fighting for America.
Mr. Starnes. Any further questions, Mr. Voorhis?
Mr. Voorhis. That is all.
Mr. Thomas, No questions.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Starnes. You may CfJl your next witness.
Mr. Barker. Reverend Young.
TESTIMONY OF REV. A. M. YOUNG, FORMER GRAND KALIFF OF
THE KU KLUX KLAN IN NEW JERSEY
Mr, Starnes. Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you
solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help 3^ou God?
Mr. Young. I do,
Mr. Starnes. Give us your full name and address, please.
Mr. Young. Alton Monroe Young, D. D., Hudson County, New
Jersey.
Mr, Starnes. You are a doctor of divinity?
Mr. Young. I am.
Mr, Starnes. With an honorary degree?
Mr. Young. All doctors of divinity have honorary degrees,
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any other degrees honorary or other-
wise?
Mr. Young. None whatsoever.
Mr, Starnes. Are you the pastor of any church?
Mr. Young. I haven't been for about 7 years.
Mr. Starnes, How long have you been in the ministry?
Mr, Young, Forty years.
Mr, Starnes. Where were you born?
Mr, Young, Texas.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you been a member of the Klan?
Mr. Young. Well, since, almost, the first day it started 23 years
ago.
8314 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. How long have you lived in New Jersey?
Mr, Young. Forty years.
Mr. Starnes. You joined the Klan in New Jersey?
Mr. Young. I did.
Mr. Starnes. What is your present position?
Mr. Young. Klansman.
Mr. Starnes. You have no title of any type or character?
Mr. Young. I am former grand kaliff of the State, which is vice
grand dragon.
Mr. Starnes. In just plain, everj^day language that means the
same as vice president of a corporation?
Mr. Young. Vice president.
Mr. Starnes. How long were you in that position?
Mr. Young. Well, now, I can't give you that date. I was made
grand kaliff the day Mr. Bell was made grand dragon and I don't
quite remember the j^ear. I will have to ask him to tell you that, sir.
I could not tell you.
Mr. Starnes. Are you in a position or do you loiow about what the
approximate membership of the Klan is in the State at the present
time?
Mr. Young. There isn't any one, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Don't you keep a roll or record of some sort?
Mr. Young. At Atlanta, Ga.
Mr. Starnes. At Atlanta, Ga.?
Mr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. They would have it?
Mr. Young. Atlanta, Ga., has the complete roster of the Ku
Klux Klan.
Mr. Starnes. For the entire Nation?
Mr. Young. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You don't have a State organization or anything like
that that keeps a record of its own members?
Mr. Young. Well, the Klan is not as it w^as years ago and I am not
really prepared to tell you that for I don't know.
Mr. Starnes. You don't know anything about its finances or
anything of that sort?
Mr. Young. No.
Mr. Starnes. How much do vou pav annual dues to the Klan?
Mr. Young. $6.
Mr. Starnes. $6 per year?
Mr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat is the initiation fee?
Mr. Young. $10.
Mr. Starnes. You heard the testimony, of course, of Mr. Bell
with reference to the wearing of robes and concealment, and so forth,
and so on?
Mr. Young. I did.
Mr. Starnes. His statement was a correct statement of the present
situation? The}^ do wear the robes but they
Mr. Young. They have no visor.
Mr. Starnes. The visor is pulled back so the face
Mr. Young. It is cut off. We are not allowed to have it there^
It was cut off by the order of the imperial wizard ; and may I add this,
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8315
that if any ono were oaug-ht with somi'thiiis attached, permanently
attached. th(>y wouhl be banished from the Khm.
Mr. Starnes. Did you attend a meeting out here at Camp
Nordhvnd on August IS?
Air. Young. I did; I arranged it.
Mr. Starnes. You arranged the meeting?
Mr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. ^Vlly did you arrange that meeting?
Mr. Young. Well, I will answer you for the same reason why I
have been in the Ku Klux Klan for 23 years.
Afr. Starnes. Just a moment, for your information and to be
])erfectly fair with you the committee has an unbroken rule we don't
permit the reading of statements.
Mr. Young. I am not reading tlie statement. This is something
I thought you asked for about an hour ago and I have it here for you.
Mr. Starnes. Just give us briefly and in your own words and
without any attempt at making a speech, the answer to my question —
be as factual as you can.
Mr. Young. It is pretty hard for an old fool; why did we?
Mr. Starnes. Yes; wh}^ did you arrange the meeting with the
bund?
Mr. Young. I \W11 tell you, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the
committee, for the last year and a half we have been bombarding,
and I think your Congressman from that district can vouch for that,
that we have been out all' hours of the night and all hours of the day
preaching against the German- American Bund and the Fascists and
all un-American or hyphenated American organizations.
On the Fourth of Jul}^ I happened to be one of the speakers at
New^foundland at a Klan rally, and then went to a church rally —
the Methodist Church. I read the next day of a man by the name
of Klapprott, who I never saw in my life at that time, and some
other men — I can't tell you their names, I don't know. I know^ I
met two bundsmen — Kunze and Klapprott and the thought came to
me, you know I probably made an awful fool of myself — I don't
object to that going on the record. I am an old man. I am an Ameri-
can and an\'thing that I have ever done in my 23 years with the Klan
has onlv been done with one objective.
The thought came to me if we could only go up there to Camp
Nordland, invite all Klans people of the State and around the terri-
tory and have a great national day. I went to my superior officer
and I told him of my desire. He said it could not be done.
He said: "You don't expect an un-American group like that to
let the Klan have its meeting ground when you know we call our-
selves the No. 1 patriotic order of America, and I still insist we are —
they wouhhi't have us there.''
"Well," I said: "Who do vou get in touch with,'' and he said:
"I don't know."
I learned through inquiring about where I might get a man who
was supposed to live in Hoboken. and that was Mr. Klapprott. But
I learned he did not live hi Hoboken. I got in touch with him through
a paper — I never heard of it hi my life before. I think they call it
the Free America — the Free American. I think that is the name of it.
8316 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
I called up and asked for the man who had charge of New Jersey and
the lady wanted to know who I was and what I wanted and so forth.
I said that I happened to represent the Ku Klux Klan and I wanted
to talk about the property for a meeting. Very shortly a gentlemen
got on the phone and said his name was Mr. Klapprott and I told
him — I told him what we wanted and he said: "Well, I can't make
any decision as to that."
As a matter of fact I rather felt he was doubtful that it could be
held there. He said he would have to take that up with the board,
and he said: "You will have to come to me and you will have to tell
us why you want this meeting and we would want to know whether
you were going to openly attack us or not."
I said: "Well, we are gomg to attack, I can tell you now, any
group or any mdividual whom we consider is out of harmony with the
United States of America."
So we met — to tell you the house I don't know, it was somewhere
in Union City. I could take you there but I don't know the number.
I met Mr. Klapprott and Mr. Kunze. I think that is the head of it.
He was here yesterday. They asked me why we wanted to visit
their camp.
"Well," I said: "It isn't a matter of visiting your camp; it is a
matter of putting on an Americanization program."
I told Mr. Klapprott, and I am sure he will bear me out in this,
I said: "If you can take the dishing out of our Americanism that we
will give you well then I don't think you" are such bad Americans,
but I don't know whether you can nor can't."
There was only one thing that he asked me and that was that we
don't attack what you call the bund.
Mr. Thomas. Wliat was that? I did not hear you.
Mr. Young. The bund, and I said: "If it is un-American it should
be attacked; if it is American you won't object to being questioned
anyway."
And to make a long story short of the negotiations, w^e entered
into a contract of which I have here a copy of the contract. If you
would care to have me read it or how would you like it presented?
Mr. Starnes. Read it for us.
Mr. Young (reading) :
Camp Nordland, R. F. D. No. 1, Newton, N J, July 1940. . .
It doesn't give the date and I can't tell you the date. But I thmk
it does further down.
Agreement: Be it agreed between the authorized representatives of the Ger-
man-American Bund AuxiliarA', Inc., a New Jersey corporation and owner of
Camp Nordland, August Klapprott on one part and the authorized representa-
tives of the Knights and Women of the Ku Klux Klan of the Realm of New
Jersey, Arthur H. Bell and A.M. Young on the other part, that the Knights and
Women of the Ku Klux Klan of the Realm of New Jersey, be permitted to hold
Americanization exercises, to take up a collection, on the general assembly
grounds —
and may I say here, gentlemen, the general assembly grounds is a
natural bowl and it isn't on the part of the property where the
German-American Bund have their buildings.
There is only a platform there.
Mr. Thomas. I would like to ask a question there: Isn't that
bowl within the 200 acres owned by the bund?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8317
Mr. Young. I could not tell you that, Mr. Thomas. I don't know.
I presume it is because they give us a contract.
Mr. Starnes. All right, proceed.
Mr. Young (reading) :
Take up a collection on the general assembly grounds —
that was the place where we were meetmg —
at Camp Xordland on the afternoon and evening of August 18, 1940, subject to
the following conditions:
The Knights and Women of the Ku Klux Klan of the Realm of New Jersey
agree to abide by the general rules and regulations of the Camp Nordland manage-
ment; no admission fee shall be charged for entry to the grounds but a contribu-
tion of 25 cents shall be collected from the operator of every automobile or other
vehicle entering the property —
It doesn't say here but that was
Mr. Starxes. That was your contract?
Mr. Young. That was their mone}^ and not ours. We did not
get any of that money. [Reading:]
The restaurant and other food, beverage concessions on the ground shall be
operated by the Camp Nordland management. Other current activities on the
grounds or in the buildings of Camp Xordland shall not be limited or affected by
this meeting.
That is we had no rights there excepting on that field.
Now, I might say, sir, that there is a portion here where it is
penciled or inked out and okayed by Mr, Klapprott's signatme. He
inked it out. He put a stipulation there that they held the right to
refuse any one the privilege to come on that field that they felt should
not be on the field, and as we were having a meeting where everybody,
black and white, Jew and Catholic and Protestant, were invited, we
would not stand for it — that is the grand dragon would not stand for
it in Philadelphia. He had the contract. He asked to see the con-
tract. They then removed that objectionable part about the camp.
That is about all, gentlemen, regarding that.
Mr. Starnes. May I ask you a question with reference to this
meeting
Mr. Thomas. I would like to ask a question regarding the contract.
Dr. Young, was any fee paid for the use of the premises?
i Mr. Young. Well, Mr. Thomas, you w^ould say yes and you would
say no. We considered the fee of getting the money on the gate was
ample fee for the use of the grounds; otherwise there was no money
( paid.
Mr. Thomas. That was for the parking privilege?
i Mr. Young. Ye&— well, I don't know w^hether you call it parking,
i sir.
Mr. Thomas. I understand, it was for automobiles.
Mr. Young. Yes; to get into the groimds.
Mr. Starnes. Din-ing the course of the day or evening or both,.
H did you make a talk — a public addiess?
^ir. Young. Well, sir, I talked about 3 minutes, perhaps — I had a
wedding
Mr. Starnes. Did you in the course of your remarks make any
reference to the fact that there was afforded every American an
opportunity to criticize any minority or racial group in this country
save one, but there was one minority group you would dare not
attack without reprisals?
8318 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Young. I could not say that because-
Mr. Starnes. On this occasion you did attack one racial group,
did you?
Mr. Young. Now, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Starnes. Just answer the question.
Mr. Young. Well, I have got to clarify that.
Mr. Starnes. I want to know first if on this occasion during the
brief time you talked, if you attacked a racial mmority?
Mr. Young. I would not call it "attack." I disagree with the
theological standpoint of the Jew and I have been told all around
there that there was a law in New Jersey that if a man said something
about a Jew he would be arrested; if he carried three pamphlets in
his pocket that were anti-Jewish he would be arrested ; if he was in his
home and had five people there and talked about the Jew he would be
arrested. I say it and I say it again that this is a free country and it
gives me the right to attack, not an individual — there are criminal
libels for that — but any group of people or any race and I still hold
that right.
Mr. Starnes. Did any of the other speakers there make any
reference to the fact that in this country the press, the moving-
picture industry, its financial set-up for the Government was con-
trolled by a racial minority?
Mr. Young. I think there was.
Mr. Starnes. Do you recall who made those remarks?
Mr. Young. A man who is supposed to have an organization by
the name of
Mr. Starnes. Smythe?
Mr. Young. Yes, sir,
Mr. Starnes. He is supposed to be with the Protestant War Veter-
ans of America?
Mr. Young. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. He made the statement?
Mr. Young. He made the statement and I was very much opposed
to his having been permitted to speak at all on the platform.
Mr. VooRHis. Who invited hun to speak?
Mr. Young. Mr. Bell.
Mr. Starnes. That is all.
Mr. Thomas. No questions.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Starnes. Call the next witness.
TESTIMONY OF OTTO HOHNER, IRVINGTON, N. J.
(Mr. Hohner was attended b}^ Mr. Keegan, his attorney.)
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth so help you God?
Mr. Hohner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Let the record show this witness is represented by
Mr. Keegan.
Will you give j^our full name and address, please?
Mr. Hohner. Otto Hohner, 1022 Grove Street, Irvington.
Mr. Starnes. By whom are you employed?
Mr. Hohner. Roselle Tool & Die Co.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
8319
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr. Starnes. How long; have you been employed by them?
Mr. IIoHNER. About 6 years.
You live here in Newark?
Irvington.
Where were you born?
Germany.
\\Tien?
June 23, 1909.
When did you come to America?
1929.
Was that the first time you came here?
Yes.
Have vou been back to Germany?
Yes.
WTien?
1936.
\^Tiat month did you go back?
End of May, I think.
How long did you remain there?
Until the end of September, including the trip.
Ai"e you a natm-alized citizen?
I have my fu'st papers.
Your first papers?
Yes.
When did you take out yom- first papers?
The fu"st time I took it out m 1930.
Took out your first papers in 1930?
Yes.
And you did not complete yoiu- citizenship papers
so you took out your second first papers when?
Mr. HoHNER. I applied for them in 1939.
What month, do you recall?
June or July.
Mr. Starnes. Do you frequently visit Camp Nordland?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. WTien did you first begin your visits to Camp
Nordland?
Mr. Hohner. My first visit?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Hohner. I think in 1938 I was up there a few times.
Mr. Starnes. A few times in 1938?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Now, you continued to visit Camp Nordland
tlu-oughout 1939?
Mr. Hohner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You went up there quite often?
Mr. Hohner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Would you say once a week or once every 2 or 3
weeks throughout the year, and sometimes more than once a week,
is that correct?
Air. Hohner. I should sav about once every 2 weeks during 1939.
Mr. Starnes. Then you have been gomg up there through 1940?
Mr. Hohner. I have been— during 1940 I have been up once a
week.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Starnes.
Hohner.
Starnes.
Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Starnes.
Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Hohner.
62626 — il— vol. 14-
-11
8320 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Were you there the day the Kii Klux Klan was
having its meetmg on August 18?
Mr. HoHNER. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Are you a member of the German- American Bund?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Starnes. Have you ever been a member of the bund?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Starnes. Were you a member of the Friends of New Germany?
Mr. Hohner. No.
Mr. Starnes. You own an automobile, don't you?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And the hcense number is ES-29-C?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That was the automobile m wliich you visited the
camp on August 18?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Air. Starnes. ^Vliy were you going to Camp Nordland so often if
you are not a member of the bund?
Mr. Hohner. Because I was helping out a friend Avho is.
Mr. Starnes. Because what?
Mr. Hohner. Because I was helping out a friend.
Mr. Starnes. You were helping out a friend?
Mr. Hohner. Who is an officer at the camp and he is under the
doctor's care and I was doing
Mr. Starnes. Have you seen members of the Bund drilling at
Camp Nordland?
Mr. Hohner. I wish you would define that a little more- — "drill-
iiig." As I heard that this morning already you mean military
drilling. If it is military drilling I haven't seen it.
Mr. Starnes. I asked you if you saw any drilling.
Mr. Hohner. I have seen formations.
Mr. Starnes. Prior to the time that you came here from Germany
did you have any military experience?
Mr. Hohner. I had not.
Mr. Starnes. Had none?
Mr. Hohner. No.
Mr. Starnes. How were these formations that you saw out there,
these drill formations, what were they — describe them to the com-
mittee.
Mr. Hohner. Well, they were the same like thej^ would hold up
to the grounds where the speakers w^ere.
Mr. Starnes. Have you seen them in uniform out there?
Mr. Hohner. I have in 1938.
Mr. Starnes. In 1938 j^ou saw them in uniform?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Have you seen the swastika displaj^ed out there
along with the American flag?
Mr. Hohner. I have.
Mr. Starnes. Have you seen the members of the Bund give a salute
like this (demonstrating) with the right hand?
Mr. Hohner. Early in 1938 I have.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8321
Mr. Starnes. In 1938 you saw them give the so-called Nazi salute
with the right hand?
Mr. HoHNER. (No answer).
Mr. Starnes. Is that correct?
Mr. HoHNER. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You did not see that in 1939 or 1940?
Mr. HoHNER. I did not.
Mr. Starnes. Have you seen in the dance hall and in the res-
taurant a photograph of Herr Hitler displayed or shown either in
1938, 1939 or 1940?
Mr. HoHNER. I have seen it in 1939.
Mr. Starnes. \Mien was it?
Mr. HoHNER. During the summer season.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask a c^uestion there?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Hohner, have you been out to the bar there at
Camp Nordland where they serve beverages?
Mr. Hohner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starxes. Did 3 ou see the pictures of Hitler at the bar?
Mr. Hohner. At the bar?
Mr. Thomas. Yes.
Mr. Hohner. No; I don't recollect seeing it there.
Mr. Thomas. Did you see any pictures at the bar?
Mr. Hohner. I don't recollect any pictures at the bar.
Mr. Thomas. Did you see a picture of Hindenburg and Bismarck
at the bar — in back of the bar?
Mr. Hohner. I don't recollect.
Mr. Thomas. Well, now since 1938 did j^ou see any pictures there
at the bar at all?
Mr. Hohner. No, not that I can recall — not that I have noticed,
Mr. Starnes. Did any one make any attempt to get you to join
the bmid — any one ask you to join?
Mr. Hohner. Well, I have been asked why I am not joining.
Mr. Starnes. You were asked why you did not join?
Mr. Hohner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Did this friend of yours ask you to join?
Mr. Hohner. No.
Mr. Starnes. You had other friends though who did ask you?
Mr. Hohner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Asked why you did not join?
Mr. Hohner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. ^Aliat do vou understand the purposes of the bund
to be?
Mr. Hohner. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. In asking you to join they certainly told you the
aims and purposes of the bund; what did you understand the purposes^
of the bund to be?
Mr. Hohner. To gather the German-Americans into one group.
Mr. Starnes. For what purpose?
Mr. Hohner. To have more political influence and to unify all the
Germans — all the German cultures in one organization.
Mr. Starnes. What else?
Mr. Hohner. That is all I know of.
Mr. Starnes. Did they also tell you it was to fight against any
boycott of German people or German-American people and of German
8322 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
goods? Did they tell you that was one of the reasons they formed the
bund?
Mr. HoHNER. Not to me.
Mr. Starnes. They did not tell you that?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Starnes. Well, are you in sympathy with the aims of the
bund as you understand them?
Mr. HoHNER. As I understand them; yes.
Mr. Starnes. As you understand them you are?
Mr. HoHNER. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Have you a Social Security card?
Mr. HoHNER. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. Have you the card with you?
Mr. HoHNER. I have not; I am sorry.
Mr. Thomas. Do you recall the number on that card?
Mr. HoHNER. No; I can't give it to you.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Barker, have you got the number of the card?
Mr. Barker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. A little later on will you give the number to this
committee.
Do you know whether the Roselle Tool & Die Co. has any national-
defense contracts?
Mr. HoHNER. I don't laiow.
Mr. Thomas. Do you know whether that company has any
national-defense contracts, Mr. Barker?
Mr. Barker. They do.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, this is one of a great many cases
that Mr. Barker and other mvestigators have unearthed in New
Jersey where members go to the bund camp and are employees of
firms in this State that have national-defense contracts.
I just wanted to point that out.
Mr. Starnes. The Chair will make a reference concerning the execu-
tive hearings that have been held before we adjom-n today.
You are talking more freely and giving us more information in a
public hearing than you did in executive hearing, aren't you?
Mr. Hohner. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Isn't that right? I will ask you, you did refuse to
give us answers to certain questions in an executive hearing that you
have answered today, isn't that true?
Mr. Hohner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Have you any questions, Mr. Voorhis?
Mr. Voorhis. No.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Thomas?
Mr. Thomas. No further questions.
Mr. Barker. I would like to ask a question. Mr. Hohner, are you
a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Hohner. No.
Mr. Barker. You are an alien?
Mr. Hohner. I have my first papers.
Mr. Barker. You have yom- first papers?
Mr. Hohner. Yes.
Mr. Barker. That is your second set of first papers; isn't it, Mr.
Hohner?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8323
Afr. HoHXER. Yes.
Mr. Bahker. When did vou lake your first set of papers out?
Mr. HoHNER. 1930.
Mr. Barker. And you went back to Germany after that?
Mr. HoHNER. Yes.
Mr. Barker. You did not apply for your second papers after that?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Barker. When did you take out your second first papers?
Mr. HoHNER. I applied for it in June or July 1939 and 1 received
them early tliis year.
Mr. Barker. Have you registered as an alien under the act recently
passed?
Mr. HoHNER. Not yet.
Mr. Barker. You have not?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Barker. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. That is all. You are excused.
Mr. Starnes. The other witnesses are excused. We will not use
them at this time. They are all at liberty to go.
Mr. Keegan. Thank you very much.
Mr. Barker. Mr. Holmer, when you made this trip to Germany
whom did you go with?
Mr. HoHNER. Nobody.
Mr. Barker. You did not go with anyone?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Barker. You did not go with Geiter?
Mr. HoHNER. No.
Mr. Barker. But you do know Geiter?
Mr. HoHXER. No.
Mr. Barker. You said last night j^ou knew Geiter.
Mr. HoHNER. I explained to you last night I thought you were
saying Geeto.
Mr. Barker. You called him Geiter.
Mr. HoHNER. That is not the same man we are talking about, I am
sure.
Mr. Barker. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Barker. Mr. Ries.
TESTIMONY OF HERMAN A. RIES, OF THE PENNSYLVANIA MOTOR
POLICE
Mr. Starxes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and notliing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Ries. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Barker, I will ask the prehminary questions.
Will you give us your full name?
Mr. Ries. Herman A. Ries.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat is your address?
Mr. Ries. Avondale, Pa.
8324 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Wliat is your profession or vocation?
Mr. RiES. Pennsylvania Motor Police.
Mr. Starnes. You are an American citizen?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You were born in America?
Mr. RiEs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Educated in America?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And live here?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You can speak the German language?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Now, Mr. Barker, you may take the witness.
Mr. Barker. Mr. Ries, you spell your name R-i-e-s?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. Were you called to the office of the commissioner of
the Pennsylvania State police and advised to go to Washington and
report to the Dies committee?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And down in Washington you met Congressman Dies
and Congressman Thomas and Congressman Voorhis?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And you had another trooper from the Pennsylvania
State police with you who is also a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. Born here?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. Of German descent?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. Who can speak German also?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. Now, you and the other Pennsylvania trooper and
myself then proceeded by automobile to northern New Jersey?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. To make an investigation of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. In accordance with instructions from the chairman?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. You were employed during that period as an investi-
gator for the Dies Committee?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And your pay as a Pennsylvania State trooper was
temporarily suspended?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And then we went to Newton, N. J.?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And established contact with the Jersey State
police?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And they provided us with a couple of sets of dead
tags for our automobiles?
Mr. Ries. Yes, sir.
UN-AAIEUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8325
Mr. Barker. And you changed your appearance and went in
hiking clothes?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And so did the otlier man?
Mr. RiEs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And I was a fanner down the road shovehng sand?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. And we proceeded out to the bund camp?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Barker. All right, now take it up when you went in at the
gate — I left you there.
Mr. RiES. On this date that Robert Barker is speaking of, Mr.
Strickler, the other member of the Pennsylvania State police, and I
went to the gate of Camp Nordland, situated at the gate in a small
building where were stationed a group of young German youths.
We approached these young men and introduced ourselves as the —
as vacationists from Pennsylvania.
We conversed with them in German and the one youth by the name
of Geiter disclosed to us that he was sort of suspicious of us on our first
appearance at the gate; that w^e resembled Newton spies. He then
stated to me that since he saw me closer he saw the map of Germany
on my face.
We were then accepted into the camp as honest Germans and were
taken to the restaurant. In German it is called "the Essenplatz."
On our way to the restaurant we were then stopped and introduced to
Adolf Bauer.
We conversed in German and after conversing some time he asked
us if we were willing to contribute a dollar for the welfare of Camp
Nordland. We contributed each a dollar and in turn we received a
small pink paper which was fastened in our shirt.
Mr. Thomas. At that point, have you one of those with you?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Will you give that to the committee?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. That was to indicate you paid a dollar, was it?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. And every one who paid a dollar got one of these
little pink slips and they put the slip in the button hole of the lapel?
Mr. RiES. Of the shirt, yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Did you see many of those slips around indicating that
many people paid a dollar?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir; and Mr. Bauer then informed us that we had
the privilege of coming back into the w^oods where were congregated
some other Gorman people, and where we would be allowed to have a
few glasses of beer since we contributed to the welfare of the camp.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask another question: Was it possible to get
any beer without paying that dollar?
Mr. RiEs. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. You had to pay the dollar in order to get beer?
Mr. RiES. It was explained to us that we were contributing to the
welfare of Camp Nordland.
Mr. Thomas. That is right, but you could not get the beer until you
paid the dollar?
8326 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. RiES. That is right. We entered the restaurant — the Essen-
platz, where were congregated a group of German people all conversing
in German. The songs on the victrola were German. One in par-
ticular I recall was Deutschland Uber Allies. In other words it is
translated literally as "Germany over all."
There were people dancing folk dances and some were dressed in
folk costumes.
We then ordered our supper or dinner at that time in the German
language. Now, this dance hall or the Essenplatz is a large, one story
frame building. It iias a large dance floor surrounded by tables and
chairs on the outside rim of the dance floor. On one side of the dance
floor is a large bar from which beverages, soft drinks and things were
sold. At one end was a kitchen.
Now, in this dance floor surrounding the inner circle of the dance
floor, was a large picture of Adolf Hitler, decorated with the — I think
they caU it the — it is the red, white, and black colors of the German
Nation — I think it is. At the other end of the dance floor was a small
picture of George Washington. In the center of the dance floor
hanging from the ceiling was an American flag.
There was also displayed a smaU card with the swastika emblem
on it.
We were in there a short time and proceeded out to the grounds
where were parked, I estimated, about 300 automobiles, from Penn-
sylvania, New York, and New Jersey mostly. That is from our ob-
servation those three States the cars were from.
We walked around the camp and saw that there were cottages up in
the woods and over near the speaker's stand in the forest was being
erected a large, long building — frame building, which was claimed to
be the boys and girls scout camp. Some of the boys were playing
soccer. A lot of people were in their bathing suits.
We then confronted Mr. Bauer again and asked him when we were
going back to this forest where they had the beer. He informed me
not to speak so loud because Deputy Sheriff Dehart from Newton was
on the premises, and that there were some newspaper men and some
under-cover men trying to get in the entrance. He said he had to go
to help try to keep them from getting in. Mr. Strickler asked him if
he needed any help we would help him.
We then went back into the woods.
Mr. Thomas. May I interrupt? In that dance hall were there any
slogans of any kind?
Mr. RiEs. Yes, sir; I forgot about that. A large sign was on the
inner circle of the dance floor. It was a white sign and I imagine it
was at least 40 or 50 feet long and about 4 or 5 feet wide, and on it was
the German words "Ein Folkstom, Ein Bund, Ein Fuelirer." Liter-
ally translated it means "One Society, One People, and One Leader."
That was a large sign that was in the dance hall.
As we were going back into the woods with Mr. Bauer we were
taken to a long wooden table with a canopy over the top, and at one
end of the table was situated a quarter barrel of beer.
Now, this beer was distributed among the German men and women
seated at this table. In fact there were two tables. One was out in
the open. Mr. Strickler and I seated ourselves among the people.
They acted suspicious at first, due to our strangeness, but after con-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8327
versing some time with the people their suspicions lessened and they
talked to us freely.
Their general conversation was the war that was taking place in
Europe and the situation in the United States. Most of the people,
the majority of them, were pro-Nazi and talked quite considerably of
the great things that had been taking place in Europe being done by
Hitler.
Mr. Thomas. Did they make any comments about the possibility
of Hitler coming over to the Western Hemisphere or any influence
that he might have here?
Mr. RiES. There were no direct words to that eft'ect except the
German Government or Hitler would conquer Europe and the German
people woidd be dominating the world.
Mr. Thomas. Did you also hear comparisons between the German
form of government and our form of government here?
Mr. RiES. They were very much opposed to Roosevelt, and they
were in favor of Lindbergh and Hoover.
Mr. Thomas. Did you also hear that they preferred the German
form of government to our form of government?
Mr. RiES. Their favoritism was leaning to Hitler — his way of
doing.
Mr. Thomas. And was there a man by the name of Geiter among
those people?
Mr. RiES. This gentleman by the name of Geiter took us, prior to
going back to the woods, into^he restaurant. He was a very pas-
sionate-minded pro-Hitler man. He stated to us that he was a sheet-
metal worker and a gymnastic instructor on the side and expressed
to us that physical training was the main thing in wiiming wars. He
stated that he was in Germany m 1936 for 3 months, as I recall, and
during the Olympics.
Mr. Thomas. Did he say where he is employed now as a sheet-
metal worker?
Mr. RiES. No; we did not ask him that because we were just in the
camp a short time and did not want to arouse their suspicions through
questioning.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to ask you this: You said a while ago
that you thought that most of the people were pro-Nazi. Now, I
think you should explain why you think that and on what you base
that statement. I mean we should not leave that hanging up there.
Mr. RiES. If I may use my notes, I can refresh my memory.
Mr. VooRHis. Go ahead. There is no reason you can't do that.
I think we should be specific about what you mean when you say
that.
Mr. RiES. It has been some time, and I have to look at my notes
on that.
Mr. VooRHis. Could you give us again the date when this took
place?
Mr. RiES. June 16, 1940.
Mr. VooRHis. Everybody understands that all people naturally
have a lovalty to their own ancestry and to their own people and to
the place^^from which tliev came, but this business about bemg pro-
Nazi is a different matter because by that we understand an alle-
giance to a particular political movement and form of government.
That is the point I am trying to get straightened out.
8328 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. RiES. From one statement by a gentleman at the table, he
stated Hitler was not trying to conquer the world or to oppress the
people, but to free them, and most of the men at the table welcomed
world domination by Hitler.
Mr. VoooRHis. Did they say that?
Mr. RiES. That was their general discussion. There were no direct
words to that effect. There was a man at the table
Mr. Thomas. But it was evident from the conversation that cer-
tain of them were friendly to Hitler and his Government — it was
evident they were more friendlj'- to Hitler and his Government than
to our Government?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Is that right?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sii*. There was a man seated next to Strickler by
the name of H. Wunderle, who lives in Hoboken, N. J., who had the
floor most of the time. We obtained his name from a subscription of
a ticket or chance he bought for the ladies' auxiliary. They were
chancing off a blanket or something lilve that and Mr. Strickler took
the next chance and that is how we obtained his name. He stated
he was a sailor on a steamship traveling between New York and Pana-
ma. He emphatically stated that the Jews were insects of mankind.
He stated he was well acquainted with the internal sentiment of
Panama, Mexico, and Brazil; that these countries were anti- American
and all for Hitler. He stated that the German people at the present
time in the United States were much stronger than they were prior
to the World War. "They are congregated in a more unified body."
He stated also that he had an employer who was a Jew. In other
words, in plain words, if he was fired because he was a German, he
could make a lot of trouble.
The conversation was that Members of Congress of the United
States and the President were all pro-Jews and were looking out
for the welfare of the rich.
Mr. VooRHis. Just one question with reference to what this man
said about Brazil and Panama, and so on; did he express himself as
being gratified with the situation that he found to exist there?
Mr. RiES. He expressed the feeling that the German people are
getting more thickly populated and their feelings for Hitler and his
doings are increasing — that their sentiments toward his actions are
very strong.
Mr. Wunderle stated also that the time will come when the final
haven for Jews will be in the United States.
As I said before, the men around the table had high regard for
Lindbergh and Hoover.
Mr. VooRHis. How do you mean that?
Mr. RiES. They were talking m regard to the speeches that Lind-
bergh had made, I think a few nights prior to June 16, and also the
work that Hoover had done dming the World War.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean relief work and things lilte that?
Mr. RiES. That is right.
Mr. VooRHis. They approved of that, you mean?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir; and talked to some of the German people who
felt that they would not bother anybody as long as nobody bothered
them; that they wanted to live in the United States and be citizens.
That was mostly the conversation of the more elderly class.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8329
From one person we understood he has been living in the United
States for 40 years.
Air. Thomas. The younger ones were more mihtant in their speech
and con(hict?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What would you say about the younger people in
alliMidance and their attitude?
Mr. KiES. Their .attitude was very passionate^overs of Hitlerism.
They thought he was doing a wonderful thing.
We stayed there for some time. The general conversation was
back and forth on that subject. We left and were given an invitation
to come back the following day. As we left the table tiie men gave
us a salute and the words "Auf Wiedersehen" — "until we see each
other again," and the salute was by raising the hand.
Mr. Striclder and I were in the camp and Mr. Barker was dressed
as a farmer and digging a ditch. He was on the outside. In that
mamier we were able to obtain the license nmnbers of the cars that
entered the camp.
Mr. Thomas. You also visited other camps, did you not?
Mr. RiES. We can back to Camp Nordland the following Sunday,
Mr. Thomas. I mean you went to other camps in the State?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir; we went to the camp on Federal Hill.
Mr. Thomas. And got in there with the same ease and about in the
same manner?
Mr. RiES. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. And Mr. Barker, as I understand, visited still more
places in the State?
Mr. RiEs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Anv further questions?
Mr. Thomas. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
The Chairman. This concludes this phase of the liearmg. The
Chair wishes to make the following statement: That on yesterday
afternoon and last evenmg we held extended executive hearings of the
committee, lasting until midnight. More than a score of witnesses
were heard by the committee in this executive session.
It is noteworth}^ that these witnesses, with one exception, were
aliens or naturalized citizens of German extraction. They were wit-
nesses who were selected as a cross section of hundreds of available
witnesses who had attended the meetings of the German-American
Bund at Camp Nordland. They were owaiers of motor vehicles which
had been discovered at these camps by the investigator and his
assistants, with the assistance of the State officials of the States of
New Jersey and of New York and of Pennsylvania, by which they were
able to trace the o\\aiership of these automobiles.
With one exception every witness readily admitted to attendance
upon the meetings of various character at Camp Nordland. Some
were bund meetings and some were open meetings.
Approximatelv a third of these witnesses were members of the
bund or had been members of the bund. Others were sympathizers.
Quite a few went to the camp out of idle curosity and were certaiidy
innocent of any intentional wrongdoing and professed to have no
sympathy with the bund or its program.
8330 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Without exception every witness who was heard in these executive
sessions was employed in shipyards, munition plants, or industrial
plants with governmental contracts involved in our present national
defense program.
The committee heard some evidence of sabotage in other plants
but not of the nature described in the public hearings yesterday.
The committee has been impressed by the testimony of the witnesses
heard in the executive sessions and has noted with interest the
demeanor and the statements made by witnesses in the open hearing.
The committee readily understands that any national group in this
country who are now citizens of this country but who were born
elsewhere cling to family ties, to the heritage of their race or to the
traditions and background of their former country. That is natural,
and it is not to be criticized.
No one can by merely transporting themselves from one land or
one clime to another forget the land of his fathers or his family or
the traditions of his native land.
Many organizations in this country have been set up by national
or racial groups who have members that have contributed much to
the public welfare in this country and have made good citizens, but
their energies and their talents have been devoted to cultivating
better and more peaceful relations with the other national and racial
strains in this country of ours.
I would like to suggest to some of these sincere but evidently
misguided and misled new citizens of ours, that this comniittee has
judicially determined that the German-American Bund is not an
American organization in its concept nor in its practices. By the
overwhelming weight of the evidence this committee has received,
the bund has been shown to be an agent of a foreign government,
sympathetic with the political philosophy of a foreign government.
There is no pla e in American life for such an organization, and we
trust that these hearings will prove of some benefit to those who
have been misled and have been misguided.
We have not closed our hearings with reference to discoveries made
in this huge metropolitan area of Newark and New York City and
in this thickly populated section of our country. It may be that we
will hold hearings here or in New York or in Washington on certain
phases of matters already brought before the committee.
We hope there will be no hysteria engendered by any group in this
country at this time and that no cult nor class nor prejudice will be
engendered. There is no time for that now. This is the time for
unity and regardless of what the organization is if it is a legal organ-
ization, a lawful organization, and if you feel you have a right to join
it, and if you do join it, I hope you will direct all your energies
toward a better understanding of American ideals and American
principles of government and that you will give unswerving loyalty,
whether you are a native or naturalized, to the constitutional, repre-
sentative democracy that we enjoy.
We will stand adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 1 o'clock the hearing was adjourned.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEEICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
OCTOBER 4, 1940
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee
TO Investigate Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
The subconiinittee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman),
presiding.
Mr. Starnes. The subcommittee appointed by the chairman to
investigate im-American and subversive activities and to hold hearings
in the Newark-New York area, having held sessions in Newark earlier
in the week and having adjourned the hearing to this date here in
Washington is now called to order for the purpose of taking additional
testimony.
Let the record show the subcommittee is composed of Mr. Voorhis,
Mr. Mason, and the chairman.
Dr. Matthews, will you call your first witness.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner.
TESTIMONY OF RICHARD W. WERNER, FORMER MEMBER OF THE
0. D. OF THE GERMAN-AMERICAN BUND
Mr. Starnes. Hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony you wJJl give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Werner. I do.
Mr. Starnes. After I put the preliminary questions. Dr. Matthews,
1 shall ask you to take charge of the examination.
State your full name.
Mr. Werner Aly full name is Richard W. Werner.
Mr. Starnes. \Miat is your address?
Mr. AVerner. 302 East Ninety-fifth Street, New York.
Mr. Starnes. AATiat has been yom- profession or occupation?
Mr. Werner. In this country I worked as a chef.
Mr. Starnes. As a chef?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. WTiat did you do in Germany?
Mr. Werner. I was an office clerk.
Mr. Starnes. Where were you born?
Mr. Werner. In Germany.
Mr. Starnes. When were vou born?
Mr. Werner. December 26, 1903.
Mr. Starnes. When did you first come to the United States?
8331
8332
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Wernek. In the year of 1926.
Mr. Starnes. Have you been back to Germany since you came to
the United States the first time?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I worked as a crew member on the North
German Lloyd boat Berlin.
Mr. Starnes. How long did you stay in Germany when you went
back?
In 1926 I worked on a boat and we traveled back
I had my visa and then I stayed here in February
Mr. Werner.
and forth until
1927 for good.
Mr. Starnes.
Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Werner.
.Mr. Starnes.
Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
military school.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
Starnes,
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
You entered the country legally and lawfidly?
Yes; I did.
Have you ever become naturalized?
No.
You are still an alien?
That is right.
Did vou go to school in Germany?
Yes."^
What was the extent of your education?
I went 4 years in public school and 4 years
m
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
been a member of the
Did you serve any in the German Army?
I served in the Free Corps.
The so-called Free Corps?
That is right; after the war.
How long?
For 14 months.
Ai-e you now or have you
German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. I was a member of the German-American Bund.
Mr. Starnes. You have been a member of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
Starnes.
Werner.
Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Werner.
Starnes
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
M]
Yes, sir.
When did you join?
In June 1938.
How long were you a member of the bund?
Up to February this year.
February of 1940?
That is right.
Dr. Matthews, will you take charge of the witness
and conduct the examination from this point?
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, did you attend a military academy
before you came to the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat was the name of that school?
Mr. Werner. Imperial German Military Academy in Hanover.
Mr. Matthews. Hanover, Germany?
Mr. Werner. Hanover, Germany; yes.
Mr. Matthews. How long were you a student there?
Mr. Werner. Four years.
Mr. Matthews. When did you leave the school?
Mr. Werner. November 9, 1918.
Mr. Matthews. That was 2 days before the Armistice was signed;
is that correct?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8333
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was the school closed at that time?
Mr. Werner. Yes; the school was closed.
Mr, Matthews. Was the school closed as a result of the general
confusion and revolutionary movement in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Where did you go immediately after the closing
of the school?
Mr. Werner. I started to work for a newspaper in my home town.
Mr. Matthews. You took up newspaper work?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr, Matthews. How long did you engage in newspaper work in
Germany altogether?
Mr. Werner. Three years.
Mr. Matthews. You were also a member of the Free Corps?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And what other occupations did you engage in
while you were still in Germany?
Mr. Werner. I worked as a bookkeeper and correspondent in a
cigar and cigarette factory in Frankfurt-am-Main. After that I
worked in the office of the North German Lloyd and from there I
started to work on the boat as a waiter.
]Mr. Matthews. Did you work in the offices of the North German
Lloyd in Bremerhaven?
Mr. Werner. In Bremerhaven, yes.
Mr. ^L\TTHEWS. Was Bremerhaven your home?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And you came to the United States in 1927?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. ^L\TTHEWS. To reside here permanently; is that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And you have resided in the United States ever
since that date?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I did.
Mr. Matthews. \\Tien you arrived in the United States in Feb-
ruary 1927
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr, Matthews, Did you obtain employment at once?
Mr, Werner. Yes, the following day.
Mr. Matthews. Within 24 hours of your arrival in the United
States you received employment?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. What was the principal motive in your desiring
to reside in the United States?
Mr. Werner. The times over in Germany were so hard and the
living conditions were so bad over there there was hardly any other
choice but to leave Germany and look for another country where
living conditions and working conditions were better.
Mr. Matthews. Do vou know whether or not thousands of Ger-
mans were migrating to the United States or attempting to migrate
to the United States at that time, due to the adverse economic con-
ditions in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; many, many thousands.
Mr. ^L\TTHEWS. And you were one who came?
8334 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. One of them.
Mr. Matthews. Who came with that motive?
Air. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And anticipating other questions, let me ask
you this: From the time of your arrival in the United States when
you received employment within 24 hours of your landing here, were
you continuously employed up until this year?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Air. Matthews. Were you ever without employment for a period
of more than 5 days during those 12 years?
Mr. Werner. No, never.
Mr. Matthews. For a period of 12 years then, you foimd that
you were able to get a job and if you for any reason left a position
you had no serious diihcidty in getting another one?
Mr. Werner. That is right. I never had any difficulty.
Air. Voorhis. May I interject? Even during the depression that
was still true?
Mr. Werner. That is right; I worked right through it.
Mr. AIatthews. During 1930 and 1931?
Mr. Werner. I always worked.
Air. AIatthews. And your employment was that of a chef?
Air. Werner. That is right.
Air. AIatthews. In restaurants and dining cars?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Air. AIatthews. Did you know of an instance wherem a German
ship arrived at the port of Houston, Tex.?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. AIatthews. In which a large number of the crew jumped ship
in order to remain in the United vStates?
Air. Werner. Yes; that happened in 1923.
Air. Matthews. How many members were there of the crew of
that particular ship?
Mr. Werner. Fifty- two.
Air. AIatthews. Do you remember the name of the ship?
Air. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. AIatthews. Was it the Minclen?
Mr. Werner. The Minden; that is right.
Mr. AIatthews. Of the 52 members of the crew how many jumped
ship at Houston, Tex.?
Mr. Werner. Forty-eight.
Mr. Matthews. Did that include the captain of the ship?
Air. Werner. The captain and the chief engineer.
Mr. AIatthews. The captain and the chief engineer were among
those who jumped ship in the United States?
Air. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. How did you know of that incident?
Air. Werner. From certain information in my home to^vn. My
job was to prepare wage lists for the crew members in the office in
my home town. As soon as a boat leaves a foreign harbor we have
to make an exact list who is on the boat and who jumps the boat.
Mr. Matthews. And in your capacity as an employee in the
offices of the North German Lloyd you personally dealt with this
question of
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN TROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8335
Mr. Matthews. FortA^-eight mcinbors of this crew jumping the
ship in Houston, Tex.?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. AVhcn was that?
Mr. Matthews. In 1923. The point, Congressman Voorhis, is
that Mr. Werner was one of the thousands who were getting out of
Germany because of adverse economic conditions and going to the
United States because they believed it was a land of opportunity; is
that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Your first employment then was that of a chef
when jT^ou landed ui the United States, was it?
Mr. Werner. No; as a bus boy.
Mr. Matthews. And how long did you engage in that work?
Mr. Werner. About 4 weeks.
Mr. Matthews. And what was your next job?
Mr. Werner. Kitchen man.
Mr. Matthews. And your next job?
Mr. Werner. Waiter.
Mr. Matthews. And after that?
Mr. Werner. Chef.
Mr. Matthews. Chef?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In other words you were promoted from kitchen
boy to chef?
Nir. Werner. Yes; I promoted myself.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever engage m any other kmd of work
in this country, remunerative employment, other than that of working
in restaurants and dming cars?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. Were j^ou ever a member of the Friends of New
Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. \Mien did you jom the Friends of New Germany?
Mr. Werner. 1933 or 1934; I am not quite sure.
Mr. Matthews. And how long did you remain a member of the
Friends of New Germany?
Mr. Werner. For about 8 months.
Mr. Matthews. Can you state briefly why you joined the Friends
of New Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I can.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please do so?
Mr. Werner. Yes. There was a meeting in New York in the Turn-
verein Hall on Eighty-fifth Street and they gave out cjuite a few leaf-
lets and propaganda and so I decided I wanted to go over there. I
took my wife and we both went over there. One of the storm troopers
I know^ slightly. He met me and talked to me and asked if I don't
like to join and so on. There were fellows in uniform. At that time
they wore white shirts and boots, riding boots. I was raised in a
military school and I guess it came over me again and I joined the
Friends of New Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Who was the leader of the Friends of New Ger-
many at that time?
62626— 11— vol. 14 12
8336 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. There was a Fritz Gissibl and right after that was
Walter.
Mr. Matthews. Walter?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Spanknoebel?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I did.
Mr. Matthews. Was he one of the leaders of the Friends of New
Germany at that time?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that is rig-ht.
Mr. Matthews. Did you join the storm troopers in the Friends of
New Germany or were you just a member of the organization?
Mr. Werner. Just a member of the organization.
Mr. Matthews. You did not join the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. No ; I did not.
Mr. Matthews. Were the storm troopers in the Friends of New
Germany known as O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Are the initials "O. D." the abbreviation for the
words Ordnungs Dienst?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. You spoke of going to a meeting of the Friends of
New Germany in the Turnverein Hall. Is that a German center?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In New York City?
Mr. Werner. Yes; Eighty-fifth Street and Lexington Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. Does Turnverein mean gymnastic society?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you drop out of the Fiiends of New Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Of your own volition?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Can you state briefly why you dropped out of the
Friends of New Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes. I had a chance to buy a house in New Jersey
and I liked the country life. I like a little farming, so I bought the
house and I moved out to Jersey and forgot all about it.
Mr. Matthews. You mean you had earned enough money as a
kitchen employee, a waiter, and a chef from the time of your arrival
in this country to buy a house?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Over what period of years was that, from the
time of your arrival here, until you were able to buy your own home?
Mr. Werner. I will say about 7 years.
Mr. Matthews. And in the course of 7 years you had saved
enough money from your wages to buy a house in New Jersey?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Where in New Jersey did you buy that home?
Mr. Werner. In Spottswood.
Mr. Matthews. Spottswood, N. J.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. How long did you live in New Jersey?
Mr. Werner. About 14 or 15 months.
Mr. Matthews. And then did you go back to New York to live?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And to work?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8337
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. When did you join the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. In June 1938.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a membership book of the German-
American Bund, No. 18344, and ask you if j^ou can identify that as
your own membership book in tlie German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my card.
Mr. Matthews. By whom was this card issued?
Mr. Werner. B}' James Wheeler Hill.
Mr. Matthews. Is his name signed at the bottom of tlie card?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And what is the date of the issuance of this card?
Mr. Werner. 11th of July 1938.
Mr. Matthews. Is the name of Fritz Kulm affixed to this card as
the bundesleitung
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Or on behalf of the bundesleitung?
Mr. Werner. That is right. He was the leader of the bund.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Fritz Kuhn personally?
Mr. Werner. Yes, veiy good.
Mr. Matthews. Did 3^ou know him well enough to address him
by the name of "Fritz"?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Does this book show that your membership dues
were paid up?
Mr. Werner. That is right; paid up to December 1939.
Mr. Matthews. The stamps are affixed to your book which indi-
cate that you had paid your dues, is that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Did you also join the O. D. division of the Ger-
man-American Bund or the storm troopers?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Did you join the storm troopers at the same time
you joined the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; the same time.
Mr. Matthews. Did you remain a member of the O. D. or the
storm troopers from that time until you left the bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. I show you an arm band with the letters "O. D."
on it and the insignia of the German-American Bund and ask you if
you can identifj^ that as your own arm band?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my own arm band.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the insignia of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. The swastika superimposed on the rising sun?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Above the letters A. V.?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Are these the trousers and the belt which you
used as a member of the storm troopers of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my trousers and my belt.
Mr. Matthews. A pair of black trousers and a Sam Brown belt.''
8338 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is this the shirt which you used as a member of
the storm troopers of the German- American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; it is my shirt.
Mr. Matthews. Is this the black tie which you used as a part of
your uniform?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my tie.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify this as the cap which you used
as a part of your uniform in the storm troopers?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my cap.
Mr. Matthews. What is this flag, Mr. Werner?
Mr. Werner. This is the bund flag.
Mr. Matthews. Was that your own flag?
Mr. Werner. Yes; this is my own flag. I bought it in Camp
Siegfried.
Mr. Matthews. You bought this flag in Camp Siegfried?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. On Long Island?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthew^s. What did you use that for?
Mr. Werner. Put it up in my home — in my apartment.
Mr. Starnes. Wliat does the "A. V." stand for?
Mr. Werner. Amerikadeutscher Volksbund.
Mr. Matthews. I show you another strap, Mr. Werner, and ask
you if you can identify that as a part of your uniform as a Storm
trooper in the German- American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes ; this is my strap for my belt.
Mr. Matthews. Did that go over your shoulder?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And fasten at the ends of the belt?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you receive any special instructions at any
time in the use of this belt?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what they were?
Mr. Werner. In case of fighting we took this belt off from our
shoulders and slung it around our arm and used it as a powerful
weapon (demonstrating) .
Mr. Matthews. Was that a specific instruction which members of
the O. D. received?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In the use of this strap?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. For purposes of fighting?
Air. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. For fighting where?
Mr. Werner. On streets and in meeting halls.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not some of the members
of the storm troopers had metal brads put into this strap?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. To make a more effective weapon?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever see any of these straps used in
combat?
I'X-A.MKIUCAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8339
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. On the streets?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In New York?
Mr. Werner. Yes, on the strei^ts and in halls.
Mr. Matthews. What particular occasions were there when these
straps w^ere used for fighting?
Mr. Werner. There was one in a hall where w^e had a meeting on
Eighty-sixth Street and some Jewish war veterans came up and tried
to break up the meeting or tried to make some noise anyhow, and
some of my former friends took off their straps and hit them with them.
Mr. Matthews. Did you receive any other instructions in how to
fight other than those which had to do with the use of this strap?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I w^as trained in jiu jitsu.
Mr. Matthews. Were all of the members of the storm troopers
trained in jiu jitsu?
Mr. Werner. Ninety percent.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have regular training in jiu jitsu?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I had.
Mr. Matthews. Was there a special night of the week set apart
for such training?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall what night of the week that was?
Mr. Werner. Wednesday night.
Mr. Matthews. Every Wednesday night through the year?
Mr. Werner. During the wintertime.
Mr. Matthews. During the wintertime only?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
]Mr. Matthews. Every Wednesday night?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Members of the storm troopers w^ere instructed in
the use of jiu jitsu?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthew^s. For what purpose was that instruction to be used?
Mr. Werner. To learn and to use as many tricks as possible in case
of fighting.
Mr. Matthews. Were there any other weapons or objects used as
w^eapons in which you received instructions for purposes of fighting?
^Ir. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Did you have a flaslilight as a part of your equip-
ment?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I had. We used that as a weapon too.
Mr. Matthews. Were you trained to use the flashlight as a weapon
or were you just told
Mr. Werner. We w^ere just told. I don't think we had any need
for training for that.
Mr. Matthews. Was this a large flashlight?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. How large?
]Mr. Werner. Fourteen inches.
Mr. Matthews. Fourteen inches long?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Were the fla.shlights actually used in fights that
took place during your membership in the storm troopers?
8340 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Yes; it was.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever receive any other instructions that
had to do with physical violence?
Mr. Werner. In the summertime in Camp Siegfried we were
trained in shooting rifles.
Mr. Matthews. You had rifle practice?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Who supplied the rifles for that practice?
Mr. Werner. The O. D.
Mr. Matthews. Did you personally have your rifle or were they
stored somewhere in the custody of the bund?
Mr. W^ERNER. They were stored in the custody of the bund — in
the custody of the O. D.
Mr. Matthews. Of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. They were brought to Camp Siegfried in the
summertime and you were trained in the use of them?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a skilled marksman?
Mr. Werner. I was pretty good.
Mr. Matthews. Did you receive training in Germany in marks-
jnanship?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have training in other ways with a view
toward eventually fighting?
Mr. Werner. Yes; we were sent out nights for some kind of war
games out in Flushing MeadoAvs near the Worlds Fair and had mili-
tary drills on every Monday night when we had our so-called appell
night.
Mr. Matthews. What is an appell night?
Mr. Werner. In the army language it means some kind of — you
have to be there on the place on a certain time and you have to do
whatever you are told to do.
Mr. Matthews. In other words it was a compulsorj^ meeting of
the Storm Troopers, was it?
Mr. Werner. I don't want to say exactly compulsory but it was
almost compulsory.
Mr. Matthews. Well, did you ever know of any occasion when
some member of the bund had failed, or some member of the Storm
Troopers had failed to attend one of these meetings and as a result
got into trouble over it?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what that incident was?
Mr. Werner. There was one certain O. D. man — he did not show
up for two or three nights and his group leader asked him why he
didn't come and he had the excuse that coidd not stand up. He
said he was working but he was not working. Somebody else saw
liim, I guess, and he had to stand in front of the line and the O. D.
leader was hollering at him and told him "we are soldiers over here
and we have to do our duty; that is why 3^ou became a member of
the O. D. It is supposed to be an honor and if you can't do that it
is better that you drop out altogether; it is much better to have ten
good and faithful men than one hundred unfaithful men."
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8341
Mr. Starnes. May 1 ask a question at that point, Doctor. You
said a moment ago you had mihtary drills in Flushing Meadows?
Mr. Wekner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. What kind of drill was that? Was that extended
order drill, battle formations and patrols and that type of drill or just
mass military drill for disciplinary purposes?
Mr. AVerner. We had about 300 O. D. men that certain night and
we were split in two groups, 150 men each and each group split up and
some were in patrols of from 5 to 10. The first unit marched out
about an hour ahead of us and there was about a two and a half mile
square that they had to hide themselves in and we were sent after
them to find them.
Mr. Starnes. In other words they were divided into two groups, one
group going out in advance to take up certain positions?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. In military formation?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And then the second group proceeded out in military
formation to gain contact with tliis group?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Regular military drills or maneuvers?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. That is all.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, was this rifle practice engaged in,
according to anything that you ever heard, simply for the purpose of
knowing how to use firearms for hunting?
Mr. Werner. No; not for hunthig.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat did you understand the purpose of this
rifle practice to be?
Mr. Werner. At the end of each summer there was some kind of a
tournament and in this tournament there was rifle practice and the
best shots of each unit, about twelve men, were specially trained to
try to win a prize for their unit.
Mr. Matthews. Why were j^ou trained in rifle practice? Was
there ever anything said about the coming of a tune when there would
be violent uprisings that would call for the use of firearms?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. What was that occasion known as when this up-
rising would take place?
Mr. Werner. This was in Turnverein Hall in Astoria. We had a
Bezirk meeting — that means three units like Manhattan, Astoria
and Bronx.
Mr. Matthews. That is B-e-z-i-r-k, is it?
Mr. Werner. B-e-z-i-r-k, that is right.
Mr. Starnes. Did the rifle practice that you had play a part in
the military drills — was that coordinated?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; it w^as.
Mr. Starnes. Did they tell you why it was necessary to have these
night maneuvers of a military nature? Were they in preparation for
any particular event?
Mr. Werner. Our leaders told us many, many times that we have
to be prepared — we have to be prepared or we have to be fit for a
certain day; when that certain day is coming that w^e know how to
behave ourselves and so we know what to do on that day.
8342 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. They spoke of "That Day" or "The Day" that was
coming?
Mr. Werner. Yes; "The Day."
Mr. Starnes. Now, what did you understand from their instruc-
tions and from the training that was given you, what did you under-
stand that "that day" would mean?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes, Or what did it mean?
Mr. Werner. The overthrow of this Government and the estab-
hshing of a government hke they have in Germany.
Mr. Starnes. That was "the day" for which they told you and
other O. D. men were preparing?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And that you should train yourselves for it and fit
yourselves for it?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. For "the day" when National Socialism would super-
cede this from of Government?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You may go ahead. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, you were not a citizen of the United
States during that entire time, were you?
Mr. VooRHis. Before you start on that I want to ask one question.
I want to ask Mr. Werner if he knows where the rifles were obtained
that were used by the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. These rifles we used in Camp Siegfried were in the
possession of the O. D. men for many years.
Mr. VooRHis. Where did they get them, do you know?
Mr. Werner. No, I don't know.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall any particular individual O. D.
member who had the custody of these guns?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What was his name?
Mr. Werner. Josef Resell.
Mr. Matthews. Is that spelled R-e-s-c-h?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is he stiU a member of the O. D.?
Mr, Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. You know of your own personal knowledge that
he was a member of the O. D. up to last February, at least, is that
correct?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And you have reason to believe he is still a
member?
Mr. Werner. He is still a member.
Mr. Matthews. Of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Now, during the entire time that you were a
member of the storm troopers receiving training looking toward
eventual violent uprisings, and before that to the use of violence on
the streets and in the halls, you were not a citizen of the United States,
is that correct?
Mr. Werner. I was not a citizen, no.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8343
Mr. Matthews. Did you know any other members of the (). D.
who wore not eitizens of the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I do.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, Fritz Kuhn testified before this
committee that tlie German-American Bund at a certain time was
ordered to remove from its rolls all persons who were not citizens of
the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I remember that.
Mr. Matthews. Was that testimony true?
Mr. Werner. No; the testimony was not true.
Mr. Matthews. Did you read about it in the papers at the time
Mr. Kuhn testified here?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is it your statement that the German- American
Bmid did not do anything to remove from its membership rolls those
who were not citizens of the United States?
Mr. Werner. The bund never did any such thing.
Mr. IMatthews. Was there any discussion of this subject in Bund
circles or m the O. D. at the time that Fritz Kuhn testified before this
committee?
Air. Werner. Yes, sir; there was.
Mr. Matthews. What was said about it?
Mr. Werner. "Just forget about it."
Mr. Matthews. In other words did the members of the Bund and
the O. D. understand that Mr. Kuhn was testifying falsely on this
question before this committee?
Mr. Werner. Yes; everybody knew about it.
Mr. Matthews. And were you ever told in anyway whatsoever it
woidd be advisable for you to get out of the Bund because you were
not a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Werner. Nobody ever said any such thing to me or anybody
else who was not a citizen.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of a single instance in which anyone
resigned from the Bund or from the O. D. because he was not a
citizen of the United States?
Air. Werner. No.
Air. AIatthews. You never heard of such an incident?
Air. Werner. I never heard of it.
Air. AIatthews. And you can state that the officials of the Bund
never took any steps whatsoever to remove from their rolls those who
were not citizens of the United States?
Air. Werner. That is right. Nobody ever took any steps.
Air. Starnes. Dr. AIatthews, that is rather important testimony.
You say you know of a number of other O. D. who are not citizens?
Mr, Werner. That is right.
Air. Starnes. Approximately how many would you say there are
who are members of the bund and O. D. who are not citizens of the
United States? What is your estimate of the percentage of the O. D.
men that you personally knew who were not citizens?
Air. Werner. I will say about twenty-five percent of the O. D.
men are not citizens.
Air. Starnes. You know that of your own personal kiiowledge
after having been in personal contact with them?
Air. Werner. Yes, sir.
8344 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. That is despite the testimony of Mr. Kuhn last year?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And Mr. Kunze and Mr. Klapprott of this week?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. In which they stated no ahens were members of the
German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Or of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any knowledge with respect to the
membership of the bund itself on this question? You have testified
that about 25 percent of the members of the O. D.
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. AIatthews. — were not citizens?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did that same general percentage prevail through
the membership of the bund itself?
Mr. Werner. To my knowledge, yes; it might even be higher.
Mr. Matthews. Approximately how many members of the bund
were there in the New York area where you held your membership?
Mr. Werner. In the Manhattan area?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. I am speaking of the bund now and not the O. D.
Mr. Werner. Up to February 1940 there were in Manhattan; 288
members left.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about the membership of
the bund in the districts that surround New York, including New
York? I mean by that the Bronx, Astoria, New Jersey, and the
eastern seaboard district?
Mr. Werner. I could not say exactly the number of them but the
way they were talking I would say between eight and ten thousand.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever see any membership records of the
bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I did.
Mr. Matthews. In what form were those records?
Mr. Werner. They asked for volunteers who would like to work
in the office in the bund — the bund office and who knew how to use
a typewriter. I volunteered and that was the occasion I saw some
records of the membership records of the bund.
Mr. Matthews. Were those membership records cards?
Mr. Werner. They were cards; yes.
Mr, Matthews. Four by six cards, approximately, would you say?
Mr. Werner. Yes, something like that.
Mr. Matthews. And you typed names from those cards onto
sheets of paper?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. So you did see membership cards of the German-
American Bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. From that first-hand contact with the member-
ship records did you obtain any idea as to the number of members
in the New York area or in the bund at large?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8345
Mr. Werner. All I saw was membership cards from the New York
area.
Mr. Matthews. But it is your testimony that twenty-five percent
or more
Mr. Werner. Or more; yes.
Mr. Matthews. — of tlie members of the German-American Bund
as distinguished from the O. D. section of it, were not citizens of the
I'Tiilod States?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a man by the name of Heintz
Tissen?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I know him very well.
Mr. Matthews. His last name is spelled Tissen?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was he a member of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was.
Mr. Matthews. Was he also a member of the storm troopers?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he was a citizen
of the United States?
Mr. Werner. He is not a citizen.
Mr. Matthews. Are you positive that he is not a citizen?
Mr. Werner. Very positive, yes.
IMr. Matthews. Is he still a member of the 0. D.?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not his wife was a mem-
ber of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. His wife is a member of the German-American
Bund.
Mr. Matthews. Is she also an alien?
Mr. W^ERNER. She is an alien.
Mr. Matthews. W^ere they both born in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Heintz Tissen was
ever a member of the National Guard of the United States?
Mr. Werner. He was a member of the National Guard.
Mr. Matthews. Where? In New York?
Mr. Werner. In New York, yes. As much as I know it was the
seventy-first regiment.
Mr. ^Matthews. Your recollection is that he was a member of the
seventy-first regiment of the National Guard of New York?
jMr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And he was not a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Werner. He was not a citizen and he is not a citizen today.
Mr. Matthews. He is not a citizen today and he is still a member
of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Ernst Sotzek?
Mr. Werner. He is one of the leaders; the second highest in
command. .
Mr. Matthews. He is the second highest in command of the O. D. .
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. His name is spelled S-o-t-z-e-k?
3346 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a Max Rapp?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I do know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a citizen of the
United States?
Mr. Werner. To my knowledge he is an ahen ; he is not a citizen.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Henry Fluegge?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a citizen of the
United States?
Mr. Werner. He is not a citizen.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he entered the
United States illegally?
Mr. Werner. He entered the United States illegally, yes.
Mr. Matthews. What year did he enter the United States
illegally?
Mr. Werner. To my knowledge 1923 or 1924.
Mr. Matthews. And he is today a member of the German-Ameri-
can Bund and the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right. He used to be a former leader of the
O. D. in the Friends of New Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a Mr. George Frank?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I do know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a citizen of the
United States?
Mr. Werner. I am not quite sure about George Frank but to my
knowledge he is an alien.
Mr. Matthews. It is your best belief that George Frank is an
alien?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Is he a member of the O. D. of the German-
American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Werner Ullrich?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I do know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a citizen of the
United States?
Mr. Werner. He is an alien.
Mr. Matthews. Is he also a member of the O. D. of the German-
American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; he is a group leader.
Mr. Matthews. A group leader?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In what unit?
Mr. Werner. In the unit of Manhattan.
Mr. Matthews. How many members are there in a group in the
O. D.?
Mr. Werner. Eight members in a group and one group leader.
Mr. Matthews. And there are three groups in a unit; is that
correct?
Mr. Werner. Three groups in a unit, yes.
Mr. Matthews. And Werner Ullrich was a group leader of the
O. D. in Manhattan?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES g347
Mr. Matthews. Do you laiow Willielm Schelegel?
Mr. Werner. Yes; 1 know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do vou know whether or not he is a citizen of
the United States?
Mr. Werner. No; he is an ahen.
Mr. Matthews. He is also an alien?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr, Matthews. Is he also a member of the German-American
Bund and of its O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right, yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Ado Bolilken?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I know liim.
Jvlr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a citizen of
the United States?
Mr. Werner. He is an alien.
^Ir. Matthews. Is he also a member of the O. D. of the German-
American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Mrs. Hans Zimmerman?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I laiow her.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not she was an alien?
Mr. Werner. She was an alien.
Mr. Matthews. She was a member of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, she was.
Mr. Matthews. It is your testimony then, Mr. Werner, that you
personally know members of the O. D. who are still members of the
O. D. and who are not citizens of the United States?
Mr. Werner. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And these persons are receiving training and have
been receiving training for the use of violence at the present time,
when there are not conflicts between members of the German- American
Bund and citizens of the United States, and also anticipating the
coming of "The Day"?
Mr. W^ERNER. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever hear any member of the German-
American Bund, in particular, speak of the time when "blood will
flow in the streets of the United States"?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Wfll your please tell who that was?
Mr. Werner. It was the O. D. leader for the eastern district,
Herman vSchwartzmann.
Mr. Matthews. When was it he made the statement "blood will
flow in the streets of the United States"?
Mr. Werner. That was in 1989 in Astoria in the Turn Hall to
one of our big meetings, a meeting just for the O. D.'s.
Mr. Matthews. He made that statement at a big meeting of the
O. D.'s?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; standing in front of all of us. There were
about 300 O. D. men and he made that statement.
Mr. Matthews. Were they his exact words?
Mr. Werner. Exactly his words.
Mr. Matthews. "Blood will flow in the streets of the United
States"?
§348 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And what did you understand by that?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. At what time?
Mr. Werner. Just for "That Day," for 'The Day."
Mr. Matthews. The coming of 'The Day"?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. When there wouhl be a revolutionary overthrow
of the existing form of government in the United States?
Mr. Werner. That is right; when they marched through the
streets and go down to Wall Street and to some other places.
Mr. Matthews. Why were you going to Wall Street? Was there
anything said about going to Wall Street in particular on the occasion
of this revolution?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; to get some big bankers.
Mr. Matthews. What was to be done with the big bankers?
Mr. Werner. Hang them up on the next tree or the next post on
the street.
Mr. Matthews. Statements were made to that effect?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Or in that language?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. At meetings of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. That when "The Day" came or when "The Day"
arrived the O. D. would have the responsibility of going down to
Wall Street among other places?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And hanging big bankers?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. At that point, Doctor, we speak here of "The Day."
Who was to bring about that day? In other words who was going to
bring about the revolution? Who was going to cause it?
Mr. Werner. When that word came from the highest leader,
I imagine.
Mr. Starnes. When the word came from the highest leader?
Mr. Werner. In the bund or from the National Socialist Party.
Mr. Starnes. And who is that?
Mr. Werner. The highest leader from the bund or National
Socialist Party is Adolf Hitler.
Mr. Starnes. That is when "The Day" would come?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. When he gave the word?
Mr. Werner. Wlien he gave the word, yes.
Mr. Starnes. In other words this was to be a revolutionary move-
ment that would be dictated by the highest leader?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. "WHiio did not live in this country?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And the bund itself would be a part of the revolu-
tionary movement?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And the storm troopers would play a vital part in
that because of their training?
UX-AMEliK AN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES ^349
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And their fitness?
Mr. Werner. That is riglit.
Mr. Starnes. Physical and mental?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. iVnd as a result of those things "blood would How
in the streets of the United States"?
Mr. Werner. That is riglit.
Mr. Starnes. And tliis attack on Wall Street was to be an attack
on capitalism?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. To destroy capitalism and substitute therefor
national socialism?
Air. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. That is what you were told would come about?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. In this connection, Mr. Werner, did the names of
specific individual bankers come up?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Wlio were they?
Mr. Werner. There was Morgan, Schiff, and Kulm & Loeb.
Mr. Matthews. These men were named as bankers who would be
the objects of the violence of the O. D. when "The Day" came?
Mr. Werner. That is right, because they were against us — working
against us and so forth.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, I show you a photograph and ask
you to describe that photograph briefly?
(Handing photograph to the witness.)
What is that a picture of?
Mr. Werner. This is a picture of O. D. members from Bezirk, New
York.
Mr. Matthews. Did that include Manhattan, the Bronx, and
Astoria?
Mr. Werner. That is right, yes.
Mr. Matthews. This is a picture of the members of the O. D. from
Manhattan, the Bronx, and Astoria?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know most of the individuals whose
faces appear in that photograph?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I know most of them; about half of them.
Mr. Matthews. Can you find yourself in that photograph?
Mr. Werner. Yes; right here, carrying the flag [indicating].
Mr. Matthews. You are at the end of the right hand top row; is
that right?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Or at the end of the top row; the right-hand end?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now, I ask you if you can identify on that picture
Heintz Tissen?
Mr. Werner. Yes, here he is [indicating].
Mr. Matthews, Heintz Tissen is in the second row and the eighth
man from the right-hand end of the row?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. AIatthews. Is that correct?
8350 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify Max Rapp on that photograph?
Mr. Werner. Yes, here [indicating].
Mr. Matthews. Max Rapp is in the first row of those seated?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Or the second row of the picture and the sixth man
from the left-hand end of the row; is that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Now, can you fuid Henry Fhiegge on that photo-
graph?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. I also would like for you to find the others, the
ones you have named as aliens : Werner Ullrich, Wilhelm Schelegel
and Ado Bohlken, whichever one you find first will you please point
out?
Mr. Werner. Henry Fluegge was not present on that occasion, I
don't think.
Mr. Matthews. You have not found him?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, I want to ask one more question. I
asked you a series of questions awhile ago about "The Day" and the
preparations you were making for "The Day."
Mr, Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. The military training and night drills that you had?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And the instructions that vou had as to what you
would do on "That Day"?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. And when "That Day" arrived "blood would flow
in the streets," and so forth. Now, that occurred in the New York
area, did it not?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. These drills occurred in the New York area and
these meetings were held in that area?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And these conversations, or speeches, or statements
were made to members of the O. D. of the bund in the New York
area and it was all while you were a member of the bund, a paid-up
member of the bund and also a member of the O. D. yourself?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And you are speaking of actual, personal knowledge
and contacts there?
Mr. Werner. I do.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Matthews. Now are you able to identify Ullrich or Schelegel
or Bohlken on that photograph?
Mr. Werner. This is Schelegel here [indicating].
Mr. Matthews. You identify as Wilhelm Schelegel a man in the
third row from the top of the picture, the eighth man from the right
end?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Of the row?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Now, have you found Ullrich or Bohlken?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8Sd1
Mr. Werner, niricli and Bohlkon are not in the picture.
Mr. Matthews. Ullrich and Bolilken are not in this picture?
Mr. Werner. No. These are not all the members. There were
some missing — there were many more.
Mr. Matthews. There were members absent on this particular
occasion?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. I ask this be marked for identification as exhibit
No. 1.
Mr. Starnes. It will be marked exhibit 1 and made a part of the
record.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Werner Exhibit 1")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, did you know a member of the Ger-
man-American Bund by the name of Schellenberger?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I do.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall what Schellenberger's first name is?
Mr. Werner. No, I' don't recall liis right first name. To my
best of knowledge it is Bruno but I am not quite sure.
Mr. Matthew^s. You knew him as Schellenberger?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; as Schellenberger.
Mr. Matthews. And you have a vague recollection his first name
is Bruno?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. He was a member of the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was.
Mr. Matthews. Is he a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Was he a member of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. He is a member of the O. D., yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is now in the
United States Army?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you loiow where he is at the present time in
the United States Army?
Mr. Werner. Fort Dix.
Mr. Matthews. He is at Fort Dix?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. That is in New York State?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. At Fort Dix?
Mr. Werner. Yes, Fort DLx.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know him personally?
Mr. Werner. Yes, I do.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any photographs of him or any other
method of identification?
Mr. Werner. No, not from Schellenberger. He belongs to the
Bronx unit.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Reporter, let the record show now and for
practically the entire hearing a quorum of the full committee is
present in addition to the subcommittee. That quorum is composed
of Mr. Voorhis, Mr. Mason. Mr. Dempsey and the chairman.
62626 — 41— vol. 14 13
g352 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, I show you a photograph and ask
you if this is a photograph of yourself in this [indicating uniform]
O. D. uniform that you have identified?
Mr. Werner. That is right; that is me.
Mr. Matthews. When was that taken, approximately?
Mr. Werner. On Christmas.
Mr. Matthews. Around Christmas of this last year?
Mr. Werner. That is right, last Christmas.
Mr. Matthews. December 1939?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. I ask that that be marked as exhibit No. 2.
Mr. Starnes. The photograph will be marked as exhibit No. 2.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Werner Exhibit No. 2")
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph, Mr. Werner, and ask
you if that was taken at Madison Square Garden during a rally of the
German-American Bund on February 28, 1939?
Mr. Werner. Yes; February 1939.
Mr. Matthews. February 28, 1939?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. IVIatthews. And is this a picture taken on the platform of
Madison Square Garden?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it is.
Mr. Matthews. And are these men in the picture members of
the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is the individual in the foreground of this picture
yourself?
Mr. Werner. That is right; that is me.
Mr. Matthews. You appear to be on the right-hand end of the
line on the platform of Madison Square Garden that night in your
O. D. uniform?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. I ask that this be marked as exhibit No. 3.
Mr. Starnes. It may be marked "Exhibit 3" and made a part of
the record.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Werner Exhibit No. 3")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, do you know a man by the name of
Hans Meyer?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I know him very well.
Mr. Matthews. M-e-y-e-r?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was he a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, he was.
Mr. Matthews. Wliere is he now, do you know?
Mr. Werner. He is in Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Was he a member of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was.
Mr. Matthews. Was he a member of the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. He was a leader of the O. D.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know when he went to Germany?
Mr. Werner. In the summer of 1939.
Mr. Matthews. Could you help me find liis photograph in this
pile of pictures?
Mr. Werner. This is him.
rX-AMEKK'AN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8353
Mr. Matthews. Ho is in the first row of the photograph, the fifth
from the end, is tiuit correct?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. That is Hans Meyer?
Mr. AVerner. Hans Meyer.
Mr. Dempsey. Why did he go to Germany?
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state why he went to Germany,
Mr. Werner?
Mr. Werner. Well, his vocation is a mechanic. He was called
back by the German Government with everything paid, his trip for
himself, for his wife and child and a job over in Germany — a small
liouse and garden.
Mr. Dempsey. What kind of a job did he receive over there?
Mr. Werner. He worked in an airplane factory — in a Hermann
Goering airplane factory.
Mr. Matthews. In Magdeberg, Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. You say he was called back. You stated he was
an American citizen, didn't you?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. But he was called to Germany by the German
Government?
Mr. Werner. Yes, through the German consul in New York.
Mr. Matthews. Did you see him at the time of his departure from
the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Did you talk with him about his going to Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. MaTTHEWs. Did you understand from him that he had received
both instructions and passage from the German consulate in New
York?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. To go to Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right, yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was the individual in the German consulate in
New York, the Consul Hans Borchers?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; consul general.
Mr. Matthews. Consul B-o-r-c-h-e-r-s delivered instructions to
Hans Meyer?
Mr. Werner. B-o-r-c-h-e-r-t.
Mr. Matthews. Is there a "t" in it?
Mr. Werner. I think so.
Mr. Matthews. I think not but we can verify that. Hans Meyer
received instructions and passage for himself and family?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Despite the fact that he was an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. From the consul general in New York to go to
Germany and work in the Hermann Goering airplane factory?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Last summer, a year ago?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Just prior to the outbreak of war?
Mr. Werner. About in June.
8354 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Was it understood in the O. D. and German-
American Bund that American citizens who were members of these
organizations were also subject to orders from Germany?
Mr. Werner. That was understood.
Mr. Matthews. That was the understanding?
Mr. Werner. It was understood.
Mr. Matthews. There is no doubt in your mind about that?
Mr. Werner. No doubt in my mind about that.
Mr. Matthews. About the fact that anyone who was a member of
the O. D. and the German- American Bund were subject to orders from
Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right. He isn't the only one who went back.
There was another citizen from this country.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please name someone else who was a
citizen of the United States and was called back to Germany?
Mr. Werner. There was Hans Asch; he was a mechanic too.
Mr. Dempsey, When you say "called back," you mean ordered
back?
Mr. Werner. I guess that is almost the same.
Mr. Dempsey. It was not clear in my own mind.
Mr. Mattheavs. Did they receive instructions to go back?
Mr. Werner. I will say yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any instance in which a member
of the O. D. or the German- American Bund received instructions to
go to Germany and did not comply?
Mr. Werner. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did not comply with those instructions?
Mr. Werner. No; I don't know about that.
Mr. Matthews. You don't know of such instances?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. But you do know of your first-hand conversation
with Asch and Meyer?
Mr. Werner. No; Asch went overnight. He didn't have time to
say goodby to anyone.
Mr. Matthews. You mean he received instructions and went
immediately?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Without even an opportunity to say goodbye?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. How did you know that he went to Germany?
Mr. Werner. He wrote a letter to some of his friends over here.
Mr. Matthews. Which indicated that he was in Germany?
Mr. Werner. He was in Germany and working in the factory in
the southern part of Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Rudolf Markmann
is now in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he is in Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Did he receive instructions to go to Germany or
did he escape to Germany?
Mr. Werner. No; I would say he ran away from here. That was
in the beguining of the investigation of Fritz Kulm.
Mr. Matthews. Was that a little more than a year ago?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
UX-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8355
Mr. Matthews. And at that time Markmann decided to get out of
the United States?
Mr. Werner. That is right, disappear.
Mr. Matthews. And go to Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was he an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. To my knowledge he was.
Mr. Matthews. As far as you Imow he was an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you loiow any peculiar circumstances sur-
rounding his desire to get out of the United States and go to Germany?
Mr, Werner. Yes; he sneaked out of this coimtry. He wanted
nobody to know about it. Even his plans were to hide himself in
a box and some of us should carry him up on the boat in the box and
leave the box and then he would get out, but we did not do that.
Mr. Matthews. That is he wanted to be carried aboard ship in a
box?
Mr. Werner. Yes; one of my friends brought him on the boat just
5 mmutes before sailing time.
Mr. Matthews. Who was that, Josef Kesch?
Mr. Werner. Josef Resch, that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was he your roommate?
Mr. Werner. Yes ; I lived with him.
Mr. Matthews. You lived with Josef Resell?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And Josef Resch took Markmann aboard ship?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you knew about Hans Meyer going to Ger-
many because he received mstructions from the German consul gen-
eral in New York. Did members of the O. D. go down to the boat
to see Hans Meyer off?
Mr. Werner. Yes; all the members.
Mr. Matthews. All the members?
Mr. Werner. All the members, that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat boat did he sail on, do you recall?
Mr. Werner. It was the Hamburg-American Line, the New York
or the Hamburg.
Mr. Matthews. Either the New York or Hamburg?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Of the Hamburg-American Line?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did vou go down to the ship personallv to see
him off?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. VooRHis. To see who off?
Mr. Matthews. Hans Meyer. And you say many other members
of the O. D. went down to the boat to see him off?
Mr. Werner. There were about 50 or 60 members of the O. D.
Mr. ]\L\TTHEws. Were you received aboard ship in any special
manner by ship officials?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; we were led to a special dining room.
It was just reserved for him so he could have some kind of farewell
party.
Mr. Matthews. Were you all in O. D. uniforms?
3356 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Not in fiill uniform. We had our black trousers,
grey shirt, and black tie. We were not allowed to go on a German boat
in the full uniform.
Mr. AIatthews. That is you did not have the cap on?
Mr. Werner. Did not have the cap on or we didn't have the belt
on. We had this arm band on.
Mr. Matthews. You had the arm band on?
Mr. Werner. Yes; but not the full time. We sung a couple of
songs, one special song, and then we put on this arm band.
Mr. Matthews. But you had the trousers and the grey shirt and
black tie?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And part of the time you had the arm band on?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And you were given a special dining room by the
officials of the boat?
Mr. Werner. We were given a special dining room, yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was that by the captain, or do you know?
Mr. Werner. I am not quite sure, but I guess they would have to
have the captain's permission.
Mr. VooRHis. Did these people want to go back to Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I guess they wanted to go back. They pictured
everything so nice and quiet and peaceful and plenty of work and
good living conditions over in Germany, so I guess everybody was
wilhng to go.
Mr. Matthews. Now, do you know of any instance that might
be called an exception to that, where any one of these persons actually
wept because he had to leave the United vStates under orders?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Who was that?
Mr. Werner. Hans Meyer, and one fellow by the name of Hans
Zimmerman.
Mr. Matthews. Did they say they preferred so much to stay in
America that they actually wept when they had to leave the United
States to go to Germany — did they explain it?
Mr. Werner. Leaving so many friends l)ehind and there were
some good fellows — I guess that touched their heart.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Ernst Sotzek was in
Germany recently?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was.
Mr. Matthews. Ernst Sotzek is now what in the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. He is O. D. leader for the unit of Manhattan.
Mr. Matthews. He is the leader for the Manhattan unit of the
O. D.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Wlien was he in Germany?
Mr. Werner. To my best knowledge the last time was 1936 or
1937. I am not quite sure.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever hear him say anything about
whether or not he had wanted to remain in Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. What did he say about it?
Mr. Werner. One of his brothers is a very high official in the Nazi
Party in East Prussia and he went back over there for a visit. He
rX-AMKKICAX I'UdPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8357
made a remark that he would like to stay over there and his brother
and some other officials told him to go back to the United States,
become a citizen — he could do much more good for German}^ and for
the ideals they have over here than over there; they have plenty of
men over there, but they need some good men out in the United
States.
Mr. Matthews. So he was advised to return to the United States
despite his desii-e to remain in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Because bund leaders and Nazi leaders were
leaders in the United States?
.Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And more than he was needed in Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And he came back to the United States and is
now the O. D. leader for the unit of Manhattan?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Dempsey. Was he a citizen of the United States at the time
this happened in Germany?
Mr. Werner. No; he was not.
Mr. Dempsey. Is he a citizen now?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Dempsey. He became a citizen at the direction of the officials,
of the Nazi Party?
Mr. Werner. According to his word, yes.
Mr. Matthews. At this point, Mr. W^erner, I would like to ask
j^ou if you have recently registered as an alien in compliance with
the recently enacted statute in this country?
Mr. Werner. Yes. sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall when you registered as an alien?
Mr. Werner. That was the third or fourth day after it became the
law.
Mr. Matthews. Was that about the middle of September?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I would say so. I don't loiow exactly the
date, but I am sure it was the third or fourth day after we had to
register.
Mr. Matthews. When you registered did you give the information
that you had been a member of the German- American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I marked down I was a member of the
German- American Bund up to December 1939 because I only paid
dues up to there.
Mr. Matthews. But you continued your active association up to
the end of February; is that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. But you were a dues-paying member up to the
end of December?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Does Sotzek's brother in East Prussia occupy the
position of Gauleiter as far as you loiow?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. That is his position in East Prussia?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Arid it was his brother who advised him to return
to the United States to take up a position of leadership in the bund?
8358 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know G. Wilhelm Kunze personally?
Mr, Werner. Yes; I know him very good.
Mr. Matthews. Have you laiown him for a number of years?
Mr. Werner. Yes; since I was in the bund I know him and for the
last half a year in the bund I had a chance to laiow him veiy well.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have any contact with him after he
became the fuehrer
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Of the German-American Bund as a successor to
Fritz Kuhn?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Kunze ever expressed
any deshe to remain in Germany and not to return to the United
States?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. How did you learn that?
Mr. Werner. One of the officers from the bund, one of the higher
officers from the bund, told me and some other fellows that Kunze
would like to stay on one of his visits — wanted to stay in Germany
and even begged them and they told him "no," that he has to go back
to the United States.
Mr. Matthews. Was that high official who told vou that Gustav
Elmer?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. AIatthews. And Gustav Elmer now is the treasurer of the
German -American B und ?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall whether or not Kunze was in Ger-
many in 1938?
Mr. Werner. I am not quite sure.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze testified before this committee a few
days ago that he was in Germany in 1938 and also in 1937. \Mien he
returned from Germany did he address meetings of the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes ; he did.
Mr. Matthews. OroftheO. D.?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did he describe what he had seen in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he described everything was wonderful and he
praised the conditions over in Germany sky high.
Mr. Matthews. Now, in the course of his addressing the meetings
of the bund after his return from Germany on either one of these occa-
sions, did he say anything about having met high officials of the Nazi
Party or of the German Government while in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. Matthews. He did?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Whom did he say he had met?
Mr. Werner. He met former bund members, high officials now in
Germany — talked to them, and to our knowledge he even met Hitler.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat do you mean by "to your knowledge he
even met Hitler"?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8359
Mr. Werner. I don't know if he was the one who said that he
met him but everyono from tlio O. D. who talked about it said Fritz
Kuhn met Hitler and other members
Mr. Matthews. TMiether or not Mr. Kunze did meet Hitler is
the question. Was it the opinion of the O. D. that Kunze met Hitler
in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes ; that he talked with him.
Mr. M.\tthews. That he as well as Kuhn had met Hitler?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. During his visit to Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. TMiat occupation was Kunze alleged to have been
engaged in prior to his assumption of positions in the German-American
Bund?
Mr. Werner. To my knowledge and to the other fellows' knowledge
he was a teacher and I was surprised a couple of days ago wdien I was
reading the paper that he was a chauffeur and mechanic and so forth.
Mr. Matthews. During the year that you laiew him in the
leadership of the bund did you ever hear him or anyone else in the
bund refer to him as a chauffeur?
Mr. Werner. Never.
Mr. Matthews. You had no idea that he had been a chauffeur?
Mr. Werner. No; never.
Mr. Matthews. Most of his adult life?
Mr. Werner. Never.
Mr. Matthews. As he testified before this committee?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. It was the belief in the bund that he had been a
teacher?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kunze did not testify that he had ever been
a teacher; he testified that he had been a chaufl'eur-mechanic.
Mr. Starnes. I believe he testified he had been a chauffeur-
mechanic since 1933 and prior to that time he was in Trinidad and
other islands of the West Indies where he held several positions.
But since 1933, if I recall his testimony correctly, he has been a chauf-
feur-mechanic.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he said anything
about meeting Walter Kappe?
Mr. Werner. That is right. He said he met Walter Kappe at
Stuttgart.
Mr. Matthews. At Stuttgart in the Ausland Institute?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether ho met Fritz Gissibl?
Mr. Werner. He did.
Mr. Matthews. Was that also in Stuttgart in the Ausland In-
stitute?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now, you know that from his having said so?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. He told O. D. members that?
Mr. Werner. He told O. D. members and members from the
German-American Bund — at a membership meeting.
Mr. Matthews. Did he say he had met Josef Schuster?
3360 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr, Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did he make particular reference to Kappe and
Gissibl and Schuster because they had all been in the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; they were former members and leaders
from the Friends of New Germany and he talked to them. He was
wined and dined.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know what position Josef Schuster now
occupies in Germany?
Mr. Werner. He is second district leader or Gauleiter from
Bavaria.
Mr. Matthews. That is the Nazi Party in Bavaria?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. At least that is the report you got in this country
as to his activities?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Were Kappe and Gissibl and Schuster American
citizens or do you laiow?
Mr. Werner. I could not say for sure. Kappe was not a citizen,
I know that, and Schuster
Mr. Starnes. Gissibl's testimony was that he was not an American
citizen. That was the testimony we received in 1938. He testified
that he was an alien and that he returned to Germany. As I recall
one of his brothers was a citizen.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever meet Gissibl?
Mr. Werner. Fritz Gissibl, yes.
Mr. Matthews. The one who is now in Germany?
Mr. Werner, Yes, sir; as a member of the Friends of New Ger-
many.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Walter Kappe?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I saw him when he was talking at meetings
and so forth.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Josef Schuster?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Is there any particular significance attached to these
men? They have been in this country and were connected with the
Friends of New Germany and the German-American Bund. They
are now in the Ausland Institute in Stuttgart?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir; and Kunze stated he met no officials of
the party while he was in Germany. He said he went down to see his
parents-in-law in Germany.
Now, do you know whether Rudolf Markmann occupies any position
in Germany at the present time?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he does.
Mr. Matthews. Is he an official of the party or of the Government
in Germany?
Mr. Werner. As much as — I will say to the best of my knowledge
yes — he has — he is working for the party.
Mr. Matthews. How did Hans Zimmermann happen to leave the
United States? You have identified him already as a member of the
German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; and a former member of the Friends of New
Germany.
Mr. Matthews. And also an O. D. member?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §361
Mr. ^^ATTHEAvs. Do vou knoAV how he happened to leave the
United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he had to leave this country — he had his
deportation papers.
Mr. Matthews. He was deported?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sii".
Mr. Matthews. Because he was in the country illegally?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was he deported in June 1939 or thereabouts?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did he express any great regret at having to
leave the United States and go back to Germany?
Mr. Werner. No, no; he was not sorry.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know a man by the name of Albert
Born?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I know him.
Mr. Matthews. It he a bund member?
Mr. Werner. He is a bund member.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where he is employed at the present
time?
Mr. Werner. He works in the airplane factory in Long Island.
Mr. Matthews. In an airplane factory on Long Island, N. Y.?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know the name of the factory?
Air. Werner. No, I don't know it.
Mr. Matthews. Now, after you had your drills — I believe they were
were on Monday night, were they not?
Mr. Werner. Every Monday night, yes.
Mr. Matthews. In the Bund, was there anything in the nature
of a pledge taken by the members at the conclusion of the meeting?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat was that? Will you please describe that?
Mr. Werner. After the meeting was over — that was at 11 o'clock,
we had to stand up and we would sing the second verse of the bund
song and then the O. D. leader would shout "attention." He would
say it in German.
Mr. Matthews. "Achtung"?
Mr. Werner. That is right. And then his words were: "For our
spiritual leader, for our bund, for our O. D., and for what it stands"
Mr. Matthews. Now, who is referred to in the expression: "To
our spiritual leader"?
Mr. Werner. Adolf Hitler.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the way in which Hitler is designated in the
bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. First this salute or pledge was "for our spiritual
leader" and that is for Adolf Hitler?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. AL\TTHEWS. And then, "for our fuehrer in this country"?
Mr. Wbiiner. That is right, yes— no, no, — yes, "for our political
leader," for our bund leader.
Mr. Matthews. That would be Kunze at the present time?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And then for the O. D.?
§362 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And the German "sieg heil, sieg heil, sieg heil" —
"hail victory, hail victory, hail victory"?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Kimze testified a few days ago there wasn't
any connection between the German-American Bund and the Nazi
Party or the Nazi Government in Germany.
If I recall correctly, Mr. Chairman, he went so far as to say he was
opposed to the spread of nazi-ism in the United States.
■ Mr. VooRHis. That was his testimony. He said that three times.
Mr. Matthews. As Congressman Voorhis said, he said that three
times. Have you any statement to make about whether or not the
German-American Bund is opposed to the spread of nazi-ism in the
United States.
Mr. Werner. No; it is not opposed to it. They are for it.
Mr. Matthews. Is there any doubt whatever in your mind, Mr.
Werner, that the German-American Bund is an agency which is
under the control of a foreign principal in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; it is my firm belief and my firm conviction
that the German-American Bund is some kind of an agency of the
National Socialist Party in Germany.
Mr. Matthews. You are not trying to give the exact legalistic
description of the connection, but you are quite positive that there
is a connection?
Mr. Werner. ^Yliatever we said or whatever we did it was in favor
of the National Socialist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Now, do you laiow August Klapprott?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I do know him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know him very well?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I do.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever hear Klapprott say anything about
"Der Tag," ''The Day"?
Mr, Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What was his comment about "The Day"?
Mr. Werner. Well, one of his comments was that "The Day
isn't so far away." He said: "We will have it our way — the way
we are working for." I could not say exactly his words.
Mr. Matthews. Where did you hear him make such a statement
as that — a statement referring to "The Day"?
Mr. Werner. This was in Brooklyn in one of the big O. D. meet-
ings. There was about — between four and five hundred O. D. men
there.
Mr. Starnes. The public hearings are now recessed until 1 o'clock
p. m., this date.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 o'clock p. m., the hearing was recessed until
1 o'clock p. m., the same day.)
after recess
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed. Dr. Matthews. »
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Werner, when Fritz Kuhn testified before
the committee he stated the records of the German-American Bund
had been destroyed. This morning you testified that you vohmteered
yom- services to copy names from bund membership cards onto sheets
of paper.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8363
Do you know whother thoro was any connection })ctwccn this
work which you chd and the anticipated destruction of the records?
Mr. Werner. To my best knowledge the cards were destroyed
and the Hsts were kept.
Mr. Matthews. It was your understandinii; the cards were to be
destroyed and the hsts, which wouhl be much smaller in bulk than the
cards
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Would be preserved as membership records?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And that was the understanding you had whea
you did this work?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anyone who, for a time at least,
possessed the membership records in the form of the sheets which
you had helped to cop}^?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I do.
Mr. Matthews. Who was that?
Mr. Werner. O. D.'s man Hans Kramer.
Mr. Matthews. What was Hans Kramer's occupation?
Mr, Werner, He owns a barber shop on Seventy-fourth Street
near Second Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph which appears to have
been made at Camp Nordland ■
Mr. Werner. That is right,
Mr, Matthews. Since the words "Camp Nordland" are on the
building in the background of the picture?
Mr, Werner, That is right,
Mr, Matthews, And I will ask you if you can identify any one of
the persons in that photograph as Hans Kramer?
Mr. Werner, This man here [indicating].
Mr, Matthews, The one man in the group whose full face view is
toward the camera?
Mr. Werner, That is right,
Mr, Matthews, Is that correct?
Mr, Werner, That is correct,
Mr, Matthews, Just for the purpose of other identification, who
is that [indicating]?
Mr, Werner. August Klapprott,
Mr, Matthews, Do you know who this is [indicating]?
Mr, Werner, William Kunze,
Mr, Matthews, And the other man?
Mr. Werner, Mr, Keegan,
Mr, Matthews, General counsel for the German-American Bund?
Mr, Werner, That is right,
Mr, Matthews, I ask that that be marked in evidence,
Mr, Starnes, The photograpli referred to will be marked exhibit
No, 4 and made a part of the record,
(The photograph referred to was marked "Werner Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. Matthews. Now, was it your understanding that Kramer
kept these membership records in the form of typewritten sheets in
his barber shop?
J^364 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. In his apartment behind the barber shop.
Mr. Matthews. In his apartment behind the barber shop?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever see them there or how did you know
they were there?
Mr. Werner. He told me that himself and I saw James Wheeler
Hill, the former secretary, gomg in the back — going in the apartment
and looking over some books and some lists.
Mr. Matthews. You were present when that took place?
Mr. Werner. I was present when that happened, yes,
Mr. Matthews. You attended the Madison Square rally of the
bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. On February 20, 1939. You have testified to
that already?
Air. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you laiow how much money was collected at
that meeting?
Mr. Werner. James Wlieeler Hill said downstairs in one of the
lobbies when we were off duty for a half hour, he said there were
eight thousand two hundred-and-some-odd dollars collected.
Mr. Matthews. Hill was at that time treasurer of the Bund, was
he not?
Mr. Werner. Secretary of the bund.
Mr. Matthews. Secretary?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he was the right-hand man to Kuhn.
Mr. Matthews. Told you at the meeting that night
Mr. Werner. Yes; and some other O. D. members, yes.
Mr. Matthews. That eight thousand two hundred-and-some-odd
dollars had been collected?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. At the Garden that night?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Now, do you know how much money was reported
later to the membership of the bund as having been collected at that
Madison Square Garden rally?
Mr. Werner. Yes; $825; something like that.
Mr. Matthews. $82,5 was reported as having been collected?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And yet Hill told you that $8,000 had been
collected ?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any idea how many people were
present at the Garden that night?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Was the Garden filled?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; filled up to the last seat. I don't know
how much it holds.
Mr. Matthews. Is this a photograph of the meeting at the Garden
that night?
Mr. Werner. Between twenty and twenty-two thousand, and
many more cards sold on the outside.
Mr. Matthews. You mean tickets were sold?
Mr. Werner. That is right, to people who couldn't get in.
I'X-AMKKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8365
Mr. Matthews. Is that another photograph of the Garden meeting
that night?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Docs it appear that a very hirge nnmher of
people in tiie aiulience are giving the Nazi salute m this photograph?
Mr. Werner. Almost every one.
Mr. Matthews. Would it be your own nndcrstandnig that with
twenty-two or twenty-three thousand persons present there must
have been more than $800 taken in in collections?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sure. Some of the collection boxes had checks
for more than $100 and there were $50 and $20 bills in the collection
box. I would say about 100 O. D. men went around with the col-
lection boxes antl almost everyone reported that they were filled up
to the top — you could not put a dime in any more in these boxes.
Mr. Matthews. And you were on duty that night in the O. D.?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I was carrying the flag.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I would like to mark these photo-
graphs as exhibits.
]\[r. Starnes. The photographs will be marked "Exhibits" and
received in evidence.
(The photographs referred to were marked "Werner Exhibits Nos.
5 and 6.")
Mr. Matthews. Do you know the names of any of the larger con-
tributors to the German-American Bund; I mean financial contrib-
utors, of course?
Mr. Werner. Yes; one bund member, one Dr. Klein.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where he lives — in what city?
Mr. Werner. I think Eighty-seventh Street in Manhattan, near
Second Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. Is that Dr. O. H. Klein?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever yourself solicited contributions
from him for the bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. That is, you have been assigned the work of going
around to get money from Dr. Klein?
Mr. Werner. No; they didn't tell me to go to Dr. Klein, but I
went there because I knew he was one of the best spenders for the
Bund. He never refused. As soon as I was handed the list that was
my first thing, to approach him.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know any of the other larger contributors
to the financial treasury of the Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; a baking firm— concern — Krueger.
Mr. Matthews. Can you spell the name?
Mr. Werner. K-r-u-e-g-e-r.
Mr. Matthews. Krueger?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The Krueger baking concern?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir. He owns quite a number of trucks.
Mr. Matthews. Was it Mr. Krueger himself who was one of the
larger contributors to the Bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right, yes.
8366 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Do you happen to know whether he is a man of
considerable wealth or not?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you Icnow any of the large contributors?
Mr. Werner. One woman in Jersey. I just don't recollect her
name.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever see her name in any of the records
of the Bund as a contributor?
Mr. Werner. Her name was mentioned in one of the meetings.
Mr. Matthews. Did she live in Short Hills, New Jersey?
Mr. Werner. That is right. She loaned the Bund $1,000 for
Fritz Kuhn's bail and she did not ask for it — she did not ask for the
$1,000 back. She left $500 in the bund.
Mr. Matthews. Would you be able to identify her name if I
have it to you?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I would.
Mr. Matthews. Was it Mary Fertsch?
Mr. Werner. Mrs. Fertsch, that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Mary Fertsch of Short Hills, N. J.?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever go around to merchants, German
merchants in New York to solicit contributions for the German-
American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Were these merchants, these German merchants
all members of the bund or sympathizers with the bund?
Mr. Werner. No; not sympathizers. In one way, yes; but not
all members.
Mr. Matthews. Some of them were members and some were not?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you make it a point not to go to German
merchants who were not sympathizers with the bund, or did you go
to all German merchants you knew about? What was your practice?
Mr. Werner. For collecting money I went to all the merchants I
know and I was dealing with and asked for contributions.
Mr. Matthews. Now, do you know anything about a practice of
imposing something like a boycott on German merchants who refused
to contribute to the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I myself threatened some of them — I don't
want to say "threatened," but I told them I would not buy there
anymore and I would tell my friends not to come in there anymore.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not that was the general
practice?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it was.
Mr. Matthews. For solicitors from the bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. To give at least implied threats of a boycott to
merchants who refused to contribute?
Mr. Werner. That is right; everybody was doing that.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not the bund has active
sympathizers in the police department of New York City?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any idea about how many such
sympathizers there are?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES' 8367
Mr. Werner. Oh, I would say a few hundrcHl in the New York
Fohce Dopartniont.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever met them personally — any of
them?
Mr. Werner. One of them 1 met quite often — almost at every
meeting we luul.
Mr. Matthews. How do you know that he was a sympathizer with
the German-American Bund? In what way did he express his
sympathy?
' Mr. Werner. He attended all meetings; he bought all papers and
he thought we were right — whatever we were doing was correct and he
was with us — not only he, but quite a few members of the police
department are with us. He used to have a swastika ring at every
meeting he attended.
Mr. Matthews. He wore a swastika ring?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know his name?
Mr. Werner. No; I don't. I will say that Heintz Tissen is workmg
for his w'lic in a beauty parlor.
Mr. Matthews. Heintz Tissen who was mentioned this morning in
your testimony?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Working for the wife of this ■
Mr. W^ERNER. Policeman.
Mr. Matthews. Policeman?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In a beauty parlor in New York?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That is the only way you can identify the
policeman?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been out to Camp Siegfried?
Mr. Werner. Very often.
Mr. Matthews. You have been there often?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not boys from California
who were spending their vacation at Camp Siegfried were sent to
Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; there were four boys from a military acad-
emy from California that came up to Camp Siegfried. They wore the
uniform and they left Camp Siegfried. They were in Camp Siegfried
for 1 week and they were going to Germany. They told us that the
trip was paid for by the German Government and they were spending
some months in Germany as guests of the German Government.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether the bund ever directly or
indirectlv sent other young people to Germany for propaganda pur-
poses; and by " indirectly ""l mean the bund was active in getting up
such delegations?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Of tourists to go to Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. In order that they might come in contact with the
National Socialist system there?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 14
8368 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Aiid come back to the United States and prop-
agandize on behalf of the Nazi movement?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know who receives the propaganda Hter-
atiire from Germany to distribute on behalf of the bund?
Mr. Werner. That is one O. D. man, Ernst Schwenck.
Mr. Matthews. Does literature come directly to Schwenck from
Germany?
Mr. Werner. It comes to him directly from Germany as far as I
know; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Well, how do you connect him with it?
Mr. Werner. Every week we were getting the German papers,
what they call the Black Corps and the Sturmer. They were printed
just 1 week before I received them.
Mr. Matthews. You mean they were printed in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; if today is the 4th or 5th of October they were
printed maybe the 27th or 28th of September in Germany. I get
them just 1 week or 8 days later. He was the one who sold us these
papers.
Mr. Matthews. At least you know that much, that he sold you the
literature that came from Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And was that his special responsibility in the
bund — in the work of the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it was.
Mr. Matthews. Were you under any kind of compulsion, moral
compulsion or otherwise, to buy this literature?
Mr. Werner. Yes; moral compulsion 1 will say. If he did not sell
his papers he stood up and made a speech that he ordered them and he
is getting these papers and he expects that everyone at least gets one
or two of these papers.
Mr. Matthews. Before the outbreak of the war when German
boats and crews were still coming into New York harbor, did the crew
members go to the Germ an -Am eric an Bund camp as the guests of the
camp?
Mr. Werner. Yes; sometimes.
Mr. Matthews. Did that happen often or infrequently?
Mr. Werner. About four or five times I would say for sure.
Mr. Matthews. You mean you personally knew of four or five
instances?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In which the crew members of German ships were
the guests of the camp?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What camp was that?
Mr. Werner. Camp Siegfried.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not each German boat
that came into New York Harbor had its own propaganda feuhrer
or leader?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it had.
Mr. Matthews. And did these propaganda leaders from the
German boats visit the camps of the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; sometimes,
Mr. Matthews. Did they make speeches?
rX-AMEIUCAN PUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8369
Mr. Werner. Not in the camp ])ut in meetings.
Mr. Matthews. In meetings of the bnnd?
Mr. Werner. In meetings of the bund; yes.
Mr. Matthews. As a member of the O. D. of the German-American
Bimd did yon (^ver do guard duty at the meetings of Joe McWilhams
of the Christian Mobihzers?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Was it the common practice for the O. D. to
be assigned to do guard duty at the meetings of Joe McWilhams?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. AIatthews. Do you recall any occasion on which George
Deatherage of the organization known as the Knights of the Wliite
Camellia addressed meetings of the German-American Bimd?
Mr. Werner. That was a meeting of the German-American Bund
and the Christian Mobilizers together in the Bronx in front of Ford
Park or something like that — a big park.
Mr, Matthews. Was that Innisfail Park?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Innisfail Park in the Bronx?
Mr. Werner. In the Bronx, yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That was a joint meeting of the German-American
Bund and the Christian Mobilizers?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Addressed by Joe McWillaims?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And by George Deatherage?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; and by Fritz Kuhn.
Mr. IVIatthews. Did you ever hear of an organization known as
the Kyffhauserbund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. K-y-f-f-h-a-u-s-e-r?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was that organization formerly known as the
Steel Helmets or in German, Stahlhelm?
Mr. Werner. Steel Helmets — Stahlhelm.
Mr. Matthews. What do you know about the nature of the
Kyffhauserbund ?
Mr. Werner. I woidd say it is an organization of former German
war veterans and pro-Nazis. In the meetings they don't have any
American flags — only the swastika there.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been to a meeting of the Kyff-
hauserbund?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where they meet?
Mr. Werner. In the KJreutzer Hall.
Mr. Matthews. You know the Kyft'hauserbund did meet at the
Kreutzer Hall?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. How do you know that?
Mr. Werner. I was working in the Kreutzer Hall as a chef and I
happened to go up to one of these halls and they were decorating the
haU.
Mr. Matthews. They were decorating the hall for a meeting of the
Kyffhauserbund?
3370 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matthews. When you were working in the hall?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You did not attend the meeting but you saw them
decorating the hall?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Wlien you say "German war veterans" you mean
Germans who fought in the German Army?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In some war or other?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; that is right, in the last war.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about the relationship of
the German consul's office to the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. On a couple of occasions I saw one of the secretaries —
I guess he is a secretary — in the German consulate. He was inside
in the office of the German- American Bund, and one of the leaders was
saying, "There is still a higher leader than Kuhn." At that time Kuhn
was the leader.
Mr. Matthews. He said: "There is still a higher leader in the
German-American Bund"?
Mr. Werner. Kunze made the remark.
Mr. Matthews. That there was someone in the consulate
Mr. Werner. No; not in the consulate, but between us, we know
who it was. He was one of the secretaries in the German consulate.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, Kunze made a statement that
there was someone in this comitry
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Wlio was higher in the leadership of the bund than
Fritz Kuhn?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Or himself?
Mr. Werner. Yes; who gave orders to the bund.
Mr, Matthews. Who gave orders to the bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And you say that you understood that that man
was one of the secretaries in the German consulate?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In New York?
Mr. Werner. That is right; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know who the man was?
Mr. Werner. (No answer.)
Mr. Matthews. Do you know his name?
Mr. Werner. It was something like Ohnen or Ohner. I am not
quite sure of the name.
Mr. Matthews. How would you spell it, approximately?
Mr, Werner. I would spell it O-h-n-e-r or O-h-n-e-n.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know which it was?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. But when you heard the name, that is the im-
pression it made upon you, is that right?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Ohner or Ohnen?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §371
Mr. Matthews. A secretaiy in the German ronsiilate who had
higher authority in the German-American Bimd thnn either Kulin
or Kunze?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about a Nazi school in
Yorkville?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. In Manhattan?
Mr. Werner. There are different schools. There is one school run
by the German Bund and there is one school run by the German
consulate — under the supervision of the German consulate.
Mr. Matthews. Where is this school in Yorkville that is under
the supervision of the German consulate?
Mr. Werner. In the Turnverein Hall, on Eighty-fifth Street and
Lexington Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. Lexington Avenue and Eighty-fifth Street?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In New York?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is it behind Jaeger's Restaurant?
Mr. Werner. In the same building,
Mr. Matthews. In the rear of the building?
Mr. W^erner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Is this school run by the National Socialist Party?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. That is the National Socialist Party in the
Ignited States?
Mr. Werner. In the United States.
Mr. Matthews. By whom is it financed?
Mr. Werner. The German consulate.
Mr. Matthews. It is financed by the German consulate?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. W^ith funds that come from Germany, as far as
you know?
Mr. Werner. I don't know where the funds are coming from.
I guess they would have no other means of making any money.
Air. Matthews. Now, how many pupils attend this school?
Mr. Werner. Between two and three hundred.
Mr. Matthews. What are the approximate ages of the pupils in
attendance at the school?
Mr. Werner. Between 8 and 16.
\It. Matthews. Do you know any of the pupils or have you known
any of the pupils who attended the school, yourself?
Nir. Werner. Yes; I know two children.
Mr. Matthews. How old were the children that you personally
knew?
Mr. Werner. Eleven and twelve.
Mr. Matthews. Boys or girls?
Mr. Werner. One boy and one girl.
Mr. Matthews. How did you happen to know these two children
who attended this Nazi school?
Mr. Werner. The mother of the two children was my laundress-
took care of my laundry.
Mr. Matthews. She washed vour clothing?
3372 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Air. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever help these two children with their
home worlv which they brought home from the Nazi school?
Mr. Werner. Yes; many times.
Mr. Matthews. Was instruction in that school in the German
language?
Mr. Werner. Only in German.
Mr. Matthews. Did you see the books which they were studying^
from?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Were they books published in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. In the German language?
Mr. Werner. That is right. They were printed in Erfurt and
Leipzig.
Mr. Matthews. Now, these two children who were the children of
your laundress, where were they born?
Mr. Werner. They were born over here in this country.
Mr. Matthews. They were American citizens?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not their father was
living?
Mr. Werner. The father is dead.
Mr. Matthews. Were the children on relief?
Mr. Werner. Yes; they were getting money from the city of
New York.
Mr. Matthews. Did the mother tell you that.
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What was the attitude of these cliildren, let us
say the boy in particular, toward the United States and his attitude
toward Hitler's Third Reich?
Mr. Werner. All his talk and all his thoughts were pro-German.
Mr. Matthews. Were they pro-Nazi?
Mr. Werner. Pro-Nazi; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat was his attitude toward the United States?
Did he express himself?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he did. He did not like it over here. He
wanted to live in Germany. That was his sole ambition.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know him last year?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. He was 11 years old then, was he?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And he thought it would be much nicer to live
in Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Than in the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did he ever plan to go to Germany?
Mr. Werner. Yes; the plans were made in the German consulate.
He was waiting for his ticket and his passport from Germany so he
could go to Germany, through the German consulate.
Mr. Matthews. Plans were made at the German consulate to
send him to Germany?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
IN-AMERICAN I'liorAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8373
Mr. Matthews. And to pay his expenses?
]\Ir. Wekner. Yes; to pay the ship's ticket and his upkeep over
in Germany for 0 or 7 years.
Mr. Matthews. And when was he planning to make that trip?
Mr. Werner. Just before the war started and his
Mr. Matthews. Did you talk to him after he discovered that it
would be impossible for him to go to Germany because the war had
broken out?
Mr. Werner Yes.
Mr. Matthews. AVhat was his attitude toward that?
Mr. Werner. He was heartbroken that he could not go,
Mr. Matthews. In other words, do you mean to say that here was
a boy born in the United States, an American citizen, who was being
taught in this Nazi school, supported by the German Government
through the German consulate
Mr. Werner. Right.
Mr. Matthews. Promised a trip to Germany with his expenses
paid by the German Government?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Wlio thought that Germany was a much better
country than the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. "\Mien the plans fell through and he was unable to
go to Germany he expressed himself in the manner which your de-
scribe as "heartbroken"?
Mr. Werner. Heartbroken; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, the witness is able to give the
name of the woman and the children if you desire it.
]Mr. Starnes. I suggest that be done in executive session. I prefer
it be given to the committee in executive session, but be certain the
committee is provided with that information.
Mr. Matthews. You said that this Nazi school where two to three
hundred chikh-en are enrolled is under the direction of the National
Socialist Party?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Well, is the National Socialist Party an organiza-
tion in this country different from the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. Matthews. There is in the United States a National Socialist
Party, is that correct?
Mr. W^erner. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know who any of the leaders of the Na-
tional Socialist Party of the United States are?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I know two of them.
Mr. Matthews. Who are the ones that you know?
Mr. Werner. One man by the name of Otto Johannsen.
Mr. Matthews. Anfl who is the other?
Mr. Werner. Gerhard Haack.
Mr. Matthews. And you know that these two are among the
leaders of the National Socialist Party in the Ignited States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not any bund members
have dropped out of the German-American Bund and entered the
National Socialist Party?
8374 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Yes; quite a few.
Mr. Matthews. Wlien you say "quite a few," what do you mean —
a score, or do you mean more than that?
Mr. Werner. No; I will say about 40 or 50 bund members are
now members in this party.
Mr. Matthews. That you Imow of?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that I know of.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Kunze testified before this committee
a few days ago that the membership of the bund had dropped from
somewhere around 20,000 to somewhere around 10,000.
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you hear anything about an attempt to
create the impression that the German-American Bund was in a state
of decline, for propaganda purposes?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it was a couple of times said we should join
some other organization — try to go inside and try to wdn the upper
hand and bring them to our side.
Mr. Matthews. The Communists call that "boring from within."
Did you understand the same thing to be true in this connection?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, bund members were told that
they should go into other organizations and bore from within?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. But in addition to that, they also left the bund and
joined the National Socialist Party, is that correct?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. So that when Mr. Kunze says that 10,000 mem-
bers of the bund have dropped away from membership it would be
your understanding that at least some of those have gone into the
National Socialist Party?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; and to some other organizations.
Mr. Matthews. And also into other organizations?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Into what particular type of organizations
would these ex-bund members go for the purpose of "boring from
within"?
Mr. Werner. Well, all pro-Nazi organizations. Now, some of
these former bund members made them pro-Nazi.
Mr. Matthews. You mean there were organizations already set
up that were not pro-Nazi but bund members went into them?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Under instructions from the bund, and made
them pro-Nazi by these boring-from-within tactics?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Can you name some of these organizations into
which the bimd members have gone for the purpose of influencing
their policies?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please do so?
Mr. Werner. The Steuben Bund in New York.
Mr. Matthews. And that is spelled S-t-e-u-b-e-n?
Mr. Werner. That is right; and the Kyffhauserbund — the sport
club, soccer ball club, rather — Eintragt.
Mr. Matthews. Soccer football club?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8375
Mr. Wekner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. By tlie way, where is that located?
Mr. Werner. The sport club?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Werner. In Astoria.
Mr. Starnes. Do they never play any games of soccer football at
a place called Federal Hill? Do you know where Federal Hill is in
New Jersey?
Mr. Werner. In New Jersey? I don't know that.
Mr. jSIatthews. Do you think now of any other organizations into
which the members of the bund have gone to bore from within?
Mr. Werner, The Kyffhauscrbund.
Mr. Matthews. You mentioned that one and the sporting organiza-
tion, the Steuben Bund.
Mr. Werner. Yes. And there are quite a few small clubs, like
somebody come from one city like Hanover or Bremen — they have
their own clubs. A couple of members join that club and other
members join the other club.
Mr. VooRHis. ISIay I ask a question in connection with this Steuben
Society
Air. Werner. Not the Steuben Society; this is different.
Mr. VooRHis. It is a different organization from the Steuben
Society?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; altogether.
Mr. VooRHis. That is what I wanted to know. The Steuben
Society is very old and of long standing.
Mr. Werner. No; this is different.
Mr. Matthews. Is Gerhard Haack, whom you mentioned as one of
the leaders of the National Socialist Party, the manager of Kreutzer
HaU?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And Kreutzer Hall is where in New York?
Mr. Werner. 228 East Eighty-sLxth Street.
Mr. Matthews. Is that where the O. D. sometimes had its drills?
Mr. Werner. We always had drills for the last year — for the last
year we had our drills over there.
Mr. Matthews. You always had your drills in Kreutzer Hall?
Mr. Werner. Yes; and our meetings.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever have any personal contact with
Gerhard Haack?
Mr. Werner. Yes; every day I was working in that place and talked
to him every day.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go to any camps with him?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Where?
Mr. Werner. Near Nyack.
Mr. Matthews. You mean he personally escorted you to a camp
near Nyack, N. Y.
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. \Miat did you do there?
Mr. Werner. Went shortly before Christmas and chopped down
some Christmas trees and some green for the Christmas trees.
Mr. Matthews. Was that a German-American Bund camp?
Mr. Werner. No; it was not.
8376 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. What kind of a camp was that at Nyack?
Mr. Werner. This was a camp of the National Sociahst Party.
Mr. Matthews. A camp of the National Socialist Party?
Mr, Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did the German-American Bund have a unit up
near Nyack?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat kind of a unit was that?
Mr. Werner. Rockland.
Mr. Matthews. Rockland County, N. Y.?
Mr. Werner. That is right, Rockland County.
Mr. Matthews. Nyack is in Rockland County?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. ^Matthews. Do you Icnow anything about the composition of
that unit — what type of persons belonged to it?
Mr. Werner. Mostly lawyers, doctors, and merchants.
Mr. Matthews. In other words so far as you know they were
professional people?
Mr. Werner. Yes; professional people.
Mr. Matthews. And that seemed to be a special unit for profes-
sional people that was organized in Rocldand County?
Mr. Wekner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In Nyack?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Now, this morning you named quite a number of
your former associates in the O. D. and you offered photographs of
b. D. members. Are you in general familiar with the occupations
which these O. D. men held?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I am.
Mr. Matthews. Could you give a general characterization that
would applv to these men so far as their occupations go? Were they
professional people?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. How would you describe them?
Mr. Werner. They were mechanics, bakers, restaurant people;
a couple worked in a hospital as porters, and carpenters and painters.
Mr. Matthews. Well, would you say in other words that the rank
and file of the membership of the O, D. was made up of hard working
people?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And not people of means?
Mr. Werner. No, no.
Mr. Matthews. Not professional people?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. Generally speaking?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. But hard working people?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Wlio draw wages in the lower brackets
Mr. Werner. That is right
Mr. Matthews. Of income?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Now, was there any hardship imposed upon such
people in the amount demanded of them in order to belong to the
bund?
rX-AMKRICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8377
Mr. Werner. Yes; to belong; to the bund and to belong to the
O. D. it cost (luite a little bit of money every week.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever hear any expressions or feel any
pinch yourself?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did. There were quite a few fellow^s only
made $18 and $20 a week, who were married and some with a child
or two and it was pretty hard for them to meet their membership
dues and other things. They had to pay carfare and the papers w^e
had to buy. It Avas very hard for them to meet that.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever know whether Otto Williimeit from
Chicago came to address bund meetings in New York?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you see him personally?
jMr. Werner. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether Colin Ross ever addressed
an}^ meetings of the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he did.
Mr. AIatthews. TMio is Colin Ross?
Mr. Werner. I only know him as a speaker — a speaker who goes
around. He addressed a meeting here in New York. He was ad-
dressing meetings of the German-American Bund — German-American
Bimd meetings in Chicago and California.
Mr. Matthews. You mentioned this morning an occasion when a
member of the O. D. had failed to attend two or three meetings and
vras called on the carpet by the O. D. leader for having failed to attend.
I don't think you told what happened to him?
Mr. Werner. Some of them out of the ranks shouted that he was
a traitor and a spy and two O. D. men jumped up to him and hit him.
Mr. Matthews. Well, you say they hit him?
Mr. Werner. They threw him out of the meeting hall.
Mr. Matthews. Was he severely beaten, woidd you say?
Mr. Werner. His nose was bleeding and he had a puffed-up eye.
Mr. Matthews. Who was the man in charge of that occasion?
Mr. Werner. The O. D. leader, Ernst Sotzek.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know^ a Martin Heinrich who was an
O. D. member?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did Martin Heinrich have any part in the beating
of this storm trooper?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; he is one of the fellows who beat him.
Mr. Mattheavs. How did that affect you?
Mr. Werner. I was disgusted.
Mr. Matthews. WTiy?
Mr. Werner. (No answa^r.)
Mr. Matthews. Did you think the man had had an opportunity
to answer the charges or not?
Mr. Werner. He gave the excuse — he said he was working, but he
was not working. He was out dancing on tw^o nights and some of
them reported that he was not working.
Mr. Matthews. And so they set upon him without giving him a
chance?
Mr. Werner. Did not give him any chance.
Mr. Matthews. Did you receive any letters from Hans Meyer
after he arrived in Germany?
8378 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did he express himself as enjoying it or otherwise?
Mr. Werner. Yes; he wrote me that he was disappointed; he
expected much more and he was disappointed.
Mr. Matthews. He was the American citizen who went to Germany
after he received passage and instructions from the German Consulate
to go there?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. AIatthews. Did you have any difficulties as a residt of showing
Hans Meyer's letter or telling its contents to other O. D. members?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I had quite a few members — rather I will say
my closest friends in the O. D. — I showed them this letter from Hans
Meyer and they told me I shoidd not do that and I should not talk
about the letter, and after that they gave me the cold shoulder.
Mr. Matthews. What was your attitude toward boycotting Ger-
man businessmen who would not contribute to the German-American
Bund?
Mr. VooRHis. Would those be German businessmen?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. How did that affect you? Did you have any
special attitude toward that practice of boycotting German business-
men who would not contribute? Did you have any attitude toward
that practice?
Mr. Werner. No; I did not like that and on a couple of occasions
I did it myself. I told them if they didn't give me any money for this
I would not come back and buy and would tell mv friends not to come
there in their store.
Mr. Matthews. Well, did you have any suspicions of an idea that
this might be a sort of improper way of getting funds, to threaten
Germans with boycott?
Mr. Werner. No; in those days I did not but later on I did.
Mr. VooRHis. When were "those days"? Do you mean in 1938?
Mr. Werner. Later on in 1940 after I got out.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever make any protest at any bund
meetings about any of the practices that had to do with raising money
or spending money?
Mr. Werner. Yes; 1 did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what that protest was?
Mr. Werner. I made a couple of statements m O. D. meetings
between O. D. members that the bund keeps such a big office and such
a big force and we are suckers enough to pay for them ; if the office gets
closed and them fellows have to go out and work like we have they
would feel a little different.
Mr. Matthews. In other words did you think that out of your very
meager income you were supporting a top-heavy bureaucracy in the
German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And you publicly protested against that?
Mr. Werner. I did; yes.
Mr. Matthews. At a bund meeting, and how was 3^our protest
received?
Mr. Werner. Oh, verj^ cold. They did not like the idea and I
guess that it was the finish for me in the bund.
UN-AMERICAN rilOPAGANDA ACTIVITlEvS 8379
Mr. Matthews. After that did you feel that you were distinctly
set apart?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. As some one to avoid?
Mr. Werner. Yes; hardly any one talked to me anymore and
would not hardly say ''hello" on the streets anymore.
Mr. Matthews. Now, when did that happen?
Mr. Werner. In February of this year.
Mr. Matthews. That was in February of this year?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And what did you decide to do then about the
whole bund after you found that you had been isolated from the
membership of the bund as a result of your protest?
Mr. Werner. At first I didn't want to do nothing the first week or
two because there was quite a number of real nice, good fellows inside
in the O. D. and in the bund. Then I had ample time to think things
over and I missed some of these fellows and I thought it over, what
we were doing over there, them fellows and me. Most of us, we had
a pretty good job and made a pretty nice living; we could afford many
things and then it came to me we are only suckers.
Mr. Matthew's. You mean after you had stopped going to the
bund meetings in February and after some weeks of thinking this
thing over
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And looking back on it you decided that you just
had been made a sucker of?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. What did you do eventually about the matter of
your German citizenship?
Mr. Werner. In July I applied for my first papers.
Mr. Matthews. To take out citizenship papers?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matthews. By the way, do you have a German passport?
Mr. Werner. Yes. [Handing booklet to Mr, Matthews.]
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I presume the witness will have
to keep possession of this passport for the time being, but here is his
current passport which is good until 1944.
Is that correct?
Mr, Werner, That is right.
Mr. Starnes. The other members may look at the passport and of
course it should be returned to the witness.
Mr. Matthews. But in July of this year you made an appUcation
for your first papers to become an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews, Did your decision, after having been in the United
States 13 years
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews (continuing). To take out citizenship papers have
anything to do \\dth the fact that you had become disillusioned with
the bund?
Mr. Werner. Would you say that again, please?
g3§0 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. You have given some concrete things that led to
your questioning the practices of the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And you decided you had been made a sucker of
in the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And some of your friends had been made suck-
ers of?
Mr. Werner. All of them.
Mr. Matthews. All of them?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. All of them had been made suckers of in this
bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. AIatthews. And that you had come to America, you had had
opportunities with fairly good income and you had been able to buy
your home?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And those wore things that you think ma}'- not
have happened to you if you had stayed in Germany?
Mr. Werner. No ; we never could have had that in Germany.
Mr. AIatthews. Now, I want to know if this all led up to your
decision to become an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Or to try and become an American citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that is the reason.
Mr. Matthews. This disillusionment with the bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; that is right, with the bund.
Mr. Matthews. Were you ever persecuted?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. In the United States?
Mr. Werner. No, never.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a copy of the Deutscher Weckruf
und Beobachter. You have seen that paper frequently, have you not?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify that as an issue of the Deutscher
Weckruf und Beobachter?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it is.
Mr. Matthews. This is the Deutscher Weckruf und Beobachter
for October 3d, 1940. That is yesterday's paper. G. Wilhelm Kunze
is the editor of this publication?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. He is so listed on the masthead: "G. Wilhelm
Kunze, president, G. Wilhelm Kunze, editor, G. Wilhelm Kunze,
managing editor." He holds three positions?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In a sworn statement of this particular issue of the
publication.
Now, when Mr. Kunze was on the stand a few days ago he was
asked if the Weckruf had taken any position on the Tripartite Pact —
the Rome, Berlin, Tokyo Pact, which has just been concluded. I
think he answered that there had not been time for the Weckruf to
discuss it and he further stated that he would not have any position
on it because the bund did not mix in foreign politics.
rX-AIMEKK'A.N PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §3§1
Mr. Starnes. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. There is quite a lengthy editorial oii the pact,
approving it quite highly and sayhig the United States should fall in
line with the pact and keep its hands off of the affairs of foreign
countries.
That editorial appears on page 2, but I was gomg to ask the witness
about a statement in an editorial, presumably from Mr. Kiuizc, to the
effect that 30,000,000 people living in the United States, whom he
identifies as the German-American population, are about to have
their- rights and lives exterminated by violence, conducted with
Government sanction.
I want to have the witness testify whether or not he ever had any
experience in this country which by any stretch of the imagination
would justify that kind of an assertion?
Mr. Werner. No; I never have.
Air. Starnes. To what does that article have reference? Is it the
Selective Service Act or ordering the National Guard into service or
what?
Mr. Matthews. It appears to be a general article, Mr. Chairman.
It reads:
There are about 30,000,000 people living in the United States who know that
they live under a political condition which is only prolonging their civil and
political death.
and it doesn't get any more specific than that.
There are also articles against conscription.
Mr. Starnes. I believe the leaders of the bund in their testimony
said as an organization they did oppose the selective service bill, the
passage of it, and also the National Guard training bill.
Mr. Mason. Would you say, Dr. Matthews, that the editorial was
nothing but glittering generalities, vague and so forth?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir. It is a very long editorial and that is
the trend of the article. It covers a great deal of territory. It goes
back to King George the III, and brings it right down to elate.
Now, Mr. Werner, after you took out your first citizenship papers
you had not yet discussed with any outside persons the fact of your
break with the German-American Bund, had you?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. You had not discussed it with anyone?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. You had kept the matter entirely to yourself but
when you came to register as an alien in the middle of September, you
did make a notation that you had formerly been a member of the
German- American Bund?
Mr. Werner. Yes; I did,
Mr. IMatthews. Now, after you applied for your first papers to
become an American citizen, did you associate this step which you
had taken with the importance of trying to bring out the facts about
the German- American Bund?
Mr. Werner. I did not get that.
Mr. Matthews. Well, you decided to become an American citizen
if you could be admitted?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you had not talked about the bund yet?
8382 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. I wondered if there was any connection between
the fact that you decided to become an American citizen and your
wiUingness to appear before this committee?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Or to go to any other person and tell what you
knew about the real facts pertaining to the German-American Bund?
Mr. Werner. My sole reason and my sole ambition is that all my
former friends get wise to the German-American Bund and think it
over. They know they are making a living over here and making a
better living than they would in Germany; and to forget about the
bund and the things the bund is standing for and just be real Amer-
icans.
Mr. Matthews. Does the bund stand, among other things, for
the dissemination of hatred?
Mr. Werner. Yes; the bund stands for that.
Mr. Matthews. Stands for racial hatreds?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Ajid also stands for class hatreds. If you are
going to hang the bankers that is class hatred, isn't it?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. As one who aspires to becoming an American
citizen do you think that hatred has any place in the American way
of life?
Mr. Werner. No, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And you would like for your former comrades in
the German-American Bund to get wise to themselves, as you put it?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; that is right. That is my sole ambition.
I don't have any hatred or hard feelings against anybody because
most of them — they are a nice bunch of fellows. They are working
hard and most, almost all of them own a nice home, are married,
have children and they are over here in this country and they have
all the opportunity in the world, and let them be real Americans.
Mr. Matthews. Not long ago — in fact, I think it may have been
the last job you had, weren't you working in a diner where a number
of nationalities were working all together in the same place?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was that the last job you had where this took
place?
Mr. Werner. The last steady job, yes.
Mr. Matthews. The last steady job you had?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You were there as a German; was there another
German working there?
Mr. Werner. Yes; a German fellow, a Russian, an English fellow,
a Frenchman, a Canadian and a Polish fellow — two Polish fellows
and a Russian.
Mr. Matthews. And you all worked in one diner?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did that impress you as constituting a Uttle
league of nations?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you get along together?
Mr. Werner. Wonderful.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8383
Mr. Matthews. And did that come to impress itself upon your
mind as being sometliing of a picture of America in miniature?
Mr. Werner. Yes; if we work in a small place like that so nice
together we ought to be able to work in a large place togethei-.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Werner, you spoke a moment ago of the fact
that the bund had ordered its members to join other organizations?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And to work within the framework of those organi-
zations to create sympathy for the National Socialist Party or the
Nazi government?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You gave us a number of names of some groups.
Were you given any instructions other than to go into the Christian
Mobilizers?
Mr. AVerner. A few former members of the bund joined the Chris-
tian Mobilizers.
Mr. Starnes. But j^ou don't know whether it was under instruc-
tions or not?
Mr. Werner. No; we didn't have any instructions for that. We
attended some meetings and so forth or rallies.
Mr. J>tlATTHEWs. In a sense there was open collaboration, was there
not, between the Chi'istian Mobilizers and the bund?
Mr. Werner. The aim of Fritz Kulm was to be the head man of all
these organizations. He tried to unite them and he wanted the
German-American Bund to be the head of all these organizations.
Air. Starnes. Do you know whether or not any of the former bund
members joined the Knights of the White Camellia?
Mr. Werner. No, not what I know.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether an}^ of them joined Pelley's
Silver Shirt Legion?
Mr. Werner. Not that I laiow of.
Mr. Starnes. Do you Icnow whether or not they have worked
closely with the Black Shirt Legion or the Fascist groups in New
York?
Mr. Werner. The Italian Black Shirts?
Mr. Starnes. Are they tied hi with that group?
Mr. Werner. Yes, they are tied in with that group.
Air. Starnes. Have they held joint meetings to your knowledge,
the members of the bund and the Black Shirt group, have they held
joint meetings in New York City?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Were they working along the same line and follow-
ing the same program in this country?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Air. Starnes. Since the Hitler-Stalin pact of the past year, August
of 1939, has there been a change in the attitude of the bund men
and of the Storm Troopers toward the Communists in this country?
Air. Werner. Yes.
Air. Starnes. \Miat was the attituae originally? Was it rather
hostile? Didn't they attack the Communists?
Air. Werner. Yes.
Air. Starnes. Rather severely?
Air. Werner. "\Mierever we met a Communist or some Communists
we would pick a fight and they picked a fight with us and there was
a good free-for-all with pleasure.
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 15
8384 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. That happened quite often, didn't it?
Mr. Werner. Yes; it did.
Mr. Starnes. Now, since the pact have there been any further
fights between the Communist groups and the bund groups in the
New York City area?
Mr. Werner. Never since the pact was signed.
Mr. Starnes. Now, prior to the time of the pact the Germans
were constantly attacking the Communist Party through the cohimns
and editorial pages of their papers?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Have those attacks ceased since that time?
Mr. Werner. Yes; stopped almost altogether.
Mr. Starnes. Did you ever read the Daily Worker either through
curiosity or otherwise?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I guess I had it twice or three times.
Mr. Starnes. Prior to that the Daily Worker was very severe in
its attacks on nazi-ism in this country?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. But since signing the pact have those attacks in the
Daily Worker against the Nazi and Fascist movements ceased?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. In other words there has been an accord in this
country, to your personal Iviiowledge, between the Communists,
Fascists, and Nazi groups since the signing of the Stalin-Hitler pact
of the past year?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, here are two issues of the Weclcruf
which establishes the fact that at least in these issues there are no
anticommunist articles.
Mr. Starnes. They will be received as exhibits.
(The Deutscher Weckruf und Beobachter referred to were marked
"Exhibit No. 7.")
Mr. VooRHis. And prior to the signing of the pact I doubt if theie
was a single issue of the Weckruf that did not feature an attack upon
the Communists, is that right?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. At the time you joined the Friends of New Germany
and the German-American Bund, you were still a German citizen?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Your sympathies naturally were toward things
German, German culture, German heritage, and German traditions
and so forth?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. But now you have, as a result of your experiences in
the Friends of New Germany and in the German- American Bund, plus
the experiences that you have obtained or lived through in this coun-
try, have convinced you that the way you trod and the way the mem-
bers of the Friends of New Germany and the members of the German-
American Bund have trod, was the wrong wav?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And you are now applying for citizenship papers in
this country?
Mr. Werner. That i.=i right.
1'X-A:\1KK1CAN rUorAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8385
Mr. Starnes. And you joined the German-American Bund, of
course, as a German citizen in order to promote the Friends of New
German}' and the German- American Bund and al that time you were
sincere in it?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. Starnes. You were sincere at that time?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. Starnes. And you now vow equal sincerity in renouncing that
program and that faith in accepting a new faith and a new program
and a new citizenship?
Islr. Werner. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Has the German-American Bund blackhsted you or
attempted to bhicklist you with reference to the question of employ-
ment since you h,ave broken with it?
Mr. Werner. It is my impression; I can't prove it.
Mr. Starnes. You can't prove it but that is your impression?
Mr. Werner. That is my impression.
Mr. Starnes. You find it difficult if not almost impossible to ob-
tain employment since that time?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Air. Starnes. Although within 24 hours after you landed on these
shores 13 years ago 3'ou obtained employment?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And held it steadily and continuously through the
years mitil after you broke with the German-American Bund?
Mr. W^ERNER. That is right.
Mr. VooRHis. What was the apparent reason why you could not
get a job after you broke with the bund?
Mr. Werner. Emplo3mient offices would send me to a restaurant
or to a diner and the boss would tell me to start work the next morning
at 4 o'clock. I came down with my working clothes and one of the
night men would tell me: "I am sorry, the old chef is coming back."
And on other occasions the boss told me to bring my tools and work-
ing clothes the following day and I shall start to work. I came down
with my tools and working clothes and he told me: "I have some bad
news for you. I am going to keep the old chef."
I was working in a place about a week and the boss came to me and
said 'T am sorry, I have to let you go. The old chef is coming back."
And I was working for one place for 4 years and the other place for
5 years and I know I always did my \\-ork well — as good as I could and
never an}^ comphiints and now all of a sudden
Mr. Starnes. You were never discharged before from any of your
positions?
Mr. Werner. No. never. I always quit.
Mr. Starnes. In the 13 years?
Mr. Werner. Yes; never was discharged.
Mr. Starnes. And you never left any place of employment save
with a good record and good conduct?
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And I believe you stated this morning you were
never out of employment during tlie 13 years for over a week at a time?
Mr. Werner. No; tlie longest was o days.
Mr. Starnes. That was tlie longest time?
Mr. Werner. That was the longest time; yes.
8386 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. I will say for you that is an unusual record.
Mr. Voorliis, Do you liave anything further?
Mr. VooRHis. I want to ask a further question.
You mentioned something about the National Socialist Party of
the United States?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Not much has been known about that organization.
There has not been much in the press or any place else about it.
Mr. Werner. That is right.
Mr. Voorhis. How long has it been in existence in the United
States, do you know?
Mr. Werner. In the United States? I could not say.
Mr. Voorhis. You don't know?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Voorhis. WT^ien was the first time you heard of it?
Mr. Werner. It was in the fall of last year.
Mr. Voorhis. The fall of 1939?
Mr. Werner. 1939, yes.
Mr. Voorhis. And what did you hear about it at that time?
Mr. Werner. That it is a branch from Germany of the National
Socialist Party and it was to open up an office on Eighty-sixth Street.
Quite a few Germans I know belong to that. When we talk about
it we say: "The Party."
Mr. Voorhis. Do you know whether there was ever an attempt to
keep this organization extremely secret and at the same time to make
the bund as a sort of front for the activities of the National Socialist
Party so as to divert attention from it?
Mr. Werner. No; I would not say they want to keep it a secret.
If they w^ant to keep it a secret they would not make an office in the
middle of Manhattan.
Mr. Voorhis. Which do you think is the more important from the
standpoint of the Nazi movement, the German-American Bund or
the National Socialist Party?
Mr. Werner. The National Socialist Party is more important
than the bund. The bund is a hell raiser I would say; they make
a lot of noise. The National Socialist Party, they are working
quietly and my impression is that the quiet work does more harm
than the hell raising.
Mr. Voorhis. Do you know who is the head of the National
Socialist Party in the United States?
Mr. Werner. No; not of the United States I don't know.
Mr. Voorhis. You don't know that?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Voorhis. You never heard that discussed?
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. Matthews. He named two men he knows who are leaders
but not the leader.
Mr. Starnes. Among the leaders.
Mr. Voorhis. But there never would be any doubt about who the
leader of the bund was, would there?
Mr. Werner. No. They are very closely associated with the
German consulate. Every meeting they have one of the consul staff
at the meeting.
UN-AIMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES' 8387
Mr. VooRHis. Did the bund support the candidacy for Joe McWil-
liams to Congress, do you know?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Did they support him vigorously?
Mr. Werner. Yes; helped iiini to distribute some pamphlets and
attended his street meetings in Yorkville and stood guard in the
street meetings in case there should be some fighting.
Mr. VcoRHis. Was Mr. Pelley's literature ever distributed by the
bund ill bui d meetings?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir; this Schwenck sold Pelley's papers, the
Silver Shii't, I guess the name was. At quite a few big meetings we
had some fellows who were allowed to sell Pelley's papers.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, along a little bit different line. Do you
believe the German-American Bund represents the real point of view
of the average German-American who has come here from Germany,
or whose parents came here from German}^?
Mr. Werner. No. The feeling of the German people over here —
will you say the question again?
Mr. YooRHis. That is right. I asked you whether you thought
the bund represented the feeling of the people of German ancestry
who are in the United States?
Mr. Werner. No, not in general. No, not in general.
Mr. YooRHis. I wouldn't thinlv so either.
Mr. Werner. No.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you feel any less affection or loyalty to your owti
ancestry and your own people today than you did when you were an
active member in the bund?
Mr. Werner. Do I feel^ — -
Mr. YooRHis. Do you feel any less loyalty to your own German
people and your German ancestry and their traditions and so on
today than you did when you were active in the bund?
Mr. Werner. No. I feel more for my people in Germany than at
that time.
Mr. Mason. In other words your loyalty to the German ancestry
and the German people and the German culture is one thing?
Mr. Werner. Yes.
Mr. Mason. And your loyalty to Hitler and his regime and the
National Socialist Party is a different thing entirely?
Mr. Werner. Yes, sir.
Mr. YooRHis. That is the point I was trying to bring out. Do
you believe that the activities of the bund are doing a good thing or
a bad thing for the German people in the United States?
Mr. Werner. I think they are doing a lot of harm to the German
people over here.
Mr. YooRHis. Putting them in a false light?
Mr. Werner. That is riglii.
Mr. Voorhis. I think that is all.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Dempsey.
Mr. Dempsey. No questions.
!Mr. Starnes. Mr. Mason.
Mr. Mason. No further questions.
Mr. Starnes. That is all and w^e thank you very much lor your
testimony.
We hope that you will become a good American citizen.
3388 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Werner. I will try my best. I will try to make up for what I
was doing that was wrong.
Mr, VooRHis. I think the committee should, as you have already
done, express its very great appreciation for this man coming here.
He has done a courageous thing.
Mr. Starnes. His testimony has slied further light on the true
intent and purposes of the German-American Bund and the National
Socialist Party. It has served to center the attention of all of us
upon the necessity of being constantly on guard against any of these
movements, like the bund, which foster class hatred and racial hatred
and prejudices m this country. A love of our family life and our
background, the traditions of our race, or of our mother country is
one thing, but a loyalty, political loyalty and allegiance to our
adopted country is another. They need not be in contradistinction
or against each other. But with your background and with this
new land of ouis you should become a better citizen than many of
us who don't loiow what occurs over there.
Mr. Werner. I shall try my best.
Mr. Starnes. Is there anything further, Mr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. Nothing further, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Then the hearing will adjourn.
(Whereupon, at 2:30 o'clock p. m., the hearing was concluded.)
I
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PEOPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 1941
House of Representatr-es,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee to
In\'estigate Un-American Acti\tties,
Washington, D. G.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m. in the caucus room, House Office
Building, Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee), Voorhis,
and JNIason.
Also present: Mr. Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will be in order.
Chairman Dies has appointed a subcommittee consisting of Mr.
Voorhis of California, Mr. Mason of Illinois, and myself to investi-
gate the American Peace Mobilization and other groups against whom
charges have been made of seeking to disturb our national unity and
through their affiliations to disrupt production for national security.
I think all of us appreciate the fact that this is a ]nost critical period
in the history of our Nation ; that the great need of the hour is national
unity and our security can be maintained only by unprecedented pro-
duction for defense.
Certainly any individual or group of individuals who, by one
method or another, would disrupt, willfully disrupt, this production
program or willfully disturb or attempt to destroy national unity or
the confidence of our people in their ability or their capacity to govern
themselves, is a dangerous group.
This subcommittee is meeting for the purpose of investigating the
truth of assertions made by certain of these organizations and allega-
tions made concerning the nature of the work of the organizations and
whether or not they are really and truly subversive in their character.
I think it only fair to state that this committee issued three sub-
penas directed to the officers of the American Peace Mobilization, re-
questing them to bring their records to the committee and to go over
tnose records with the committee and discuss the matter. The first
two subpenas were not even acknowledged. The only acknowledg-
ment we have received to the third subpena, which was issued late in
February of this year, returnable March 4, was given by Mrs. Mont-
gomery, who appeared at the committee's office, accompanied by Mr.
Joseph Cadden, of the American Youth Congress, and Mr. Morris AVat-
kins. of the Newspaper Guild, and Mr. Lamb, and the only informa-
tion they brought or gave to the committee was one small pamphlet
which disclosed nothing.
8389
8390 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Before proceeding with the hearing of the witnesses whom we have
scheduled to be heard today, I would like to ascertain whether or not
the following parties are in the committee room with the material
which they were requested to bring by proper subpena: Mr. Arthur
B. Hersey, treasurer of the Washington Committee for Aid to China.
Mr. Hersey. Here.
Mr. fcTARNES. And Mrs. Muriel Koenigsberg, secretary of the
Washington Committee for Aid to China.
Mr. Kersey. Yes ; she is present, your honor.
]\Ir. Starnes. Mr. Hersey, you were requested by the subpena to
bring with you all of the financial records of the Washington Commit-
tee for Aid to China, including all receipts, disbursements, and contri-
butions in connection with the Chinese Christmas Bazaar, sponsored
by the Washington Committee for Aid to China, also all receipts,
disbursements, contributions in connection with the Paul Robeson
concert sponsored by the Washington Committee for Aid to China, also
a complete financial statement of funds received, expended, and dis-
bursed by the Washington Committee for Aid to China. Do you have
those records with you, Mr. Hersey?
Mr. Hersey. I have them with the exception of the financial state-
ment of the committee which I haven't been able to complete within
the rather short notice that was given to me.
Mr. Starves. All right; just stand aside, then; and, Mr. Stripling,
will you wait on Mr. Hersey about that matter?
Mr. Taub. May I address myself to you now, please ?
Mr. Starnes. No; you can't now. I haven't completed my state-
ment yet. Mrs. Koenigsberg.
]Mrs. Koenigsberg. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starves. You were subpenaed to bring with you the member-
ship list of the Washington Committee for Aid to China, also copies
of minutes of executive council meetings, also copies of a resolution
adopted by said organization, and also all official correspondence of
said organization. Do you have those with you, Mrs. Koenigsberg?
Mrs. KoENmsBERG. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you very much. Now, if you will just stand
aside, later in the day, Mr. Stripling, the secretary of the committee,
will be glad to wait on you and receive those papers and whatever
statements you wish to make. Thank you very much for appearing.
Mr. Taub. May I address myself now to you? I will appreciate
an opportunity.
]\Ir, Starnes. We are not ready to listen to any statements now.
Mr. Taub. I am counsel here for these people.
Mr. Starnes. May I say to you that the committee is merely ascer-
taining whether or not these people are present with the records.
That is all we want to know and we are now ready to proceed with
the hearing and we are not ready to hear any statement.
Mr. Taub. I just want to make a statement. I was called in yes-
terday by the committee — I am the counsel — I haven't had a chance
to consult with them. I respectfully ask you to listen for the
record. My name is Allen Taub, 175
Mr. Starnes. We are not ready to hear from you now.
Who is the first witness we will have today, Mr. Stripling?
Mr. Stripling. Miss Hazel Huffman.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8391
I\Ir. Stahxes. ]\Iiss Huffman, will you j^lease stand and raise your
ri<rht hand. Do you solenuily swear that the testimony you are
about to oive will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth so help you God ^
TESTIMONY OF HAZEL HUFFMAN, BROOKLYN, N. Y.
]\Iiss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed. Dr. ]Mattliews.
Mr. Matthews. "Will you please give j'Our full name for the
record ?
Miss Huffman. Hazel Huffman.
Mr. Matthews. "Where are you from, Miss Huffman?
Miss Huffman. From New York City.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. "What is your address?
Miss Huffman. 55 Pierpont Street. Brooklyn.
Mr. ISIatthews. Are you an American citizen ?
Miss Huffman. I am.
ISIr. Matthews. "Where were you born?
Miss Huffman. I was born in Niagara Falls, N. Y.
]\Ir. Matthews. "Will you please state briefly what your educational
training has been?
Miss Huffman. I am a New York State registered nurse and
graduate of the "University of Buffalo.
]\Ir. Matthews. And what occupations have you followed other
than nursing, if any?
Miss Huffman. "\Vell, I have been a telephone operator; I have
clerked in a store: I have been a trained nurse, ancl in my nursing
field I have done industrial nursing, private duty nursing. I was a
night sujjerintendent of a hospital in Brooklyn.
i\lr. Mattheavs. That is sufficient. You are a registered nurse in
the State of New York?
Miss Huffman. I am.
Mr. IMatthews. Have you engaged in research or investigations
on the subject of un-American and subversive activities?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. For approximately how long a period?
Miss Huffman. Just a little short of 10 years.
Mr. Matthews. Did you appear once before this committee as
a witness?
Miss Huffman. Twice before. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Twice in 1938?
Miss Huffman. Twice in 1938. I believe August and November
or December. Anyway, it is volumes 1 and 4.
Mr. Matthews." And the subject of your testimony at that time
was
Miss Huffman. Pertaining to the Federal Theater Project.
Mr. Matthews. Your testimony was in connection with the Fed-
eral Theater ]:)roject ?
]\Iiss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. ^Matthews. "Were you engaged by this committee to make an
investigation of the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
8392 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Have you made such an investigation ?
Miss Huffman. I have.
Mr. Matthews. During the past year ?
Miss Huffman. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Did your investigations cover the entire history
of the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews, What did you find with respect to the origin of
the American Peace Mobilization and its relationship to the Ameri-
can League for Peace and Democracy?
Miss Huffman. The American League for Peace and Democracy
had become rather dormant. The organization was not operating
actively except for a few groups that were struggling to still main-
tain a peace, so-called peace program. Then around the first week
in June 1940 Israel Amter and Charles
Mr. Matthews. Just a minute. The American League for Peace
and Democracy was formally disbanded in February of 1940, was
it not?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; it was formally disbanded but some of
the smaller groups, possibly because of their social aspects, still were
holding on. They had some rather unimportant meetings during that
period of time. They hadn't completely disbanded. For instance,
the Niagara Peace Council was still having meetings under the name
of the Niagara Peace Council.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you were about to say that something hap-
pened in June of 1940 ; what was that ? •
IVIiss Huffman. From around January 1 up to June certain groups
in labor had come out with a program, certain youth groups had
come out with a peace program. I believe that was following a
special peace program that had been issued from the Soviet Union,
but they were not connected groups. Then in June of 1940, for New
York State this would be, Israel Amter and Charles Krumbein —
that is., the New York State chairman and secretary of the Com-
munist Party of the United States
Mr. Matthews. Is that Israel A-m-t-e-r?
Miss Huffman. A-m-t-e-r; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. He is chairman of the New York State Committee
of the Communist Party?
Miss Huffman. I believe so.
Mr. Matthews. And Charles Krumbein?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. State secretary of the Communist Partv of New
York?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. They issued orders to all section organ-
izers throughout New York State to organize peace groups in their
various sections, branches, and units. It is natural to conclude that
this same order went out from other State secretaries in the various
States. At least our findings show that similar action was taken
in all the States as was taken in New York State.
Mr. Matthews. But you only know the express order as coming
from Krumbein and x\mter?
Miss Huffman. From Krumbein and Amter; yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8393
Mr. IMatthews. But the same effects that followed in New York
were also noticed throughout the ITnited States?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRiiis. Just a minute — who are Amter and Krumbein? I
mean what oi-oanization did they issue these orders to? To what
section organizers?
Miss Huffman. It was the orders issued to all sections for New
York State, all sections and branches and units.
Mr. VooRHis. Of Avhat?
Miss Huff^ian. Of the Communist Party.
ISIr. VooRHis. How do you know they did that?
Miss Huffman. This information came from a most reliable
source — a man who was a member of one of the units.
]\Ir. VooRHis. Did he tell you about this?
Miss Huffman. He testified to that — he gave us that information
under oath, ves.
Mr. VooRHis. I mean do you have documents there with reference
to that ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. May I, perhaps, help in clearing this up? In the
course of your investigation you relied to some extent upon the work
of informers inside of the Communist Party, is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews And this particular informaton about the orders
was obtained through such informers?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And is it your finding that the order, at least, is
in entire agreement with the developments which took place later ?
Miss Huffman. Completely. These orders were to the effect that
the groups were to be conducted under nonpartisan affiliations and
they stressed the importance of keeping the Communist Party in the
background and under no circumstances was the party to sponsor
any of the original peace organizations or any of the demonstrations
by these peace organizations.
The order stressed that the original organizers of the peace groups
should be comprised of the individuals from the following groups
and organizations: Section and branch chairman of each assembly
district of the Communist Party. Executives from the shop and in-
dustrial branches of the Communist Party. Leading Connnunists
from Conmumist-front organizations, and fellow-travelers from the
various trade-unions, fraternal and religious groups and so forth.
Communist executives and fronts frf)m the Workers Alliance, Na-
tional Maritime Union, American Labor Party, left-wing, Abraham
Lincoln Brigade, Tenants League, Jewish People's Connnittee,
Friends of the Soviet Union, American Council on Soviet Relations,
and various other similar groups.
Under the orders each peace committee or organization was to
adopt a different title, for instance, there would be the West Side
Peace Council, the New York Peace Committee, the New York Peace
Conference, the Coordinating Committee for Peace; the West Side
8394 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
group, the Harlem group, all of them appearing to be spontaneous
and individual organizations, having no link or connection with the
others.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, did you name the New York
Peace Association in that list?
IMiss Huffman. I believe I named the New York Peace Committee.
Mr. Mattheavs. You gave them as examples of the titles?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now did you find that an organization was set up
known as the New York Peace Association?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. I was not listing all of the organizations
that were set up. I was merely giving examples of the type of names
that were to be used. That is the way the order was issued, you see.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photostatic copy of a throwaway;
have you seen that ?
(Handing document to the witness.)
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. This was obtained at one of the meet-
ings and this confirms the list that I gave previously, of the groups
that were to be set up — Mothers Club, United American xVrtists,
United Action Against Fascism and Anti-Semitism, International
Workers Order, Jewish People's Committee, American Fiiends of
the Chinese People, and the Coordinating Connnittee Against
Profiteering.
Mr. Matthews. And the entire meeting was under the auspices of
the New York Peace Association?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this be incorporated in
the record at this point,
Mr. Starxes. It is so ordered.
(The document was marked "Huffman Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Matthews. You may proceed.
INIiss Huffman. The orders as issued by Mr. Amter and Mr.
Krumbein went on further to state that all sti-eet meetings were to
be under the auspices of some union or organization and they were
all to follow strictly the party line. The speakers were to discourse
strictly along Communist Party lines and the speakers at street meet-
ings, and I quote this :
Will only be allowed to speak after they have showu credentials which will
be furnished each contemplated speaker by the Cominmiist Party section
chairman.
Mv. VooRHis. You say you quote that ? What do you quote it from ?
Miss Huffman. That was given to us by the man who was in this
group ; it is a direct quote regarding the street meetings.
Mr. VooRHis. But you haven't it from any official document or any-
thing like that ?
Miss HuFFiMAN. It came from an official source, Congressman
Voorhis.
Mr. VooRHis. What source was that, that is what I am trying to
get at.
Miss Huffman. I was asked not to divulge that source in open
hearing. I shoidd be very glad to give the source of that information
in executive hearing because it would interfere with the further ac-
tivities of this particular party for this particiUar agency.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8395
Mr. Starnes. You can <iive that information to Mr. Voorhis in an
executive session.
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
INIr. ^Iattiieavs. ]\Iiss Huffman, do you know vluit the New York
address of the American Peace Mobilization national headquarters is?
Miss Huffman. The address of the national headquarters is 1133
Broadway, New York City — that is Broadway just above Twenty-
sixth Street. I believe it is on the fourth floor. I would not be too
sure of the lloor.
Mr. Matthews. Now I show you a copy of a publication called The
Peace Reporter, issued by the New York Peace Association, the organ-
ization which you have identified as being one of the local groups
set up.
Mii^s Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In compliance with this alleged order of Krum-
bein and Amter. The address of the New York Peace Association was
1133 Broadway, which is now the address of the national headquarters
of the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; that is the national headquarters. The
New York office is at 381 Fourth Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you spoke of the line which was to be accept-
able in these programs as being the line of the Communist Party, did
you not ?
Miss Huffman. I mentioned the fact that the speakers were to
follow strictly the so-called party line.
Mr. Matthews. The Conmiunist Party line?
Miss Huffman. The Connnunist Party line; yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. jVIr. Chairman, at this point I ask to have introduced
into the record tlie editorial from the June 1940 issue of the Peace
Reporter, published by the New York Peace Association, which sets
forth the line of the New York Peace Association.
Mr. Starnes. That is in corroboration of ]Miss Huffman's testimony ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; it is in corroboration of the facts that Miss
Huffman gave with reference to the New York Peace Association line
being the line of the Communist Party.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit
No. 2.")
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, will you j^roceed?
Miss Huffman. The State committee especially urged, that is,
the New York State committee of the Connnunist Party, especially
urged that attention be given to the Italian sections, and this was
given to me as before. Congressman Voorhis, as a direct quote of
the order given out by Mr. Amter and Mr. Krumbein :
Since Italy entered the war, a wonderful field is open for uniting the
Italian people to support the Communist Party peace program because the
Italian i>ei)ple will be the center of attack by the warmongers and advocates
of the war hysteria which will brand them as fifth columnists.
^Ir. ]MATTnEws. Do you kn(jw whether or not the Communist
Party lias carried out that instruction and engaged in special activi-
ties among Italians in New York?
Miss Hutfman. Yes, sir; Dr. Matthews, because I am going into
the organization of the lower East Side of New York, which was
8396 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
carried on by the Communist Party members of the Italian division
of the Communist Party — the Italian bureau of the Communist
Party, to be exact.
Mr. Matthews. All right.
Miss HuFFMAx. This list were the leaders for the Communist
Party of the lower East Side and they were delegated to organize
the lower East Side. They included Louis Hanover.
]SIr, Matthews. Will you please spell these names for the reporter,
Miss Huffman?
Miss Huffman. L-o-u-i-s H-a-n-o-v-e-r. His real name is Louis
Yanover — Y-a-n-o-v-e-r. He is section chairman of the Tom Paine
branch of the Communist Party, located at 289 Bleeker Street.
Tony Morano. He was chairman of the Gaiibaldi branch of the
Communist Party, located at 107 MacDougal Street. That is in
Manhattan.
Gino Bardi, editor of L'Unita del Popolo, which is termed the
Communist-Italian paper. That is located at 80 East Eleventh Street.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether 80 East Eleventh Street
is headquarters for a large number of Communist Party organi-
zations ?
Miss Huffman. It is; and Doctor, right there I might mention
that — and I am talking now about June 1940, but this editor, Gino
Bardi, is one of the most active speakers at the present time. Within
the past 2 weeks he has made speeches at three and four meetings
a day.
Mr. Matthews. Meetings of what?
Miss Huffman. Covered three or four meetings a day for the
American Peace Mobilization, whei-e he has been the speaker and
the organizer, always stressing the Italian aspect.
Mr. Matthews. Is 80 East Eleventh Street the same address as
799 Broadway ? Do you happen to know what ?
Miss Huffman. I would have to figure that out. I prefer not to
answer that now. Then for the same ])aper we have the associate
editor, Mary Ratti. Her party name, Maria Testa, is given to us
in tliis report which is also the name under which she has been
speaking for the American Peace Mobilization. She is the wife of
Carl Petrino and is also a member of the Italian bureau of the
Communist Party.
Carl Petrino is chairman of section 31 of the Communist Party
and was a candidate for Congress from the second assembly district
on the Communist Party ticket.
Mr. IMatthews. That would be the Second Congressional Dis-
trict rather than the second assembly district if he was running for
Congress ?
Miss Huffman. This was given as assembly; it should be Con-
gressional District; yes.
Alex Schwartzman of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and Ralph
Simola of the Italian Bureau of the Comnuniist Party; Teito Nuzio
of the Italian Bureau of the Communist Party; Bob Lesser, chair-
man of local No. 10 of the Workers' Alliance, located at No. 9 Jones
Street; Robert Meiron of the National Maritime Union; Martin
Ludwig of the ^Vbraham Lincoln Brigade and executive branch No.
2 of the Communist Party for the East Side.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8397
Mr. VooRHis, Who are these people?
Mr. Matthews. These people are the people who were delegated
to organize the lower East Side of New York for the peace move-
ment. They were ordered by the Comnumist Parly executives at
the time this official order was given out to the sections and units.
Mr. VooKHis. You are going to leave the Italians for the time
being?
Miss HurriMAN, I just have one more name. Congressman Voorhis:
Beatrice JMcCullem, a Comnuuiist Party member and executive of the
Tenants' League.
Now, that is just a group that was ordered to organize the East
Side. Similar groups were ordered to organize the West Side, the
Harlem area, and the Bronx, and various other sections of the
country.
]Mr. Matthews. Now, the Congressman asked yon if yon were
going to leave the Italians?
Mr. Voorhis. I thought there was one question that might go in
here. I wanted to ask whether you secured any substantial evidence
that any work had been done with the Italian groups that were not
Connnunists?
Mr. Starnes. In other words, did you secure any evidence about
Fascist groups being used in these peace drives?
]Mr. Voorhis. What I want to know is, you said that there was
great emphasis to be placed on the Italians. Of course, everybody
knows there has been a very bitter and sharp division between the
Italian people for a long time; and the Italians that were Com-
munists themselves, there wouldn't be any difficulty about working
with them. I want to know whether the significance of that state-
ment had to do with an attempt to bring in other Italian people
into this supposed peace mobilization and whether there had been
any success in attempting to do that?
iiliss HuFFMAx. I don't believe I understand your question.
Mr. Mat^thews. I wonder if I can help clear that up. You have
read the Daily Worker rather regularly during the past year?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You spoke a moment ago about this order being
directed to work among the Italians because they would be the vic-
tims of the warmongers; isn't that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]SrATTHEW\s. Now, have you read editorials in the Daily
Worker which deal with that question?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. May I ask you if those editorials do not reflect
this viewpoint, that the Comnumist Party tells the entire Italian
po})ulation, as it were, that because the United States may become
involved in a conflict with Italy, the entire Italian population will
be subjected to suspicion on the i^art of their non-Italian neighbors^
Miss Huffman. Yes, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. And that therefore the Communist Party hopes to
exploit that fact to win members of the Italian population generallv
to its program?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That is what you meant?
8398 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; and that is a point that is stressed by
Gino Bardi and Maria Testa in the speeches they made. They are
constantly dwelling on that phase of it.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, you were going to take up
some of the other groups around New York City. Did you conclude
that part of your statement ?
Miss Huffman. Similar groups were set up in the various areas
and sections. Each designated area, such as the East Side, West Side,
Harlem, the Bronx, Brooklyn, had their own particular group of dele-
gates who did the organizing. That was specifically set up by the
Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. All right. WiJl you proceed?
Miss Huffjvuan. The first large public activity was on Memorial
Day of 1940, at which time an attempt was made by some of these
peace groups to circulate war circulars at the ceremonies of the Rhine-
lander Post of the American Legion.
There had been several street fights. Several of them had been
beaten and assaulted and as a result of that having happened, Eugene
P. Connolly, chairman of the New York County American Labor
Party, left wing, telegraphed protests to Mayor LaGuardia and
Police Commissioner Valentine charging the police with failing to
provide adequate protection. Along about that time Mr. Connolly
issued the statement defending Representative Vito Marcantonio's
sole vote against the President's defense program, stating that one
vote had the full support of the rank and file of the American Labor
Party.
Mr. Mattheavs. Now have you found that Eugene P. Connolly
is active in the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
ISIr. Matthews. Will you give some of the facts on that point?
In what way has he been active other than telegraphing this protest
to Mayor LaGuardia and Police Commissioner Valentine ?
Miss Huffman. As head of the organization of the left wing of
the American Labor Party. They have been very active in the
group
Mr. Matthews. Is this so-called left wing of the American Labor
Party officially known as the Progressive Committee to Rebuild the
American Labor Party?
jNIiss Huffman. I had always felt that was one of the slogans they
used rather than it beino- the official title. It mioht be the official
title.
Mr. INIatthews. Well, it is the Progressive Committee to Rebuild
the American Labor Party ?
ISIiss Huffman. Yes, sir.
]Mr. VooRHis. I think it is rather important to distinguish that
from the American Labor Party as such. I think it is rather im-
portant to distinguish that from the American Labor Party.
Mr. Mait^iiews. That is what I wanted to bring out.
Miss Huffman. In all references I make to the American Labor
Party, left wing, I am referring to the group that is headed by Morris
Watson, Eugene P. Connolly, Herman
Mr. VocRHis. I understand that perfectly well. Miss Huffman, but
a lot of people might not understand it, and I think it is important
UN-AMERICAN I'llUl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8399
that it be made clear tliat is not the American Labor Partj' as such —
it is simply a dissident gronj) within.
Miss IIuFFMAN. Yes, sir.
JNIr. ISIatthews. Did you have some more on Eugene P. Connolly's
participation in the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss HuFFMAX. Well, he is a sponsor of the American Peace
Mobilization.
Mr. ISIatthews. You mean he is a national sponsor?
i\liss Huffman. He is a national sponsor of the American Peace
Mobilization.
ISIr. Matthews. And so listed officially on their literature?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; then another one of the large groups that
was set up at that time and was particularly active on this Memorial
Day in 1940, was the group known as the AVest Side ^lothers' Peace
Committee. They had presented a petition, an antiwar petition, to
Congressman Bloom and Congressman Barton in which there were
10,000 mothers' signatures. That group is still very active as of the
present day.
Under their new title, which is "The AVomen's Division of the
American Peace Mobilization,'' and that group is headed by Dr. An-
nette T. Rubenstein, who is princijial of the Robert Louis Stevenson
School at 804 West Eighty-eighth Street in New York City, and Dr.
Rubenstein headed the delegation at that time.
Mr. ]\L^TTHEWs. Delegation to what?
Miss HuFFiviAN. Delegation that presented that petition of the
10,000 mothers' signatures. At that time Dr. Rubenstein denied she
had any Communist affiliations. From that time on Dr. Rubenstein
has been very active with the grou]:> and
JNIr. Matthews. Do you mean the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. The American Peace jMobilization. And the Com-
munists in the American Peace Mobilization — I hope I can make this
clear because it is more than just a term of endearment — Dr. Ruben-
stein is constantly being described to me by people who are Coni-
munists and people who are members of the American Peace Mobili-
zation as "the darling of the peace movement." At a meeting she
spoke at 2 weeks ago, I have the exact date here, she mentioned that
she had spoken at four meetings that day and her mother had spoken
at three and for the past week she had been speaking at from three
to four meetings. She is head of the women's division of the Amer-
ican Peace ^Mobilization.
]Mr. Matthews. Now, these various local groups were set u]> in
New York, and also such specialized committees as the mothers' peace
group ?
Miss Huffman. The Mothers' West Side Peace Connnittee, which
Dr. Rubenstein at this time admitlod was affiliated with the New York
Peace Association.
Mr. ]Matthews. Now, what was the next step in bringing all of
these gi'oups together?
Miss Huffman. On August 4, a People's Rally for Peace was held at
Randalls Island
Mr. Matthews. Where is Randalls Island?
Miss Huffman. Randalls Island is in New York City, in Manhat-
tan. At this rally the speakers were John P. Davis, of the National
62626 — 41— vol. 14 10
8400 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Negro Congress ; Miss Jean Horie, of the New York Youth Congress ;
Rabbi Moses Miller, of the Jewish People's Committee; Harry Van
Ardsdale, president of Local No. 3 of the International Brotherhood
of Electrical Workers ; and Congressman Vito Marcantonio.
There were about 10,000 peoople who attended this rally. I be-
lieve the police department estimated 10,000 — it wasn't the organiza-
tion's estimate. And prominent among them were members of the
Workers' Alliance, the American Student Union, the National Negro
Congress, the American Youth Congress, National Maritime Union,
and some branches of the Communist Party.
A telegram was read at that meeting from Joseph Curran, express-
ing his regrets at not being able to attend.
Mr. Matthews. Is Joseph Curran actively associated with the
American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. Is he a sponsor or official of the organization?
Miss Huffman. He is a sponsor and also a member of the Na-
tional Council.
Mr. Matthews. And he is also head of the National Maritime
Union; is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; he is president of the National Maritime
Union and a member of the International Labor Defense.
Mr. Matthews. What was the name of this rally held on August 4,
1940? Did they have a special name for it?
Miss HuTTMAN. The People's Rally for Peace of the Emergency
Peace Conference.
Mr. Matthews. Could you say that this rally received a very ex-
traordinary backing and pushing by the Daily Worker?
Miss Huffman. Oh, it was both advertised — it was distinctly a
Daily Worker-publicized affair.
Mr. Matthews. Could you say it was the chief feature in the Daily
Worker for a number of days?
Miss Huffman. Oh, yes; both before and after. The next large
activity was the American Peace Mobilization which was held in
Chicago stadium on August 31.
Mr. Matthews. The Emergency Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; the Emergency Peace Mobilization on
August 31. This call went out to all the prominent fronts of the Com-
munist Party to come to the aid of the party in putting this gigantic
rally across. That information came from the same man that was
a member of these branches and these units. The order had gone out
to all of them to give both financial and personal support to putting
over this rally.
Mr. Matthews. Before you go ahead with that, I show you a photo-
static copy of a letter dated August 10, 1940. This letterhead bears
the name of the Committee to Defend America By Keeping Out of
War.
Miss Hitffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. And the letter has to do witli the holding of an
Emergency Peace Mobilization in Chicago over the Labor Day week-
end : is that correct ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
UN-AxMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §401
Mr. IVIatthews. And the letterhead on front and back side has a
list of the S])onsors of this Connnittee to Defend America By Keep-
ing Out of War?
]\Iiss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Have you seen this letter before?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify this as one of the pieces of litera-
ture in the early stages of the organization of the American Peace
]Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The name "Committee to Defend America By
Keeping Out of War" was dropped, was it not, in favor of the
Emergency Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Emergency Peace Mobilization ; yes, sir.
Mr. IMatihews. And at the Chicago conference the name then
became the "American Peace Mobilization," is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this be introduced in
the record at this point, but I would like to ask Miss Huffman if it
is not true that some of the persons who appeared as sponsors of
the organization at that time have withdrawn after having learned
that the organization was under the control of the Communist Party.
Have you learned such?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You have made a check of this personnel against
the subsequent personnel, have you not?
Miss HuFFiNiAN. Yes, sir; but the point on that is not only that
they withdrew — some of them did not withdraw because of the
Communist domination. At least there was some newspaper pub-
licity given to the fact that some of them claimed that their names
had been used without their consent or their approval, I mention
that because two of the girls working in the national office in New
York City explained to me that the sponsors on the call and the
sponsors on the American Peace Mobilization folder that was dis-
tributed at tlie Mecca Temple rally — that is a blue folder that has a
list of names — that they had in writing in their office, the acceptance
of the sponsorship. The fact that they had written accepting the
sponsorship of the American Peace Mobilization so that this sort of
thing wouldn't happen again to discredit them, so the people could
say their names were used without consent.
Mr. Matthews. What I want to have in the record, Mr. Chairman,
is this : That the names which appear on this list and do not appear
on subsequent lists as sponsors of the American Peace Mobilization,
should not be considered as now active in the organization.
Mr. VooRHis. I think those names should be very clearly pointed
out.
Mr. Matthews. That will be a matter of checking, say 99 names
against 89, or something like that, to be sure they do not appear
subsequently.
Mr. Starnes. They will be incorporated in tlie record and then
T would like for you to make a statement later or insert a statement
rather, sliowing those wlio have subsequently withdrawn and that
will keep the record straight.
8402 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. We don't happen to know in every instance why th&
name does not appear in subsequent lists.
Miss Huffman. I believe in going through the file we can make
up such a list.
Mr. Starnes. Of course you don't know why but you can insert it.
Mr. Matthews. I would like to ask that tliis be made a part of
the record.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit
No. 3.")
Mr. Matthews. I have one more question on this letter: In this
conmiunication, the statement is made that the prominent speakers
at the Chicago conference would include Senators Nye and Clark?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Senators Nye and
Clark both refused to attend this meeting when they learned that
it had connections or affiliations with the Communist Party?
Miss Huffman. I believe they did. At least they were not speakers
there.
Mr. Matthews. They publicly withdrew?
Miss Huffman. They publicly withdrew; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you atteaid this Randall's Island meeting
about which you spoke a moment ago, the one held on August 4, 1940 ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir, Dr. Matthews; may I go into the meeting
that was held at Steinway Hall where the report from the Chicago
conference rally was given?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. I wanted to bring out if it was a fact that
5^ou yourself were attending these meetings almost from the beginning
of this organization or from the very beginning ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You personally attended them?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. So you know what went on at these meetings ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now, after the Chicago conference, what was the
first meeting held in New York?
Miss Huffman. Well, divisional meetings were held around the
various places. The meetings that I attended at that time were
principally the midtown group. That was the Mid-Manhattan Peace
Council that held the meeting at Steinway Hall and I also attended
some of the meetings that were held by the upper Manhattan group.
That was the Washington Heights group.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you say there was a meeting at Steinway
Hall?
Miss PIupfman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What was the date of that meeting?
Miss Huffman. That was September 15, 1940, immediately after
the Chicago meeting.
Mr. Matthews. Did you attend that meeting?
Miss Huffman. I did.
Mr. Matthews. And will you please state briefly what transpired
at .that meeting?
Miss Huffman. The open discussion before the meeting, which
was led off by Ira Klein, discussing the transfer of the 50 destroyers
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIA^TIES 8403
to the British and lie brou<iht out a lot of the aspects of the transfer
and hud so worked up the audience that I wondered whether they
•would ever come to order. This was a prenieeting discussion.
I am only bringincj that in because it seemed to me that it was a
piece of ajiitation work to get the ivst of the meetino- into the sj)irit of
the meeting. It was a little unusual. Perhaps I am not making
mj'self clear.
Mr. Maitheavs. Who was the man ?
Miss Huffman. Iia Klein.
Mr. ISlAn-HFAVs. By the way, do you know who was in charge of
the housing and arrangements for the Chicago meeting of the Emer-
gency Peace Mobilization.
IVIiss Huffman. Yes, sir; Abbott Simon, the committee secretary,
•Chicago committee secretary.
Mr. Matthews. AVill you spell that, please?
Miss Huffman. S-i-m-o-n.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Abbott Simon was
also in charge of housing arrangements for the gathering of the
American Youth Congress in the city of Washington in February of
1940?
^Nliss Huffman. Yes, sir. Mr. Simon was in charge in Chicago,
<and Walter Xeff took charge of all the New York arrangements.
They were the two heads of the committee. If I may, there is one
thing I didn't go into at the time they were setting up these various
organizations in New York. I am going back a little now.
Along with this West Side Mothers' Club that was set up, there is
another women's organization that is still very powerful as of the
present day, that is the Trade Union Women's Committee. It was
first set u}) and is now a division of the American Peace Mobilization,
and that group was formed by B:dla V. Dodd, of the Teachers' Union,
and Mrs. Miriam Murphy, of the Transport Auxiliary.
The original committee for the Trade Union Women's Committee
Avas Miss Mary Lucille INIcGorky, president of the New York district.
State, County, and Municipal Workers' Union; ]\Iiss Norma Aronson,
manager of Local 16 of the United Office and Professional Workers
of America, C. I. O. ; Miss Esther Letts, vice president of Local 65 of
the United AVh.olesale and Warehouse Emploj-ees' Union of tlie
C I, (). ; Mrs. Frieda Jordan, secretary of the Bakers' Union Auxil-
iary of the American Federation of Labor; Miss Dora Jones, organ-
izer of the Domestic Workers' Union, of the American Federation of
Labor; Mrs. Ona Luebke, president of the Architects and Engineers
and Technicians Union Auxiliary, C. I. O. ; Mrs. Winifred Crost, sec-
retary of the Photo Engravers' Union Auxiliary, American Feder-
ation of Lal)or; Mrs. Mabel Pollock, ])resident of the New Yoi'k
Newspaper Guikl Auxiliary; Miss Ann Wliarton, oiganizer of the
United Federal Workers, and ]\Iiss Jane Filley, educational director
of Local 1250 of the Department Store Workers' Union of the C. I. O.
I mention that. Dr. Matthews, because of their pronounced activi-
ties at the present time.
Mr. Matthews. You were reading from a page of the Daily Worker
for June 27, 1940 ?
Miss Huff:man. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Page 5, were you not ?
8404 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Huffman. I was; and I also attended two of their meetings,
and that has all been rechecked, so I am not just reading a newspaper
clipping because all of those names and their activities were rechecked,
and the fact that they had participated in the subsequent meetings.
Mr. Matthews. And these women were members of the women's
organization — the Trade Union Women's Committee for Peace?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Headed by Bella V. Dodd, of the Teachers' Union ;
is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, we would like for you to stand
aside, if you don't mind, for the next witness.
Mr. Starnes. Who is your next witness?
Mr. Matthews. Miss Mary Spargo.
TESTIMONY OF MARY SPAEGO, INVESTIGATOR EOR THE SPECIAL
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Miss Spargo, will you please stand and raise your
right hand ? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that j^ou shall
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Miss Spargo. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Now, will you please give your name for the record ?
Miss Spargo. Mary Spargo Wardell.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born. Miss Spargo?
Miss Spargo. Yonkers, N. Y.
Mr. Matthew\s. Will you please state briefly your educational train-
ing?
Miss Spargo. Riverhook School for Girls, the Bennington, Vt., High
School, and the University of Vermont.
INIr. Matthews. What is your profession?
Miss Spargo. A newspaper woman — I mean it was.
Mr. Matthew^s. What newspaper experience have you had ?
Miss Spargo. I worked on a number of papers. My last experience
was on the Washington Daily News.
Mr. Matthews. When did you work on the Washington Daily News ?
Miss Spargo. Up until March 27 from last September.
Mr. Matthews. Are you now an investigator for the committee —
for this committee ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What was your s]:)ecial assignment after you became
an investigator for this committee?
Miss Spargo. My assignment was to investigate particularly the
Washington angle of the American Peace Mobilization and the part
that Government workers played in it.
Mr, Matthews. Will you please outline in chronological order, as
far as possible, just how you went about investigating the American
Peace Mobilization here in Washington, and subsequently elsewhere.
Miss Spargo. I attended a meeting of the Washington Newspaper
Guild outside — that was, I believe, on March 26.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a member of the Newspaper Guild ?
Miss Spargo. I am. Outside the door of the District Building was a
man who later identified himself to me as Louis Kolb. He had a letter
UN-AMERICAX TKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8405
from Mrs. Moiitaoniery. Mrs. Surah V. Montixompry. idoiitifyiii<r liiiu
as a distributor of literature for the American I'oace ^Mobilization.
Mr. Matthews. Will you identify INIrs. Montoomery at this point,
with respect to her connections with the American Peace Mobi-
lizations?
^Nliss Spargo. She is secretary-treasurer of the Washington branch.
1 believe she is so listed, Dr. Matthews.
Mv. Matthkws. And she had signed the credentials for Louis
Kolb?
iNIiss Spargo. Yes, sir.
]Mr. JNIatthews. All riaht. "WHiat did you do after vou met Louis
Kolb?
Miss Spargo. He had these handbills so I asked him if I might
have one and I looked them over and told him that I was very much
interested in the Peace Mobilization. He asked me if it would be
possible for me to persuade the Washington Newspaper Guild to
let him speak to them. He said: "You are interested.'' I said: "I
am very much interested, but it would be impossible for me to per-
suade the Washington Newspaper Guild to have a representative of
the Peace Mobilization speak to them because the Washington News-
paper Guild is very strongly opposed to this movement." I said :
"However, there is no reason why I can't take a personal interest
in it.''
]Mr. Matthews. Now what did you do next in the way of learn-
ing about the American Peace Mobilization'^
ISIiss Spargo. I went next into the local headquarters at 1116 Ver-
mont Avenue, at that time, and saw Mrs. Montgomery, taking with
me the literature which INIr. Kolb had been distributing. I told Mrs.
]Montgomery that I was very much interested in the Peace
Mobilization.
JNIr. Matthews. Did you join the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. In a sort of fashion. I was ver}- active in it. I
never got a membership card.
Mr. Matthews. AVell, what did you do in the way of joining?
iVIiss Spargo. I went to the meetings with them and did some
little work at their headquarters and that kind of thing.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever see anything like an application
blank or anything tliat you fill out to become connected with the
American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. No; Dr. Matthews, I did not.
Mr. Matthews. You never saw any such thing?
Miss Spargo. No: I did not. I do know that they had member-
ship lists, but I did not see any application blanks.
Mr. IVLvtthews. Did you offer your services in any way whatsoever
to Mrs. Montgomery at the headquarters of the American Peace
Mobilization ?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. And did you do any work in the office?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I did.
]\Ir. Matihews. AVill you ])lease describe briefly what that was?
Miss Spargo. Oh, I folded throw-outs and handbills and that kind
of thing.
Mr. Matthews. And how long did you do that?
Miss Spargo. I would have to have mv notes for the exact dates.
§406 UN-AMERICAN PliOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Never mind the exact dates.
Miss Spargo. Approximately a month.
Mr. Matthews. That is you were in the headquarters quite regu-
larly for approximately a month?
Miss Spargo. In and out.
Mr. Matthews. Did you express any desire to attend
Miss Spargo. Oh, I am sorry; I worked on the Graphic Arts
Committee. That was a committee making posters and lay-outs and
that kind of thing.
Mr. Matthews. Did you express any desire to attend the meeting
■of the American Peace Mobilization held in New York
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Early in April?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; I did. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. And will you please describe how you went about
that?
Miss Spargo. I just went in and asked Mrs. Montgomery about it
and said that I would like to go and learned about the arrangements
for buying tickets.
She said that they were not selling tickets until the next day and
that the people who handled the tickets would be in the next day.
I went down the next day and saw Samuel Schmerler and Helen
Schmerler, who were in charge of tickets. Morton Friedman was
another who was in charge of transpoi-t ation.
Mr. Mati'hews. Where did yoa see them?
Miss Spargo. At the headquarters on Vermont Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. And did you obtain transportation to go to the
New York meeting from Schmerler, or how did you get your trans-
portation?
jNIiss Spargo. I am not ci[uite sure from which person I obtained
the transportation. Dr. Matthews. I believe that I bought my ticket
from Mrs. Helen Schmerler.
Mr. INIatthews. Did you pay for it?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was it a cut rate on a special train or special car?
Miss Spargo. It was on a special trahi to take the Washington dele-
gation down.
Mr. Matthews. Well, you are sure that you made arrangements to
go to New York with this committee; is that right?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. But you don't happen to remember which one
actually took the cash out of your hand; is that what you mean?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. AVho was in charge — any one of these individuals
in particular?
Miss Spargo. Morton Friedman was named as being in charge of
transportation but Samuel Schmerler and Helen Schmerler were
equally active. It depended — I mean it depended on which hour of
the day you went in there. There were diiferent people in charge
as you can imagine — they are working people and cannot spend all
their time there.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify Sam Schmerler as to his occupa-
tion?
Miss Spargo. He works in the Federal Security Agency.
UN-AMEKICAN PUOPAOANDA ACTIVITIES 8407
Mr. Matthews. Federal Security Administration or Agency?
IMiss Sparoo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Is he eniploj'ed there now?
Miss Spaego. I believe so.
Mr. Matthews. Have you made a check on whether or not he is
employed there?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; I checked with civil service, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. And according- to that check he is employed at
the Federal Security Administration?
]\Iiss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Is Mrs. Schmerler employed anywhere in the Gov-
ernment ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, Dr. Matthews. I will have to have my papers.
Mr. JSIatthews. AVhere is Mrs. Schmerler employed ?
Miss Spargo. I don't seem to have that there. My recollection is
that she is with the Railroad Retirement Board.
ISIr. Matthews. Have you made a check on her employment?
Miss Spargo. Yes, Dr. Matthews, but I am not well prepared on
these names.
]\Ir. ]Matthews. Is that because you happen to have several
hundred ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir. I don't know that we have several hundred
but we have a great many and I have not had time to prepare the
definite listing of those names.
Mr. INIatthews. Do you know where Morton Friedman is em-
ployed ?
Miss Spargo. I do not, Dr. ]\Iatthews. I do not believe Morton
Friedman is a Government employee but that also I have not yet
checked.
Mr. Starnes. We do not want any testimony concerning Govern-
ment employees or any list until you have finished checking except
those you have personal information about.
Miss Spargo. I understand that.
IMr. Matthew's. You said you didn't know whether there were sev-
eral hundred or not. Don't you have lists that you have checked
that have at least 2,000 names on them?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. You have at least 1 list that has 2,000 names you
checked ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, Dr. Matthews; but that is not the American
Peace ^lobilization.
Mr. Matthews. Yes ; I understand, but I am talking about Govern-
ment employees.
Miss Spargo. Interlocking organizations.
Mr. Matthews. I asked you about Government employees and not
about the American Peace 'Mobilization. What was the date of the
meeting in New York?
Miss Spargo. April 5 and 6.
Mr. Matthews. When did you go up to New York?
Miss Spargo. We went up April 4, Friday.
Mr. Matthews. How many persons went with you on the trip, on
the train to New York, approximately?
Miss Spargo. I think on the train there were approximately 150
people.
8408 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Did you have sj^ecial cars ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; we did, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. How many?
Miss Spargo. Two.
Mr. Matthews. You had two cars ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did yon meet a large number of these delegates on
the way up to New York?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir ; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Did you come to know some of them personally?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I did.
Mr. Matthews. And quite well?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I did; very well.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether other delegates went from
Washington to the New York meeting of the American Peace Mobili-
zation by otlier methods of transportation?
Miss Spargo. Yes; a great many went by special bus and a great
many went by private car.
Mr. Matthews. Did any one of the officers in the headquarters of
the American Peace Mobilization here in Washington tell you wdiat
the size of the Washington delegation would be?
Miss Spargo. Yes; Sam Schmerler told me that they would have
about 500 delegates from Washington, 150 of whom were to be dele-
gates from the Government — all of those that they called Government
delegates and all those delegates whom I met were members of the
U. F. W. A.
Mr. VooRiiis. Just a minute You don't mean they were delegates
from the Government?
Miss Spargo. That is what they were called.
Mr. Voorhis. You mean they were delegates from the United States
Government to the meeting of the American Peace Mobilization, so
designated ?
Miss Spargo. I am referring to them only as they were referred to
me, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. I think it is rather important that we get this matter
plain. You mean that the President appointed these people to repre-
sent the United States Government ?
Miss Spargo. Oh, certainly not.
Mr. Voorhis. Of course, you don't. What you mean is they were
people who came from Washington, who belonged to a union, perhaps,
that was composed of Government employees ; isn't that right ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct. They called themselves, how^ever,
Government delegates.
Mr. Voorhis. What were they delegates to ?
Miss Spargo. Delegates to the American People's Meeting.
Mr. Voorhis. People's meeting?
Miss Spargo. That is correct; which was a meeting of the national
meeting of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. These people who w^ere referred to as Government del-
egates were purported to be Government employees ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct. They were in fact Government em-
ployees.
Mr. Starnes. Government employees?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8409
Mr, Starnes. And the Washinoton council or the Washington chap-
ter for tliat reason, presumably, referred to them as Government
delegates?
jNIiss Spargo. That is correct.
jMr. Starxes. In contradistinction to those who were not em-
ployes of the Federal Government?
Miss SpAi;(;o. Tliat is correct.
Mr. Starnes. All right,
Mr. INIatthews. Do you happen to know whether or not there were
as many as 500 delegates from Washington to the American Peoples
Meeting ?
jNIiss Spargo. Yes ; Dr. Matthews.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. There were approximately 500 ?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; there were approximately 500.
Mr. ^Matthews. From Washington ?
Miss Spargo. Yes. I believe some of the literature of the American
Peace Mobilizati(m and the Washington Peace Mobilization said that
there were 600 delegates from Washington. I am merely giving my
own estimate.
Mr, Matthews. Which would be nearer — 500 ; is that correct ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. MattheW'S. Now, you say the official title of this meeting was
the "American People's Meeting" but it was held under the auspices of
the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
IMr. ^Matthews. Do you happen to have a call that was issued for
that gathering?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
IVIr. Matthews. Is that it?
(Handing pa])er to the witness.)
Miss Spargo. That is it; yes, sir.
Mr. MATTHEw^s. Xow, will you please describe that briefly?
]\Iiss Spargo. "Call. American People's Meeting." A. P. M. Those
are the capital letters which form A, P. M, reading downward — Ameri-
can Peace Mobilization, It calls upon all friends of peace and liberty,
Mr. Matthews. And it is signed by a large number of names, isn't
it?
Miss Spargo. That is correct. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthew^'^. Approximately how many names appear as signers
of this call ?
Miss Spargo. I don't know, sir — maybe 225.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this call which has been
identified by the witness, be made a part of the record.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to is marked "Spargo Exhibit No. 1.")
Mr. Matthews. Xow, on the back of tlie call, I direct your at-
tention. Mr. Chairman, to the fact that the sponsoring organizations
or participating organizations in the American Peace Mobilization,
are also listed in part: The American Youth Congress; the Farmer-
Labor Partv of Minnesota; the International Fur and Leather AVoi'k-
ers' Union: the International Workers Order; the Jewish Peoples'
Committee: the National Maritime Union; the Southein Negro Con-
gress; the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America,
8410 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Local 1225; the Washington Commonweahh Federation and other
organizations of that general character.
Mr. VooKHis. Is the American Peace Mobilization on that call ?
Mr. Matitiews. At the bottom of the page we find the following r
Please mail immediately to the national office of the American Peace Mobiliza-
tion, 1133 Broadway, New York City.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all ?
Mr. Matthews. I think that is the only place where the name
appeal's.
Mr. VooRHis. But it does appear on there ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir.
You attended this gathering, did you not?
Miss Spargo. I did, Dr. JMatthews.
Mr. Matthews. On your way up to New York on the train did you
do any work in preparation for the gathering in New York?
Miss Spargo. Yes. The group led by Sam Schmerler made up a
song on the train. I liad my typewriter with me, so I made several —
made a good many copies of that song for them for distribution.
Mr. Matthews. You have referred a number of times to Sam
Schmerler. Was he one of the leaders of the delegation ?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; very decidedly. He was one of the ablest leaders.
Mr. Matthews. Does he have any official title in the Washington
Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. It does not appear on the letterhead, but he is chair-
man of the Trade Union Council of the Washington Peace Mobiliza-
tion.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give any other pertinent details
about your trip to New York City. You helped them type some songs.
What else transpired on the train? Were there discussions of the
organization ?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; and the chief business on the train was rehearsing
songs and things of that sort, such as The Yanks Are Not Coming, No,
Sir, and also the business of where people were to stay was straight-
ened out, and that kind of thing.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Avhat did you do after you reached New York ?
Will you describe what happened?
Miss Spargo. We went to Mecca Temple to register and arrange for
housing the Washington delegation. The Washmgton delegation was
largely housed at the Hotel Lincoln.
Mr. Matthews. And then will you go ahead with the story of the
gathering itself? Describe the gathering which took place in New
York step by step.
Miss Spargo. Dr. Matthews, do you want to have the first meeting?
The first meeting of the Washington delegation — would you prefer to
have that first ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Miss Spargo. The Washington delegation met in the Crystal Room
at the Great Northern Hotel. An executive committee was formed.
Mrs. Montgomery, Mrs. Sarah V. Montgomery, Morris Tepping, alias
Tepletsky.
Mr. Matthews. Tepletsky ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. How do you happen to know that is an alias for
Morris Tepping?
UN-AMKUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8411
]\Iiss Spargo. It is so given in the records of the Metropolitan
Police Dejiartnu'iil.
Mr. Matthews. All right. Will you name — are you naming the
executive connnittee that was chosen?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ma'ithews. Was Sarah V. ^Nfontiiomery chairman of the execu-
tive committee — is that the reason you named her first?
Miss Spargo. Her name came first on the list.
Mr. Matthews. Proceed with the names of the executive com-
mittee.
Miss Spargo. Sam Zihet, alias Samuel Goodman; Jack Z'lcker;
Sam Schmerler; Morton Friedman; Mary Eichardson; and Henry
Thomas. Henry Thomas is the Negro leader of the southwest Com-
munist Party here.
A national presiding committee Avas also formed. Jack Mink — —
Mr. Matthews. Was that national presiding committee formed in
the Washington delegation meeting?
]SIiss Spargo. That is correct. That is the committee which was
to be the contact with the national committee and sit on the plat-
form and that kind of thing.
Jack Mink, ISIary Richardson, and Henry Thomas, Morris Tep-
ping. Jack Zucker, and Miss Mildred Bricker were also mentioned,
but they withdrew\ A lobby committee was set up. This was to
show the White House and Congress how the American Peace
Mobilization felt about this "imperialist war." Tliis lobby com-
mittee is the same committee which was aiding with this present
picketing of the White House.
Mr. Matthews. When you describe the war as an "imperialist
Avar.-' what are you quoting?
Miss Spargo. I am quoting what was said at the meeting, Dr.
Matthews.
Mr. ]Matthew^s. Is that the common parlance of the American
Peace Mobilization, as you learned to know about it in describing
the war?
Miss Spargo. It is, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Is the word "imperialist" invariably prefixed?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you happen to know whether or not that is
also the Communist Party line?
Miss Spargo. It is. Dr. JNIatthews.
Mr. Matthews. On the question of the war?
I\Iiss Spargo. It is.
Mr. Matthews. All right ; you were naming some committee.
Miss Spargo. A lobby connnittee was set up. Jack Zucker and
Sally Montgomery — "Sally Montgomery" is Mrs. Sarah V. Mont-
gomery. She was generally called "Sally" by the people there. A
resolutions committee Avas"^set up. Sam Schmerler; I^ee Whiting;
Tod Ozmun, identified by the Metropolitan Police as a Communist
Party leader and organizer here for many years.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please spell the name?
Miss Spargo. 0-z-m-u-n. Alexander Betz.
]Mr. Matthews. Do you know what Ted Ozmun does for a liv-
ing— what his occupation is?
^412 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Spargo, I do not, Dr. Matthews. He has been repeatedly-
employed upon W. P. A. and W. P. A. projects. He has translated
for that department and other departments, according to information
he gave me. At the present time I don't know what he is doing.
Mr. Matthews. Had you concluded the reading of the names of
the committees?
Miss Spargo. No, sir. Benjamin Kanerak. He is a bituminous-coal
employee.
Mr. Matthews. You mean an employee of the Bituminous Coal
Commission ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And not a miner ?
Miss Spargo. No, sir. Hugh B. Miller, an attorney of the Bitu-
minous Coal Commission; Mrs. Eleanor Fowler; Mrs. Dorothy
Strange; Reginald Audrey; Herman Dolgan.
Mr. Matthews. D-o-l-g-a-n ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct, I believe. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Starnes. As you read those names you are identifying people
that you know personally to be employed by the Federal Government
in various capacities ?
Miss Spargo. I was so informed.
Mr, Voorhis. Well, so I may understand this, is that a list of an
executive committee ?
Mr. Matthews. There are committees appointed by the organization
in New York. She said this particular person was an employee of the
Bituminous Coal Commission.
Mr. Starnes. And I asked if she had personal knowledge that these
people were em]:)loyed by the Government.
]\Ir. JMason. Of those you listed as employees?
Miss Spargo. I know from them or from checking with Government
departments that they are employed — by checking in the departments
where they are employed.
Agnes Spencei-; Ali^heus Hunt on, a professor at Howard University.
Mr. Matthews. What committee is that you just read?
Miss Spargo. That is the resolutions committee.
Mr. Matthews. Was there any other committee ?
Miss Spargo. Hudson Wells, who was president of the Washington
Peace Mobilization.
Mr. IMatthews. Was he on the resolutions committee?
Miss Spargo. Yes; he was appointed to draw up a separate resolu-
tion on housing. Then there was the march from One Hundred and
Twenty-fifth Street
Mr. JNIatthews. Are you through with the committees?
Miss Spargo. No, Dr. Matthews. They scheduled a march from One
Hundred and Twenty-fifth Street to Randall's Island and appointed a
connnittee to handle that. Jack Zucker, Charles Adamson, Fay Gold-
stein, Ted Ozmun, and five or six people of whom I have only the last
names — do you wish those included ?
Mr. Starnes. Only the last names? I don't know that that is
material.
Mr. Matthews. Does that conclude the list of committees?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. Now, this was all business which transpired at the
meeting of the Washington delegation ?
UN-AM KKICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8413
Miss Spargo. That is right.
Mr. IMattuews. To the American Peoples Meeting?
Miss Spakgo. That is correct.
Mr. JNlATrHEWS. Did any other business transpire there that is perti-
nent to this investigation ? Did the meeting consist entirely of naming
these committees?
jNliss Spakgo. No.
]Mr. Mati'hews. "Who presided at the meeting of the AVashington
delegation ?
MTss Spargo. IMrs. Montgomery,
]\rr. jMati'hews. AVas there a secretary of the delegation?
Miss Spargo. Yes; Mary Richardson acted as secretary.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know what her employment is?
Miss Spargo. I do not.
Ml'. Matthews. Do you recall who made speeches, if any formal
speeches were made, at this meeting of the Washington delegation?
Miss Spargo. Sam Schmerler spoke and Jack Zucker spoke mostly
upon the kind of resolutions which they wanted to have included in
the national platform.
Mr. Matthews. Did Sam Schmerler in his speech make any refer-
ence to the Washington Bookshop?
Miss Spakgo. Yes, Dr. Matthews. He said that members of the
American Peace Mobilization would get a special discount at the
Bookshop and that the Bookshop on Seventeenth Street carried liter-
ature which no other bookshop would carry in Washington.
Mv. ISIatthews. Did he state witli what authority he could offer
special discounts from the Bookshop to the members of the American
Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. Xo. I believe not. Dr. IVIatthews.
Mr. Matthews. He just stated that as a fact?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. INIatthews. After the Washington delegation had its meeting,
was there a main session of the entire American Peoples Meeting?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Wliere was that held ?
Miss Spargo. It was held in Mecca Temple. It was originally
scheduled to have been held at Randall's Island, but because of raiii
it was called off.
Mr. Matthews. Did you start to Randall's Island?
Miss Spargo. We did.
Mr. Matthews. And it began to rain on the way ?
Miss Spargo. It did.
Mr. ]\lAn^HEws. And the march turned around and came back to
Mecca Tem])le; is that right?
Miss Spaigo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. AYas the meeting at Mecca Temple an open or
public meeting?
Miss Spargo. Xo. sir ; it was for delegates only.
Mr. Matthews. AA^as the meeting at Randall's Island to be a public
meeting?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
IMr. ]MAiTnEWs. How far had you marched before you turned
around and went back to Mecca Temple?
3414 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Spargo. We marched from One Hundred and Twenty-fifth
Street part way across the Triborough Bridge.
Mr. Matthews. When you got back to Mecca Temple, what did
you have to do? Show your delegate's card or badge in order to
gain admission to the meeting?
Miss Spargo. In every section at Mecca Temple you had to show
your delegate's card. May I explain?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Miss Spargo. I was given a delegate's card, although I could present
no credentials. I mean they were asking for credentials and I said
that I had none, but I was very interested and that is how I happened
to have a delegate's card.
Mr. Matthew^s. Where did you get the delegate's card? Here in
Washington ?
Miss Spargo. No ; at Mecca Temple when I first went down there.
Mr. Matthews. At the meeting of the Washington delegation did
you have any particular friend with whom you were sitting and with
whom you discussed what was going on, or did that occur on the
march or subsequently? Did you discuss this matter with any par-
ticular individual in the Washington delegation ?
]Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; ])articularly with a Miss Julia Marcus.
Mr. Matthews. Is that J-u-1-i-a?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. M-a-r-c-u-s?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You mean that during the gathering you got par-
ticularly acquainted with her?
Miss Spargo. On the way down on the train. She is a Govern-
ment employee.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where she is employed ?
Miss Spargo. I have it in my notes. Dr. Matthews. I don't recall
offhand.
Mr. Matthews. Did you get to know any other individual par-
ticularly well from the standpoint of discussing the nature and pur-
poses of the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; I got to know Mr. Ozmun quite well.
Mr. Matthews. Did you sit with him in some of the sessions?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I sat with him at the sessions of the Wash-
ington delegation in the Crystal Room of the Great Northern Hotel
and on subsequent occasions.
Mr. Mattheavs. Did Mr. Ozmun take it upon himself to exj^lain
to you carefully the nature and purposes of the American Peace
Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. He did. He asked me to join the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Where did he ask you to join the Communist
Party ? Going up on the train or coming back or where ?
Miss Spargo. No; it was at a session in Mecca Temple, a branch
meeting of Press, Office, Government and
Mr. Matthews. Had he led up to his asking you to join the Com-
munist Party with any discussion of the relationship of the Com-
munist Party to the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Spargo. Oh. yes.
Mr. Matthews. He just didn't ask you out of the blue to join the
Communist Party, did he?
UX-AMEUICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8415
Miss 8pakgo. No, indeed. He had the evening that I arrived in
New York — 1 wonder if I niioht refer to my notes ^
Mr. Matthews. Certainly. AVill you detail your conversations
Avith Ozniun ^
Mr. Staunks. We aie going to declare a short recess for the purpose
of letting the witness check her notes.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
Ml". Staknes. The connnittee will be in order.
As I understand it you are to show by this line of questions what
relations there were between the Communist Party and the American
Peace Mobilization?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. I would like Miss Spargo to remember as
exactly as po.ssible the language of her conversations with Mr. Oz-
nuni that had to do with the relationship of the Communist Party
to the American Peace Mobilization. Will you describe the con-
versations?
Miss Spakgo. Part of this conversation was at a party given April
4, given at the home of Miss Muriel Draper, 144 Lexington Avenue,
New York City.
Mr. Matthews. Is that Miss Muriel Draper, the famous dancer?
Miss Spargo. I believe so. The party was for out-of-town delegates
to the American Peo])le"'s Meeting.
I had to go to the party with Miss Julia Marcus and it was there
That I met Mr. Oznum. We had a A^ery lengthy conversation. He
l)egan to quote the things William Z. Foster had said about the rights
of workers. He then asked me how far I had progressed. He said
that by this time : "You have discovered that the old two-party system,
the dear old American Avay, is just so much bunkum for the Avorkers."
Later Mr. Ozmun said he believed that I Avas about "ripe to join
the C. P."
I asked him: "You mean the Connuunist Party?'*
He said : ''Of course, don't tell me you don't like the party."
I again saAV Mr. Ozmun and sat with him at the Washington dele-
gation meeting the next morning. That Avas xVpril 5. Then, later
again that same day on April 5, I saAV him at the CA^ening conference
at Mecca Temple. ]\Ir. Oznmn wanted me to leave the conference
early to attend a party at the Youth Workshop, at 4 West Eighteenth
Street, Avhich was being giA-en in — I mean for delegates to the Amer-
ican People's Meeting. I suggested that since they had given me a
card as a delegate I should stay at the sessions and attend the ses-
sions. He thereupon said in a meeting AAdiere there Avere people
around. I mean a great many people, the whole audience, he said "You
can't do any good by sitting at these sessions. All the positions are
held by members of the C. P. Nobody Avho is not a member of the
C. P. can get anvAvhere in the A. P. M."
Mr. VooRHis. Did Ozmun tell you that?
Miss Spargo. That is correct, Mr. Voorhis, he did. He said:
AVe have a fow A. P. M. iiieinbers who arc not C. P. people but they haven't
a tiling to do AVith running this organization.
He said :
When yon join the C. P. it will he worth while for you to stick around; you
iniglit be elected to office or ])Ut in a group leadership position, but don't forget
the ('. P. has this whole matter of the American Peace Mobilization in the bag
and is running it just the Avay it Avants to.
62626— 41— vol. 14 17
8416 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Now, was that conversation to dissuade you from
staying at the meeting on the ground that if you stayed you could not
do anything because you were not yet a Communist Party member?
Is that the way you understood the conversation %
Miss SPARGO.'lt was partly for that purpose and jjartly as an or-
ganizational effort. He is organizer and he was trying to show me
how important it was to join the Communist Party. He had brought
that up several times.
Mr. Matthews. He wanted you to go to another meeting — is that
correct — or party ?
Miss Spargo. He wanted me to go to a party at the Youth Work
Shop.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go to the party at the Youth Work Shop ?
Miss Spargo. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Go ahead with your conversations with Mr. Ozmun,
if there was some more on that particular point.
Miss Spargo. At the Youth Work Shop Mr. Ozmun informed me
he had started the Workers Alliance here in Washington with 10 mem-
bers and it had grown to 2,500. He said he had joined the Commu-
nist Party 5 years ago. He said he had worked in various capacities
on W. P. A. Historical Records Survey, translating for the Justice
Department, Interior Department, and Agriculture. He said that be-
cause the Communist Party had many members in key defense posi-
tions in the Government, and was trying to get as many more as it
could, that he had tried himself to get in with the Defense Commission,
but he said that he had been turned down because he belieA^ed that the
police knew he was a Communist. He said :
I was one of those who picketed the German Embassy and I served 30 days
in jail for it, all because they knew we were Communists. I was with the Sea-
men's Union at that time.
He also told me that Representative Cox, of Georgia, had slapped
his face on one occasion and he said he had made the headlines with it.
I suggested to Mr. Ozmun that if I should join the Communist
Party I wouldn't care to have it generally known. Mr. Ozmun in-
formed me that that was very easy, he would pro*pose me, the Com-
munists in the Newspaper Guild will inquire into my reputation and
only he, they, and the local party secretary would know my real name.
He said :
We all use different names in any Communist connection except for such people
as Corliss Lamont.
Mr. Matthews. Did he use the name Corliss Lamont?
Miss Spargo. He did, sir. He also suggested that joining the Com-
munist Party woidd be a wonderful form of insurance for the future,
because the Comnumists were going to be able to take over this country
in about 5 years, he thought, and he said that naturally party members
would fare better than others when the revolution came.
I believe, Dr. Matthews, that that is about all on that particular
point.
Mr. Starnes. May I ask you a little bit further about this tie-up
of the American Peace Mobilization ? He told you the only way you
could hope to achieve a position of responsibility or leadership in
the movement was to become a party' member?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 3417
Miss Spargo. What lie told me was that I couldn't hold an office or
be on a comniilloe or have anythin<x whatever to do with runninfj it
if I were not a Connuuuist Parly member.
Mr. Starnes. In other words, he told you definitely that the Com-
munist Party controlled the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Sparho. He did, sir.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. VooRHiK. Now, with that as No. 1 point, would it not be true
that every effort would be made to try to get people who were not
Communists to be interested in it or affiliated with it in one way or
another, providing they didn't have any position?
Miss Spargo. Providing they held no position of leadership, oh, ab-
solutely.
Mr. \\K^Rnis. And wouldn't the effort be made to get people as far
away as possible if you coukl, to come along with the thing and attend
meetings and be members and so on and so forth ?
Miss Spargo. Oh, j-es; I definitely know that.
Mr. VooRHis. That is what a front is for, isn't it ?
Miss Spargo. Yes; only this is a personal opinion, Mr. Voorhis, but
it seemed to me this is less of a front than most of these other organ-
izations— it is more open.
Mr. VooRHis. You mean the control is tighter and it is more defi-
nitely communistic?
Miss Spargo. It is more definitely communistic; yes. In other
words we have so much testimony
Mr. Voorhis. The point I am trying to make is, it would not do
the Comnninist Party any good to have an organization that was
just limited to control by them and membership of their own people,
so, therefore, the attempt is to utilize this cause of peace in which so
many people are sincerely interested, and deeply concerned and from,
to my mind, the very best of motives, to utilize that as a means of
getting a lot of perfectly good people as tails to what is definitely a
Communist kite, isn't that right?
Miss Spargo. That is exactly so.
Mr. Matthews. Now, JMr. Chairman, if Miss Spargo will stand
aside for a few minutes. Miss Huffman has testimonj^ concerning the
same meeting and the same point, and if you will hear that now we
Avill have Miss Spargo come back in a moment.
]Mr. Starnes. Very well. Miss Spargo, you may stand aside.
TESTIMONY OF HAZEL HUFFMAN— Resumed
Mr. ^Iatthkwr. Miss Huffman, did you attend the first large meet-
ing of tlie American Peoples Meeting held at Mecca Temple after the
affair was adjourned from Randall's Island to the temple?
Miss Huffman. Both. Befoie Randall's Island meeting there was
some activities at Mecca Temple previous to the Randall Island
meet in"'.
Mr. aIatthewr. You attended all the meetings, did you?
IMiss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now, will you please give what information you
have on what transpired at that meeting at Mecca Temple, particularly
3418 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
as it relates to the question of the part that the Communist Party was
playing in he American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. Yes ; both that and a meeting that I attended later
that evening that was not an American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Matthews. All right.
Miss Huffman. At the American Peace INIobilization one thing I
was particularly interested in was observing how many of the so-called
leaders of the Communist Party were in attendance at that meeting.
Among those in attendance at the meeting on the floor with the
delegates were Ben Gold, Rockwell Kent, Isobel Walker Soule, Eliza-
beth Gurley Flynn, Norman Tallentire, of the International Workers'
Alliance; Joseph Brodsky, William F. Dunne, Robert Dunn, Mike
Gold, Si Gerson, a former representative; Jerry O'Comiell, the
Michigan State senator. Stanley Novak was both a speaker and for
a period of time was on the floor with the delegates.
Mr. VooRHis. What meeting is this?
Miss Huffman. This is the meeting at the Mecca Temple.
Mr. Starnes. Of the Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. The American Peace Mobilization convention. It
was called the American People's Meeting.
Mr. Starnes. I understand, and that is this meeting?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; and they were on the main floor with
the delegates. There was the main auditorium and two balconies
and these people were all seen on the main floor with the delegates.
Mr. Matthews. Do you mean over a period of years as you have
studied this question that you are able to identify or recognize these
persons yourself ?
Miss Huffman. Not only from that point, Doctor, but from the
point of attending meetings that were purely Communist meetings
at which they were the people in charge of the meetings. There is
no question of that.
Mr. Matthews. You are speaking of first-hand knowledge when
you say the people there are Communists?
Miss" Huffman. I know the people individually, personally — I saw
these people in the audience. In fact, I spoke to some of them at
the meeting as they came off the floor with the delegates. I am only
mentioning those people that I know first-hand and am able to idea-
tify. Lloyd Gough, who is in charge of the cultural division of the
A. P. M., and who was one of the ringleadei's with the theater arts
committee and Francis Bass and Morris Watson.
I have given that just as a partial list of the people that I iden-
tified.
May I be permitted to go to the evening meeting? After we at-
tended the A. P. M. meeting and that was a celebration for Norman
Tallentire — that was a jubilee celebration for his fifty-fifth birtliday.
Mr. Matthews. At any rate it was a birthday celebration?
Miss Huffman. At any rate he was born on April 6, 1896 and it
was the celebration of his birthday and his 40 years in the labor
movement.
The sponsors of that meeting are all of the people who are quoted
in the Daily Worker, who are leaders in the Communist Party and
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8419
known to ho the leaders in the Conniuinist Party. I thoupjht I \v,v\
that exhibit here but I haven't.
At that nieetino; Rockwell Kent, William F. Dunne, Robert Dunn,
Elizabeth (jurley Flynn, Joseph R. Brodsky, Isobel AValker Soule —
William Z. Foster was scheduled to attend but sent his regrets — and
William Dunne covered the part of the program which Mr. Foster
was to cover.
William E. Browder, the brother of Earl Browder, was one of the
speakers at that meeting. Each speaker referred to the fact that he
had been at the American Peoples Meeting; each one of them spoke
of the necessity for the American Peace Mobilization and what it could
do. '
Along with that they were describing how the exact place where each
had fitted in on what might be termed the Communist "cause celebre"
movement such as the Sacco-Vanzetti case^ the Tom Mooney case.
They called themselves the agitators who had carried on all this agita-
tion and activity on behalf of Tom Mooney and the Sacco-Vanzetti
cases, the Butte {Mont.) case, the Montana Anaconda strike, the
marble strike in Vermont, the activity for the recognition of the Soviet
Union.
As a matter of fact one comment that was made there by Mr. Tallen-
tire was that they were largely responsible for the fact that the Soviet
Union liad recognized the United States and went on to explain that
was the way it really happened.
Mr. William Dunne in telling of his activities during the 1923 and
1924 period with the unemployed and in strike areas constantly re-
ferred to the United States as "this Wall Street government." Rock-
well Kent told of his activities in association with Norman Tallentire
over this long period, and Rockwell Kent spoke of the activities of the
United American Artists in the American Peace ^Mobilization.
William E. Browder also told of his activities. I bring that out
because there was no question in the subjects that they were covering
and in tlieir activities about the fact that they had carried on this
movement for the Communist Party. They so stated. And they
closely associated the fact of the activity of the American Peace Mobi-
lization Avith the Communist Party at that particular meeting.
Mr. Matthews. I have a throw-away on the Norman Tallentire jubi-
lee celebration.
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was this distributed at the meeting of the American
Peace Mobilization?
Miss Htjffmax. I received this particular one, I know from the sig-
nature in the right-hand corner, at the upper Manhattan American
Peace Mobilization meeting. I have the exact date here that was on —
March 26, 1941 — at whicli this Norman Tallentire was one of the prin-
cipal speakers along with Rabbi Plotkin, of New Jersey.
At that time Norman Tallentire, speaking at an American Peace
Mobilization meeting, spoke of his 40 years in the progressive
labor movement. He referred to himself as "a party member.'' He
stated he was a delegate to the Chicago Mobilization for Peace in Sep-
tember from the International Workers' Order, and that he was a
delegate for the April 6 convention.
3420 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
You see this meeting was before the Mecca Temple meeting, so he
was telling that he was a delegate to the Mecca Temple meeting.
He stated that the International Workers' Order had a membership
of 1,700,000 people and "is a proud affiliate of the American Peace
Mobilization."
He credited efforts of the A. P. M. march on Washington for chang-
ing the congressional vote on the conscription bill from, I quote :
One vote on the first ballot to 163 votes on the final ballot.
He stated and I quote :
Efforts have been untiring since the Amsterdam Congress Against War to
defeat efforts of Ford, Du Pont of Bethlehem Steel, and the rest of the warmongers
to lead the people into imperialist wars.
This speech that he made at the American Peace Mobilization
was entirely pro-Soviet and along Communist Party lines, dealing
with sharecroppers, housing, unemployment, conscription. He
clahned that Great Britain through Halifax built up Hitler in an
effort to cause a war to fight — and I quote :
the only nation of the workers, the most glorious place in the world, a socialist
nation that occupies one-sixth of the world.
This praise of Soviet Russia and advantages of the Soviet Gov-
ernment for the workers lasted 15 minutes. He stated :
The purpose of peace mobilization is to cause all of us in every nation, after
Germany and Britain are exhausted, to rise up and throw off the Fascist yoke
in every nation — Italy, Germany, Britain, Africa, India, and these United States,
and build a world republic of tlie workers.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you mean to say that there is no secret what-
ever about Norman Tallentire being a member of the Communist
Party?
Miss Huffman. He doesn't make it any sex?ret because he tells
when he joined it and when he went into the labor movement. He
went into the Socialist Party in Canada first and then came to this
country. He admits being a member of the Communist Party — he
states he is.
Mr. Matthews. He was one of the defendants in the famous
Bridgeman Michigan criminal syndicalist trial some years ago, was
he not?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Along with Foster and other Communist leaders?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews, Ancl the other persons you have named who were
on the program at the Norman Tallentire celebration were openly
and avowed members of the Communist Party?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. Kockwell Kent introduced them at the
meeting as being Communists.
Mr. Matthews. Was Rockwell Kent the master of ceremonies ?
Miss Huffman. Rockwell Kent was master of ceremonies at that
meeting; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you were going to go back to the meeting
at Mecca Temple. Have you concluded with the Norman Tallentire
celebration ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. At the meeting at Mecca Temple the
first plans were to have nothing carried on at Mecca Temple, I be-
UX-AMEUICAN I'liOl'AtJANDA ACTIVITIES 8421
lieve, except some of the conferences such as have been previoiiKly
mentioned, whicli Avere held, some at Mecca Temph' and some in
the various hotels. There was a great deal of confusion due to
the fact that it was raining and no one could ascertain as to whether
or not there wa;^ to be a Randall's Island meeting or not. Conse-
quently we had time to circidate in the lobby and on the second
floor where they were selling literature. The literature was for sale
and also being distributed, and where the "free Browder" petition
was being distributed there was a petition on the poll tax and
subscriptions for various publications.
It was finally announced that the meeing would be held at Ran-
dall's Island, so we Avent up to Randall's Island.
Mr. Starxes. Dr. Matthews, before you go into the Randall's
Island meeting — I understand that is a rather important episode —
can you tell me about what time you will take on this phase of the
testimony?
Mr. Mattiifavs. You were going to describe what transpired at
the Mecca Tem])1e meeting with respect to Communist relationships
to the organization, were you not?
Miss HirFF:MAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. And how long will it take you to do that ?
Miss Huffman. I think I can cover that in about 3 minutes. I may
be underestimating myself.
Mr. Matthews. Then we will be ready to adjourn.
Mr. Starnes. We v^ill finish the Mecca Temple meeting and then
we will recess for lunch.
IMr. Matthews. Off the record.
Mr. Starxes. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Starnes. We will take a recess at this time until 1 : 30 p. m.
(WHiereupon, at 12 noon, a recess was taken until 1:30 p. m. the
same day.)
afternoon session
(Whereupon, at 1:30 p. m., the hearing was resumed, pursuant
to the taking of a recess.)
jVIr. Starnes. The committee will please be in order.
Who is your first witness, Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matfhew^s. Miss Huffman.
TESTIMONY OF HAZEL HUFFMAN— Resumed
Mr. Matthews, ]\Ir. Chairman, we will ask Miss Huffman to con-
tinue with her account of the meetings of the American Peace Mobili-
zation held at Randall's Island and Mecca Temple on April 5 and 6
of this year. Will you proceed. Miss Huffman?
Mr. Starnes. Before you begin, Dr. Matthews, do you have pre-
pared a chart or diagram of any kind or character showing the initia-
tion of this American Peace Mobilization, its affiliation with the Com-
munist Party in any way, and also any interlocking of interests or
community of interests or community of control and so forth and
so on with any of the other organizations which may be checked
upon later?
3422 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Yes, Mr. Chairman,, we have an ehiborate chart
of the American Peace Mobilization. It lists the officers and spon-
sors not only of the organization but also their various connections
with the Communist Party and front organizations of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Starnes. I would think that is of i)aramount interest to the
committee and at the proper time and place, without interfering
with your schedule of the hearing, let me suggest you introduce
that and make it a part of the record because I think it is not only
pertinent and very important that we have something like that
for the record but the connnittee must have something of that nature.
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir.
Mr, Starnes. You may proceed.
Mr. Matthews. Now will you proceed with your description of the
meeting at Randalls Island and Mecca Templet
Miss HuTTMAN. Yes, sir. At Mecca Temple on the second floor,
which was used for the displays and the distribution of literature, the
one side of the balcony had a huge display of the International Work-
ers' Order and its plan of plenty — the publication The Plan of
Plenty of the International Workers' Order. That was sold at the
meeting.
In fact, a number of the people who represented themselves as
being strikebreakers from the Harvester strike as well as the Interna-
tional Workers' Order people were distributing or selling this par-
ticular booklet.
The foreword in this booklet, which might be of interest to the com-
mittee, is written by Herbert Benjamin, the national executive secre-
tary of the I. W. O.
Mr. Matthews. Herbert Benjamin was at one time the secretary-
treasurer of the Workers Alliance; is that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And also a member of the National Committee of
the Communist Party?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; and this book — and the point that was
brought out and was mentioned to me by a number of people who were
selling the book and later at this Tallentire meeting by people who
admitted being Communists was that it was to be the basis of a bill to
be presented in Congress and in the Sunday Worker of May 11, 1940 —
I am including this clipping which states one of the bills, H. R. 4688,
embodies the principle of the plan for plenty originated and spon-
sored by the International Workers' Order, the International Workers'
Order having been set up in 1930 by the Central Committee of the
Communist Party.
I am particularly mentioning that because at both the Mecca Temple
meeting and the subsequent meetings the International Workers'
Order — being set up by the Communist Party, shows a definite Com-
munist connection — because of their membership, practically every
committee had a person who can be identified as a member of the
International Workers' Order.
Mr. Mattheavs. The International Workers' Order is officially one
of the affiliated bodies of the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. I read that in this morning's testimony, that Nor-
man Tallentire said — I gave the exact quote of Norman Tallentire of
UN-AMKIIICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8423
their full support of the Aniorican Poace Mobilization, thoir affilia-
tion Avitli tlie American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. MArrnEws. Mr. Chairman, I ask this clipping be introduced in
tlie record at this point.
Mr. Starxes. It is so ordered.
(The clipping was marked "Huffman Exhibit No. 4.")
Mr. Matthews. You may proceed.
Miss Huffman. The other piece of literature that was perhaps out-
stand ino- was the book Soviet Power, written by the Dean of Canter-
bury. There was a huge display sign on the second floor of Mecca
Temple, and special prices were being offered by the American Coun-
cil on Soviet Relations. A number of the people who claimed to be
strikers and who were also selling the Harvester literature to raise
funds for the strikers were also engaged in selling this book, Soviet
Power, which was offered at this special price.
Mr. Starnes. You keep speaking of "strikers," Miss Huffman.
Was that at the International Harvester plants?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Men from those plants?
Miss Huffman. Y^es, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you see or converse with any people or persons
at either the Mecca Temple meeting or the Randall's Island meeting
who claimed to be strikers in the AUis-Chalmers i^lant at Milwaukee?
Miss Huffman. Y^es. In fact this is literature that was sold in
order to raise funds for the men who were on strike. This one piece
of literature was the publication from the Allis-Chalmers.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Mr. Chairman, will you have this introduced in
the record at this point?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Miss Huffman. There are two pieces of literature on the Allis-
Chalmers.
Mr. Starnes. Both will be received.
(The literature referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit
No. 5.")
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Harold Christoffel
was formerly connected with the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Y^'es, sir ; and he is included on our chart.
Mr. Matthews. And do you know whether or not Harold Chris-
toffel ndflressed a meeting, a mass meeting of the American Peace
Mobilization, here in "Washington about 2 weeks ago?
Miss Huffman. I saAv an account of it. I did not cover the
meeting.
Mr. Matthews. And Harold Christoffel is the leader of the Allis-
Chalmers local of the United Automobile Workers?
Miss Huffman. Y^'es, sir.
Other literature that was being sold or distributed was that of the
American Student Union and an announcement of the Cornell and
Xew Y^ork University dance for the delegates.
Mr. Matthews. Before you leave the International Harvester strik-
ers, you say they attended the meeting in New York?
Miss Huffman. Now, just a moment. Doctor; I have the point
here where they were introduced on the platform. Mr. Felhaber,
vice president of the Ohio C. I. O., introduced
8424 UN-AMERIOAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. His first name is Elmer, is it not ?
Miss Huffman. I think so. Elmer Felhaber introduced "Brother
Enoch Rollback," and he was introduced as one of the leaders of
the Allis-Chahners strike.
Mr. Rollback told of the women and children sitting on the lawn in
the park and how the police threw tear-gas bombs into their midst.
He told how one deputy sheriff resigned in disgust after this hap-
pened. He told of the tear-gas battle and stated: "It was not with-
out casualties, 42 deputy sheriffs," and the audience at the A. P. M.
immediately gave considerable applause to the fact that 42 deputy
sheriffs had been injured.
Mr. Rollback went on to say:
"We, too, bear scars, honor scars," which brought applause. Then
he appealed to the audience for funds to help the strikers, stating
that the strike had been going on for a long time and that most of
the strikers were living on the county. He stated that they had
raised $1,000 bail for one fellow the F. B. I. got and "$10,000 bail
had to be raised in one day."
Then the strike delegates from the Allis-Chalmers went through
the audience and distributed these circulars that have previously been
entered in the record, distributed them in exchange for contributions
to continue the strike.
Then Mr. Felhaber introduced Senator Novak, the State senator
from Michigan.
Mr. Matthews, That is N-o-v-a-k?
Miss Huffman. Yes; Stanley Novak, and he was introduced as
an outstanding organizer in the labor movement from the Ford
organization camp.
He constantly referred to the Ford police and the Gestapo, and
Mr. Novak claimed that TO percent of the Ford workers live in his
district and he claimed he had been elected to the State senate by
the C. I, O, organization, that he had been in the Ford organizing
staff for a number of months. He said that the Ford workers were
really organized and "there is no greater danger to American democ-
racy than the Ford Motor Co."
He also stated that while on the floor of the senate, that is, the
State senate, on Tuesday, "the news reached me the Ford plant was
down — shut down," and the audience went into perhaps the loudest
burst of applause up to that time of the meeting. It was greeted
with a great deal of cheering.
Mr. Staknes, This was a meeting of the American Peace Mobili-
zation ?
Miss Huffman. Yes; a meeting of the American Peace Mobiliza-
tion. And he said that that was cei-tainly good news, that the plant
was shut down. He stated that he had participated in practically
every auto strike since 1030 — General IVIotors, Chrysler, Plymouth,
and Ford. He said that Ford is the most comj^lete success and
"the plant is closed,"
Every reference that was made to Harry Bennett was greeted by
boos from the audience. Senator Novak also mentioned that he
is head of the Stanley Novak Federation, of Detroit, Mich,, and this
organization is one of the organizational sponsors of the American
Peace Mobilization.
UN-AMERICAN PKOPAGANDA ACTIA^TIES §425
Mr. Novak introduced one of the men from the picket line at the
Ford plant, ''lirother Goor<ie Davis." The audience when Mr.
Davis — wheii (ieorge Davis came on the platform, he was the first
colored man who had been introduced at that day's meeting, the
audience meeting — tlie audience immediately burst into singing
Solidarity Forever.
Mr. Netf then introduced several strikers from the International
Harvester strike in Chicago.
Mr. :MA'rTHEWS. That is Walter Scott Neff ?
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What is his relationship to the American Peace
Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Dr. Walter Scott Neff is in charge of the New
York Council.
Mr. Matthews. He is one of the professors from the City College
that was ousted as a result of the investigation of the Coudert com-
mittee ?
Miss Huffman. Bob Travis, of Cleveland, was the first striker that
Dr. Neff had introduced.
Mr. Matthews. And he was from the International Harvester
strike?
Miss Hufftvian. He w^as from the International Harvester strike.
He paid tribute to John L. Lewis and the United Mine Workers,
which brought forth applause from the audience, and stated : "We
have told the bosses, 'Get on tlie line or we are out too.' "
He also stated that the "Harvesters are fighting American fascism
in the form of the Chicago Police Department." Every reference
at this American Peace Mobilization meeting that was made to the
Chicago Police Department or the Kelly-Nash machine, as it was
called, met with boos from the audience. Mr. Travis claimed that
there were 65,000 new C. I. O. members in Illinois due to the Harvester
strike, and he quoted John Lewis as saying : "Forty-five million people
will not become indentured slaves of this country."
Mr. Matthews. Do vou know whether or not this is the same Bob
Travis who led the sit-down strikes at Flint, Mich.?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In 1936?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; it is, and that was brought out by — I was
sitting with the Kentucky delegation and the woman who was sitting
next to me knew IMr. Travis from the Flint, Mich., strike and had
mentioned the Flint, Mich., strike.
Mr. Matthews. Now, who else was there from the International
Harvester strikers?
Miss HuFi^MAN. Those are the only names that I have on this
report, Doctor.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Grant Oakes is the head of the union which
was on strike?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. At the International Harvester?
Miss puFFMAN. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matthews. The Farm Equipment Workers Organizing Com-
mittee?
Miss HuFFaiAN. Yes, sir.
8426 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any record of Grant Oakes' connec-
tion with the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; Grant Oakes is listed on the chart.
Mr. Matthews. He is one of the officers of the American Peace
Mobilization, is he not?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; he is a member of the national executive
council. The address of the national office is 1133 Broadway. That
is just above Twenty-sixth Street in Manhattan.
Mr. Starnes. Will you give us a list of the officers?
Miss Huffman. Do you want a list of the national officers at this
time ?
Mr. Starnes. I don't want to interrupt you now — we will lake that
up later.
Miss Huffman. Noav, other than the strikers I would like to go
back to Randall's Island. The Randall's Island rally was called off.
We did go to Randall's Island and we took in our car three people
who Avere in attendance at the meeting. One of them was a man
named Jack Marshall, a delegate from the C. I. O. United Electrical,
Radio and Machine Workers of America ; Shrover, the Ohio delegate
from Cleveland: and Jack Wallace, formerly of the Art Project of
the W. P. A., New York City.
Mr. Marshall stated that he had with him the credentials of Mr.
Fahy, vice president of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine
Workers of America.
Mr. Marshall, in talking to us on the way to the meeting, was very
frank about the fact that he belonged to the Communist Party.
Mr. Shrover was frank about the fact that he was connected with
the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. When we reached Randall's Island
the rain had already started. The group was small but there was,
I would say, approximately 50 people of the Abraham Lincoln Bri-
gade there with a large pennant.
The outstanding event at the rally was the songs that they sang.
In between every other song they sang Solidarity Forever. The
Abraham Lincoln Brigade sang the Internationale and sang the Abra-
ham Lincoln Brigade Marching Song. There was frequent singing of
We Will Hang Henry Ford From A Sour Aj^ple Tree, and Why Do
You Stand There In^ the Rain, the Ballad of October 16, and Billy
Boy.
I am mentioning those songs because those are exactly the same
songs that are sung at all of the other meetings that are conducted by
the Communists. They are the songs that appear in the American
Peace Mobilization book of songs that is distributed at their meetings.
Mr. Starnes. They have a book of songs, do they ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, Congressman Starnes.
Mr. Matthews. May we have this introduced in the record at this
point ?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. This is American Songs for American Peoples
Meeting, April 5 and 6, American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received in evidence.
(The booklet referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit No. 6.")
Mr. Mattheavs. Now, while we are on the subject of songs. Miss
Huffman, have you seen the album of records which is published as
a special edition for the American Peace Mobilization?
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES §427
Miss HuFFArAN, Yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether this is one of those al-
bums of records that I am luuuling you?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Staknes. Do you desire to have those attached as exhibits?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; I think they slioukl be attached as exhibits.
Mr. Starnes. And make proper reference to them in the record.
Mr. INIatthews. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The phonograph records referred to were marked "Huflman
Exhibits Nos. 7, 7-A, 7-B, 7-C, and 7-D.")
Mr. Matthj:ws. Now here is a throw-away put out by the dis-
pensers of these records in which there is advertised this special
A. P. M. edition of this album.
I would like for Miss Huffman to read the words of two or three
of these songs. Will you first read the words of a song entitled,
"C for Conscription/' wliich appears on one of the records.
Miss Huffman. Dr. Matthews, on the point of the records, on
this balcony floor where the books were being sold, they had a vic-
trola there with a man in attendance, that constantly played these
recortls and a special price was olfered with a huge sign announcing
the special price for the recordings.
C for ConscriptioD and C for Capitol Hill ;
C for Conscription and C for Capitol Hill ;
It's C for the Congress that passed that godamned bill.
This here New York City water tastes like cherry wine ;
This here New York City water tastes like cherry wine;
They tell me army water tastes like turpentine.
I'd rather be here at home, even living in a hollow log ;
I'd rather be here at home, even living in a hollow log ;
Than go to the Army, be treated like a dirty dog.
WASHINGTON BREAK-DOWN
Franklin D., listen to me, yon ain't a-gonua send me 'cross the sea ; you ain't
a-gonna send me 'cross tlie sea :
You may say it's for defense, it's that kinda talk that I'm against; I'm
against, I'm against, that kinda talk ain't got uo sense.
Lafayette, we are here, we're gonna stay right over here; we're gonna stay
right over here.
.Marcantonio is the best. l)Ut I wouldn't give a nickel for all the rest; I
wouldn't give a nickel for all the rest.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the end of that song?
Miss Huffman. Yes; the next song is Washington Break-down
which I have read.
Mr. Matthews. I think Ave might omit the next stanza, Mr. Chair-
man.
Miss Huffman. I think it is a good example of their filthy minds.
;Mr. Matthews. It is a rather personal reference to Mr. J. P.
^lorgan.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead.
Miss Huffman.
"Wendell Willkie and Franklin D., seems to me they both agree; they both
agree on killin' me.
Mr. Mattheavs'. Xow there is a chorus of the Ballad of October 16.
Miss Huffman. This Ballad of October 16— after the meetings are
over, that is the upper Manhattan meeting, the Harlem meetmg, the
8428 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
midtown meeting, they get into Childs Restaurant or any place else,
and while they are eating they just seem to burst spontaneously into
this and Solidarity Forever, and I am just going to read the first
verse and the chorus.
It was on a Saturday night and the moon was shining bright ;
They passed the conscription bill and the people they did say for many miles
away,
'Twas the President and his boys on Capitol Hill.
Oh, Franklin Roosevelt told the people how he felt ;
We damned near believed what he said.
He said "I hate war, and so does Eleanor, but we won't be safe 'till every-
body's dead."
Mr. Mattheavs. Mr. Chairman, we would like to have the entire
collection of songs introduced at this point in the record.
Mr. Starnes. Yes; they will be introduced in the record and I
presume the records have been identified and will be kept as exhibits?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; I would like to introduce the pamphlet
"Songs for John Doe" and one other has already been received.
(The song pamphlet referred to was marked "Huffman Ex-
hibit No. 8.")
Miss Huffman. At the Mecca Temple meeting one of the speakers
was Esther Cooper, secretary of the Southern Negro Youth Congress,
who brought greetings from the Southern Congress. Miss Cooper
was followed by Mr. Hunter of the W. P. A. Committee for the Con-
tinuation of W. P. A. Then Adolph Heller, of the Philadelphia
Civil Liberties Union and former director of the Workers' School in
Philadelphia — that is the Communist Party Workers' School in Phila-
delphia, spoke regarding
Mr. Starnes. Just a moment. Is that the Heller to whom refer-
ence has been made in previous hearings?
Mr. Matthews. That is Mr. A. A. Heller, the head of the Inter-
national Publishers.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Miss Huffman. And Mr. Bernard Rush, who spoke regarding the
trial of himself and stated that incidentally — he stated incidentally
that the bomb that had been planted at the Workers School had been
planted by the New York Police Department.
IVir. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, Adolf Heller and Rush were
recently tried in Philadelphia?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. For planting a bomb, or having in their posses-
sion a bomb, in the Workers' School ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In Philadelphia?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; but his statement from that platform at
that meeting
Mr. Matthews. Was that the New York police had planted the
bomb ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir, that the bomb had been planted by the
New York police department and it was the same kind of a ruse
that had been used against Tom Mooney, and he requested the
A. P. M. delegates to take a stand against that, because he said that,
the only way they could possibly succeed was if they had the support
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8429
of the A, P. i\r., and tliat was crrectod with apphiuse and apparent,
approval by the people in that audience.
Reference to Dr. J, B. JMatthews, brought lusty hisses from the
audience.
C'lancy ]\Iiller of the International Workers Order, and Roxie
Jones were brief speakers at the meeting. Mr. Abraham Eisserman
gave a sumuiary of the meeting and the meeting closed with Chester
Watson, of Minnesota, singing another one of their songs, not pre-
viously mentioned : Not you, Mr. War,
An announcement was made that the Workers' Alliance would hold
a special meeting in the registration room. Dr. Annette Ruben-
stein, who was previously mentioned, was one of the speakers. Mrs.
Eileen Davis Hays, wife of John Garfield Hays, was a speaker and.
stated that the Women's Auxiliary of the National Maritime Union
was sending a telegram to Mrs. Roosevelt. Mrs. Katherine Beecher
spoke in place of Miss Trice, of the Federal Communications Com-
mission.
She spoke on the need to educate women to positions of union
leadership after the men were drafted. Frederick Field then spoke
on establishing opposition to war and continuing the struggle for
peace.
Mr. Matthews. Who is Frederick Field?
Miss Huffman. Frederick Field is the national executive secretary
of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. Miss Huffman, this seems to be the first time we
have found any speaker or any participant in all these meetings who
has ever gotten down to the subject of peace.
Miss Huffman. Yes. Congressman Starnes; that is why I men-
tioned it. He was practically the only speaker who dwelt even
lightly on the matter of peace. The entire meeting, just giving a
summary of the 2 days, the entire meeting was a strike campaign.
All of the speakers merely emphasized the fact that should we be-
come any closer to war, labor is not going to participate, labor was
going to strike; that further strikes were needed — that people were
to contribute to the strikes and give assistance to the strikers. The
entire meeting was a strike meeting.
Mr. Starxes. Did they say this was necessary in order to sabotage
the defense program or to disrupt production for security in order
to keep this country out of an imperialist war, or on what theme did
they base the necessity of continued strikes? Was that the theme
of it, that they were continuing these strikes so as to disrupt pro-
duction and keep this country out of war or place this country in a
position where it couldn't engage in an imperialist war? Is that the
idea?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; and the fact that labor is cari-ying on
these strikes would make it impossible for us to participate in the
war and tliat the thing that must be em])hasized was conditions at
home and the need for solidarity and the fact that the workers were
to get everything that they wanted.
I have a list here of the various organizations that contributed and
individuals, where the contributions were announced from the floor.
Shall I bring that in, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. Do you want that list, Mr. Chairman?
8430 " UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. It may be a little lengthy to read, but does it show
the contribution from Communist sources or subversive sources?
Mr. Matthews. It is just a single page.
Mr. Starnes. Let me get this straight — there was an announce-
ment fi'om the floor of those who had made contributions to the
support of the meeting?
Miss Huffman. The girls passed through the meeting taking up
these contributions and as they were taken to the platform the money
was held up and an announcement was made that that contribution
had been made. A majority of them are Communist organizations.
Mr. Starnes. Suppose you read that then, and we will insert it
in the record.
(The list referred to is as follows:)
Washington A. P. M. delegates — $100.00
New York 250. 00
American Youth Congress 100. UO
Farmers Union of Alabama 100. 00
Jonnie Bernard, Minnesota 25. 00
Jewish People of America 50. 00
Massachusetts Peace Council 50.00
Veterans of Abraham Lincoln Brigade 25. 00
National staff, A. P. M 25.00
Maryland 2.5. 00
Local No. 65, Warehouse Employees 12. 0<)
Kansas ^. 5.00
Philadelphia Peace Mobilization ^0. 00
Joint Board of Furriers Union. 225. 00
Albany 5.00
I. W. O., branch 32 — 3.00
Rockaway Council 5. 00
Bronx Study Club 5.00
U. A. W. (United Automobile Workers) 2.5.00
Steel Workers Council of Youngstown 25.00
Ford Strikers, Negro and white 27.35
Washington Youth Coiuicil — 5. 00
St. Louis and Kansas City 10. 00
Miimesota 30. 00
Florida—^ 25100
North Carolina 5. 00
Rhode Island 2.5. 00
California 100.00
North Jersey 60. 40
C. I. O. Philadelphia Committee for Peace 23. 00
Doctors of Crown Heights Hospital 2. .50
Mr. VooEHis. Nobody thinks the Farmers' Union is a Communist
organization ; do they ?
Mr. Matthews. Well, the list simply includes the name of Farmers
Union of Alabama.
Mr. VooRHis. I understand, but it was introduced with that im-
proper observation.
Miss Huffman. That a majority were. Congressman Voorhis.
Mr. Matthews. I don't know whetlier we have the same organiza-
tion in mind.
Mr. Starnes. There is one that is definitely so.
Mr. Voorhis. The Farmers' Union of the United States is one
of the three major farm organizations of the country.
Mr. Matthews. There is a Farmers' Union, about which there
is a good deal of testimony that has been presented to this committee
for a period of years, to which I think this refers.
Mr. Starnes. That is right.
UX-AMEIUCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §431
Miss HuFFMAX. There are ii few adilitionsil names of contribu-
tors— may we include these — Two Photographers from Friday, $18;
Peace Council of Connecticut, $100; and Striking Mine Workers, $5.
They had taken up a collection for the striking mine workers and
then the striking; mine workers gave a contribution to the American
Peace Mobilization.
Mr. VoORHis. You don't happen to know what happened to the
contribution for the miners; do you?
Miss Huffman. I have never heard of them making an accounting,
Congressman Voorhis, of what they do with the contributions.
Mr. Starnes. Did I understand you to say that they did take up
a contribution there for the striking mine workers and then that the
strikin<r mine workers made a contribution to the American Peace
Mobilization?
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. Mason. Which is an excellent example of cooperation.
Miss Huffman. The two committees in which I was particularly
interested, that is the two conference committees in which I was par-
ticularly interested, were also carried on at Mecca Temple, was the
commission on draft and military camps; and Joseph Cadden, presi-
dent of the American Youth Congress
Mr. Matthews. Not president but I think executive secretary.
Miss Huffman. Executive secretary of the American Youth Con-
gress, was the keynoter for that meeting.
I had managed to obtain admission to one of the labor committee
meetings. I did not have credentials. I talked my way in, and I was
in the one; but two people there recognized me so when I tried to
gain entrance to the draft and military camp committee I was un-
successful, but I did see two boys in uniform, one a sergeant and one
a private, go into that meeting.
There is an article regarding the talk was given by these two boys
from Fort Dix at this conference and it is in the literature that was
put out by the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Matthews. Can you give us that speech or those talks?
Miss Huffman. It was in reference to the condition at camp and
the fact that they needed help. We have it right here. Dr. Matthews
[reading] :
Soldier Asks A. P. M. to Protect Draftees' Rights
A proposal to set up national and local A. P. M. committees to protect the wel-
fare of draftees and their families was unanimously accepted by the commis-
sion on draft and military camps after a spirited discussion which was high-
lighted by the presence of a yoimg man in uniform from Camp Dix.
Louis ^IcCabe, a Philadelpiiia attorney and vice president of the National
Lawyers (iuild, chairman of the discussion, led off with proposals for amend-
ments to the Burke-Wadsworth hill that would guarantee free siieech and civil
liberties in the camp, and to put teeth in the health guaranties for conscripts,
protect the right to vote and do away with Negro discrimination in the draft.
For almost an hour the draftee from Fort Dix answered questions about con-
ditions in the camps. He descril)e(l how draftees at Fort Dix, watching a recent
IMarch of Time movie had brolveu out into hearty applause when Congressman
IMarcantimio appearefl on the screen and denounced the war.
The biggest fear among conscripts is that they are not in the Army just for
a year, but as the officers say "for the duration."
The young man reported that cases of meningitis and scarlet fever had proved
fatal at the camp and that cases of insanity were frequent.
62626— 41— vol. 14 18
3432 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Emerson Daggett, representative of the San Francisco Industrial Union Coun-
cil, told of plans to start a recreation center for the boys in the California camps.
He proposed that local A. P. M. groups, together with the trade unions and
youth groups, establish such centers where conscripts can find educational and
recreational activities which are sorely lacking in the camps. Mr. Daggett
emphasized the necessity of miions and other groups maintaining contact with
their members who were drafted.
Support for the Murray bill which would defer all medical students and in-
ternes and place draft doctors only in the Medical Corps was expressed by
the members of the commission.
The commission endorsed the Marcantonio bill to repeal the Draft Act and
recommended that the A. P. M. work for the passage of this bill at the same
time that it carried on campaigns to improve the welfare of draftees.
Mr. Matthews. Have you concluded with this meeting at Mecca
Temple?
Miss Huffman. No. Then the United States Foreign Policy Com-
mission, the chairman for that meeting was Max Yergan of the Ameri-
can Negro or National Negro Congress — I am bringing that out be-
cause on both of these there is evidence proving tliat they are
Communists who headed these various committees — these various
groups which were in charge of the meeting.
Then under labor they had one general conference, the chairman
of which was Donald Henderson, and Morris Watson was the
secretary.
Mr. Matthews. Before we leave that point, Mr. Chairman, per-
haps it should be observed here if the witness knows the fact, that
Donald Henderson was the first executive secretary of the American
League Against War and Fascism, and then later the American
League for Peace and Democracy; that he is publicly an avowed
member of the Communist Party and he is also head or president of
one of the C. I. O. unions.
Mr. Staknes. He was present at this meeting?
Mr. Matthews. He presided.
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. He presided at the labor conference that was held
there ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; the general conference, the big general
conference at which their new group was set up.
The others who appeared on that — there are 10 in all, half of
them appear on the list in the congressional record of the Communists
in C. I. O. organizations. They were C. J. Edelen — I am reading
all 10 — Bob Travis, Daniel Allen, and Courtney Ward. They were
the chairmen. The keynoters were Red Robinson, Al Stonkus, Elmer
Felhaber, Morris Watson, and Louis Merrill.
Those were the 10 and 5 of those apj)ear on that other list.
Mr. VooEHis. Which other list?
Miss HuFi^MAN. On the list that appears in the congressional
record of the C. I. O. — Communists in C. I. O. organizations.
At this general conference there was set up a National Labor Com-
mittee Against War of the American Peace Mobilization, of which
Morris Watson was made provisional secretary.
Mr. Matthews. Morris Watson is the vice president of the Amer-
ican Newspaper Guild, is he not?
Miss Huffman. I have the history of Morris Watson. Shall I
go into it?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §433
Mr. Matthews, Mr. Chairman, do you want an account of Morris
Watson in the record at this point?
Mr. Starnes. Was he jiresent at this meeting, taking an active
part in the meeting?
Mr. MvrTHEws. He was the keynoter.
Miss HuFFMAX. And made provisional secretary of the big group
they set up since
jS'lr. Matthews. He is secretary of the National Labor Committee
of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. You have his record there ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]MASt)N. Let us have his record.
Mr. Staknes. All right.
Miss Huffman. Morris Watson, chairman of the National — pro-
visional secretary of the National Labor Committee Against War of
the American Peace Mobilization. He is a vice president of the
American Newspaper Guild. He was a signer of the "Free Browder"
petitions that were signed at the American Peace Mobilization meet-
ing, and a list of the names appear in the Daily Worker for May 2.
He is active head of the left-wing division of the American Labor
Party.
Mr. Matthews. That is the Progressive Committee to Kebuild the
American Labor Party?
Miss Huffman. Yes. Dr. Matthews. He is a member of the execu-
tive committee of the National Federation for Constitutional Liber-
ties. Literature of that organization was also distributed at the
A. P. M. meeting, one of them being "Witch Hunt, 1941, Hits Gov-
ernment Workers." and another one "Investigating Committees and
Civil Rights." JNIorris Watson's name appears on their call for
action not on this original.
INIr. Starnes. Those can be attached to the record as exhibits.
(The pamphlets referred to were marked "Huffman Exhibits
Nos. 9 and 10.")
Miss HuFT'MAN. Tliese are both attacks on investigating com-
mittees and tell how not to accept a subpena, to a large extent.
Then the "Call for National Action Conference for Civil Eights"
that Avas held in the Hotel Hamilton in Washington, D. C. This
was distributed — these were sold and this was distributed at that
meeting and a list of the officers and sponsors that appear on the
back page, 41 of them are either officers, national officers, not local,
or sponsors of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have that list?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Including Morris Watson?
Miss Huffman. Including Morris Watson; yes.
]\Ir. Matthews. Do you have the rest of Morris Watson's record
there ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; I have Morris Watson. He is editor of
Release, a new publication published by the Jewish People's Com-
mittee, for which circulars were distributed at that meeting. And
he was a national member of the executive board of the American
League for Peace and Democracy. That appears on their letterhead
for March 24, 1939. Morris Watson was also a speaker at a meeting
8434 TJN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
in April of 1940, at which Elizabeth Giiiley Flynn, a member of
the national committee of the Communist Party was a speaker, and
Dr. Ned Dearborn, of the American Committee for Democracy and
Intellectual Freedom. Their literature was distributed at the meet-
ing. Morris Watson was a former — the unit manager of the Living
Newspaper Unit of the Federal Theater Project, W. P. A.
I have here three articles that were written by Morris Watson
for the New Theater Magazine. The first article is a description
of the Living Newspaper Unit of the Federal Theater Project, in
which it states :
As long as it is part of the W. P. A. it will be subject to petty and unfair
attacks from those revolutionary forces which see red in every letter of relief.
The second article has to do with a mass meeting, held in New
York City for W. P. A. employees and supervisors. The third
article which appears in the April 1937 issue of the New Theater
Magazine, called Sit-down Strikes, is about a play directefl by
Mr. Watson for the General Motors strikers. The play was a
play using General Motors strikers to be presented before the
strikers at the Union Hall in Flint, Mich. Mention is also made of
the speech by Mr. Watson in Lansing, Mich., that he was to make
2 days after this play was given, for the League for Industrial
Democracy. Incidentally, at that time, and I verified that a few
years back, Mr. Watson was a Federal Theater Project administra-
tive employee, supervisor at the time that he staged this play — this
sit-down strike play in Flint, Mich., where Mr. Watson, of course,
will be recalled as a former vice president of the Associated Press.
Mr. VooRHis. Did you say he gave a play for the League for Indus-
trial Democracy?
Miss HuFFJUAN. He made a speech for them.
Mr. VooRHis. Are you sure about that name ?
Miss Huffman. I will read what the magazine says :
When I arrived in Flint to lecture before the League for Industrial Democracy
on the Monday before the General Motors strike settlement I found Mary Henton
and Joseph Hernie industriously preparing a living newspaper script on the
strike.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all — did you say he was vice president of the
Associated Press ?
Miss Huffman. No, Congressman Voorhis ; I started to read some-
thing. He was vice president of the News])aper Guild and a member
of the — a speaker for the International Workers' Order. He was
conference chairman at the national conference of the Workers'
Alliance of America, speaker at the conference of the Washington
Committee for Democratic Action, and a signer of an open letter for
closer cooperation with the Soviet Union, and a sponsor of the Con-
sumers' National Federation, a speaker for the American Student
Union, a speaker for the Committee for Peoples' Rights, a member of
the Advisory Board of Frontier Films, on the council of the United
States Veterans, Inc., a member of the advisory board — and his name
appears on their letterhead — a speaker at the Greenwich Village mass
meeting for peace of the New York Peace Association. And Morris
Watson is head of this gi'oup that has been set up — amiouncement has
been made at the Building Trades Peace Council, wliich is a branch of
un-a:^ierican propaganda activities 8435
this National Labor Committee Against War. This jrroup has been
set up to form peace <>r()iii)s from 16 different trades.
The executive board of that Buiklin<2; Trades Peace Council has
Tim Murphy as president of the executive board. He is a member
of the CompVesstMl Air and Tunnel Workers' Local 147; Joe Maroolin,
secretary of the Electrical Workers Union Local No. 3; and then there
are 15 meml)ers on the executive board.
At the Buildina" Workers Peace Council meeting among the speakers
^vere Gino Rardi, the editor of L'Unita del Popolo, that was mentioned
this morning; Oscar Schellner, administrative secretary; Frank Wed-
dell, president of Local 840 of the Painters' Union. They took action
supi)orting the transport workers House Resolution 3994, which is
called the Marcantonio bill, the struggle of Ireland, support of the
Teachers' Union, the Tobey resolution to prohibit an increase in the
Federal appropriation for the unemployed, a larger housing program,
and union rights.
I ]nit those in. Congressman Starnes, because that is the active rather
than the peace activities that are carried on by all of the so-called
peace organizations.
Mr. Staenes. In other words, you put in here their so-called legis-
lative program or the conference agenda that they had at the meeting
at Mecca Temple, plus the local meeting that they had?
]Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. To show that the true character of it is not a peace
group, but merely a political grouj) whose antecedents are now sub-
ject to ciuestion. and whose relation to the Communist Party and con-
trolled by the Communist Party, you have given testimony here today ?
Miss Huffman. Yes; and the principal activities appear to be to
organize a gigantic strike movement.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, just a minute. I think you misspoke yourself
a moment ago. You said that these were the activities of all peace
movements. You don't mean to say that, do you?
Miss Huffman. Of the American branches of the American Peace
Mobilization.
Mr. VooRHis. That is right. And in the second place I would like
to ask you this: You don't mean, do you, to imply that an interest
in unemployment, for instance, or some of the otlier things that you
mentioned in that list is an indication that anyone who is interested
in those things is pursuing a Communist course, do you?
Miss Huffman. No, Congressman Yoorhis.
Mr. VooRHis. I don't mean to put words in your mouth.
Miss Huffman. No.
Mr. Yoorhis. But rather to show that this organization setting it-
self up as being an American Peace Mobilization has as a matter of
fact undertaken a great wide range of activities, covering many
different things and presumably with the idea — under Communist
leaderslii]! — of ):»enetrating into a lot of different movements, using
this as a focal point, is that right?
Miss Huffman. That is correct.
Mr. Yoorhis. Although many of those enterprises and aims may
be fundamentally sound and just and right?
Miss Huffman, Yes.
8436 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRHis. 1 think it is important to make that point.
Mr. Mason. I would like if we can have the official reporter state
exactly wliat the lady said. I didn't get it as yon inteipreted it.
Mr. VooRHis. I am not criticising her at all.
Mr. Mason. You stated she made a certain remarlc which I am
quite sure she didn't make in the way you said it and on that basis
you are questioning the testimony. I am sure that the stenographer
can give us the exact statement.
Mr. Starnes. Will you read the statement, Mr. Reporter?
(Statement read.)
Miss Huffman. The latest activity of this National Labor Com-
mittee Against War has been the signing of a call by 25 union lead-
ers, for a conference to be held on May 26, of which Morris Watson
will be the head, and notices have been sent, according to their an-
nouncement, to all labor unions in New York City.
Mr. VooRHis. When you say "25 union leaders," I am inclined to
think you ought to explain what you mean by that.
Mr. Mattheavs. Have you the list of the signers ?
Miss Huffman. Not of that list, but on the union leaders I
thought I had the file here on the labor unions.
Mr. Matthews. Congressman Voorhis, the announcement of the
American Peace Mobilization simply states "signed by 25 of the city's
outstanding trade-union leaders."
Mr. VooRHis. Let us make it plain that when that aimouncement
says that that the probabilities are there are not 25 outstanding trade-
union leaders as ordinarily understood in the labor movement in the
United States.
Mr. Maithews. Mr. Chairman, at this point we would like to re-
call Miss Spargo.
Mr. Starnes. Do you want to insert in the record at this point that
call with reference to the 25 prominent trade-union leaders?
M. Matthews. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
(The document referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit
No. IL")
TESTIMONY OF MARY SPARGO— Resumed
Mr. Mattheavs. Will you give an account of what you found to be
the situation in the Bituminous Coal Commission, as it bears upon the
American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Spargo. On March 18 of this year, this throw-away or flyer
advertising a meeting of the American Peace — or the Washington
Peace Mobilization rally at Turner's Arena, Avas found on eveiy
desk on the eleventh and twelfth floors of the Bituminous Coal Com-
mission. The speakers at this Turner's Arena rally were to be
Anna Louise Strong; Eugene P. Connolly, chairman of the Progres-
sive Committee to Rebuild the American Labor Party; George U.
Murphy, administrative secretary of the National Negro Conference
or Congress; and Sarah V. Montgomery, secretarj^-treasurer of the
Washington Peace Mobilization,
I have certain information concerning how these came to be dis-
tributed. I am very glad to give you the names of my informants
in executive session and some of the people are willing to appear be-
UN-AJIERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8437
fore the committee in executive session, but I will omit at this time the
names.
]Mr. ]\Iattheavs. "Will you state the reasons you are not naming the
individuals when you give an account of this incident?
Miss Spahgo. Yes. sir; these individuals have told me that they are
afraid to testifv^ concerning the activities of the American Peace
Mobilization, for fear of losing their jobs. Some of them have said
that they are afraid of physical violence from the Communists.
Mr. Starnes. Who told you that, Miss Spargo, your informants?
Miss Spakgo. That is correct, sir.
ISIr. Starnes. Are you willing to give the committee the names of
the informants in executive session?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]VL\TTHEAvs. Are they employees of the Bituminous Coal Com-
mission ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; they are employees of the Bituminous Coal
Commission.
Mr. Starnes. You know that of your own personal knowledge ?
Miss Spargo. Oh, yes ; I talked to them. I will read you this report,
leaving the names out.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Miss Spargo. I had information that these notices had been found
on the desks. I went to an administrative officer of the Bituminous
Coal Commission. "\Ylien I presented my credentials he said : "I am
glad indeed, to see a Dies investigator here; this place is loaded from
top to bottom with Communists; I have thought several times of
going to see Mr. Starnes and tell him what the situation is, but this
Comnumist influence is so heavy and comes from the very top I felt
it would be unwise for me to be seen at Mr. Starnes' office, because I
might lose my job."
The official said that he knew about the distribution of the Peace
Mobilization literature at the Bituminous Coal. In fact this came
from him.
Mr. Starnes. I want that made a part of the record, the call or
throw-away you have there.
(The document referred to was marked "Spargo Exhibit No. 2.")
Miss Spargo. He said that an investigator from the Interior De-
partment had spent very considerable time trying to learn who had
distributed the literature. I had been informed that the night before
the papers appeared on every desk, that they were in the desk of
Harry Rand.
Mr. Matthews. R-a-n-d?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; an attorney in the Bituminous Coal Divi-
sion. I then questioned — after conferring with this official — I then
questioned a girl employee.
Mr. Matthews. Did you question her at the office of the Bitumi-
nous Coal Commission?
Miss Spargo. I did. I went into Mr. Rand's office. I went mto
the Legal Division and I spoke to this girl in the hall privately. I
took out the pink paper and handed it to her and I said: "Were
these the papers — was this paper in Harry Rand's desk the night
before they were found on every desk in your Division,'"' and she
3438 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
replied, "Yes, those were the papers — they were the ones Mr. Kand
had in his desk."
I thereupon said : "We are very anxions to get at the bottom of
this Communist influence in this Division. I wonder if you Avould be
wdlHng to appear before an executive session of the Dies committee
and tell what you know of these papers — we would not ask you to
appear at a public hearing, we would ask you to speak only to the
Congressmen on the committee T' She looked straight at me and
she said : "But I know nothing about those papers," after being
asked to testify. She said: "I didn't see them in Mr. Rand's desk;
I know nothing about Mr. Rand ; there is nothing that I can tell the
committee."
Now, I may insert here that I have another witness who is em-
ployed in the Bituminous Coal Division who had precisely the same
experience before the Interior Department sent its investigator over
there. This same girl had informed my witness that she had seen
these in Mr. Rand's desk, but there hacl then been no investigation
started. After the investigation started she came upstairs and denied
flatly to this same witness that she had ever seen the papers.
My witness will also say that everybody is terrified about testify-
ing concerning these communistic activities in that Department.
After she said, "There is nothing that I can tell the committee," I
said, "Didn't you just tell me that those were the papers in Mr.
Rand's desk?"'
She said : "No ; I did not."
I said : "Do you mean to say that you never at any time told a
girl in your department that you had seen those papers in Mr. Rand's
desk?'*'
She said : "I could not have said that, because I never saw them —
the papers — in his desk."
I said: "I can't understand the conflict in your statements."
She said : "There is no conflict in my statements, I didn't tell you
or anybody else that I saw the papers,"
Mr. Matthews. Did you go back and discuss this matter with the
official in tlie Bituminous Coal Commission, to whom you made refer-
ence in your statement?
Miss Spargo. I had previously discussed it and he had previously
told me, "You will not pin her or anyone else down in this division —
I would not appear myself."
Mr. Matthews. Did he tell you why he would not appear ?
Miss Spargo. I think I have covered that. He said: "The Com-
munist influence is so lieavy and comes fi'om the very top I feel it
would be unwise for me to be seen at Mr. Starnes' oflice."
Mr. VoORHis. What did he mean by "the very top'' ?
Miss Spargo. I didn't ask him, sir. I am merely giving as nearly
as I can — I mean, immediatel}^ upon coming back I wrote out my
notes. Now, what he meant by the "very top," I assumed he meant
the very top of the Coal Division, but that I do not know.
Mr. Starxes. That is an assumption merely on your part following
his statement to you?
Miss Spargo. That was merely liis statement to me. I didn't ask
liim anything further.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8439
Mr. Starnes. But he said he was fearful to come to talk to Meui-
bers of Congress or u congressional conunittee even in executive
session ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct. I may say also that it was some
time previous to that that I first began hearing these stories that
these (iovernment people were terrified about testifying against the
ComnuHiists in the Government. I had heard it repeatedly from
many ditFerent people employed in the Government.
Mr. Matthews. You mean you heard that in the course of your
investigations?
Miss Si'ARGo. In the course of my investigations I heard it many
times.
Mr. VooRHis. Where had you heard tliat?
Miss Spargo. From various Government employees, Mr. Voorhis.
Mr. Voorhis, I think it is most important — I mean if we are going
to have testimony like this where we just kind of blanket in whole
divisions, then it seems to me it is absolutely incumbent on the com-
mittee thereafter to be very specific because otherwise you have im-
plicated a whole organization and I would like to say, Mr. Chairman,
if we cannot be specific about these matters I think that this type of
testimony is extremely unfair. I have every desire to try to get rid
of this influence wherever it exists, but it isn't any good to put out
a public statement to the effect that this thing comes ''from the veiy
top" or something like that, without saying who is who and who
isn't who.
ISIr. Starnes. You are willing, of course, and will gladly give to the
conunittee in executive session the name of your informant?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starxes. And any departments involved ?
Miss Spargo. Certainly, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. It isn't tlie informants I am worried about.
^Ir. Starxes. And you will give to us the division in which this
occurred — I mean in which these people were employed?
jNIiss Spargo. Yes, sir. You understand, Mr. Voorhis, I am merely
repeating a conversation.
Mr. Voorhis. I understand.
Miss Spargo. I am not personally bringing any charge.
Mr. Voorhis. I understand perfectly well what you are doing. Miss
Spargo. The thing that I am concerned about is that right at this
moment the United States is in an extremely difficult and critical
period, and it seems to me important that no committee and no agency
anywhere should, without the greatest care and specification, make
charges whicli are likely to lead to a lack of confidence on the part of
the people in their Government. Xow, if we are going to say things
like that, then we have got to pin them down, and we can't let it go
that just all over the Government people said they Avere afraid of
ph3'sical violence if they testified.
Mr. Starxes. Let us get this specific witliout giving any names
except in executive session in order to protect these people, but you
can give us the names of the departments for the record specifically.
If you talked to anyone in any particular department, you can give
us that information.
8440 UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Spargo. I talked to people in the Bituminous Coal Commis-
sion and in the Civil Service Commission. I am afraid to give you
any more than that, because my notes with, reference to it are not here.
Mr. Starnes, Do you have the notes with vou — are thev available
here?
Miss Spargo. They are not here ; no, sir.
Mr. Starnes. You will produce those for us ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthew^s. Now, you say that you were told this at the Bitu-
minous Coal Commission and also in the Civil Service Commission?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Were these responsible executives in administra-
tive positions who told you ?
Miss Spargo. Well, this one statement which I here introduced was
a responsible executive.
Mr. Matihews. In an administrative position?
Miss Spargo. Certainly. Now, I may say also and again I would
prefer to give you this in executive session, that I was very much
shocked, and I did not believe that in this Government were people
who were afraid to testify against the Communists when I first heard
it. So I thought that the logical thing to do was to take it to investi-
gators in Government departments whom I had run into in the course
of my work. I did so, and I was told by them that their fear is justi-
fied; that it has been known — "we know that people who have in-
formed against the Communists have lost their jobs in the Govern-
ment."
Mr. Starnes. That came from an investigator in another govern-
mental agency with whom you were working in cooperation?
Miss Spargo. That is correct, and I will be glad to give you the
name of the investigator who said that.
Mr. VooRHis. ]\Ir. Chairman, it seems to me the orderly procedure
in a matter of this kind is, where there are things which Miss Spargo
or any of the rest of us feel should be taken up in executive session
that the entire story should be taken up in executive session until
such time as the committee is ready to make a release on it. We
shouldn't have half of the story here which makes a kind of general
accusation and then say we are going to have the other part of it,
which becomes specific, in executive session. I think it ought to be
all one way or the other.
Mr. Starnes. Suppose you proceed with your testimony and be
as specific as you can in the instances where you can be specific. Miss
Spargo. You may proceed and we will take this other testimony in
executive session.
Miss Spargo. I know of nothing further to go into on that, Mr.
Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. I can see the justice, of course, in the position stated
by Mr. Voorhis, that we should proceed with precaution; that there
shouldn't be a blanket indictment and there is no blanket indictment.
I want to say for the record, that neither this committee nor any
other committee that I know of is making any charges. We are
simply hearing testimony. We haven't even filed a charge. We
are merely hearing testimony and as to what our verdict will be,
only time and time alone can tell.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §441
I want the record straight so there will be no quotation that the
connnittee is charoino- anything. We are merely hearino- testimony
under oath of a competent witness with reference to certain matters
of public importance, that the public ought to know about if it is
true and exists. I don't know of anythino- that is of more vital
importance to the Nation in this critical hour than that we should
know who in responsible positions, either administrative or executive,
whose loyalty to the American democracy is in doubt. That is of
prime importance and I don't know of anything that transcends it
in importance — whether or not the people who are Avorking for this
Government are loyal to America and its institutions.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to say it is my personal opinion that
the overwhelming majority of such people are loyal. I think the
job of the committee is to get very accurate information about things
of that kind. I think it is more important for the people to get accu-
rate information, that is the point I make.
Mr. Starnes. I quite agree with the gentleman.
Mr. jMatthews. Now, Miss Spargo, did you make an investigation
of the activities of the American Peace Mobilization in the Wash-
ington Navy Yard?
]\riss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you make such an investigation ?
Miss Spargo. I did, JDr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have a report on that investigation ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Starnes. Just a minute, Dr. Matthews. The chair will make
the following statement :
At the beginning of the session this morning the chair called the
names of Mr. Hersey and INIiss Koenigsberg for the express purpose
of determining whether or not they were in the committee room in
answer to subpenas directing them to be present today and to bring
their records.
It was not the thought of the committee to investigate or to receive
evidence concerning these parties and the organizations or individuals
whom they might represent, but merely to determine whether they
had responded to the call of the subpenas and were present with their
records.
The committee is glad to state they are present and have brought
the records called for, and have agreed to cooperate fully with us
and the committee appreciates that fact.
Whether or not these parties testify in the future depends, of
course, upon the result of our conferences with those two witnesses
who were subpenaed, and an examination of their records. If so, clue
notice will be given them and if they want counsel, should a hearing
be held, they are entitled to it.
At the time they appeared this morning it seems that counsel from
the national headquarters of the organization to which they belong
was present in the room and attemjited to make a statement. He ap-
parently was under a misapprehension because he had just arrived,
so he states, in the city and knew nothing of the facts and was merely
pleading for time to have an opportunity to examine the record.
The Chair is glad to make this announcement and to say that so far
as we are concerned the incident is closed and hope no unpleasant
8442 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
inferences may be drawn from what occurred at the time. It was
merely a misunderstanding on the part of this attorney as to why
this hidy and this gentleman were called.
The committee had no intention of examining tliem today nor
examining into the records, but just merely to ascertain, as a matter
of record, whether or not they had appeared and had brought their
records with them; and with that the incident is closed.
Now the Chair wishes to call the committee into executive session.
There will be no further public hearings today. Our hearings will
be resumed tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 3 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m.,
Thursday, May 22, 1941.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PEOPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, MAY 22, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee to
Investigate Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., in the caucus room, House
Office Building, Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee), Voor-
liis, and Mason.
Also present: Mr. Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, reseai'cli director.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will resume its session.
"Wlio is your first witness, Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matthews, Miss Spargo.
TESTIMONY OF MARY SPARGO— Eecalled
Mr. Matthews. Miss Spargo, you met Julia Marcus in your
investigation of the American Peace Mobilization, did you not?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Julia Marcus is one of the very active participants
in the work of the American Peace Mobilization in Washington?
Miss Spargo. She is.
Mr, Maithews. Is she a Government employee?
Miss Spargo. Yes; she is. She is employed in Employment Se-
curity.
Mr, Matthews, In the Employment Security?
Miss Spargo. Yes,
Mr. Matthews, Did Miss Marcus ever talk with you about the prog-
ress of the American Peace Mobilization in the navy yard in AVash-
ington?
Miss Spargo, She did. She said they were making considerable
progress in organizing in the navy yard,
Mr, Matthews. Did you in your investigation find that one
Charles T. Gift was active in the iVmerican Peace Mobilization in
Washington?
Miss Spahc;(). I did.
Mr. Starnes. Is that the same Charles T, Gift that the com-
mittee heard in executive session with reference to his activities
in the American League for Peace and Democracy?
8443
8444 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews, That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. He is the same man who gave ns testimony with
reference to Communist activities in the navy yard in an executive
session? That is the same Charles T. Gift?
Mr. Matthews That is correct.
And the information which you obtained in your investigations is
to the eifect that Charles T. Gift is still employed at the navy yard,
is that correct?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Spargo, did you attend a meeting of the
Washington delegation to the American People's Meeting which
Avas held at the Roumanian Inn, or was that here in Washington?
Miss Spargo. I think the meeting to which you are referring is
a meeting of the Washington delegation in New York City on
Sunday, April 6.
Mr. Matthews. And was that held at the Roumanian Inn?
Miss Spargo. No; the Roumaniaji Inn is here in Washington.
Mr. Matthews. You did attend a meeting of the American Peace
Mobilization in Washington at the Roumanian Inn, did you not?
Miss Spargo. No, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. You did not ?
Miss Spargo. I did not.
Mr. Matthews. The meeting which you attended of the Washing-
ton delegation in New York was held where ?
Miss Spargo. It was held in Mecca Temple.
Mr. Matthews. Did Helen Miller
Miss Spargo. The one — this particular one to which I have refer-
ence was held in Mecca Temple.
Mr. Matthews. Did Helen Miller participate in that meeting?
Miss Spargo. She did.
Mr. Matthews. Did she make a speech ?
Miss Spargo. She did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you tell us what Helen Miller had to say at
that meeting of the Washington delegation ?
Miss Spargo. Yes. I am referring to Helen Schnatzler Miller,
the wife of Hugh B. Miller, chairman of the grievance committee of
Local 12, Labor Department U. F. W. A. Her husband has been
active in the American Peace Mobilization and is secretary of the
Washington Committee for Democratic Action. He is an attorney
in the Bituminous Coal.
Miss Miller at the Washington delegation in New York City, was
speaking of the necessity of pay raises for Government employees.
In the course of that speech she called this a Fascist Government.
She said that America was "an imperialist nation which wanted to
engage upon an imperialist war for world conquest." She said that
in the meantime this Government underpaid, overworked, and poorly
housed its workers.
She also of course, scored the investigations of Government workers.
I may say in regard to this term ' 'Fascist" it is in very general use
among members of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. They refer to America as a "Fascist State" ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
UN-AMEiaCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8445
'Mr. Starnes. AikI she particularly on this occasion scored this
Government as beino; a ''Fascist Government"?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Bent upon engaging in an imperialist war for world
conquest ?
jNIi.ss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. And criticized it for overworking, underpaying, and
giving poor housing or affording poor housing for its own employees?
Miss Spargo. She described the treatment by this Government of
its workers as shameful.
Mr. Starnes. She is a Government employee herself?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. And you described her as such ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. And have given us the agency with which she works ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. And did I understand you to say that this was a
somewhat geneial indictment or a general charge that was being
made by members of the American Peace Mobilization, to the effect
that America was a "Fascist State" and about to "engage upon an
impejialist war" ?
Miss Spargo. ^Many of the members of the group particularly men-
tioned the President and ]Mrs. Roosevelt and Mr. Dies as being the
three chief Fascists in the United States.
Mr. Starnes. Did you hear any of these Government employees
making statements to that effect?
Miss Spargo. I did.
Mr. Starnes. You did?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Can you name those?
Miss Spargo. Yes; some of them. I wonder if you want me to
name just one or two. I mean when there are so many who said
that.
Mr. Starnes. I would rather you would give us a complete list —
if you will furnish the committee with a complete list of those en-
gaging in activities such as those or making statements such as those.
Miss Spargo. It was such a widespread thing, Mr. Starnes. There
was so much said. It would be difficult to give you a complete list.
I mean it was so general. It was the general tenor of the conversa-
tions.
Mr. Starnes. If you will furnish us as complete a list as you are
able to.
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. For the record. You may proceed.
Mr. Matthews. In looking over issues of the Daily Worker and
other Communist publications during your investigation, have you
found that that is also the Communist Party line with respect to
the United States Government?
Miss Spargo. Yes : I have.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever at any time in talking with the
people who are at work in the American Peace Mobilization, detect
3446 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
any deviation from the Communist Party line on the part of those
individuals ?
Miss Spargo. I did not.
Mr. Matthews. Would you say that the Communist Party line
as you are acquainted with it, completely coincides with the line of
the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Spargo. It does completely coincide with the line of the
American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph, Miss Spargo, and ask you
if you can identify Helen Miller, about whom you have spoken, as
one of the persons in that photograph? [Handing photograph to
the witness.]
Miss Spargo. Reading from left to right is Nellie Schafer, Matilda
Katz, and Helen Miller.
Mr. Matthews. Helen Miller is at the right ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct,
Mr. Matthews. Will you please describe what that is a picture of ?
Miss Spargo. That is a picture of part of the Washington delega-
tion leaving for the American Peace Mobilization at the Chicago
Stadium on August 31. It is a picture of the three young ladies
standing on the jilatform of the car — I mean on the rear of the train.
Mr. IVIatthews. Mr. Chairman, I aak that that photograph be
received as an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The photograph was marked as "Spargo Exhibit No. 1, May
22, 1941.")
Mr. Matthews. Will you complete your account of Miss Miller's
speech at the meeting of the Washington delegation?
Miss Spargo. Yes. At the meeting of the Washington delega-
tion
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever attend any meetings of the American
Peace Mobilization where the subject of the Glenn Martin airplane
plant was discussed ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give the committee an account of
what was said at that meeting or those meetings?
Miss Spargo. The subject of the 7,000 jobs for Negroes at Glenn L.
Martin was discussed at every meeting which I attended. I believe.
Mr. Matthews. That is the'Glenn Martin airplane plant at Balti-
more, is it not?
Miss Spargo. That is correct; and buttons like this were sold at some
of the meetings.
Mr. Matthews. Buttons like this were sold at the meetings of the
American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; that particular button was sold at a meeting
of the AVashington Peace Mobilization at 1633 U Street NW.—
Majestic Studio, April 18.
Mr. Mattheavs. Will you please read what the button says?
Miss Spargo (reading). "7,000 jobs for Negroes at Glenn L. Martin,
National Negro Congress."
Mr. Matthews. I ask that that be received as an exhibit, Mr.
Chairman.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8447
ISTr. Starnes. It is so ordei-ed.
(The button referred to was marked "Spargo Exhibit No. 2,
May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Staijnes. This particular item was the subject matter of dis-
cussion at a meetintr of the American Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Si'AKGo. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. The employment of 7,000 Negros in the Glenn Martin
plant?
Miss Sparoo. Yes, sir.
ISIr. Starnes. And was it a subject matter of discussion before the
Washiuiiton chai)ter here or the Washington group?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr, Starnes. Of the American Peace Mobilization?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; in fact it is — in fact the Washington Peace
Mobilization group made posters for the rally that was to have been
held or was held in Baltimore.
Mr. Matthews. Will you describe what the discussion amounted to?
Mr. Starnes. What is that ?
Mr, Matthews. I am asking about the nature of the discussion
about the employment of the 7,000 Negroes in the Glenn Martin plant.
Mr. Starnes. Finish that and then I have some questions I want to
ask about another item.
Miss Spargo. Reading from a report of a meeting at the Majestic
Studio at 1633 U Street NW., on April 16
Mr. Matthews. Is this your own report?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Your own notes on what was said at that meeting?
Miss Spargo. That is correct, Mrs. Dorothy Strange urged attend-
ance at the rally in Baltimore on April 27 to get jobs for 7,000 Negroes
at the Glenn L, Martin plant. She and others sold these buttons.
Jack Zucker, vice pi^esident of the Washington American Peace Mobil-
ization and a representative of the Shoe Workers' Union, added to her
report which concerned the necessity of these 7,000 jobs. He urged
that every A. P. M. member support this drive on Glenn L. Martin
and said:
You must rpalize that it is not only a question of getting justice for Negro
brothers, but if we achieve this victory and actually get jobs for 7,000 Negroes
down there we have got 7,000 new members of our union. Think what that
will mean to us,
Henry Thomas, a Negro leader of the southwest branch of the Com-
munist Party — that is how lie is listed in the police records — reporting
on the view of the Negro — Mr. Thomas was asked what success he had
had in encouraging the Negroes to apply for those jobs, and he said :
"Well, in view,-' he said, "Negroes in general are too lukewarm to our
peace movement." He said : "They hope that the war will bring them
jobs that they have not been able to get before."
He also said that the trouble was, the difficulty was in organizing
among the Negroes that they couldn't understand why the American
Peace Mobilization should be interested in getting them itito Glenn L,
Martin to manufacture war goods.
He said that many Negroes suggested that a peace movement
shoud take just the opposite stand. He said that many Negroes
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 19
8448 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
with whom he had talked said that in their view if this was a peacft
movement they should be urging people to take no part whatever iu
any defense industry.
This comment met with a general laugh. You understand that
Mr. Thomas was reporting on the attitude of Negroes whom he
had tried to organize — that was not his point of view.
Mr. Starnes. Their simple logic was they couldn't understand
why a peace movement, if it was a peace movement, was interested
in obtaining jobs for Negroes in a war industry?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. They couldn't follow that logic?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. You say that was met with general laughter?
Miss Spargo. That cominent was met with very general laughter.
One man whom I would recognize but whose name I do not have,
said: "Well, certainly, in some cases it could be explained to the
Negroes or to certain of our brothers, what they could do if they
could get a job in a defense industry."
Mr. Starnes. The implication being, of course, they would be in
a position to sabotage the defense program?
Miss Spargo. I so took it.
Mr. VooRHis. May I ask a couple of questions, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. Did you get the impression that the Peace Mobili-
zation organization was interested in getting jobs for Negi'oes as such
and because they were Negroes, or was it just because they were Ne-
groes that they wanted to see them get good jobs and be able to make
a living? Was that why they were interested in it?
Miss Spargo. No. Of course it is a very complicated picture.
Mr. VooRHis. I don't think it is complicated at all. Let me ask
you another question : Weren't they interested in getting a particular
group of persons who were sympathetic to their point of view, who
might be willing to cooperate with the Comnumist leadership of this
organization no matter who they were, but that they believed that
by raising this issue it might be possible for Mr. Thomas and otheis
to see that the particulaiiy right ones would get in? Isn't that
actually the case?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; that is correct. And also they made it very
plain they didn't want them all to go at once. They had a plan
that every day from 30 to 100 Negroes would apply at Glenn L.
Martin. That was discussed on several occasions. They planned
to send out press releases each day when they said those applicants
would be turned down. They said when the applicants would be
turned down: "We will send to every newspaper a statement that
'today 30 Negroes were refused jobs at this Jim Crow plant,' " but
they said : "We must see to it that those Negroes who apply are
Negroes with whom we have come in contact."
Iix other words, they did not Avant just any Negro — they wanted
Negroes who had been influenced to their point of view.
Mr. VooRHis. It seems to me that is important.
Mr. Starnes. I think that is highly important and very sig-
nificant.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make this obser-
vation with regard to tliese hearings: Speaking for myself and
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES g449
I believe the committee would agree, I know that there are a great
many i)e()i)le in the I'nited States that sincerely are working for
peace; that what these hearings have to do is to show the degree
to which one organization that is controlled by a foreign govern-
ment is att^mipting to utilize this sincere desire to serv'e its own
ends, and to show that although an organization may be called a
"peace organization*' that in fact it may not be that at all; that
ihese liearings are not intended in any slightest degree to cast any
discredit on any sincere peace movement in the United States which
is an expression of sincere conviction on the part of the American
people with regard to our foreign policy.
That isn't a matter, of course, that the committee would, obviously,
go into.
Mr. Starnes. Yon may resume your questioning.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Spargo, following up the statement
by Mr. Voorhis, was it not also your distinct impression that the
American Peace Mobilization was out to exploit the question of
racial justice) for ends which did not have particularly to do with
the bettering of conditions of Negro people?
Miss Spargo. That is absolutely correct. I felt very strongly that
they really didn't care one particle what actually haj^pened to the
Negroes as a Avhole, or to any individual Negro, provided he could
serve the ends of Soviet Russia.
Mv. Starnes. In all of the meetings that you attended of the Amer-
ican Peace Mobilization, either here or elsewhere, when you con-
sidered the program or the agenda which was under discussion and
the general tenor and tj'pe of meetings, did it give you an impres-
sion that here was a group of people genuinely interested in peace
who were disciples of peace, or did you obtain an impression that
hei-e was a group who were following the political line which is
being forced on this country by a foreign government?
Miss Spargo. I certainly was convinced that they were following
the political line of a foreign government. They talked about strikes
continuously. Strikers came to the rally in New York who were
right off the picket lines, and people were wearing these buttons.
Ford buttons and Chief Steward, United Automobile Workers, and
the International Harvester strikers.
Mr. Starnes. Did you see anyone there who purported to be from
the Allis-Chalmers plant?
Miss Spargo. Oh, yes; Allis-Chalmers plant, and they contributed
money to this American Peace Mobilization, all of them, and they
were wildh' cheered when they did so.
Mr. Starnes. Was the question of strikes in national-defense in-
dustries constantly under discussion and consideration at these vari-
ous meetings?
Miss Spargo. Yes; they were.
Mr. Starnes. What was the purport of the discussions? Was it
to support strikes of that type and nature in order to hinder and ham-
string the United States of America?
Miss Spargo. That is it.
Mr. Starne.s. In its effort to speed up its security program and
provide a defense for this country?
3450 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Spargo. That is correct. They said they were out to get
General Motors and talked about Big Steel and Little Steel — I mean
the whole tenor of the thing was definitely fomenting strikes in order
to hamper tlie national defense.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't that a part of the Communist Party line in
this country, to impede the efforts of the United States to defend
itself if it is about to engage in an "imperialist war"?
Miss Spargo. Tliat is so.
Mr. Starnes. I think, of course, the members of the committee
have laiowledge of the fact that the one-time leader of the Com-
munist Party, who has been offered for the Presidency on more than
one occasion, stated before this committee, if I remember correctly,
in 1939, that that was a part of their program and it would be carried
forward to such an extent that they would not only promote strikes
in national-defense industries and strife, but they would attempt to
bring about civil war in this country if necessary.
Mr, Matthews. Mr. Browder said he would attempt to precipitate
civil war.
Mr. Starnes. All right. Dr. Matthews, you may proceed.
Mr. Matthews. Does that conclude your statement of the account
of the discussion of the Glenn Martin plant and the question of the
employment of Negroes at that plant?
Miss Spargo. Yes; I think I did say that the members worked on
posters and all that sort of thing. I mean there was a very great
deal of work done by the A. P. M. in connection with the Glenn L.
Martin rally,
Mr. Starnes, I would like to get a matter straight in my mind.
Dr. Matthews, about some previous testimony given by the witness.
This Helen Miller you spoke of a moment ago, you stated was the
wife of Hugh Miller?
Miss Spargo. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And Hugh Miller is an attorney for this Washington
Committee on Democratic Action — is that the name of the commit-
tee?
Miss Spargo. I have him listed as a secretary, but I may be in
error on that.
Mr. Mason. He is counsel for the Bituminous Coal Division.
Mr. Starnes. You stated she is a Government employee?
Miss Spargo. That is so. She was representing her local as a
delegate.
Mr. Starnes, Where is she employed?
Miss Spargo, I believe in the Labor Department.
Mr. Starnes. Where was this speech made that she made that you
refer to?
Miss Spargo. At the American People's Meeting in New York
City.
Mr, Starnes. Do you recall whether or not in her own speech she
referred to these "three leading Fascists in this Government"?
Miss Spargo. I don't recall that.
Mr. Starnes. But others present who spoke did refer to the Pres-
ident, his wife, and Mr. Dies as "being three of the leading Fascists
in the country"?
Miss Spargo, Yes, sir.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8451
Mr. Starnes. But Helen Miller repeatedly made the statement
that
Miss Spakgo. "Tliis is a Fascist Government" — that "America is a
Fascist Government."
Mr. Starnes. And it was about to engage in an imperialist war
for world conquests
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Did you obtain the general impression at these meet-
ings, or were you instructed yourself, as a member of this organization,
that you should constantly exploit the racial question?
Miss Spargo. That is so.
Mr. Starnes. Was that among the instructions that you received,
that you should in every manner possible exploit racial discrimination
and racial justice and hatred?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. All right, Dr. Matthews,
Mr. Matthews. Did you, in your investigation, encounter a man
luimed Greenberg?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What is Greenberg's full name ?
Miss Spargo. Robert N. Greenberg.
Mr. Matthews. G-r-e-e-n-b-e-r-g ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Do jou know whether or not Robert N. Greenberg is
a Government employee?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; he is. He works, I believe it is, with the Labor
Department. I don't happen to have that particular list here, Dr.
Matthews, but I am quite sure that that is the fact. In any event, he is
a Government employee.
Mr. Matthews. Did you find that Greenberg had any police record
in the District of Columbia ?
Miss Spargo. Yes. He was arrested June 9, 1938, for distributing
literature at the navy yard without a permit.
Mr. Matthews. Was anyone else arrested with him ?
Miss Spargo. Matilda Katz, one of those in that picture.
Mr. Matthews. Arrested with him on that occasion?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. ]VIatthews. Which one is Matilda Katz ?
Miss Spargo. She is in the middle.
Mr. Matthews. The person in the middle of this exhibit 1?
Miss Spargo. Yes. She was another member of the American Peace
Mobilization. She was arrested with Mr. Greenberg on the same
occa^sion.
Mr. Matthews. And are they both active in the American Peace
Mobilization ?
Miss Spargo. Tliey are.
Mr. Matthews. They were arrested by the Washington Police De-
partment?
Miss Spargo. According to the records; yes.
Mr. Matthews. For illegal distribution of literature at the navy-
yard gates?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Spargo, was there any discussion at
these meetings or elsewhere amon": the members of the American
8452 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Peace Mobilization about what the American Peace Mobilization
should attempt to do among draftees ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give the committee a full account
of the discussion that took place about what the xlmerican Peace
Mobilization should do with reference to draftees?
Miss Spargo. In the firet place there was at their headquarters a
good-sized bookcase full of literature. It concerned the Washington
Committee for Democratic Action, it concerned the Aid to China,
it concerned Spanish Loyalists and all that sort of literature. There
was a separate section of that same bookcase set aside for literature
on the draft.
Here in one piece issued by the Washington Youth Council, 907
Fifteenth Street, NW.
Mr. Starnes. Washington Youth Council?
Miss Spargo. That is correct. That was on the shelf.
Mr. Starnes. What is the general tenor of that? It deals with
the draft, does it ? I will read it :
Young people of Washington, democracy works, save it by using it. Take
your pick. Tlie numbers are up. Has yours been called? Your brothers, your
friends, your sons, your boy friends, your liusbands.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please read this line which is the slogan ?
Miss Spargo. "Democracy or conscription."
Mr. Starnes. "Democracy or conscription?"
Miss Spargo. That is so.
Mr. Starnes. What is the general tenor of that literature? Is it
an attack upon the draft? Is that the general tenor of this liter-
ature, Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matthews. The literature as I have read it — the witness may
speak for herself, does not come out overtly and attack the draft
act but calls for very wide and drastic amendments to the act.
Will you have this in evidence, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
(The pamphlet referred to was marked as "Spargo Exhibit No.
3, May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Matthews. May I ask you if the Washington Youth Council
is an affiliate of the American Youth Congress ?
Miss Spargo. That is so.
Mr. Matthews. Do you wish to modify in any way the statement
which I made about the attitude of this literature toward the draft?
Miss Spargo. No ; you stated it correctly.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please identify this piece of literature?
Miss Spargo. This is a piece of literature published by — which was
also on the slielf, published in the Washington American Peace
Mobilization headquarters, published by the National Federation for
Constitutional Liberties.
Mr. Matthews. And what is the title of this piece of literature?
Miss Spargo. The Draft Act and Your Rights, Your Right to
Criticize, Advocate Change or Repeal.
Mr. Matthews. And that is the tenor of the discussion throughout
this piece of literature, is it?
Miss Spargo. That is the tenor of the discussion; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you receive this in evidence as an exliibit?
UN- A Mi: I tic AN I'liOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8453
Ml". Stahnes. It is so onloi'od.
(The paper referred to was marked "Spargo Exhibit No. 4, May
22, 1941.")
Miss ISrAR«o. Ami tliis piece of literature is a piece of literature put
out by the Auiericau Peace Mobilization, 1116 Veruiont Avenue. NW.,
Reconunendat ions for Mai^iiiii- the Bul•ke-^^'a(ls\vortll Act and its Ad-
ministration as Truly Democratic as Possible.
Mr. Matthews. Will you receive this in evidence, Mr. Chairman?
^Ir. Starxes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Spargo Exhibit No. 5,
May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Starxes. AVas all of this literature that you have here on dis-
play, beino- distributed there at this meetin«»- in New York City?
Miss Spargo. Yes. This was certaiidy distributed, this National
Federation for Constitutional Liberties and much of the other ma-
terial of the same kind. I do not recall this American Peace Mobiliza-
tion
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not literature of that type
or character could be obtained from the Washington Bookshop?
Miss SPARGt). Yes. sir.
^Ir. Starxes. It could ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. MArrHEws. Now did you find in their discussions at meetings
and elsewhere that tliey made much more explicit their purposes with
reference to draftees than they did in this printed literature?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. jM atphews. Now will you please outline what it is they had to
say in their conversaticms or speeches about work among draftees?
Miss Spargo. For part of the slant I go back to the part of the
speech of Annette Eul)instein at the American People's Meeting in
New York City. To the best of my recollection she said that since a
draft of labor is not only ])ossible but probable, that women would
have to take a more militant point of view in the trade-union work;
that women were going to have to be more militant and it was re-
peatedly said by other s})eakers
Ml'. MATfHEws. Who Mas that speaker?
Miss Spar(;(». Annette Kiibiustein. You recall we have consider-
able material on that. Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Miss SpAKGo. ''Em])loyers'' — I am quoting her from this six-page
mimeogia[)hed folder:
Statistics on local draft boards already show that they are composed over-
whelniinjrly of business ;ind professional men and that the representation of
labor tlicreon is almost negligible.
Since there are no group deferments and only individuals can be deferred,
a draft of labor is possilile and probable. Employers hostile to labor miions
will certify that imnunion oiiiployes are necessary and union members not
necessary.
Local draft boards without labor representation may with impunity co-
oi^erate in such discriminatory practices unless the act is amended to safeguard
labor's rights.
Then another slant, of course, which is taken is the reiteration of
elimination of Jim Crowism from the Arm}, which also follows
Mr. Starn'^es. In other words, they were advocating the Draft
8454 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Act be so amended that some representatives of organized labor
would have to serve on all local draft boards — is that the general
tenor of their discussion?
Miss Spargo. I would say so; yes, sir. Those are exact quotes
I was reading you.
Mr. Starnes. You may go ahead now with your Jim Crowism state-
ment.
Miss Spargo. On the Negro shelf is a four-page mimeographed
sheet under the heading : "Did the Last World War Bring Democracy
to the Negro People? Let Us Look at a Few of the Facts"; and
it refers to a special, secret order sent out by the high command of
the American Expeditionary Forces in France, stating that Negro
soldiers were not to be given any treatment that might be interpreted
as social equality.
Mr. Matthews. Did you attend meetings where the matter of
draftees was discussed?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you remember any of the conversations that
took place at those meetings ?
Miss Spargo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. AVill you please outline what they were?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And who made the remarks.
Miss Spargo. On the bulletin boards at the headquarters are posted
all articles which might possibly tend in any way to criticize the
draft, with particular things underlined.
There was one article, for example, said that letters from home
complaining of home conditions made boys homesick. That was
underscored, and it said : "It undermines their morale." That was
heavily underscored. Then at a meeting of the northwest peace group
on April 22, at the home of Bob Austin and Lou Bibberman, 2023
O Street Northwest
Mr. Matthews. Will you please spell that name ?
Miss Spargo. Bob A-u-s-t-i-n and Lou B-i-b-b-e-r-m-a-n.
The chairman said :
We have a big job cut out for us. The A. P. M. has asked each branch to set
up its own draft committee. We find that very few people know the draft
regulations and we must study them to find out just what exemptions are
allowed.
iMany conscripts are being drafted who could be deferred if they knew the
law. It is up to us to help them. We must figlit any extension of that year
of service and see to it that the Government keeps its pi'omise to let the boys
out at the end of a year.
Then again right here in Washington we are surrounded by camps. It is up
to us, it is up to each one of you as an individual, to meet the boys when they
come in for weekends, and we must give them a good time. We must let them
see that the A. P. M. is working for true American democracy. We must let
them see that we have something to offer in the way of protection of their rights
to work and live free lives away from the Fascist domination of this Government.
Attention was called to the fact that the Government was discour-
aging— the charge was made that the Government was discouraging
letters from home to the boys because letters undermine their morale.
The chairman said :
That brings up another point. It is up to us to see that the boys get plenty
of those homesick letters. We must fight the Fascists on all fronts.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8455
Mr. Starxes. In other words, it would be a part of the program of
the American Peace Mobilization to undermine the morale of the
soldiei's of the United States Army?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starxes. And that was to be accomjilished by having homesick
letters written to them and b}^ other devious methods?
Miss SrARGO. That is correct.
Mr. jSIattitews. In your investigation you found out about this
meeting at the Roumanian Inn?
Miss Si'ARGO. Yes ; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you describe what took place there ?
Miss Spargo. On April 26
Mr. Starxes. This is a meeting on April 26 at tho Roumanian Inn?
Miss Spargo. Yes ; of the Washington Peace Mobilization.
Mr, Starxes. All right — this year ?
Miss Spargo. Yes. Susan B. Anthony declared at this meeting :
We must go I'ight into the camps and see what is going on ; we must be sure
we do get iuto tlie camps.
Miss Anthony read a letter purported to be from a soldier at Camp
Dix stating that in a recent forest fire five boys had been killed, but
she said :
The kept capitalistic press has suppressed that news at the request of this
capitalistic Government.
She said that her informant had told her that the food at Camp
Dix was veiy poor indeed. I believe that the informant also said
that on certain days the draftees had nothing to eat but bologna
sandwiches.
Mr. Matthews. Was there anything else that took place at the
Roumanian Inn?
Miss Spargo. Yes; Mrs. Montgomery
Mr. Starxes. '\Mio is this Susan B. Anthony you are referring to?
Miss Spargo. She is a young Government employee.
Mr. Starxes. A young Government employee ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starxes. That is not the gi'eat suffragist leader that you are
referring to ?
Miss Spargo. No; I believe she is a descendent. I haven't fully
checked on that.
Mr. Starxes. I just want to make it clear that you are not testify-
ing with regard to her.
Now the letters you referred to awhile ago, Miss Spargo, about
homesickness, those letters were a type of letters that they wanted
written to the boys which would tend to develop homesickness on the
part of the young fellows ?
Miss Spargo. That is right.
Mr. Starxes. ^Make them discontented with camp life and so forth ?
Miss Spargo. That is right.
Mr. Starxes. Now do you know what Government agency tins
Susan B. Anthony, this young Susan B. Anthony works in?
Miss Spargo. I don't know unless Dr. Matthews has it.
Mr. Matthews. The record in our file shows she is with the Na-
tional Youth Administration.
8456 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Do you have some more material on this question of the draft ?
Miss Spakgo. Yes. In New York at the Youth Workshop there
was a play presented which was as powerful a piece of antiwar
propaganda as I think I have ever seen. It was Johnny Got His
Gun. It shows a soldier of the last World AVar ending up as a blind,
deaf, immobile hunk of flesh. All these people at the Youth Work-
shop, it was freely admitted, were Comnumists.
Mr. Matthews. The play Johnny Got His Gun was written by
Dalton Trumbo ^
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was that the story that was run serially in the
Daily Worker?
Miss Spargo. That is it.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have any discussions at that Youth Work-
shop in New York about this play with any of the people who were
there ?
Mi_ss Spargo. Yes ; we discussed it at great length as a very effective
piece of antiwar propaganda — very effective.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go to that Youth Workshop in company
among others, with Ted Ozmun?
Miss Spargo. That is so.
Mr. Matthews. And was it at that Youth Workshop that Ted
Ozmun told you about how close the Communist Party was to the
American Peace Mobilization — how completely it controlled it?
Miss Spargo. Yes. It was there and in other subsequent conver-
sations.
Mr. Starnes. What is the difference, if any, between the Ameri-
can People's Meeting and this Youth Workshop ? Is there any tie-up
or connection or correlation or cooperation between the two groups?
Miss Spargo. The Youth Workshop gave a party for the delegates
to the American People's Meeting — for some of them.
Mr. Starnes. Was there any expression of sympathy with the
aims of the American Peace Mobilization or did there seem to be an
identity of program?
Miss Spargo. There was a complete identity of program.
Mr. Starnes. Complete identity of program ?
Miss Spargo. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. And concerted action ?
Miss Spargo. That is it.
Mr, Starnes. All right.
Miss Spargo. I would also like to refer to the attitude toward men
ill uniform, which was displayed (m all sorts of occasions.
At fii'st at the American People's IVfeeting when there was a con-
script, or a man in uniform, a soldier, who was attending the meet-
ing— there were several soldiers in attendance at that American
People's Meeting, and the delegates sitting around had a tendencv
to whisper about "here is a man in uniform" and someone else would
make the reply — some other member would say: "We have got a
conscript army now. Don't you realize that these are conscripts —
these aren't professional soldiers — these aren't slaves of the capital-
ists. These men don't necessarily want to be in the Army. You
must make friends with the soldiers and not make fun of them";
and I repeatedly observed that program put into action. That i<?
UN-A3IKRICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES §457
they AV(Mil(l o-o up to a man in uniform and approach him in a
friendly manner.
Mr. Starnes. We Avill take a short recess at this time.
("Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
Mr. Starxes. You may proceed. Dr. ^lattheAvs.
INIr. jMatihews. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Miss Huffman
again.
Mr. Starnes. Very well.
TESTIMONY OF HAZEL HUFFMAN— Recalled
Mr. Matthews. ISIiss Huffman, I show you a copy of a telegi-am
and ask you if you have seen a copy of that?
(Handing telegram to the w^itness.)
Miss Huffman. Yes, Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please describe the telegram and read it?
Ilkliss Huffman. The telegram is from Marian Briggs of the Ameri-
can Peace Mobilization. It is a day letter and sent to a series of
addresses. The telegi-am reads as follows :
Peace vigil at Wliite House approaching 340th hour. Still going strong.
Urgently need money to keep line going. Vigil costs $100 per day. Please air
mail special any funds you can.
The telegram is addressed to eight people: George Marshall, 38
East Fifty-seventh Street, New York City; Mrs. Guggenheimer, An-
sonia Hotel, New York City — that is Mrs. J. C. Guggenheimer be-
cause of the address; Anna Rochester, 85 Bedford Street, New York
City; Mrs. Ellen Brandstetter, 637 Arlington Place, Chicago, 111.;
Harvey O'Connor, Hull House. Chicago, 111.; Alfred K. Stern, 30
Rockefeller Plaza. New York City; Lionel Stander, care of Native
Son. St. James Theater, West Forty-fourth Street, New York City,
and Herbert Biberman, 603 Delta Building, 426 South Spring Street,
Los Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Starnes. Is that a copy of a telegram or the original telegram
that was obtained from the Postal Telegraph Co. by proper subpena
from this committee, and is this the information which was furnished
the committee in response to the subpena, by the Postal Tele-
graph Co. ?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct.
Miss Huffman. The markings would so indicate.
Mr. Starnes. That will be a part of the record.
(The telegram referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit No. 1,
May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Matthews. Now, Miss Huffman, have you investigated the
records of the iiidividuals to whom that telegram was sent, with
respect to their affiliations with front organizations of the Commu-
nist Party?
Miss Huffman. I have. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, these cards indicate the original
material which is in the files of the committee, showing the connec-
tions of the individuals to whom this telegram was addressed, and I
suggest that instead of taking the hours that would be necessary to
go over all of this material, that the tabulation be made at this point
a j)art of the record, or do 3'ou have some other procedure in mind?
3458 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Will that show the record of organizations, some of
which undoubtedly are Communist-front organizations and so found
by this committee, to which these people belong? That is the im-
portant part of it.
Mr. Matthews. That is correct, Mr, Chairman.
Mr. StarneiS. You might read the record of one or two of the
parties so the committee will have an idea of the general tenor of the
organizations they belong to and their connections, and the others
can then be inserted in the record along with the names of the people
to whom the telegrams were sent.
Mr. Matthews. George Marshall was a member of the executive
board of the American League for Peace and Democracy. He is a
member of the executive committee of the National Federation for
Constitutional Liberties, whose literature has just been introduced
into evidence. He is a member of the National Council of the
American Peace Mobilization. He was a sponsor of a meeting of
the Friends of the Soviet Union at Mecca Temple on March 22,
3938. He is a sponsor of the Conference on Pan-American De-
mocracy. He is a writer for the magazine Soviet Russia Today,
the magazine of the Friends of the Soviet Union. He is on the
editorial council of the magazine Soviet Russia Today. He is a
member of the National Committee for People's Rights; a sponsor
of the North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy; a
signer of an open letter in the New Masses — in the Soviet Russia
Today magazine, calling for closer cooperation between the United
States and the Soviet LTnion.
He is the signer of a letter in Soviet Russia Today, defending the
Moscow purge trials. He is a member of the executive committee
of the Progressive Committee to Rebuild the American Labor Party,
the organization of which Morris Watson is head, as was testified
by one of the witnesses yesterday.
He is a sponsor of the United American Spanish Aid Committee;
a member of the American Committee for Democracy and Intel-
lectual Freedom; the signer of a telegram to the President of the
United States on March 5, 1941, defending the Communist Party.
Mr. Starnes. Now, he is one of the great peace advocates who are
responsible for the program of the American Peace Mobilization, and
this is an appeal to him for funds to maintain the vigil around
the Wliite House now being kept by the American Peace Mobiliza-
tion; is that right?
Miss Huffman. No ; Congressman Starnes. That is correct in es-
sence but at any of the meetings that I have attended that Morris
Watkins has spoken at, I have not heard Morris Watson advocate
peace.
Mr. Starnes. I am not talking about Morris Watson, I am talking
about George Marshall.
Miss Huffman. Oh, yes; that is correct.
Mr. Matfhews. Here is Anna Rochester, another of the persons
to whom the telegi'am was addressed. She is a contributing editor
of the New Masses; a frequent writer for the New Masses.
She is a member of the League of American Writers and a sponsor
of the Mother Bloor Banquet; publisher of numerous volumes pub-
lished by the International Publishers. She is author of numerous
pamphlets published by the Workers' Library, both of which pub-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8459
lisliing concerns have been identified as Communist Party auxiliaries.
She is a Avriter for the Communist International; a member of
the Comnumist Party and so designated in the Daily Worker of
May 17, 1940.
She is a writer for the Daily Worker, a writer for the official
publication of the Communist Party, the monthly magazine, The
Comnumist; a signer of the statement defending the purge trials in
Moscow.
She is a member of the League of American Writers and a mem-
ber of the campaign committee for election of Browder and Ford.
Mr. St.vrnes, Now, I renew my question: This lady and George
Marshall are two of the parties to whom the peace vigil maintained
around the White House, at the present time so-called by the Ameri-
can Peace Mobilization, addressed a telegram appealing for funds
to maintain the vigil?
Miss Huffman. Yes; Congressman Starnes.
Mr. Matthews. Those are two of the eight.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have other telegrams witli reference to an
appeal for aid for funds or other support, Dr. Matthews, for the
peace vigil?
Mr. Matthews. On the same date Marian Briggs sent the follow-
ing telegram to Herman Shumlin at 229 West Forty-second Street,
New York. The telegram reads:
Peace vigQ still going, approaching three hundred and sixty-eighth hour,
still going strong. Urgent need for money to keep vigil going. Costs $100 a
day. Please send air-mail special any funds available, care A. P. M.
And that telegram is signed, "Marian Briggs."
Mr. Starnes. Who is Herman Shumlin?
Mr, ^Matthews. Will you please give a resume of what you know
about Herman Shumlin?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. I have known Herman Shumlin per-
.sonally since late in 1929. Herman Shumlin was the Broadwa}' pro-
ducer of the play Grand Hotel. That was his outstanding success —
one of his first outstanding successes, and then a series of Broadway
productions. He has been the producer of a major number of the
plays put out by Lillian Hellman.
Herman Shumlin is an endorser of the drive to bring veterans
back to America — the Friends of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade vet-
erans. He is chairman of the United American Spanish Aid Com-
mittee; a sponsor of the send-off dinner for the ambulance corps of
the American Artists and Writers Committee; their division was
the Medical Bureau, American Friends of the Spanish Democracy
(jf I he American Artists and Writers Committee.
Herman Shumlin is a signer of an open letter for closer coo})er.i-
tion with the Soviet Union which appeared in Soviet Russia Today
in September 1939.
He is a membei- of the theater arts committee, medical bureau of
the North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy; and in-
cidentally was particularly active Avith the theater arts connnittee.
He was a signer of the statement to the President defending the
Communist Party. It appeared in the Dailv Worker of March 5,
1941.
He is a signer of an appeal on behalf of Communist Darcy for the
National Federation of Constitutional Liberties.
8460 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. That is Sam Darcy, of California ?
Miss Huffman. Yes. Executive committee member of the China
Aid Council. His name appears in a pamphlet Relighting the
Lamps of China; chairman of the North American Spanish Aid
Committee.
He is a sponsor for the conference on constitutional liberties in
America; a member of the executive committee of the Progressive
Committee to Rebuild the American Labor Party.
He is a member of the executive board of the theater arts committee ;
a member of the executive board of the American League for Peace
and Democracy, of the national office ; a signer of the petition to dis-
continue the Dies committee, American Committee for Democracy and
Intellectual Freedom.
He is a sponsor of the refugee scholarship and peace campaign.
That is not a complete list.
Mr. Starnes. I would like to ask you this question, and it is ad-
dressed to either Miss Huffman or Dr. Matthews :
In checking the case records of the parties to whom this telegram
appealing for funds was directed, did you find that each and every
one of those parties are known members of the Communist Party or
have been affiliated at some time or another with, Communist organi-
zations ?
Mr. Matthews. There is only one exception, Congressman Starnes,
to an affirmative answer to your question, and that exception is Mrs.
Ellen Brandstetter, of Chicago, about whom — at least the committee
at this time does not have information wliich would indicate that she
has been a fellow traveler.
Mr. Starnes. But we do have documentary evidence implemented
by sworn testimony before this committee to the effect that each and
every one of the others have been members of the Communist Party
or have been members of Communist-front oi-ganizations?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, Congressman Starnes ; each one of these cards
refers to an original document in the files of the committee.
Mr. Starnes. And with that sole exception, the appeal for funds
to maintain the peace vigil around the White House was addressed to
these Communists or to Communist-front members?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. Congressman Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. Now that was addressed on l)ehalf of the American
Peace Mobilization, of course?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; at this point may I have a photograph in-
troduced into the record? It is one of the many photographs in the
possession of the committee of the peace vigil in front of the White
House.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph of the peace vigil in
front of the white House. Miss Huffman, and ask you if you can
identify a gentleman in the middle of the front line of marchers?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; the gentleman in the middle is Morris
Watson, and on his right is Sarah V. Montgomery and on his left is
Joseph Cadden, of the American Youth Congress.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received in evidence.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibit No.
2, May 22, 1941.")
UN-AMKKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8461'
Mr. Matthkws. Mr. Chairman, IVIiss Huffman has testimony that
has to do with the same question about which Miss Spargo has testi-
fied; namely, the work of the American Peace Mobilization among
the draftees or with respect to the draftees.
JNIr. Starnes. The chair is of the opinion that testimony of that
type and nature is of such vital importance to the welfai-e of the
country at the present time, uidess there is objection from the other
members of the committee, we should hear what Miss Huffman has
to say about that matter.
Mr. Matthews. Will you proceed with your statement, Miss Huff-
man ?
]VIiss Huffman. As a result of an investigation I found that the
aims of these groups can be divided into four particular parts. One
of them is to recruit converts to left-wing programs in radical organi-
zations; second, to engender hatred or at least definite distrust of
the United States and its officials, both military and nonmilitary;
third, to instill fear; and, fourth, to cause unrest and chaos.
I found in checking that all of the front organizations of the Amer-
ican Peace Mobilization that are listed by the American Peace Mobili-
zation as their sponsors, are also engaging in this program wdiich is
being advanced by the American Peace Mobilization. They have a
set plan of campaign which I will go into later.
Of these groups I found that the most active, other than the Ameri-
can Peace Mobilization as a central organization, is the American
Youth Congress, the American Negro Congress, and the International
Workers" Order. Possibly I should have mentioned the International
Workers' Order first but it was very difficult to tell just which group
Avas the most active. It would depend upon the size of its member-
ship to tell wliich was carrying on the most active campaign.
Mr. Matthews. You mean the National Negro Congress?
Miss Huffman. The National Negro Congress; yes, sir.
The locals of the C. I. O. and A. F. of L., that participated in the
American Peace Mobilization are also, we find, carrying out this same
program.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, just a minute. Do you mean that locals partic-
ipated or do you mean that persons came to the meeting and said
they were members of such and such a local, but came on their own
hook ?
Miss Huffman. Congressman Voorhis, in talking to men from the
United Electrical. Radio and Machine Workers of America, in talk-
ing to some of the delegates from that local, I found that their
local had voted them in as delegates. I am referring to as far as the
program is concerned.
Mr. VooRHis. Which local is that? Can you give us the name of
the local?
Mr. Starnes. It is in the record.
Miss Huffman. The numbers of the eight locals that are in the
record from the testimony yesterday, that voted delegates to the
American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Voorhis. And it wasn't a case of where a single individual
stated he represented a local?
Mr. Matthews. I can give you the numbers if you want them.
8462 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRiiis. I don't care so much about that. I want to be sure
the record is specific about whether or not the locals were claimed
to be represented by a single member or whether it was action taken
by the local itself.
Mr. Matthews. This is the official program of the American Peace
Mobilization, signed by the Electrical — United Electrical, Radio and
Machine Workers Union of America, Local 36, and also Local 1225,
Mr. VooRHis. Wliat Miss Huffman was talking about was the locals
that are listed there?
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. As having been on that list?
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. And presumably if there is any mistake about it we
will hear about that. But I mean their official statement is to the
effect that these locals by their own action went on record about this
matter, is that right?
Miss Huffman. That is correct.
Mr. VooRHis. I think it is important to be sure that some indi-
viduals don't attempt to commit organizations against the will of
the organization. That is what I have in mind.
Miss Huffman. No; Congressman Voorhis. In this particular in-
vestigation concerning the activities of un-American groups and how
they affect the United States Army, I took that into special con-
sideration, that some individual was not representing himself as
representing the group. In fact, I spent several weeks trying to
get a line of demarcation between who the people were who were
individual members or even officers of an organization, but without
the authorized authority to represent that organization.
When I mention the "locals" I am talking of locals who designated
official delegates and where that local itself affiliated itself with the
American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Voorhis. Are you in a position to answer as to whether in the
case of this electrical workers union that you mentioned, you do not
mean the InteiTiational Brotherhood of Electrical Workers?
Miss Huffman. No, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. But the C. I. O. affiliate. Can you answer wdiether
in the case of one or two of those locals, at least, whether the locals
merely voted power to their executive board to decide the question
and then the executive board voted to affiliate with the American
Peace Mobilization — do you know whether that was the case?
Miss Huffman. Jack Marshall, of Local 1225, I believe, told me
that it was a membei'ship — a local membership meeting that had voted
him as a delegate and had voted Mr. Fahy, and that they were cover-
ing the expenses of the 30 delegates and that they had to go back
and make a report to the local because the local itself was going
to follow out the program.
As a matter of fact, he asked me to cover part of the labor con-
ference for him and part of the meeting on the floor because he would
be unable to be present so he could take a report back to his local.
It was one means I used of obtaining entrance on the delegates floor.
Mr. Starnes. Proceed with your statement.
Miss Huffman. We also find among these groups officers of the
Y. M. C. A., Y. M. H. A., Y. W. C. A., and Y. W. H. A. I will
mention those names later as I come to them in the group.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8463
School leadei-s and repi'esentatives of church groups or individuals
from church groups.
Their method of contact is to divide their approach into a direct
and indirect approach. The direct method of contact comes through
the fact that there are members of these organizations being inducted
into the Army under the conscription act.
According to reports, Woodie Guthrie, known as "Woodie," is a
conscriptee and is now at Camp Dix.
Now, Woodie Guthrie, a Communist, is a guitar-playing, ballad-
singing entertainer, brought to! New York by Will Greer, also a
Conununist, and incidentally the grandson-in-law of Ella May Bloor,
known as "Mother Bloor," Pennsylvania State secretary of the Com-
munist Party.
Woodie Guthrie was brought by Will Greer from Oklahoma and
advertised as one of the "Joads,'- or migratory workers.
During the past 3 or 4 years Woodie Guthrie has become one of
the outstanding entertainers in the Communist Party. Communist
Party fronts, and other left-wing organization meetings.
Now, at a recent American Peace Mobilization meeting, in fact
I might say that at the upper Manhattan meeting, the midtown
meeting, one of the large Harlem meetings, a meeting in Queens,
and a meeting in Brooklyn, people in the audience, before the meet-
ing had started, did a great deal of rejoicing over the amount of
good that Woodie Guthrie could do now that he was in the camp.
He is an entertainer of the droll, homespun variety that tells tales
and plays his guitar. And I have heard him on numerous occasions
and it is always with this definite Communist Party tinge, and in his
singing and in his talk he has never tried to attempt to conceal the
fact that he was the columnist for the Daily Worker or that he was
a member of the Communist Party and represented it as such.
Besides mentioning that one particularly, for the boys who are at-
tending the Peace — who are attending these American Peace meet-
ings and have their registration cards or have just been called for
their examination, there is always a great deal of, I would say, al-
most joy over the fact that they are going to get in — not that the
boys particularly want to go but they are going to get "work done
there in the camp."
The second method of contact is through the families of the boys.
Now, in the American Peace Volunteer publication for May 17, 1941,
on page 2 — may I correct that, please, on page 4 we find an item
that : "Staten Island visits families of conscriptees last week. The
members of the American Peace Mobilization Council on Staten
Island visited the families of 30 draftees. During the course of these
visits more than 20 bought A. P. M. literature and promised to come
to council meetings."
Now, the fact is that contacting the families of the conscriptees
has been discussed not so frequently from the platform at public
American Peace Mobilization meetings as it has been discussed by
the ])eople who were later the speakers and discussed before the
meetings started.
The next form of contact is through club and recreational facilities
set up by these groups in areas surrounding the camps.
62626 — 41— vol. 14 20
3464 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
We have again a copy of the A. P. M. memo which covered the
draft in military camp conferences, in which Emerson Daggett,
the representative of the San Francisco Industrial Union Council,
told of plans to start a recreation center for the boys in the Cali-
fornia camps. He proposed that local A. P. M. groups, together
with the trade-union and youth groups, establish such centers where
conscripts can find educational and recreational activities "which are
sorely lacking in the camps."
Also at this conference one woman from South Carolina and an-
other womain from North Carolina, a woman who stated that she had
lived within a few miles of Camp Meade, told of the action that had
already gone forward — that it was set up, that it wasn't something
that was just proposed, and inasmuch as the individual from near
Camp Meade, inasmuch as thev had not raised enough funds to
hire a hall or a big meeting place where they could hold dances,
three different people, and she designated at the time they were all
from the International Workers' Order, were using their homes to
entertain the boys and put literature there for the boys to read in
their homes.
The next method of contact is through the so-called conscription
committees or People's Rights Committees.
I wish I could leave that there and then go back to those committees
because their entire progiam is an important phase, one of which is
corresponding with the boys in camps and visiting the boys in camps.
The next method of contact is through literature sent directly to
the boys or sent by the families of the boys. And then the next item,
activities in areas surrounding the camps.
Now, at the cultural division meeting that was held at the fraternal
clubhouse — that is the cultural division of the A. P. M., which Lloyd
Gough was the chairman of, they played a series of records, some of
which wei'e introduced in testimony yesterday, and another record
that tells of the colored soldier boy from the World War that came
back and was finally hanged down South in his uniform, and it is a
particidarly gruesome song, a very disheartening one, I would say,
at least as far as the boys were concerned; and they had stacked that
day on the platform what they said were 2,000 of those recordings
that were being put in the restaurants and recreational points in the
areas surrounding the camps, and they were all addressed. I went
up to look at them before I was stopped by someone who knew me
from the Federal Theater Project, and found that the top group
were being sent to restaurants in and around Trenton, N. J., which
is not far from Camp Dix.
Then, of course, the indirect method of contact is through the gen-
eral entertainment. I am not going into the entertainment method
of contact; but on these committees that are set u]3 the various names
are being used. To date there are the Conscript's Welfare Com-
mittee, People's Rights Committee, Conscriptee Committees, Draft
Aid Committees.
At one A. P. M. meeting that I attended Miss Kneiper and Dr.
Annette Rubinstein brought out the fact that the branches of these
committees should be given comnumity or folksy sounding names like
"Committee for Aid to Our Sons In Camp," or "Washington Heights
Committee To Assist The Boys In Camps."
UN-AMERICAN PUorAClANDA ACTIVITIES §4(35
Mr. Staknes. Ill other woi-ds, jjet it[) iiiiines, caiiiouflagiiig- names;
is that tlie idea i
Miss Huffman. Yes. The program of the committee — of these
committees, which is currently called "the eight-point program of
the American Peace JSIobilization, the seven-jpoint program, the
three-point," was adopted at the American Peace Mobilization meet-
ing. Shall I read the eight points of that program? I believe it
is pertinent, Congressman Starnes.
Mr. Staknes. All right.
Miss Huffman, (reading) :
Guard ag;aisnt discriminatory conscription aimed at labor, peace, and pro-
gressive organizations.
Fight increases in prices and rent, and general wartime profiteering.
Protect rights of conscripts to vote, campaign on political issues, participate
in trade unions, receive luicensored mail.
Fight Jim Crowism in conscripted and liegular armed forces, protest segre-
gation of Negroes in separate regiments, discriminatory assignments to menial
tasks, and st» forth.
See that conscripts have adequate housing, health protection and furlough
rights 1 week every .3 months.
Prevent evictions, foreclosures on installment buying, and so forth.
Work to guarantee unconditional reemployment of conscripts, not dependent,
as now, on prevailing conditions.
Campaign for increase in conscript pay to $40 a month, continuation of
social-security rights, adequate compensation for disability, injury, or death.
The seven-point program varies only slightly from the eight-point
program. In fact, the one point that is missing being actually incor-
porated in the seven-point program though a slight difference in
wording.
The three-point program AYliich incidentally appeared in the Daily
Worker, is really a method of operation, I w^ould call it, although
they refer to it as "the three-point action program."
Draftees will be given advice in answering questionnaires from draft boards
and will get legal service in preparing appeals from board decisions
Draftees will be helped to save their property from loan sharks while in the
Army. Families of draftees will be given help and eviction cases will be fought.
Tlie committee will maintain contact with the draftees and will maintain
their union consciousness by correspondence and union literature.
Now the organization of these committees which have already been
set up and have been approved by the National Negro Congress and
the National Negro Youth Congress, and have these points in their
pi-ogram :
Organized correspondence with draftees from their respective organizations.
Organize large delegations of parents, trade-union brothers, church members
and so forth to visit the nearl)y camps to investigate conditions.
Organize delegations to make demands upon the camp commanders and the
State defense boards for immediate redesss of all grievances uncovered.
Give wide publicity to all action taken to further the welfare of the con-
.scripts through ihe press and mass meetings.
In talking with the various people and in checking the literature
we find that these groups wnll not act as representatives of these
committees or the connnittees that we have given you a feW' of
the names, but that the plan is to a[)pear as spontaneous individual
complaints made by relatives or friends in the interests of their
loved ones.
8466 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. In other words, an organized campaign to make
it appear that protests are spontaneous affairs; as if the complaints
were based on facts rather than just a campaign of propaganda.
Miss Huffman. It is exactly similar to the situation in the Fed-
eral theater project. It is the same type and pattern — turmoil,
creating distrust, agitation — nobody knows who is who by the time
they get through.
We find that line of attack is as follows : The help the boys — the
unsanitary camp conditions — vermin-infested quarters — quarters are
too hot — they are too cold — too wet and they are too dry. There is
bad food. There is insufficient food. There is improper housing.
There is lack of sanitary facilities. There is poor medical attention.
Fascist-minded officers.
In fact, in literature already put out along this line General
Marshall has been referred to a number of times — I have some of
it here — as "a Fascist-minded individual in charge of the Army."
Abuse of men by officers, particularly Negroes; I think we have four
cases on that.
Mr. Stabnes. You will insert those at their proper place in your
testimony and they will be either incorporated in the record or
attached as exhibits.
Miss Huffman. Yes. I have one item that appears in the publi-
cation called Cavalcade of the National Negro Congress. In it
is stated: "Brutal treatment of Negro conscripts in the camps at
the hands of prejudiced white officers;" and Jim Crowism in the
camps. I feel that that should have been possibly a little higher
on the list because it is one of the things that they are using which
causes a great deal of turmoil.
The inadequate pay, longer furloughs, the distance the boys are
from home ; the conditions at home and the condition of the family ;
the fear stories of the horrors of war; the fact that this is a cap-
italist war. In fact, the slogan I quote: "Refuse to Die for Wall
Street" has already been adopted by some of these groups that
have been set up.
The one group that has been set up in upper Manhattan have
adopted that as their slogan: "Refuse to Die for Wall Street." An-
other point they are using in their campaign is censorship of mail —
the treatment of the draftees, and their treatment after the war —
the fact that the soldiers had no jobs, and so forth, and so forth, and
so forth; the possible extension of the 1-year limit.
Another point that they are using is the fact that this Govern-
ment wants war and the Soviet wants peace. And then the possibility
of death on a foreign shore.
The entire line of attack is being directed toward installing a
self-pity that can be turned to militant action, hatred, and fear.
Besides the amount of material that we found in the publications
that were put out by the American Peace Mobilization or groups
whose material was distributed at the American Peace Mobilization,
one of which is this regarding the censorship of mail, which has at
the top of it a drawing of a letter starting : "Dear Mom." And you
can't see the rest of the letter for the censor stamp across it, and then
underneath it is a memorandum signed by Lt. Col. John H. Ahrens,
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8467
Adjutant General, Fortv-fourth Division, Fort Dix, which appeared
in the World Tele<2:ram, November 4, 1940, and reads as follows:
It is the desire of the commanding general that enlisted men be encouraged
to write home and that, so far as is reasonable, they be influenced to present
a favorable imiu-essiou of conditions in their \inits.
Followino- that are the words "Is this peacetime censorship a fore-
runner of wartime gag rule?"
Then it says:
Questions on the conscription law will be discussed at the community forum.
Now, that meeting was sponsored by the Upper Manhattan Peace
Council of the American People's Mobilization.
Besides that literature we checked a number of the publications
that are put out by the camps, and found that there are items which
appear, items that — possibly the same and in some instances the same
items appear in more than one issue which would follow that par-
ticular line of campaign.
Now, we took great care and caution in analyzing that, A boy
Avho is writing home because he is homesick may really be genuinely
homesick, so we tried not to split hairs but only take those instances
of material there would appear to be a definite question of why that
material would appear in a camp paper.
For instance, following the line of attack there were other items
as they would affect the camps that appeared in the papers that would
have nothing to do with the activities of that campaign. For in-
stance, this appears in the Fort Dix Gazette of May 7, 1941. Under
one of the columns it states :
J. Philips Waring, E's Gazette correspondent, is a 1940 A. B. from the West
Virginia State College. He was successful in achieving wonderful success in
the organization work with the youth section of the N. A. A. C. P., and the Southern
Youth Congress. He was elected to the Who's Who in Negro American colleges.
Phil's experience of several years in recreation and community leader has
met the same results under his hand since coming into the Army. He has
successfully organized the B. O. Davis Service Forum.
I mention that because in the publications of the Southern Negro
Congress and the Southern Youtli Congi^ess we find this seven-point
plan, this eight-point plan, and this three-point plan mentioned, and
here we have one of their organizers setting up what is known as a
B. O. Davis Service Forum at Fort Dix.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please identify "B. O. Davis" — you know
who he is ?
Miss Huffman. I do not. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Starxes. Can you ?
Mr. Matthews. Editor of the Daily Worker.
Mr. Starnes. He is editor of the Daily Worker?
Mr. Matthews. One of the editors of the Daily Worker.
Miss Huffman. Another point that they are stressing in their fear
campaign is the number of noncitizens that are in the American Army,
and we find in these publications of the camps several references — in
fact, in this particular edition there is reference to one boy who is not
a citizen, who was a member of the Hitler youth movement.
In this publication, which is also from Fort Dix, we have three items
on conditions in the camp pertaining to health.
8468 UN-AMERICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRHis. You say this man is a nieiiiber of the Hitler youth
movement ?
Miss Huffman. This one boy is referred to as having been a member
of the Hitler youth movement.
Then ill 1934 was inducted into the Hitler youth movement. It was
compulsory to join at that time. If you did not join, you were looked
upon as a slacker and shunned by your friends.
Saturday was designated as the meeting day — supposed to be a
fresh-air movement, hikes — and it goes on about the military aspects
of the Hitler youth movement.
This publication, as I said, carried an item regardhig the sanitary
conditions of the camp — the fact tliat the camp was too hot and the
health and food were all dwelt on in this publication.
This publication, also from Fort Dix, has a repeat on a letter which
appears in another publication regarding the conditions at home, bear-
ing out that point. That had appeared in two of those. And in this
publication there was a poem that I had first seen at an American
Peace Mobilization meeting. There were two poems, one bringing
out the point of a capitalist war and the letter, incidentally, regarding
1-ome conditions is reproduced in this magazine from the Boston area.
Mr. Starnes. In checking the testimony. Dr. Matthews, you wnll
have to have the witness identiTy the various documents to which she
has referred, because they have not been properly identified in the
record. She refers to "this publication" or that publication. Let
them be properly identified and munbered and attached as exhibits to
her testimony.
Miss Huffman, in the course of your investigations of the efforts
of the American Peace Mobilization and other organizations to create
a feeling of unrest and disaffection among the armed forces of the
United States, did you find them attempting to use theaters — 1 mean
using places or services or organizations of tliat type and character?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Did you find that to be true ?
Miss Huffman. We found that the entertainment in the camps
was being carried on in a variety of ways, both by individual enter-
tainers from outside the camp, entertainers from the personnel of the
camp with civilian directors — civilian directors coming in to direct
the boys in their plays, and we had one instance of a man who had —
I have the material here regarding this man — in fact, this entire
package is with reference to him, from a group that has been left
wing over a long period of time. He is director in the Trenton area
of the Theater League. He has gone into Camp Dix directing a
number of the plays there. That is Max Glandvard. An article
which appeared in the Theater magazine by him, also appeared in
the Daily Worker and is entitled "The Progressive Theater in War-
time." It pertained to the civilian activities in the camp.
,, Mr. Starnes. Then you have found in the course of your investi-
gations a definite attempt on the part of the American Peace Mobili-
zation and of the Communist Party to attempt to influence the type
of entertainment being given by civilian agencies in the camps?
Miss Huffman. I would say very definitely, Congressman Starnes.
We have one instance here at Fort Bragg where a play was written
by one of the privates at the camp and directed by him and put on
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8469
in the oainp. That script — I don't see it here in this p:ickno;e but I
liave that script and that script is defiuitely left-winj^ propaganda.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any evidence at all to the effect that
there has been any attempt to bring pressure upon or to get into the
organizations that are headed by Mr. Chai'les Taft ?
Miss Hi'FFMAx. The Joint Army and Navy Committee on Recrea-
tion and Welfare ?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Miss Huffman. Yes. Numerous attempts have been made and
prior to the setting up of that committee Paul (Ireen, Barrett H.
Clark, and Charles Leacham made a number of trips to Washington
here to obtain the contracts. Paul Green has been a left-wing writer
and is now head of the National Theater Conference, a group of
community theaters, but we have a complete history on him and his
left-wing activities in the organizations he belongs to.
Mr. Vcx)RHis. I would like to ask a question: Do you think left
wing is synonymous with communism?
]\Iiss Huffman. Yes; I do.
Mr. VooRHis. You do?
Miss Huffman. Oh, yes.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to say that I don't.
Miss Huffman. I am using it as synonymous with communism
merely because I was keeping away from Communist Party mem-
bership, but when I say "left wing" I mean individuals who couldn't
possibly be so stupid that they wouldn't know they were following
the Communist Party line.
Mr. VooRHis. That is a different matter.
Miss Huffman. I am not talking about genuinely sincere liberals.
Mr. Starnes. Who are too stupid to know they are being used by
the Connnunists.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to ask one more question.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Voorhis. The important thing would be whether any of these
people had been successful in getting into Mr. Taft's organization.
Of course, they are going to try to influence it, but have they been
successful in doing so?
Miss Huffman. Well, Robert Sherwood was the president of the
Playwrights Co. in New York City. I don't feel that the Playrights
Co. could be designated, which was a producing organization, as a
left-wing organization, using my definition of left wing, but at the
same time very prominent in the Playwrights Co. in New Yorii,
along with Robert Sherwood, was Elmer Rice, about whose radical-
ism there can be little question, and Maxwell Anderson. A history
of Maxwell Anderson is here.
Mr. VooRHis. What does that have to do with Mr. Taft's com-
mittee?
Miss Huffman. Robert Sherwood is the chairman of the subcom-
mittee on entertainment of Mr. Taft's committee, and I feel, I really
feel, that a great deal more ■
Mr. Starnes. Dr. ]\Iatthews, is there any case record of any of
these parties here that Miss Huffman is referring to in her testimony,
which indicates that they are members of an}' Comnnmist organi-
zations?
g4!70 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. If she meant to say before she finished her sen-
tence that Maxwell Anderson was included in that group — did you
mean to say that?
Miss Huffman. I said Maxwell Anderson was associated with
Eobert Sherwood in the new Playwrights Theater.
Mr, Matthews. There is a case record on Elmer Rice.
Mr. Starnes. Will you have that inserted in the record in con-
nection with Miss Huffman's testimony, the case record showing
the groups with whom Robert Sherwood has been identified or affil-
iated with as a member?
Miss Huffman. And he was also a speaker on various occasions
with Representative Vito Marcantonio before groups — this is some
years back, classified as left-wing organizations. I haven't the his-
tory of those organizations here.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you mean groups that have been classified as
left-wing organizations? You mean they are progressive organi-
zations ?
Mr. Mason. Or Communist organizations.
Mr. VooRHis. Communist orgaiiizations.
Miss Huffman. I will avoid the use of the words "left wing."
I meant Communist-front organizations, organizations we have listed
as being affiliated with and active with the American Peace Mobili-
zation.
I will carefully avoid the use of the words "left wing."
Mr. Starnes. Be very careful about that.
Mr. VooRHis. I don't mind that. All I want to do is make my
own position plain.
Mr. Starnes. Be very careful, because in the use of the words
"left wing," it has such a wide variety of meanings, and it affects
so many different people and in so many different ways. If you
can find a better phrase, I prefer you use it.
Miss Huffman. Then, a subcommittee has been set up, the Citizens'
Committee for the Army and Navy — that is a committee of the sub-
committee of the joint committee.
Thomas J. Watson is chairman of that committee. The com-
mittee consists of Edward Arnold, John Benson, Irving Berlin, Gene
Buck, George M. Cohan, Bette Davis, Y. Frank Freedman, Helen
Hayes, Emily Holt — while Helen Hayes is one of our leading
actresses, she was head of the milk fund for the North American-
Spanish Committee, and was very active with the Theater Arts
Committee.
Mr. Starnes. Miss Huffman, does that cover the story?
Miss Huffman. Well, the activities on the camps, and then, too,
we have some information to the effect that three different groups —
we have specific evidence, testimony — I haven't gone beyond that —
they are having classes in writing particular skits and scripts for
the camps, to be put on, and these particular groups are groups
that are connected with front organizations.
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, if you will produce these documents
and identify some of them for the record we will appreciate it.
Mr. Voorhis. I don't know just where we left Mr. Taft on this
proposition.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8471
Mr. Starnes. I nuM-ely nsked Miss Huffman if sho found any evi-
dence of the fact that the American Peace Mobilization or the Coni-
nnmist Pai-ty had made an attempt to obtain a position in that
orfranizationi or if they had attempted to get the type of phxys suit-
able for propaganda " purposes used by that group. Nobody is
attacking Mr. Taft and nobody is attacking anything. It was a
question of Avhether or not they found sucli attempt had been made
and she said there had been such an attempt.
Miss HuFFiMAN. There have been a series of attempts. As a matter
of fact, Paul Green did put on some plays down in some of these
southern camps and there have been a series of attempts by a number
of people with material being provided the committee, some of which
was successful, some of which was not successful in putting enter-
tainers into the camps.
The committee set up with Mr. Taft in charge of it to correlate
this activity should be one means of correcting it instead of putting
the responsibility on busy camp commanders to have to figure out the
subtleties and the fitness of some of these plays that are going in,
and someone who really is informed on it should be in charge of it.
Mr. Starnes. You have not heard anybody say that Mr. Taft was
a Communist or a bad man or anything like that at all?
Miss Huffman. No; I have not.
Mr. Starnes. Nobody said that at all, nobody intimated that to
you at any time, have they ?
Miss Huffman. No; they have not. But that is as far as we
have gone into the program concerning the camp activities — to
agitate them through their families by direct contact and the usual
"boy meets girl" technique, and the activities surrounding the camps.
I find that with the American Peace Mobilization at the present
time they are concerning themselves — in talks I have had with
various people who belong to the International Workers Order and
other groups, that they are very much concerning themselves with
the possibilities of carrying on the activities in the areas, such as
Trenton and various others closely surrounding the camps, because
of the lack of entertainment facilities and their difficulty in getting
it in the camps. They are still preparing their material to go into
the camps under this other committee. There is never a day they are
not trying to get in.
Mr. Starnes. I want this testimony for the record because I hap-
pen to know the Army is very much interested in studying and check-
ing upon the same subject matter.
Now Dr. Matthews, I would like to have introduced in the record
at this point the names of the national officers and the executive
council or by whatever name their governing body or advisory body
is called, of the American Peace Mobilization. And while it may
be too length}' to give verbal testimony concerning it, I wish you
would attach or insert after the names of each one in the record,
whether or not there is any Communist Party affiliation or any mem-
bership in any Communist front organization.
Mr. Matthews. I have several lists that I would like to have
placed in the record in compliance with your request.
Mr. Starnes. I would like to have the parent one first, if I may.
I think you mentioned a sort of chart or graph yesterday.
8472 UN-AMERICAN PRO! '.UGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. That is the list of the officers of the American
Peace Mobilization from the Daily Worker of September 3, 1940.
These are the permanent officers elected to date to lead the American
Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. And that was obtained from the Daily Worker?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir; this was the first published list after
the Chicago conference. There have been subsequent lists with ad-
ditions.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not, Doctor, that is the
first list that was published in any newspaper?
Mr. Matthews. I could not say, Congressman.
Mr. Starnes. But it was the first list that has been brought to
your attention — the first you have any record of?
Mr. Matthews. The first we were able to obtain ; yes.
Miss Huffman, you are familiar with this docmnent?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please describe it for the record?
Miss Huffman. This is a document of the American Peace Mobili-
zation that was sold at the time of the American People's Meeting
at the Mecca Temple, entitled "The Story of A. P. M." The pic-
tures and a thumbnail sketch of the historj^ of these officers — Rev.
Jolm B. Thompson
Mr. Starnes. Bv the way, who is this John B. Thompson, Dr.
Matthews ?
Miss Huffman. He is dean of the Presbyterian Foundation of
the University of Oklahoma and pastor of the First Presbyterian
Church in Noi-man, near Oklahoma City.
Mr. Matthews. He is also chairman of the Southern Conference
for Human Welfare, according to the original documents in the com-
mittee's files.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
IMiss Huffman. Reid Robinson, who is a vice cliairman; Dr. Max
Yergan, a vice chairman; Hon. Vito Marcantonio, a vice cliairman;
Captain Terrell, a vice chairman ; Theodore Dreiser, a vice chairman ;
Jack McMichael, a vice cliairman; Frederick V. Field, executive secre-
tary; Morris Watson, laboi- representative, and he has since been made
the provisional secretaiy of the National Labor Committee Against
War; Marian Briggs, administrative secretary.
Mr. Starnes. That is the same Marian Briggs, I assume, who sent
this telegram?
Miss Huffman. Yes.
Mr, Matthews. This program also contains a list of the sponsors
of the American Peace Mobilization ; does it not ?
Miss Huffman. It contains a list that is designated as sponsors.
It is a partial list of the committee list of sponsors and the program
of the meetings. Then it includes for the New York Citv Council :
Aline Davis Hays, C. H. Van Tyne, Walter Scott Neff, and Oscar
Schneller, and a description of the activities. Then the songs of the
American Peace Mobilizati(m: "Billv Boy," and "Franklin, Oh
Franklin," and "The Farmer is the Man That Feeds Them All." and
"Jim Crow," and "Get Out and Stav Out of War," and "Ballad of
October 16," "The Strange Death of" John Doe," and "Plow Under."
That is the one that ends "Plow Under Every Fourth American Bov."
UN-AMFJIICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8473
Mr. Starnes. Tliat particular publication contains the purported
list of national officials and sponsors of the American Peace Mobili-
zation at that time?
Miss Huffman. Yes. Con<rressman Starnes, and in addition a list
of the sponsoring- organizations. The list is headed by the American
Student Union and American Youth Congress, Armour Local Pack-
ing House Workers, C. I. O., Blount County, Ala., Farmers Union.
Mr. ]N[.v'rTiii:ws. Now I show you a letterhead of the Washington
Peace Mobilization which contains the names of the Washington
officers and committee members.
Miss Huffman. The president is Hudson Wells, the vice president
is Myrtle Powell, Rev. A. Joseph Edwards, Lucy Hancock, James
Harris
Mr. Starnes. Did you say Lucy Hancock ?
Miss Hutffman. Yes: James Harris, Louis Stedman, Costas
Alexiou, Dr. Alpheus Hunton, and Jack Zucker. The secretary-
treasurer is Sarah V. Montgomery, and the organizer is Mary Ricli-
ardson,
Mr. Starnes. Each of tliose documents will be incorporated in the
record.
Mr. Matphews, We have a suj)plementary list from the Daily
AYorker for January 14. 1941. contained in an article entitled "Six-
teen Top Union Leaders Back Peace Parley." This is a meeting of
the American Peace Mobilization to be held in Washington January
25 to 27, and the individuals named among the 16 are Reid Robinson,
president of the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers of America; Michael
J. Quill, president of the Transport Workers Union; George C.
Peacock, president of the National Association of Die Casters; Louis
Allen Berne, president of the Federation of Architects, Engineers,
Chemists, and Technicians; E. F. Burke, secretary. National Marine
Crooks and Stewards Association; Abram Flaxer, jjresident of the
State, County, and Municipal AVorkers of America; Ben Gold, presi-
dent. International Fur and Leather Workers Union; Donald Hender-
son, president. United Cannery, Agricultural, Packing, and Allied
Workers of America ; J. F. Jurich. president. International Union of
Fishermen and Allied AVorkers of America; Mat Meehan. secretary.
International Longshcn-emen's a'nd Warehousemen's Union; Lewis
Merrill, president. United Office and Professional Workers of Ameri-
ca; Frederick N. IVIyers. general organizer. National Maritime Union;
Grant AA". Oakes. chairman Farm E(juipment Organizing Committee;
O. M. Orton, president. International AA^ood Workers of America;
Joseph Selly, president of the American Communications Association ;
and Louis Weinstock. secretai'V. District 9 of the American Federa-
tion of Labor, Affiliated Brothei-hood of Painters, Decorators, and
Paperhangers of America.
I may point out that in the list of 16 only 1 of the union leaders
named is in the American Federation of Labor. The Daily AA^orker
seems to have taken special jiains to i)oint that out. The other 15 are
heads of C. I. O. unions, even if those unions are not so designated
here.
AA'^e have a list of ])ersons who were present or }>articipated in some
manner in the American Peo^^le's Meeting in New York.
8474 un-amp:rican propaganda activities
Miss Huffman, I will ask you if a petition to free Earl Browder
was circulated and signed at the American People's Meeting in New
York?
Miss Huffman. It was.
Mr. Matthews. And this issue of the Daily Worker for May 2, 1941,
has an article entitled "Signers of Petition to Free Browder." The
following is the list of 688 persons who signed the petition demanding
the freedom of Earl Browder, while attending the American Peace
Mobilization meeting, held here last April 6.
I ask that that be received in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The article referred to was marked "Matthews' Exhibit 1.")
Miss Huffman. Incidentally, Dr. Matthews, this list is the list
that was signed at the A. P. M. meeting. There was also a petition to
free Browder that was being signed at the Tallentire June Celebration.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Congressman, would you like to have any of
these national officers' records read as samples at this time or not?
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any that are of particular interest?
Mr. Matthews. They are rather bulky. These are on each of the
individuals, one set of cards for each individual.
Mr. Starnes, That deals, of course, with, their affiliations in Com-
munist front organizations?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Or with the Connimnist Party ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir; this is the record of Langston Hughes, a
member of the national council of the American Peace Mobilization.
Mr. Starnes. They seem to be quite bulky, so it will probably serve
the purpose by having them inserted in the record along with their
names.
Mr. Mati'hews. A number of these individuals are members of the
Communist Party of public record. Langston HugheS; for example,
has run for office on the Communist Party ticket.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have others that have public records of being
Communists ?
Mr. Matthews. Donald Henderson is a member of the Communist
Party of public record. His reports to the central committee of the
Communist Party are published in the press of the Communist Party
itself.
I have here a copy of Soviet Russia Today for August 1936, which
contains an interview by Ben Davis with Paul Robeson, in which
Robeson while he does not declare that he is a member of the Com-
munist Party, states that he has made his choice for communism.
Robeson is one of the vice chairmen of the American Peace Mobiliza-
tion, and I ask that this copy of the Soviet Russia Today, with this
interview, be made a part of the record.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The magazine, Soviet Russia Today, was marked "Matthews
Exhibit 2, May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Starnes. How many are on the executive committee; do you
know?
Mr. Matthews. The national executive committee is a list of about
60.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8475
Mr. Starxes. Will you cluH-k and furinsh us tlip pr()])ortionate
number of Avho are actual C'onnnunist members and those who are in
front orjxanizations so that we may have that in succinct form?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. sir.
Mr. Staknes. All rio:ht; is there anything else at this point?
Mr. Matthews. We have a collection of the literature that was dis-
tributed at the American Peace Mobilization meeting in New York.
The sionificance of this, if I may take the liberty of interpreting it,
is that every piece of literature which these investigators were able to
obtain at the meeting, is literature which comes from an organization
which has been designated by this committee as a Communist front
organization, or by rather voluminous evidence in the records of the
oonniiittee, showing a rather complete interlocking of the various
front organizations of the Communist Party, including the American
Peace Mobilization.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't mean that they all come from one organi-
zation, do you? AVhat I mean is, they came from a number of differ-
ent organizations?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. All of which have some connection with the Com-
munist front organizations or party?
Mr. Matthews. It would appear from the literature that was dis-
tributed at the American Peace Molulization and brought to the com-
mittee by these two investigators, that no organization which is not
connected with the Communist Party took the occasion to distribute
its literature at that meeting.
Mr. Staknes. I wan to bi'ing that point out : There was no other
type of literature being distributed there?
Mr. Matthews. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Either free or being sold there ?
Miss Huffman. That is right.
Mr. Starxes. Other than that sponsored by the Communist Party
or its front organizations; is that correct?
Miss Huffman. That is correct, Mr. Starnes.
Mr. Starnes. W"as that correct insofar as you found, ISIiss Spargo ?
Miss Spargo. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. We will ask the investigators to identify the litera-
ture as being collected at the meetings.
Mr. Matthews. You prepared this collection of literature yourself;
did you not?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir; every bit of it.
Mr. Matthews. This collection of literature you did prepare; is
that correct?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And is this literature which was distributed at the
meeting ?
Miss Huffmax-. Distributed or sold.
Mr. Matthews. Distributed or sold at the meeting of the American
Peace Mobilization ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In New York ?
8476 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Huffman, Yes, sir ; not all at the Mecca Temple but at vari
oils American Peace Mobilization meetings.
Mr. Matthews. Will you receive this in evidence?
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The material referred to was marked "Huffman Exhibits, Ma>
22, 1941.")
Mr. Starnes. Anything else now, Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matthews. We have a complete collection of photographs
taken of the peace vigil in front of the White House, Mr. Chairman,
which I offer in evidence as exhibits.
Mr. Starnes. Will you have somebody identity any particular
parties of interest there who have any connection with the Commu-
nist Party or any other subversive group ?
Miss HuTFMAN. This is a picture — the party on the right hand
side is Dr. Walter Scott Neff.
Mr. Matthews. I think you mea^i on the left of the picture.
Miss Huffman. Yes, on the left.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not the National Maritime
Union has any delegates in this picket line ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir. Ye^sterday I came by the picket line and
one of the delegates from the National Maritime Union was one of
the delegates who had been at the Mecca Temple meeting and who
was later up at Randall's Island, and at Randall's Island he was,
besides having the cap that they wore with the sign on and the pin on,
was over at the Abraham Lincoln Brigade
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not any delegates from the
American Communications Association is in the picket line?
Miss Huffman. I did not see her in the picket line but Josephine
Timms, who was a speaker at the mother's meeting on the Monday
following Mother's Day, had stated from the platform that she was
going and she was taking a number of people with her to go down
on the picket line.
Mr. Starnes. That is T-i-m-m-s ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. She is secretary of the American Communications
Association ?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir ; she is also an officer
Mr. Starnes. And Walter Scott Neff, who was identified in this
picture, was identified yesterday as one of the professors at the City
College of New York who was recently ousted as a result of the
investigation of the Coiidre committee?
Miss Huffman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Those photographs having been identified, Dr. Mat-
thews, may be attached as exhibits for the record.
(The photographs, 43 in number, were marked "Huffman Ex-
hibit 4, May 22, 1941.")
Mr. Starnes. Have you anything further at this time, Dr. Mat-
thews ?
Mr. Matthews. Nothing further at this time ; no, sir.
Mr. Starnes. There will be no meeting of the committee this after-
noon. The committee will adjourn until 10 o'clock Monday.
When we convene Monday morning we will hear the testimony of
Richard Krebs, but this phase of the hearing has not been concluded.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8477
The committee is in possession of nnmerous docnments, member-
ship lists, and so forth, that it is checking in a careful and pains-
takino- manner. These are records and docnments which have been
brouixht to the connnittee under subpena.
Tlie Chairman, and I assume I am speakino- for the members
of the committee, was very nnich impressed yesterday by a state-
ment made by an investigator of this committee that there were
Government employees who are terrified at the prospect of being
called before this connnitte as witnesses in order to give testimony
to any subversive activities which they might have cognizance of
in governmental departments and agencies, this terror or fear being
based upon the fact that it might endanger their positions.
Of course, this connnittee has no power to guarantee anyone's
security of tenure in either public or private employment, but it
seems to me to be a sad connnentary that any Government employee
of the United States of America shonld at any time have any fear
of ai)pearing before any congressional committee to give testimony
concerning un-American and subversive activities, or even wrong-
doing that is not attached to nn-American and subversive activi-
ties, to a group who are elected as representatives of the people
of the United States. That, in my judgment, is a very sad com-
mentary on existing conditions in certain agencies.
Now, there has been, of course, a great deal of alarm and of fear
by numbers of good people who may have behmged or may belong
to the Washington Bookshop and other organizations, whose mem-
bership lists the committee now has in its possession. These people
are expressing a fear that they may be tarred with the Communist
brush simply because they might have been members of a certain
organization. It is true that the Communist Party has secured
positions of control and power in a number of organizations which
were wholly worthy in their inception and wholly worth wdiile if
properly administered, That is in addition to the fact, of course,
that they have set up a number of organizations with beautifully
camouflaged names which camouflage their real purpose and intent.
Every American citizen can be assured that this subcommittee will
take no action which will bring discredit or will tend to reflect dis-
credit upon any innocent American citizen. We do feel as a sub-
committee, however, it is important that intelligent people who may
be what they term themselves as "Progressive" or "Radicals" or
"Liberals," or whatever name they want to designate themselves
by% we do think that the time is here and the time is overdue when
people of that type and character, who are genuinely sincere, should
stop permitting themselves to be made dupes of. Certainly some
of them should have enough intelligence to stay out of these organi-
zations. AVe don't know whether there are any repeated oifenders
in this particular respect or not. The committee is not passing on
that matter at this time and will not until we have had an oppor-
tunity to carefully check these lists. Whatever names may be made
public in the future with reference to these organizations, the coun-
try and the people and the innocent people who may be members of
these organizations can rest assured that the names wull be made
public only after careful checking and that every safeguard will
be thrown around innocent people, but at the same time this sub-
g478 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
committee \A'ill not be deterred in its investigations by the fact
that there are innocent people in these groups and where we find
that there are Communists or others — Xazis or Fascists or by what-
ever name called — they are all brothers or sisters under the skin,
because they have a common intent and common purpose at this
time, and that is to destroy our democratic way of life.
I want to say we intend to expose those people wherever they
are — we don't care whether it is in some private organization or gov-
ernmental agency. The people of the United States should know
where they are and who they are.
The committee will stand adjourned until Monday at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10
a. m., Monday, May 26, 1941.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
MONDAY, MAY 26, 1941
House of Representath'es,
SUBCOINIMITTEE OF THE SpECIAL COMMITTEE
To IN^'ESTIGATE TjN-AMERICAISr AcTRlTIES,
Washington^ D. C.
The subcomniittee met at 10 a. m. in the caucus room, House
Office Building, Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee), Voorhis,
and Mason.
Also present : ISIr. Eobert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will resume its sessions. Wliom will
you have this morning, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. Richard Krebs.
Mr. Starnes. Come around, ]\Ir. Krebs.
TESTIMONY OF EICHARD KREBS
Mr. Starnes. Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you
solemnly swear the testimony you are going to give in this investiga-
tion will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Mr. Krebs. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Have a seat and you may proceed. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give your full name?
Mr. Krebs. Richard Julius Krebs.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born, Mr. Krebs?
Mr. Krebs. In Hessia, Germany.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. Krebs. December 17, 1905.
Mr. MArrHEws. Have you used the pen name "Jan Valtin"?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I have.
Mr. Matthews. AamX vou are the author of the book Out of the
Night?
Mr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. AVhen did you first come to the United States?
Mr. Krebs. I came to the United States for the first time in 1921.
Mr. Matthews. And how many trips or visits did you make to the
United States subsequently?
8479
62626— 41— vol. 14 21
3480 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. I have been in and out of the TTnited States four times,
except the last entry, which makes it five times that I entered tliis
country.
Mr. Matthews. And when did you last enter the United States ?
Mr. Krebs. In March 1938.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Krebs, are you acquainted in "general with the
newspaper the Daily Worker?
Mr. Krebs. I have been very well acquainted with it ; not in recent
years, thouf;h.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a copy of the Daily Worker for March
15, 1938. Have you seen this particular issue of the Daily Worker?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I have.
Mr. Matthew\s. On pa^e 1 of this issue of the Daily Worker there
is a photofiraph reproduced called Passport Photo of Richard Krebs.
Is that a photofjraph of yourself?
Mr. Krebs. It was an old picture of myself.
Mr. Matthews. Will you state what tliat picture was, where it
was used, or what its significance is ?
Mr. Krebs. It was a picture used on a document of the German
Gestapo at the time when I worked inside the (lestapo for the Com-
munist International.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, this is a bona fide reproduction of
a part of your Gestapo credentials?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Did I understand you to say when you w^ere work-
mtr for the Communist International
Mr. Mason. With the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. Rijiht.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. You liaA'e read the article which accompanies this
photooraph, have you not?
Mr. Krebs. I have.
Mr. Matthews. In this article in the Daily Worker is there any
mention of your ever havinp; been in the Communist International
or the Comnujnist movement?
Mr. Krebs. No; the article was written to hide that fact.
Mr. Matthew^s. The only chai'o;e made in the article is the one
to the ett'ect that you were a Gestapo agent, is that correct ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir; it is the same charge made against prac-
tically all of Lenin's friends who have since been shot under just
that accusation.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Krebs, I show you some recent issues
of the Daily Worker, one for January 21, 19-11. On page 7 of this
issue of the Daily Worker there is a colunni ovei* the name of Sender
Garlin. I wdll ask you first if you know who Sender Garlin is?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; Sender Garlin was for years the correspondent
of the Daily Worker in Moscow. He was sent especially to Moscow
to report on the Stalin purge trials through the American press.
Mr. Matthews. In this particular column, Garlin is w^riting a re-
view of your book. Out of The Night. Have you read that review?
Mr. Krebs. I have.
Mr, Matthews. Can you state briefly the purport of the review
in this issue of the Daily Worker?
UN-A.MKKICAN riiOrAUANDA ACTIVITIES 8481
Mr. IvKF.ns. The i)uii)ort of this review is an effort to tell Daily
AVorker readers thai T don't exist at all, but that Out of The Night
has been written eolUn-tively by Isaac Don Levine, General Krivitsky,
F'reda Utley", and so- forth.
Mr. Matthews. This review contains the definite statement that
there was no such person an Jan Valtin ^
Mr. Kkebs. It contains the statement that Jan Valtin is Isaac Don
Levine.
Mr. Matfuews. Now in the Daily Worker for January 24, 1941,
there is a ccmtin nation of the discussion of the book. Out of The
Nio-ht, also by Sender Garlin. Have you read this article?
Mr. Krebs. I have.
Mr. Matthews. What is the purport of this article?
Mr. Krebs. Reviews of the book written by Isaac Don Levine are
quoted but they are used in such a way as to give the readers of this
paper the false imj^ression that Isaac Don Levine had written the
book, and repeat the statement that Valtin did not exist, in order to
discredit the book.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a copy of the Daily Worker for Febru-
ary 21, 1941, which has another article by Sender Garlin, beginning;
on the first page. Have you read that article?
Mr. Krebs, I have.
Mr. Matthews. By the time this article was written, had the Daily
Worker changed its position from that of your nonexistence to a
position that you did in reality exist as a Gestapo agent?
Mr. Kkebs. It is one of their usual somersaults in policy aild tactics
after they saw that the book could not be silenced to death and re-
ceived the wide circulation that it did, then they realized that he
argument "Valtin did not exist" was not believed by anyone, so they
changed their tactics and now state that Valtin did exist but that he
was a Nazi agent.
Mr. Matthews. Now, I will ask you this question : Does the book
Out of The Night contain sufficient detailed information or facts to
identif}^ the author of the book in Conmiunist circles, even though
no name at all appeared on the book?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. Many American Communists of prominence are
mentioned in the book. Some of them were guests at my home in
Hamburg and the book contained enough material for instant identi-
fication by those Connnunist functionaries in America.
Mr. Matthews. In the issue of the Daily Worker in March 1938 —
March 15, 1938 — where the Daily AVorker through Sender Garlin said
tliat it had obtained your Gestapo credentials
Mr. Krebs. The Daily Worker said this photograph was brought
to them by German seamen. The truth is that this photograph has
been, since the spring of 1937, in the files of the G. P. U. in Moscow.
The publication of this picture by the Daily Worker and by other
Communist papers appearing in the United States, shows that this
material was sent to them straight from Moscow. It appeared 3
months after my break with the Communist International.
Mr. Matthews. When was your break with the Connnunist Inter-
national ?
Mr. Krebs. December 1937 and beginning of January 1938.
8482 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. So in 1938 the Daily Worker stated that it got its
information concerning you from German seamen ?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Then in 1941, 3 years later, where did the Daily
Worker say that it got its information concerning you ?
Mr. Krebs. It is stated here they got the information from Scan-
dinavian seamen.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, the source of this information was
German seamen in 1938 and Scandinavian seamen in 1941?
Mr. Krebs. The reason for that is the Comintern's attitude toward
Hitler has since changed and it would not do to give German anti-
Fascists as the source since they had actually an alliance with Ger-
man Fascists.
Mr. Matthews. Now, what were your exact relationships with the
Gestapo — will you please state those briefly ?
Mr, Krebs. I first same in contact with the Gestapo while doing
underground work against Hitler in Germany.
Mr. Matthews. About what year was that ?
Mr. Krebs. I was sent to Germany in the fall of 1933, the year
Hitler came to power, to reorganize the seamen, dock workers, and
river workers against Hitler..
Mr. Matthews. Wlio sent you?
Mr. Krebs. After some time of underground work I was betrayed
into the hands of the Gestapo by a Nazi spy in the Communist
organizations. I was arrested in November 1933 and after 8 or 9
months in concentration camps I was sentenced to 13 years for high
treason by Nazi courts.
My first contact with the Gestapo came about during weeks of
questioning in Gestapo headquarters in Hambui^ and Berlin.
During the 31/2 years of my imprisonment in various Nazi prisons
I was often called to Gestapo headquarters for further questioning.
Later, at the end of 1936, I received througli a G. P. IT. man working
in the Gestapo — his name was Rudolph Heitman, the order that the
Communist International Bureau in Copenhagen had singled me out
for an attempt to work inside the Gestapo in favor of the Com-
munist Intei-national — that is the Soviet Government. As a loyal
comrade I accepted this order and did my best to cai-ry it out.
I began with asking the Nazi guards for Nazi literature. I asked
for the book, Mein Kampf. I made notations on the margin of
Mein Kampf, knowing that these would be read later by Gestapo
agents. I wrote pro-Nazi notes and dropped them as if by mistake
in the prison yard. The guards would pick them up and read them.
I did everything in general to try to convince the Gestapo that I
had broken with communism and was moving toward the Hitler
faith.
All this was in line with Communist policy of placing its own men
in the police departments of non-Soviet nations.
After 4 or 5 months of such maneuvering I was called again to
Gestapo headquarters, this time not to be questioned but in order
to be tested. The Gestapo wanted to find how far my break with
communism and my drifting toward the Nazi movement was sin-
cere. I passed a great number of their tests. Some of them were
quite tricky. I convinced them finally through the collaboration of
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §483
one of tlio leadin<j; men in Copenhagen — this man's name was Richard
Jensen. Richard Jensen was the leading treasurer of the Comintern
headquarters for the west with its offices in Copenhagen. He knew
of my assignment to worm my way into the Getapo — in the head-
quarters of the Gestapo under the eyes of one of the leaders of the
Gestapo's foreign divisions.
This Gestapo leader was an inspector wdiose name was Paul Kraus.
I wrote a letter to Jensen. The text of the letter made it seem
that 1 had betni released from a Nazi prison and was hiding in Ger-
many and I asked Jensen to send money. This letter was sent off by
the Gestapo while I was still kept in prison. Jensen knew what game
was being played and he promptly sent American money, several hun-
dred dollars, to a fictitious address in Germany. The fact that a
simple letter from me could draw a considerable sum of money from
Connnunist headquarters convinced the Gestapo that my contact with
the Comintern was still good and that my break with the Comintern
was sincere.
After that I was drawn into the active work of the foreign division
of the Gestapo. I remained there for about a total of 5 months doing
all I could to find out secrets and the working methods of the Gestapo
in order to surrender this information to the Comintern and the
G. P. U., which at that time were still fighting the Nazi organizations.
■Sir. INIatthews. During these months of your imprisonment in Ger-
many, how frequently were you in the Gestapo headquarters in Berlin
and Hamburgh
]\Ir. Krebs. During the first 6 or 7 months of my imprisonment I
was at least twice and sometimes three times a week in the Gestapo
offices for que^stioning. In the following 31/2 years my calls to the
Gestapo office slowed down to about one a month or so. But later
on in 1936 and 1937, 1 spent weeks in the headquarters of the Gestapo's
foreign divisicm. day after day from morning until evening.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have an opportunity to learn the methods
of work and the objectives of the foreign division of the Gestapo dur-
ing these periods which you spent there?
Mr. Krebs. I had that opportunity, yes; particularly since I entered
the Gestapo offices from the first to the last with the intention of col-
lecting all possible information in order to make it available for the
fight against Hitler and against Hitler's Gestapo.
Mr. AIatthews. You had been trained for years to make ^iuch ob-
servations and to gather such information, had you not?
Mr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Where are tlie foreign offices of the Gestapo
located ?
Mr. Krkbs. The national offices were located at Berlin in a pahice
called the Prinz Albrecht, located on a short street in Berlin's Gov-
ernment district, known as the Prinz Albrecht Strasse. The execu-
'tive offices, that is the action offices of the foreign division of the
Gestapo, however, were located in Hamburg in a building known as
the Stadthaus, in the center of Hamburg.
Mr. Matthews. Why are the offices of the Gestapo located in Ham-
burg?
jSIr. Krebs. For the same reason which aU foreign divisions of
Nazi organizations were centei*ed in Hamburg; namely, because Ham-
3484 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
bui-g was tlie largest port of the European continent. From Ham-
burg sailed an average of a thousand German ships each month to all
parts of the world, so communications to other countries were much
easier, much more direct from Hamburg than from Berlin. For the
same reason the Communist International has its maritime and com-
munication headquarteis for over 10 years also in Hamburg.
Mr. Matthews. AVill you please state in general what the work of
the foreign division of the Gestapo is as carried on in these executive
offices in Hamburg?
Mr. Krebs. The foreign division of the Gestapo is that part which
does espionage and police work in favor of the German Government
of the German frontiers. It cooperates with the foreign division
of a great number of official Nazi organizations — foreign divisions
of the Nazi Party.
It cooperates with the Military Intelligence of the German High
Command, and it also cooperates with the political police systems
in Japan, Italy, and General Franco's Spain.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, is it the work of the foreign divi-
sion of the Gestapo to compile the most elaborate information con-
cerning every country in the world?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. In watching the officials of the foreign division
at work in the Hamburg offices, I learned first, that the aim of the
Hitler movement was really world domination because there was
not a single country on the map which did not interest the foreign
division of the Gestapo.
The Gestapo charted every item of every phase of life of eveiy
country in the world. I can give you a few examples.
There was one large room solely reserved for card files containing
names of citizens of foreign countries, classified as "enemies,"
"friends," and "residents," and in the different classes each card con-
tained the personal history of the individual, his political affiliations,
his prominence in certain business or certain organizations, or his
prominence in cultural life. It included Government officials, police
officials, teachers, newspapennen, trade-union men. And tlie purpose
of these card files was to have a constant barometer on the strength
of the morale in other nations, and of weaknesses among the popula-
tion of another nation; of elements which could, in case of emergency,
in case of war or intense political campaigns of another nature, be
brought into the harness for the Nazi movement ; and a list of those
which should at once be seized by the Gestapo and interned in case
of a Gennan invasion.
Mr. MATTHEW^s. Was there such an elaborate card-file system on
Americans ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir ; there was.
Mr. Matthews. In these offices of the foreign division of the
Gestapo ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; there was. It concentrated on the American citi-
zens of the eastern and western seaboard.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, in a document obtained by this
committee from the personal effects of G. Wilhelm Kunze, which has
already been released to the public, there appears the following instruc-
tions of the German-American Bund :
Record cards containing personal information about friends, enemies, mer-
chants, politicians, associations, association officers, and similar information
UN-AMKltlCAN PKOl'AdANDA ACTIVITIES 8485
;ib<mt those wlu>in we sliouUl kimw, tn he iiindc (uit in duiilicMlt' cxiu-tly as those
for nioinbcrs, patiniis. and youth voniinandcr nii'mticrs and suhniitlcd nmntldy.
One eanl is to be retained by the unit or braneli directorate and the other is to
be sent to the national exeeutive eonannuttee.
YeUdW cards Ix-arinji the h'tter "F" are intended for enemies; where they are
(ieiman a ■"D"' is Ic be inserted at tlie top. Tliey are not to be used for Jews.
Lifjlit-blue cards bearinj;- Ilic letter "'J" are for Jews.
Mr. Kfobs, was it jtist such a cai'd-iiulex systoiii which was kept by
the foieian division of the Gestapo in H.unburg^
Mr. Krebs. Yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did yon know of the existence of these instructions
to the Gernian-Anierican Btiiid before yesterday i'
Mr. Krebs. No; I did not; but 1 knew that Nazi organizations in
all countries are harnessed to this (jestapo machine; that the Gestapo
utilizes any form of German organization — German business houses,
sieamshi}) lines, air lines, and so forth — as a news-gathering and
espionage auxiliary.
Mr. jVIatthews. Could there be any doubt in your mind that such
information compiled b}^ the German-American Bund in the United
States would eventually find it way to this card file in the Gestapo
headquarters in Hambm-g?
Mr. Krebs. Xot "eventually," but immediately as it is gathered. I
should add there is a special list kei)t by the Gestapo's foreign division
of Americans who traveled abroad, particularly Americans traveling
on the European Continent^
Mr. Starxes. Was there any particular reason for that, Mr. Krebs?
]\Ir. Krebs. The compiling of names of Americans?
]Mr. Starxes. Yes ; traveling abroad.
Mr. Krebs. The theory is that a large percentage or large propor-
tion of Americans traveling abroad are naturalized citizens of America
who have originally come from Germany or some of the countries
bordering on Germany, and also the theory is that these people on
returning to the Continent as tourists for vacations will logicall}^ look
uj) their friends and relatives in the old country.
The Gestapo also compiles a complete register of citizens of Euro-
pean countries who have contacts in America, which is then utilized
for the sending of propaganda to this countiT, not in large packages,
but in millions of small pieces of propaganda which is to be passed
fi'om family to family and friend to friend.
That list is also utilized to put, if necessary, friends and rehitives
of naturtdized Americans under duress if Germany when the time
comes when the Nazis and the Gestapo will try to force these Ameri-
can citizens to do something in Hitler's favor, and also will prevent
German-Americans who are naturalized American citizens in doing
active work against Hitler in this country, since it is always brought
to their memory, "You have friends and relatives in Germany so
keep C|uiet or work with us.''
Mr. Starxes. Might not those names and those contacts also be
utilized to obtain information about the industrial life of America,
her capacity to organize and to produce for defense, and might not
also those contacts be used as a form of es})ion!ige in that connection
in order to check upon the defense efforts of America and the defense
secrets of America^
Mr. Krebs. Yes. There is a special subdepartment in the foreign
division dealing with wjiat is called in Germany "Industrial Reports
8486 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Department." This department has its special schools and concen-
trates on Germans in America and Americans of German origin, who
are trained mechanics, engineers, draftsmen; also newspapermen and
teachers — that is, any likely person working in one of the vital indus-
trial or cultural establishments in tlie United States.
Mr, Matthews. Mr. Krebs, I show you a photostatic copy of a
cablegram which was dispatched from Berlin to the Transocean News
in the United States. This cablegram is in German. Will you please
give a translation of that cablegram ?
Mr. Krebs. This cablegram from Berlin to the Nazi news agency
in this country has the following text :
Urgently require details about the personality of Curran and the role played
by his seamen's union. Please verify.
Mr. Matthews. I show you another cablegram from Berlin to
Transocean News in this country, which text is also in German and
I will ask you to translate that.
Mr. Krebs. "Urgently require details on Curran's latest declara-
tion."
Mr. Starnes. Now, Dr. Matthews, were those cablegrams among
the records that the committee obtained possession of from Trans-
ocean News?
Mr. Matthews. From the files of Transocean News itself.
Mr. Starnes. I see. You might identify those by dates. _
Mr. Matthews. There are identified in a previous publication of
the committee by dates.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Matthews. I would like to ask the witness if such organiza-
tions having headquarters in Germany, such organizations as the
Transocean News, have any relationship to the Gestapo.
Mr, Krebs. Yes; the Transocean News was formed to supply the
people of North, Central, and South America with the Nazi version
of the world's news. In other words, with propaganda, not readily
recognized as such, which is the sign of good propaganda. The Trans-
ocean News was enabled to compete successfully with American news
services by the simple method of being completely subsidized by the
Nazi Government and supplying the news free of charge to the Amer-
ican press.
The officers of the Transocean News are used by the Gestapo not as
a Gestapo organization as such, but in a manner that each office, as in
each other German office of a business, of a consulate or German or-
ganization— there are at least one or two Gestapo men on the job seeing
that instructions from Berlin are carried out and keeping watch on
unreliable elements in these organizations.
Mr. Matthews. Would there be any doubt whatever in your mind
about Transocean News being a front for the Gestapo ?
Mr. Krebs. Absolutely none.
Mr. Matthews. Now, in line with the questions which the chairman
suggested, is that true of all other organizations which have their head-
quarters in Germany today under the Nazi regime and function
abroad ?
Mr. Krebs. Any organization of Germans existing abroad which
does not accept complete Nazi Party and Gestapo domination is
smashed.
U:^-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8487
Mr. Stakxes. Is that true with reference to German-owned or Ger-
man-controlled air lines?
Mr. Krers That is true.
Mr. Starnes. Reojardless of whatever country they are located in?
Mr. Krers. Yes, sir.
jNIr. Starkes. Or operate in ?
Mr. Krebs. That is true. Any employee sent out from Germany to
take a position in any German business house or transportation system
abroad, must pass the Gestapo headquarters and have the okay of the
Gestapo before he is allowed to take that position.
Mr. Starnes. And that would apply particularly to German-owned
and operated air lines in South America?
Mr. Krers. Exactly.
Mr. jNIatthews. Isit correct to say that when Transocean News is
required to send information to Berlin on the personality of Joe Cur-
ran and his role in the National JMaritime Union, and to send informa-
tion on a speech which he made, that such information is desired by the
Gestapo ?
Mr. Krebs. The significance of this to me is that the Gestapo con-
siders Joseph Curran, of the National IMaritime Union of America,
as a A-aluable instrument in its campaign to obstruct aid to Britain,
and also in the campaign to spread the spirit of defeatism in this
country.
Mr. MATTHE^vs. Now, Mr, Krebs, is there a division or a section
in the foreign office of the Gestapo which has the task of carefully
reading foreign publications?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir; there is a large hall on the sixth floor of the
foreign division building in Hamburg, where about 100 people, who
are trained in languages, Gestapo agents, do nothing but scan every
page and every item in every important foreign newspaper. And I
have heard it said by important officials of the department, including
Inspector Kraus, that much valuable information about conditions
and doings in foreign nations, which Germany or Russia would guard
as military secrets, are culled by the Gestapo right from the Ameri-
can press in regard to the location of new Army training camps, the
sailing of warships for maneuvers, the establishment of new defense
factories or the transformation of factories from consumer goods to
defense products. All of these items are clipped out by the Gestapo
press information bureau and pieced together and forms a very valu-
able portion of the sum total of their information about other coun-
tries.
Mr. Matthews. When, for example, a magazine of a scientific or
technical character in the United States publishes elaborate data on
military equipment, would such information be considered of great
value to the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. Of course it would be at once picked up by one of the
thousands of Gestapo agents in this country and either sent to the
nearest German Consulate or Embassy, or be directly sent to Ger-
many by some communication route.
Mr. Matthew^s. Would the publication of such military informa-
tion be considered treasonable in Germany?
Mr. Krebs. Well, for example, yesterday in the New York Times
I saw an item that two American panzer divisions had been com-
3488 UN-AMEKICAN I'KOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
pletely organized and equipped and that these new panzer divisions
were going to have maneuvers somewhere in Tennessee. The date
was given, the phice of the maneuvers, was given, the numerical
strength of these new panzer divisions was given right on the front
page of the Times.
I believe if a German editor did this his head would be off within
3 days for high treason,
Mr. Matthews. Well, that point I am getting at is, one, as to the
usefulness which the Gestapo finds in the freedom of the press of
this country. Have you heard remarks among Gestapo people, high
executives concerning the ease with which they obtain such infor-
mation in the United States?
Mr. Krehs. Yes. Once I heard the remark by Inspector Kraus
in German — I will translate it : ''The lack of discipline of the demo-
cratic press is fodder for us" — free food for us.
I might mention that the Gestapo did not get one-tenth from
British newspapers in the form of military and industrial informa-
tion as they could get from American newspapers.
Mr. Matthew^s, And is that also true of American magazines as
well as newspapers, is such information obtained from magazines?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. sir; from your very popular magazines such as
Life Magazine, as Time Magazine. They are collected in complete
files at Gestapo headquarters.
Every photograph of a new Army bomber, of a new warship, of a
training camp, of a new factory is carefully analyzed. The Gestapo
has apparatus where they have a full-page photograph in Life and
they will cut that full page photograph into 10 or 12 sections and
each section is enlarged to twice the size of this newspaper and then
ihese enlarged sections are pieced together again and handed over
to the engineering department of the military intelligence or of the
central industrial council of the Nazi Party, to be checked on its use-
fulness for any of the German services.
Mr. Matthews. You stated a moment ago that the headquarters
of the foreign division of the Gestapo was located in Hamburg,
that is the executive offices, because that was a port out of which
radiated ■
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. The agents of the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr, Matthews. In the guise of German seamen?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr, Matthews. Now, will you please elaborate on that statement?
Mr. Krebs. Years before Hitler actually came to ])ower, beginning
in 1930 and 1931, the Nazi Party made tremendous efforts at the
complete Nazi domination of the crews of German ships. I know
this phase of the Nazi fight for power in great detail, since I was in
the leadership of the Gommunist organizations in shipping.
By 1923 already, practically all the crews of the large German
liners were organized wnthin the Nazi Party and the Storm Troops.
They organized a special marine section of the Storm Troops organi-
zation which is called the Marine Storm.
After Hitler came to power any German seaman who had the
slightest political blemish from the Nazi point of view on his record,
UN-AM EKICAN 1'H01'A(;AN1)A ACTHITIES 8489
was not ]ioniiitt(Hl to <ro to soa on Ijoard Gorman ships. The men per-
mitted to sail on (Jei-man ships had to be 100 percent trnstworthy,
and even amon<>- these 100 percent Nazi crews were special Nazi
units called in P^n<j:lish "points of support," and also in an imier or-
ganization 01- micleiis of ti'ained Nazis workinij for the Gestapo direct.
By UK]') the ft)reiyii division of the (irestapo, that is, the marine
department of the foreign division of the Gestapo, moved into a
large building of its own which is called the Stellahaus, right on the
watei'front of Hamburg — a modern 10-story building devoted solely
for the maritime — the connnunications end of the foreign division of
the Gestapo.
Mr. Matthews. May I iliterrupt you there at that point?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Ah'. Matthews. "Was the seamen's organization at that time taken
out from under the control of the Labor Front in Germany and placed
directly under the control of the (jestapo?
Mr. Krebs. That is right. In 1935, a few months after the forma-
tion of the foreign division, the former trade union of German sea-
men, which nuiintained the name of "trade unicm," after the Nazis
took over and smashed the old Socialist trade unions in Germany
which had been under the jurisdiction of Dr. Robert Ley of the Ger-
man Labor Front, in Jul}' or August of 1935, this wdiole seamen's sec-
tion of the German Labor Front was taken out of Dr. Ley's jurisdic-
tion and placed under the direct jurisdiction of the Gestapo.
Mr. Matthews. Now, would you say that ])rior to the outbreak of
the present war the principal contacts of the Gestapo with the United
States were through the organized German seamen under the direc-
tion of the Gestapo^
Mr. Krp:bs. It was through German seamen a large part of coastal
espionage was carried on by trained Nazis serving on German ships.
In the fall of 1935 there was not a single overseas ship in the Ger-
man-American marine which did not have in its crew Nazi photo-
graphic specialists whose sole task was to carry on photographic
surveys of the coast lines of foreign nations, photograph harbor en-
trances, case docks, shore fortifications, shipyards and so forth.
There was a si)ecial department of the Gestapo devoted to the
analysis of this material. The results were astonishing. There was
practically no port in the whole world which; was not in the Gestapo
offices in the form of cf)mplete photographic surveys brought in by
thousands of Nazi seamen-photographers.
Mr. ]\L\rTiH:ws. Did the Gestapo attempt to place Nazi seamen on
non-German-owned boats?
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; that was systematically done as well as on Ameri-
can ships.
Mr. ^Iattiiews. Do 5'ou know whether that attempt was successful
in any measure oi- not ?
Mr. Krebs. It was successful in some measure, particularly where
the Nazis detailed to this work succeeded in entering this countrv as
quota inunigrants and obtained first citizenship pai)ers, and wdiere
they were then in a ])osition to enter one of the American dockers' or
seamen's unions and become crew members aboard American ships.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not some Gestapo agents
were sent to the United States in the guise of political refugees?
8490 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. Yes; this group forms a veiy large group of people
used by the Gestapo. Some are trained Nazis posing as political
refugees, but many are actually former political prisoners from Ger-
many whose families are kept as hostages and who were sent out
to work for the Gestapo in foreign countries, including America,
under the threat that they write monthly reports and if the reports
do not come in, "your family will be arrested ; if our checking shows
that your reports contain misleading information your family will
also be arrested."
These people, who being in some measure professional anti-Nazis,
find it particularly easy to be accepted by the public of democratic
countries, since they have really an anti-Nazi record and act not as
Nazis but out of deadly fear of the Nazis throwing their wives and
children into concentration camps or murdered.
Mr. Starnes. In other words the German Government, acting in
conjunction with the Gestapo, sends political refugees, so-called, into
the various countries who' have something of an anti-Nazi record —
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Because the state of public opinion throughout the
world generally, is against Germany and they feel by that means they
will get favorable entree ?
Mr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And they use them for that purpose ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. It has gone so far that to my experience it was
impossible for anyone to be released from a Nazi concentration camp
unless he signed a pledge that he would serve the Gestapo. The great
majority were given jobs in German industries to spy on anti-Nazis
in (xerman industries.
They had to write weekly reports, but anyone who had any sort of
experience in travel or had a family or friends in outside nations, he
was used for foreign work provided he had a family or some sort of
financial reserve which could be kept in Germany as a guaranty for
his loyalty.
Mr. Starnes. As a usual rule no one was let out of a concentration
camp or out of prison without first the Nazis obtaining from that per-
son a pledge that he would serve the Gestapo when released wherever
sent?
Mr. Krebs. Anyone who would not sign the pledge had no chance
of being released at all.
Mr. Matthews. Had you yourself spent a good deal of your early
childhood traveling throughout the world?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I was sent by the Gestapo to Denmark and had
contacts with Gestapo couriers in Belgium and in Holland.
Mr. Matthews. Was it a fact, that you had had much experience
in world travel ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I traveled much before and the Gestapo knew it
and I was a seaman by profession.
Mr. Matthews. And that was the reason you were then permitted
to go outside of Germany for the work that you did ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; but they had my wife and child in Germany as
hostages.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about the German sea-
men's homes in the United States in such cities as New Orleans,
Philadelphia, San Francisco, and New York?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8491
Mr. Krebs. Yes. There were from Republican times in Germany
a number of German seamen's homes in American ports, in North
American ports and also in Latin American ports. The best known
were in New York, Philadelphia, New Orleans, San Francisco, Monte-
video, and Buenos Aires.
These German seamen's homes served as shipping centers for Ger-
man seamen. When a German captain needed a crew he went to the
consul and the consul went to the manager of the German sailor's
home and lie supplied the men. The}' were usually in charge of a
seamen's chaplain — seamen missionaries.
After Hitler came to power all these managers of German seamen's
homes were recalled to Germany and trained Nazis were sent out to
take charge of these seamen's homes and were in control of the ship-
ping out of German sailors to foreign ports.
The result was that anyone who was known as an anti-Nazi or
who was not willing to work with the Nazis had no chance of obtain-
ing a berth through these German shipping offices.
On the other hand, the Nazi managers took care that trained Nazis
were put on ships which were regarded to be on strategic runs — that
is, sailing to strategic ports.
Mr. Matthews. Were many German citizens sent abroad by the
Gestapo and particularly to the United States, with instructions to
obtain their first papers as soon as possible ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. Whenever the Gestapo could find someone who
showed enthusiasm for this sort of task, they usually sent him out
and in their own words it was "kinderspeil" — it was child's play to
get Germans who came to America as quota immigrants to take out
first papers and then they were eligible for work m any of the key
industries, in shipping, and also could easily enter the United States
Army as volunteers, could enter the United States Coast Guard as a
means of obtaining citizenship in 3 years instead of 5 years, which
was just incidental, but important work aside from their general
work for the Nazis in the Gestapo.
Mr. Starnes. You said it was easy for them to do that. What I
want to know is whether you know whether or not they were sent
here with instructions to do that ^
Mr. Krebs. Oh, yes.
Mr. Matthews. You have heard discussions along those lines?
Mr. Krebs. I was personally questioned by Gestapo inspectors on
the possibility of getting men into the Coast Guard.
Mr. Matthews. You mean that a German coming into this country,
coming over here and taking out his first papers, could get into the
United States Army and then could obtain full citizenship in 3 years
because he was in the Army?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Instead of the customary 5 years?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir; that was the custom.
Mr. Matthews. And that situation w^as utilized by the Gestai)o?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir; utilized ever since 1935.
Mr. Matthews. And the same was true of the Coast Guard: is
that correct?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. The same relations ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
8492 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
_ Mr. Starnes. How did these seamen's homes operate in this connec-
tion where unions had been establislied in these union halls?
Mr. Krebs. The Nazi seamen coming to this country ?
Mr. Starmes. Yes.
Mr. Krebs. They usually managed to become crew members of non-
American ships sailing from American ports, particularly the Scan-
dinavian merchant fleets were well penetrated. Many Dutch ships
had Nazis in their crews and some Belgian ships — some of the largest
Belgian ships were manned by, oh, I would say, over 20 percent by
German Nazis. Many of them joined the American seamen's union.
Mr. Matthews. You mean the National Maritime Union?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; the National Maritime Union and also the
westrcoast union, but the easiest mark was the National Maritime
Union, since it was only necessary for them to act as Communists in
order to be readily accepted. And the policy of the Gestapo
in labor unions, since the fact exists that the Gestapo, the Nazi
itself could not operate as a Nazi fraction in a union, is that the Nazis
in the American labor unions will propose a Communist policy as long
as such Communist policy concurs with the policy followed by the
Nazi propaganda machine.
Mr. Matthews. And Gestapo agents will join the Communist frac-
tions of such a union instead of trying to set up a Nazi fraction ?
Mr. Krebs. They will not start by joining a Communist fraction.
They will enter the union as simple seamen and by talking radically,
by taking part in the little, partial strikes against bad food or for
over-time payment, attract the attention of Communist fraction
scouts, wdio are always on the lookout for new recruits, and any young
Nazi that obtains a berth aboard an American ship under the pre-
tension that he is becoming an American citizen, and talks radically,
will sooner or later be approached by the Communist organizer.
The Gestapo tactics is not to ask to be admitted but to act in a way
that will bring the other fellow to come and ask the Gestapo man,
"Please come inside and help us.'
Mr. Starnes. And you know of your own personal knowledge that
Gestapo agents have joined the National Maritime Union for the
purpose of obtaining information and for the purpose of creating
trouble in the American merchant marine?
^Ir. Krebs. I know of two who were sent to this country and ac-
tually did this work. One was Kurt Bailich. Kurt Bailich was a
seaman, German seaman, active for the Gestapo already since 1933.
He was sent over by the Gestapo in 1935 to join the East Coast Sea-
men's Union, I believe — I don't know if the National Maritime Union
existed at that time.
Mr. Starnes. Anyway, the predecessor of the National Maritime
Union ?
Mr. Krebs. That is right. It was the union before that that he
joined. The Gestapo received reports from him as late as 1937.
These reports were shown to me by Gestapo inspectors to show me
the nature of the work that they expected from me.
These reports were sent from New Orleans. Another man, an-
other Nazi operating from American ships, was a man named August
Kastner. Kastner was a former Communist who turned to Gestaj^o
work soon after Hitler came to power. He was one of the Gestapo
couriers aboard the German liner Westemland to New York. In
r.\ AMERICAN PUOI»AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8493
VX\{j, or the be<2;iiiinng' of 1937, he left the shij) in New York to con-
centrate on work in American seamen's organizations. Usually the
Nazi seamen actino- for the (iestapo do not jump at once with both
feet into the American trade-union work without first having gone
through a school of smaller work, serving aboard German ships,
serving as couriers, serving as members of the harbor-control stations,
and so forth.
Mr. Matthews. Now, will you please describe what the nature and
duties of a harbor control bureau are?
Mr. Krehs. The harbor control bureaus of the Gestapo were started
during the Spanish civil war. At that time Germany made every
ell'ort to prevent the shii)ment of food and war materials to Loyalist
Spain, and in order to check the movement of such shipments, the
Gestapo organized observation groups in many important European
ports, particularly in the Scandinavian countries, Belgium, Holland,
and France. •
Nazi seamen were sent to those ports under the guise of seamen,
but they did not ship out but remained in that port engaged in
nothing else but to check on ship movements, nature of ship cargoes,
and so forth.
This work was done in great detail. Each harbor control, pos-
sibly, had a couple of men running around the docks photographing
labels and the inscriptions on packing cases to determine the factories
which had sent out these goods.
They walked aboard ships during the lunch hour in the guise of
jobless seamen coming to bum a meal, and in conversation with the
crew tried to find out the destination of the ship, the composition of
the crew; and wherever possible, attempts were made to contact the
wireless operators of the ship.
All this information was forwarded to the Gestapo, and the Gestapo
used it in counteractions to prevent such shipment.
This mode of harbor supervision was so successful during the
Spanish civil war that it became a world-wide feature of the mari-
time service of the Gestapo, particularly where the press of the coun-
try does not rejiort in detail on ship movements.
Mr. Matthews. Was particular stress laid upon making contact
with the radiomen aboard ships?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. AVhat v ould be the usefulness of radiomen aboard
ships to the Gestapo? Will you describe that?
Mr. Krebs. Well, froin the very beginning the original efforts
to conti-ol the radio personnel aboard merchant ships, politically, was
made by the Comnnniists. They did that with some success, and
the Gestapo became interested in this also during 1935. It ail
started with the marching of the German Army into the Rhine-
land. It coincided with the organization of the foreign division
of the Gestapo.
Gestapo inspectors singled out Communist prisoners in German
concentration camps who liad had maritime experience and questioned
them as to organization methods, lines of approach, program of de-
mand, and so forth, for radio personnel aboard the sihps of various
nations.
Aboard the German merchant marine there was not one radio
operator who was not a member of the Nazi Party, and radio opera-
8494 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
tors aboard German ships were used to relay radio messages of
confidential material gathered in a foreign country by Nazi spies.
For example, material gathered by Gestapo people in this country
in New York, would not be relayed directly by short-wave station
from American territory to Germany,
Before the war broke out information was given to the radio
operators of Gei'man ships, and that information was radioed to
Germany shortly after the ship left port. In this way mobile
communication stations, which could not be traced, were available
for that work.
Considerable efforts have been made to penetrate — to harness —
radio operators on foreign ships to the Gestapo apparatus, with
only minor success.
Ml'. Starnes. Do you know^ where the foreign offices of the Gestapo
were located in some of the countries outside of Germany?
Mr. Keebs. Well, I know the address for Denmark, 'and I know
the address for Belgium.
Mr. Starnes. You know those two?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You did not know it for Italy ?
Mr. Krebs. The Danish interests
Mr. Starnes. For Italy — the Gestapo address in Italy?
Mr. Krebs. No ; I don't know.
Mr. Starnes. Or Spain?
Mr. Krebs. I don't know.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know in the United States?
Mr. I^JiEBS. Well, they need no direct addresses there, because there
is police union, political police union, between the political police
of Germany, Italy, and Japan and the members of the original Comin-
tern pact. They interchange officials. Italian officials of the Italian
Ovra are active in German Gestapo headquarters, and German Gestapo
officials are active in Italian political police headquarters — the same
thing with Japan.
I have known of cases where German anti-Nazi seamen sailed on
British ships, and these British ships came to Italy and Gestapo people
came aboard to take these German anti-Nazis off who were later
spirited from Italy to Germany, which show^ed me that the political
police of Italy and Japan and Germany keep lists of people wanted
by the German Gestapo, and checks on the identity of people coming
in on Italian or foreign ships in the hope of finding a wanted man
once in awhile.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether any such working relationship
exists now between Germany and Russia, since the pact of 1939 ?
Mr. Krebs. I don't know if such a corporation exists now, but I
wouldn't risk going aboard a ship to Vladivostok.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know, Mr. Krebs, to what extent the courier
system of communications has been supplanted by this short-wave
radio method of communications, since the outbreak of the war?
Mr. Krebs. In the Gestapo schools, which exist in every large Ger-
man city, a special course is devoted to the training of future Gestapo
agents in methods of communication.
The usual method used before the war broke out was the courier
method, which was taken over by the Nazis in whole from the Com-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8495
munists. It ^vas the placing of Nazis on German or foreign ships
as crew members who, in foreign ports, received their materiah
As soon as the ship left port the agent who had given them the
material notified by a short message the home port, and as soon as
that ship entered the German port, a man from the Gestapo office was
aboard to take care of that material so that the seamen carrying such
illegal material would not have a chance to do anything wrong with
it except tlirow it overboard on the high seas.
But in cases where information is very urgent and cannot wait for
courier service, or where courier service is interrupted, the radio way
of communication is used.
One important item in the communication sources is a warning
to Gestapo agents to beware of using fixed short wave sending sta-
tions— not to establish short-wave senders in one department, in one
house, and leave it there, but to make everything mobile and port-
able— change it from day to day.
One of the methods advocated for seaport cities was to get pos-
session of a number of small yachts, motor launches, fishing craft
ostensibly under private ownership of Germans who are not open
Nazis, and that such short-wave messages are best sent, not from
ashore but a few miles out from shore at sea, since then a detection
of the station is impossible, since the boat or the yacht or the launch
after sending the message comes back into port.
Mr. Starnes. By the way, I didn't understand you thoroughly a
moment ago about the method of the Gestapo operating in this
country where they had clearing houses, general clearing houses of
information, and so forth and so on. What city or cities do they
operate from chiefly here in the United States^
Mr. Krebs. Before the outbreak of the war it was New York, be-
cause New York offered the best communications with German3\
Mr. Starnes. More contacts with the German Nation were made
through the port of New York than elsewhere ?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct: but since the outbreak of the war,
since the disruption of the North Atlantic communications lines,
there is every indication that the clearing house has been moved to
San Francisco, since the communications mostly go over Russia
and there is comparatively no disturbance in shipping and mails
from the West.
Mr. Starnes. From the West to Russia?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; when, for example, I read or heard that a man
like Captain Wiedemann was appointed to the German consul general
in San Francisco, a post which was before him taken in by a very
minor Nazi official, and San Francisco was not important from the
point of view of the German Empire, but when suddenly AViede-
mann, one of the best-trained and most-trusted men in the German
diplomatic service, is given such a seemingly small post as consul
in San Francisco, it means something.
Mr. Starnes. Is it your experience and your information, based
on your past life and your contacts with both organizations, and
knowing the situation as you do here, that now, since the war has
broken out, the more effective, or the most effective part of their
operations have been along the west coast?
I am speaking now both of the Nazi and Communist Parties.
62626 — 41— vol. 14 22
8496 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. I heard in the foreign division of the Gestapo, toward
the end of 1937, repeated conversations on this country. It started
when Hitler mentioned America — it started with Hitler's paragraphs
on America in the book Mein Kampf.
The Gestapo people regarded America already in 1937 as a hostile
country and an enemy country.
Mr. 'Starnes. As far back as 1937 they referred to America as
being a hostile country or an enemy country?
Mr. Krebs. That is right. The same as they regarded France,
Belgium, Poland, Czechoslovakia as enemy countries, and from their
conversations that I heard I had the impression that in the Gestapo
brains the idea was alive that in case of a war it would be less a
question of open military clash between America and Germany but it
would be between Japan and America and that, therefore, a large
part of the Nazi etfort and Gestapo effort in this country would be
concentrated on the west coast; also because the largest naval bases
are there.
The bulk of the Navy is kept on the west coast. Particular interest
was shown by the foreign division for the Hawaiian Islands, partic-
ularly Pearl Harbor and Honolulu.
Mr. Starnes. That was, of course, because they regarded Hawaii
as the key to the Pacific Ocean and the key to the American defense
system on the west coast ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. It was felt that any long-distance operation of
the American Navy would not start out from San Pedro or San
Diego, but would have their last American base in Hawaii for actiorx
toward Japan.
Mr. Matthews. In the Gestapo or Nazi conception of war, does
the war begin only when shots are fired or teiritory is actually
invaded ?
Mr. Krebs. No; that is the democratic conception of war.
Mr. Matthews. What is their conception?
Mr. Krebs. The democratic nations define war as a war which
starts when soldiers start marching, but not in tlie totalitarian mind,
and particularly the Gestapo mind. With them the war starts when
they send their first agent across another country's frontier with a
secret mission.
Mr. Starnes. Let me ask you this question, Mr. Krebs: Based upon
your experience and your contacts with the Gestapo and Nazi
regimes, is it your opinion that a great deal of their work is carried
on, their propaganda work and their subversive work is carried on
through the consular agencies in this countrv?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. They make use of their consular agents for propa-
ganda purposes and for the acquisition and accumulation and for-
warding or transmission of information vital to the Nazi Gov-
ernment ?
Mr. KRf:BS. You see, the Nazi movement is, as the Communist
movement, divided in two, I would say, lines of progress. One is
comparatively open and legal and the other is completely under-
ground and illegal.
The distribution of propaganda and agitation, anything which
tends to influence public opinion, belongs to the so-called legal por-
tion of their work and is carried on largely through the consulates
UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8497
and t]iroii*rli siu-li oi<>aiiizati()ns as Fritz KiihiTs biiiul and other
German orjjanizations, which also have their headcjuarters in Ham-
bur«r and specializes in Nazi propa<ianda.
The nnder<>roiind part ()i)erates, to my knowledge, independent
of the consuhites. For exami)le, when I was sent to Denmark in
1936, the Gestapo thought that I was actually carrying out their
instructions. T was warned never to a[)proach a German consulate.
They had the theory that German consulates are being watched
by members of eneniy organizations or by police and that anyone
entering or leaving a consulate would sooner or later become identified
or associated with the Nazi cause.
Mr. Starxes. AVhile that may be true, was it your experience that
a portion of the tinancial burden of carrying on this campaign of
pro])aganda came through the consular agents?
ISIr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Starxes. That was a means of transmitting money?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
^Ir. Starxes. From Nazi Germany?
]\Ir. Krebs. Yes, sir.
^Ir. Starxes. Even to the undercover agents of the departments?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Wouldn't this be true, too, that in each one of these
organizations that were open and known and carrying on propa-
ganda work, there Avould be placed police representatives to see how
things were going within that organization?
Ml'. Krebs. I did not quite get the question. Mr. Voorhis.
Mr. VooRHis. You say there are two things conducted entirely dif-
ferent from each other — two divisions of the work?
Mr. ICrebs. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. One is the propaganda work, which is open?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. And largely legal and carried on by organizations
that people in the United States know exist ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. And the other is an underground working of espio-
nage and secret police work ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. My question was whether the organizations that
were carrying on the propaganda work didn't always have placed
in them people from the secret police?
Mr. Krebs. (No answer.)
]Mr. Voorhis. So as to watch what was happening?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. And wouldn't it also be true that each consulate
would probably have such a man?
Mr. Krei5s. Well, the organizations carrying on propaganda work
usually have a nuich larger membership than the underground oper-
ations and there are constantly scouts of the underground apparatus
in the open or half-oi)en mass organizatiims, first, to control the lead-
ershi)) of these organizations, but chiefly to look for new material for
underground work.
Anyone who has been active in the Communist Party or in Fascist
organizations will have the experience that when a marked new talent
8498 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
pops up in some lower unit in the mass organization, this young talent
suddenly disappears from the scene. No one sees him any more. That
means he is recruited for the underground section and has completely
severed relations, official relations with the propaganda organization.
The agencies of the North German Lloyd Line, the Hamburg
American Line in New York, for exami)le, had much more to do with
the underground organizations of the Gestapo, in my opinion, than
the German Consulate in New York.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to ask this question: Can you be any
more specific about such success as may be achieved by tlie Gestapo
or by the Nazis of any kind, or by the Communists, in getting person-
nel into positions as radio operators on American ships?
You said the attempt was made and the committee has had testi-
mony to that effect previously, but I wonder whether you have any
specific knowledge about the ttegree of the success of such efforts ?
Mr. Krebs. Well, offhand I know of one — I can give you his name.
His name is Aage Moeller — M-o-e-l-l-e-r with a Scandinavian "o."
He is third officer aboard the Standard Oil Co. tanker, the Calliope.
and also a member of the G. P. U. for some years, in contact with
Jensen and another G. P. U. chief who is in New York now, George
Hegner.
He has an office in Whitehall Street and his number is in the tele-
phone book.
Mr. VooRHis. Is this fellow on this boat now, as far as you know — is
he on the Standard Oil tanker still as far as you know ?
Mr. Krebs. Well, my information is less than 6 weeks old on this
man.
Mr. VooRHis. What would you estimate has been the degree of
success in getting these people into positions as radio operators?
Mr. Krebs. As radio operators the Nazis will have very great diffi-
culties.
Mr. Starnes. What about the Communists? Would they have as
much difficulty ?
Mr. Krebs. I don't think so, not so great. If the N;t.zis have men
among the radio personnel today on American ships, tlien they are
usually men of German origin, but the Communists find it much
easier because the Nazis have a more or less straight political ap-
proach and appeal to pride and national institutions, but the Com-
munists with their economic approach talk of better living, of any-
thing except G. P. U. and world revolutions.
Mr. VooRHis. More contacts?
Mr. Starnes. But the sum total of the effect at the present time is
the same — it doesn't make any difference whether it is a Communist
or a Nazi aboard the ship, the information and the assistance is given
to Hitler and Germany just the same?
Mr. Krebs. My opinion is that the Communist control of the Na-
tional Maritime Union plays today exactly the game Hitler and
Goebbels would want the American trade-unions to play with no con-
cessions.
Mr. Matthews. With no "concessions," you mean, "with no quali-
fications" ?
Mr. Krebs. I mean 100 percent. Mr. Goebbels himself — if Mr.
Goebbels himself were in charge of the National Maritime Union,
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §499
Messrs. Curran, Ray, and so forth, could not act differently thaii
they act now.
Mr. jMaithews. In that connection who was tlie man who for
many years headed the maritime work of the Communist Interna-
tional?
Mr. Kreks. The ^enertd secretary of the maritime division of the
Connnunist International was, from 1923 to the end of 1939, Albert
Walter.
Mr. Matthews. W-a-1-t-e-r?
]\[r. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. AVith his headquarters in Hamburg?
Mr. Krebs. His headquarters were, during those 10 years, in Ham-
burg at the address on Rothesood Strasse, No. 8.
Mr. Matthews. That is for more than 10 years Albert Walter was
the head of the work of the International among the seamen of the
world ; is that right ?
Mr. Krebs. Among the seamen of all countries, including America.
Mr. Matthews. Did you knoAv Albert Walter?
Mr. IvREBS. I knew him very well.
Mr. Matthews. Did you work under his direction or in his ap-
paratus ?
Mr. Krebs. I saw him for many years almost every — for years I
was in his office most every day.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a page from Look Magazine for May
20, 1941, which has a photograph reproduced. Is that a genuine
photograph ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; it is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall the occasion on which that photo-
graph was made?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. It was an international mass meeting in Ham-
burg, I believe in 1932, made on the occasion when — on the occasion
of the political exploitation of the Scottsboro trial. There were
two Americans, Mr. Louis Engdahl and Ada Wright, supposedly the
mother of one of the condemned Negroes of Scottsboro. They trav-
eled all over Europe and when there was a congi-ess or a mass meet-
ing of Communist leaders, those two popped up to make their speech.
Tliis was a meeting of seamen of various nationalities in a large
hall.
Mr. Matthews. Who is the man in the left of the photograph, the
man standing?
Mr. Krebs. Albert Walter, the head of the maritime division of
the Comintern.
Mr. Matthews. And who is the person seated next to him ?
Mr. Krebs. Johnson, a Negro Communist from America, who
served as an American delegate in Hamburg for a while.
Mr. Matthew^s. And wdio is the person in the middle ?
Mr. Krebs. That is myself.
Mr. Matthews. And who is on your right?
Mr. Krebs. That is another American Communist who was in
charge of work on American ships in continental ports, particularly
Hamburg. His party name was Mike Pell and his real name is
Morris Appelman.
Mr. Matthews. And who is the man on the end ?
8500 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. That is Gundelack, head of the German section of
the
Mr. Matthews. According to this account in Look Magazine, who
supplied this photograph to the magazine?
Mr, Krebs. AVell, I suppose Mike Pell did, who was present at the
meeting.
Mr. Matthews. Morris Appelman signs the statement submitting
the photograph, stating his party name was Mike Pell. That is in-
formation from the Communist Party itself that you were a real
person, really existent and at least had some association with Albert
Walter?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
]\rr. Matthews. Xow, I show you a book entitled ''The S. S. Utah,"
by Mike Pell, published by International Publishers in 1933. Did
you know anything about that book at the time of its preparation?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I know it very well. Mike Pell wrote it while
he worked under my direction in Hamburg in 1932. a year before its
publication.
He received the instructions to — be was writing a book trying to
show how an American ship should be organized in the Communist
sense, and he received instructions through the maritime secretary
out of the Comintern, through Walter, to go ahead. He received
a salary. The writing was financed by the Comintern, and the pur-
pose of the book was to bring out in popular fiction form, the tech-
nique and theory of organizing a strike and mutiny aboard a ship
on the high seas.
It is the story of a lone Communist coming aboard a ship with a
non-Communist crew and ends with the whole crew becoming Com-
munists, putting on a mutiny, shooting by police and things like that.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where Albert Walter is today or
has been in recent months?
Mr. Krebs. Albert Walter is one of the prominent advisers of
the Gestapo in maritime matters. He works for the foreign division
in Hamburg.
Mr. VooRHis. He is one of what ?
Mr. Krebs. Albert Walter is one of the chief advisers of the for-
eign division of the Gestapo in maritime matters today.
Mr. VooRHis. In other words, this man, who for years you worked
with when he was the head of the international Communist organiza-
tion of seamen, is now, you say, the principal adviser of the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct.
Mr. VooRHis. On maritime matters?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; it happened in very many cases.
Mr. VooRHis. How do you know that?
Mr. Matthews. Have you met him since he became an adviser to
the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. INIatthews. Have you had personal conversations with him?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give us the details?
Mr. Krebs. I can give a short history of his turn-over. Walter was
arrested shortly after I was in 1933 and was kept 10 or 11 months
in the Hamburg concentration camp, and after 10 months he made a
r\-A.MEKi(\\x rrvOPAr.Axr>A acttvitiks 8501
deal with the Gestapo in order to save his mother. He was very
devoted to his mother, a woman over 70 years okl, and the Gestapo
knowino; that Walter knew all the secrets without exeei)tion of Com-
munist ()r<ianizalions in the merchant marine fleet and navies of tlie
world, threatened that they would imprison or kill his mother if he
wouldn't come to their side.
That hroke him completely :ind lie came to the side of the Nazis
very early in 1934.
AVhen I was released in 1937 from a Xazi prison, Inspector Kraus
of the Gestapo, gave me Walter's address and asked me to <jo to
Walter and have a talk with him and report on the imj)ression Walter
had made on me. He wanted to use me to test Walter's loyalty as
a Xazi.
I went to AValter's apartment and it was one of the <rreatest shocks
of my life when the man who had been my boss in the Communist
International for many years, tried for 2 hours to convince me of the
correctness of the Nazi policy, and from that I gathered, that is from
his own talk, that he was well paid by the Gestapo but that he was
inside himself a beaten man, but that he served him with his wide
knowledge of maritime matters, and I accept it that he still does so
today. He is the best man they have in maritime questions.
Walter knows America well.' He has been in this country during
the World War as a German war prisoner and it was he who first
organized Lenin's circles in prison camps among the German war
prisoners here and after his release went directly to Russia where
Lenin ai)pointed him as the maritime chief of the Comintern.
Mr. ^Iattiiews. Would you say that the case oi Walter's conversion
to nazi-ism, under duress, as you have described it, is a typical instance
of the use of former anti-Nazis by the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; it is a typical instance, but most of them are not
as important as Walter to them.
Mr. Starnes. I was interested particularly about your reference to
that picture. You say that was at a time when they were making a
political exploitaticm of the Scoffi^horo cam?
Mr. Krehs. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Was that a subject of debate and exploitation and of
wide use throughout the Communist circles in Eui-ope?
Mr. Kkebs. Yes; in every country in Europe the Scoftf<horo ensr
was used by the Communist International to stir up general hatred
among the European workers against the economic and political
system of America, by inciting the German workers, the French
workers, the Swedish workers, to terrible hatreds against American
conditions, by telling them; "See, that is the way proletarians are
treated in America."
Mr. Starnes. In other words, they were using that as an example
of how the capitalistic system in America exploited the proletariat,
or the peasants, or the working classes?
Mr. Krebs. Well, the exploitation of the ScotUhoro case was that
"Eight Negroes had been condenmed to death under fi'amed charges
because they were simply woi-kers who rode on a freight train.''
Mr. Starnes. My interest in it is somewhat personal because I was
called out of a moving picture show on a ]\Iai-ch evening in 1931 to
8502 UN AMERICAN TROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES
take charge of troops going to the scene of action and was pr&sent
throughout the first trial of the case.
Mr. Krebs. It was just through such campaigns that they gained
thousands of new members.
Mr. Starnes. It was my first experience in riot or mob duty from a
military standpoint, therefore, I have some personal interest.
Mr. Matthew^s. Did you say one of the American speakers at that
mass meeting was J. Louis Engdahl ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir ; that is right, from Chicago.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he was head of the
International Labor Defense at the time he made this tour in Europe?
Mr. Krebs. He was nominally the head. The real head was a Kus-
sian, but Engdahl was nominally the leader of the International be-
cause that would carry a stronger appeal for the workers than to have
someone with a Russian name on the list.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know who the actual head of the Interna-
tional Labor Defense was?
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; the first general secretary of the maritime division,
a man named Atchkanov.
Mr. Starnes. And they intervened in this first trial by sending
telegrams of a very threatening nature to the presiding judge at the
Scottsboro trial?
Mr. Krebs. It was organized all over the world.
Mr. Starnes. Those telegrams were delivered personally by me
to the presiding judge at the time and they were very threatening in
their nature.
Mr. Krebs. I have been in Communist cell meetings in Geraiany
where each member of the cell was given 10 or 15 Scottsboro pam-
phlets with instructions "Now you go and sell them for 10 pemiies
and with the proceeds you send a telegram to the President in
America or the judge in Scottsboro."
Mr. Matthew^s. Did you mean by your reference to Ada Wright,
that there was some doubt about her being the real mother of some
of the Scottsboro defendants ?
Mr. Krebs. No; Communist believed she was.
Mr. Matthews. In party circles ; is that the idea ?
Mr. Krebs. Well, the party members didn't believe she was the
mother of one of the Negroes. She was some Communist woman
taken up in Moscow in some way and carried around the world for
that purpose, but the impression given out to the audience in the
mass meetings was that she was the mother of one of the condemned
Negro boys.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Krebs, you stated a moment ago that in the
Nazi concept of war, hostilities begin when the first "fifth columnists"
are sent across the border into a non-Nazi country ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Can you give us some of the ways in which the
Gestapo, working for the Nazi movement, is now directing its attack
upon the United States? What are some of the methods of attack
upon America? You stated that Germany today considers that the
United States is an enemy country and has been since 1937?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. The chief Gestapo attack against the United
States today is only in part directed against the United States. A
UN-AMBiaCAX PROrACANDA ACTIVITIES 8503
larger portion of (iestapo work to mulenniiie the United States
strenirtli at the present time is directed toward Latin America.
The Gestapo leaders of the forei<^n division regard any Gestapo
thrust, any Gestapo success in Latin America not so important be-
cause it brings nearer the domination of Latin America, but it is a
victory in the struggle to create bases and is against the United
States on the theory that with the United States undermined and
torn up by civil strife, distrust between nations, the wliole of America
would fail under their economic and even political control.
Mr. Starnes. You would say, then, the chief method of penetra-
tion and the chief attack directed against this hemisphere is in Latin
America ?
Mr. Krebs. In Latin America; yes.
Mr. Starnes. Rather than directly against the United States of
America ?
Mr. Krebs. That is right. The Gestapo follows the policy of not
openly antagonizing public opinion in the United States, but the
German-speaking portions of the population of some South Ameri-
can countries — there are millions of them living in German towns in
Brazil, Chile, Argentina, and even in Guatemala, with German schools,
where the language is German and not Spanish, but who are citizens
of that Latin-American country.
That is ideal recruiting ground for them. The Germans in Amer-
ica have to some extent been assimilated and are scattered, but the
Germans in South America are completely separate. Their cultural
life and their traditions are completely separate from the Spanish
culture and traditions, and also the resistance with which Nazi and
Gestapo campaigns would meet in Latin America would be much
weaker in Latin America — in South America than in North America,
Mr. Starnes. Do the Germans appreciate the fact that following
the World War and the ascension of power in Germany of Hitler,
that no movement in the United States carried on under a German
brand would be very popular? Do they appreciate that fact? Do
they realize that fact?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; it is very extensively used, but also the economic
motive — I have seen in Hamburg in the office of propaganda, leaflets
for South America. The text in a nutshell was this — it was directed
toward Argentina :
What have you to sell? Your economy depends on the sale of wheat and the
sale of beef. Does America buy beef? No; it exports beef. Does America buy
wheat? No; it exports wheat. Argentinians, your market is Europe and not
America, and the biggest market in Europe is Germany. Therefore, it is logical
for you to work with us instead of with a country in the north which would
like to sell you things, but will not buy from you.
Such arguments are used very extensively in conjunction with the
idealistic arguments about German strength.
Mr. M.'VTTHEWs. Of what value are German business houses in the
United States to the Nazi movement, and what is their relationship
to the Gestapo?
Mr. Krebs. The Gestapo, in sending agents abroad, sends the bulk
of its agents quite legally under the guise of employees to German
business firms abroad.
Any German firm in North and South America doing business with
Germany, being run by Germans or being in some Avay dependent
3504 u^'-A^[EUI('A^• PRorAcjANDA ACTivrnp:^
economically in its public relations with German organizations or in
its public relations with German organizations or German institu-
tions, is used by the Gestapo for its own purposes.
Mr. Matthev/s. And what would those purposes include?
Mr. Krebs. These purposes would include, first, to make every
German business firm a potential fortress in future campaions, with
German business firms located throughout American countries. These
firms are considered as ideal concentration i)oints in case of sndden
emergencies, in case of sudden Nazi call to action. Sec(md, it is
usually that business firms have a very large range of contacts with
other non-German business houses; that the business and commercial
contacts of German firms are used for industrial and transport
espionage ; that well-established German business houses are used for
the purpose of ]:)lacing Gestapo men in the non-German business
houses in American countries.
They are sent over as clerks, as acconntants, as ty])ists, and what
not. They work, and wherever it is possible these peo])le are recom-
mended to other firms.
German businesses which take the form of air lines in Latin
America are of first-rate strategic importance in connection with
espionage, the mapping of countries from the air, monopolizing the
pilot staffs of that country; monopolizing the air fields and landing
bases of that country.
There is not a single German business house in America or branch
of German business houses in America, which have not on their
staff at least one man of the Gestapo. It is this world of business
houses which form the strongest points of the Gestapo as the trade-
unions form the strong basis for Communist and G. P. U. work.
Mr. Starnes. I want you to repeat that. The German or Nazi
Government is using the Gestapo which is working through German
business concerns in this country
i\Ir. Krehs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. To obtain information about our security program
and to produce choke points or to sabotage our efforts?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Just as the Communists are using the trade-unions
for the same identical purpose in sabotaging strikes and slowing
down of production?
Mr. Krebs. It is a Nazi division of work. The Communists could
not penetrate business if they tried.
Mr. Starnes. And neither could the Nazis penetrate the trade-
unions ?
Mr. Krebs. Neither could the Nazis penetrate the trade-unions if
they tried to.
Mr. Mason. But you wouldn't say that now since the Communists
and the Nazis have combined, that they haven't the influence of
both of these organizations — trade-unions and business houses and
therefore are doubly dangerous from our standpoint ?
Mr. Krei^s. Yes, sir; doubly dangerous, especially since their gen-
eral policy today as to world affairs is the same.
Mr. VooRHis. That is a more accurate way to put it than to say
they are in one organization. In other words, as I understand you,
your statement was to the effect that you didn't know of specific
UX-AMEKICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8505
iiKstaiR-es wIrmv there was an actual iiiergino; of the Connminist and
the Nazi organizations, but the fact is that their policies today
are the same policies and that therefore the work done by either
one ()!• the other was of benefit to the other, is that right?
Mr. KuEHs. Yes; that is correct.
Mr, Staknes. In other words, they have merged their objectives
and^ their objectives are the same?
Air. Ki!Eus. Yes.
Mr. Staknes. In that their objective is to destroy a democracy
such as this or as we know it — that is, to destroy democratic gov-
ernment and substitute for it some form of state socialism?
Ml'. Kkebs. Tliat has been the common aim from the very begin-
ning but under different methods.
Mr. Starxes. Now, they find by using their different methods
tliey are approaching the same objective?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. You spoke about German business houses?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. I wouhl like to be clear what we mean by "German
business houses." Do you mean by that a commercial or industrial
organization whose ownership is in Germany.
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. Or do you mean a business in America that is run by
people of German extraction ? Wliich of those two things do you
mean ?
Mr. Krebs. Both. At first this line of action was started with
large German companies based in Germany but with branch offices
in this country.
Mr. VooRiiis. Yes.
Mr. Krebs. It began with the North German Lloyd and Hamburg-
American Lines, particularly with the North German Lloyd. The
Nazis as soon as they came to power forced a fusion of these com-
])anies and the North German Lloyd offices in New York were con-
sidered by the foreign division of the Gestapo in Hamburg, as their
office, as a Gestapo office.
Next the branch offices of the German steel and dye trusts, and
from there on down to very small German-American or American-
German enterprises. For example, before my book was published and
I lived in New York for about 'I years as a man — general laborer —
I tried at various times for jobs, small jobs, such as elevator man
or porter in hotels and apartment houses. I was astonished to find
right in New York and in Brooklyn in modem apartment houses,
maybe owned by a Jewish firm but the superintendent is a German
and a Nazi, anil the whole i)ersonnel of that apartment house were
Nazi members — were members of the Nazi Party, yet it was a modern
apartment block in which members of the Nazi Party were in posses-
sion of passkeys to every apartment.
In all such cases I refused to take this work, but particularly among
the ai)artment house superintendents in New York City — and I know
New York especially because I worked there, there is a very large
number of Nazi Germans even in such districts as Washington
Heights, up in the Bronx and Chelsea and so forth.
3506 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Wherever a Nazi holds the position even of a minor foreman he will
employ only Nazis. When he hears of another job being opened up
somewhere in a factory or in an ofSce, wherever it may be, he will do
his utmost to place a Nazi in that position.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, one thing that I want to try to be clear and
careful about is, we know there are a great number of people in the
United States have German names or are of German descent who are
thoroughly loyal to the United States.
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, we want to be clear that just because the name
of a company happens to be a German name that that doesn't mean
that that company is sympathetic to the Nazis necessarily, does it?
Mr. Krebs. If there is a German business house — even if the chiefs
of that business house are not Nazis, but this German business house
has some sort of dealings with Germany which would enable the
Gestapo to put this business house under economic pressure, this busi-
ness house would be utilized by the Gestapo.
Mr, VooRHis, Then we will say that any American business that
has extensive dealings in Germany is likely to be utilized in the man-
ner that you have described, is that right?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. VooRHis. What is the German name for the Dve Trust ?
Mr. Krebs. The German name?
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Krebs. I. G. Farbenindustrie.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you know anything about the relationship of the
I, G. Farbenindustrie in Germany, which you formerly referred to as
the Dye Trust; do you know whether or not that company controls
any patents for the manufacture of certain important metals in the
United States as well as elsewhere ?
Mr. Krebs. The I. G. Farbenindustrie, I know from first-hand ex-
perience, was already in 1934 completely in the hands of the Gestapo.
They went so far as to have their own Gestapo prison on the factory
grounds of their large works at Leuna. and that the I. G. Farbenin-
dustrie began, particularly after Hitler's ascent to power, to branch
out in the foreign field through subsidiary factories, and go far be-
yond their original scope of production.
I. G. Farbenindustrie means paints, factory production of aniline
paints. But in Germany the I. G. Farbenindustrie includes ex-
plosives. It is the gi^eastest poison-gas industry of the world concen-
trated under the title of I. G. Farbenindustrie, and anything con-
nected with the chemical side of warfare.
Mr. VooRHis. They control patents for the manufacture of magne-
sium, do they not?
Mr. KjtEBS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not they control the patents
for any particular mechanical devices that are essential — like jigs and
dies and that sort of thing that are used in ordnance manufacture and
that sort of thing? The sort of jigs and dies we have used here on
educational orders and that have been used here for producing certain
pieces of ordnance? Do you know whether they have control over
anything like that or patents covering such tools?
UX-AMEKICAN rKOl'ACJANDA ACTIVITIES 8507
Mr. IMattiikws. I don't believe Mr. Krebs understood the question.
Mr. Krebs. I understand.
Mr. Matthews. Congressman Starnes Avants to know if the I. G.
Farbenintkistrie controls patents on such mechanical devices?
Mr. Krebs. Not to my knowledge. That belongs to the metal
industry.
Mr. Starnes. Any further questions, gentlemen?
Mr. Matthews. That is all for today.
Mr. Starxes. The committee will stand adjourned until 10 tomor-
row morning.
(Whereupon, at 12:15 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10
a. m., Tuesday, May 27, 1941.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
TUESDAY, MAY 27, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee to
Investigate Un-American Activities,
Wa-skhigfon, D. G.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m. in the caucus room, House Office
Buildino:, Hon. Joe Starnes (cliairman of tlie subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subconmiittee), Voorhis,
Thomas, and Mason.
Also present : Mr. Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will resume its hearings.
Whom do you have. Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matthews. Richard Krebs.
Mr. Starnes. Come around, Mr. Krebs.
EICHARD KREBS— Recalled
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Krebs, were you ever a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; I was.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state the dates of your member-
nhip in the Conununist Party and describe briefly the periods of Com-
munist Party strategy which your membership covered ?
Mr. Krebs. I became a member of the Conununist Party in the
spring of 1988 and remained a member until December 1937. The
period of membership covered first the period defined by tlfe Com-
munists themselves as the period of relative stabilization. That is
the period following the post-war troubles, which is also the period of
the first 5-y('ar plan, ending about '88-"84.
Following that, in 1937, the so-called period of popular-front policy
of the Comintern, a period which is also described as the people's
front — known as the jjeople's front and also the Ti'ojan horse policy.
Mr. Matthews. What, exactly were your functions as a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Krebs. I began as an active rank-and-file member of the Com-
munist water-front organizations in Hamburg and was later sent as
a traveling maritime organizer to various countries — Holland, Bel-
gium, United States.
In 1930 I became a member of the secretariat of the maritime divi-
sion of the Comintern in the function of international political in-
8509
3510 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
structor, traveling as such in Belgium, Holland, Great Britain, Nor-
way, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, France, and Germany.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Krebs, I- am a little doubtful as to what you
gave as the period of joining the Communist Party. Did you say 1933
or 1923?
Mr. Kbebs. 1923, I meant to say.
Mr. Matthews. Did you name all of the countries in which you had
assignments in the list which you just now gave?
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; all the countries ; my travels to the countries I men-
tioned were following orders to go to these countries — orders from my
superiors in the movement.
Mr. Matthews. What is the reason for the special attention which
the Communists, the Comnuinist International and the Communist
Party, give to the maritime industry?
Mr. Krebs. From the very beginning the maritime industry was
considered by Communist leaders as the most strategic of all indus-
tries from the point of view of the interests and safety of the Soviet
Union.
The underlying theory of intense Communist efforts to control the
maritime industry of other countries was, first, that whoever controls
the ports and the shipping of a nation controls also that nation's ex-
ports and imports ; that is, has an economic strangle hold on the life
of that nation.
Second, that Comnumist control of shipping and liarbors would en-
able the Soviet Union to obstruct eifectively any attempts at overseas
war campaigns carried on by some country without the assent of the
Soviet government.
Mr. Matthews. In what way were the Communist organizations
in the United States shipping industry affiliated with or directed from
Communist centers in the Soviet Union or elsewhere?
Mr. Krebs. As early as 1923 there were no Communist waterfront
organizations to speak of. The first beginnings of Communist ship-
ping organizations in this country were the result of the sending over
to American waters of a number of scores of traveling organizers,
serving as members in ships' crews, coming from Europe and doing
organizing work in every port of call.
Originally these men were supplied with literature and propaganda
material and instructions and a small amount of funds from the
European headquarters, which was, from the very beginning, in
Hamburg.
Since then the successive Communist-controlled maritime organiza-
tions in this country have never acted without being completed in ac-
cord and without following instructions from Comintern maritime
headquarters abroad. It went so far that even the leaders of the
Communist maritime organizations in this country had to be O. K.'d
in Moscow and Hamburg before they were permitted to assume their
jobs.
Mr. Matthews. What year did this Communist drive for the con-
trol of the maritime industry in other countries begin?
Mr. Krebs. It began in 1923. The immediate reason for this in-
ternational campaign to control shipping was this : Following the
World War the Comintern, then under Lenin himself, harbored the
rX-AMERICAN rROPAGANDA ACTIVITIP:S 8511
illusion that the world revolution was coming. There were revolu-
tionary attempts in Hungary, in Finland, in the Baltic countries, and
elsewhere. The idea was: *'We will have a Soviet P]urope within 1
or 2 years."
But as one after another of these revolutionary movements were
beaten dow n ami defeated in Europe, it became ap[)arent to the Soviet
government that the conception of a soviet world Avas still very far
away from its realization.
This conclusion they arrived at toward the end of 1923, after the
decisive defeat of an attempt at an armed insurrection in Germany,
They saw there would be no soviet world within a few years. They
settled down for a long and hard struggle to prepare for the next
revolutionary crisis, and it was with the realization of a long struggle
that the decision was made to make every attempt to control the
maritime industries.
]Mr. Matthews. You are referring to the attempt to set up a Ba-
varian-Soviet republic in Germany in 1923?
Mr. Krebs. Xo; not in Bavaria. The Bavarian attempt was made
in 1919. But in 1923, during the peak of the Gennan inflation and
the French occupation of industrial Ruhr district, there was prevalent
among the German masses a mass despair, and from Moscow through
Kadek and Zinoviev, then heading the Comintern, the diagnosis that
Germany was ripe for revolution.
They sent hundreds of Red Army officers to Germany to organize
militai-y organizations of German Communists. A large amount of
Russian rifles and anmiunition was smuggled into German ports, and
the date of the armed rising of the Connnunists was set repeatedly,
but always canceled until Thaelmann, who later became the chief of
the Conmuuiist Party of Germany, in a rage, gave the order through
the couriers to start out and give the signal for the insurrection.
An order from Moscow canceled this, but to Hamburg the order
did not reach, and one or two smaller cities, in time. There was an
armed insurrection which resulted in defeat. Many hundred lives
were lost, and that ended the attempt at German revolution and
caused the Comintern to give up the idea of immediate world revolu-
tion, and then they settled down for the long campaign of
]Mr. ^Matthews. Who was named by Moscow as the leader of the
International Propaganda and Action Committee for the marine
workers of the world ?
Mr. Kkebs. The first leader appointed by Moscow to head the Inter-
national Propaganda and Action Committee for marine workers — the
Ipac Transport, was a Russian named Atchkanov. a friend of Lenin.
Mr. Matthews. Who were the successors to Atchkanov?
Mr. KuEHs. After 2 or 3 years of Atchkanov's leadership, which
did not bring great organizational success, Moscow decided to move
the center of the Ipac Trans])ort from Moscow to some European
place and appoint a non-Russian as its chief in order to make the
world believe that the international revolutionary seamen's move-
ment was not inspired and directed from Moscow but was a spon-
taneous movement coming fi-om Europe, and so headquarters were
moved from Moscow to Hamburg in the beginning of 1923, and ap-
pointed as chief was the German, Albert Walter, who had a British
and also an American background.
62620 — 41 — vol. 14 23
8512 UN-AMEKICAN I'KOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. IMattiifavs. Were there any Americans in the leadership of the
Ipac or the International Propa<2:anda Action Committee?
Mr. Krei5S. Tliere were Americans in the leadership of the organi-
zation which was a successor of the Ipac Transport.
Mr. Matthews. And what was the name of that successor organ-
ization ?
Mr. Krebs. Ipac Transport was transformed in 193U into an in-
dependent international called the International of Seamen and Har-
bor Workers, or the I. S. H. W.
The formation of this organization, at an international congreSvS
where Americans were appointed to the executive committee of this
maritime division of the Comintern.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall the year in which the transforma-
tion from the International Propaganda and Action Committee to the
International of Seamen and Harbor Workers took place?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; the year wzs 1930, and the cause was the forcing
upon the Russians of the first 5-year plan and industrialization pro-
gram.
Stalin and the Soviet Government could not afford outside inter-
vention; and to make doubly sure, the Ipac Transport was trans-
formed into an independent international of Communuist-dominated
trade-unions. Americans entered this central committee first in 1932.
The Americans named were the Negro, James Ford, who repeat-
edly was a candidate for vice president of the United States; a
young American, who at that time came from San Francisco, whose
name was Thomas Kay.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Ford and Ray or
other American leaders in this movement of the Communist Inter-
national, were present at the conferences in tlie Soviet Union or
elsewhere in Europe? You mean the organizational conference in
connection with the formation of the I. S. IT. W. ?
INIr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did they attend?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. In 1930 at the conference, at a special conference
in Moscow where the organization of the marine international was
decided, three or four Americans were present, but the leaders of the
American delegation were George Mink and Tommy Ray.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph, which is a picture of
delegates of transport workers at the Red International Congress.
Have you seen this photograph before ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know the year in which that congress was
held?
Mr. Krebs. That was an advance conference which took place in
Moscow.
Mr. Matthews. In what year, do you recall?
Mr. Krebs. In 1930.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recognize any of the faces in that picture?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. Way on the right "is Waher, Albert Walter, the
chief of the Comintern's maritime division.
Mr. Matthews. And you identified Walters yesterday as the man
who had been converted under duress to a position in tlie Nazi move-
ment in Germany, did you not?
rX-AMEKU'AN rK()rA(;AXI)A ACTIVITIES 8513
Mr. Krebs. It is tlio samo niini Avho now is the nmritime adviser
for tho Gestapo.
On Walter's left on the pictuie is A. D. Lozov.sky, whose real name
is Abraham Branovitch. Lozovsky is the <2:eneral secretary of the
Ked International L;iboi' Unions in INIoscow, known as the Profin-
teiii. Next to Lozovsky is George Mink, then chief of Commnnist
water-front operations on the east coast
Mr. ^NIaithkws. On the east coast of the United States?
]Mi'. K!n:i?s. On the east coast of the Ignited States. And next to
(ieoriie Mink is Tonnny Ray, who was director of operations on the
west coast of the United States at that time.
Mr. Ma'ithews. Did yon know Tommy Ray pers(mally?
Mr. Khebs. Yes; I have met him several times.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever meet George Mink j^ersonally?
Mr. Kkebs. Whom?
Mr. Maithews. Georoe Mink?
Mr. Krebs. I met George Mink many times personally.
Mr. Maithews. Did you ever meet James Ford personally?
Mr. Kkebs. James Ford worked under my direction in Hamburg
ff)r over 1 year.
Mr. ]\Iattitews. Is this the same James Ford who was a candidate
for the Vice-Presidency on the Comnumist Party ticket in the United
States last year?
Mi-. Kkebs. That is right.
]\lr. Matthews. In how many countries did this maritime division
of tlie Comintern maintain organizations?
Ml-. Kkebs. By 193'2. 2 years after its organization, it had inde-
]>endent trade-unions or trade-union operations in everj' maritime
country of Europe. It had all of the British dominions; a very
strong union in China: also another union in the Dutch East Indies;
some Xegro dockers" unions in Cape Town and Durban ; another one
at Dakar, French West Africa : an East India seamen's union of
]>ritish India; and they were the beginning of Comnumist-dominated
trade-unions in Latin- American countries, particularly the Argentine
and L^ruguay.
Mr. Matthews. When did thev first gain their first foothold in
the United States?
^Ir. Kkebs. The Comintern got its first foothold in the United
States during 1925 and 1926. Mink began work in 1926.
Mr. Matthews. When yon say the Comintern got its first foothold
in the United States, do you mean the marine or maritime division
of the Comintern?
Mr. Kkebs. Maritime division of the Comintern.
Mr. Matthp:ws. In 1925?
Mr. Kkebs. In 1925 and 1926.
Mr. Matthews. And was George Mink the Communist leader for
llie American water front on behalf of the Comintern?
Ml-. Kkebs. Yes; George Mink began work in 1926 organizing Com-
munist groups in East coast ports. He attracted Moscow's atten-
tion because he seemed a very enthusiastic worker and Mink was sub-
seciuently called to Moscow in 1928, together with James Ford, to
attend a world congress, either of the Comintern or the Profintorn,
8514 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
I don't know which, and after his return from Moscow in 1928 he was
the absolute chief of Communist efforts on the American water front.
The authority given him personally by Lozovsky in Moscow took
him out of the jurisdiction of the centi'al committee of the Communist
Party of America. Mink operated as a separate leader. Mink was
not subjected to orders from the American Party leaders. He had
his own budget — that is, his own subsidy from Moscow and operated
directly under Moscoav's orders.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not George Mink was a
seaman ?
Mr. Krebs. George Mink was a taxicab driver in Philadelphia
before he went into the organizing of seamen. I don't believe George
Mink has ever gone to sea except for his trips to Moscow.
Mr. Matthews. Is he not very frequently known as "the taxicab
seaman?"
Mr. Krebs. I beg your pardon?
Mr. Matthews. Is he not freqently known as "the taxicab seaman?"
Mr. Krebs. I don't know. As far as I know the water-front people
and sailors described him chiefly as "Mink the pink."
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph and ask you if you can
identify that as a picture of George Mink ?
Mr. Krebs. That is George Mink.
i\Ir. Matthews. And while you are making the identification of
Mink, there is another photograph on the same page?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know that man ?
Mr. Krebs. That is a man who is called in the party "Horse Face."
whose real name is Roy Hudson, an organizer for the Commiuiist
maritime workers in the United States.
Mr. Starnes. Roy Hudson ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; known in the Communist Party as "Horse
Face."
Who appointed George Mink to this very responsible position which
you described?
Mr. Krebs. George Mink was appointed directly by Lozovsky first,
and his leadership was substantiated and prolonged at orders from
Albert Walter, with the okay of Lozovsky in Moscow.
Mr. Matthews. And you have identified Lozovsky as the head of
the Red International unions?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. As long as that organization was in existence?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. An organization known as the Profintern?
Mr. Krebs. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether Lozovsky is Assistant Com-
missar of Foreign Affairs in the Soviet Union?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, sir. Lozovsky, because of his knowledge of other
people's countries, gained while being head of the Profintern, was
appointed to the post of Assistant Secretary for Foreign Affairs in
the Soviet Government.
Mr. Matthews. Now, will you describe briefly the precise task of
the International Seamen's Clubs in American harbors?
Mr. Krebs. When the Comintern first began its maritime efforts
it had no lai''ge organizations to rely on. The idea was advanced
UX-AMKUICAN I'KUl'ACJANDA ACTIVITIES 8515
by Lozovsky to create in all important harbors of the world Com-
nuinist clubs which should <>ive movies, dances, and entertainments
to attract the seamen, and once the seamen were there, to draw
them into discussions, to supply them with literature, and to use
these International Seamen's Clubs mainly as propa^janda centers,
with the idea that after the seamen's clubs had attracted a number,
a lar<;e number of seamen, hundreds or thousands, in each harbor
or in each large country, that the seamen's clubs should proceed to
organize on that basis seamen's unions.
The tirst seamen's clubs in the United States were started in the
end of 19:26 and 1927, by George jNIink. By 1931 there were, I
think there were a dozen, around a dozen seamen's clubs in the
United States harbors, and another 40 International Seamen's Clubs
scatteied in other chief harbors of the world, including the Soviet
Union.
All these clubs were financed through budgets which came from
Moscow to the I. S. H. W. office in Hamburg, and were then dis-
tributed as subsidies to the various clubs by Albert Walter.
Mr. ^Matthews. When and by whom was the Marine Workers'
Industrial Union organized in the United States^
]\Ir. Thomas. I Avould like to have the witness develop, if you
will iiold that question for a moment, I would like for the witness
to develop where the most active and largest seamen's clubs are
located today in the United States.
Mr. Krebs. The seamen's clubs existed in America — the headquar-
ters was in New York, 140 Broad Street.
There were seamen's clubs in Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore,
Xorfolk. New Orleans, Houston, Tex., Seattle, San Francisco, San
Pedro, that is Los Angeles Harbor; I believe Portland, Oreg.. and
some smaller clubs scattered over smaller ports. These seamen's
clubs were officially liquidated in 1935, when the Comintern decided
on its change of policy from the revolutionary policy to the Trojan
horse policy, when oi'ders were given for the seamen's club members
and the seamen's clubs activities were to join the established trade
unions.
The seamen's clubs were by that time held to have fulfilled their
purpose — that is attract thousands of seamen through their propa-
ganda activities, and now the forces of the seamen's clubs were told to
enter the trade-unions — ^to conquer these trade-unions. That is the
transformation in the words of Lozovsky, from propaganda to action.
A number of seamen's clubs remained in this country but they
were only there for work among non-Americans — foreign seamen
and they were known and still exist under the name "Scandinavian
Seamen s Clubs," in a half dozen American ports.
ISIr. Starxes. But that group of clubs was officiallv liquidated
in 1935?
iNIr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And from that time on they were directed to use
Troian horse tactics and to join existing maritime unions?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Ml-. Starxes. Were they directed to join any particular imion or
do you know what particular maritime union they were directed to
use their efforts toward?
*r<
8516 UX-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; they were ordered at that time to join the Ameri-
can Federation of Labor, International Seamen's Union of the west
coast, the gnlf coast and the east coast.
There was also a firemen's union. Each Communist joined a union
to which he — each Communist joined the union to whicli he belonged
on the basis of the work he was doing aboard a ship. Seamen
joined the seamen's union, the firemen joined the firemen's union;
the east coast sailors joined the east coast union, and the west coast
sailors joined the west coast union, forming Communist fractions
and starting immediately in these unions the so-called rank and file
movement with the objective to overthrow every union leadership
which did not follow the party line.
On the east coast they succeeded in taking over the whole union
in this manner, and on the west coast they did not succeed and are
still working on the camouflaged fraction basis.
Mr. Matthews. When you say the seamen did not succeed on the
west coast, to what particular union do you have reference on the
w^est coast — what is the name of the seamen's union on the west
coast?
Mr. Krebs. Well, there was at that time — at the time the clubs
were liquidated, there was only the International Seamen's Union.
Today it is the union directed by Harry Lundberg, and on the east
coast it is the National Maritime Union, the direct successor of the
old Marine Workers League and the International Seamen's Clubs.
Mr. Matthews. And in between the Marine Workers League and
the National Maritime LTnion there came the Marine Workers Indus-
trial Union.
Mr. Krebs. That is right ; Marine Workers Industrial I^nion was
organized in 1930 on the basis of the International Seamen's Clubs.
The order came from Lozovsky. It was relayed by the Hamburg-
office through Walter and the effect of the order was — the order was
in effect, that Communists all over the world should organize inde-
pendent Communist waterfront unions. They were part and parcel
of the set-up to which also the International Seamen's belong.
This Marine Workers Industrial Union, an outright Communist
Tuiion, was liquidated in 1930 officially, in reality (mly transferred
into a fraction and instructed to enter other unions and take them
over.
The Communists felt at that time that they were strong enough
to do this and take over older unions.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any specific instances in which
money was transmitted from Moscow or from the Soviet Union to
American Communists for use in the maritime industry?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; I know of several instances.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give some of them ?
Mr. Krebs. In 1930 the sum of $40,000 was relayed through the
I. S. H. W. offices in Hamburg to George Mink in New York, to the ad-
dress 140 Broad Street, for an extension of the network of Inter-
national Seamen's Clubs and also for an enlargement and increase of
circulation of the Communist maritime newspaper. The Marine
Workers Voice, at that time.
The monev was shipped in cash by a Communist courier serving
aboard the Hamburg- American Line, Albert Balin.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any other instances ?
UX-A.MEiacA.\ I'KorAlJAXDA ACTH ITU.S 8517
Mr. Krebs. Yes; in 19;^3 I sent over a sum of money to the maii-
tinie hea(l{]uai"tei's in New York. The money then w(>nt lo the ad-
dress of Koy Iluclson, who had snceeeded Mink in the k^adersliip of
the Marine Workers Industrial Union — Mink had been taken over
into (t. p. V. work and was in Europe at that time — and had filled
Mink's place.
Aoain in 1937 a sum of money destined for these Scandmavian sea-
men's clubs and for the publication of the Communist-Scandinavian
and German i)ai)ers for disti-ibution in this country, was shipped
from Copenha<:,en by the maritime division through a courier aboard
the Amei'ican-Scandinavian sliip Scanyoik.
Mr. Matthfavs. In what year?
]\Ii'. Mason. May I ask how much money was sent ? Did you send
much more over here?
Mr. KijEBs. To Roy Hudson was sent from $300 to $400 monthly.
It was for the upkeep of the Marine Workers Voice, the Communist
newspaper here, but the sums were strictly bud<>;eted, not in America,
but were budgeted over in Copenhagen and in Moscow.
The sums were not sent them — they could not receive the whole
sum. The budget was worked out so much for the ])aper and so
much for the clubs and so much for traveling organizers, and so much
for wages, and in order to make protection, each subbudget was
shipped separately across.
Mr. IVLiTTHEWS. In what year did George Mink relinquish his lead-
ership of the Marine Workers Industrial Union and enter the
G. P. U. i
Mr. Krebs. There is no clear demarcation line. George was the
head of the Marine Workers Industrial Union until 1932. but he had
entered the G. P. U. service already in 1930. but was taken altogether
out of the Marine Workers Industrial Union in 1932 to do full time
G. P. U. work.
Mr. Matthews. Was he then succeeded by Eoy Hudson?
!Mr. Krebs. He was succeeded by a committee of three, which in-
cluded Roy Hudson, Tonnny Ray, and Harry Hynes.
Mr. ]Mattiiews. Do you know whether or not Roy Hudson and
Harry Hynes and Tommy Ray now occupy positions of leadership
in the National Maritime Union?
Mr. IvREBS. Harry Hynes was killed in Spain during the civil war.
He was a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade ; Tommy Ray has
been until recently the real power in the National Maritime Union.
Joseph Cui-ran, the nominal head of the union, is in reality nothing
but a marionette for Tommy Ray, who is the actual dictator of the
union, and also the head of the Communist fraction, donunating frac-
tion within tlie Marine Workers Union.
Roy Hudson is regarded as the — he has become a member of the
central committee of the Connnunist Party of America and is re-
garded as the representative of the Comnuuiist fraction of the Marine
Workers Union of the National Maritime Union in the Central
Conunittee of the Communist Party, but has occupied beyond that
high trade union functions for other industries, including indus-
tries in Detroit and the middle western cities.
Roy Hudson was named foi' a wliile as ])ossible successor of Earl
Browder when it became apparent that Browder W(Mdd go to prison.
Tommy Ray some months after the otitbreak of the present war was
§518 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
sent by the Comintern to the West Indies for special work there,
especially in the creation of Communist bases in the West Indies.
Mr. Matthews. Have you information which indicates where
Tommy Ray is presently active^
Mr. Krebs. I understand that lonnnv lia> is pn'bt'.ill} active- on
the West Indian islands of Jamaica and Haiti and Cuba, and so
forth.
Mr. Starnes. Has he been active in Puerto Rico and the Virgin
Islands, so far as you know?
Mr. Krebs. Well, I don't know the exact details. I know that he
has been sent to the West Indies for a certain Communist job.
Mr. Starnes. What was that job?
Mr. Krebs. The job was to create Comnuniist waterfront bases in
the ports of the West Indies.
I found it of special interest at that time because I knew that Nazi
organizers at the same time were very active in making bases for
themselves in the ports of the West Indian islands.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask a question: Has Tommy Ray also been
active down on the Gulf coast?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; he has been active on the Gulf coast and west
coast.
Mr. Thomas. What has he been doing on the Gulf coast?
Mr. Krebs. National Maritime Union work, Marine Workers In-
dustrial work and organizing. He was constantly traveling, making
the rounds, calling meetings of local leaders, pointing out faults, lay-
ing down the line for future action, and so forth.
Each of these groups on the Gulf and west coasts were duty bound
to send monthly reports to Tommy Ray, and Ray and Hudson then
combined these monthly reports and sent each month a total report
to the maritime division over in Europe, in Copenhagen and Ham-
burg.
The headquarters were in Hamburg until Hitler came into power
and after Hitler came to power the maritime headquarters for the
whole International were moved from Hamburg to Copenhagen.
Mr. Matthews. And after Hitler took Copenhagen do you know
where they were moved to?
Mr. Krebs. There is only two places where they could have moved,
one is Leningrad, the chief port of Russia, and the other is some
port in the United States either San Francisco or New York.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall a speech made by Tommy Ray at
an international gathering in which the line of the Communist In-
lernational was laid down for work among the workers of the mari-
time industry ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; that was during the International World Con-
gress of Marine Workers, which took place in May 1932, in Ham-
burg. The exact date is May 20 until May 25, 1932.
Communist marine workers delegations from 20 to 30 countries
took part at this congress. There was a strong Americjin delegation
under the leadership of George Mink, and Tommy Ray was present
and Tonnny Ray was sing'led out by the leaders of the maritime
division to deliver to this congress the main speech on the task of
Communist seamen and dockers in the event of war.
UX-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8519
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Ray had any collab-
orators in the preparation of this speech for the sabotage of war
activities^
Mr. KiJKivs. Yes; he hail. Before the congress opened, the whole
line of the conoivss and the j)hascs of the speeches were let down
liy a connnittee of foui' or five, which included Albert Walter, myself,
(leoro-e Miidv. and a personal dele<>;ate of Stalin, whose name was
Komissarenko. Komissarenko was the special deleoate of the Soviet
(iovernment at the headquarters of the marine division.
Mr. Matthews. Are you able at this time to give a brief summary
of the contents of that speech made by Tommy Ray and on wliich
you collaborated^
INIr. Krebs. Yes. In speaking about the task of Communist water-
front workers in case of an outbreak of war, in Communist parlance
"impei-ialist war/' Ray outlined the stratei2:ic importance of the ship-
ping industry and pointed out that in tJie event of war it would be
the prime and foremost task of the Communist organizers, first, to
obstruct the transport of war materials for any country waging
war without the consent of the Soviet Government.
War materials are not only defined as munitions, cannon, tanks,
and so forth; but oil cargoes, gasoline cargoes, wool cargoes — wool
for the making of uniforms, food shipments — everything that is used
for the maintenance of an army is considered by the Comintern as
war material.
The methods to achieve this obstruction were first and foremost,
the method of strikes. The line let down was that the workers should
not be called to a general strike in the maritime industry under the
slogan '"Obstruct war traiisports," chiefly, but that the wn)rkers should
be led easily into such an action under economic slogans such as
higher wages, free Sunday in port for every day spent out at sea,
and so forth, and that only after physical clashes between the strik-
ing masses and the police or the military and arrests, not until then
should political slogans be advanced — "Down with police brutality,
freedom of the arrested," and the central slogan "'Down with war,"
and "Prevent the transport of war materials."
The congress adopted a resolution based on the speech delivered
tliei'e at this international congress by Tommy Ray.
Mr. Thomas. Do you have a copy of that resolution. Mr. Matthews?
Mr. Mattheavs. We don't have it in full. We have a report of the
congress and of the resolution, which I am about to bring to the
attention of the witness.
:\Ir. Krebs. this is an issue of the Daily Worker for May 22, 1932.
On the front page is an article entitled "International Congress of
Seamen and Harbor Workers Cheers Scottsboro INIother," from Ham-
burg, Germany. Have you seen that article?
Mr. Krebs. I have seen much longer reports on the congress. This
is just a dispatch. I have seen it some time ago, it seems.
Mr. IMatthews. Will you note that the Daily Worker itself calls
attention to the presence of certain Americans at this congress? Will
Vou read what it has to say about these Americans i' This is the
Daily Worker for May 23 instead of May 22.
§520 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs (reading) :
A huge banner demanding the release of the nine framed-up innocent Scotts-
boro Negro boys hangs over the entrance of the large hall, which is the scene
of the First World Congress of the International Seamen and Harbor Workers.
The congress includes 139 delegates representing the seamen and harbor work-
ers of 27 countries.
Mrs. Ada Wright, mother of two of the Scottsboro boys, and .T. Louis Engdahl
are seated among the fractional delegates. A Scottsboro re.soluticm calling for
the organization of Scottsboro defense committees on all ships and in all harbors
1o cooperate with the International Red Aid has been unanimously adopted.
It was gi-eeted with a thunder of cheers and applause.
George Mink, heading the American delegation, introduced a resolution de-
manding the release of Tom Mooney.
Tommy Ray of San Francisco, one of the American delegates, made the
report on war. The American delegate. Loren/,, of New Orleans, and Mink,
of New York, in discussion rai.sed the Scottsboro and Mooney persecutions as
part of the war preparations of American imperialism.
W'alter, secretary of the International Seamen and Harbor Workei's, reported
and by presenting concrete facts proved that the critis of world capitalism is
I'apidly deepening, with worsening conditions for the seamen and harbor work-
ers and the whole working class. He showed deepening poverty and famine
esiiecially among the colonial seamen and dockers. He presented proof showing
a decrease of 40 percent in the transport trade, with 14.000,000 tons of shipping
laid up, and 24 percent of the ships sailing with cargoes. He showed on the
other hand that the ship tonnage of the Soviet Union has increased 100 percent
over 1913—
and so forth, and then it goes on, in a political vein.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a copy of the International Trade
Union Press Correspondence. Was that a publication of the Com-
munist International?
Mr. Krebs. That was the publication of Lozovsky of the Comintern.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please describe briefly the article which
appears on page 4 of this issue ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. It contains a summary of the antiwar resolutions
adopted by this International Maritime Congress after the speech of
Tommy Ray.
Mr. Matthews. CongTessman Thomas, this is as near a complete
account of the resoloution as we happen to have in our possession.
Mr. Starnes. What is that in?
Mr. Matthews. This is from the International Trade Union Press
Correspondence, which the witness has identified as the organ of Lo-
zovsky, who was head of the Profintern in Moscow.
Mr. Krebs. The headline is "Appeal of the World Congress of Water
Tran.sport Workers Against Imperialist War."
Mr. Starnes. Are you going to be able to trace this movement into
its various ramifications in the United States and Latin America?
Mr. Matthews. Right down to the present day.
Mr. Starnes. That being true, the committee will withhold any
ciuestions and let you develop that in a chronological manner.
Mr. Matthews. You may proceed, Mr. Krebs.
Mr. Krebs (reading) :
Remember the horrors of the World War when millions of workers bled to
death foi' the prf)fit-craving capitalists. Tens of thousands of seamen went down
in torpedoed, bombed, and blown-up ships whilst women and children perished
in penuz-y and hiniger.
The same fate hovers over you today. Therefore, don't hesitate. Watch
carefully at every harbor, on every ship and river vessel that is being loaded and
transported. Should arms or other war material be shipiied, organize the im-
mediate stoppage of loading, unloading, and transporting of any kind of war
material.
rX-A:\IKKI('AX rUOTAlJANDA A( ri\ ITIES 8521
Mr. Matthews. Xoav yon say that is a resohitimi basod upon the
speec'li iiuide by Toininy Kay at this international congress, a speech
upon wliich j'on coUaborated?
Mr. Kkkbs. That isrig^ht.
Mr. Matthews. Is that correct?
Mr. Kkebs. That is ri<ihi.
Mr. IVLvtthews. Do you know whetlier or not that particular line
has ever been changed?
Mr. Krers. No; it has never been changed.
Mr. ^\)()RIIIs. AA'hen was that given?
Mr. Matthews. That was in May of 1932.
Mr. Starnes. And it is still tlie policy of the Communist Party
to watch tlie cargoes tliat ai'e being loaded upon shi})s and to stop
loading of arms or nuuiitions or anything that goes into the defense
of a nation?
]Mr. Krebs. Yes. The policy still stands. It is not for all trans-
)K)rts. but for just those transports which do not have the O. K. of
the Soviet Government.
Mr. Starves. In other words, if the Soviet Government O. K.'s it,
it could be shipped anywhere; if they are against it then it would
be the j^olicy of the National Maritime Union or any other union
under Connnunist domination to stop those shipments by refusing
to load, and by striking, and so forth?
Mr. Krebs. Refusing to load, refusing to transport, refusing to
handle in any way anything which has to do with war materials.
Mr. Voorhis. What about American aid to England going out of
the east coast ports? What about American goods going to Eng-
land— war materials leaving east coast ports or any other ports, for
that matter, at the present time?
Mr. Krebs. For England?
Mr. Voorhis, Yes. It would seem logical to me that something
would be done by this group to prevent that.
Mr. Krebs. Yes. The Comnuniist organizations even today make
all possible efforts to obstruct shipments of war material to Britain.
Uj) to the present time such shipments have been carried mainly
aboai'd British bottoms where Communist influence is very weak,
but where such sliipments have been carried on non-British and non-
American bottoms, that is, on ships whose crews are controlled by
the now existing Scandinavian Seamen's Clubs, which do not limit
theii- activities to Scandinavians but embrace Dutchmen and Belgians
and seamen of other con({uered— other nations con([uered by Hitler,
there have been a great innnber of strikes started because of minor
economic demands designed to delay the shipment for days and often
weeks.
The issue has not become acute for American ships since no
American ships as yet have been used to carry such material, but
declarations by the Connnunist fraction leaders in the mai'itime
unions, and Curran himself, stated that they had the power to ob-
stiuct such shi})ments and I hey would use it.
Mr. 'J'homas. In other words, Russia has the whip hand on Amer-
ican shi])ping at all times?
Ml-. Krebs. He feels that he has the whip hand because he knows
there is not a single American ship sailing from east coast ports
which does not have aboard among its crew a Communit unit.
g522 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRHis. You said a statement had been made by Joseph
Curran.
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; Joseph Curran l\as made a statement.
Mr. VooRHis. When and Avhere?
Mr. Krebs. In a speech before a union meeting or a union con-
vention. It has been generally in the American press and also the
National Maritime Union has issued a special pamphlet in conjunc-
tion with the AVest Coast Longshoremen's Union, under the title
"The Yanks Are Not Coming," and this was distributed in thousands
of copies on American ships and in American harbors to create a
spirit that : "It is up to you to decide whether the Yanks are coming
or whether they are not coming."
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether or not the National Mari-
time Union is cooperating with the American Peace Mobilization in
its present-day program?
Mr. Krebs. The American Peace Mobilization is a comparatively
new organization and I know practically nothing about it, but if the
American Peace Mobilization is a front for the Communist Party
then I would say with 100-percent surety that they cooperate.
Mr. Starnes. With the National Maritime Union?
Mr. Krebs. Because both are fronts for one and the same thing,
both are directed in the last analysis by the Central Committee of
the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Is the National Maritime Union the successor of
the Marine Workers Industrial Union ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes, it is. It is not the direct successor. The Marine
Workers Industrial Union was ordered liquidated by Moscow in 1935
after the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International
in Moscow, which took place in that year. They decided under
orders from Georgi Dimitrotf to change the policy to the Trojan-
horse policy.
The Marine Workers Industrial Union was dissolved. The mem-
bers of this union entered the American Federation of Labor's Inter-
national Seamen's Union as rank and file members, formed the frac-
tions, grew in the rank and file movement, and particularly since the
end of 1934 this rank and file movement grew, assumed more and
more power inside of the existing International Seamen's Union,
until by the end of 1936 the Conmiunist rank and file movement,
that is, the Communist caucus, the Communist block, had com])lete
power of the union.
The union was destroyed and a new union was created by the same
rank and file movement called the National Maritime Union of
America.
Mr. Matthews. Is it customary for the Communist leadership in
such unions to send detailed regular and frequent reports to any
international headquarters of the Comintern?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; as long as I was active in Communist organiza-
tions, the rule w^as it was mandatory that every Communist fraction,
every Communist organization operating in the maritime industry,
also every Communist Party itself, should send once a month a de-
^tailed report on the past month's activities and results obtained, plus
a plan for the next month's work, to international headquarters.
UX-AMKUK'AN runi'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8523
I have seen myself, a miniber of such reports which were sent iii
by Roy Hudson and some were written by Tommy Ray.
Mr. Matthews. AVas it a part of your work as an agent of the
G. P. U. to read such reports from time to time?
Mr. Kkebs. All reports arriving at headquarters were analyzed
fii-st by the maritime division and then they were handed over to
the local G. P. U. office. They were studied there and then the reports
vrere given to the couriers sei'ving as seamen aboard a Soviet ship.
It must be noticed that wherever a Communist headquartei*s is
located it is always a harbor which has regular contact with Soviet
shipping, Russian shipping. These ships are the last link of all
material which comes in which is sifted first in Copenhagen and
then put aboard a Soviet ship and forvrarded to INIoscow.
^Ir. Mattheavs. Is it your testimony that even though you yourself
were not present in the United States during some of these periods,
that you did read the reports from the Communist leaders concern-
ing tile activities and developments in the United States?
jNIr. Krebs. I read some of those reports in 1933 and again in
1937 in the headquarters of the maritime division in Copenhagen.
I can give you the address of the headquarters at that time.
Ml'. Matthews. What is the address?
Mr. Krebs. Vestr Brogade. That is the name of the street. The
name of the building in Vesterport. It is the largest and most modern
office building in the Danish capital, and the maritime division and
the western secretariat of the Comintern maintained a flight of
offices there, camouflaged as a firm of architects. The sign on the
door reads Selvo & Co., Architects. It was to these offices that the
reports were sent out where I read some of them.
Mr. Matthews. Was it your practice to have any special attention
given to reports that dealt with strikes in the maritime industry?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; whenever a strike took place a conq^lete and de-
tailed report of such a strike, sometimes where reports with hundreds
of typewritten pages were sent in to headquarters.
The strike report was checked by independent reports from con-
trolled people placed in the various harbors and then the concurrent
leports were analyzed, the facts were taken together; weakness of
strategy and tactics were pointed out, good points were stressed and
the lessons from each strike rei>ort were drawn and formulated as
lessons for tactical measures to be taken in the strikes of the future.
Such analyses and lessons of strikes were usually published in
pam])hlet form or in mimeographed bulletins and then sent to Com-
.munist maritime groups all over the world for study purposes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any strike which was considered of
such an outstanding character in Communist International circles, a
strike which occurred in the maritime industry of the United States,
thai such an analysis was published throughout the world?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; there was only one strike, though, in the maritime
industry of the United States which was considered of international
significance and of outstanding importance and that was the water-
front strike which resulted in the San Francisco general strike in
1934.
Mr. Matthews. Did you yourself read the reports of Communist
leaders from that San Francisco strike?
g524 rX-AMERICAX PKOPAGAXDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Krebs. Yes ; I read tliein years later, in 1937, after I came from
Germany and read over a large number of such reports in order to
familiarize myself in what had happened during my absence from
headquarters.
Mr. Matthews. Who were the authors of those reports sent from
this country to Copenhagen, dealing with the San Francisco general
strike ? Who were the authors, wdio prepared those reports in this
country?
Mr. Krebs. The reports came from various sources. The ones deal-
ing with the Marine Workers Industrial Unions were sent by Hudson
and Ray.
Mr. Matthew^s. In reading the reports that had to do with the gen-
eral strike in San Francisco, of what significance did the Communist
International derive from them?
Mr. Krebs. They pointed out in their analysis of the Frisco general
strike that it w'as the first general strike which had ever taken j^lace
in the United States under clear Comnuniist leadership. Second,
they pointed out, the sequence in Comnuniist strategy in using the
strikes as stepping stones toward the final aim, armed insurrection.
The sequence pointed out is this : From the partial strike in one indus-
try to the mass strike in one industry, a higher form of battle from
the mass strike in one industry to mass strikes in a group of indus-
tries, and then from the mass strikes in the group of industries
through an intensive propaganda campaign appealed to the jiublic
opinion, that is, to win the sympathy of the population for the
strikers, particularly by provoking clashes in which a few strikers are
killed by police. This is used to capitalize in order to win the favor
of the population and this is considered as the link toward the gen-
eral strike from the mass strike to the general strike.
Now, to this point the San Francisco strike followed the pattern
but it was considered particularly significant because, as is taught in
the Comintern University in Moscow, because fi'om the general
strike in (me district to the general strike all over the country, the
next set-up is general strikes with mass demonstrations of the
workers. The next step is general strike with armed mass demonstra-
tions of the workers and general strikes with armed mass demonstra-
tions supposed to lead the armed and marching and stiiking masses
into open battle with the police and the armed forces of the Govern-
ment, and then comes the final step from general strike with armed
demonstrations to armed insurrection and seizure of power.
Mr. Matthews. In these reports which analyzed the San Fran-
cisco general strike of 1934, was the name of Harry Bridges men-
tioned ?
J\Ir. Krebs. The name of Bridges was mentioned in several re-
ports.
Mr. Matthews. Was there any significance attached to the name
of Harry Bridges in these reports?
Mr. Krebs. The name of Harry Bridges was mentioned in reports
written by Roy Hudson.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall what Hudson had to say about the
significance of Bridges' part in the strike?
Mr. Krebs. Roy Hudson spoke of Bridges as a subordinate, as a
man taking orders from Roy Hudson.
UX-AMKKRAN rK()l'A(;AM)A ALTIVITJES 8525
Mr. Matthews. He spoke of Harry Brid<ies as his own siibordi-
iinte?
Mr. Kkkbs. Yes, sir; as his subordinate.
Mr. Matthews. As takin*; orders from him?
Mr. Krehs. Yes.
^Fi'. Matthews. "What else did he have to say about Bridges, if
auythiu<>:?
Nir. Kkebs. Bridojes was mentioned as Hudson's man on the west
coast, just as Tonnny Ray was Hudson's man on the east coast.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not that was the first
(ime that Bridges had come in some important way to the attention
of the Comnumist International?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; it interested me })articularly because I had been
several times in the United States and I came to the conclusion th.at
the name of Bridges was practically unknown in Conmuuiist circles
before 19;U. but that in the course of the 1934 strike the name became
prominent and was regarded by the maritime division of the Comin-
tern as a very good name, as a name ranking with those of Ray and
Hudson.
Mr. Thomas. Right on that point, Mr. Matthews — I would lil^e to
liave the witness develo]) what he means by "a very good name."'
AVill you bring out as much of that as you possibly can?
Mr. Matthews. "What do you mean when you say the Communist
International movement considered "Bridges a good name'' after
■?
Mr. Krers. At that time the Communists did not have complete —
did not dominate completely any decisive water-front unions in this
country, except their own union, the ]Marine Workers Industrial
Union, and the Conununist argument with regard to the trade-union
movement, particularly during strikes, was that they had to throw
out of the union leaders who did not follow the party lines and men
following the party line be put in power. The differentiation is
sharp. In every strike movement you will find sharp attacks on one
side against one group and an equally sharp and thus support of an-
other group.
]\Ir. Thomas. In other words, Harry Bridges was to be supported
and encouraged by the Conmiunist International?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. The reports stated in effect that Harry Bridges
is "their man." In the resolution distributed to the various mari-
time groups, Harry Bridges was put as a symbol and as an idol of a
type of leader of revolutionary water-front organizations, who should
be emulated, imitated by groups and Communist water-front leaders
elsewhere.
^Ir. VooRHis. Before you leave this line I want to ask a couple of
questions.
Mr. Matthews. I want to show you an article by Jack Stachel in
the magazine the Communist for November 1934, an article entitled
"Our Trade-Union Policy," which was a report to the political bureau
of the Central Committee of the Communist Party.
This article contains a long anal^'sis of the San Francisco general
strike and near the end of it. it reads as follows :
What will happen if the workers elect not only one Bridges but hundreds of
Rridfres in the section and district leadership, not to speak of national leader-
ship? There will be big struggles. The workers will become revolutionized.
8526 UN-AMEaiCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Now I ask yon, Mr. Krebs, in the light of yoiii- own knowledge
of such analysis and reports of strikes, what you are to understand
by this reference to Bridges' leadership in the general strike?
Mr. Krebs. Yes. It is an adaptation of the Comintern trade-
union policy just befoi'e the Seventh World Congress, which was
sent out to the Communist parties in all countries, in 56 countries
where Communist parties exist, and this is, in my judgment, an
adaptation, an American adaptation to a central resolution.
Mr. Matthews. A central resolution of the Comintern?
Mr. Krebs. Of the maritime bureau of the Comintern, heading the
lessons of the general strike in San Francisco.
Mr. Matthews. Which was sent throughout the world ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes; throughout the world.
Mr. Matthews. And this you consider an American adaptation?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Of that central resolution?
Mr. Krebs. I haven't read it through, but I see one line. This
means to get the party membership fully into the trade-unions. "To
strengthen our party base by further recruiting A. F. of L. workers
and to build the apparatus to lead the work from top to bottom."
''Apparatus" is a special term used for illegal and hidden Communist
leadershii), and this conforms exactly with the trade-union policy
dictated from Copenhagen and Moscow just before the Seventh
World Cong:i'ess. That was in 1934.
Mr. Matthew^s. Now returning to this reference to Harry Bridges,
what do you understand by Stachel's statement that the workers will
become revolutionized if hundreds of Bridges are placed in the leader-
ship of the trade unions?
Mr. Krebs. It has to the Communist functionary but one meaning.
Mr. Matthews. What is that ?
Mr. Krebs. The meaning is that Harry Bridges is here considered
by the organization chief of the Communist Party as one of those
rare functionaries who will really understand how to lead masses,
also non-Communist masses into action, into that sort of action which
conforms to the Communist ])rinciples of acceleration of action from
part strikes to mass strikes, to armed demonstrations, and so forth,
wdiich is in the program of the Comintern, defined as the process of
revolutionizing the masses; and wlien the report of Stachel to the
Central Committee states there will be big struggles, the desirability
of having hundreds of Bridges in the movement, and that the workers
will become revolutionized, it is a compliment to Bridges as a party
functionary by the highest party functionary outside of Earl Brow-
der in the United States.
Mr. Matthews. Was Jack Stachel the highest party functionary
outside of Browder in the United States?
Mr. Krebs. Jack Stachel was the organization chief and as such
the real executive of the party. Earl Browder was the political chief
and the man who guided policy.
Mr. Matthews. Did these reports on the San Francisco general
strike, which you read in Copenhagen, leave any doubt in your mind
about the question of Harry Bridges' membership in the Communist
Party?
UX-AMKKUAX riUII'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8527
Mr. Krebs. No; absoliitel}' not. Harry Bridges was regarded in
these r(>p<)i'ts — mentioned in these re})()rts as as much of a liolshevik
at Tonnny Kay and Kt)y Hudson.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about the practice of out-
standing Comnumist leadei-s hohling Connnunist Pai-ty membership
cards ^ Do functionaries like Browder and Ray and Hudson hold
membership cards ^
Mr. Krebs. No: they don't hold membership cards. Membershij)
cards of the Connnunist Party were designed to be carried by the
dupes in the rank and tile, but anyone above the job of a district func-
tionary, that is, the leader of the Conmiunist organization of a city
district, of a county district, who would be caught carrying a Com-
munist membership book, would be expelled from the party for en-
dangering the party t>rganization and his own function by carrying-
such a document around in his pocket.
The party membership book is designed, is used today simply as a
means of control for the payment of dues of the large rank and
file mass of the party, but anyone engaged in leading party work or
in" subleading party work would be considered an irredeemable fool,
guilty of criminaf neglect, if he went anywdiere among non-Com-
munists with a party membership book or even kept a party member-
ship book in his home.
I know that during 15 years of membership in the Communist
Party I stopped carrying a party membership book as early as 1926.
Mr. Matthews. "When you say you stopped carrying a party mem-
bership book, did you have the book anywhere else?
Mr. Krebs. No ; I didn't keep them at all.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, no book was issued to you ?
Mr. Krebs. I received my pay from the organization and auto-
matically, when the pay was given, I had to give 10 or 20 percent of
that pay into the party coffers and that was all.
Mr. ^Iatthews. In other words, do you mean to say that a person
of ]u-ominence may be a member of the Communist Party without
ever having had a party book issued in his name '.
Mr. Krebs. He will have a party membership book issued in his
name wlien he entered the party and was a small comrade of the rank
and file, but as soon as he was trusted with confidential work, it was
his jjarty duty not to carry a membership book.
Air. AIattheavs. Or not co have one anywhere else ?
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. Vooehis. May I interrupt for a moment? I want to ask a few
questions about the San Francisco strike.
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. In the first place, do you believe that the net result
of the San Francisco strike, having taken place and of the experi-
ences that were had in connection with it by that connnunity and by
solid labor oi-ganizations, made more likely or less likely the possi-
l)ility of ])ulling off such a tiling again?
Mr. Krei's. The San Francisco strike, the San Francisco general
strike is regarded by the Communist Party and the Comintern as a
very valuable dress rehearsal.
♦52620— 41— vol. 14 24
8528 UX-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. YooRHis. I am not talkino; about how the Comintern regards
it ; I am talking- about how the rank and file of the American labor
movement were affected in their attitude toward the possibility of
such a thing occurring again. My question is whether you think
that the exi)eriences tnat were had in that strike made it more likely
that solid American labor would fall into such a train of circum-
stances again or less likely that they would?
Mr. Krebs. If a similar condition arises in any other place or again
in San Francisco, and the masses of the workers are convinced,
through clever propaganda, that they are justified in striking, that
they have every chance to win such a strike; that is, obtain the
demands forwarded by their union leadership or by the faction, they
would fall into such a strike.
A strike is not, as it is said in the organization,, "whistled on." A
strike is usually started in a small department and grows.
Mr. VooRHis. But from the standpoint of the labor movement gen-
erally
Mr. Krebs. Yes.
Mr. VooRiiis. They certainly didn't o^ain anything out of the gen-
eral strike in San Francisco.
Mr. Krebs. Well, the San Francisco strike served to create a very
strong fundament for the later longshoremen's organization and wa-
ter-front organizations — the C I. O. controlled organizations on the
west coast. It was the beginning of real Connnunist power on the
west coast.
Mr. VooRHis. Well, I don't think I have made myself clear yet.
INIr. Mason. What Mr. Voorhis is trying to clear up is the fact
that the workers, those who took j^art in this general strike., gained
nothing for themselves but that the Communist Party laid the
foundation for future o])erations because of the general strike.
Mr. Krebs. That is right.
Mr. Mason. And they used the workers as dupes to further their
program and not the welfare of the workers. Is that what you were
trying to say?
Mr. Voorhis. I think that most labor that was drawn into that
realizes that that is exactly wdiat happened.
Mr. Krebs. I understand the question.
Mr. Voorhis. And therefore it seems to me that the net result of
that makes such a recurrence less likely, rather than more so, in the
future.
jNIr. Krebs. Well, the Communist strike purpose has never been,
is never and will never be following the objectives of bettering the
living conditions of the workers because the Communist Party, in
striving for general national crises and revolutionary situations,
would act against their own interests if they worked for bettering
labor conditions.
Mr. Voorhis. Exactly.
Mr. Krebs. Because if they work for better labor conditions, the
proletariat, in their own words, "would be satisfied and they would
be interested in making revolutionary action." But the Communist
Party considers every strike as a political battle, but if they told
the workers: "This is a political battle fought for the benefit of
the Communist policy and Communist organizations," they would
UX-AMEKRAN rUOl'AdANDA ACTIViriES §529
not lure one worker out of his house door by such a slogan, so
they have to advance economic slogans.
JNIr. Stauxes. They do do that. However, the Communist Party
ascends to power iu a union by advancing economic programs which
makes (liii)es of the workers.
Mr. Khebs. Makes du[)es of the rank and file. The rank and tile
Avilj reuiain dupes until they are met by an educational drive in
the counterdirection.
At present the Conununist fractions in many unions have free
hands, because the Connnunists operate with a well-trained, dis-
<'iplined. well-financed machine. The other side has no such ma-
chine. The other side may be the majority but it has no machine,
no oiganization at its disposal, and so long as the workers are not
educated to the real phase of communism's tactics in trade unions
and in strike movements, they are likely to become dupes again at
the next occasion.
Mr. VooRiiis. Xow. one more question about this matter: Isn't it
true that the one thing that Communist strategists hope for most
earnestly is that the employer on his part will be unreasonable or
arbitrary, or that there will be bad conditions actually in existence
iu order to form a basis for an appeal; isn't that true^
Mr. Krebs. That is correct. I have known of strikes called by
organized — by Communist: fractions and by Communist Party or-
ganizations for the outright purpose of strengthening party position.
I remember a shipping strike in Germany. The Communist
Party forced the crew members of some 200 ships out on strike,
and while the rank and file of the seamen were out on strike the
Conununist Party mobilized several hundred Comnumists who
offered themselves as strikebreakers, and then the Communist Party
said : ''There are too many strikebreakers, the ships ai-e out, let us
call the strike off.'" \Yhen the strike was called off. the whole result
was the non-Comnumists who struck found themselves jobless and
the Commu.ni;-t Party had increased its position in the German mer-
chan.t marine fivefold by sending its members in as strikebreakers.
Xow. there are many small aspects. The technique of strikes
is taught in Moscow as medical science is taught in a bona fide col-
lege, and every small item that may crop up in a strike is con-
sidered, weighed, and a rule of conduct laid down. That is
summed up in a word by Lozovsky himself, which is called Strike
Is War, and forms the basis of lecture series at the Lenin Uni-
versity in Moscow.
Mr. Starnes. The Chair wishes to make an announcement. After
conferring with Dr. Matthews, the Chair is of the opinion that some
of the testinu)ny which is now about to be developed has certadn*
national-defense angles that ))robably should be brought to the atten-
tion of the naval and military intelligence before we decide to make
it public.
The Chair is o-oing to call the committee into executive session
and ask the witness to remain. The public hearings of the committee
willbe resumed tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 12 : 15 p. m., the committee went into executive
session.)
INVESTIGATION Oh UN-AMERICAN riiOrAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, MAY 29, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Commtitee
TO Investigate Un-American Activities,
Washmgfon, D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m. in the caucus room. House Office
Building, Hon, Joe Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee), Voorhis,
and Mason.
Also present : Mr. Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. The conunittee will come to order.
The Chair feels a statement should be made at this time with ref-
erence to an investigation which has been conducted by the committee,
■of the background of the signers to Communist election petitions in
the city of Philadelphia.
This investigation reveals some startling facts which the American
people are entitled to have knowledge of. The committee finds on
investigating the background of the signers to these C^ommunist elec-
tion petitions in Philadelphia, 83 signers are employed in the Phila-
<lelphia Navy Yard ; 40 in the Frankfort Arsenal ; 157 in other
Government positions, and 425 miscellaneous workers.
The committee also finds that 114 signers work in the transportation
system in the city of Philadelphia and that 510 are W. P. A. workers.
The conunittee further finds that 5 of the signers work in an electric
■company supplying the city and those vital installations with power,
and that there are 12 teachers and C newspapermen. This, in the judg-
ment of the committee, reveals to an unusual degree the penetration
of the Communist Party into many organizations which are vital and
essential to the function of this democracy of ours.
We don't know how many signed this under misapprehension or oy
mistake. Frankly. iiUelligent peo])le would (l()ul)t that any voter
would sign a jietition to ])lace a l)arty on the ballot regardless of the
name of the party, through ignorance or mistake.
This morning we are to hear testimony of witnesses from the west
coast. The committee has received allegations and comj^laints to the
effect that subversive elements have sought to use legitimate, bona fide
trade unions for political purposes. We do know that that is the pro-
gram of the Communist Party, the avowed program.
8531
8532 UX-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVrriES
We have received alleoations or complaints to the effect that the
Communist Party has placed its members in key positions in certain
of our trade-unions, and that these Communist members or sympa-
tliizers have used this position and have abused this position of trust
and power, to the extent that they have sought to impede production
for national-defense purposes, producing strikes and stoppages that
in some instances are unwarranted.
The connnittee feels that such action does not reflect the ripened
judgment of the working men and women of America, because we
know they are the most loyal and patriotic group of people that we
have. We also know that honest, law-abiding and (jod-fearing labor-
ing men and women in this country, including the greater part of
their leadership, as well as the rank and tile, are anxious to rid the
labor movement of these subversive elements, and they are entitled to
the support of the country in that effort.
The committee knows that the Connnunists in the trade-unions seek
to use their power and the positions which they may hold for the pur-
pose of discrediting trade-unions on the one hand and for destroying
the country on the other.
The result of these allegations and charges of Communist infiltra-
tion or penetration into certain of our trade-unions has produced a
r' umber of un warranted and unnecessary strikes in the country and it
has produced trouble in the industrial centers, all to the detriment of
our defense program, which tlireatens and imperils our national se-
curity, is the reason that we are hearing these witnesses this morning.
Dr. Matthews, whom will you have first?
Mr. Matthews. The first witness is Hugh Ben Inzer.
TESTIMONY OF HUGH BEN INZER. CHAIRMAN, VIGILANT
AMERICAN COMMITTEE
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand? Do
you solenndy swear that the testimony you shall give in this investi-
gation will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you, God ?
Mr. Inzer. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Have a seat, Mr. Inzer, and you may proceed. Dr.
Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state your full name ?
Mr. Inzer. Hugh Ben Inzer.
Mr. Matthews. H-u-g-h B-e-n I-n-z-e-r?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Where do you live, Mr. Inzer?
Mr. Inzer. I live at 10000 Alexander Avenue, South Gate, Calif.
Mr. Matthews. Are you an American citizen?
Mr. Inzer. I am.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born ?
Mr. In/.er. I was ]x)rn in Alabama.
Mr. Mattheavs. When '.
Mr. Inzer. In 1900, September 4.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever served in the armed forces of the
United States?
r NAM KIM CAN I'ltol-AGANDA A( "ri \ 111 I.S 8533
Mr. Lnzeh. Yes, sii-; I have seiA'ed 8 yeai'b in the rnilecl States Navy
and came out with two honorable discharges and a good-conduct
inedal.
Mr. Stakxts. (live us his union l^ackground.
i\Ir. Matthews. Will vou please fix the dates of your service in the
United States Navy ^
Mr. Tx/.ER. I went into the T'nited States Navy in May 1921 and
was discharged in lJ)t29.
Mr. Mattiifa\s. \A'hat is your ]n-esent occupation?
Mr. Inzer. I work at the General Motors assembly ))lant. 2700
Tweedie T^oulevard, South Gate, Calif.
^Ir. Maithews. PTcnv lono- Imve you been working at the General
Motors plant in South Gate, Calif.'^
Mr. Inzer. Since November IC). 108G.
Mr. Matthews. Have you been employed continuously there since
then?
Mr. Inzer. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a member of any labor union at that
plant?
Mr. Inzer. I am a member of the C. I. O., U. A. W.. Local 216.
Ml-. Matthews. That is the United Automobile Workers of Amer-
ica ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. INIatthews. And what do you say is the number of the local?
Mr. Inzer. Local 216.
Mr. Matthews. AVhen did you join Local 216 of the L^. A. W.?
Mr. Inzer. 1937.
Mr. ^Matthews. Do vou believe in the right of labor to organize
and bargain collectively?
Mr. Inzer. I certainly do.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any qualifications whatsoever about
that belief?
Mr. Inzer. Well. I do, because I feel that any
Mr. Matthews. Let me restate the question : Are you entirely
without any qualifications of any kind in favor of such organization?
Ml-. Inzer. I am entirely in favor of it.
Mr. Matthews. Are you prompted in your appearance before this
committee to give testimony by the sole consideration of labor's own
welfare?
Mr. Inzer. That is right. I have labor's welfare at heart only.
Mr. Maithews. You have no other interest in appearing before this
conunittee?
Mr. Inzer. No. sir;
Mr. Matthews. Have 3aju ever held any office in Local 216 of the
U. A. W.?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I have. I was once
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what office you have held
in the union ?
Mr. Inzer. I was elected by the men in my department as commit-
teeman of my department, and the duty of the committeeman was
tf) take u)) the grievances of the men in that department with the
management.
3534 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. When were you elected to that position in the
union ?
Mr. Inzer. I served as committeeman in November and December
of 1939.
Mr. Matthews. Was that an elective position?
Mr. Inzer. It was: by the men in my o;roup.
Mr. Matthews. By the men where ^
Tvlr. Inzer. In my department.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, you were on the negotiating com-
mittee of the union, were you?
Mr. In.5Er. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever held any other ofRce in the union?
Mr. Inzer. I have. In January 1940 I was elected to the executive
board of Local 21G and served until April of 1940, and at that time
I was elected as president of Local 216 and served my term for the
year, and last April past I was reelected as president of Local 216.
Mr. Mai-thews. Were you at that time elected by a vote of the
membership of the union?
Mr. Inzer. I was; a referendum vote.
Mr. Matthews. When was the date again, please, that you were
elected president of Local 216?
Mr. Inzer. That was the latter part of March 1940 and 1941, both,
Mr. Matthews. You were elected twice?
Mr. Inzer. Twice.
Mr. Matthews. Did you serve continuously from the latter part
of March 1940 u]) until recently ?
Mr. Inzer. I did.
Mr. Matthews. What was the size of the majority vote when you
were first elected to the presidency of Local 216?
Mr. Inzer. At the first election I believe there were around 800
vo' e.s cast, and I received 500 of those votes.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. When was your second election to the presidency
of Local 216?
Mr. Inzer. That was in March 1941.
Mr. Matthews. And what was the size of the vote in that election ?
Mr. Inzer. Well, it so happened on that day we had a rainstorm
in California and the men didn't turn out very well. There were
516 votes cast, and I received 316 votes out of the 516.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have one or more opponents in that
election?
Mr. Inzer. I had one opponent.
Mr. Matthews. And he received
Mr. Inzer- Two hundred votes.
Mr. Matthews. Are you still the president of Local 216 of the
U. A. W.?
Mr. Inzer. No, sir; I am not.
Mr. Voorhis. Just a minute. What was the reason that there was
a smaller vote cast on the second election than there was at the first
election?
Mr. Inzer. That was on account of the rain. We had a rainstorm
that day, and the men didn't take time to vote.
Mr. Voorhis. In other words, it wasn't because of a reduction
in the number of members in the local, or anything like that?
rX-AMBKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8535
Ml-. Inzek. Xo; it was not. It just so happened it rained, and the
men didn't ^o out to vote.
Mr. Staknes. They do have rainstorms in California sometimes.
Mr. l-Nziu. That is classed as a "'low l'o<i".''
Ml'. Mai'hikws. You say you are not now the president of Local
21(), even thoii^li \oii were elected to tlial positiou in Marcli of mis
year^
jMr. IxzKK. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And did you resign the presidency of the local?
Mr. Inzer. Yes. sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. When did you resign?
Mr. Inzeu. I resigned the 3d of xVpril 1941.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state briefly at this time what
prompted your resignation from the presidency of the locals
Mr. IxzER. I had been working with a group of C. I. O. men on
the means of eliminating the subversive and racketeering leadership
of the C. I. O. from our ranks on the west coast, and I called a
special meeting to explain to the rank and tile of Local 216 that I
was selected to head this committee.
One of tlie representatives of the C. I. O. on the west coast found
out about the meeting, and he came out and contacted the executive
board of the local before the meeting was to be called and en-
couraged them not to allow me to call the meeting^ as it would be
damaging to the C. I. O.
Mr. Maithews. Do you mean that you resigned the presidency
of the un.ion because you felt that such a position might in some
way conflict with your desires to head the committee which had been
formed for the purpose of eliminating subversive elements from
C. I. O. leadership i
^Ir. IxzER. That is right. I felt that I might go against the
wishes of some of the men in my local if I were to head this com-
mittee, being president of the local. In other words, I would be
more or less expressing their thoughts as well as mine, so I resigned
so I could head this connnittee as a rank-and-file member and express
my own views with the committee.
Mr. Matthews. Was jour resignation due entirely to your own
ijiitiative^
Mr. Inzer. It was.
Mr. Matthews. There was no demand for your resignation from
the membershi]) ?
Mr. Inzer. There was no demand. In other words, the rank and
file objected at the next regular meeting when I presented my resig-
nation; but I asked tliem to accept it, as I was heading this com-
mittee.
iMr. Matthews. Now, is this committee, of which you are now the
head, composed entirely of members of the C. I. O. ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; members of the C. I. O.
Mr. Matthews. Is this conmiittee of which you are the present
head supported financially or otherwise by any individuals, groups,
or agencies outside of the ranks of the C. I. O. ^
^Slr. Inzer. Xo, sir; it is not.
Mr. VooRHis. Let us get the name of that organization.
8536 UX-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. I am coming to that right now. Will you please
give the name of the committee of which you are the head ?
Mr. Inzer. The name of the committee is the Vigilant American
Committee.
Mr. VooiJiiis. The Vigilant Americans Committee?
Mr. Inzer. Vigilant American Committee.
Mr. IMatthews. Has this committee received any financial support
from any individuals or organizations connected with the manage-
ment of industries on the west coast ?
Mr. Inzer. No, sir ; it has not.
Mr. Matthews. Did the committee come into existence entirely on
the initiative of rank-and-file members of the C. I. O. unions?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. In California?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; it did.
Mr. Matthews. And is the objective of the committee solely to
eliminate subversive and racketeering elements from the unions of
which its members are members?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what unions are represented
on the Vigilant American Committee?
Mr. Inzer. We have quite a number of them. I don't have the list
with me, but I can remember most of them. We have the Auto
W^orkers, the Longshoremen, Electric Workers, Shipbuilders, Con-
struction Workers, and some others that I can't remember just at
the present time.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, your committee represents a rank
and file movement throughout the C. I. O. and is not limited to the
United Automobile Workers?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Xow shortly after your first election to the presi-
dency of Local 216' of the U. A. W., were you called into a conference
at the headquarters of your union in Los Angeles?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. MATrHEws. Who asked you to come down to the headquarters
of the union ?
Mr. Inzer. It was Lew Michener, the regional director on the west
coastof theU. A. W.
Mr. jNIatthews. Is that spelled L-e-w M-i-c-h-e-n-e-r?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Lew Michener invited you to come down to C. I. O.
headquarters for a conference?
Mr. Inzer. That is right. He asked me to take a couple of days
otf and the International would pay my expenses while I was off.
Mr. Matthews. Do you recall the exact date of this conference
which vou had at C. I. O. headquarters?
Mr. Inzer. That was on the 8th of May 1940.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state hoAv you are able to recall
the exact date of the conference?
Mr. Inzer. That was the next day after the primary elections
and I believe they were on the 7th of May 1940.
Mr. Matthews. Were there others besides Lew Michener at this
conference at C. I. O. headquarters?
UN-A^fERICAN l'K( )rA< ;aM)A AfTIVITIES 8537
Mr. TxzF.R. Yes, sir: there was. Tliere were a imniber of otlier
men })reseiit.
Mr. Matthews. All riaht. what did you do when you first went
to hea(l(iuarters on May 8, 1940^
Mr. IxzKK. Well, the first thinji; in the niornina- I was taken from
office to odice in the C I. O. buildin.u-, nieetina different ])eople,
anil as I would *xo around and meet them, the International repre-
sentative. Lew Michener, would tell those people that I was elected
president of Local 216, and I would be cooperating with them in
the move to organize the unorganized.
Mr, Matthews. Will you give us the address of the headquarters?
]Mi". Inzer. I don't believe I can give that.
Mr. Matthew\s. In what building is it ^
Mr. Inzer. Well, it is in the C. I. O. Buihling — at that time it
was the Currier Building, down on Third Street, between Spring
and Main.
Mr. Matthews. On Third Street between Spring and Main?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews, You don't remember the exact number, but it
"v\as the Currier Building?
Mr. Inzer. It was tlie Currier Building; yes.
Mr. Matthews. C-u-r-r-i-e-r Building?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Matthews. You spent the morning going from office to office
and being introduced by Michener to C I. O. officials and office
workers, as the newly elected head of Local 216 of the U. A. W. ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. W^hat did you do in the afternoon?
Mr. Inzer. Well, we went out for lunch — I went out for lunch
with Lew Michener and I believe Slim Connolly and Wyndham
Mortimer. After we came back
Mr. Matthews. Just a minute, please. You went out to lunch, you
say, and you believe it was with Slim Connolly?
Mr. Inzer. I know" it was Michener and I know Mortimer was
present and I do believe that Connolly came in and had a cup of
coffee with us.
Mr. Matthews. Who is Mortimer?^
Mr. Inzer. Mortimer is the organizer on the west coast. He has
been in charge of the organizational drive in the aircraft industry.
Mr. ^Iatthews. What is his first name?
Mr. Inzer. Wvndliam Mortimer.
Mr. Mattheavs. W-y-n-d-h-a-m Mortimer?
]\lr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. You are sure he joined you for lunch that day?
Mr. Inzer. Yes; he was there I am positive.
Mr. Matthews. And Slim Connolly joined you for part of the
lunch?
Mr. Inzer. Yes.
Mr. Maithews. Do you know what Slim Connolly's first name is?
Mr. Inzer. Philip Connolly, but he is known as "Slim." Every-
body calls him "Slim."
Mr. Matthews. What is Slim Connolly's position in the C. I. O.
organization in California?
8538 U\-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Inzer. Well, he is president of the State C. I. O. and he is also
secretary to the District Council of Los Angeles.
Mr. Matthews. Now after lunch did you go back to the offices of
Lew Michener?
Ml'. Inzer. Yes; we did.
Mr. Matthews. At headquarters?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. When you went back what happened?
Mr. Inzer. When I went back we went into the regional director's
office, who is Lew Michener, and sat down.
Mr. Matthews. Were there other individuals there?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; there were — Mortimer went in with us and
Connolly waited outside for a while and then he came in with two
other men.
Mr. Matthews. Were these two other men introduced to you?
Mr. Inzer. Yes; they were.
Mr. Matthews. When they were introduced to you, did you hear
their names distinctly?
Mr. Inzer. Yes ; I understood their names.
Mr. Matthews. You have no doubt whatever about their names
as they were introduced to you?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; I have checked them since then.
Mr. Matthews. Who Avere these two men who were introduced to
you on the afternoon of May 8 in the offices of Lew Michener at
C. I. O. headquarters in Los Angeles?
Mr. Inzer. One of them was introduced to me as Hans Diebel and
the other was introduced to me as Pettis Perry.
Mr. Matthews. H-a-n-s D-i-e-b-e-1?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And P-e-t-t-i-s P-e-r-r-y?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you have a date for that conference ?
Mr. Matthews. May 8, 1940.
Mr. Starnes. Now, Dr. Matthews, are you going to show who these
men are?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. When Hans Diebel and Pettis Perry were
introduced to you, were you told anything about their connections?
Mr. Inzer. No, sir; I was not.
Mr. Matthews. Did you subsequently make any investigations on
your own initiative to ascertain who these men were?
Mr. Inzer. I did, after the meeting; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now. while you were still at the meeting, what part
did Hans Diebel jDlay in the discussions there in Lew Michener's
office ?
Mr. Inzer. Well, the only thing he did was to listen to the con-
versation and he would verify different statements made by the re-
gional director or Slim Connolly or AVyndham Mortimer by "Yes" or
"No."
Mr. Matthews. Do you mean to say that Mortimer and Michener
and Connolly from time to time turned to Diebel and asked questions
which brought, from him yes or no answers ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthew\s. Did Michener make any statement there at your
conference or in your discussion about Hans DiebeFs cooperation ^
rX-AMEKICAX I'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8539
Mr. Inzer. Yes: he did. 1 lun sure it was he or Slim Conolly that
made the sttiteiiuMit to me at that time that Hans Diebel was the
owner of a book store — in other Avords, he was a publisher and had a
set-up foi- a news]ia]KM- or hand bills to be put out — literature — and
said that he would at any time eoopei'ati' with the C. I. (). in putting
out literature to be distributed to the different C. I. O. plants in
ease we wanted to call a coast-wide strike to effect the ne^^otiations
on any })lant that they were workino; on at that time; and he also
pointed out that Hans Diebel had cooperated before in putting out
the literature for the C. I. O. on the coast of "The Yanks Are Not
Comino." He brought that out very clearly.
Mr. Starxks. Did Hans Diebel agree to that statement ?
Mr. Inzer. He sat and listened in. He didn't make any comment.
Mr. Starnes. But either Michener or Connolly or both, in the
course of the discussion there, stated that Diebel had cooperated with
them?
Mr. Inzer. Had cooperated with them in putting out the litera-
ture. The Yanks Are Not Coming.
Mr. Starnes. And had agreed to assist them in putting out litera-
ture and distributing it to bring on a coast-wide strike and to cooper-
Ate in the program of the The Yanks Are Not Coming^
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. AVas anything said to 3^ou about yonr willingness
or unwillingness to cooperate with elements who were temporarily in
agreement with the program of the C. I. O. as understood by
ISIichener ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I was asked that question and at the time,
not knowing exactly who these men were and not hearing enough
conversation to become suspicious of them at the time I was asked,
I agreed that I would be glad to have the cooperation and work with
anyone who was willing to help us out on our organizational drive.
^Ir. Matthews. Do you know which one of the men asked you
that question?
Mr. Inzer. (No response.)
Mr. Matthews. Was it Michener or Connolly or Mortimer?
^Ir. Inzer. I believe it was ISIichener, I am positive it was
^Michener.
]\Ir. Matthews. Was Michener's own language in describing these
men: "Elements temporarily in agreement with us"?
Mr. Inzer. No; he didn't bring it out so I would understand that
it was any phonies or any foreign elements or any organizations rep-
resented or representing foreign governments.
Mr. MATrHP:ws. Well, how, exactly, did he describe it?
Ml'. Inzer. Well, the only way he described that was — as I stated,
I didn't know exactly who these men were. It hadn't been told to
me that they were officials of the C. I. O. or who they were.
Mr. Matthews. I want to know^ just how he described them when
he asked you if you were willing to cooperate — what were his words?
Mr. Inzer. He asked me if I was willing to cooperate with any
groups who were willing to cooperate with us in organizing the
unorganized.
Mr. Matthews. Did he use the words "temporary agreement" or
not?
Mr. Inzer. Yes; he did.
g540 UX-AMEIUCAN PKOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. If you are not sure, we want you to sa}^ so.
Mr. Inzer. He did. He did say that — I am positive of that.
Mr. Matthews. Would you be able to recognize a photograph of
Hans Diebel^
Mr. Inzer. I believe I would. I have seen him twice. I believe
I would recognize his picture.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photograph and ask you if you can
identify the individual in that photograph ^
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is Hans Diebel right there. I can recognize
him by his chin and glasses, although he is a heavier man than this
picture now.
Mr. Matthews. Are you absolutely positive of your identification?
Is that the man introduced to you as Hans Diebel by Lew Michener
on the afternoon of May 8, 1940?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is the man.
Mr. VooRHis, You said you had seen him twice ; when was the otlier
time that you saw him?
Mr. Inzer. Tliat was the time we went to the book store to investigate
just where his store was located and what it consisted of.
Mr. Voorhis. And to find out if he was actually the same man?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Voorhis. Did somebody else go with you on that occasion ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, they did; Mr. Franklin went with me.
Mr. Voorhis. And Mr. Franklin is here ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. The only other thing I would like to get clearly in my
mind is exactly who was present at this meeting. Maybe we have that,
but would you just name the people that were there again?
Mr. Inzer. I will name the people who were active in the meeting.
Mr. Voorhis. The ones you are sure of.
Mr. Inzer. There was a number of people coming in and out — the
secretaries, and one of the organizers was sitting at the desk for a
while, but the men actually at the meeting were Slim Connolly, Lew
Michener, Wyndham ]\Iortimer, Hans Diebel, Pettis Perry, and myself.
Mr. Voorhis. At that time what office did you hold?
Mr. Inzer. I was president of local 216.
Mr. Voorhis. President of 3^our local ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right. 1 had just been elected.
Mr. Voorhis. Do you know whether presidents of other locals were
brought in for similar meetings?
Mr. Inzer. Well, I know that they were brought in — in other wordsy
we were taken down as a group, all of the presidents of different locals
of the LT. A. W.— we were taken down for a meeting with the regional
director, but at no other time can I say that these other two men
mentioned were there.
Mr. Voorhis. Was your local one of the more important locals?
Mr. Inzer. My local at that time was the largest U. A. W. local on
the coast.
Mr. Voorhis. It was the largest single local on the coast?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Will you get the size of the membership of his
local?
Mr. Voorhis. That is pretty well indicated in the election that was
held.
IN-AMKKICAN I'lJOTAd AM >A AC11\ IIIES 8541
Mr. Inzkh. TIk' size ol' I he local is 1,800 — we have i,yU0 uieii in the
j)huit.
Mr. \'(H)Kni.s. And you still have that number, approximately?
iNlr. Inzkk. Yes: \ve do.
Mr. Vooiuiis. You say wliile this conference was <i()ino- on on (lie
afternoon of May 8 that there were other people cominji' into the
room and leaving and so on and so forth?
Mr. Inzkk. Yes. sir: that is I'ioht.
Mr. \'o(>i;nis. You can't name any of those peo])le or identify
them and say wlio they were?
Mr. IxzKij. There is only one person that I could identify and
that is a man who was at that time organizer under Lew IMiehener,
and his name was Dick Coleman.
Mr. VooRHis. Dick Coleman?
Mr. IxzER. Dick Coleman; yes, sir.
ISIr. VooKHis. Where is he now?
Mr. Inzer. He is in Los Angeles. He is personnel manager for
the Willys-Overland in Los Angeles.
Mr. VooRHis. Did he hear any of this conversation ?
Mi-. Inzer. I presume he did. He came in the office while we were
there. I wouldn't say that he did. He was busy with his work.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all.
Mr. Matthews. I would like to bring out a few more points about
the photograph, ]\lr. Chairman. This particular photograph is al-
ready an exhibit in the record of this committee, having been intro-
duced almost 3 vears ago.
Mr. Starnes. And properly identified as being a photograph of
HansDiebel?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; of Hans Diebel.
Mr. Starnes. What is his connection with any subversive moA'es
in this count IT. Dr. ]\Iatthews?
]\lr. MATriiEws. I am going to ask the witness
Mr. Starnes. Has that already been established in another part
of the record?
Mr. ALatthews. That has been established by numerous references
in previous hearings. I think the witness also made an investigation
on his own initiative to ascertain Hans DiebeFs connections.
Mr. Starnes. All riglit.
Mr. Matthews. Now. you say you were told that Hans Diebel
Avas the owner of a bookstore in Los Angeles and had some publishing
facilities which would enable him to cooperate with you in the
bringing out of literature; is that correct?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you make inquiries to find out what tlie name
of the bookstore owned by Hans Diebel was?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I did. I had the name of the bookstore, but
I don't have the name with me. I can name it if j^ou tell me.
Mr. M\tthews. Was it the Aryan Book Store?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go personally to the Aryan Book Store
to see if you could identify Hans Diebel as the man you met at
C. I. O. headquarters?
Mr. Inzer. I did; but before I went there I told Brother Franklin
what had hapjiened and he told me wlio these men were.
8542 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr, Matthews. You did not know yourself?
Mr. Inzer. I didn't know who they were connected with; and so
at that time he and I went to locate the book store and to make sure
that he was managing the book store.
Mr. Matthews. Have you learned since your first meeting with
Hans Diebel at C. I. O. headquarters that he is an important indi-
vidual in the German-American Bund in California?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is true.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he holds any official
position in the German-American Bund?
Mr. Inzer. Yes; I know he does. I believe he is at the head of
the German-American Bund right at this time in Los Angeles.
Mr. Maithews. Do you know whether or not Hans Diebel is an
American citizen?
Mr. Inzer. He is not an American citizen.
INIr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he has recently made
application for citizenship?
^Ir. Inzer. He made application and he was turned down here just
recently.
Mr. Matthews. A few weeks ago his application for citizenship
was rejected; is that correct?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In the courts in California?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
ISIr. Matthews. How do you know that?
Mr. Inzer. It was stated in the newspapers and I have also
discussed it with other members of the C. I. O. and they verified it.
Mr. Matthews. In this particular photograph Diebel is pictured as
in charge of a literature table of the German-American Bund at a
bund camp in San Diego, Calif., and he is pictured in his German-
American Bund uniform.
Did you know at the time you met Pettis Perry who he was ?
Mr. Inzer. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Matthews. Have you since made any investigation to find out
who Pettis Perry is?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I have.
]\Ir. Matthews. And what did you learn about Pettis Perry's
connections ?
Mr. Inzer. I learned that he was one of the important people in the
Comnuniist Party in Los Angeles and that he has run for public
office on the Communist ticket in California,
INIr. Matthews. What part did Pettis Perry play in the discussions
m Michener's office on the afternoon of May 8, 1940?
Mr. Inzer. He played the same part as Diebel— just sat in and any
point tliat was brought up that they wanted his sanction on, they
would ask him: "Is that not right?" and he would answer "yes"' or
"no."
Mr. VooRHis. Wasn't Perry a candidate for office in the last elec-
tion i
Mr. Inzer. I believe he was on the Communist ticket.
Mr. Starnes. On the Communist Party ticket ?
Mr. Inzer. On the Communist Party ticket; yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. I thought he ran for Congress.
UN-AMERICAN I'KOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8543
Mr. IxzER. He ran for Congress either the hist election or the time
before.
Mr. ^Iatthkws. Yes, Congressman; the records of the connnittee
show that Pettis Perry has on several occasions run for office on the
Communist Party ticket in California.
Mr. VooRHis, in 1940 I understand Perry was a candidate for Con-
gress from the Fourteenth District against Congressman Tom Ford,
on the Communist Party ticket.
Mr. Matthews. And so far as you could understand the situation.
Perry was there at this meeting with you in Michener's office, in an
advisory capacity — that is, Michener turned to him and asked for his
advice, is that correct?
Mr. Inzer. Tliat is right ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matitiews. Can you recall any particular question that was
asked by Michener or Connolly or Mortimer that was directed to
Periy ?
]\Ir. Inzer. Well, one — I am sure of one that was directed to Perry
and that was ^Michener was explaining to me that it was very im-
portant that all of the heads of the U. A. W. locals in California
should get together so as any time they desired to call a strike of all
phmts to effect the negotiations of any such plant, that it was very
important that we all get together and inform our rank and file
members as to what was taking effect, and he would turn to Perry
"-.TOO "
and ask, "Is that not right f and he would say "yes
Mr. Maithews. Did you learn that Pettis Perry is head of the
International Labor Defense in Los Angeles?
Mr. Inzer. I did ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Would you give a brief personal description of
Pettis Perry ?
Mr. Inzer. Pettis Perry is a colored man and I would say he is
about the age of 40 and weighs close to 200 pounds.
Mr. Matthews. What was your reaction to the situation after you
learned that Hans Diebel was prominent in the affairs of the German-
American Bund and Pettis Perry was prominent in the affairs of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Inzer. Well. I was very much shocked because before I was
elected to office I had heard the regional director and Slim Connolly
speak at different meetings and state that the C. I. O. should stay
away from politics or any group that was not for organized labor, and
I was really shocked to learn that they were affiliating themselves
with these men, as they were members of the Comnumist Party and the
German-American Bund.
Mr. Matthews. You stayed in your position as president of the
local. Local 216. after you had learned about this connection with
Diebel and Perry, for approximately 1 year, did you not?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr, Matthews. Did your ultimate resigTiation from the presidency
have anything to do witli what you had learned that afternoon in
Michener's office?
Mr. Inzer. Yes ; it did. That afternoon in Michener's office started
me to uncovering all of the evidence that I could against these people,
and I worked on that until the time I resigned to head the committee.
Mr. ALvtthews. Did you stay in the presidency of your local for
62626 — 41— vol. 14 2.5
8544 UN-AMERICAJs PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
the reason that you woukl be able best to combat subversive influences
from an official position in the union?
Mr. Inzer. Yes; I did. I tried to inform my rank and file members
of the local as to what was goino- on in our reoional office and I tried to
get the cooperation of the other locals during that year, to eliminate
these people with their ideas and connections.
We tried to do that without couiing out in the open with it. We
tried to do it among ourselves but it seemed to be an impossible task,
so that led up to my resignation.
Mr. Matthews. That is, you eventually came to believe that a rank
and file movement of an unofficial character would be the best means
of combating these influences, is that right, in the C. I. O. ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Are you entirelv committed to the best inteiests, as
you understand tliem, of the C. I. 6. organizations?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthew^s. You would like to see the C. I. O. become a more
effective instrument of collective bargaining?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is right. I am absolutely for organized
labor and I am for the C. I. O. I believe in the C. 1. O. 100 percent,
but I do believe that it should be controlled by American leaders and
not l^y men wdio are racketeers and members of subversive groups.
Mr. VooRHis. I liave a couple of questions that fii perfectly at this
point, if I may ask them.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead.
Mr. VooRHis. Mr. Inzer, in your opinion, what happens to legiti-
mate labor grievances — I mean atteuipts to correct things that are
really wrong and should be improved and corrected — what happens
to attempts to make such corrections in legitimate demands when
the claim can be made by the employer and can be made to stick,
"There are Connnunists or Nazis representing or influencing the
union that is making the demand"?
Mr. Inzer. Well, that is very damaging to the organized laboring
group, because the men who are trying to negotiate these grievances,
if they are members of the Communist Party or the German-Ameri-
can Bund or any other group that is not American, they have that
fear that the company will point out that they are members, so
therefore they can't force the negotiations for the members as they
could if they were American people.
Mr. VooRHis. And suppose the company does point out that fact,
what happens to the cause of the men in the eye of the public?
Mr. Inzer. Well, when that is pointed out it is very injurious to
the members who are Americans in the labor movement, and it also
gives them a black eye the same as it does these people who are
members of the Communist Party.
Mr. VooRHis. In other words, the elimination of Communist lead-
ershi]) wdierever it exists, would put the men in a much better posi-
tion from the standpoint of receiving consideration for their legiti-
mate demands, is that correct?
Mr. Inzer. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. VooRHis. Now, on the other hand, suppose the organization
IS clean of any such leadership, then don't you have a better chance
of getting ahead?
rx-A^rEuicAN ru( >rA(;ANi)A activities 8545
Mr. Tnzkh. I Avould sny wo would have a bettor cliaiico, because
wlioii llie iK'opIo iu'<i()tiatin<i- for the union would <io into the uuin-
agement. they would luive nothiuj; to fear as to what the niauage-
inent could turn around" aiul accuse theui of, because they have a clean
slate and the ne<zotiatino; with the nianaoenient would be a i)erfect
set-up.
Ml-. VooRHis. That is right. Now here is one thing that will be
said by certain people — they will say, "Well, charges will be made
against any union anyway by the merchants' and manufacturers'
associations." which you no doubt are familiar with — they will say
that they will make charges anyhow, that this is a Communist strike.
Do you believe that it makes a ditference if they make such charges
whether the charges are true or not?
Mr. Inzer. It certainly does make a ditference, because if the
charges are not true — in other words, if I am accused of being a
Connnunist when I am not, T am not goin.g to sit back and say,
"Well, that is the merchants and manufacturers or that is the Dies
committee, and I don't believe what they say." If they accuse me
of being a Comnmnist I am going to have them prove that I am a
Connnunist.
Mr. \\x)RHis. In other words, even though some groups that rep-
resent a reactionary industrial interest may attempt to make charges,
but the real question is whether they are going to be able to make
them stick, and if they are not going to be able to make them stick,
30U are in a lot better position than you would be if there were an}'
truth to it.
Mr. Inzer. That is right. If charges were made by the mer-
chants and manufacturers or any other organization against the
leaders of the C. I. O. and if they were not Comnnniists, it is very
easy to prove to the public that they are not.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all. Dr. ]Matthews.
Mr. ^Matthews. How long liave you known Lew Michener?
Mr. Inzer. I have known Lew ]Michoner for about 3 years.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever discussed the Communist Party
with IMichener?
Mv. Inzer. Yes: I have many times.
Mr. Matthews. What lune boon the nature of your discussions of
the Communist Party Avith Michenor?
Mr. Inzer. Well, since this meeting and other occurrences, there
would bo times that he would come into my local and make inter-
national reports, but before he got through he would be attacking
the President of the Linited States and the Dies committee, and the
F. P. I. and come right on doAvn to myself.
In other words, before he got out of the building he would be
insulting me, and that was for no other reason than I would not
cooperate with him under the Communist set-up, and I would go to
liim and accuse him of being a member of the Comminiist Party and
ask him why he didn't stay away from it and organize tlio unorgan-
ized into the C. I. O. and make it an American group of worker^.
He would laugh it off or say: "Oh. don't believe the Dies commit-
tee,"' or "That is some more of the management's proi)aganda.'"
And at no time would he ever state that he was not a member of
the Comnumi.st Party.
8546 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever discuss with Michener any set-backs
which occurred in the C. I. O. organization drives as a result of the
Communist taint upon his organization?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. With reference to any particular plants or organ-
ization drives?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what they were?
Mr. Inzer. Well, they were trying to organize the North American
Aircraft in Los Angeles, and my local being a General Motor local
and North American being connected with the General Motors Cor-
poration, they called on the executive board of my local to do what
they could to help out.
We would go out every evening and contact the men as they were
coming in and going onto the night shift. They would tell myself
and the rest of the executive board of Local 216 that they did not
want to join the C. I. O. because the leaders were Communists.
They would tell us that the leaders of the C. I. O. were right out
there trying to organize them and they were Communists themselves
and putting out Communist literature at the gates
;Mr. Starnes. That is the rank and file of the workingmen in
the plant told you that, when you were going to them and asking
them to join the C. I. O. ?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And organize so you could better your conditions
and so forth?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And they would give you that reply?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. That the other leaders out there were distributing
Communist literature and soliciting memberships in the Communist
Party at the same time?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did j^ou ever raise that issue on the floor of the
sessions of the Auto Council ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. And what did you have to say about the question
on the floor of the Auto Council ?
Mr. Inzer. After the first Labor Board election at North Ameri-
can, the majority was not given to anyone. In other words, the vote
was so close between the American Federation of Labor and the
C. I. O. that they had to have another election. Immediately after
that first election the regional office called a special meeting of the
Auto Council to discuss means of organizing for the second Labor
Board election, and at that time one of the members of the U. A. W.
got up on the floor and stated that he met a man down in Los Angeles
who he had worked with, that was now an officer of the American
Federation of Labor, and he asked him how the A. F. of L. caused
them from getting the majority of the votes. This man told the
IT. A. W.-C. I. O. workers did that themselves by having Communists
out there trying to organize the North American workers into the
C. I. O., and he said that he would like to have a statement from the
regional office as to that statement.
UN-A.MEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8547
Upon that Wyndhani Mortimor took the floor, and he again passed
the buck by sa^dng ''that is some more of your company stooges and
don't pay any attention to what the Dies committee says; the Dies
committee doesn't know the difference between unionism and rheu-
matism,'' and a bunch of hooey like that, and set down.
Immediately I took the floor and told Lew JSIichener and Wyndham
jMortimer that they had been accused of belonging to the Communist
Party, and that I believed they were members, and I would like to have
a statement from them at that time so that I could go back and tell
these workers that had told me they were Communists, that they were
not Communists or members of the party. They refused to make a
statement.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about a California law firm
by the name of Gallagher, Wirin & Johnson ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. Matthews. What connection has there been between the law
firm of Gallagher, Wirin & Johnson and the U. A. W. locals in
California?
Mr. Inzer. Most of the U. A. W. locals in California are affiliated
with that law firm. In other words, we are paying them so much per
month to look out for our interests.
Mr. VooRHis. You say that most locals are?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; there are one or two of the U. A. W. that would
not affiliate with the attorneys.
Mr. VooRHis. Which ones?
Mr. Inzer. Studebaker for one.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't know of any others?
Mr. Inzer. No ; I can't say any others right now.
Mr. VooRHis. Why didn't they hire this firm?
Mr. Inzer. For the simple reason that the officers of the Stude-
baker local knew at that time that they were connected with and one
member of them was a Communist, and they would not affiliate with
them.
Mr. VooRHis. There is a witness here from the Studebaker local
who will testify directly on that point.
Mr. ISIatthews. Do you know whether or not Leo Gallagher, the
head of the firm of Gallagher, Wirin & Johnson, has run for public
office on the Communist ticket in California?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; he ran on the Communist ticket for State secre-
tary and pulled a vote of about 150,000.
Mr. Matthews. Did anyone in the C. I. O.
Mr. Voorhis. Just a moment ; I would like to say a word about Cali-
fornia at that point. In that election where he got 150,000 votes, what
other candidates were in the field?
Mr. Inzer. I couldn't answer that.
Mr. Voorhis. Well, I think it should be explained. There was only
one other candidate who had won both the Republican and Democratic
nominations; the only opportunity a person had if they wanted to
vote against that man who had both major party nominations was to
vote for Gallagher, which explains to some degree why he got all the
votes he did.
Mr. Inzer. I know all the votes he got were not from the Communist
Party — they were from other j^eople.
8548 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. I wonder if my colleague would like to qualify the
question about California's rainfall ?
Mr. VooRiiis. I would like to say if this part of the country had as
much rain as California it would be better oif.
IMr. Matthews. Do you know who it was in the C. I. O. organization
that recommended the locals retain the firm of Gallagher, Wirin, and
Johnson ?
Mr. Inzer. Each U. A. W. local and I believe all C. I. O. locals were
asked to affiliate — I am not positive of that, but I know the longshore-
men are in it. Each local received a communication from Lew Mich-
ener's office asking us to affiliate with this law firm and telling us what
protection we would have, and after that Johnson of Gallagher, Wirin,
& Johnson came out to our executive-board meeting and made a talk
about the law firm and what protection we would have if we affiliated
with them and after he had finished I took the flt)or and spoke against
the affiliation, pointing out to the executive board that there was at
least one member of this firm who was a member of the Connnunist
Party.
Mr. Starnes. When you speak of affiliation, Mr. Inzer, you mean,
of course, that the unions had retained this firm to represent them —
that is what you mean ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; that is what I mean.
Mr. Matthews. And what did the local do after Johnson made his
speech and you made your speech?
Mr. Inzer. Well, it was recommended to the rank and file of our
local that we affiliate with this law firm and that Johnson be at the
next regular meeting to explain to the rank and file just what protec-
tion we would have. He was there and at that time, at the first of the
meeting, he asked for a $60 retainer fee and there was quite some dis-
turbance or restlessness among the members so he cut it down to $50.
Mr. Matthews. You mean $50 a month ?
Mr. Inzer. Fifty dollars a month, and at that time the rank and file
voted to accept these attorneys as our law firm.
Mr. JVIatthews. Do you know whether or not Gallagher and Lew
Michener are closely associated with each other?
Mr. Inzer, Yes, sir ; I do know it.
Mr, Matthews. What are the facts, of your own knowledge, on that
point?
Mr, Inzer. Well, the first point is that they have a law office right
in the C. I. O. Building and the second point, that any social gather-
ing that we held at the C. I. O. Building or at the San Diego con-
vention, you would see Lew Michener and Johnson and Al Wirin.
In other words, they were very closely associated and hung out
together at these gatherings.
Mr, Matthews. Is that spelled W-i-r-i-n ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr, Matthews. And his first name is Abraham Lincoln?
Mr. Inzer. He is known as ''Al," and "A. L." stands for Abraham
Lincoln; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. In your position as president of Local 216, have
you ever had personal contacts with Wyndham Mortimer?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. Matthews. Frequently?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8549
Mr. Inzpir. Well, for awhilo; yes. He used to come out to our
meetin<is and we would have an issue on the floor thtit was pertainmg
to the rank and file of the local only, and he would, if he saw that
it was some issue that was important to the Comnumist Party, he
would ^ot in and argue for it, so finally he came out and wanted to
take the floor on some point that was brought up and I refused to
let him have the floor. In other words, I barred him from the meet-
iuiTs and we passed a motion that before anyone other than the
regional director could come. out to the meetings, they must get per-
mission from the executive board; so he was barred from the meet-
ings because he would come out and try to confuse the issue and put
over the Communist policy.
]\Ir. ^VIati'hews. Did you ever discuss the Communist Party with
Mortimer ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes. sir; I have a number of times.
Mr. Matthews. Will you state briefly the nature of those conver-
sations?
Mr. Inzer. AVell, I would tell him that, after some meeting where
he had spoken or something, I would tell him that he was trying
to put over the Connnunist Party policies in the C. I. O. movement,
and I thought he should refrain from that and stick to organizing
the C. I. O. He would make the remark, "Oh, that is the thoughts
of the Dies committee," or, "the management." or ''the F. B. I.," and
""don't pay any attention to them, they will use all those means to
tear down the ones who are trying to get you good working condi-
tions and raises in pay and so on." He would just pass it off.
Mr. Matthews. Did you attend the annual convention of the
United Automobile Workers in St Louis in 1940?
Mr Inzer. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Were you a delegate?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matihews. From your local ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. Did you meet Wyndham Mortimer at that con-
vention ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Mortimer showed any
tendencies to associate witli any special group at the St. Louis con-
vention of the United Automobile Workers?
Mr. Inzer. Yes. sir. If you were not a Communist he would not
speak to you ; and why I say that is, there was a man from Detroit by
the name of John Anderson, who got up on the floor and stated he
was "a comrade and proud of it," and "if the United States had the
unions that they have in Russia the workers of the United States
would i)e much better off," and he and Wyndham Mortimer were to-
gether at all times — sat together in the convention, ate together in the
restaurant, and when I went to bed at night they were still together.
Mr. Matthews. Anderson's speech on the floor of the convention in
which he declared he was a Communist, was carried in the press, was
it not ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes. sir; it was.
Mr. Starnes. That is the same Wyndham Mortimer, Dr. Mat-
thews, that Earl Browder in reply to questions here, 2 years ago, pro-
8550 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
pounded by members of this committee, stated that if he was not a
Communist that "he was a very close friend of the Communists."
That is the same Wyndham Mortimer, is it not?
Mr. JMatthews. As 1 lecall the exact hinguage. Congressman
Starnes, 3'ou asked Mr. Browder if Wyndham Mortimer \A'as a member
of the Communist Party and Earl Browder replied : "I don't know
that he is, but at least he is very close to us."
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to ask one question : Did you say that
Wvndham Mortimer was denied admission to a meeting of your
local?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I did say that, by action of the local; yes, sir.
Mr. VooKHis. And the reason they took that action was they be-
lieved his speeches and so on confused the issues and points that they
were trying to discuss that had to do with the actual problems they
faced, is that true ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. I am not sure whether he was denied admission to
the local or denied the right to the floor.
Mr. VooRHis. Which was it ?
Mr. Inzer. It means the same thing. In other words, if he were to
come to the meeting without first asking permission of the executive
board, if he came to the meeting he would be allowed to sit in, yes, sir;
but not allowed to have a voice, but he wouldn't come out unless he
could have a voice.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Inzer, were you a member of the District
Council No. 5 of the United Automobile Workers during the year
1940?
Mr. Inzer, Yes, sir ; I was.
Mr. Matthews. Were you also a member of the Los Angeles In-
dustrial Union Council in 1940?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. Matthews. Is the Los Angeles Industrial Union Council the
body which brings together or federates all of the C. I. O. locals in all
unions in Los Angles?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr, Matthews. In other words, it is the central labor bodv of the
C. I. O. unions?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Was it your experience after attending the meetings
of District Council No. 5 of the U. A. W. and the Los Angeles Indus-
trial Union Council in 1940, that those bodies were controlled by
the Communist Party?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; that is true.
Mr. Matthews. Now, will you please give some evidence for your
answer ?
Mr, Inzer. The reason I say that is because
Mr. Matthews. Why did you gain that impression ?
Mr. Inzer. The reason I gained that impi-ession is this: Every
known Communist or everyone in the U. A. W. or C. I. O. that has
been pointed out as a Communist on the west coast or in California
always manages to get themselves on as delegates to these councils,
and they aie always present — they never miss a meeting — they are
always right there.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8551
Mr. Matthews. Were you ever nominated for a position in the
auto council ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; I was nominated for the chairmanship of the
auto council.
Mr. Matthews. Now, what territory does the auto council — is
that district No. 5?
Mr. Inzer. That is district No. 5. That was the auto workers in
and around Los Ani^eles.
Mr. Matthews. Those members in and around Los Angeles?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
]VIr. Matthews. You were nominated by whom?
Mr. Inzer. I was nominated by Noah Taucher.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Taucher, as he is
called, is a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Inzer. I don't believe he is a member; I believe he is just a
fellow-traveler.
Mr. Matthews. He nominated you for the office of president of
the C. I. O.-LT. A. W. Council, is that correct?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Now. will you please tell what happened after he
had nominated you for the presidency?
Mr. Inzer. Well, we had the meetings there once a month and at
that meeting where I was nominated, the nominations were open for
officers of the council, and Taucher nominated me.
Immediately after the meeting — the nominations were left open
until the next meeting and then they would have more nominations
and the elections. After I was nominated and after the meeting
adjourned, he and Lew Michener both came to me and asked me
if I would not accept the nomination because, he pointed out, that he
had so much to do that he couldn't possibly accept it another term
and they felt that I was the man for the job because they needed my
cooperation and so on. I promised I would accept it.
Mv. Maithews. Were you head of the largest local of the U. A. W.
at that time?
Mr. Inzer. That is right. I was president of the largest local on
the coast.
Mr. VooRHis. AYlien did that take place?
Mr. Matthews. I was just going to ask that.
Mr. Inzer. That took place right after the meeting I had with the
regional director in May, around the 10th of May.
Mr. Voorhis. 1940?
Mr. Inzer. That is right. It was next Sunday after the 8(h.
^Ir. Matthews. They both asked you to take this position and you
agreed to take it. Then what happened?
Mr. Inzer. Well, at the next meeting there was a resolution sent
in by my local — I forget just what it was now, but it had something
to do with the Communist movement in the C. I. O., and before the
nominations were oj^ened this came on the floor and I got up and
spoke on it. In other words, I spoke against the movement to bring
the Communists into the council and my doing so caused Noah
Taucher to be nominated for the presidency of the council and after
we recessed for the election — ^lie accepted and I accej)ted, and after
the recess for the election and we went back in he was elected by —
he got 65 votes and I believe I got 16.
3552 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ArTIVITIES
He was put back in office the second time.
Mr. Matthews. In other words, an hour or so before you had
spoken against the Communists on the floor of the council
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Your presidency was acceptable to Taucher and
Michener '*
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. But after you had spoken they opposed you?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; but I would like to say something. That
shows there was a little dirty work there. The Chair at that time —
Taucher did not take the chair, so they elected a temporary chair-
man and I was nominated and there were three or four more nomi-
nated and it was brought down to myself and one other man, and
they sent us out of the room to take a vote on which one would be
the chairman. We tied. In other words, between the — I will say
75 people there or whatever it was, I got half and the other fellow
got half for the temporary chairmanship, so we tossed a coin to see
who would take the chair and the other man took the chair, and at
that time I will say I received about 45 votes and one hour later
after I had opposed this group I got 16 votes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Slim Connolly is
connected with the Auto Council?
Mr. Inzer. He is not connected with the Auto Council.
Mr. Matthews. Is he connected with the C. I. O. council?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; he is connected with the C. I. O. council —
district council.
Mr. Matthews. What is his position in the C. I. O. council ?
Mr. Inzer. He is ])resident of the C. I. O. council.
Mr. Matthews. Does he preside at the meetings of the council?
Mr. Inzer. Well, now, the council that I attended is district council
and of the district council he is the secretary to the council and he does
not take the chair there. He is the secretary, but whoever has the
chair ttikes their orders from Slim Connolly. If he doesn't want a man
to have the floor he will nudge the chairman and the chairman will
ignore the man that has his hand up.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Slim Connolly or Philip M. Con-
nolly which, I believe, is his correct name?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know that he is one of the national officers
of the American Peace Mol)ilization?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; he is one of the officers of the American Peace
Mobilization.
Mr. Matthews. Have you come in contact with the American Peace
Mobilization in California?
Mr. Inzer. I see their literature and see them working around the
C. I. O. building but I have never come directly in contact with them
in my local. We don't allow them out there.
Mr. Matthev/s. Is your committee, the Vigilant American Commit-
tee, aware of any ])articular connections with the American Peace
Mobilization — liave you taken any position on that organization?
Mr. Inzer. AVell, we know that the American Peace INIobilization is
a Communist Party outfit and we know that they are working through
the C. I. O. building and we know that Connolly and Michener and
rX-A.MKUlCAN I'intI'A(;AM)A ACTIVITIES 8553
IVIortiinei' aiul t\\v wliolc bmicli of officers there are connected with this
conunittee.
]\lr. Matthews. Have you ever heard Connolly discuss the national-
defense pro<>Tam in council nieetinos?
Mr. Tx/.KR. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. ^lATTiiinvs. And what have you heard him say at council
nieetiniis?
Mr. Inzer. I have heard him state that the President, tlie Conp-ess,
the F. B. 1.. the Dies committee, and all of the officials in Washin<2:t(>n
were usino- the national-defense program to tear down organized
labor.
Ml-. VooRHis. Did he include President Roosevelt?
Mi\ Tn/.kk. Yes. sir: absolutely.
Ml'. Maithews. Did you ever hear him discuss the question of
strikes i
Mr. Inzer. Yes. sir; I haA'e. At one particular meeting I went to
of the council, lie was giving his report and in that report he stated
that "we now have 12 strikes." I believe it was, "in the Los Angeles
area and as soon as these strikes are settled we must get down to
the fine point of organizing and get ready for bigger and better
strikes."
]Mr. Matthews. He stated that at the meeting of the council?
Mr. Inzer. That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. MATTm:ws. "WHiat did you understand him to mean l^y that —
that they would pull a general strike after they had had strikes in
the individual plants — pull a general strike, have a "bigger and bet-
ter strike" that way?
Mr. Inzer. Well, what I gathered from that was this: That the
Communist Party in the C. I. O. is using this strike clause to dis-
turb the workers and poison the minds of the workers against the
officials in "Washington and against the management, and by doing
so then at any time they want to call a Nation-wide or a coast-wide
they will have the men all set to pull a strike, by trying to organize
or negotiate with some management of a plant where the demands
would be so strenuous or so great that the company couldn't possibly
accept them and, therefore, pull that plant out and through a syni-
{)athy strike they would ask all tlie other locals to go out.
Mr. Starnes. Did you further understand that was for the pur-
pose of slowing down the national-defense effort and to prevent this
Xation from arnniig for security's sake?
Mr. Inzer. That is exactly the way I understand it.
Mr. Starnes. And you gathered that from his continued conver-
sations, his speeches, and the attitude of this man and other Com-
muni.sts who have positions of power in the labor movement on the
west coast ?
Mr. Inzer. That is connect. I liave never heard one of the offi-
cials mentioned yet. get u]) and make a speecli but what they, in that
speech, brought in the President of the United States and CongTess
and the Dies committee and the F. B. I. They bring tliem in every
tiirte the}' take the floor. They bring them in to try to poison the
minds of the workers against our President and Government.
Mr. Starnes. And d(j they say they are against the foreign policy
of the Government and that the Nation should not arm for defense ?
8554 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Inzer. They do, arid they say that if they should arm they
should keep everything that is made for defense here in the United
States.
Mr. Starxes. They are opposed, in other words, to sending any aid
to Britain or the embattled democracies elsewhere?
Mr. Inzer. Absolutely.
Mr. Starnes. And is it your considered judgment, in view of your
long connections with the labor movement there on the west coast and
your official position and your contacts, that that is the ])urpose of
Michener and Mortimer and Pettis Perry and Hans Diebel and others
who are active out there in these strikes and who are in positions of
prominence and in positions where they can do injury, both to labor
and to our Government?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; I do. I believe it is their aim to do everything
possible to prevent us from sending aid to Britain or any other place.
In other words, they don't want any aid to go out — they want to try
to stop it.
Mr. Starnes. And they have expressed no real interest to rearm
our own Nation for defense?
Mr. Inzer. I know it to be a fact they don't have any interest along
those lines.
Mr. VooRHis. Have you heard anybody say that ? I mean have you
heard anybody in a meeting make a speech in which he opposed the
defense of the United States as such?
Mr. Inzer. They have spoken; yes, sir; and put literature out as
to the preparation for war and, in other words, they state through
their literature and everything that they do not want to send any aid
to Britain or any other country.
Mr. Starnes. I will ask you this, Mr. Inzer : Don't they refer to our
national effort today as "a preparation for an imperialist war," and
"they are opposed to an imperialist war"?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Isn't that their attitude?
Mr. Inzer. Exactly.
Mr. Starnes. And isn't it a fact they have fought step by step the
efforts of the President of the United States and the Congress and
the people of the United States, to provide security for this Nation, on
the ground that it was merely preparing the Nation to enter "an
imperialist war"?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you have s])oken about this Communist influ-
ence or control in the C. I. O. Council in Los Angeles. Do you know
whether or not the council has coo])erated from time to time with
various front organizations of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; I know that they have.
Mr. Matthews. With, for example, the National Negro Congress?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The International Workers Order?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The International Labor Defense?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. The Workers Alliance?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8555
]SIr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matoiews. Do you know anything about the organization of
Labors' Non-Partisan League in Los Angeles?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I do.
]Mr. Matthews. What is your judgment about the control of that
organization?
Mr. Inzer. Well, I know for a fact that that is controlled by the
Connnunist Party because the president of Labors' Non-Partisan
League is a known Communist. His name is Lou Goldblatt.
Mr. Matthews. That is spelled L-o-u G-o-l-d-b-l-a-t-t?
Mr. Inzer. That is right.
Mr. JNIatthews. And he is president of Labors' Non-Partisan
League ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; and he is also the secretary to the State C. I. O.
Mr. Matthews. And he is a known Communist Party membei-?
Mv. Inzer. Yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he was formerly on
the State ceaitral committee of the Communist Party, as a matter of
public record?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. He is a close associate of Harry Bridges, is he not?
Mr. Inzer. He is one of his right-hand men.
Mr. Starnes. I want to ask you this general question — of course,
I know it is true but I want this expression from you: Don't you
find it a fact that the great rank and file of your C. I. O. out there
on the west coast, as well as all the working men and women, that is,
the great majority of them, don't you find that they believe in ade-
quate defense and that they are willing to cooperate with the Presi-
dent and the Congress of the United States in providing absolute
security for this Nation against attack from any source ?
Mr. Inzer. Absolutely. I certainly do, because, as I say, we have
1,800 men in my local and our local endorsed President Roosevelt
unanimously and they are absolutely in accord with national de-
fense ; and I will say that 99 percent of the C. I. O. members are in
accord with national defense.
Mr. vStarnes. Don't you feel that labor really has a greater stake
in retaining democracy in this country than most any other group?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I certainly do.
Mr. VooRiiis. As a matter of "fact, isn't it true that the sentiment
you just described as being the opinion of the rank and file of the
workers in the C. I. O., that that sentiment was so strong that it pre-
vented the passage of certain types of resolutions during the time
of tlie last national election, which this other group wanted to get
through and that they were never able to get them through; isn't
that true?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; that is true.
Mr. VooRHis. There was a long battle there in their effort to put
such resolutions over?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir.
Mr. M.^tthews. Now, after you resigned from the presidency of
Local 216 this year, did you have any further contacts with Lew
Michener ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir ; I did.
8556 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Did he call on you at your home on April 7, 1941 ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please describe what happened at the
time of Michener's visit to your home on April 7, 1941 ?
Mr. Inzer. On April 7, 1941, that was a Monday and we always
hold our executive board meetings on Monday, so about — I will say
8 : 15, my door bell rang and I went to the door and it was Lew
Michener and he asked me if I was alone. I told him ''No," that I
had company. He wanted to know if he could come in. I told him
"Yes,"' to come in. So he did.
Well, this was in the presence of two other men. One man's name
was Brother Franklin, who is here, and the other man I don't care
to mention his name because since that occurrence his wife has been
threatened, as well as himself, and he does not care to have his name
exposed.
But these two men were present and Lew Michener came in and he
wanted to know if I was going to the executive board meeting. I
told him "No," that I would not go as I was no longer chairman.
He wanted to know when I was going ''to forget about this Vigilant
American Committee and come back and help them organize the
unorganized."
I told him that as soon as he could prove to me that none of the
lenders down there were members of the Communist Party or working
with the Conununist Party that I would "forget about the commit-
tee and come back and work with them."
So he went ahead to point out that it was very urgent that I should
come back because I was well qualified to help organize the unor-
ganized and they needed me; and he went on and on and so he also
also spoke to Brother Franklin and told him that if he would come
back and "forget about the committee," that he would see he went
back to work in San Pedro as a longslioreman and "the trouble he had
had down there with the labor officials would be forgotten, the record
would be clean;" and they wanted us to come back and he said he
would assure us, if we would come back, that Franklin and myself
both woidd be given a good job with the International.
I told him at that time that I was not interested because I would
not be able to go back in and work with people who were teaching
the workers the policies of the Communist Party. So at that point
he got up and started to leave my house and he got kind of sarcastic
and he said : "Well, I know what you are out for." He said, "You are
c>ut for the money," and he say, "If that is what you want," he says,
"I will get you $500 and I will get Franklin $500 right now," so at
that point I became quite angry and I attempted to smash him, but
there was a coffee table in the way and he fell over that and Brother
Franklin took him out the door and the other gentleman that was
there got between me and the door, and he left at that point.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Roy Donnelly?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. Matthews. Who is he?
Mr. Inzer. He is a longshoreman ; he is a member of Local 113 in
San Pedro.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever discussed a Nation-wide strike with
Donnelly?
UN-AMEUICAX I'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8557
Mr. Inzkk. I have not myself, but a I'rieiid of niiiio cliHcussetl it with
liim, or they were talking; of a Nation-wide strike or coast-wide strike
and at tliat time this same friend that was present at my house that
T can't mention the name, told Koy Donnelly that if such a strike was
calleil that the Navy would be c;dled out to take charj>;e and Roy
Donnelly made the statement at that time that if the Navy were
called out that they would never leave San Pedro — that the long-
shoremen would take care of that.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I think perhaps I may say at this
point that the perscm whose name the witness is not mentioning, had
intended to come here and be present today but had received threats,
his wife had received threats and he preferred not to come as a
witness.
Mr. Staknes. You mean after he had been subpenaed as a witness
to ai)pear before the connnittee
Mr. Matthews. These witnesses are voluntary witnesses — they were
not subpenaed, as I understand the situation.
Mr. Starnes. Is it your opinion based upon your o\vn union mem-
bership, your own experience as a union official and with your con-
tacts with labor men and officials in the coast area generally, the
west-coast area, that the Connnunists who are, unfortunately, within
the labor movement are acting in concert to sabotage our defense
efforts, to slow down our tlefense efforts by promoting unrest, discord,
and dissatisfaction wherever they can do so, and furthermore that
they are willing to work and are working at the present time with
Hans Diebel and any other bundist or German sympathizer toward
the same end. namely, to pi-oduce dissatisfaction and unrest; promote
strikes and discord in an effort to slow down our defense program
or to sabotage our defense program.
Mr. Inzer. I would say that the German-American bundmen, the
Conmmnist Party, the Trotsky ites and all of them at this time are
working hand in hand.
Mr. Starnes. On the west coast?
Mr. Inzer. That is right ; they are working hand in hand at this
time, working right together.
Mr. VooRHis. i would like to ask a couple of questions.
Mr. Starnes. Have you completed with Mr, Inzer, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthew\s. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed, Mr. Voorhis.
Mr, VooRHis. I want to ask the witness about Labors' Non-Partisan
League. How long has it been organized out there in Los Angeles
County?
Mr. Inzer. I belive that was organized in 1938, but I am not
positive about that. I believe it was organized in 1938.
Mr. Vtxmiiis. Well, at first what was your opinion on it — what
w^as you oi)ini()n of it in the beginning?
Mr. Inzer. When it was first organized I was for it. I really
thought it was a good thing and I think yet Labors' Non-Partisan
I^eague is a good set-up if it run by the right people. In other
words, if they kept the subversive groups out of it.
Mr. Voorhis. I was for it too in the beginning. I mean I tried
to help it out. When do you think that this other control, the Com-
munist control that you mentioned, took it over?
g558 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Inzer. I would say so far back as 1939 — the first part of 1940
anyway.
Mr. VooEHis. I think yoii are probably right. But isn't this an-
other instance where there was an agency that could have been a
bona fide attempt to try to represent on a political front the legiti-
mate interests of rank and file people but now that the chance of
doing that has been pretty well wrecked ?
Mr. Inzer. That is absolutely true. I have known of delegates
from the Labors' Non-Partisan League to go to Sacramento to try
to interview the Governor on different points and he would refuse
to see them because he knew those men out there waiting for him
Avere members of the Communist Party down there pretending to
be there protecting the interests of labor.
Mr. Starnes. Is the Governor of California a reactionary?
Mr. Inzer. Well, I wouldn't say so.
Mr. VooRHis. Isn't the Governor a pretty progressive sort of
man ?
Mr. Inzer. Yes, sir; he is that.
]\Ir. VooRHis. The reason I ask that question is because I think
the Governor has a pretty consistent progressive and prolabor record,
and I think for him to take that attitude is all the more significant
for that reason.
Mr. Starnes. Any more questions, Mr. Voorhis?
Mr. Voorhis. No ; I think that is all.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Mason?
Mr. Mason. No questions.
Mr. Starnes. If there are no further questions, the committee
will stand adjourned until 1 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 11:50 o'clock the committee adjourned until 1
p. m., the same day.)
afternoon session
The committee met at 1 p. m., Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman) pre-
siding.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will resume its hearings.
Whom will you have. Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. Richard K. Franklin.
TESTIMONY OF KICHARD K. FRANKLIN, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand, Mr.
Franklin ? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give
before this investigation will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Franklin. I do.
Mr. Starnes. You may be seated, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Will you give your full name?
Mr. Franklin. Richard Kenneth Franklin.
Mr. Matthews. Where do you live, Mr. Franklin ?
Mr. Franklin. Los Angeles, 1108 South New Hampshire Avenue.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born?
Mr. Franklin. In Los Angeles.
Mr. Matthews. When?
UN-AMEKICAN rROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8559
Mr. Frankon. 1012, July 11.
Mr. Matthews. Will you give a brief outline of the jobs or posi-
tions which you have held?
Mr. Franklix. "Well, I haven't held overly many jobs. The first
job as a wage earner I had was with the Sterling Meat Co. I -svent
to work there about 1935 and we had an A. F. of L. union and we
became embroiled in some difficulties and we went out on strike and
we lost our jobs and then I went to Mork at the Globe Milling Co.
and worked
^Ir. Matthews. You say you lost your job at the Sterling Meat Co.
because you went out on strike?
]Mr. Fraxklix. A great many of us did.
Mr. ^Iatthews. Then you went to work for the Globe Milling Co. ?
Mr. Fraxklix. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And how long did you work there?
Mr. Fraxklix. I worked off and on until 1940.
Mr. Matthew^s. Have you ever worked as a longshoreman?
Mr. Frax'klix. Yes. "\Ye belonged to the liiternational Long-
shoremen and Warehousemen's Union. Milling work is seasonal and
such times when we were off we worked out of the hiring hall — we
worked out of the hiring hall either in San Pedro, W^ilmington, or
Los Angeles.
Mr. Matthews. Did you join the union at the Globe Milling Co.?
Mr. Fraxklix. Yes, sir; I joined first the Teamsters Union and
then we switched to the I. L. W. U. because we believed it afforded
better benefits to the workers.
Mr. Matthews. Are you at the present time a member of the
International Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union?
Mr. Fraxklix. Xo ; I am not.
Mr. ^Latthews. Why are you not ?
Mr. Fraxklix. Because I was suspended and later expelled.
Mr. Matthews. AYhat were the charges against you I
Mr. Fraxklix. Well, 'T was engaging in activities detrimental to the
welfare of the union." That was the particular charge. I was sus-
pended without a hearing at a general membership meeting. The con-
stitution of the I. L. W. U. on the Pacific coast now provides that a
member can be suspended and expelled without a public hearing if he
speaks in any manner against any official or officer of the union.
Mr. Matthew^s. And what were your activities in which you were
actually engaged?
Mr. Fraxklix. Anticommunistic activities solely.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a member of the Vigilant American
Committee?
]Mr. Frax'klin. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matthews. Of which Mr. Inzer is the chairman ?
Mr. Fraxklix^ Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you hear Mr. Inzer's testimony this morning?
INIr. Fraxklix. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any facts which to your own personal
knowledge are in conflict with the testimony of Mr. Inzer?
Mr. Fraxklix". No.
Mr. Matthews. So far as you know the subject matter about which
he testified you can state that" Mr. Inzer's testimony was correct ?
62626— 41— vol. 14 26
8560 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Franklin. I can go further than that on almost everything
that he testified. I can verify it personally because I took the trouble
to verify it personally, and we have coordinated our ell'orts to a great
extent — a certain group of us in which he is included.
Mr. Matthews. Were you ]H-esent at the home of Mr. Inzer on April
7 of this year at the time that Mr. Lew Michener visited him?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. You heard Mr. Inzer's description of that occasion ?
Mr. Franklin. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Was his testimony correct?
Mr. Franklin. In every detail.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have anything to add to his testimony about
that occasion ?
Mr. Franklin. No ; I don't, except to say I admired Mr. Inzer very
much for being willing to get up and tell these things because of the
policy of these people to direct threats at everyone who is engaged in
any activity against them, which has caused reluctance on the part of
a great many of our members to testify against them.
Mr. Matthews. Did Lew Michenei- offer you and Mr. Inzer sums
of money if you would drop your anti-Communist work?
Mr. Franklin. He said that he could get it.
Mr. Matthews. He said he could get sums of money for you?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. he did.
Mr. Matthews. How much did he say he could get for you ?
Mr. Franklin. $500, specifically.
Mr. Matthews. And after he made that offer there was an alter-
cation between him and Mr. Inzer?
Mr. Franklin. He and Mr. Inzer became embroiled in an argu-
ment and Mr. Inzer struck him and knocked him over the coffee table
and I restrained him and took Michener to the door and put him out.
Mr. Matthew^s. And what did you say to Mr. Michener when he
left there?
Mr. Franklin. Well, I don't remember, but it wasn't very compli-
mentary.
Mr. Matthews. Now, getting back to the activities in which you
have been engaged and for which you say you were suspended and
expelled from the International Longshoremen and Warehouse-
men's Union. Have you written any pamphlets on the subject of the
subversive activities in trade unions?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; I wrote a pamphlet called "The Fifth Column
Is Here."
Mr. Matthews. And can you state briefly or elaborate upon the
theme of that pamphlet?
Mr. Franklin. Well, that pamphlet revealed just who was behind
the subversive activities in southern California, just who were the
men who were interferring with the labor union ; it names specifically
Phil Connolly and Congressman Lee Geyer here as a foi-mer mem-
ber of the Communist Party, and Don Healy and other people whom
we have proof are Communists, and I have detailed all these things.
There were four suits filed against us because of that pamphlet but
none of the suits were ever pressed in spite of the fact we wished them
pressed.
Mr. Matthews. Were these pamphlets circulated in the harbor
district ?
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §561
Mr. Franklix. CojMes of the pamphlet were sold at cost to every
union that watitecl them. The C. I. O. unions were not permitted
to take them, hut the teamsters in the San Pedro district circulated
them anyway. They bought 8,000 copies and circulated them through
the harbor local.
Mr. MA-rrHEWs. "Were yuu subjected to verbal attacks after the cir-
culation of this pamphlet?
Mr. P^RANKLix. Oh, unmercifully, I should say; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. "Were there any i)ersons in particular who en-
gaged in these verbal attacks upon you?
Mr. FRANitLix. Well, within the union there was Ralph Dawson and
Lloyd Seeliger. who are both organizers for the International Long-
shoremen and "Warehousemen's Union.
Mr. ^L\TinEws. "Will you spell the names, please?
Mr. Franklin. S-e-e-1-i-g-e-r; Lloyd Seeliger and Ralph Dawson —
D-a-w-s-o-n.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know Ralph Dawson, Mr. Franklin?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do vou know him to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Franklin. I have never seen his book or anything, but I know
he is — I am Avell aware of it.
Mr. "V^oorhis. How do you know that ?
Mr. Franklin. If you see a Methodist going to the Methodist Church
and consorting with Methodists, you can take it for granted he is a
Methodist; if he contributes money to build up the Methodist Church
you have a fair idea that he is a IVIethodist. That is the only way you
■can judge the rank and file Communists. If they contribute to build-
ing up the Communist Party and advocate the purchase of Commu-
nist literature; if he urges a imion to support the Communist cause and
support Communist measures that come on the floor of a union you can
do nothing else but assume he is a Communist.
Mr. VooRHis. Then my question would be : When did you see Ralph
Dawson do those things?
Mr. Franklix. I have never seen Ralph Dawson do anything else.
He advocated the sale of the People's World, the sale of the New
Masses — every Communist publication that came before the union, he
advocated the sale of it.
Mr. VooRHis. Now. just a minute; were you in the union meet-
ing when he did that?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Wluit union? Was it the Longshoremen and Ware-
housemen's Union ?
Mr. Franklix. Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union, Local
126. At a meeting of the local a committee was set up to further the
sale of the People's World, and Charles Pfeifer was the chairman and
was an organizer of the union — a jjaid organizer, and Ralph Dawson
was one of the members.
I might add it is very seldom any member of a union who is not a
paid oflicial engages in the activities such as that. It seems to be pres-
sure. There is pressure brought on them who are paid to do these
things, but the rank and file membership are not active at all and are
not interested in the furtherance of any communistic cause in the
Longshoremen as well as anv other C. I. O. union.
8562 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. VooRHis. Just a minute. I want to be clear on this. Your tes-
timony is that in meetings of the Longshoremen's local — that is the
Longshoremen's local of San Pedro, Calif. ; is that right ?
Mr. Franklin. Both the locals. I belonged to both of them at
different times — 113 and 126.
Mr. VooRHis. That in meetings of those locals that Ralph Dawson
was a member of a committee to promote subscriptions to the People's
World?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. VooRHis. Is that right ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
IVIr. VooRHis. And you heai'd him make speeches, did you
Mr. Franklin. In favor of the People's World, yes — oh, innumer-
able times — at almost every meeting there was someone who would get
up and invariably it was Ralph Dawson or Charlie Pfeifer, and urged
the rank and file members to give a day's pay to the People's World —
to the support of it.
Mr. Starnes. In other words he doesn't conceal the fact that he is
a sympathizer and supporter of the Communist Party program — in
fact he proclaims it?
Mr. Franklin. I have heard him and Seeliger both say to me that
the Communist Party "is the most progressive in California," when
you might say I baited them about calling themselves progressive on
the floor of the union. They will say the Communist Party, in their
estimation, is the most progressive in California.
Mr. Matthews. What is Dawson's position at the present time in
tlie C. I. O. organization ?
Mr. Franklin. He is an organizer for the Longshoremen and
Warehousemen of the Pacific coast.
Mr. Matthews. Has he been chairman of the Los Angeles Indus-
trial Union Council recently?
Mr. Franklin. He was until recently. Eugene Judd is now — just
elected.
Mr. Matthews. You mean during the past year Dawson has been
the president of the Los Angeles Industrial Council ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And at present he is an organizer for the Inter-
national Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he was an appointee
of Harry Bridges ?
Mr. Franklin. He was originally appointed by Harry Bridges and
then elected to his position in the local.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, we have the police record of Ralph
Dawson from the authorities in California; would you like to have
that in the record at this point ?
Mr. Starnes. That is the same Ralph Dawson that took an active
part in the Harvill Die Casting strike?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. Which threatened to tie up the aviation industry on
the Pacific coast ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir; that is the same Ralph Dawson and the
same Ralph Dawson who was in the Salinas fruit pickers strike.
UN-AMKRICAN rilOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8563
The record reads as follows, and I would like to ask the witness if
lie can testify as to certain points that are contained in tliis record:
F. B. I. No. 729,803 file dated July 26, 1939. First entry, arrested San Fran-
cisco May 8, 1933, for violating ordinance S33, used alias Ralph E. Olney.
Second entry, arrested Visalia November S, 1933, strike agitation and escaped
from peace officer. Sentenced to San Quentin for 3 years, sentence suspended
on condition leave State. Used alias Kalpli E. Austin. Third entry, arrested
Los Angeles July 12, 1939, assault with deadly weapon. Used present name of
Ralph Dawson.
Last arrest occurred in connection with California Milling Co. case on Los
Angeles at whicli violence occurred. According to Russell Parsons, former
assistant district attorney, subject is Harry Bridges' right-hand man. He has
been organizer at Seattle for the C. I. O. Druggist Union which is under
Bridges' domination and during 1939 was organizer for the International
Longshoremen and Warehousemeii's Associatlion. Parsons stated that on
Bridges' instructions Communist attorneys Gallagher, Wirin, and Johnson, who
represented Dawson on last arrest iigreed to plead all other defendants guilty
provided indictment against Dawson would be dropped. Have reviewed file in
district attorney's office on subject.
Regarding arrest in Visalia complaint was filed charging criminal syndicalism,
<'0unt one, alleged Ralph Au.stin (Daw-son) in custody of ofiicers J. E. Hill,
deputy sheriff of Tulare County, and Constable D. O. Howard, did willfully and
unlawfully escape custody of said ofl5cers.
Count two alleges Ralph Austin (Daw\son) on or about October 10 did
willfully and unlawfully by spoken and written words and personal conduct.
Justify, attempt to justify, advocate, teach, and aid and abet criminal syndical-
ism and the duty, necessity, and ijropriety of committing crime, sabotage, vio-
lence, and unlawful methods of terrorism as a means of changing industrial
ownership and control and seeking a political change. Strike at Visalia was led
hy Pat Chambers, Lillian Monroe, and Caroline Decker, all well-known Com-
munists.
Riot was precipitated wherein two i^ersons were killed when subject tried
to get Communist companions to come and take him away from the policemen
who liad arrested him. Austin (Dawson) pleaded guilty to escape and applied
for probation. Probation was granted, sentence suspended for 3 years under
conditions that defendant go to State of Washington with his parents to reside
during period of probation and not to return to California during probation.
Probation Officer C. T. Pools' report stated Ralph Olney Austin (Dawson)
born November 30, 1912, Spokane, Wash., parents Ralph (). and Elizabeth Austin,
7740 Thirty-third Avenue NW., Seattle. Wash. Came to San Francisco Septem-
ber 1932, studied at Shaeffer Art School until January 1933, expelled from school
because of Communist ideas after being warned. Report of San Francisco pro-
batiiMi officer states Austin (Dawson) was arrested in San Francisco for preach-
ing doctrine of communism on street corners. Fingerprints and picture available.
jNIr. Starnes. Mr. Franklin, do you know Elmer J. Freitag?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. sir.
Mr, Starnks. Who is Elmer J. Freitag?
Mr. Franklin. He is the president of the North American Air-
craft, C. I. O.
Mr. Starxes. Was he among the group who came to the committee
table here and addressed Congressman Voorhis after the committee
had recessed the morning session today?
]Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. He was present and participated in a demonstration,
if I might use that term ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. I might say that this committee opposed his
committee at North American and did everything we could to defeat
him without disrupting the local out there. We couldn't afford to
tear the whole thing apart, but we did everything we could to defeat
him.
3564 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Staenes. Did you know the otliers who participated in this
demonstration this morning- ?
Mr. Fkanklin. Just Lew Michener ; I didn't know the young fellow.
Mr. Starni s. Freitag and Lew Michener you knew '^
jNIr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. S.TARNES. And they are here in Washington now?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know anything about the ])olitical background
or record of Elmer J. Freitag*
Mr. Franklin. When he said he w^ished we would stop the gen-
eralities and get down to ])ertinent things we can do that very easily,
because Mr. Freitag is a former registered Communist and is still a
party member and it is common knowledge among certain groups
in the North American Aircraft plant that he is, and that he refused
to allow that to be publicized in the newspapers because that would
hurt them in their negotiations with the management. Otherwise
Mr. Freitag would be exposed and would not be in the position as
president of the organization.
Mv. Starnes. I want to state for the record in view of the demon-
stration that he made and his conduct during the recess that the
committee has in its possession a telegram from Mr. Stedman, the
investigator on the Pacific coast. I will read the pertinent portion
of it with reference to Mr. Freitag. It says :
Further investigations in re Elmer J. Freitag, member of strike committee at
Nortli American and now in Wasliingtou on North American negotiations, the
committee's further investigation reveals that according to record of W. M..
Kerr, registrar of voters, Los Angeles County, Freitag registered as a Communist
voter on January 8, 1!)3S.
Mr. Matthews. In that discussion which took place after the ad-
journment of the morning's hearing, did you hear Congressman Voor-
his ask Freitag if he had ever been a registered Conmuinist voter?
Mr. Frj\nklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you hear his reply ?
Mr, Franklin. Well, he said something about "You have me," or
something like that. I couldn't recall exactty what it was — there was
so much milling around here, and I was being shoved.
Mr. Matthews. Did you hear him admit it?
Mr. Franklin. He didn't deny it.
I think it should be brought out in regard to the North American
situation that Mr. Michener and other people like him back there do
not care if they get their wage increases. In fact, they would rather
not ; and the other fellow who was saying he was "a good American'*
probably is, but they wnll go back without these wage increases and
there will be dissatisfaction at the North American Aircraft plant
which wnll further the work of the Communists in recruiting members ;
it will make bitterness among the great body of workers, and their
purpose will be accomplished. So, actually, so far as Mr. Michener
is concerned, it is a gain to them, and every situation like that is a
gain to them.
Mr. Starnes. You mean that is the considered policy of the Commu-
nists in the labor movement, that they obtain positions of power and
authority in certain of our luiions and as members of negotiating com-
mittees that they will make demands and take positions impossible to
meet ?
rX-A.MKKKAN I'l{( tTAvlANDA ACTIVITIKS 8565
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Starxes. And then <2;o back to create further dissatisfaction
and unrest amon<r the workers in order to further the program of the
party in recruitino- members for the Communist Party in the various
unions (
Mr. Franklin. Well, a study of negotiations in which they are en-
gaged will reveal them invariably doing that. They bait the em-
ployer into an unreasonable attitude if everything else fails, or they
tryto make some demand wliich they don't think will be met.
'jNIr. ^'o(,)RIIIs. What do you think" of the attitude of the North Amer-
ican Aircraft ?
ISIr. Franklin. You mean in regard to their wages and things?
Mr. Voorhis. Yes.
Mr. Franklin. I think their demands are just. I think they should
be granted it. but I doubt that Mr. Michener wishes them to be granted.
That is what I am saying to you. He would like to every way
hamper the negotiations and go back and capitalize on the dissatis-
faction that will be created by the fact they are not granted.
Mr. VooRHis. Certainly; and the fact that there is representation
like that makes it more difficult?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. naturally.
]VIr. VooRHis. Makes it more difficult for an adjustment to be made
that might be favorable to the men, isn't that true?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir. That is an example of their psychology.
That little fellow there will probably go back and will be more amen-
able to suggestions that he cooperate more closely with the Com-
munists than he was when he left Los Angeles.
Mr. Matthews. Allien did you lirst become aware of the problem
of communism in the C. I. O.?
Mr. Franklin. AVell, I was engaged in a political campaign in
Los Angeles. I was manager
Mr. Matthews. AYliat year was that ?
Mr. Franklin. 1939. I was managing the councilmanic campaign
of a candidate and I was contacted by a man who said he was Al
Bryan. He said he was the director of the educational — director, I
believe it was — educational director of the Communist Party. He
otfei-ed me a bunch of material on Evan Lewis. Evan Lewis had
taken an antislum clearing stand in the council and they gave me
the information that Evan Lewis owned a house on East Twenty-fifth
Street which rented for $15 a month, which was three rooms with an
earthen floor — no floor at all in one room and no running water and
the windows were patched and boarded up. He collected $15 a
month rent for this. I used that material in the campaign.
Another fellow came out named George Willet, who was a worker
for the International Labor Defense.
They held a meeting at which they secured
Mr. ^r attiikws. Did Al Bryan tell you he was educational director
for the Conmumist Party?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. ^Matthews. And then vou were assigned the assistance of
George Willet?
]\Ii'. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Were there any other individuals whom you
learned to be Communists who were engaged in that campaign?
3566 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Franklin. Well, tliey held a meeting at Mrs. Hendrika
Beeks' house. She is a Communist Party member. Her place is at
145 East Seventy-first Street,
Mr. Matthews. How do you spell Beeks?
Mr. Franklin. B-e-e-k-s — Hendrika Beeks.
Mr. Matthews. The meeting was held at her house ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You say she is a Communist ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. How do you know she is a Communist?
Mr. Franklin. She is a registered Communist — makes no secret
of it.
Mr. Matthews. At the meeting at Mrs. Beeks' house, were you in
attendance?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet William L. Elconin at her home ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; he was an organizer for the State, County, and
Municipal Workers of America, and said that he could obtain the en-
dorsement of that organization for this candidate.
Mr. Matthews. Was he related to Mrs. Beeks in any way?
Mr. Franklin. He was her son-in-law.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet Betty Martin ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthewis. On that occasion ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And who is Betty Martin ?
Mr. Franklin. She was a woman who was sent out here from
Detroit, she said, "to unite the progressive forces under the leadership
of the Communist Party," I believe the expression was.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet Don Healy ?
Mr, Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Who is Don Healy?
Mr. Franklin. At that time he was a Los Angeles head of Labors'
Non-Partisan League. He is now head of the Construction Workers,
C. I. o.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet Adele Young?
Mr. Franklin. Yes. She is a colored woman working for the
National Negro Congress.
Mr. jNIatthews. Did you meet Hans Hansen?
Mr. Franklin. Hans' Hansen? Yes; he is the financial secretary
for Local 1500. He is still the A. F. of L. Carpenters' Union
secretary.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet Pereboon?
Mr. Franklin. Yes ; but he is not a Communist.
Mr. Matthews. He is not a Communist ?
Mr. Franklin, No ; he was there with me.
Mr. VooRHis. Where did these people meet ?
Mr. Franklin. It was at a meeting where they guaranteed they
would get the various union endorsements for the candidate.
Mr. VooRHis. What candidate?
Mr. Franklin. The councilmanic campaign — I was managing a
candidate for the council — his name was Robert Hyde.
Mr. Matthews. Now, with the exception of Pereboon, whom you
say was not a Communist •
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8567
Mr. Franklin. No; he was there with me.
Mr. Matthews. Were the other persons named — Bryan, Willet,
Beeks, Elconin, Martin, Healy, Young, and Hansen identified by you
as Comnuuiists'^
Mr. Fk AN KLIN. I was given to understand that they were by George
Willet.
Mr. Matthews. Now. was this your first discovery in an emphatic
way of the problem of Communist penetration
Air. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. JNIatthews. Into the trade-union picture in California ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; it was.
Mr. Matthews. Will you elaborate why it was that you gained that
impression at that particular time?
Mr. Franklin. Well, through their conversation and through the
fact that George Willet detailed to me that himself — he told me that
those people were Communist members along with others. He at that
time was explaining to me the power and influence of the Communist
Party and how they were gaining ground on all fronts.
He was working for the International Labor Defense and was fur-
thering the other interests of the party.
]\Ir. aIattiiews. Have you ever discussed the Communist Party with
AVilliam Elconin?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What is Elconin's position at the present time?
Mr. Franklin. He is an organizer for the United Electrical, Radio,
and Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is at the present
time engaged in any strike activities ?
Mr. Franklin. He was lately, but the strike is settled. It was at
the Columbia recording plant.
Mr. Matthews. In connection with your discussions of the Com-
munist Party with Mr. Elconin, what did he tell you ?
Mr. Franklin. He told me when he was editor of the school paper
at the California Institute of Technology, that he joined the Com-
munist Party because he believes in their objectives, or something to
t hat effect, t don't recall the exact words. It was quite a conversation ;
but he did admit to me that he was a Communist.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been at any Communist Party meet-
ings with Slim Connolly or where he was present?
Mr. Franklin. I was not at a Communist Party meeting but I was
at a meeting held under the auspices of the Communist Party, which
was by invitation. They called it — they sent out cards and incidentally
I have one of the cards — at which he spoke and he spoke as a repre-
sentative of the News Guild, I believe, the Los Angeles News Guild.
Mr. Matthews. American Newspaper Guild of Los Angeles ?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. When was that meeting?
Mr. Franklin. That was shortly after this election in 1939
Mr. Matthews. In April of 1939?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What did Connolly have to say at that meeting, do
you recall?
Mr. Franklin. Yes; he just discussed the necessity for lining
up wliat he termed "the reactionary advertising sheets of the dis-
8568 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
trict" and to the Xews Guild problems that confronted the union in
its org-jinizing activities.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know the persons Avho were in charge
of the meeting^
Mr. Franklin. Yes: there were several of them in charge of the
meeting. Betty Martin was the chairman and there were the usual
group of Communists in the south end of Los Angeles who were
present.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether George Willet is a paid
woi'ker for the International Labor Defense?
^Ir. Franklin. He is.
Mr. Matthews. And did he tell you that he was a registered
Communist for a number of years?
Mr. Franklin. He did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know what position Adele Young holds
in the Comnuuiist Party, if any?
Mr. Franklin. I know that she is a registered Comnmnist. I
don't know what position she holds. The last that I heard she was
in the book store — this was about 3 months ago, somewhere down
on Spring Street. She was working in the book store. They had
a picture of her in the People's World.
Mr. Matthews. When Betty Martin introduced Slim Connolly
at the meeting, do you recall how she introduced him?
Mr. Franklin. She introduced him as a member of the News
Guild.
Mr. ]VL\TTHEws. Were you asked to join the Communist Party at
that meeting?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was anybody with you when you were asked to
join the Connnunist Party?
Mr. Franklin. My wife was.
Mr. Matthews. Who was it asked you to join?
Mr. Matthews. Willet, George Willet.
Mr. Matthews. George Willet asked you to join?
Mr, Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was your wife asked to join also?
Mr. Franklin. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know the names of any other persons who
were present at the meeting?
Mr. Franklin. Well, they would be almost too numerous to men-
tion. They were the usual group of Communists who were there.
Mr. VooRHis. Where was this meeting held ?
Mr. Franklin. On East AYashington Boulevard at the home of
Adele Young, She had a big room in the back there rigged out
kind of like a liall. It was not a regular Communist Party meet-
ing, you understand. They termed it "an educational meeting under
the ausj)ices of the Communist Party of Los Angeles." It was some-
thing like that. I have the card but neglected to bring it.
Mr, VooRHis. How did you happen to go?
Mr. Franklin. They invited me. There were several people there
who were not Communists. At that time it was their practice — they
were "constructing a united front" with which you are no doubt well
familiar because they considered you one of their leading spirits in
rX-AMEKICAN I'lUHWOANDA AC'lIVlllES 8569
that "united l"i-(»iit."' ami roiiiully coiuU'iiined you as a traitor to the
cause when you joined tliis committee and failed to save their skins,
so to speak.
Mr. VdOKiiis. Yes; I know.
Mr. ^Iatthkws. What was your reaction to the invitation to join
the Connnunist Party?
Mr. FitANKLiN. "Well, I had no intention of joining the Communist
Pariy. I merely went to the meeting- to sort of get accjuainted and
see what I could see and I was cni-ious.
At that time I held a dilferent outlook altogether concerning the
])urposes of the Connnunist Party than I ch) now. I didn't think
that they were as harmful as they are, as I think, now. I didn't con-
sider them any meance. I merely considered them as, w'ell, you might
say "crackpots," that is all.
Mr. IMa'itiiews. Did the party members consider you friendly
toward them at that time?
Mr. Fkaxklix. Well, I believe that they must have or they wouldn't
liave invited me to their meeting.
Mr. ^Matthews. What prom})ts you to appear before this committee
voluntaril}^ and offer testimony concerning Conmmnist penetration
into the labor movement in California ?
Mr. Franklin. Well, the fact that I think that if it wasn't for the
present international situation I believe that the Commtmists, because
of their zeal and their capabilities — that is their leaders, w^ould have
gained complete control of the United States through their labor
organizations.
That sounds rather far-fetched but their progress is amazing within
the labor unions and the way they are winning the goodvvill of thv^
working people and winning the cooperation of the indifferent people,
people who are indifferent to all causes, is amazing, but the interna-
tional situation has brought a surge of patriotism to the average
working person and now is an excellent opportunity to rid the labor
movement of all of those influences which are detrimental to its wel-
fare, and that includes the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. I have no more questions, Mr, Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Voorhis?
Mr. VooRiiis. Xo; I don't believe I have any questions,
Mr. Starxes. Mr, Mason ?
Mr. Masox. Xo C{uestions.
Mr, Starxes. Thank you very much, Mr. Franklin.
Mr. Matthews. The next witness is Mr. Bailey.
TESTIMONY OF FRED E. BAILEY, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.
Mr. Starxes. W\\[ you please stand and raise your right hand, Mr.
Bailey? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give
before this couunittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
]\rr. Bailey. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Bailey, will you please give .your full name?
Mr. Bailey. Fred E. Bailey.
Mr. ^Matthews. Where do you live?
Mr. Bailey. At 20-26 East Fourth Street, Los Angeles, Calif.
3570 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews, Are you an American citizen ?
Mr. Bailey. I am.
Mr. Matthews. AVliere were yon born?
Mr. Baii^y. Chester, Pa.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. Bailey. November 6, 1898.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever served in the armed forces of the
United States?
Mr. Bailey. I have ; from 1917 to 1920.
Mr. Matthews. Were you in the World War ?
Mr. Bailey. I was.
Mr. Matthews. In what division of the service?
Mr. Bailey. In tlie Twenty-eio;hth Division.
Mr. Matthews. What is your present occupation ?
Mr. Bailey. At present I am workinji in San Diejro as an inspector
for Government housinc; for the McNeal-Zoss Construction Co.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been a member of the United Auto-
mobile Workers of America?
Mr. Bailey. I have. I still am a member. I have been on strike
at the Ford plant for 3 years. I still carry a card in the United Auto-
mobile Workers.
Mr. Matthews. Which Ford plant is that?
Mr. Bailey. In Long Beach.
Mr. Matthews. Long Beach, Calif.?
Mr. Bailey. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. And you have been on strike there for 3 years?
Mr. Bailey. Over 3 years. It was 3 years last April.
Mr. Matthews. During the Ford strike did you meet Lew Michener ?
Mr. Bailey. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about Communist Party
meetings that were held in conjunction with that strike at the Ford
plant in Long Beach ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please detail what you know about them ?
Mr. Bailey. Well, the latter part of 1938 I was invited to threee
of those meetings. These meetings were to be held to discuss a re-
lief set-up of all the unions on the west coast. It was to grow until
it included the entire west coast and was to be started with the
United Automobile Workers in Los Angeles County.
Mr. Matthews. How were you notified to attend these meetings?
Mr. Bailey. I was notified through the secretary, the recording
secretary of my local.
Mr. Matthews. Who was he ?
Mr. Bailey. Paul Harvey.
Mr. Matthews. And how did you know these were Communist
meetings ?
Mr. Bailey. Well, I knew after I got there when I saw who the
leaders were, that it was a Communist meeting.
Mr. Mattheavs. Was there any Communist literature sold or dis-
tributed ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes ; it was sold and given away to strikers.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have to be vouched for before you were
permitted to enter the meeting?
Mr. Bailey. Yes.
UX-AMEUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8571
Mr. jMattiiews. Do you recall who vouched for you ?
Mr. Bailey. Well, those who brought guests along vouched for
them.
Mr. Matthews. Who acted as chairman of the meeting?
Mr. llMLEY. Bill Lyons.
]Mr. ^Iatthews. L-y-o-n-s?
Mr, Bailey. That is right.
Mr. ]^Iatthews. Do you know who Lyons is?
Mr. Bailey. Lyons is an organizer for the Communist Party in
Los Angeles.
Mr. Matthews. At that time what was he?
Mr. Bailey. At that time he was a member of a local in Los
Angeles. I just don't recall the number of that local but I think it
was 188.
Mr. Matthews. Well, at any of these meetings — you say there were
three of them that you attended, I believe?
]Mr. Bailey. Yes; I attended three of them.
3klr. ]VL\TTnEWS. At any of these meetings was Lew Michener
present ?
Jklr. Badley. Yes; he was present at the one we had in Bell. I
don't know just where it was held in Bell or at whose home it was
held but it was held at the home of a Communist.
Mr. Matthews. '\Yliat part did Michener take in the meeting?
Mr. Bailey. Michener took the part of organizing this relief set-
up. The purpose was to influence the State relief in such a way
as to bring enough pressure up on them that benefits could be gotten
by strikers without all that red tape that you have to go through.
In other words, if there was a strike, a big strike, proper relief would
be given to strikers so that they wouldn't have to go out and look
for other jobs — ^they could put more time on a demonstration.
Mr. ]Matthews. Do you know Scotty Orr?
Mr. Bailey. I do.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Was Scotty Orr at any of these meetings?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; he was there too.
Mr. IVLvtthews. Will you please identify Scotty Orr?
Mr. Bailey. Scotty Orr is a Scotchman with black hair, about 5
feet 1 or 2 inches, and weighs about 170 pounds.
Mr. Matthews. What does he do?
Mr. Bailey. He is an organizer for the aircraft industi'y around
Los Angeles.
Mr. ISL^TTHEws. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist?
Mr. Bailey. Xo; I don't know for sure. I heard one time — I
inquired about it antl they said that ''he was too hot" and that the
Communist Party didn't want him. That was in 1938. They didn't
want him on account of his Masonic affiliations. They were afraid
of him.
Mr. Matthews. Well, did he participate in any of these meetings?
]Mr. Bailey. How is that?
Mr. ]\Latthews. Did he participate in any of these meetings?
Mr. Bailey, Yes; he did. He talked on the organization of the
aircraft industry. The aircraft industry was discussed very much at
that time.
ISIr. Matthews. Do you know Ralph Reed?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; I do.
3572 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. What do yoii know about him ?
Mr. Bailey. Ralph Reed is a member of my local and he was one
of those that was invited ; but they never invited him anymore because
he talked too much.
Mr. jNIatthews. Do you know Dell Compton?
Mr. Bailey. Yes, sir; I know Dell Compton. He admits that he
is a Communist.
Mr. Matthews. Was he present at any of these meetino;s?
Mr. Bailey. He was present, him and his wife both. His wife is
very active among the women of the auxiliaries in the United Auto-
mobile Workers.
Mr. VooRHis. Just a minute. We are talking about these meet-
ings— just exactly what were these meetings?
Mr. Bailey. These meetings were invitational affairs.
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Bailey. And you were invited to attend these meetings?
Mr. VooRHis. By whom?
Mr. Bailey. Well, I was always invited by m}?^ secretary.
Mr. VooRHis. By "your secretary"?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; the secretary of my local.
Mr. Matthews. Paul Harvey?
Mr. Bailey. They tried very hard to alw^ays get a foot in these
locals.
Mr. Matthews. Bv getting the recordino- secretary? That is the
policy of the Communist Party — if they can get a hold of the record-
ing secretary, they have got an entry.
Mr. Voorhis. But how did they happen to invite you to the meeting?
Mr. Bailey. They wanted me to attend those meetings and to take
over the relief set-up that they were going to set up.
Mr. Voorhis. Were you an official of the union ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes, sir; I was. I was secretary — chairman of the
relief committee.
Mr. Voorhis. You were chairman of the relief committee ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; chairman of the relief committee, and I had very
good success Avith the relief organization in Los Angeles County, 'in
getting relief for the strikers of my own union; and because of that
Michener wanted me to take over the whole relief committee of all the
locals in Los Angeles County and later on to take over the west coast.
Mr. Matthews. You sav it was Michener who wanted you to do
that?
Mr. Bailey. That is right. Michener talked to me that night about
it, and he talked to me about it in the office.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Sam Miller ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; I am not so well acquainted with him, but I know
who he is.
Mr. Matthews. Who is Sam Miller?
Mr. Bailey. Sam Miller was secretary of the Willys-Overland local.
Mr. Matthews. Was he at these meetings?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; he was at that one in Bell.
Mr. Matthews. The one at Bell— B-e-1-1?
Mr. Bailey. That is the one. The other two meetings were not so
important. I only stayed about a half hour and then we were told to
UX-AAIEUK'A.N rU()rA(;AM>A ACTIVITIES 8573
«r() and those that were invited there left and the meeting continued
■\vitlu)Ul us.
Mr. Ma'itiiews. Now, was the Workers Alliance brought into the
discussion at any of these meetings?
Mr. H.Mi.KY. The Workers Alliance was always brought in wherever
the relief situation was discussed.
Mr. Matthews. You say that you w^ere successful in obtaining re-
lief for men on strike. Would you obtain that relief through the
Workers Alliance?
Mr. Bailey. I did at first; yes. I gained a lot of information from
the Workei-s Alliance — a complete picture of the relief set-up in
southein California. I knew who I could go to see in each one of these
distiicts. The Workers Alliance had employees working for the State
i-elief administration that helped the AVorkers Alliance to get relief
for their members, and I took advantage of that to the extent that I had
the same success in getting them on.
Mr. VooRiris. What employees of the State relief administration
were doing that ?
Mr. Bailey. The Workers' Alliance had members working in the
State relief administration — in the offices.
Mr. Starxes. When was that ?
Mr. Bailey. In 1938 and 1939.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you know who was personal manager of the State
relief administration at that time?
Mr. Bailey. No ; I don't.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you know whether it is the same person that is
manager of it now?
Mr. Bailey. I don't know who it is.
Mr. VooRHis. I think, Mr. Chairman, it is only fair to state that at
that time there was a very different regime in the State relief admin-
istration than there is today,
Mr. Bailey. That is right.
Mr. VnoRHis. You say that w\as in the beginning of 1938 ?
Mr. Bailey. The latter part of 1938.
Mr. VooRiiis. That is right, the latter part of 1938. I am quite cer-
tain that William Plunkett was personnel director of the State relief
administration at that time. He was later dismissed by the Governor,
and I don't think you will find any such situation existing there now.
Mr. Matthews. Were your contacts with the State office or with the
Los Angeles office or other local offices?
Mr. Bailey. My contact was made with Mr. Heckt in the State relief
administration at Los Angeles.
Mi-. Matthews. How do you spell that ?
:Mr. Bailey. H-e-c-k-t. But I never got very far with him.
Mr. Matthews. Now, was it your understanding that because you
were chairman f)f the relief committee in the striking local of the U. A.
W.. and because you had had some success in obtaining relief for
strdvei-s. that the Communists wished to use you in a general relief or-
ganization which they were going to set up?
Mr. Bailey. That is right— that is what Mr. Michener told me.
Mr. AIatthews. Did he tell you that the Communists were involved
in this in any way?
3574 UX-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Bailey. Oh, no ; not the Communists, no ; but he told me through
my acquaintance with the relief set-up and what I had done for my
local that he wanted to place me in that position.
Mr. Matthews. Now, are you acquainted with the way in which the
Communists functioned in the strike at your local ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes ; I am,
Mr. Matfhews. Will you describe that ?
Mr. Bailey. As far as my local is concerned ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Bailey. When we went on strike we went on strike on a
Friday and the following Monday we had a representative from the
harbor district of the Communist Party, Loretta Adams, and Mrs.
Adams offered us all available assistance that we needed. They
provided an ambulance to carry away strikers that were — that should
happen to get hurt in any fights, and we had a representative of the
I. L. D. who called there and gave us cards as to what to do in case
of arrest — in case we got caught working somebody over or over-
turning a car or something like that — the things that go with a
strike.
This card gave us information as to what to do,
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of any other way in which the Com-
munists functioned in your strike?
Mr. Bailey. Yes; they helped us to set up a restaurant to feed the
strikers that worked on the picket line; they sponsored a couple of
dances to provide funds for the strikers
Mr. Staenes. Can you give us information or can you confirm the
information given to us under oath by Mr. Inzer and by Mr. Franklin,
to the effect that at the present time the Communists are quite active
in the coast area out there in an effort to promote discord and strife
and dissatisfaction; produce slow-downs and stoppages of construc-
tion work in the airplane industry, because of its effect on the na-
tional-defense program ?
Mr. Bailey. No ; I can't, I ceased my activities with my own local
in November of 1939. I went broke and I had to go to work.
Mr. VooRHis. Where have you worked since then?
Mr. Bailey. I have been working on the W. P. A. for awhile and in
the latter part of 1940 I went to work with the McNeal Construction
Co., at Long Beach, and then I went to San Diego on a big job there;
but I haven't attended any meetings of my local.
Mr. VooRHis. I would like to ask a couple of questions.
Mr. Starnes. Certainly.
Mr. VooRHis. Is that local still on strike at the Ford plant ?
Mr. Bailey. Still out on strike ; yes, sir,
Mr. VooRHis. But the plant is operating, is it ?
Mr. Bailey. Yes, sir ; it is.
Mr. VooRHis. In other words, in practical effect the strike has been
lost?
Mr. Bailey. I wouldn't say that that strike is lost — ^that strike is
not lost.
Mr. VooRHis. You don't think it is ?
Mr. Bailey. No; because we have a decision handed down by the
Labor Board and upheld by the appellate court. He has been ordered
to reinstate all the strikers and pay them back wages.
UX-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8575
yiv. VooKHis. But he hasn't done it?
Mr. Bailey. No.
Mr. Vooinns. How hnifj afjo was ho ordered to do that?
Mr. Bailey. We irot tlie first order about 2 years a<>o and then just
about 6 months atro it was uphekl by the higher court.
Mr. VooRHis. Do you think conchict like that plays into tlie hands of
the Conununists in the labor movement?
Mr. Bailey. It certainly does.
Mr. VooRHTS. I mean action like that on the part of an employer.
Mr. Bailey. It certainly helps the Connnunist movement a lot be-
cause they just seem to <2;et in when you are at your lowest.
yiv. VooRHis. I think so, too.
Mr. Bailey. That is why they center so mnch of their activity on
the Workers Alliance. They use that very, very mnch because they
jret in and g:et a hold of a man when he is down — he is hunory and he
can't <2:et a job. Then is when they breed the connnunistic idea into
his head and that is why they wanted me on this relief committee,
because I knew what those fellows were up against.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you very much, Mr. Bailey.
Mr. Matthews. The next witness is Mr. Crozier.
TESTIMONY OF OSCAR C. CROZIER, SAN GABRIEL, CALIF.
Mr. Starxes. Mr. Crozier. will you please stand and raise your
right hand ? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give
before this committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Crozier. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Will you give us your full name?
Mr. Crozier. Oscar C. Crozier.
Mr. Matfhews. Wliere do you live ?
]Mr. Crozier. San Gabriel.
Mr. Matthews. Are you an American citizen ?
Mr. Crozier. I am.
Mr. Matthews. A^Hiere were you born?
Mr. Crozier. In Logansport, Ind.
Mr. Matthews. WTien?
Mr. Crozier. In December 1895.
Mr. Matthews. How long have you lived in California?
Mr. Crozier. Been in California since 1930.
Mr. Mattheavs. Have you been a member of any trade union ?
Mr. Crozier. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give your background in the trade
imion movement?
Mr. Crozier. In 1937, in March, they started to organize the Stude-
baker Pacific Corporation, an assembly plant for automobiles, in
which plant I was employed and in that plant I was instrumental in
organizing the U. A. W.-C. I. O., and was elected the first temporary
chairman.
Mr. Matthews. Did you belong to any union before that time?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; I had belonged to the International Theatrical,
Stage Employees and Moving Picture Operators.
026:i6 — 11— voL 14 27
g576 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Where were you working at the time you belonged
to that union ?
Mr. Crozier. I was working in a theater in Logansport, Ind.
Mr. Mati'hews. Have you ever worked for the Pennsylvania Rail-
road Co.?
Mr. Crozier. I have.
Mr. Matthews. For the Humes Refining Co. ?
Mr. Crozier. I have.
Mr. Matthews. And now you are employed at the Studebaker
Pacific Corporation?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. In California?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the Studebaker Pacific Corporation?
Mr. Crozier. Studebaker Pacific Corporation; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What kind of work do you do there?
Mr. Crozier. They are engaged in the assembly of Studebaker
automobiles.
Mr. Matthews. And you are a member of the IT. A. W. local at
that plant?
Mr. Crozier. I am.
Mr. Matthews. What is the number of the local at that plant?
]yir. Crozier. Local 255.
Mr. Matthews. How long have you been a member of that union ?
ISIr. Crozier. Since March of 1937.
Mr. jMatthews. Did you organize that local?
Mr. Crozier. I was instrumental in organizing it, and practically
organized it alone by myself.
Mr. Matthews. Did Bill Lyons have anything to do with that
local at the time of its inception?
Mr. Crozifj?. Yes, sir; Bill Lyons conducted the meetings which
were called — the mass meetings which were called for the organiza-
tional drive in that ])lant.
Mr. Matthews. What do you know about Bill Lyons and his con-
nections, if anything?
Mr. Crozier. Will you repeat that question?
Mr. Matthews. What do you know about Bill Lyons and his con-
nections, if anytliing?
Mr. Crozier. Connections with what?
Mr. Matthews. Any organizations.
Mr. Crozier. He was at that time acting in the capacity of an
organizer for the IT. A. W. due to the fact that they were short of
paid organizers. He was not a paid organizer but he was always
an active member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Now, how do you know he was a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Crozier. Because he has stated to me that he was a member of
the Connnunist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Did you hold any position in Local 255 after its
organization in 1937?
]Mr. Crozier. I did. I was elected the first temporary chairman
and the first ]:)ermanent chairman and the second chief shop steward,
and then again elected ])resident.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8577
Mr. Mattheavs. Have you been in effect president of the local three
times ?
Mr. Ckozier. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have any official position in the local at
the ])resent time?
Mr. CnoziEK. Xone whatsoever.
!Mr. MA'rrHEws. Durino; the period when you were an official of
Local 255. were you a delei>-ate to the Los Angeles Industrial Union
Council ^
Mr. Crozier. At various, different times.
ISfr. Matthews, Did you ever discuss the question of Communist
activities on the floor of the Los Anjxeles Industrial Trade Uniuii
Council ?
Mr. Crozter, Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you take any particular position with reference
to the affiliation of your own local with the Los Angeles Industrial
Union Council 't
]SIr. Crozier. Yes, sir; I did. In 1938 I recommended to my local
union that they withdraw from the council due to the fact that we
were not receiving any interest or any goodwill out of the council
and that it was. in my opinion, communistically controlled.
Mv. ]NL\TTHEWS. What action did your local take on your proposal ?
Mr. Crozier. They withdrew from the council.
Mr. Matthews. Your own Local 255 withdrew from the Los Angeles
Industrial Union Council?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. On the ground that you were deriving no particular
benefit ?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. And that you considered the Los Angeles Indus-
trial Union Council Communist controlled?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Local 255 is at present
affiliated with the Los Angeles Industrial Union Council?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; we reaffilialod with the council.
^Ir. Matthews. When was that?
Mr. Crozier. That was about 6 montlis ago, now.
Mr. Matthews. About 6 months ago ?
Mr. Crozier. Yes.
Mr. VooRiiis. At the time you withdrew didn't a good many of the
unions withdraM" from it also?
Mr. Crozier. Well. I can't say as to that. There were some with-
drawals from it, yes.
^Ir. ]\Iatthews. Now, while you were president of Local 255, did
you come in contact with Lew Michener?
Mr. Crozier. Yes.
Mr. ISIatthews. What position did he hold at that time?
Mr. Crozier. He wna the regional director.
Mr. Matthews. Did you meet with him frequently with I'egard to
union matters?
^Ir. Crozier. Well. I might say I possibly should have met vvith him
more than I did in regaixl to union matters, but due to his affiliations
and liis bedfellows, my local and myself stayed away from him.
8578 UN-A]\IERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. What do you mean by "bedfellows" '?
Mr. Ceozier. Well, members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Mattpiews, What do you know about his associations with
members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Crozier. Well, I might say this, "birds of a feather flock to
gethei"," and that is where I got my opinion of Lew Michener and
the Communist Party.
Mr. VooRHis. I think it would be best for you to be more specific
about that. You just say, "birds of a feather flock together," and
that is why you think it. Now, I think you should explain that.
Mr. Crozier. Well, I might explain it in this way, which I think
further down in the testimony it will be brought out definitely, as
to why I connect Lew Michener with the Communist Party.
Mr. VooRHis. All right, I will wait until that testimony comes in.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever at any time find Lew Michener in
company with Sam Miller, Bill Lyons, and Nick Ripan?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; I have.
Mr. Matthews. First, will you state what you know about Sam
Miller and Bill Lyons and Nick Ripan ?
Mr. Crozier. Bill Lyons definitely told me he was a member of
the Conmiunist Party and he was a known organizer for the Com-
munist Party. Sam Miller, who is a member of Local 215, is or was
an instructor for the Communist Party in Highland Park.
Mr. Matthews. You mean he taught in a Communist Party work-
ers' school?
Mr. Crozier. No ; I have to say it this way : That they stayed
completely away from me due to the fact that way back in 1938 I
took the stand definitely against them and we have been very for-
tunate to keep the Communists out of Local 255.
Mr. Matthews. What do you know about Nick Ripan?
Mr. Crozier. Nick Ripan. or Bill Ripan, definitely resigned as a
board member of the Disti-ict Auto Council due to the fact that he
had to devote his time to Communist organizing.
Mr. Matthews. Well, now, will you describe the incident where
you found Michener in the company of Miller, Lyons, and Ripan ?
^Ir. Crozier. Yes. It was in the Currier Building, 212 AVest Third
Street. I was called to a conference in room 409 of that building.
When I got off the elevator you have to go past the regional office
and in the corner outside of the office or in the hall, with his back
up against the wall, stood Lew Michener and gathered around him,
closely, was Bill Lyons and Sam Miller and Ripan.
Mr. Matthews. What hap])ened after you saw these men together?
Mr. Crozier. Well, Lew Michener kind of ducked down so pos-
sibly, he thought, I wouldn't see him, and after our conference in
room 409 he came to me and said : "Buddy, I believe I owe you an
apology."
I said : "Well, Lew, if it was concerning the coincident of which I
witnessed when I came in I don't think you do owe me an apolog}'."
Mr. Matthews. What did he say about that?
Mr. Crozier. He more or less tried very hard to a^pologize and I
wouldn't accept no apology whatsoever from him.
Mr. Matthews. Did you attend the convention of the United Auto-
mobile Workers in St. Louis last year?
rX-AMEHK AN I'UOPAOxANDA ACTIVITIES 8579
Mr. Crozikij. T did.
Mr. Matthews. Just when was tlial convention?
Mr. CRoziFji. Tliat convention was held — lonvencd on July 29 and
extended into Auo;ust.
Mr. Matthkws. Did vou ao as a delegate from the Studebaker
local. Local No. 255?
Mr. CnoziER. I did.
Mr. jSlArriiKws. Did yon j^articipate in the election of a regional
director for California at that convention?
Mr. Cik)zu:r. I did.
Mr. Matthfavs. Will you please tell what part you had in that
election?
Mr. Crozi'.R. Well, when we were gathered in our caucus room and,
naturally. I think as the previous witness. Brother Inzer, has stated,
when the nominations were opened and Lew Michener was nominated
and myself was nominated, I told Lew ^lichener definitely that if he
didn't take the regional office out of the home of the Communist
Party, of which we considered the Currier Building, and that was
where the regional office was then located, we were going to come
up thei-e and throw him and the furniture all out the window.
Mr. Matthews. What did he have to say about that?
Mr. Crozif.r. He definitely said they were going to move the home
of the regional office and that they did do.
Mr. Matthews. Was the People's World one of the institutions
that was housed in the Currier Building?
Mr. Crozier. I would not say definitely that they were. However,
I recall back iji early 1938 going up there and we got some literature
and definitely I wouldn't say that they were housed or that the
Peo])le"s World was edited in that building.
Mr. Matthews. Now. at the St. Louis convention, where you were
a candidate for regional director and Michener was a candidate, you
said there was a third candidate?
Mr. Crozier. No; just the two of us.
Mr. ]\L\tthews. Who was elected?
Mr. Crozier. Lew Michener.
Mr. Maithews. Do you recall the general size of the vote?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; it was tremendous on his side.
Mr. Matthews. Are you disgruntled because you failed of elec-
tion ?
Mr. Crozier. Well, I would have liked to have been the regional
director for just about 30 days down there, to clean that place out.
That is really what was my incentive for being the regional director,
for the benefit of the labor movement in that district.
Mr. Matthews. Did you notice anything of particular significance
about Michener's associates at the St. Louis convention?
Mr. Crozier. Yes, sir; very definitely. Of course, Wyndham Mor-
timer, who is one of Michener's oi-ganizers and works directly under
Michener. he was associating with John Anderson, of Local 155
of Detroit, who is a known Comnnmist and who defended the
Soviet Union on the floor of our convention.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Michener voted
on the resolutions that were brought before the St. Louis conven-
tion ?
8580 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Crozier. Michener was very clever about siicli things as that.
He usually got out when it was about time to vote on anything.
Mr. Matthews. Did the St. Louis convention of the United Auto-
mobile Workers adopt a resolution endorsing the third term can-
didacy of the President ?
Mr. Crozier. They did.
Mr. Matthews. What did the Auto Council or the C. I. O. or-
ganization in California do subsequent to this endorsement at St.
Louis ?
Mr. Crozier. Well, I don't quite understand what you are referring
to there. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthew^s. Did Michener in California after the convention,
back the resolution which had been adopted at St. Louis?
Mr. Crozier. No; he did not. They were opposed to Franklin
Koosevelt for a third term and the New Deal. However, I was
not a delegate to the State convention, which was held in San Diego,
of which I think the affair you are referring to took place; but Lew
Michener, as an international executive board member of the United
Automobile Workers of America, C. I. O., in the international ex-
ecutive board meeting prior, 6 weeks prior to the convention called
in St. Louis, at that meeting the board approved Franklin D. Roose-
velt for the third term and Lew Michener at that board meeting
fought that down, but he was whipped into line back at that time
and he definitely knew when he went into the convention that his
own board went for the third term for Roosevelt.
Mr. Starnes. What is the relevancy of this?
Ml-. Matthews. At the St. Louis convention where the so-called
Connnunist faction failed to exert any very great influence in the
resolutions, they went back to California and in the organizations
there succeeded in overriding what had been done at St. Louis. In
other words, they lost on the Communist Party line in St. Louis
and succeeded on the Connnunist Party line in Los Angeles.
Mr. Starnes. They lost on the broader front and went back and
renewed their efforts on a smaller front on the coast and won out,
is that wiiat you are bringing out?
Mr. Matthews. That is my understanding of the situation. I
will ask the witness to state if that is correct.
Mr. Starnes. Let me get this straight : These leaders who went
to California to renew the drive of the Communist Party, they, to-
gether with other Connnunist leaders, centralized their efforts there,
is that right?
Mr. Crozier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Wyndham Mortimer is not a native of California?
Mr. Crozier. No, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Do you know whether Lew Michener is or not?
Mr. Crozier. I wouldn't state — no; I don't know whether he is or
not.
Mr. VooRHis. Could I ask a question here, Mr. Chairman?
Mr, Starnes. Yes; Mr. Voorhis.
Mr. Voorhis. Mr. Crozier, there has been considerable testimony
today about the C. I. O. in southern California, i want to ask you
how many members this organization has that is headed by Mr. Inzer,
and to which I understand you also belong — about how many mem-
bers do you have?
UN-AMERICAN PUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8581
Mr. Croziek. Woll, Conai-essnian Voorhis, I am not a menibor of
the \'i<^ilaiit Coniinittee, and I would like a little later on to elabo-
rate on that as to why I am not a member, due to the f act^ of the
committee we have set up within our own local union. We have
endorsed l^rother Inzer's connnittee 100 percent and will cooperate
with them at all times and do.
Mr. Stahnes. But you have your own organization fight?
]\Ir. Crozier. Yes.
Mr. \\)ORHis. I^t me ask you this: Among the rank and file of
the C. I. O. generally in southern California, what percentage of
the men do you reckon are opposed to Communist domination where-
ever it might exist ?
Mr. Crozier. AVell, I would say the overwhelming majority of the
C. I. O. in general, throughout the United States, is opposed to the
Connnunist Party.
Mr. Voorhis. And so would I.
Mr. Crozier. And to any other subversive groups.
Mr. Voorhis. And the same would be true in southern California?
Mr. Crozier. That is true; yes, sir.
Mr. Voorhis. Are there international unions that are affiliated with
the C. I. O. in southern California which, in your opinion are clean
of Communist influence?
Mr. Crozier. Yes.
Mr. Voorhis. Which ones?
Mr. Crozier. Well, I can say Local 255 for one, and of course you
are speaking relative to international unions?
Mr. Voorhis. Yes; at the moment.
Mr, Crozier. Well, I don't think — I am sorry to say and to make
this report from California, I don't think I could report that there
is one international that hasn't got some Communist activities with-
in it.
Mr. Voorhis. Well, of course you can't, because they are going to
try to have activities in every organization there is, but I am asking
you about international organizations where they do not have any
controlling influence and where the movement of opposing men has
been strong enough to prevent their holding any offices or gaining
any control or any influence to speak of.
Mr. Crozier. I say definitely I don't know of any out there that
is not.
Mr. A^oorhis. What about the rubber workers?
]\Ir. Crozier. Well, I will have to say that Bob Roberts, of the
rubber workers, has kept the rubber workers very clean. I don't
believe they are completely controlled by it. but there is Communist
influence, in my opinion, in the rubber workers.
Mr. Voorhis. There are certain locals where I could vouch myself
tli(M-e isn't a bit.
Mr. (Crozier. Oh, yes: certain individual locals: yes, sir; as T stated
about mine, but I thought vou were referrino; to internationals.
All
Mr. VooKHis. You know wdiat is in the constitution of the Rubber
Workers" International?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; I know what is in our local union constitutioii,
too.
Mr. Voorhis. What I am trying to get at is, and I think it is im-
portant for the general picture to be as clear as we can, and I don't
8582 UN-AJNIERICA^' PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
want the comniittee to let the impression go out that this is a universal
proposition — I think it is important for some of the men that are fight-
ing the front line battle on this thing to get credit for it and usually
they don't.
All I want to make clear is that there are locals and larger organiza-
tions, too
Mr. Crozier. I heartily agree with you.
Mr. VooRHis. AVhere the fight to keep the Communists crom any
controlling influence has been successful.
Mr. Crozier. I heartily agree with you, that there are locals even
beyond and in addition to the rubber workers that are attempting to
do that very thing that you are trying to bring out, but not the
internationals.
Mr. VooRHis. I didn't mean everyone; I just meant generally.
What other locals would you mention, if you can think of any others,
where you think the same general situation occurs as in your local ?
Mr. Crozeer. Well, I should say Local 21G has fought diligently and
hard and opposed the subversive groups, and Local 43 of the rubber
workers. Local 44 also, and my own. And, in fact, I would have to
say all of them have fought against it.
Mr. VooRHis, Local 44 of the rubber workers is the one Herb Wil-
son is the president of?
Mr, Crozier. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. VooRHis. What about the Amalgamated Clothing Workers?
Mr. Crozier. Well. I am not so familiar with them. However. I
do know that the}^ battle heartily against them also. I have not at-
tended, but as you brought out the point — our local union rents our
hall from the rubber workers which is located on Atlantic Boulevard
and that is how I happen to know definitely about them,
Mr, Mason, Just this one thing: You men have come here volun-
tarily as witnesses because of your interest in trying to clean up
the labor unions of the west coast that you represent, and get rid of
subversive elements and also influences in those unions.
Would you say that it would be safe to say you are representing
at least 95 or 98 percent of the membership of the C. I. O, unions
on the west coast in your efl'orts to do that very thing?
Mr, Crozier. I would say yes.
Mr. Mason. That is all. That is the picture as I get it,
Mr. Matthews. I show you a copy of the bylaws of Studebaker
Local 255, and ask you if you can identify that as a correct copy of
the bylaws of the organization?
Mr, Crozier. Yes. sir ; I do.
Mr. Matthews. Has this been adopted in its entirety by the Stude-
balver Local 255?
Mr. Crozier. It has.
Mr. Matthews. When was it so adopted?
Mr. Crozier. I would say about three and a half months ago.
Mr. Matthews. On page 16 there is an article numbered article
19, entitled. "Installation Cei-emony." Will you please read that
article — section 1?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; section 1, entitled "Installation Ceremony."
Then —
The provisions and procedures outlined in article 36 of the constitution of
the International Union, the United Automobile Workers of America, are
rX-A.MKHirAN I'KOI'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8583
luM-eby addptod for the iiLstallalion ceri'inniiit's for this local, provided, liowever,
that there sliall be added to the oath in said article 3H, set forth beginning
after the last line of the said constitutional oath, the following:
"To support and comply with the laws of the Constitution of the United
States of Ainciica and the constitution and laws of the State of California
and to do everything in my power to preserve and defend the form of govern-
ment established in the United States of America, and to oppose the establish-
ment of any Nazi. Fascist, or communistic government party within the United
States of America."
Mr. Matthews. Xow, your local adopted that section of your
bylaws^
Mr. Crozier. They did, without a dissentin"^ vote.
Mr. Matthews. Do your bylaws have to go before any other body
for approval?
Mr. Crozh^r. They do. They must be ratified according to our
international constitution of the United Automobile Workers of
America, by our international executive board.
Mr. Matthews. Has this installation ceremony been approved?
Mr. Crozier. That has not. We were notified that they rejected
that part as it was unconstitutional according to our constitution.
Mr. Matthews. In other words the international executive board
rejected that installation ceremony as your local had adopted it?
Mr. Crozier. That is correct.
Mr. YooRHis. On what ground did they reject it ?
]\Ir. Crozier. They rejected it on the ground that it was uncon-
stitutional.
^fr. Voor.His. Why?
Mr. Crozier. Due to the fact of our international constitution, of
which I have a copy over there in my brief case.
Mr. VooRHis. Was it because of the fact that you are an inter-
national union with membership in Canada?
Mr. Crozier. No. I wcnild like to if you care — I can quote from
the international constitution on the grounds why — T don't like to do
it without quoting from the constitution — I don't want to get off
the track.
]\Ir. Matthews. I think perhaps the witness can explain where the
conflict lies.
Mr. Starnes. You can set that section out in the record and let
him explain it in his own words.
Mr. AIatthews. What is the conflict?
Mr. Crozier. Well, definitely, because the C. I. O. has taken the
policy that they shall accept for membership within the C. I. O. all
races, creeds, and it is not prejudiced to anyone. That is a very
broad and long thing thsit came about back in the early days of it
when that was adopted and when I don't think they felt the Com-
munists were going to come in or that the present crisis was going
to be here, and I look and hope, sincerely hope, that at our con-
vention in Buffalo this year that we can in some sort of way or other
amend that.
Mr. VooRHis. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Have you been present at any gathering where a
communication was received relative to the purchase of defense
bonds ?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; I have.
Mr. Matthews. Wliat gathering was that?
3584 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIAaTIES
Mr. Croziek. That was the regular meeting of the Los Angeles
Industrial Union Council.
jNIr. Matthews. And did this communication urge upon union
members the purchase of defense bonds of the United States Gov-
ernment ?
Mr. Crozier. It did ; and the communication was from our C. I. O.
national headquarters.
Mr. Matthews. What reception did that communication have in
the Los Angeles Industrial Union Council?
]\Ir, Crozier. Slim Connolly, the secretary of the council, read the
communication, and it asked us to buy defense bonds and stamps,
explaining what a good investment it was, and when he got to the
part of the "good investment," why, Slim Connolly merely laughed,
and it was a "ha ha," and he stated in some sort of words like this :
"Yes, it is a good investment," and with that an indignant laugh.
Mr. Matthews. You mean a sarcastic laugh?
Mr. Crozier. Yes; a scarcastic laugh.
Mr. Matthews. Was the communication received with favor by
any vote?
Mr. Crozier. No; it was moved and seconded and carried to file
the communication.
JNIr. Matthews. Was any further action taken on it?
Mr. Crozier. No; none.
Mr. Matthews. Immediately after that communication was read
did the subject of a testimonial dinner in honor of Leo Gallagher
come before the council ?
Mr. Crozier. Yes, sir; it did.
Mr. Matthews. Is this a copy of the announcement of the testi-
monial dinner in honor of Leo Gallagher?
Mr. Crozier. Yes, sir ; it is.
Mr. Matthews. And what action was taken by the council on this
subject and in what mood, if you are able to describe it?
Mr. Crozier, The communication was read by Slim Connolly and
definitely there was a motion made to concur in the communica-
tion and endorse the testimonial dinner and urge the council to
send invitations to all delegates.
Mr. Matthews. Was the matter greeted with any enthusiasm on
the part of the council ?
Mr. Crozier. Yes ; I would say it was.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Leo Gallagher has
been a candidate for public office on the Communist Party ticket in
California ? ,
Mr. Crozier. Yes ; I do. /
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I offer this for inclusion in the
record at this point, as a list of sponsors, beginning on page 3 of
the announcement of this testimonial dinner in honor of Leo Gal-
lagher.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered. Is there anything else, Dr. Mat-
thews?
Mr. Matthews. That is all.
(The document referred to was marked "Crozier Exhibit No. 1,
May 29, 1941.")
UX-AMEHICAX 1'U(H'A(;AM)A ACTlVniKS 8585
(The list of sponsors mentioned above is as follows:)
Joseph W. AidU'ii. Curl J. Allen', Mrs. Fay E. Allen, Gcor.iiP Anderson,
Spencer Austrian. William Axelrod, Selnni Micliels Baehelis, Vicki Dauni. Jolui
Jieardsiey, Louise Bennett, Herbert Biberman, Leo Biiielnian, Warren K. Bill-
iiijis. George E. Bodie, Louis P.. F-olanos. Jim Burfoi'd, J. Vernon Burke, Nor-
man T. Byrne. Iln.uli J. Campbell, liobert Clark, Dorothy Connelly. Bert Corona,
Floyd Covinstou. Tom Cullen. Kobert O. Curran. Janus L. Daufjlitery. Ernest
Dawson. R. M. Deitz. Bill Eiconin, A. P. Entenza, vSluiji Fnjii. Osrar IL Fuss,
IMiil Gardner. Wilbur Gilbert. Howard Goddard. Louis Goldl)latt, Augustus
K. Hawkins. Don R. Heah'y, Marshall Ho'o, J. E. Jeffrey. (4rover Johnson,
Chester II. Jordan. Frederic A. Kane, A. Kerauan, Frank S. Lopez, Jr., Hugh
E. MacBeth. Ernest Marsh, James S. Martin. A. Maymudes, La Rue Mc-
cormick, Les:er A. McMillan, Carey McWilliams, Ed Means, Lew Michener,
J. Miller. Stanley Moffatt, Tom Mooney, Mary Moore, Ernest P. Morgan,
Leonard Oechsii.' Sam Ornitz, Peter J. Padovan, Charles A. Page, Eugene
Pal ton, James Penn. Cy Perkins. Pettis Perry. Herbert Resner, Paul Richie,
liobert S. Robinson. Herbert K. Sorrell, Don Ogden Srewart, Clinton J. Taft,
Mrs. Jessie Terry, Clore AVarne.
Mr. Maithews. Just a moment, ]\Ir. Chairman. The witness
would like to make a statement re<zarding his own organization,
which is somewhat parallel to the Vigilant American Committee.
What is the name of the organization which you set up in the
Studebake Local 255?
Mr. Crozier. The American Way Committee.
Mr. MATrHE\vs. Now, will you please state the objectives of this
committee i
Mr. Crozier. Mr. Chairman, may I have permission to read it?
I don't want to leave out anything and I don't want to get anything
in there becau.^e I am not here, naturally, in behalf of this committee.
1 am liere in behalf of the connnittee but they didn't send me here
and naturally I want to get it as we have it as a matter of record.
Mr. Starves. You may proceed.
Mr. Maso2^. You say you are not here in behalf of the committee ?
You are here in cooperation with and in sympathy with the purposes
of this committee? You are here in behalf of your local w^hich you
want to clear of any such things?
Mr. Crozier. I am sorry. I thought I made that very clear by
stating tliat 1 wasn't authorized by the connnittee to be here.
^Ir. IMatthews. He means the American Way Committee.
Mr. Mason. I see.
Mr. Crozier. Because there is a large movement under way to
dis.solve that committee.
The American W^ay Connnittee has adopted for their true aims,
to purge from our local union and the C. I. O. in general and the
United States of America, any members who are members or sym-
jyalhizers of the Communists, Nazi, or Facist Parties, or any any
other un-American groups whose activities are opposed to the best
interests of the kind of a labor movement that the free peoples of
the United States of America would be proud of, such antilabor
groups as the IVL and M., the Southern Californians, Inc., the Neu-
tral Thousands, and so on.
Mr. Matthews. That is all.
IMr. VooRHis. These groups that you mentioned at the end of your
statement, it is your opinion that their activities in the way of extreme
§586 UX-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
aiitilabor activities play into the hands of the Communists in the
iabor movement?
Mr. Ckozier. Well, the American Way Committee definitely con-
siders the antilabor group tactics as nn- American and from that
standpoint that is why we adopted those along- with the others.
I also should like to add if it is permissible, that we even feel,
as far as the committee is concerned, that some of those groups have
a greater advantage over us than even the Communists themselves
because they have contacts with some of the employers which they
parallel themselves with and which we thiidv destroys the labor
movement,
Mr. Starnes. Next witness.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Boiling.
TESTIMONY OF JAY EDWARD BOILING, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Boiling, will you please stand and raise your
right hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall
give before this committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Please give your full name for the record.
Mr. BoLLiNG. Jay Edward Boiling.
Mr. Matthews. Where do you live?
Mr. BoLLiXG. In Los Angeles, Calif.
Mr. Matthews. Are you an American citizen?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I am.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Hellier, Ky.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. BoLLiNG. July 20, 1892.
Mr. Matthews. How long have you been living in California?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Since about April 19, 1919.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever served in the armed forces of the
United States?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I have.
Mr. Matthews. In what capacity?
Mr. BoLLixG. I w^as in the Artillery.
Mr. Matthews. During the World War?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Yes ; during the World War.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state briefly the jobs or positions
which you have held during your adulthood?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I will sketch over a few of them. I don't think I
could tell you all of them since I came to California. I first got
replacement training as a disabled soldier at the University of Cali-
fornia at Los Angeles, and took up architectural engineering and
drawing. After finishing the 4-year course there I went to work
with an architectural firm called Truesdale, Perrington & Newton,
architects and engineers of Los Angeles, as supervisor of construc-
tion. I was with them something over a year. I am not sure. That
has been some time ago.
After that I worked at the carpenter trade for awhile — a few years
at different places around Los Angeles County.
rX-AMERICAN PROrAfJANDA ACTIVITIES 8587
Tlieii I worked with the Airway Electrical Appliance Corporation
as a salesman (liirin<r the depression.
I think it w as alH)iit the 1st of November 1934 that I went to work
for the Ford Motor Co., in Lon<^- Beach. I worked with the Ford
Motor Co. in Long Beach until April 15, 1938, at which time the
local went on strike.
Mr. Matthews. Did yon ^ro on strike with the local ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I did.
Mr. Ma'ithews. Were yon a member of the local at the time?
Mi-. Bollino. Yes; I was.
Mr. Matthews. Is that Local 406 of the U. A. W. ?
Mr. Bolling. That is ritrlit.
Mr. Matthews. And that local is still out on strike?
Mr. Bolling. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the local Avhich a previous witness has re-
ferred to wlien he said that an order for reinstatement was granted
about 2 years ago?
Mr. Bolling. That is correct.
IVIr. ^Matthews. Where have you been employed since you went on
strike at the Long Beach Ford plant in 1938?
Mr. Bolling. In March 1939, 1 think it was either the 28th or 29th,
I Avent to work for the Studebaker Pacific Corporation. I remember
it was only 17 days, lacked 17 days of being 1 year I was out on
strike without any work whatever.
Mr. Matthews. Are you still employed at the Studebaker Pacific
Corporation ?
Mr. Bolling. I am.
Ml'. Matthews. In what capacity?
Mr. Bolling. I am in the trim department, which is called depart-
ment 210.
Mr. Matthe"ws. Have you been working there continuously since
1939?
Mr. Bolling. Practically speaking; yes. There have been a few
months that I have been off.
Mr. ^Matthews. Now, did you take an active part in the Ford
strike at Long Beach?
Mr. Bolling. I consider I did.
Mr. ^L^tthews. Will you please state briefly what it was?
Mr. Bolling. I was a member of the executive board. I was trus-
tee at the time and I was elected as a member of the finance com-
mittee to finance the strike, and shortly afterwards I was sent north
by tlie local, visiting the different cities such as Baker's Field and
in tlie Bay area and on up north into Oregon and Washington, speak-
ing at different locals, asking for funds to carry on the strike.
!Mr. Matthews. Are you a member of Local 255 at the Studebaker
Pacific Corporation plant ?
Mr. Bolling. I am.
Mr. Matthews. That is Local 255 of the United Automobile Work-
ers of America ?
Mr. Bolling. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Have you had any conmiittee position assigned to
3'ou in that local?
8588 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. BoLLiNG. I am a member of the bylaws committee which wrote
up the bylaws that were in question a few minutes ago; I am chair-
man of the educational committee, a delegate to the Auto Council
and also to the Los Angeles Industrial Union Council.
Mr. Matthews. You hold all of those positions at the present time ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is correct.
Mr. Matihews. And you are a delegate to the Los Angeles Indus-
trial Union Council?
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is right.
Mr. Matihews. And also a delegate to the Auto Council?
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is correct.
Mr. Mati^hews. What territor}' is included in that Auto Council?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I am not so sure at the present time, but my under-
standing is that it includes district 6 or, in other words, the same
area that is included in the regional area — that is, included in the
area which Michener has jurisdiction over.
Mr. Matthews. That is through several States?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I understand it includes the Auto Workers in the
western part of the United States.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been president of the Auto Coun-
cil?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. BoLLiNG. In 1038.
Mr. Matthews. Now, in your experience as president of the Atito
Council, also in the Ford strike, and recently your experience as a
member of the Los Angeles Industrial Union Council, have you come
in contact with Lew Michener?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I have.
Mr. Matthews. What is Lew Michener's position?
Mr. BoLLTNG. At the present time he is regional director of the
Los Angeles and west coast area.
Mr. Matthews. Of the U. A. W. ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Michener personally?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he is a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Michener's wife told me that he was a member of
the Conjmimist Party.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Have you ever confronted Michener himself with
the question of his membership in the Comminiist Party?
Mr. BoLLiNG. I have accused him, I think, on the floor, of being a
Communist.
Mr. Matthews. What has been his reply ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. He denied it.
Mr. Matthews. Is that all he has done?
Mr. BoLLTNG. Well, he did
Mr. Mattheavs. In what terms. I mean, did he deny it, if any?
Mr. BoLLiNG. He told me the last time that I made that asser-
tion, when I got close to him after the meeting, that he was not a
Communist and that he would get me for that and threatened to
strike me and I pulled off my glasses and handed them to a man
UX-AMI-:KI(A\ I'UOl'ACJANDA ACTIVJTIKS 8589
near me and I told him to j^o aliead, and by that time they jumped
between lis and they took Micliener out.
Ml'. Mattiif.ws. You sav Mrs. Michoncr tokl you that Michener was
a member of the Communist Party (
^fr. BoLLiXG. She did.
Mr. Matthews. Did she ever say anything about Communist Party
meetings hehl at their home?
^Ir. BoLLiNG. She said that the Communist Party met there —
parties Avere hehl in their apartment and after she and Michener had
a falling out or had — rather, wasn't getting along so very well, that
they wouldn't let her be present any more and finally moved —
woulihi't have them in the apartment any longer.
She also told me that ^Nlichener would go to Hollywood and some-
times she would be along and he v\-ould get sums of money from
people — she didn't know who they were. They would stop in front
of some place and he would go in and get money and come back
and distribute it in Los Angeles to individuals — drive up and get out
and go in, and in cases where she could hear he would say : "Here is
this money," and "you know what to do with it."
Mr. Matthews. Well, did she ever name any other parties who had
attended these Communist Party meetings in her apartment?
]Mr. Jk)LLiXG. She did. I can't remember very many of them but
I know she mentioned Bill Lyons, Sam Miller, and" Nick Ripan.
And she mentioned Slim Connolly but I am not sure whether she
said Slim Connolly was at the meetings or not, but she did say he
was a Communist.
Mr. Matthews. She told you that Slim Comiolly was a Commu-
nist ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. She did. She also told me that Michener told her
that it would be only a short time until the Communists would take
the Government of the United States over; that they had Commu-
nists api)ointed in every defense industry, in every munitions and
arms factory in the United States and could take them over at any
time — it was only a short time until they made the strike then they
would handle things their way.
I\[r. Starnes. a short time until they did what?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Take over the Government.
Mr. Starnes. AVhat was it you said about "a short time until they
pulled a general strike?"
Mr. BoELiNG. No. no. As I understood it from her, until they
started a revolution to take over the Government but she didn't put
it just that way.
Mr. Matthews. I think he also stated that Mrs. Michener stated
that the Communists had persons in all of the defense industries,
arms plants, and so forth,
Mr. Voorhis. How did she happen to tell you these things?
^Ir. BoLLiNG. I went to her son's-in-law place — I didn't know that
he was Mr. IMichener's son-indaw or that Mrs. Michener was there.
I went to him in regard to this split in the U. A. W. more than 2
years ago and I went to talk to her son-in-law — I think his name is
Henry Knoblock. He was a member of Local 400 and I was still a
member of Local 406 at that time. I went to him to talk to him in
regard to this point. He didn't happen to be at home and Mrs.
3590 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Michener was there and her daiiohter. She asked me in and I went
in and she asked me if there was anythin^r she could do, and 1 told
her I was in a little bit of an embarrassino; position and told her the
circumstances — that I was there in favor of Martin and I under-
stood that her husband was against him, and then she told me that
1 needn't be embarrassed to say anything or speak my mind because
she and Michener had separated and she did not intend to go back
with him again.
She also stated that she would be willing to testify before this com-
mittee if some protection was accorded her, because she would be
afraid to testify for fear of bodily harm unless she was protected in
some way.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Jack Orr?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. What is Jack Orr's position?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Jack Orr, at the present time, I don't know, but as
I understand it and I think according to the paper, he was editor of
the Aircraft Organizer.
Mr. Matthews. Is that the official publication of the aircraft divi-
sion of the U. A. W. ?
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did Jack Orr ever tell you that he was a mem-
ber of the Comnumist Party?
Mr. BoLLixG. He did.
Mr. Matthew^s. Do you know where it was that he told you that?
Mr. BoLLiNG. Berkeley, Calif.
Mr. Matthews. And what were the circumstances under which he
told you that?
Mr. BoLLiNG. He told me in a way — this is the way I got it — it
W'as in conversations with myself as well as other students of the
labor school in northern California, in Berkeley. They were talking
of political parties and he spoke of the Communist Party as '"we" —
"we don't think this," or "we believe this," or "we don't believe that,"
and he did not deny it and I took it from that that was an admission
that he was a Communist.
Mr. Voorhis. Was anyone else present when he told you that?
Mr. BoLLiNG. There were, but they were students and it has been —
it was in July of 1938 and I couldn't name the ones that were present
because it was kind of a general discussion. I just happened up
during the time the discussion was going on.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Ealph Dawson?
Mr. BoLLiNG. 1 know^ Ralph Dawson; yes.
Mr. Matthews. What official position does he hold?
Mr. BoLi.iNG. Rali^h Dawson at the present time is chief organizer
of the C. I. O. in the Los Angeles area.
Mr. Matthews. Has he until recently been the president of the
Los Angeles Industrial Union Council?
Mr. BoLLiNG. He became president a few months ago when the
president of the council resigned to take up a job with the O. P. M.
That man was a member of the Oil Workers' Union. I can't re-
member his name at the present time, but anyway he was president
and Dawson was vice president. He resigned and Dawson took his
place and was president up to a short time ago when they had the
election — the election was a short time ago, a month or so ago.
rX-A.MEUICAN rUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8591
Mr. Ma'ithews. Did you hoar the report from the California au-
thorities on the reoortl of Kaiph Dawson read here this afternoon^
Mr. BoLUNG. 1 did.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anythin<; that is in conflict with any
of tlie statements made in that report^
Mr. Rolling. I do not.
Mr. Matthews. Is it your ju(l<rment, based upon your knowledge of
Dawson's activities and views, that he follows the Connnunist Party
line?
Mr. Rolling. Without a doubt to my mind.
^fr. VooRHis. What do you base that statement on?
Mr. Rolling. From his nction in the council, his actino; as chair-
man of the council, on giving- the floor to certain individuals who
seem to have something in common with him and others that he
would refuse the floor that had something on their mind that wasn't
in common with them.
Mr. VooRHis. Who were the ones that he gave the floor to and
what did they say?
Mr. Rolling. That is just one of the details — that is just one of
the things; it was because of his talks and what he did, and what has
been stated here today by other witnesses, his attitude in that area
toward organizing the U. A. W. and his associates.
Mr. ^Matthews. Did you attend the sessions of the Los Angeles
Industrial Union Council recently wdien the matter of the testi-
monial dinner in honor of Leo Gallagher came up?
Mr. Rolling. I did.
Mr. ^Matthews. Were you personally present?
Mr. RoLLiN(;. I was.
Mr. Matthews. What would be your description of the reception
of the announcement of this testimonial dinner?
Mr. RoixiNG. Very enthusiastically received — well supported.
Mr. Matthews. Well supported and received with enthusiasm by
the council?
Mr. Rolling. That is correct.
Ml-. Matthews. Do you know that Leo Gallagher has been a candi-
date for public office on the Communist Party ticket in California?
Mr. Rolling. I certainly do; I voted in that election.
Mr. ]\Latthews. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Voorhis, do you have any questions?
Mr. Voorhis. Yes. .Vre you a member now of the Los Angeles
Lidustrial Union Council?
Mr. Rolling. I am a delegate to the Los Angeles Union Council.
Mr. Voorhis. Do you remember the question I asked the former
witness about the Ford strike?
Mr. Rolling. That is right.
^fr. Voorhis. Would you agree Avith what he had to say about the
orders that had been handed down from the National Labor Kela-
tions Roard and upheld by the apjiellate court to the Ford Motor
Co.?
Mr. Rolling. Rv all means I agree.
Mr. VciORiiis. Would you agree with what he said to the effect that
tactics of that kind on the part of industrialists has made your ta.sk
more difficult?
62626 — 41— vol. IJ. 2S
3592 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. BoLLiNG. That is correct — I believe that.
Mr. VooRHis. ISIr. Boiling, did Studebaker hire you although they
knew you were on strike at the Ford plant?
Mr. Bulling. Yes; they knew I was on strike and they told the
employment department, C. L. Cosby, that I was listed on the South-
ern California Incorporation blacklist. Cosby told me that he didn't
care whose blacklist I was on, that they, the Studebaker Pacific Cor-
poration, did not recognize blacklists.
I don't want to miss this opportunity to say that they are the
finest organization I have ever had the privilege to work for, an
organization which recognizes the rights of labor to organize and
tries to get along with the union.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all.
Mr. Matthews. Are you prompted here as a voluntary witness
by what you conceive to be the best interests of the C. I. O.?
Mr. Boiling. I am, by all means.
Mr. Matthews. Are you convinced that communism and nazi-
ism constitutes a very grave menace to the C. I. O. organization
generally ?
Mr. Bolling. I certainly do.
Mr. Matthews. And specifically to the organization with which
you have had personal connection?
Mr. Bolling. That is right; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Based upon your membership in a trade union, plus
your experience, your observations, and your contacts with union
men on the west coast and elsewhere, you consider the great rank
and file of them to be loyal and patriotic to this country?
Mr. Bolling. I do, the majority of them.
Mr. Starnes. Eegardless of whether thev are in the C. I. O. or
A. F. ofL.?
Mr. Bolling. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And that goes for most of the leaders also?
Mr. Bolling. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. I want to ask you if on the other hand, however,
based upon that same knowledge, experience, and personal contact
with them daily, if it has not been, in your judgment, the purpose
of the Communist Party through what influence they can wield in
trade unionism, to sabotage our defense program, to slow down
production of defense material for security purposes, on the excuse,
fii-st, that the}^ are trying to improve the lot of labor and, secondly,
because they are opposed to this country embarking on an "im-
perialist war"?
ISIr. Bolling. That is much better than I can describe it. I sub-
scribe absolutely to that view.
Mr. Starnes. That would be an accurate statement as to the at-
titude of the Communists who are in trade unions on the west coast
and elsewhere?
Mr. Bolling. That is absolutely true.
Mr. Starnes. Have they constantly sought to bring about discord,
dissatisfaction, and disruption among trade unions and in industry
jilong the west coast, which would have the effect of slowing down
production and of impeding the effort of the American people to
provide security for themselves?
un-a:mkkican propaganda activities 8593
Ml'. HoLLiNG. Tlmt is my personal opinion and my view exactly
und moreover, they seem to have the policy that if they can't rule
or get control oi" the union the next step is to break it up, rule or
ruin seems to be the policy and there is no doubt in my mind about
that.
Mr. Starnes. Any other questions, Mr. Voorhis or Mr. Mason ? Any
questions, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. BoixiXG. I have a couple of statements here I would like to
make to clarify a situation. One of them is concerning Ralph Reed,
of Los .Vngeles, who was mentioned by a former witness.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. BoLLiNG. I know Ralpli Reed very well, and I know the circum-
stances under which he visited this meeting that was spoken of. They
told him that they were going to organize — this is his stoi*y to me, and
1 know he is very anticommunistic — they told him they were going to
organize dairy workers and wanted him to go along, and they got him
in the car and took him to a private home to this meeting.
He stayed for a while to see what it was all aboiut, and he began to
realize what it was about. They sent around a book for him to sign to
get his signature, and he refused to sign it; and they told him, "Oh, it
is only a guest book." He said : "Well, I don't care what it is ; I am not
going to sign my name to it," and he was very indignant because they
got him to that meeting. He didn't make any secret about his disap-
proval.
I just want to make it clear that Ralph Reed is certainly not in any
sense of the word a Communist, nor is he sympathetic to the Commu-
nist Party.
There is only one other thing that I would like to say a word on, and
that is regarding the strike at the Ford Motor Co.
When we first went out, I don't think we had been out but a few hours
until v.e had a representative from the I. W. O. — the International
Workers Order, who told Mr. Carson in my presence and others whom
I don't remember — asked us if we needed an ambulance and a nurse
and a doctor over there. We were a little bit surprised and asked him
where he was from, and he told us; and we wanted to know why we
should need an ambulance, nurse, and doctor, and he said : "Oh, you are
going to have trouble ; I can see that now." He said : "We will keep a
nurse and ambulance and doctor here all the time."
We told him we couldn't do it, and he said : "It won't cost anything."
He said it would be a courtesy of the organization to furnish those
things.
]Mr. Starxes. Anything further?
Mr. BoLLixG. That is all.
^Ir. Starnes. Thank you, Mr. Boiling.
Now. Dr. Matthews, do you have anything else you want to present
at tliis time?
]Mr. Matthews. No, sir ; I haven't Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. There are a number of questions which have been
raised by the testimony today. The Chair is impressed, as I think
the committee is, with the evident sincerity of the members of the
trade unions to rid their unions of any influence which is subversive
in its character, and which tends not only to discredit trade unions
themselves, but in this critical period of the country to disturb our
national unity and disrupt production for security.
g594 UN-AMEKICAX PKOl'AGANUA ACTIVITIES?
At a later meeting or session of this subcommittee, the committee
expects to call before it, if they are not willing to appear voluntarily,
some of those whose names which were mentioned in the testimony
today, to ascertain their attitude toward this Government of ours
and toward the questions raised.
There is one question that I would like to ask one person if he
is present at this time. I would like to ask Mr. Elmer J. Freitag a
question. Is Mr. Freitag present ?
Mr. Freitag. That is me ; right here.
Mr. Starnes. Are you Mr. Freitag?
Mr. Freffag. That is rio;ht.
Mr, Starnes. Do you mmd answering a question ?
Mr. Freitag. No.
TESTIMONY OF ELMER J. FEEITAG, PRESIDENT, LOCAL 683, UNITED
AUTOMOBILE WORKERS, CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZA-
TIONS, INGLEWOOD, CALIF.
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give before the
committee, shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Freitag. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Have a seat. Mr. Freitag, where is your home?
Mr. Freitag. Inglewood, Calif.
Mr. Starnes. You are an American citizen?
Mr. Freitag. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. You were born in California?
Mr. Freitag. That is right. I was born here and both of my
parents were born here — not in California — did you say in Califor-
nia?
Mr. Starnes. Where were you born?
Mr. Freitag. Chicago, 111.
Mr. Starnes. What is the month, da}', and year of your birth?
Mr. Freitag. The da}' and year?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Freitag. The date is March 2, 1907.
Mr. Starnes. You are a member of the C. I. O. ?
Mr. Freitag. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. What local?
Mr. Freitag. Local 683.
Mr. Starnes. You are a member of Local 683 ?
Mr. Freitag. That is correct.
Mr. Starnes. In what plant and in what affiliate ?
Mr. Freitag. I am at North American Aviation, Inc., of Ingle-
wood, Calif.
Mr. Starnes. And what union are you affiliated with? What is
your union ? Is it the Automobile Workers ?
Mr. Freitag. Aircraft division of the United Automobile Workers
of America.
Mr. Starnes. How long have you been a member of that organiza-
tion ?
Mr. Freitag. How long?
UN-AMEIUCAN PROPArxANDA ACTIVITIES 8595
^Ir. Stahnes. Yes.
Mr. Freitag. I would say, o;enerally speakinji, about 3 years.
Mr. Starnes. How lonji' have you lived in California?
Mr. Freitac. I have lived in Califoi-nia about 5 or G years.
Mr. Starnes. How lon<>: have you been entra<i;ed in some sort of
profession — I mean by that how lonfj have you been engaged as either
a worker in an automobile industry or aircraft industry, and so
forth?
INIr. Freitag. How long have I followed the aircraft profession; is
that your question?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Ml-. Freitag. Ever since I came out of high school and spent some
3'ears in college.
Mr. Starnes. Did you go to college?
IVIr. Freitag. Yes ; I went to college.
]Mr. Starnes. "Where did you go?
]Mr. Freitag. I went to Crane Junior College and Armour Institute
of Technology, both in Chicago, 111.
Mr. Starnes. Do you hold any official position in your local?
Mr. Freitag. Yes ; I am president of Local 683.
Mr. Starnes. Do you hold any position in addition to that — do
you hold any district or international office, or can you hold an inter-
national office and a local office also?
Mr. Freitag. No: I am just a worker in the plant and president of
the union, that is all.
Mr. Starnes. I will ask you if on the 8th Jay of January 1938,
jou registered in Los Angeles County as a member of the Communist
Party there?
Mr. Freitag. I would say that I am not a member of the party.
Mr. Starnes. At the present time?
]Mr. Freitag. Or have ever been a member of the party.
Mr. Starnes. Did you register though and does it appear there in
the records of the Honorable W. M. Kerr, registrar of voters, Los
Angeles County, as a Communist voter on January 8, 1938?
Mr. Freitag. Yes: I registered. After about 2 months I changed
my affiliation to the — before I could even vote, to the Progressive
Party : that is correct.
Mr. Starnes. All right, that is all.
Any questions, ^Ir. Voorhis?
Mr. Voorhis. No: I don't think so.
Mr. Starnes. Xow, is Mr. Lew Michener present ?
Mr. Michener. Yes.
TESTIMONY OF LEW MICHENER
Mr. Starnes. Will you j)lease stand and raise your right hand? Do
you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give before this com-
mittee, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so hel|) you God?
Mr. INIlCHENER. I do.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Michener, the committee is anxious to hear you at
a subsequent hearing and I would like to know, for your convenience
as well as that of the connnittee, will you be in the city for several days?
Ml-. Michener. At this time I am unable to state definitely on that,
but I imaiiine I will be here at least over the week end. Congressman.
3596 UN-AMERICAJ!^ PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Could you arrange or can we arrange with you for a
hearing at your convenience 1 day next week ?
Mr. MicHENER. I will be only too happy to appear before your com-
mittee. My address is the Hamilton Hotel.
Mr. Starnes. The committee is going into executive session now
and as soon as we determine when the committee can again be present
for a hearing, we will get in touch with you to arrange for your appear-
ance.
Mr. MicHENER. As a patriotic citizen I want to contribute my testi-
mony.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you very much.
The committee will stand adjourned until further notice.
( Whereupon, the committee at 3 : 15 p. m., adjourned without date.)
INYESTKiATlON OF TN-AMERICAN PROPAdANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee
TO IN^^ESTIGATE Un-AmERICAN ACTIVITIES,
Washington, D. C
The subcommittee met at 2 : 30 p. m., in the Banking and CiiiTency
Committee room, Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present : Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee) and
Voorhis.
Also present : Mr. Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. The committee will come to order.
The committee is holding a session this afternoon for the purpose
of hearing the testimony of Mr. Balint. Dr. Matthews, you may
proceed with the examination.
TESTIMONY OF ALEX BALINT, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, NATIONAL
DIE CASTERS ASSOCIATION
(Mr. Balint was accompanied by his attorney, Edward Lamb.)
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Balint. I do.
Mr. Matthews. What is your name?
Mr. Balint. Alex Balint.
Mr. Matthews. Where do you live?
Mr. Balint. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born, Mr. Balint?
Mr. Balint. I was born in Hungary.
Mr. Matthews. AVhen?
Mr. Balint. April 12, 1912.
Mr. Matthews. How long have vou been in the United States?
Mr. Balint. Since 1920.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Balint, Well, I have just been informed through the news-
papers that my citizenship has been held up — final papers.
Mr. Matthew^s. On what ground was your citizenshij^ held up,
do you know?
8597
8598 rx-A:s[ERirAx propaganda activities!
Mr. Balint. I take it that the o:ronnds were because I was active
on behalf of the hiboring people of this country.
Mr. Matthews. Have you received any notice of any grounds?
Mr. Bai.int. I have received no notice whatsoever.
Mr. i\lATTHEWs. You don't know whether or not your application
has been held up ^
Mr. Balint. I have received word throuoh the newspapers and
it seems peculiar that they should be held u]) at a time of a threat-
ened aluminum strike — at the time the strike had not been called
and I fail — I mean, I want to know what the connection between
holding up my final citizenship papers is and my activities on behalf
of the workers of the Aluminum Co,
Mr. Matthews. In what court did you make application for citi-
zenship '^
Mr. Balint. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. JMatthews. Before what judge?
Mr. Balint. AVell, it wasn't before a judge; it was before the
naturalization office there.
Mr. Matthews. Have you had any hearings on your citizenship
papers?
Mi-. Balint. I have passed all examinations, sir.
Mr. Matthews. When was your application first made?
Mr. Balint. Apjilication was first made in 1938.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever gone under any other name than the
name of Alex Balint ?
Mr. Balint. I have never used any other name.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have a middle name?
Mr. Balint. I have no middle name.
Mr. Matthews. You have never gone under any other name than the
name of Balint; is that correct?
Mr. Balint. No other name except that.
Mr. Matthews. When you arrived in this country in 1920 you were
about 8 years old ; is that right?
Mr. Balint. Six or 8.
Mr. Matthews. Where did you obtain your first employment ?
Mr. Balint. Well, I have worked ever since I was 12 years old.
Mr. Matthews. Where did you first go to work ?
Mr. Balint. I first started when I was 12 years old to picking beans
out in the country to help support the family.
Mr. Matthews. In what State was that?
Mr. Balint. In Indiana.
Mr. Matthews. And after that when was your next employment ?
Mr. Balint. When I was 15 years old. I left school to get a job in
a steel foundry.
Mr. Matthews. Where was that?
Mr. Balint. In Indiana.
Mr. Matthews. In what town?
Mr. Balint. Indianapolis.
Mr. Mattllews. In what steel mill?
Mr. Balint. Federal Foundry.
Mr. Matthews. And how long did you work there?
Mr. Balint. I worked there approximately 2 years.
Mr, Matthews. Do you remember the years of that employment?
UN-AMERICAN PKUl'ACJANDA ACTIVITIES 8599
Mr. Balint. No; I don't. It would be very hard to recall.
Mr. Matthews. After you left the foundry in Indianapolis, where
did you have your next employment ?
Mr. Balint. Well, for a time I was on C. W. A., I think they called
it at that time.
Mr. Matthews. Where was that?
Mr. Balint. That was in Cleveland.
Mr. Matthews, How lon*^ have you lived in Cleveland ?
]\Ir. Balint. Oh. I have lived in Cleveland now otf and on for
approximately 12 years.
Mr. Matthews. After you left your employment with the C. W. A.,
where did you work?
Mr. Balint. I ^loi employment at the Republic Steel Corporation.
Mr. Matthews. What year was that?
Mr. Balint. Approximately the latter part, I believe, of 1934 or
1933, 1934 and 1935 I worked there. The years mioht not be right
but it is right in that period.
Mr. Matthews. Was that at Republic Steel, in CleA'eland?
Mr. Balint. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Were vou dismissed from Republic — from Republic
Steel?
Mr. Baunt. Yes; I was discharged because I was president of an
A. F. of L. labor union there at the time.
Mr. ]\r\TTHEWs. When did you have your next employment after
leaving Re])ublic Steel?
Mr. Balint. My next employment after I was discharged, I pro-
ceeded to organize workers into the unions of the C. I. O.
Mr. Matthews. What unions?
Mr. Balint. The Steel Workers' Organizing Conmiittee.
Mr. Matthews. AVhere did you work for the Steel Workers' Organ-
izing Committee ?
Mr. Balint. In Cleveland. Ohio.
Mr. Matthews. How long?
Mr. Balint. Approximately 2 years.
Mr. Matthews. Did you organize for any other unions than the
Steel AVorkers' Organizing Committee?
Mr. Balint. I have organized for the Cleveland Industrial Union
Council. That is the central labor body of the C. I. O. in Cleveland.
Mr. ^Iatthews. What particular field of workers were you organiz-
ing among them?
Mr. Balint. Well, it was pretty general.
^Ir. Matthews. Have you ever been arrested ?
Mr. B\lint. Yes; I have.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Ml'. B slint. I was arrested when I was 16 years old.
Mr. Matthews. AVere you convicted ?
Mr. Balint. I was.
Mr. Matthews. AAliat was the charge?
Mr. l^ALTNT. AVell. the charge was that a friend and I went to Chi-
cago on a vacation
Mr. Matthews. AAVll. you weren't charged with going to Chicago
on a vacation ; you were charged with stealing an automobile, weren't
vou ?
8QQ0 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Ealint. No; I wasn't charoed with stealing any automobile.
Mr, Matthews. What was the charge ?
Mr. Balint. If you will just let me explain I will tell you the charge.
Mr. Matthews. Well, you weren't charged with going to Chicago
on a vacation ?
Mr. Balint. I am proceeding to explain fully if you will just allow
me, sir.
Mr. Matthews. All right, go ahead.
Mr. Balint. I went to Chicago on a vacation with a friend of mine
and two people that we went to see there had an automobile and
wanted to know if we would go riding with them, and we did. It
turned out to be a stolen automobile. The friend that I was with, his
father intervened for him and he was let off, while I didn't have no
one to intervene for me and I was convicted.
Mr. Matthews. A¥hat was the charge?
Mr. Balint. The charge was, as I recall it, auto theft.
Mr. Matthews. Well, that is what I asked you and you said "No."
Mr. Balint. Well, as I said, I didn't steal the automobile; I was
merely riding in it.
Mr. Matthews. All right; did you serve a term?
Mr. Balint. I did.
Mv. Matthews. Where ?
Mr. Balint. In the reformatory.
Mr. Matthews. At Pontiac?
Mr. Balint. That is light.
Mr. Matthews. Illinois?
Mr. Balint. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. How long a term did you serve ?
Mr. Balint. Ap])roximately 11 months.
Mr. Matthews. When did you join the Communist Party?
Mr. Lamb. Oh, just a second. You don't have to answer that. Do
you want to discuss that ? I mean you don't have to attempt to answer
that. It is a loaded question.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, the attorney says the witness does
not have to answer such a question.
Mr. Lamb. I insist he doesn't have to answer the question. I assume
we are going to conduct a legitimate hearing here.
Mr. Starnes. Certainly, we don't conduct any other kind.
Mr. Lamb. I am sure we won't today.
Mr. Starnes. That is a ])erfectly legitimate question.
Mr. Lamb. Well, it isn't a proper question, and Mr. Matthews should
be the first one to know it. Now, I think this witness should be
advised by the committee what his rights are.
Mr. VooRHis. Let us ask the question whether he did join the
Communist Party?
Mr. Balint. Will you advise me of my rights?
Mr. Starnes. Answer the question whether you did join the
Communist Party.
Mv. Balint. I never joined the Communist Party or any other
political organization.
Mr. Starnes. And you have never been affiliated with the Com-
munist Party in any sha])e, form, or fashion?
Mr. Balint. I luive never been affiliated with any political
organization.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8601
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever been affiliated witli tlie Cnrnmunisl;
Party?
Mr. Balint. I have never been affiliated with the Communist Party
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Earl Browder personally?
Mr. Balint. No: I do not.
]Mr. Ma'ithkws. You have never met him?
Mr. Balint. I have never met him.
Mr. ^[atitiews. Did you ever ur,ire attendance upon any of Brow-
der's meetin<>s or upon" anv Browder meeting, in the city of Cleve-
land?
Mr. Balint. I want to say now for the record that I am not inter-
ested in connuunism or any other foreign "isms," and I resent being
questioned on communism because I don't know anything about it.
Mr. IMatthews. Mr. Chairman, I would like for the witness to
answer the question.
Mr. Starnes. Answer the question.
Mr. La?,ib. Tell him this is nothing but an attempt to smear our
organization.
Mr. Balint. This is nothing but an attempt to smear our organiza-
tion and to smear the purpose for wliicli we are striking for.
Mr. Starnes. You are being asked, Mr. Witness, perfectly legiti-
mate and pertinent ci[uestions. You were asked whether you were a
member of the Communist Party and you can answer that ei<:her
"Yes"' or ""No." You have been asked whether you associated with
Earl Browder in any particular activities along any particular en-
deavor, and that is a perfectly legitimate question, because everybody
in the country knows that Earl Browder has been for many years
the head of that party in this counry and that is the reason you are
asked that question.
Mr. Balint. I have testified, sir, I do not know Earl Browder.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Matthews. I will repeat the question : Have you ever urged
attendance u])on any meeting addressed by Earl Browder in the city
of Cleveland?
Mr. Balint. I have testified that I am not interested in communism,
therefore I would not be urging anyone to attend any Connnunist
meetings.
Mr. ^Iatthews. Have you ever done so ?
Mr. Balint. I have never done so.
Mr. Matthews. Are you acquainted with a lady named Vera
Apergis ?
Mr. Balint. Vera Apergis?
Mr. Maitiiews. Apergis — A-p-e-r-g-i-s?
Mr. Balint. (No response.)
Mr, Matthews. Do you know her?
Mr. Balint. Yes; I believe I do, if it is the one we are thinking of.
Mr. Ma'ithews. Under what circumstances did you know Mrs.
Apergis ?
Mr. Balint. I was organizing for the C. I. O., helping to clear
up a situation there in the W. P. A. organization at the time, for
the Industrial Union Council, and I believe that she was one of the
disrupters that was thrown out of the organization.
Mr. ^Matthews. And where was that; in Cleveland?
Mr. Balint. In Cleveland.
3g02 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr, Matthews. When you say ''disrupter,'' what do you mean by
that?
Mr. Balint. I mean a person who attempts to break up hibor
organizations.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. What was her position in the organization?
Mr. Balint. For a time she was the president of it,
Mr. Matthews. Who appointed you to your position?
Mr. VooRHis. The president of what?
Mr. Matthews. Of the union, I understood him to say,
Mr, Balint, She was president of one of the sewing clubs there-
sewing union,
Mr. Matthews, Of the C. I. O. ?
Mr. Balint. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. And she was trying to break it up ?
Mr. Balint. Yes.
Mr, Matthews. This was a C. I. O. union?
Mr. Balint. It was.
Mr. Matthews. Industrial Sewing Union?
Mr. Balint. It was.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have a hand in having her thrown out
of the union?
Mr. Balint. No organizer of any C. I. O. union has a hand in
throwing out anyone — anyone out of any union. If the membership
feels that they want to vote out someone that is their privilege, and
in this case they exercised that privilege and voted her out of office.
Mr. Matthews. Who appointed you to your position in this union
where you were associated with Mrs. Apergis?
Mr. Balint. I was not — never associated with Mrs. Apergis and
would not care to be linked up in any association whatsoever with
her.
Mr. Matthews. Why did it take you several seconds, to put it
mildly, to tell the committee whether or not you ever knew Mrs.
Apergis ?
j\fr. L\MB. I think the witness certainly should be given the benefit
of the Chair's advice as to the propriety of such type of examina-
tion, as to why he took several seconds to answer a question, when
he didn't even know who the questioner was talking about,
Mr, Matthews. I would like to point out that it took a very long
while for him, to refresh his memory but now he seems to know a
great deal about Mrs. Apergis.
Mr. Lamb. Tell him you didn't know who he was talking about.
Mr. Matthews. Just in case the record doesn't show the length
of time it took him to answer the question
Mr. Balint. I merely wanted to make sure that it was the person
I had in mind. I haven't seen or heard of her for years.
Mr. Matthews. What year was that?
Mr. Balint. And in my work I meet a lot of i)eople — thousands
of them.
Mr. Matthews. And in what year was that that vou last knew
her?
Mr. Balint. I believe that was in 1938.
Mr. Matthews. It was in 1939, wasn't it, Mr. Balint ?
UX-AMElilCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8603
Mr. Balint. "Well. T am not going to argue about a couple of
months.
Mr. Matthews. Well, aren't you sure?
Mr. Balint. I don't recall offhand. It is somewhere in that
period.
Mr. Matthews. You say that was "years ago"?
Mr, Balint. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Two years, to be exact?
Mr. Balint. Two or three years ago.
IVIr. Matthews. Did you ever show your Communist Party mem-
bership book to Mrs. Apergis?
Ml'. Balint. That is a downright lie. I never had any Com-
munist Pai-ty membership book, nor have I ever been affiliated in any
way, shape, or form with any connnunistic organizations.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I don't know what the witness
refers to when he says "it is a downright lie.'' I asked him a ques-
tion and I would like to have him answer it.
Mr. Starnes. Your answer is that 3^ou did not show her your
Comnumist Party membership book?
Mr. Balint. I would have no book to show her. I testified that I
was not a member and therefore I would notJiave a book to show her.
Mr. Starnes. In reply to Dr. Matthews, your answer is that you
■did not show her any Communist Party membership book?
Mr. Balint. I didn't have any Communist Party membership
book. My answer was that I was not in any way affiliated with
any communistic organizations, and therefore I would not have
any Communist book to show her,
Mr, Starnes. I am asking you the direct question : Have you ever
had a Communist Party memlDership book ?
Mr, Balint. I never did have.
Mr. Starnes, And you never did show her a Communist Party
membership book?
Mr. Balint. If I never had any, I couldn't show any.
Mr. Starnes. Therefore you didn't show one?
Mr. Balint. (Xo response.)
Mr. Starnes. Let us not beg the question; say "No" if you didn't
or "Yes" if you did. It is not difficult for you to say that, is it?
Mr. Baltnt. I would not have any book to show and therefore I
didn't show any.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Did vou ever work in the South?
Mr. Balint. In the South?
IVIr. Matthews. Yes.
Mr. Balint. (No response.)
Mr. Matthews. In any southern State?
Mr. Balint. I have never worked nor have I ever been in any
Southern States. I lieard the South is very bad for labor organizers.
i\Ir. MA'niiEws. Do vou know a man by the name of Andrew
Balunek?
Mr. Balint. No.
Mr. Matthews. "Will you do youi' best to refresh your recollection,
if you wish to?
8Q()4 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. B \LiNT. Go aliead, help me along, maybe I can remember him.
Mr. Matthews. Then answer whether or not you know Andrew
Baliinek^
Mr. Lamb. I think the witness already answered that he didn't
know him.
Mr. Matthews. I would like for the witness to have an oppor-
tunity to refresh his recollection and if he cares to, to change his
answer.
Mr. Balint. Offhand I would say that from the name — the name
does not sound familiar to me. Perhaps if you can acquaint me with
the things that happened or something, I can remember him.
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, how long will it take you to conclude
your examination of this witness? We better let the record show
who is appearing for the witness as attorney.
Mr. Lamb. My name is Edward Lamb, attornej', Toledo, Ohio. I
am also general counsel for the National Association of Die Casting
Workers, affiliated with the C. I. O., which is involved in the nego-
tiations with the Ahniiinum Co., which are now taking place before
the Mediation Board.
Mr. Starnes. I would like to ask a question : Do you know Ken-
neth Eggert?
Mr. Balint. I have read about Kenneth Eggert.
Mr. Starnes. Do vou know him? You can answer my question
^'Yes^' or "No."
Mr. Balint. I do not know Kenneth Eggert.
Mr. Starnes. That is all I want to know,
Mr. Balint. 1 have read about Kenneth Eggert.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever meet him?
Mr. Balint. I never met Kenneth Eggert.
Mr. Starnes. All right, go ahead. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not he works for the
same union you do?
Mr. Balint. It is my information that he does.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where he works for tlie same union?
Mr. Balint. The last I recall, it was somewhere iii Kansas City or
somewhere west.
Mr. IVIatthews. How long ago was that ?
Mr. Balint. Oh, that was several weeks ago.
Mr. Matthews. What is your position with the National Die Casters
Association ?
Mr. Balint. My position is— I am the regional director in the
Cleveland area.
Mr. Matthews. And how long have you held that position ?
Mr. Balint. Approximately 2 years.
Mr. Matthews. Was that an elective position or appointive posi-
tion ?
Mr. Balint. I was elected by the national board of the organization.
Mr, Matthews. Who is the national president of the union?
Mr. Balint. The national president is George Peacock.
Mr. Mattheavs. Who is tlie national secretary-treasurer?
My. Balint. Edward Cheyfitz is executive secretary.
Mr. Matthews. Edward Cheyfitz is executive secretary?
Mr. Balint. Yes.
UN-AMERICAN I'UOrAGANDA A( "ll\ i il KS 8605
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Balint, do yini believe that the Coiunmiiiyt
Party is a menace to organized labor?
Mr. Balint. 1 don't know the program nor the policies of the Com-
munist Party and tlieivfoi-e I woidd not be in a position to answer a
question of that kind. If you would acquaint me with what they do,
perhaps on the various thin«>;s that you bring out I would answer.
Mr. Matphews. Have you ever encountered any Communists in your
woi'k as an oroanizer?
Mr. Balint. Not that I recall. It is not my purpose going around
asking members of our organization what their political opinions are
or affiliations might be.
iNlr. Matthews. You believe the Connnunists have the same right to
a place and activity in a labor organization as any other political
group ?
]Mr. Balint. I might say that in our oi-ganization we pursue a policy
that where an employer hires a grou]) of workers to work for liini we —
all those workers working in a particular plant are eligible for mem-
bership in our union.
Mr. ^Matthews. Do you believe that Communists or Communist
Party members properly should be officers of a labor organization^
Mr. Balint. I don't know any, therefore, I wouldn't know. I would
say that the workers in our union have a free choice by secret ballot to
elect their own officers and they exercise that right.
Mr. ]\Iatthi:ws. In other words you decline to say that you do n(jt
believe that Communists have no place in official positions in a union ?
Mr. Balint. I don't know, sir, of any Communists in our union.
Mr. Starnes. In your o]^inion as a labor man, do you think they
should have such positions?
]SIr. Balint. I have said that our constitution provides who is and
who is not eligible for membership in our organization, and it states
that any worker working in a given plant is eligible for membership
in the organization, provided, of course, that he is not of a super-
visory capacity.
ISIr. Starnes. That does not answer the question. You don't care
whether he is a Democrat or a Ile])ublican or Communist or a Nazi
or anything else?
Mr. Balint. We make it a practice
Mr. Starnes. I know, but without making a speech, I am asking
you the question whether or not it makes any difference whether your
union leaders are Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Nazis, or
anything else?
Mi-. Balint. I am not making a speech or at least I am trying to be
brief as possible.
Mr. Starnes. You can be brief by just saying ''Yes" or "No." In
other words it is your philosophy that it doesn't make any difference,
insofar as you are concerned, whether the officers of your unions are
members of tlie Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Com-
munist Party, the Nazi Party, or any other party; it ctoesn't make
any difference?
IVIr. La^fb. Tell him that you will make your own answers,
Mr. Balint. If you will ])ermit me. I will make my own answer, sir.
IMr. Lamb. Tell him your constitution provides for the eligibility of
members.
33()g UX-AMEUirAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVrTIP:S
Mr. Balint. The answer is our constitution provides as to who is
eligible and who is not eligible for membership in our organization
and you nor
Mr. Starnes. Just a moment. Does your constitution prohibit a
man from being an officer of your union if he is a Democrat?
Mr. Balint. Our constitution, as I stated, doesn't
Mr. Starxes. Answer that question and then you can go ahead and
explain your answer. Answer my question first and then you can
make any explanation you want to.
Mr. Lamb. I think, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Attorney, he can answer the question and then if
he wants to qualify his answers in any way he may do so.
Mr. Lamb. But I am afraid you are not giving him an opportunity
to answer the question.
Mr. Starnes. Does your constitution ]3rohibit a Democrat from be-
ing a member of your organization ?
Mr. Balint. Our constitution
Mr. Starnes. Answer ''Yes" or "No" to that and then you can
make your explanation.
Mr. Balint. Our constitution
Mr. Starnes. Now, wait a minute, answer the question.
Mr. Balint. It does not.
Mr. Starnes. Now, make any statement you want to.
Mr. Balint. The constitution of our organization provides that any
worker working in our particular industry or any worker working
in any plant related to the industry, is eligible for membership in
our organization.
Mr. Starnes. All right. Now, that being true it does not make any
diiference if he is a Republican; does it?
Mr. Lamb. That is right.
Mr. Balint. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. And it doesn't make any difference if he is a Commu-
nist; does it?
Mr. Balint. We never ask people what their political opinions are.
Mr. Starnes. Therefore it doesn't make any difference to you
w^hether he is a Communist or not ?
Mr. Balint. Like all other unions, we take in everybody.
Mr. Starnes. You answered very courteously, it does not make any
difference if he was a Democrat and it did not make any difference if
he was a Republican, and then you made your statement. Now, an-
swer my question. If you want to say anything further, all right, but
does it make any difference to you if he is a Communist ?
Mr. Balint. If an employer hires a man in a particular plant
Mr. Starnes. You made that statement.
Mr. Balint. He is eligible for membership in our union.
Mr. Starnes. Now, I want you to answer my question. You have
made that statement already. Does it make any difference to you
whether or not he belongs to the Communist Party so far as the union
is concerned ?
Mr. Balint. So far as the union is concerned, I can only say that as
a responsible officer of my union I follow out the program and policies
that our conventions democratically set forth in the constitution.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8607
Mr. Starnf.s. And in reply to questions whicli have been put to you
in a courteous numner time and time again here, you fail and refuse to
state whether or not it makes any difference whether your members
are members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Balint. (No response.)
Mr. Lamb. Tell him you want to give a complete answer to every
question that he asks you, and that you want to explain the constitution
of your union.
Mr. 8TAENES. You are not prepared to answer that question, then,
unequivocally?
Mr. Lamb. He is fully prepared if you will just give him an oppor-
tunity to answer the question.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Attorney, he answered similar questions, identi-
cal questions, with reference to whether or not it made any difference
whether members of his union belonged to the Democratic or Republi-
can Part}', but the moment we ask about the Communist Party he is
unable, ai^parently, to give a direct answer to the question.
Mr. Balint. That, sir, is, well
Mr. Starnes. You better be sure what you are going to say.
Mr. Balint. I thought I had answered the question.
Mr. Starne's. No; you did not.
Mr. Lamb. Yes; he did.
Mr. Starnes. I asked you frankly to answer my question as you
answered questions propounded to you as to whetlier or not it made
any ditf'erence whether a member or officer of your union was a
Democrat or Rej^ublican, both of which questions you answered that
it made no difference.
Now, you don't have anything to say as to Communist Party mem-
i)ers who might be officials or members of your union?
Mr. Balint. I said, sir, that I as an individual am not authorized
to say wlio is eligible and who is not eligible to join this organization.
Mr. Starnes. AVell, is a Conmiunist eligible to join?
Mr. Balint. If he is working in a given plant — any group of
workers — anvbodv is eligible to join the membership just like you
do in the A. F. of L. or C. I. O.
A[r. Starnes. Now, we are getting somewhere. Could a member
of the Gei-man-American Bund join your organization? Do you
welcome them into your membership?
Ml'. Balint. How do I know who is a member of the German-
xVmerican Bund {
Mr. Starnes. Do you accept members of the National Socialist
Party, the Nazi Partv. and members of the German-American Bund
int(k a union if they are working in the plant? Are they eligible for
membership?
Mr. Balint. I have no infornuition on that, as to any Communists
cf Nazis or anybody else.
Mr. A'ooRiiis. Let us put it this way: I tliink I understand about
youi- constitution and the fact that you feel that anyone who is
working in a ])lant should be a member of the union, but let me ask
you this: Do you believe that it would be a l)ad thing foi- your
union if it happened that a person who was a Communist oi' a mem-
ber of the German-American Bund, were elected to a position or
02626 11— vol. 14 29
8608 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITTES
chosen in some maimer to a position of leadership and influence,
wliere he could affect what happened to the union in its negotiations
and in its work?
Mr. Balint. My answer to that would be that if the next national
convention of our union wants to define or eliminate any group of
people being members of the union, they have that right. I haven't
got that right.
Mr. VooRHis. I did not ask you if you had tliat right nor do I
expect you to exercise a right that you haven't got. I simply asked
you whetlier you believed or didn't believe that it would be a bad
thing for the union if a person who was a Communist or a member
of the German- American Bund should happen to be elected or ap-
pointed to a position of ofRcial trust in the union?
Mr. Balint. ( No response. )
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, do you have anything fuither of this
witness ?
Mr. Matthews. I have two questions.
Mr. Starnes. Go ahead.
Mr. Lamb. Wait a second; I think Mr. Voorhis is entitled to an
answer to his question.
Mr. Voorhis. I woukl like to have an answer. What would you say
to that?
Mr. Balint. Will you repeat your question?
Mr. Voorhis. Understanding the constitution of the union, I asked
you whether you believed that it would be a bad thing for your or-
ganization and harmful to it, if a person that was a Communist or
a member of the German-American Bund should be elected or ap-
pointed to a position of official trust where he could represent the
union and carry on its activities and make decisions?
Mr. Balint. Just 1 minute and I will answer that question.
Mr. Starnes. Let the record show the witness is conferring with
his attorney before he answers the question. He must have legal
advice before he can answer such a question as that.
Mr. Lamb. In that particular subject, Mr. Starnes, I appreciate
your suggestion that it should show of record if a witness consults
with his attorney. I am personally not ashamed of advising the
witness as counsel before this committee or any other place.
Mr. Starnes. That is quite all right, but let the witness answer the
question.
Mr. Lamb. May I make a statement for tlie record ?
Mr. Starnes. No: it is not necessary. There was simply a delay
in the proceedings here and I merely said let the record show that
the witness is conferring with his attorney.
Mr. Voorhis. I think my question is plain enough, isn't it?
Mr. Baijnt. I Avoukl say, relative to your question, that the policy
of our organization, and I have nothing to say as to that policy in the
fonnulation of it, is set by convention.
Mr. Voorhis. I did not ask you about the policy. I understand the
policy. I just asked you how you would feel about a situation like
that.'
Mr. Balint. Well, how I feel doesn't particularly matter.
Mr. Voorhis. But it might matter
rX-A.MKUirAX 1'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8609
Mr. Ballnt. I am an oilict'i of a labor organization and I must
necessarily follow out their policy and program as they decide by
tlemocratic convention.
Mr. Vo(^iniis. As a member of the organization though, you have
a I'ight to the floor and you have a right to take a position.
Mr. Balint. 1 take ])ositions. I can assure j^ou.
Ml-. V(iORHis. If you knew that a man was a Communist or a
meriiber of the German-American Bund would you oppose his elec-
tion to an office^
Mr. Balixt. Well, it is very ditlit-uli, sir, to answer "if" questions.
It is always on some supposition. If you would give me a specific
px:imi)le as to something that an individual did I would tell you
whether I woidd opi)ose him on the floor or not.
Mr. L.v.MB. Ask him for a 3 cents an hour raise.
Mr. Balint. We are asking for a -tVo-cent general wage increase
from the Aluminum Co. That company has been tied with the
Nazi-Fascist industries in Germany and we are called Communists
for that reason.
Mr. Vooi{iiis. I hold no brief for the Aluminum Co.
Ml-. Balixt. And I call on this committee now to investigate the
Aluminum Co. and its Nazi tie-ups to deteniiine why they provoked
this strike out in Cleveland, after we had worked for 2 days to ask
tliat tlie men not strike, but that they couldn't — but that they con-
tinue working while we mediate the strike.
^Ir. VooKHis. You mean the company refused to have them con-
tinue working? :
Mr. Balixt. I said that someone provoked that strike. We havei
settled all of that back home but when we came here there is a
sudden walk-out and our negotiating committee maintains that this
w;ilk-out was provoked by company agents.
Mr. Starxes. Will y(»u give the committee the names of any Nazi
agents connected ^\"ith the company?
Mr. La.^ih. Several of them are under indictment.
Mr. Starxes. Mr. Balint.
Mr. Balixt. I Avould say. sii-. tliat you can get all that information'
fi'om the
Mr. VooRiiis. Department of Justice?
Air. B.MJXT. That is right, in their suit against the company.
Mr. Starxes. Have you got any information that you can give
us with i-eferen(-e to the work of Nazi agents in the company?
.Mr. Balixt. 1 have no such information but I do have informa-
tion of sabotage ronnnitted in the |)]ants of the American Aluminum
Co. of Amei-ica. and we have witnesses who saw this sabotage. We
have called it to the attention of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
ainl thus far. as we know, no investigation has been made as to
tliis |»articular act of sabotage tliat took place.
Mr. Starxes. You mean to tell nie that the F. B. I. refused to
investigate a nuitter of sal)otage reported to them in a plant on
ilefense ordei-s^
Mr. Il\L!Nr. I said as far as our information is no action has yet
been taken.
Mr. St.xrxes. AVill vou furnish the secretarv of this committee
the names of those people?
3510 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Balint. I will furnish it here to you publicly, the exact act that
took place.
Mr. Starnes. I want to know the names of the people.
Mr. Balint. I will tell you the names here publicly.
Mr. Starnes. Please do that.
Mr. Lamb. Go ahead; tell it.
Mr. Starnes. We would like to have the names of those people who
are Nazi sympathizei's and who conmiitted acts of sabotage in the
plant; and another thing. Mi. Balint, if you know of any tie-up of
Communists on the one hand and the Nazis on the other to stop pro-
duction in the plant, we would like to know about that.
Mr, Balint. To proceed, then?
Mr. Starnes. Yes.
Mr. Balint. Approximately a month and a half or so ago, a work
stoppage took place in the American Magnesium Corporation, a plant
that is wholly owned now by the Aluminum Co. of America, in Cleve-
land, known as the X plant. This work stoppage took place on a Fri-
day and, of course, there was no work on Saturday and all the men
went home protesting against some actions thexe of the foremen on
wage rates and other bad working conditions. After that work stop-
page took place, we have witnesses who saw Haskell, the general man-
ager of that plant, come in on Saturday morning, and he proceeded to
M'reck and break molds that had already been made by these workers;
and he brought with him a photogi-apher and. after he had wrecked
these molds, he would take this photographer — this photographer
would take pictures of it.
Then they proceeded to go into the men's washroom and throw the
seats off of there, throw paper all around and take pictures of the mess
that they had created there. Further than that, they went and broke
windows in the plant and took pictures of that.
Now, there is something as to the purpose — there is a real act of
sabotage of breaking molds.
Mr. Starnes. And you charge that Mr. Haskell, the manager of the
plant, did that?
Mr. Balint. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. How do you spell that?
Mr. Balint. H-a-s-k-e-1-1.
Mr. Starnes. Did vou report that to the F. B. I.?
Mr. Balint. We reported that to the F. B. I.?
Mr. Starnes. Did you give the F. B. I. the names of the witnesses
who saw that?
Mr. Balint. I turned all the information over to our attorney for
disposition. We talked to the agents of the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation on that, and we asked the Federal Bureau of Investigation to
investigate as to how a company that was so swamped with vital work
for the Government, that one of its general managers can go inside of
a plant and proceed to wreck molds that are necessary for the produc-
tion of aircraft engines ; and, as far as we know, no investigation has
been made.
Mr. Starnes. Did you see that with your own eyes ?
Mr. Balint. We have talked to the witnesses who saw it with their
eyes.
Mr. Starnes. I know ; but did you not see it yourself?
U\-A.MEHICAN PROPAGAJ^DA ACTIVITIES ggH
Ml'. Balint. I ilid liot see it.
Mr. Staknp:s. So you are givinjv us what is hearsay testimony, but
you can gWe us the names of tlie witnesses who did see these acts?
Mr. Balint. Our legal department, sir, has all the information.
Mr. ^NIajtiiews. When did you come to Washington, Mr. Balint?
Mr. Balint. I came to Washington Thursday morning about 1
o'clock.
Mr. jNlAmiEWs. And this sabotage took place on Saturday after you
came to Wasliington?
Mr. Balint. Xo; this sabotage took place, as I said, approximately
a montli and a half ago.
Mr, VooRiiis. I would like to ask one question : Did I understand you
to say awhile ago that the walk-out that had taken place in Cleveland
was an unauthorized strike from the union standpoint?
Mr. Balint. No; I did not say that.
Mr. VooRHis. Well. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but
that is what I understood you to say.
Mr, Starnes. And so did I.
Mr. Balint. To make it clear, we came to Washington, D, C., after
■we had been informed by the Mediation Board to come here and medi-
ate the issues involved in our dispute. We had a strike set for last
Wednesday. W^e appeared before the policy committee of our organi-
zation and pleaded that there be no work stoppage pending mediation.
We had a veiy hard time. The men insisted on walking out, and we
asked them to remain at work until after we got to Washington, We
finally got them to agree not to stop work until we mediate, and we
went away ; and the men had the understanding that we would appeal
to the Mediation Board to put our hearing a few days ahead of sched-
ule, in view of the militant mood of the men, because here was a group
of six or seven thousand men wdio have been stepped on by this Nazi
corporation, for a j^eriod of 20 years, denied the right to organize;
fired when they tried to organize; and, for the first time, these workers
felt that they had a union and they wanted to protect every gain that
they liatl made, and they felt that the company was stalling.
They further felt that the Mediation Board was stalling, and when
we left we told them that we would attempt to convince the Mediation
Board to set our hearing date ahead in order that it be — all the dis-
putes or all tlie issues involved be eliminated in a hurry.
Well, when we came to Washington we were not succesful in get-
ting the Mediation Board to set up our hearing a few days and it
took place Mond.iy. We learned that the policy committee had au-
thorized the calling of the strike while we were in W^ashington, D, C,
and I believe from there on it is a matter of record.
Our national secretai-y, Mr. Cheyfitz, issued a statement that in
view of the fact that the walkout had taken place that he stood four-
square behind the men.
Mr. Starnes. All right. Now, who is the policy committee?
Mr. Balint. The policy connnittee consists of 300 conmiitteemen,
representatives from every single department in that plant. It is a
very democratic organization.
Mr, Starnes. Will you give us the names of some of them?
Mr. Balint. Just a moment.
(Conferring with Attorney Lamb.)
8612 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. The record will now show, of course, that ther3 is
some time elapsing.
Mr. Balint. Theie is approximately 300 committeemen there.
Mr. Starnes. Don't you know the name of a single one?
Mr. Balint. Well, I know them all by their first names — Tony,
Jack, or anything like that.
Mr. Starnes. Give us some of them and then you can furnish the
rest of them for the record.
Mr. Balint. Well, there is Al.
Mr. Starnes. Al who?
Mr. Balint. That is it ; I don't know their last names.
Mr. Starnes. What is Haskell's first name, whom you spoke about?
Mr. Balint. Well. I didn't speak of it. I said his name was
Haskell.
Mr. Starnes. The man Haskell that you spoke of, what is his first
name ?
Mr. Balint. He is the plant superintendent; I don't know his first
name — I don't know him, consequently I wouldn't know liis name.
Mr, Starnes. Do you know the last name, or the full name of a
single one of these 300 committee members of yours that belong to this
great democratic organization ?
Mr, Balint. Yes; I guess I can think of some if you will just gi\'e
me a minute.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Balint. There is John — there is Jolm Bozich.
Mr, Starnes, All right, that is one.
Mr, Balint. (No response,)
Mr. Starnes. Very well, if you don't remember any of the i-est of
them I will not ask you further.
Do you have something else. Dr. Matthews ?
Mr, Matthews. Yes; I would like to ask the witness if he owns
an automobile. Do you own an automobile?
Mr. Balint. Yes.
Mr, Matthews. What is the license number ?
Mr. Lamb. Just a second. May I inquire — I have already advised
the. committee that a representative of the committee has rifled all
the personal effects of the negotiating conmiittee here before the Na-
tional Defense Board, and it is the purpose of
Mr. Starnes. Wait a minute. I want to put you under oath.
Will you hold up your hand and be sworn ?
TESTIMONY OF EDWARD LAMB, GENEEAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION OF DIE CASTING WOEKERS
Mr. Starnes. D^o you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall
give before this committee will be the truth, the wliole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr, Lamb. I certainly do; yes, sir; indeed.
Mr, Starnes. You are making a statement here that some com-
mittee investigator rifled the personal effects of Mr. Balint. Wlio
was the investigator?
Mr. La 1MB. I will tell the committee more fully what I attempted to
say before when I was interrupted.
rX-AMKKK AN I'lK )1'A( JAXDA ACTIVmES 8613
Mr. Starnes. I want to know the name of the invest i£:ator. You
are ^joing to answer my question or you are going to sit down.
Mr. Lamp.. Which do you want^
Mr. Starxes. And if you don't want to do that we have means of
enforcmg the rules of this committee.
Mr. Lamb. Wliich do you want ^
Ml-. 8tai;nes. 1 jusL want you to answer this question — you are an
intelligent man
Mr. Lamu. 1 think so; I have been intelligent enough to appear
before several of these committee hearings.
Mr. Starnks. Then just tell me, give this committee the name of
the investigator tliat you know rifled the personal effects, as you
expressed it.
Mr. Lamb. As we left
Mr. Starnes. 1 want to know his name and then you can make your
statement.
Mr. Lamb. I woidd like to know it myself.
]Mr. Starnes. Were you present when he rifled those personal
effects ?
Mr. Lamb. I was before the Mediation Board when your repre-
sentative came over.
Mr. Starnes. Have you — have a seat; you don't know anything
about it.
Mr. Lamb. AVe would be glad to have you reveal this information
to us.
Mr. Staknes. AYe would like to have it from you if you had any,
but we are not going to let you pull a demonstration here.
Mr. YooRHis. Do you mean to say under oath that a committee
investigator rifled tlie effects of these men that came here to the
^Mediation Board?
Mr. Lamb. ]\Ir. Yoorhis, I didn't ask an awful lot as attorney for
the witness, but as a witness for myself I do appreciate the courtesy
of at least being afforded tlie chance to finish my answer.
Mr. Starnes. Xow, j\[r. Lamb, let us be fair. You are an at-
torney
Mr. Lamb. That is what I want to be.
Mr. Starnes. And you are accustomed to representing a number
of people before different committees in different places.
Mr. Lamb. That is I'ight.
Mr, Starnes. And you are a very intelligent man.
Mr. Lamb. Thank you.
Mr. Starnes. You are xevy clevei- and adept, and you also know
how to weave in a story very adeptly into the record.
Mr. L\MB. I have never been complimented so much in my life
but I appreciate it.
Mr. Starnes. We understand that. We ask you the direct ques-
tion and instead of making a direct answer jou make some sort of
broad accusation. If you have some evidence against a committee
investigator the committee wants to know about it ; if you want to
make a speech and recite general statements you can make that kind
of statement on the outside. We don't want the record cluttered
up with generalities.
3614 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
If you know the names of any investigators who did such a thing,
I would like to know those names. I am like Mr. Voorhis; if you
know it was a committee investigator we want to know about it.
We don't want a general speech or indictment. We understand each
other all right.
Mr. Lamb. I wonder if Mr. Voorhis feels with you that I should
not be afforded an opportunity to answer the question completely?
Mr. Voorhis. I think you should answer it.
Mr. Starnes. I think you should be specific and not attempt to
make a beautiful speech or stage a demonstration before this com-
mittee.
Mr. Lamb. Would an answer of three sentences not be too cumber-
some for the record?
Mr, Starnes. Not at all ; 300 if they are pertinent.
Mr. Lamb. Thank you. As we left the National Defense Media-
tion Board hearing today we were advised
Mr. Starnes. All right, you are going to hearsay now.
Mr. Lamb. But I haven't finished even one sentence, have I?
Mr. Starnes. All right, go along.
Mr. Lamb. That as the committee representatives came to the place
where our union negotiating committee is residing in Washington,
that an investigator of the Dies committee appeared there and stated
that he was looking for certain records — he was looking for certain
persons, and thereujjon he went into the house and examined the per-
sonal effects of the men who are on our negotiating committee while
they were before the National Defense Mediation Board.
Now, I am giving you the information that was given to our com-
mittee as we left that National Defense Mediation Board to come
here. I have given you the information I have frankly and in fact
I think I did it in one sentence.
Mr. Starnes. All right, you will be seated. Everything you have,
said is hearsay. You made a nice little speech for the record in which
you attempted to cast aspersions on an investigator of this committee.
It is all hearsay. You say you have been advised that that was done,
but you have no direct information or no testimony that you can swear
to yourself?
Mr. Lamb. That is right. We came directly over here.
Mr. Starnes. You may go ahead, Dr. Matthews.
TESTIMONY OF ALEX BALINT— Resumed
Mr. Matthews. I asked the witness for the number of liis automobile
license.
Mr. Lamb, May I ask the committee members, the Chairman,
whether that is the policy, knowing what has ha]i]3ened to the com-
mittee members, whether the license number of the car of this witness
should be given to the committee ?
Mr. Starnes. Testimony of this type, Mr. Lamb, has been given to
us by scores of witnesses, gladly and willingly, who appeared before
us in New Jersey and New York and other places.
Mr, Lamb. If you order the witness to answer the question I will
advise him to answer it, with the reservation that anything that hap-
pens to his car you are the gentleman who started at least the course
of conduct that we hope will not take place.
rX-AMF.HK AN I'KOPAGrVNDA ACTIVITIES 8615
IVfr. Staknes. All rioht, ^'ive him the number of the car; I will give
you mine.
Mr. Hamnt. XB-377, Ohio license.
Mr. Matthews. Mv. Bulint, diil you ever speak for the American
Leaaue for Peace and Dcniocracy?
\[i'. Bam NT. I do not recall that 1 have ever spoken for any orj^an-
ization of that kind.
^fr. Maithews. Would you testify that you did not speak for the
Anierican Leacue for Peace and Democracy?
Mr. Bali NT. Yes, sir; I would testify that I did not.
Mr. Matthews. Do you believe that it is appropriate at this time
of national emer^rency. for labor loaders, occupying positions as impor-
tant as yours, to denounce communism?
Mr. Balint. I believe that all labor leaders at this time should
especially urge the preservation of democracy heren( in defense of civil
liberties, in maintenance of the right to strike, in maintenance of all
the civil liberties that we have.
Mr. Matthews. The answer is not responsive to the question.
Mr. Starnes. Do you have any questions that are pertinent? I
don't want any more si^eeches.
Mr. Matthews. I want to know how the witness stands with ref-
erence to the policies of the C. I. O.
Mr. Starnes. He is not going to give you a direct answer on it
and I think, Dr. Matthews, any further questions along this line is
a waste of the committee's time.
Mr. Balint. Let me say — you asked me a question relative to the
C. I. O. I stand foursquare behind the program and policies of the
C. I. O. as was adopted at the last convention.
Mr. Matthews. Then why hesitate to say that it is appropriate
for labor leaders to denounce communism?
Mr. Balint. I am. I stand on that program anytime and any
place. It is a program that millions of American workers are proud
of.
Mr. Matthew^s. Well, you are aw^are of the fact that the Atlantic
City convention of the C.' I. (). last year, adopted a resolution unani-
mously denouncing communism, aren't you?
Mr. Balint. I am.
Mr. INIatthews. And yet you would decline to say that you agree
with that?
Mr. Balint. I will say that I will follow out that policy all the
way.
Mr. ^Iatphews. You will denounce communism?
Mr. Balint. I will say that I will follow out the decisions of that
convention.
Mr. Matthews. Will you denounce communism along with the
C. I. o.?
Mr. Baijnt. The convention's decisions.
Mr. Matt'hews. Mr. Chairman, that is sufficient.
Mr. Starnes. You may be excused. Do j^ou have any further
need for this man ?
Mr. Maithews. No.
Mr. Starnes. You are excused from any of our processes.
Mr. Matthews. Vera Apergis.
8616 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
TESTIMONY OF MES. VERA APEKGIS
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand;
Do vou solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before the committee, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God'^
Mrs. Apergis. I do. /
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give your full name ?
Mrs. Apergis. Vera Apergis.
Mr. Matthews. A-p-e-r-g-i-s?
Mrs. Apekgis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born?
Mrs. x^pergis. Buffalo, N. Y.
Mr. Matthews. What is your present occupation?
Mrs. Apergis. Senior clerk on W. P. A.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Alex Balint in connection with your
work on the W. P. A. at one time?
Mrs. Apergis. He was a director.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know Alex Balint?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What was your position at the time you knew
Alex Balint?
Mrs. Apergis. I was president of the W. P. A. industrial organization
of the C. I. O.
Mr. Matthews. And what was his position?
Mrs. Apergis. He w^as appointed as a director over me from the
C. I. O., over the W. P. A. — over the men's division and the women's
division.
Mr. Matthews. What year was that?
Mrs. Apergis. 1939.
Mr. Matthews. About what month?
Mrs. Apergis. Well, I believe he was oppointed sometime in Febru-
ary, by Mr. Stevenson.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have frequent discussions with Alex Balint ?
Mrs. Apergis. Almost every day.
Mr. Matthews. Did Alex Balint ever show you his Communist
Party membership book?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes; one Saturday afternoon.
Mr. Matthews. Did he ever discuss communism with you ?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Did he tell you that he was a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir ; since he was 14 years old.
Mr. Matthews. He told you that he joined the Communist Party
when he was 14?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mat'ihews. Did he tell you more than once that he was a member
of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Apergis. Quite a few times.
Mr. Matthews. Did he urge you to join the Communist Party?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir ; he said if I wanted to be a good organizer
and belong to a labor party I will never know what an organizer means
until I belong to the Communist Partj^
UN-AJ\IEiaCAN PROPAGA.XDA ACTIVITIES 8617
Mr. Matthews. Did ho toll you you wouldn't get anywhere unless
you joined the Conmiunist Party ?
Mrs. ArERGis. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, do you Avant to ask the witness some
questions?
Mr. Starnes. I have no questions.
Mr. Matthews. When you worked with Mr. Balint, did you occujjy
the same office?
Mrs. ArEiiGis. Yes. sir.
Mr. Ma'ithi.ws. AVhen he came into that office was there an Ameri-
can flag on his side of the room ?
Mrs. Ai'EKGis. Yes, sir; directly in front of us. both of us.
Mr. Matthews. What did he do with the American flag ?
Mrs. ApEKGis. The American flag was removed to the w^omen's side
and his side was for Communist literature for every Communist that
run on the ticket and Yetta Lamb.
^fr. Starnes. Lamb — L-a-m-b?
Mrs. Apergis. She run for Mayoi- — Lang, I think it is — L-a-n-g, if
I am not mistaken.
Mr. ]Matthews. And did you yourself see the Communist litera-
ture which Alex Balint ke})t in your office ?
Mrs. Apergis. Oh, yes; because the office wasn't divided; we had
the office combined. He had a desk on one side and I had a desk
on the other side.
Mr. VoGRHis. What was this an office of?
Mr. Matthews. C. I. O. union for workers on the sewing project,
on W. P. A. Mr. Balint testified what the union was.
Xow. Mrs. Apergis. are you absolutely positive that what Mr.
Balint showed you was his Communist Party membership book?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matthews. You have no doubt about that?
Mrs. Apergis. Oh, no; because he wanted to show mo what good
standing he was in. We had a party on Thursday night and we had
a bottle of whisky left over and after the tailors* meeting, which I
held every Saturday afternoon, the tailors, after the meeting, dis-
banded and Mr. Balint and one of these young men stayed and they
had this bottle of whisky staudhig on the desk and they were dis-
cussing the Communists. The man was very much against them and
Mr. Balint tried to explain to him and to me what a real Com-
munist meant.
Mr. Matthews. Did Alex Balint call you by telephone one night
and urge you to bring the members of your organization to a mass
meeting which was to be addressed by Earl Browder?
Mrs. Apergis. We had a meeting on Tuesday night and there was a
meeting at the auditorium and I was directed to bring all the mem-
bers down to the auditorium.
Mr. Matthews. "\'\1io was speaking at the auditorium that night?
Mrs. Apergis. Well, Earl Browder was.
Mr. Matthew^s. AMio directed you to bring the members of your
organization there?
Mrs. Apergis. Mr. Balint.
Mr. Matthews. Did he call you bv telephone or tell you person-
ally?
8618 UX-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mrs, Apergis. Telephone.
Mr. Matthews. He called you by telephone?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And instructed you to bring the women from your
meeting to the auditorium where Browder was speaking?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you go ?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes; we did. When we seen what was going on we
left and, besides that, we didn't have 25 cents to pay. Some went
in to see what was going on, but we left.
Mr. Matthews. There was a 25-cent admission charge which kept
some from going in; is that right?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That is all.
Mr. VooRHis. Are you still president of this w^omen's organiza-
tion?
Mrs. Apergis. No, sir. Mr. Balint and his Communist organiza-
tion, some of the Communist leaders got the best of me and I had
to resign.
Mr. Matthews. Were you trying to destroy the union of which
you were president?
Mrs. Apergis. I did destroy it. I instructed everyone not to pay
a cent of dues. I turned the minutes and all the records over to the
W. P. A. investigation.
Mr. Matthews. Why did you do that?
Mrs. Apergis. Because I wanted to see that the W. P. A. was
cleared of all the Communists.
Mr. Matthews. Were you convinced that this union, after Balint
came in, had come completely under the control of the Communists?
Mrs. Apekgis. Well, I would say 30 percent of it.
Mr. Matthews. You mean 30 percent of the membership was
Communist ?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What about the control at the top ?
Mrs. Apergis. It was controlled by me and my people but then
they just couldn't stand it, to think that our regional director was
a Communist and little by little they wouldn't pay dues.
Mr. Matthews. Whom do you refer to when you say "regional
director" ?
Mrs. Apergis. Well, I meant Mr. Balint.
Mr. Starnes. Did you organize this union?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir; I did, with 14 members.
Mr. Starnes. What was the strength of it when Mr. Balint came
into the organization?
Mrs. Apergis. We nmst have had around eight or nine hundred
members.
Mr. Starnes. At that time?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What was your answer?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. That is, you built it from 14 to eight or nine
hundred ?
Mrs. Apergis. Yes, sir.
rX-AMKUICAN I'ROPAGA^'DA ACTIVITIES 8619
Mr. Matthews. Then Mr. Balint came in and took charge?
Mrs. Apekgis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was he appointed by Mr. Stevenson?
Mrs. Apergis. He was ap])oinled by Mr. Stevenson.
Mr. ISIatthews. Who is Mr. Stevenson?
Mrs. ApmiGis. He is secrotaiy of the CleveUnid Industrial Council.
Mr. Matthews. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Staknes. All ri<iht, the next witness.
Mr. Matthews. The next witness is Mr. Balunek.
TESTIMONY OF ANDREW BALUNEK
Mr. 8TAKNES. Will 3'ou please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solenmly swear that the testimony you shall give before the
conmiittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. JNIatthews. What is your name?
Mr. Balunek. Andrew Balunek.
Mr. Matthews. B-a-1-u-n-e-k?
Mr. Balunek. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born, Mr. Balunek ?
Mr. Baluxek. Born in Pennsylvania.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. Balunek. August 8, 1902.
Mr. Matthews. After your birth did you spend most of your youth
in Europe (
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You were born in this country and spent your
youth in Europe?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. When did you come back to the United States?
Mr. Balunek. I came back February 18, 1923.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Alex Balint?
Mr. Balunek. I know him since 1931.
Mr. Matthews. Where did you meet him?
Mr. Balunek. I met him down at Seventy-ninth Street in the
Communist hall and I see him often when he organize the people
at the corner at Seventy-ninth and the hall.
Mr. Matthews. That is the Hungarian district of Cleveland?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthetws. And vou have seen him there in the Communist
hall ?
Mr. Balunek. Hundreds of times, and we go together downtown
many times.
Mr. Matthews. Is it at Seventy-ninth and Buckeye Road?
Mr. Balunek. Seventy-ninth Sti'eet and Buckeye Road are differ-
ent. They cross. It is Seventy-ninth and Bucke3^e Road. It is cross-
town. It is cross-town in the city of Cleveland.
Mr. Mattheavs. You have seen him there?
Mr. Balunek. Many times.
Mr. Matthews. At Connnunist meetings?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
8620 UN-x\MEHICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. And you know him personally?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you work with him at Republic Steel?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What year was that?
Mr. Balunek. 1934, '35, and '36.
Mr. Matthews. Have you ever talked with Balint about com-
munism ?
Mr. Balunek. Every day, because I ride with him down to the
mill every day. He takes us down to work and home.
Mr. Matthews. You rode to and from work at Republic Steel
with Balint?
Mr. Balunek. With Balint; yes.
Mr. Matthews. For a period of months?
Mr. Balvnek. Oh, maybe 1 year.
Mr. Matthews. For a j^ear ?
Mr. Balunek. Maybe more.
Mr. Matthews. And did he discuss communism with you?
Mr. Balunek. Oh, yes; communism and ClOism. First, com-
munism. He says he is a member of the Communist Party and many
times he asked me, he says: "Wliy don't you join? If you do you
are ^oinc: to get a job like I do. and if you work at Republic Steel
and you are a Communist, don't worry al^out it, you are going to get
the position."
Mr. Matthews. Did he tell you that he was a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir ; he told me that many times.
Mr. Matthews. Did he urge you to join the Communist Party?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did he tell you you would get a good job if you
joined the Communist Party?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did he tell you that more than once?
Mr. Balunek. Oh, a dozen times.
Mr. Matthews. Are you a member of the union at the present
time ?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. A^Hiat imion?
Mr. Balunek. C. I. O.
Mr. Matthews. What is the name of the union ?
Mr. Balunek. C. I. O. organization — steel workers organization.
Mr. Matthews. Steel Workers Organizing Committee?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mati'hews. Do you work in the aluminum plant which is now
on strike in Cleveland?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir; I went to work and 2 o'clock the strike
started and I. went home.
Mr. Matthews. You do work at the plant which is now struck?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir; that is why I am not working now.
Mr. Matthews. You are emj)loycd there?
Mr. Balunek. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. And are you a member of the union?
UX-AMEKICAN TKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8621
Mr. Balunek. I joined the union 1 month ago because I am
scared from the Comnumist racketeers, because I lost my job down
in the Republic Steel — that is the wny I lost my job.
Mr. MA'rrHEws. You mean tlie C'onununists maneuvered to get you
fired?
Mr. Baluxek. Fired out for poor work. They put that dirty
spot on me '"poor chi[)per" and I had 5 or 6 years" experience in
chi}){)er work. Alex Balint do the job the same thing with me.
Mr. VooRHis. Could 1 ask a couple of questions: Do you believe
that the workers in those plants need a union to protect them?
Mr. Balt'Xek. Yes. sir: I believe that a good union is good any
time. I believe the union but not the communism and they force
the men to join the union. That is against the law like they use
it down in the United States Aluminum. They talk to the men:
"You guys join tlie union, if not you are going to pay $25 or $50
admission.""
Mr. Mai^hews. You mean they threatened the men with fines
after the strike was won?
Mr. Balunek. Yes. sir.
Mr. Matthews. If they didn't join the union they would be fined
after the strike was won? That is what you mean to say?
Mr. Balunek. Yes; have to pay $25 or $50 admission. That is
wh}- a lot of the people are scared and they signed the union just
the same as I did.
Mr. Matthews. That is the reason you joined the union?
Mr. Balunek. Certainly.
Mr. VooRHis. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. Anything further, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. That is all.
Mr. Starnes. The Chair wishes to announce that additional testi-
mony will be taken on this phase of the investigation on Thursday
morning.
The committee will stand adjourned until that time.
(Whereupon, at 4: 10 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m.,
Thursday, June 12, 1941.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, JUNE 13, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subco:mmittee of the Special. Committee
To Investigate Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. C.
The subcommittee met at 4 : 30 p. m., in the Banking and Currency
Committee room, Hon. Joe Stariies (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (chairman of the subcommittee), and
Voorhis.
Mr. Starnes. The subcommittee will resume its hearings. This
is a resumption of the hearings which were conducted on Tuesday
afternoon, June 10, at which JNIr. Vo<,)rhis and the chairman were
present. Today the cliairman is sitting as a subcommittee of the
subcommittee, with the consent of the subcommittee, to hear this
testimony.
Dr. Matthews, whom will j^ou have?
Mr. Matthews. Mr. C. B. Cowan.
TESTIMONY OF C. B. COWAN, FOEMER MEMBEE, COMMUNIST
PAETY
Mr. Starnes. Come around, Mr. Cowan. Will you please raise
your right hand and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the
testimony you shall give before this committee will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Cowan. I do.
Mr. Starnes. All right, Dr. Matthews.
IMr. Matthews. Will you please give j^our full name for the
record ?
Mr. Cowan. Claire Biglow Cowan.
Mr. Matthews. Where were you born?
Mr. Cowan. Williams, Oreg.
Mr. Matthews. When?
Mr. Cowan. In February 1902.
Mr. Matthews. ^Vliere do you reside at the present time?
Mr. Cowan. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Matthews. Were you ever a member of the Connnunist Party'?
Mr. Cowan. I was.
Mr. ^NFatthews. When did vou join the Communist Party?
Mr. Cowan. 1929.
t5262«— 41— vol. 1-1 30 8623
8624 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA AOTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Where?
Mr, Cowan. At Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Mati^hews. At the time you joined the Conmninist Party,
what was your occupation?
Mr. CowAN. Punch press operator in the Fisher Body plant.
Mr. Matthews. How long were you a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Cowan. Seven years; a])pi-oximately 7 years.
Mr. Matthews. When did you quit the Connnunist Party?
Mr. Cowan. I didn't quit the Comnnmist Party.
Mr. Matthews. How did you terminate your relationship witli
the Communist Party?
Mr. Cowan. I was expelled from the party in March of 1936 by
action of the control commission — national control commission of
the party.
Mr, Mattfiews. Did you at the time of your expulsion from ihe
Communist Party make any public statements with reference to your
reasons for tlie conflict between yourself and the party?
Mr, Cowan, I did.
Mr, Matthews, Can you state briefly, if you wish to, for the benefit
of the committee, what that public statement consisted of?
Mr. Cowan. I issued a public statement immediately upon the
publication in March of 1936 by the Daily Worker as to my expulsion
and those statements or excerpts therefrom were published in the
three Cleveland dailies to tlie effect that I had been consistently op-
posing inside of the Connnunist Party the growth of a foreign bu-
reaucracy that was takiiiir control of the Amei'ican Connnunist Party
in tlie interests of a government — a foreign government — and that I
could have no part of any such organization or group that was Avork-
ing against the interest of the American working class.
Mr. Matthews. When you were tried by the central control com-
mission of tlie Connnunist Party of the United States, who was in
charge of the centi'al conti'ol commission at that time?
Mr. Cowan. Mr. Dirba, of the central control comnnssion, was the
chairman of that committee.
Mr, Matthews. Is that Charles Dirba ?
Mr, Cowan, That is correct,
Mr, Matthews. Do you happen to know whether or not Mi', Dirba
has ever used the alias of Lapin?
Mr, Cowan, On that I am not informed,
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about Mr. Dirba's back-
ground ?
Mr. Cowan. Nothing {positive. It was ^aid among the inner circles
of the Connnunist Party to me ])ersonally that Sir. Dirba was a
representative here in the United States, in the American Party--of
the American Commission of Connnimist International — this is
merely statements made by other members of the Comnnaiist Party
Central Connnittee.
Mr. Matthews. Rut you do know })ersonally that he had charge of
Ihe procedings which resulted in your expulsion from the party?
Mr. Cowan. Correct.
Ml'. Matthews. And your expulsion was not a local mailer but
a niatlcr of the national control commission; is that correct;
r.X-AMKUK'AN I'UOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8625
Mr. Cowan. That is correct.
Mr. MA-rriiEWs. Can you uivc u biief <lescriptit)U of Charles Dirba?
Mr. Cowan. Charles' Dirba is a man who at first <«lance ^ives the
impression of beinf; very tall — approximately 6 foot 1, or 6 foot 2.
In reality he is shorter because he is very lean, emaciated, slightly
stooped; hollow chieked and is about, I would say, TO or rJ years
of age.
Mr. Matiheavs. At the present time?
Mr. Cowan. Yes: at the i)resent time.
Mr. Matthews. Whal organizations affiliated with or undc;- tiie
control of the Communist Party were you assigned to work in dniing
your membership in the Communist Party?
Mr. Cowan. Various organizations, principally among which were
the unemployed organizations in district 6. That is Ohio, east Indi-
ana. Kentucky, and southwestern Pennsylvania; and hiter in the
national fraction of the Unem])loyed Council of the I^. vS. A.
Mr. Matthews. Before you leave tlie National Unemi)loyment
Council, U. S. A.. I show you a photostatic co])y of a letter on the
letterhead of the National Unemployment Council, U. S. A. Have you
ever seen that letterhead <^)r a similar letterhead ?
(Handing j^hotostat to the witness.)
Air. Cowan. I have.
Mr. Matthews. You can identify that as the letterhead of the
organization as you knew it?
Air. Cowan. Not as I knew it. This letterhead was printed at the
lime I liad been transferred from the uneni)jloyed organization, in an
active capacity, to the Workers Ex-Service Men's League.
My position in the organization had been taken by Andrew Onchi.
whose name is on this letterhead.
Mr. Matthews. On this letterhead is the name of "Andrew Onda.''
national chairman. Are you acquainted with Andrew Onda?
Mr. Cowan. I am.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know where he is located at the present
lime?
Mr. Cowan. He recently was transferred from Cleveland, a matter
of some 90 days or 4 months ago, as I understand it, to New York City.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know him as a member of the Communist
}\arty?
Mr. Cowan. I recruited him into the Communist Party and trained
him in the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. About what vear was that?
Mr. Cowan. In 1932.
Mr. Matthews. Are you acquainted with Israel Amter?
Mr. Cowan. Israel Amter I know personally and I have known
him for many years.
Mr. Matthews. On this letterhead Israel Amter signs the lettei' as.
''National Secretary of the Nati(^nal Unemployment Coinicil. U. S. A."'
Can y(ju say whether or not Israel Amter is one of the to]) function-
aries of the Connnunist Party of the United States?
Mr. Cowan. Israel Amter is a member of the central control com-
mittee of the Connnimist Party of the United States of America, and
also a member of its [)olitical bureau.
8626 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVrTIES
Mr. Matthews. This letter is addressed to Harold Hickerson, under
date of June 1924, and reads as follows :
Harold Hickerson,
Washington, D. O.
Dear Comrade: I met Comrade Cowan in Cleveland and gave liim the address.
It might be well if you got in touch with him directly. From what I gathered,
this organization is made up greatly of veterans who used to he in the hospital in
Dayton.
Would you say that reference is to yourself?
Mr. Cowan. It is.
Mr. JMatthews. In what connection are you referred to in this letter
from Amter to Hickerson ?
Mr. Cowan. I was at that time the national fraction secretary of the
Workers Ex- Service Men's League, an organization set up by the
Connnunist Party for the purpose of mobilizing and conducting the
bonus march and later the rank-and-file veterans' encampment at Fort
Hunt, Va., in 1932, 1933, and 1934.
Mr. Matthews. I should have asked you at the outset, Mr. Cowan,
but I ask you now, if you have ever served in tlie armed forces of the
United States?
Mr. Cowan. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state what your service record is,
Mr. Cowan?
Mr. Cowan. I joined the United States Marines in Cleveland, Ohio,
and was sent from there to Parris Island, where I took my final oath in
the United States Marines on July 25, 1918. I served until the 6th of
September 1919 at the Navy Yard in Philadelphia.
Mr. Matthews. Was it because you had served in the Marines that
you became one of the national leaders of the Workers Ex-Service
Men's League?
Mr. Cowan. We, in the party, considered it good policy to put in the
leadership of such an organization one who had had a service record ;
yes.
Mr. Matthews. Who were some of the other national leaders of the
Workers Ex-Service Men's League?
Mr. Cowan. Harold Hickerson, Walter Trumball, Emanuel Levine,
Peter Cacchione.
Mr. Matthews. That is C-a-c-c-h-i-o-n-e, is it not?
Mr. Cowan. Yes. These made up mainly the national leadership
insofar as the party forces in that organization were concerned.
Mr. Matthews. Now, in March of 1934, a call was sent out to all
posts of the Workers Ex-Service Men's League for a bonus conven-
tion to be held in Washington on May 10 of that year. Do you
recall whether or not you. Emanuel Levine and Harold Hickerson,
were the signers of that call ?
Mr. Cowan. We were. We were the national leadership of the
combined veterans' organizations then assisting in the fight for tlie
bonus, known as the National Veterans Rank and File, and it was
after a meeting of the party faction assigned to veteran's works that
this letter was sent out and went to all posts of the organization in
the United States.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you have mentioned two organizations with
which you were identified during your membership in the Communist
Party — the Workers Ex-Service Men's League and the U)iemploy-
IN-AMKltlCAN runr.MiANDA ACTIVITIES 8627
ment Councils. Were there any others of particular importance,
so far as your activities were concerned?
IVIr. Cowan. I was also insofar as district activities were concerned,
assigned to district agitation and propaganda as director and also
during the absence of a responsible central connnittee representative,
to the trade-union fraction of the district of Ohio, district 6.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever work in the Trade Union Unity
League?
Mr. (\nvAN. I did. At one time T was the district 6 secretary for
a short period and for a considerable time a member of the district
fraction.
Mr. Matthews. Can you state whether or not, in your own per-
sonal knowdedge, the Unemployment Councils were set up by, con-
trolled by, and eventually liquidated by the Communist Party of
the United States?
Mr. CowAx. I can definitely state to my own personal knowledge,
having taken a part in the decisions prior to March 6, 1930, and
working through them until — through and in them until they were
liquidated into the Workers Alliance at Washington — at a confer-
ence at Washington, that this organization definitely was conceived
in the minds of the party leadership here and internationally.
Mr. Matthews. When you s|)eak of March 6, 1930, I presume
you refer to the very large-scale demonstrations which resulted in
rioting all over the United States?
Mr. Cowman. I would hardly say that the calling of those demon-
strations resulted in rioting. I refer to them as the demonstrations
of the unemployed and hungry people of that period wdio responded
in answer to the call sent out in the form of leaflets by the party
activities at that time.
Mr. Matthews. On that date there were large-scale demonstrations
througliout the United States?
Mr. CowAx. On that date there were large-scale demonstrations
throughout the United States, definitely.
Mr. Matthew's. And attendant on those demonstrations there was
a good deal of rioting in some cities, was there not?
Mr. CowAx. Some people may call it rioting. I think it was
the protection of these people from unprovoked assaults by police
in various parts of the country to disburse the gatherings.
Mr. Mattiie^vs. Do j'ou happen to know whether William Z.
Foster, and other top party leaders in New York, were arrested and
coiwicted and served terms as a result of what, for convenience, I
will call rioting in New York on March 6, 1930?
Mr. Cowan. I do know that these men that you mentioned were
ai-rested, so tried and convicted.
Mr. Matthew^s. Now, do you know a paper called the Hunger
Fighter, which was published by the Unemployment Councils? Did
you ever see copies of that publication?
Mr. CoWAX. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever A\rite for that publication?
Mr. Cowan. Occasionally.
Mr. Matthews. If it will refresh your recollection, Mr. Cowan,
I think- von wrote an article for the Hunger Fighter in February
of 1933?"
8628 UN-ASfERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Cowan. Yes.
^Ir. Matthews. The February issue of 1933?
Mr. CoAVAN. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And the editor of tlie Hung'er Fighter carried on
the masthead of the organization, was Franivlin Folsom. Did you
happen to know Franklin Folsom?
Mr. Cowan. I never met Franklin Folsom. The Hunger Fighter
was managed as a sort of independent printing establishment, sep-
arate and apart from the actual organizational stiiicture of the
Unemployment Councils, and certain individuals were put in charge
there who were more or less interested in the financial aspects of
the paper than they were in the campaigns that it ostensibly was
created to chronicle.
Mr. Matthews. The masthead, howt^ver, carries the statement that
it is published fortnightly by the Unemployment Councils. In some
respects it was the official publication of the organization, was it not?
Mr. Cowan. The Unemployment Councils had no publishing organ-
ization. This stuff was done outside for us. The entire content of
the paper, however, was under the control of our national fraction
and nothing appeared therein that was not first approved by us.
Mr. Maithews. Have you ever heard of Michael Davidow?
Mr. Cowan. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\Iatthews. You know that he is a Communist Party member?
Mr. Cowan. I do.
Mr. Matthews. And you see that he is one of the contributors
to this paper?
Mr. Cowan. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Richard Sullivan, another contribu-
tor?
Mr. Cowan. I don't know Sullivan.
Mr. Matthews. You knew of him?
Mr. Cowan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. You knew him as a party member in New York?
Mr. Cowan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Did you knoAv Ann Livingston, who was a col-
umnist for the Daily Worker?
Mr. Cowan. I know the name.
Mr. Matthews. You know her name?
Mr. Cowan. Yes ; I know her name.
Mr. Matthews. You knew her as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Cowan. Yes: I knew her as a member of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Matthews. Apart from whatever technical relationship there
was between this publication and the Unemj^hwment Councils, would
_you say that the Hunger Fighter was definitefy a Communist publi-
cation ?
Mr. Cowan. No: I couldn't say that the Hunger Fighter definitely
was a Communist publication, because there was permitted in the
Hunger Fighter, through our national committee, material that defi-
nitely did not follow the party line, as a concession to those forces
that were following what we considered a progressive line in the
unemployed field.
UN-AMEUK AN l'K()rA<;A.\i )A ACTIVITIES 8629
Mr. Matthews. But aren't concessions sometimes a ]y<\v\ of I lie
party line ?
Mr. Cowan. In this instance we had no choice.
Mr. Matthews. The party line made the concessions, is that cor-
rect ?
Mr. CowAX. The concessions that are found in this publication
were dictated by the growin<y majority of those who were not mem-
bers of the partj^ in the various districts throughout the country, and
the excessive amount of contriV)uted material that came in. and the
protest from nonparty forces wlio contributed but their maleiial
was not iniblished.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know of Franklin Folsom being a member
of the Comnuuiist Party '^
Mr. Cowan. Xo.
Mr. Mattheavs. You do not know that ?
Mr. Cowan. No.
Mr. Ma'ithews. During your membership in the Conununist Pai-ty
did you know a man by the name of Alex Balint?
Ml'. Cowan. During my membership in the Communist Party I
know no such man.
Mr. Matthews. You never knew of a party member whose name
was Alex Balint or Al Balint?
Mr. Cowan. During my time in the Connnunist Party I never
knew anyone who had the name Alex Balint, who was a party mem-
ber, nor the name Alex Balint appearing on the party records
to which I had access at the time.
Mr. Matthews. Did you have access to party records ?
Mr. Cowan. A< a member of the district bureau I had constant
access to the district's membership — just the district's membership
records.
Mr. Mati'hews- Now, I show you a photograph which appeared
in the AVashii^igton Post and ask you if you know the man whose
picture appears on the right. Do you know that man by any name?
Mr. Cowan. Yes; I know that man.
Mr. Matthi':ws. Are you positive that you know the man?
Mr. Cowan. Very positive.
Mr. Matthew^s. Under what name did you know him?
Mr. Cowan. I knew him under the name of Al Barry.
Mr. Mai THEWS. Would you please spell the name?
Mr. Cowan. Barry — B-a-r-r-j'^, Al Barry.
Mr. Matthews. Al Barry ^
Mr. Cowan. Yes.
Mr. M.vrTHEWs. Mr. Chairman, tlie witness lias identified a photo-
graph of Alex Balint, wliose pliotogra})h a})pears with Andrew
Balunek on the first page of the Washington Post for June 11, 1941.
Did you know Al Barry as a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Cowan. I did.
Mr. MArniEws. Are you positive of that?
Mr, OowAN, Very positive.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever have personal association with Al
Barry as a member of the Connnunist Party ^
Mr. Cowan. I called him to Dartv meetings as a member of the
party to discuss with him and outline to him various of the party
campai<rns in that period.
gg30 UN-AMERICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Can you state approximately what year it was
that you first knew Al Barry as a member of the Communist Party 'i
Mr. Cowan. The latter part — not as a member of the Communist
Party in the beginning. The man I knew as Al Barry was a mem-
ber of the Young Communist League. That was in the hitter part
of 1930, and that status of Al Barry continued until approximately
1933, in the spring, when the party in the district — we decided to
transfer him to tlie party but to send him back to do industrial trade
union work in the Young Connnunist League as his party assignment.
Mr. Matthews. I show you an issue of the Y. C. L. Builder —
the Young Communist League Builder for September 1933. In your
experience in the Communist Party did you ever see this ])u])lication^
Mr. Cowan. I have. I have often read this and seen it sold as
a booklet of the Communist Party.
Mr. Mattheavs. On page 10 of this issue there appears an article
entitled "Winning the Youth for the Y. C. L. Through Struggle."
The article is signed by Al Barry, Cleveland, and Mary Johnson.
You knew Mary Johnson as a member of the Communist Party,
did you, or the Young Communist League ?
Mr. CowAN. I knew Mary Johnson as a member of the Young
Communist League.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you say it was al)out 1933 that Al Barry
was taken into the Communist Party from the Young Communist
League and then reassigned to work in the Young Commnnist League
in industrial work, is that correct?
Mr. CowAN. In the early part of 1933 or the latter part of 1932 —
it was that winter, anyhow, he was assigned to remain — he was given
party membership status from the league and graduated into the
party from the league and assigned to remain therein, but to add
to his usual youth activities certain youth trade union industrial
work.
]Mr. Matthews. Mr. Cowan, I show you a copy of the Daily
Worker for Monday, April 16, 1934. On page 2 thereof there is a
signed article entitled "Five Thousand Workers in Otis Steel Keacly
To Act." The date line is Cleveland, April 15, and the author of the
article is Al Barry.
Is that, in your judgTnent, the same man whom you have identified
from the photograph which I showed you a few moments ago?
Mr. Cowan. Yes, sir: because at that particular time a question
had arisen as to policy in the steel mills and we instructed Al Barry
at that time to investigate and report on the situation in the Otis,
Corigan, Kenney Steel, Republic plants, and Newberg plant of the
American Steel & Wire Co., and to write these up for the party press,
and this is definitely one of those articles.
Mr. Matthews. Do you happen to know whether Al Barry was a
citizen of the LTnited States?
Mr. Cowan. On that point I don't know.
Mr. Matthews. You do know that Al Barry was assigned by the
party to make reports on the progress of organization in the Otis
Steel Co. around this date
Mr. Cowan. Not on organization, on general conditions among the
workers.
UN-AMEiacAN i'U()PA(;anda activities 8631
Mr. Matthews. Oh ovneral coiulitions among the workers and that
this article in the Daily Woiker is one of the reports arising from
tliat assiiinment^
Mr. Cowan. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. IMr. Chairman, the committee has come into pos-
session of certain portions of the tiles of the secretary of the Com-
nuinirit I'artv in the State of Ohio. Herbert Goldfrank, which is in
the handwriting of Herbert Goldfrank. There is a sheet which
seems to refer to the American League membership and there is a
notation on this sheet "Al Barry contacts." 1 wonder if you can
advise us as to the best way to make that a part of the record?
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, if we could have someone who can
identify the handwriting of Goldfrank, it may be accepted. Do you
liave anvone who can do that ?
]\Ir. Matthews. The staff of the committee has no doubt about where
the document came from. Apart from the question of the handwriting
it did come from the brief case of Goldfrank in the State of Ohio.
Also, in the brief case of the secretary of the Communist Party of
Ohio there were certain letters. One letter is addressed to "Dear Com-
rade Goldfrank." The letter is signed "Comradely, G. Ellison." It
is dated "Cleveland, Ohio, September 22, 1938."
The subject matter of this letter has to do with a Communist Party
member who was being investigated by Charles Dirba of the central
control commission and the correspondent is writing to Comrade Gold-
frank and states that he or she has referred the matter for a follow-up
to "Al Balint."
There is a series of letters that came from Charles Dirba, whom the
witness has identified as the Communist International representative
on the central control commission of the Communist Party of the
United States, and from the correspondence it appears that Dirba,
through his local office in Cleveland, is checking up on another Com-
munist Party member through Al Balint.
Mr. Starnes. Well, if you have the information which you state you
have, and I am informed by the secretary of the committee that this
information was obtained by the committee investigator Randall in the
year 1939 in Cleveland, Ohio, and that it can be identified positively
as having been in the possession of this man Goldfrank, under such
circumstances you ma}' insert any or all of the correspondence in the
record.
Mr. Matthews. I should like to call your attention to the fact that
this appears to be indisputably documentary evidence making Al
Balint, who appeared here as a witness and who has now been identified
by this witness as "Al Barry," a member of the Communist Party,
trusted by the highest authority in the Communist Party, Charles
Dirba, of "the central control commission.
Mr. Starnes. Under the facts as recited to me by the secretary of
the committee as to the source of this material, it may be inserted in
the record.
Mr. Matthews. I would like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this
correspondence be not marked as an exhibit but copied in full in the
record.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
8632 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
(The documents referred to are as follows:)
Life History of Kenneth Orrville Gemmill, Sitbmitted January 3, 1938
My iiame is Kenneth Orrville Gemmill. Born December 20, 1904, in Orrville,
Ohio. Mother born June 1885 in, I believe, Dunkirk, Ohio. Father born 1878
in Reading, Pa., I believe.
Father i^ dead. He was 32 years old when he died. He was an electrical
engineer. Mother is living and is 52 years old. She is working part time for
the Kellogg Korset Co., branch store in Cleveland. After my father's death,
my mother worked for the National Carbon C<>., 1910 to 1925.
My mother was born of middle-class parents, her father was an insurance
broker until he had an accident which affected him physically and mentally.
He then became an evangelical preacher whereupon my grandmother divorced
him and went to work to support her family.
Economic status of family : After my father's death, my mother had to woi'k
in order to supply myself and my sister. By living frugally she was able to
save a little money. The family had no other income until I went to work.
My home environment has always been pleasant. My mother has always en-
couraged me to read and develop my own ideas. There were only two children,
myself and my sister. I have never had any religious training. I have never
had any religious affiliation. ]My parents never belonged to any political party
that I know of.
I began to work in I^ecember 1919 for the Big Four Railroad. Mechanic and
apprentice. Remained with the Big Four until December 1923. excepting the
time out during the big railroad strike in 1922.
(The following i:)]aces and time only approximate:) After leaving the rail-
road I worked for the Standard Oil Co. as station attendant in 1923; during
the latter part of 1923 I worked for the Glidden I'aint Co. in Cleveland. In
1924 I worked as a salesman for the Vance Motors Company, Smart Silk
Hosiery Mills and for several months in 1924-1925 I was insurance agent for
the National Life and Accident of Nashville. Tennessee, located in Cleveland.
March 1927 to March 1929, I was with the S. 8. Kresge 5-and-lO-cent stores as
stockman and lioorman, located in Cleveland; Canton, Ohio; and Gary, Ind.
After coming back to Cleveland from Gary, I took a course in mechanical
dentistry which I practiced from 1929 to 1935, owning my own laboratory.
From April 1936 to January 1937 I was employed at the Vv'inton Engine Co.,
in Cleveland, as a mechanic. Since January 1937 I have been employed full
time in party work.
I have never had an income other than my wages or profit from my work
in my laboratory.
I have never had any military service (except military training in .school).
During the World War I was in school. I am not married.
I have one sister living. Married. Her husband (Dr. Karl Reischauer was
killed in Shanghai bombing August 13, 1937). Since that time she has enrolled
in Columbia University and is now in the graduate class. Economic condition
fair. She has no children.
I have no children. My mother is quite sympathetic to our party. My
mother reads the Daily Worker, Sunday Worker, sometimes the Communist
and voted the Party ticket last national election. I have no relatives that I
know of that ever worked for the Government. I have never traveled outside
of the U. S. A.
I entered school in 1909. Finished grammar school and quit high school in
my second year to go to work. I attended school for 10 years. I had two
courses in political economy, one in Marxism-Leiniuism (Party education).
I am attending district training school now. I have read innmuerable party
pamphlets and Fuerbach, Anti-Duhring, Housing Question, Capital, vol. 1, parts
of vol. 2, selected works of Lenin, and so forth ; read the Communist C. I., im-
precor, party organizer. Daily Worker .also Leninism by Stalin. Of the above
I studied (in party classes) Capital, Foundations of Leninism. Strategy and
Tactics. The dictatorship of the Proletariat. Also Origins of Myths, and am
writing a paper on the effect of the Art of Pottery on Mosaic Creation Myth.
Familiar with English only, though studied French and Latin in high school.
Joined the C. P. in May 1936 in Cleveland. After joining recruited six to
seven friends immediately, all of whom are continually active in branches.
UX-AMEKICAN I'HOl'AOANDA ACTIVITIES 8633
Was mombor of unit bureau, elected niemliersbip directoi- of branch. In Decem-
ber 1986 was pbu'od in charge of arranging aftairs for the party by the secretary
of county comniittee. at the same time I was trying to reorganize tlie Daily
Worlver and literature departments. Alanli 1937 I was placed in charge of
D. W. Department for county. I am branch organizer at the present time.
Have never belonged to any political party other than the C. P. I came into
the party through my contacts with party members in the A. L. A. W. & F.
Comrade Williamson was the district organizer. Was recommended for party
by Comrade* Harry Rogers, who was at the time branch organizer. Was associ-
ated with league in Lakewood and Youth League. I have never been out of
party. Have attended county convention — 1936; Ohio State convention — 1937;
Mid-West Daily conference in Chicago.
Have recruited 14 members, and through written promise from Comrade
Biebel of West Lafayette, Indiana, to join the Party an entire brancli on the
campus of Purdue L'niversity (9 members) of which Comrade Biebel is organizer.
I have never been associated with an opposition group.
During the time I was employed by the Big 4, I was member of the
I. A of M. Joined in 1919 in Cleveland. Remained in iintil 1923. Never held
office in any union. Joined Auto-C. I. O. union and was partially respiuisible for
the .strong organization of the Winton Engine Co. when they were organized
by the auto workers. After giving up my job at Winton Engine to do party
work I have been dropped from union. Do not belong to any other organizations.
I have never participated in any government bodies.
I took part in the R. R. strike in 1922. actively taking part in the picketing
of the Linndale, Ohio, .shops. I have never been arrested.
Comrade Carl Winters can substantiate most of the data given since I joined
the party. Also Paul Guszits, member of Lakewood Branch, 2068 West One
Hundred and Third Street.
(The second document is as follows:)
Cleveland, Ohio, September 22, 193S.
De-vr Comrade Gou>frank : I am enclosing the life history of Gemill, as well
as the history of the case of Harry Howard.
The suspect, Harry Howard, was first reported to Carl by Gemill. I went out
to Gemill's home and interviewed the source from where he received the
information (Paul Guszits). By the way, the.se two members are very clo.se
friends, are always in each other's company.
I sent incptiries for a follow-up to Al Balint, A. S. & W. Branch, and to Com-
rade Winters, but never received replies from any of these.
Please return all this material for my files.
Regarding Gemill's history :
1. According to birth date, he went to work for the R. R. at 15 years of age
(that might be possible), but he joined the I. A. of M. also in 1919 in Cleveland,
and I don't think they accept members 15 years of age, even as apprentices.
2. No statement of where he worked between 1925 to March 1927 ; then for 2
years (March 1927 to March 1929) he worked for Kresge 5-10-cent stores in
three different cities: Cleveland, Canton, and Gary, Ind. (The state he says
that this Howard took a detective course.) He worked as a floorman and stock-
man in the 5-10-cent store, but does not state if the company sent him to the
three different cities to work, and why. Couldn't they get employees there to
do the work, or was he a .sipecial employee?
3. Tlien he took a cour.se in mechanical dentistry (where?) which he prac-
ticed until 1935 (6 years in his own laboratory)- (He started in 1029, during
the depression, last through the worst part of it, and when things began to
pick up, he went out of business.)
After whicli he secured a job at Winton Motor (through whom, an<l how was
he qualified to go from dentistry ro atito mechanics?)
he worked there 8 months (started in April 1936, joined the party 1 month
later), then quit his good job, to take a full-time party job as D. W. agent
6 months after.
Why did he quit a good paying job when he only became acquainted with the
party tlirough some contact ( ?) in the A. L. A. W. & F.?
What was he doing politically during the time he was in business?
Where was he located while in business; who were some of his clients; what
wholesale houses did he do business with?
8534 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
What connections has he with Comrade Biebel, of West LaFayette, lud. ?
I tliiuk you will have to work out a questionnaire, based upon his answers
to his life's history, and inquiries to Indiana party. I have emphasized certain
paragraphs in red pencil.
Comradely,
G. Ellison.
(The third document was in an o))ened envelope with the word
'^Personal" in the upper left-hand corner; in the center of the envelope
the name "Goldfrank." The document reads as follows :)
New York City, N. Y., Septewber 2t, 193S.
Dear Comrade Goldfeank: Wg have just finished going through the many
biographies we received some time ago and will need, as I told you previously,
considerable information more on a large ninnber of comrades. This time we
would like to get further information to complete the biography of Kenneth
Orville Gemnull. Please see that we get the following information promptly and
inform the comrades that as many pages should be written out as necessary to
give a full picture for our records. If this is done this time and in all other
cases, we will have a minimum amount of requests to make.
We notice that it is stated that he worked with >S. H. Kresge ('o. as a stock-
man and floorman in Gary, Ind., Canton, Ohio, and Cleveland, Ohio. We are
interested in knowing how he got the job with this company, where he was
lured, exactly the location of the •■■stores he worked in, and the exact month and
dates if possible when he worked in each store. We are interested in knowing
where he took his course in mechanical dentistry, since he practiced and oper-
ated as a mechanical dentist from 1929 to 1935, in his own laboratory. Where
was this laboratory located, and just incidentally to complete the records on
this point we would like some of the people he bought supplies from as well as
names and addresses of the companies and names of one-half dozen of some of
his clients.
Comrade Gemmill seems to be quite a competent person and we are wondering
what the connection is between work as a dental miH^'hanic and how he got his
job and was competent to work at the Winton Motor Co. If possible, we would like
to know through whom he got the job at Winton.
I want you to be certain, Comrade Goldfrank, to realize that out of the one-
hundred-odd questionnaires which we received from you in Ohio of all leading
comrades, that his is, I believe, the 18th that we have completed going through,
and had to ask further questions about and if the rest are inadequately completed
biographies, we will ask for further questions as we come to it. I am sorry that
you didn't do a better job in getting a full biography in the first place. Because
you know our records mean nothing unless they are completed. Awaiting your
immediate reply after you have gotten Comrade Gemmill's full reixirt.
Comradely yours.
(The fourth document is as follows:)
New York City, October 7, 1938.
Dear Goldfrank : I have been working on the biographies that I received from
you some time ago, and would like to get some furthei- information on Kenneth
Orville Gemmill.
As you know, the questionnaire has a point as to when one began to work,
what kind of work, and what was the complete history of various jobs held,
length of time in each job, name of company, where located, why changed jobs, if
fired from jobs, for what reason, and so forth.
On this point, the biography of Gemmill is very fragmentary. We suggest that
you see Gemmill and get a complete history on the point of various occupations
and jobs held by him.
Yours,
Charles.
Mr. Matthews. Are you acquainted from first-hand knowledge with
any other assignments which Al Barry received from the Communist
Party, Mr. Cowan?
Mr. Cowan. Not any other general assignments. The other assign-
ments, that is his other work would be but the execution of the general
assignment given to him by the party.
UX-AMEUICA.N i'UUrA(iANDA ACTIVITIES 8635
Mr. Matthews. Are you acquiiiuted with A. E. Stevenson, the chair-
nian of the Industrial Union Council of the C. I. O. in Cleveland ^
Mr. Cowan. I am.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not A. E. Stevenson is
a member of the Connnunist Party?
Mr. Cowan. 1 do not [positively know that Stevenson is a member
of the Connnunist Party. It has been reported to me by certain
persons that Stevenson 'i years a^o joined the Communist Party.
Mr. MA-rrnEWS. But you don't know that of your own knowledge?
Mr. CowAx. I don't know that he was definitely not a member of
the Connnunist Party when I was in the party.
Mr. IMattiiews. Are you satisfied from your own investigation of
the matter that Stevenson has followed the Comnnmist Party line
in his activities generally of late?
Mr. Cowan. 1 have personally witnessed A. E. Stevenson attend
fraction meetings of the Cleveland Industrial Union Council, which
fraction meetings are composed exclusively of party members. These
meetings have taken place in Cleveland, (3hio, on the west side.
Mr. Matthews. Are you acquainted with Ben Gray?
Mr. Cowan. I am.
Mr. Matthews. What do you know about Ben Gray and his con-
nection with the Communist Party, if any?
Mr. Cowan. Ben Gray was a member of the Communist Party
when I became a member and when I left the party he was still a
member, and I have positive knowledge in my conflicts with him in
his work in the Workers Alliance in 1936 and 1937, in Cleveland,
Ohio, that he is still a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Matthews. Were you ever sent by the Communist Party to
the west coast for any special mission?
Mr. Cowan. I was sent by the Communist Party's National Trade
Union in New York to the west coast in June of 1934, and remained
there during July of 1934 to work under the cover of the Workers
Ex-Service Men's League during the coast-wide seamen's and long-
shoremen's strike.
Mr. Matthews. Now, you say you were sent by the party to work
under the cover of the Workers Ex-Service Men's League. Do you
mean by that that fundamentally you were sent there to do Com-
munist Party work?
Mr. Cowan. I was sent there to do party work; yes.
Mr. Matthf:ws. But the auspices publicly were the auspices of
the Workers Ex-Service iVIen's League?
Mr. Cowan. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Were you told whom you should make contact
with when you reached San Francisco?
^[r. Cowan. I had my own list of contacts for my own office, of
the various officers of the posts of the Workers Ex-Service Men's
I^eague in the coastwise cities, from Seattle into Mexico and up into
Canada, and these names of the officers of the various posts were
divided in my list into party and nonparty members.
This list was used by me for the purpose of building uj) inass
meetings of veterans under a difficult situation in the coastwise cities.
I had been given an addition:d list of party members in lending
positions on the west coast, attached to the strike situation, and told
8Q36 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
definitely to get in touch with them and worlv with them in any ac-
tivities that I might carry out through the fraction method.
Mr. Matthews. Were you instructed to get in touch with any
individual in particular before you begun your work in the S;)n
Francisco area?
Mr. Cowan. These, of course, were individuals, individual members
of the jjiarty — leaders of the party there.
Mr. Matthews. Were you instructed t(^ get iii touch with Harry
Bridges when j'ou went to San Francisco before you undertook your
work?
Mr. Cowan. I was instructed to get in toucli with Harry Bridges
only insofar as my woik concerned the San Francisco Bay urea, but
I was warned at that time to be very careful in my contacrs with him
because insofar as the party trade union apparatus was concerned,
he was then considered to be more or less unreliable as to tbe p;irty
line. But, nevertheless, to work with him as he would attend the
meetings of the party in that area and give I'cports on which we
could base our own plans for activities in that region.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about tlie a^iivitie^ of
Henry Schmidt on the west coast at that time.
Mr. Cowan. I only know that at that time we were informed when
we went to the west coast, that all of the orders that would come
to us through the highest party committees, would reach us throvigh
Schmidt and that we were not to question his authority nor to expose
his whereabouts.
Mr. Ma^tthews. Did you understand tliat Schmidt was su]>erior to
the local party oi-ganization.
Mr. CoAVAN. W^e were so definitely told.
Mr. Matthews. Did you learn of the activities or anythiiig about
the activities of George Maurer on the west coast at that time?
Mr. Cowan. Not anything particularly. Arrests took place in
Sacramento at the time that I was supposed to meet Maurer, that
required me to go into southern Oregon for a time into hiding, and
the contact with Maurer was interru}>ted by the Sacramento arrests
and were never completed.
He did not figure to any great extent in the work tliut I did ihere
nor had I met him previously in any conferences or conventions. His
name did not appear on the party list tliat Avas gi^'en co me in New
York.
Mr. Matohews. Was George Maurer active according to the in-
formation Avhich you received, in the pai'ty fractions of the trade
unions on the west coast ?
Mr. Cowan. That I do not know,
Mr. Matthews. What was the significance of Ids name being given
to you ?
Mr. Cowan. I can only assume that since all such names given
to me were names of individuals situated in strategic positions in
the various unions, that he was one of those working for the parly
strategically in some of the unions or some of the activities surround-
ing the strike.
Mr. Mattheavs. Did I understand vou to sav that George Maurer
Avas Avorking more or less under coa er at that time on the coast ?
UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8637
Mr. CoAVAx. As I stated before, it was interrupted and lio luid
to ^o into hiding and so did 1, because of the status — his status
there of beiii<>- ordered to keep under cover.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I should like to call your attten-
tion to the fact that the coniniittee has in its j:)Ossessi()n bank records
Avhicli show that George .Maurer. about whom the witness is now
testifvino-. Jms in recent months received a sum of money approxi-
matiuii- $r>.(H)() from the Soviet (joverinnent.
Did you know AV'ilHam Z. Foster^
Mr. Cowan. I knew William Z. Foster; yes.
M)'. Matthews. Do you know Earl Browder?
Mr. Cowan. I knew Earl Browder.
Mr. Mattheavs. Do you know Robert Minor?
Mr. Cowan. I know Robert Minor.
Mr. Matthews. Did you ever go to Moscow ?
Mr. CowAx. No.
Mr. Matthews. "Were you evei' urged to go to Moscow?
Mr. CoAVAX. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mattheavs. By Avhom?
Mr. Coavan. First in 1931 by the district committee of the Com-
munist Party in Cleveland, Ohio. Later, on three different occa-
sions, in 1934 and 1935, bj' the central control commission of the
party in New York City.
Ml'. Mattheavs. Was that Dirba Avho suggested that you go to
MoscoAv ^
Mr. CoAVAN. Dirba Avas the representatiA-e of the control commis-
sion who made this, well, shall I say request. In fact is was an
order.
Mr. Mattheavs. Do you know EdAvard Cheyfitz?
Mr. CowAx. I know EdAvard Cheyfitz.
Mr. Mattheavs. Do you know whether or not EdAvard Cheyfitz is
a member of the Comnmnist Party?
Mr. CoAVAX. I do.
Mr. Mattheavs. AVas he a member of the party sometime ago?
Mr. Coavax. He Avas a member of the party in district 6, Ohio,
in its Toledo section, shortly before I Avas expelled from the part v.
Mr. Stakxes. AVho is this Cheyfitz you are talking about. Dr.
MattheAvs?
Mr. Mattheavs. Cheyfitz has been identified here, Mr. Chairman,
as the national executiA^e secretary of the National Association of
Die Casters.
Mr. Stakxes. Is that the same Cheyfitz, Mr. Cowan ?
Mr. Coavax. That is the same Cheyfitz.
]Mr. Stakxes. And you knoAv him positivelv as a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Cowan. I kneAv him then in the Toledo section and up until
1935 as a member of the Conimunist Party in tlie Toledo section.
Mr. Stakxes. Did you attend Conmnmist Partv meetinjzs Avith
him? . ^
Mi-. Coavax. I did.
^Iv. Stakxes. Did you engage in Communist Partv Avork Avith
him ?
§538 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Cowan. No; I did not. The only work that I had was this:
I was sent from the center in Clevehmd, Ohio, the district center,
to various sections of the party, from time to time in our district,
as the district representative, to speak to the i)arty membership on
the internal affairs and to lay down the line of the party to the
section membership.
Cheyfitz attended those meetings in Toledo on two occasions that
I was sent there as a district representative for the section prior
to 1935.
Mr. Staenes, In that connection I think the Chair should call
attention to the fact that Mr. Cheyfitz sent a telegram to the Presi-
dent of the United States in March of this year. I will now read it
into the record. It was carried in all of the daily newspapers of
this country. The telegram which Mr. Cheyfitz made public, which
he sent to the President, who was at that time vacationing in Florida
waters, and this was in connection with the strike in the Harvill
Die Casting Union on the Pacific coast. The telegram was as
follows :
In the interests of the Nation's welfare, I urge that the United States Gov-
ernment take immediate possession of the Harvill Airci-aft Die Casting Cor-
poration.
That is what Cheyfitz in his telegram to the President said; and
I further quote:
Henry Harvill, president of the c'ompany, has deliherately flouted your repre-
sentatives by refusing to sit down and negotiate settlement of the strike. In
the name of the Harvill employees and the National Association of Die Casters,
I now request you to exei'cise your Executive authority vested in you and
take over this plant.
The same press carries a denial of that statement by the two
mediators which Mr. Hillman sent to the west coast to mediate the
difficulty. The Chair thinks it is highly important that this be made
a part of the record at this time in connection with the testimony
now being given by Mr. Cowan.
Mr. Matthews. IVIr. Cowan, do you know Fay Stevenson?
Mr. Cowan. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not from press accoinits
that Fay Stevenson has been active in recent strike activities in the
Alumiimm plant in Cleveland?
Mr. Cowan. I know these tilings generally from observing certain
parades of the trade-union movement, and the general press accounts,
and other such sources of information.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Fay Stevenson is or
was a member of the Communist Paity?
Mr. Cowan. I know that Fay Stevenson was, while I was a mem-
ber, a member of the Communist Party, and I have positive knowl-
edge that she still is.
Mr. Starnes. Can you further identify Fay Stevenson?
Mr. Matthews. Yes; I am going to ask the witness if he knows
what relationship Fay Stevenson bears to Edward Cheyfitz.
Mr. Cowan. She is his mother.
Mr. Matthews. Fay Stevenson is Edward Cheyfitz's mother?
Mr. Cowan. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Was lier former husband a Mr. Chevfitz?
UN-AMEKK'A.N I'KOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8639
Ml-. Cov. AN. Mr. Clicvfitz, yes. of Toledo, Oliio.
Mr. Matihews. Do you know Paul Martin?
Mr, Cowan. I do not personally know Paul Martin. I liave seen
him in certain activities, but never met tlie man.
Mr. ^Iattiikws. Hut you know from the situation in Cleveland tliat
he is the })iesident of the local that was on strike recently, do you not?
Mr. Cowan. I know that generally, from general sources.
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, will you be able a little later to give
further information about Paul Martin by another witness?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, INIr. Chairman. That is all of this witness.
Mr. Starnes. That will be all, Mr. Cowan, and thank you.
AA'ho will be your next witness. Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. The next witness is Mr. Mosberger.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN M. MOSBERGER. FORMER MEMBER. COM-
MUNIST PARTY
Mr. Staknes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand, Mr.
Mosberger? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give
before this connnittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God {
Mr. Mosberger. I do.
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Will you ])lease give your full name?
Mr. Mosberger. My full name is John M. Mosberger.
Mr. Matthews. Will yon si)ell your last name?
Mr. Mosberger. M-o-s-b-e-r-g-e-r.
Mr. Matthews. Where Avere you born?
Mr. Mosberger. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Matthews. When ?
Mr. Mosberger. November 2. 1908.
Mr. Matthews. Where do you reside at the present time?
Mr. Mosberger. Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Matthews. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Mosberger. Yes; I was.
Mr. Matthews. When did you join the Conmnmist Party?
Mr. Mosberger. I joined in 1938.
Mr. Matthews. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. MosBERfiER. Xo ; I am not.
Mr. Matthews. When and why did you (piit the Connnunist Party?
Mr. Mosberger. T didn't quit. I resigned from the Connnunist
Party because of a disagreement over parliamentary procedure.
Mr. Ma'ithews. When was that ?
Mj-. Mosbkr(;er. That was in 1940.
Mr. Matthews. Do you remembei- the month?
Mr. Mosberger. Xo: I couldn't tell you ])ositively. It was in be-
tween Ahu-ch. Ai)ril, and May.
Mr. Mattih:ws. JU'tween March and May of last year?
Mr. Mosberger. Yes.
Mr. INIatthews. Did you as a member of the Communist Party know
a man by the name of Radden ?
Mr. Mosberger. Yes. sir; I do Ivtiow Edward Radden.
Mr. Matthews. Edward Radden — how do you spell his name ?
i;L'n2n— 41 — vol. 14 :^]
8640 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. MosBERGER. R-a-d-d-e-ii.
Mr. Matthews. Did you know him to be a member of the Conmiivmst
Party ?
Mr. MosBERGER. Yes ; I did.
Mr. Matthews. How did you know that he was a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. MosBERGER. Because I went to his home every Wednesday night
to take him to the meetings. He was very hard to get to the meetings,
so I went for him all the time. Also, I gave liini instructions.
Mr. Starnes. Wio is this Radden ? Can you identify him for me ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. Edward Radden was one of the men who
came to Washington last week to negotiate the aluminum strike with
the Defense Mediation Board.
Mr. Starnes. Is that correct, Mr. Witness ? Is he the same Radden ?
Mr. Mosberger. The same Radden ; yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. What position did you hold in your unit of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Mosberger. I was branch educational director.
Mr. Matthews. As branch educational director of j^our unit of the
Communist Party, did you have any supervisory relationship to
Edward Radden ?
Mr. Mosberger. (No response.)
Mr. Matthews. Did vou instj-uct him or delegate him to do
anything ?
Mr. Mosberger. No; I did not. I merely gave him assignments
for speaking.
Mr. Matthews. You gave him assignments for speaking?
Mr. Mosberger. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Did he carry out those assignments?
Mr. Mosberger. Yes ; he did.
Mr. Mattiieavs. W^ere those assignments for the Conmninist Party ?
Mr. Mosberger. Absolutely.
Mr. Matthews. You have absolutely no doubt then that Edward
Radden — —
Mr. Mosberger. No question about it at all.
Mr. Matthews. Was a member of the Communist Party at least
up until the strike of 1940?
Mr. Mosberger; No doubt about it at all up to the time I resigned.
Mr. Matthews. That is all. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you, Mr. Mosberger.
Who will be your next witness?
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Robert B. Barker.
TESTIMOIJY OF EGBERT B. BARKEE, INVESTIGATOR FOR THE
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Barker, will you please stand and raise your
right hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. Barker. I do.
Mv. Starnes. Mr. Barker, have you this date been in touch with
the office of the clerk of the Criminal Court of Cuyahoga County,
Ohio?
UN-A3IERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8641
Mr. Bakker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Staknes. On instructions from the chairman of the com-
mittee i
'>«Mr. Barker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starxes. Did you obtain from that office a report on the
criminal record of one Paul Martin?
Mr. Barker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. Will you state for the benefit of the record what
that report is^
Mr. Baukei;. Yes. sir; Paul Martin, alias, is the local president —
he is the president of Local 55, C. I. O., Die Casters Union at the
Aluminum Co. of America in their plant in Cleveland, Ohio.
H(> has had six convictions for felonies, including three for auto-
mobile theft. The last conviction was for robbery with firearms
for which he received a sentence of 1 to 25 years. He served 7 years
and came out of the penitentiary and assumed the alias of "Paul
Martin." and the Ohio State Parole Board at Columbus has re-
voked his parole and has sent a warrant to the sheriff of Cuyahoga
County, Ohio, for this man's arrest and return lo the State peni-
tentiary at Columbus to serve the remaining 17 years of his sentence.
Mr. Chairman, I was also advised that a warrant has been issued
for Alex Balint for false statements made in his alien registration
statement, by the United States Commission at Cleveland, Ohio.
That news just came in a few minutes ago.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you. In view of the present critical situation
with reference to international affairs, and the extraordinary efforts
that our own Government is making to place its house in order, and
to pro\4de security for the people of this Nation, the Chair invites
attention to a statement contained in the committee's report which
was written in the jeiw 1938. I quote :
American labor has Ixirne the brunt of the Communist efforts to imrsue the
policy of iM'iirratidii of mass organizations in tlie past 4 years and, to the degree
that that effort has l)eeu successful. American labor 1ms a task of great seriou^i-
ness and imiiortanee on its hands. The serious factor in the situation, from
the .stai'.diioint of the Nation as a whole, lies not so much in tlie purely economic
views which the members of labor organizations may liold. as in the foreign
control over Connnunist Party members, which miglit in time <;f stress lead
to sabotage and to espionage, and in rlie Communist rule-or-ruiu policy so dis-
ruptive to the labor organizations themselves.
The ('(mnnittee believes that the Americiui labor movement must, and will, as
speedily as possible, free itself of Communist leadership and control wherever
it exists.
The committee is emphatic in its belief that a strong and vigorous l.ilwr move-
ment is an element of strength in the life of our democracy. But the committee
must a.ssert that the Communist Party is interested in tr.-Mle-unions iirimarily
for the purp.ose of attempting to utilize those labor organizations for the benefit
of the Russian dictatorship and its foreign policies.
The Chair feels that the statement of the committee made more
than a year and a half ago, which seemed to be so strong at that time,
in the light of subsequent events is an understatement of the present
situation. The events which have transpired in this coimtry in the
past 12 niottths have been so startling that they shock the conscience
of this Nation. No longer are we a self-com))lacent Nation and no
longer do we laugh and scoff at the threat which Comnnmist pene-
tration into the American labor movement holds for the safety and
security of 130.000.000 American people: no longer is the committee
8642 UN-AMEKICAX I'ROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
charged with being "red baiters," "witch hunters," nor an agency set
up to destroy the rights of American labor.
Responsible labor leaders themselves now recognize the gravity of
the situation and belatedly they are moving to cleanse their household
of these subversive elements.
During the past 2 weeks the Nation has witnessed the spectacle of
a rank-and-file movement in one of our great laboi' organizations in
an endeavor to rid itself of subversive leadership which has the effect
of sabotaging our defense program. Let us look for a moment at
the phase of investigation before the committee during the past 2
weeks. Aviation constitutes one of our bottlenecks.
We find the North American plant closed and the President of the
United States having to use the Army of the United States to open
that plant so that it may produce foi' our security. We have sworn
testimony of the president of the striking local out there that he regis-
tered as a Communist in 1938; we have additional testimony that other
Communists were prominent leaders in that strike movement. Dur-
ing the past week we have the spectacle of a strike in the ahimiiium
industry in the city of Cleveland, closing down a plant out there vital
and essential to our national defense.
Kenneth Eggert, a leader in the Harvill Ali-craft Co. strike in
March of this year, a student in the school of Lenin at Moscow, an
expert in sabotage and labor organization, pulled a strike in tliat j^lant
and Mr. Cheyfitz, who has been identified today by competent wit-
nesses as a Communist Party member, telegi'aphed the President of
the United States urging him to take over the Hai'vill Aircraft Co.
plant in the name of the Govermnent of the United States and oper-
ate it. That strike was led by Connnunists; the North American
strike was led by Conmuniists.
The Attorney" General of the United States says that the Vidtee
Aircraft strike was led by Connnunists, and here we find the strike at
the Aluminum Co. of America at Cleveland led by Connnunists.
Alex Balint, identified here by competent witnesses who have no
interest to serve other than the best interests of their country, as
l)eing a Communist, regional director in that area of the Die Casters
Union; Mr. Cheyfitz again a])i)ears on the scene in this particular
strike and we have the unusual spectacle of the regional director of
this union in the Cleveland area being not only a Connnunist but
being an alien and admitting here under oath that he had served
in a penal institution in the State of Illinois for the theft of an auto-
mobile.
The chairman is informed by the conmiittee's investigator in the
Cleveland area, Mr. ,Tackson, that Paul Martin, who was identified
here this afternoon as a Communist, is the president of the local
union which went on strike out there, and that Mr. IVIaitin has a
record of being six times convicted and having served 7 years of a
sentence for armed robbery in the State of Ohio. This is an unusual
s])ectacle. It is a spectacle that does no credit to the American labor
movement and it does no credit to the United States of America.
It is a sad commentary when alien Communists and Communists
with long prison records lead local unions on a strike at this critical
hour against their Government. These strikes are directed at the
most vital bottlenecks in our defense program.
rX-A.MKUICAN TKOFAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8643
The cliairinaii feels tlini lespdiisible labor leaders in America and
the rank and file of the labor movement in America shonld move
heaven and earth to rid themselves of these barnacles. Tf they do not
thev will surely deserve the public tlisfavor and the iniblic contempt
which they would so richly deserve by failure to act.
The Chair also feels it is incumbent on every agencj^ of the Fed-
eral (iovermnent to coo])erate witli this ccmimittee in an effort to
expose the activities of hibor leaders who are agents of foreign gov-
ernments and who are slowing down and sabotaging our defense pro-
gram to the end that there will be a cession of such activities and
to the end that America may have the security which her citizenship
wants and to which she is entitled.
I might say that it is also a sad commentary on current events when
ex-convicts, aliens, Conmnniists. and agents of foreign governments
are permitted to come to the capital of this Nation to negotiate labor
disputes with American business management before the United
States Conciliation Service and the National Defense Mediation
Board.
The conmiittee will stand adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 5:40 p. m., the committee adjourned w^ithout
date.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
MONDAY, AUGUST 11, 1941
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Special Committee,
TO Investigate Un-American Activities,
Washington., D. C.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., in the Caucus Room, House Office
Building, Hon. Joe Starnes (chairman of the subconnnittee), pre-
sidin<x.
Present: Messrs. Starnes (cliairnian of the subcommittee), Voorhis,
and Mason.
Also present: Mr. Robert E. Striplino;, chief investigator, and Dr.
J. B. Matthews, director of research.
Mr. Starnes. Tlie committee will come to order.
The subcommittee is meeting this morning for the purpose of hear-
ing testimony regarding Nancy Reed and others.
It a])pears from information which has come to the chairman
and to the subconnnittee, that Nancy Reed is evading an appearance
before this committee.
A subpena has been served and proper notice has been given of
the hearing, but she fails to appear, therefore, it will be necessary
to use the testimony of the connnittee investigators concerned in this
investigation, plus the documentary evidence that is in possession of
the committee, in order to proceed with this particular hearing.
Now, if it is agreeable with the subcommittee, we will establish the
fact for the record that the sul)penas were issued.
Mr. Stripling, will you stand and raise your right hand and be
sworn.
TESTIMONY OF ROBEET E. STRIPLING, CHIEF INVESTIGATOR,
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall
give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God ?
Mr. Stripling. I do.
Mr. Starnes. As secretary of the connnittee, did you cause a sub-
pena to be issued for Nancy Reed to appear before this subconnnittee?
Mr. Stripling. Yes. sir; on June 18.
:Mi-. Starnes. That is June 18, 1941 ?
Mr. Stripling. 1941 ; yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. What did you do with the subpena ?
8645
gg46 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Stripling. It was sent to Investigator Stephen Birmingham,
who served the siibpena.
Mr. Starnes. Sent to Investigator Birmingham in New York City?
Mr. Stripung. Yes, sir ; who served the subpena.
Mr. Starnes. Does the snbpena shoAv it has been served ?
Mr. Stripling. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. What happened after the service of the subpena,
did Miss Reed get in touch with the connnittee in any way by her
attorney or personally ?
Mr. Stripling. The subpena was a forthwith sul)pena and Mr.
Nathan Witt of the law firm of Witt & Lighter called me in Wash-
ington and stated that he would like to get a continuance.
I conferred with the members of the committee and it was agreed
that Mrs. Reed could a})pear at a future date providing she was given
48 hours' notice by the committee.
Last Friday I was instructed by the chairman of the subconunittee,
Mr. Starnes, to notify Miss Reed and also Mr. Witt to appear here
today.
For the record I would like to put these telegrams in evidence. The
telegram to Nancy Reed was addressed : "36 LTnion Square, New York
City."
lu response to the subpena served on you, you are hereby directed to appear
before the Special Committee on Uu-American Activities in Room 531, Old House
Office Building, Washington, D. C, at 10 a. m., on Monday, August 11, 1941.
That is signed : '^Robert E. Stripling."
A similar telegram was sent to Nathan Witt at 9 East Fortieth Street,
New York City, N. Y., which read :
You are hereby directed to notify your client, Miss Nancy Reed, that in response
to a subpena served on her, she is to appear before the Special Committee on
Un-American Activities in Room 531, Old House Office Building, Washington,
D. C. at 10 a. m., Monday, August 11, 1941.
Mr. Chairman, this morning when neither Mr. Witt nor Miss Reed
appeared I called Mr. Witt's office in New York City and was told that
he was in Corning, N. Y. I asked to speak to Mr. Lighter. I was told
that Mr. Lighter was not in, but a gentleman in the office told me that
he would have Mr. Lighter call me.
Mr. Lighter did not call. However, the gentleman in the office called
and said that he had contacted Mr. Lighter and that Mr. Lighter said
that they were making every effort to locate Miss Reed. I reminded
him of the agreement of the committee of the 48 hours' notice, and so
forth, and told him I would submit that information to the com-
mittee.
Mr. Starnes. The telegrams were delivered so far as you know?
Mr. Stripling. They were delivered ; yes.
Mr. Starnes. Any questions, Mr. Mason?
Mr. Mason. No questions.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. Mason. I would suggest we proceed with the hearing based on
the evidence that we have present and the testimony of our investigator.
Mr. Starnes. Whom will you have Dr. Matthews ?
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham.
Mr. Starnes. Mr. Birmingham, will you please stand and raise your
right hand.
UN-A>rKUI(AN TKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8647
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN W. BIRMINGHAM. INVESTIGATOR,
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. Do you solcnuily swear that the testimony you are
about to ffivo will be the trutb, tiie whole truth, and notliiuir but the
truth, so help you God i
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Staknes. Will you i)lease state your full name?
Mr. Birmingham. Stephen W. Birminfrham.
Mr. Starnes. And vou aie an investigator for the cxmmiittee, Mr.
Birmingham?
iVfr. Birmingham. I am.
Mr. Starnes. And you have been connected with the committee since
1938?
Mr. Birmingham. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. Did you serve a subpena on Nancy Reed at any time,
to appear before this committee?
Mr. Birmingham. I did, at 30 Lafayette Street, New York City.
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, will you please state briefly your
experience in investigative and detective work?
Mr. Birmingham. From 1910 to 1920 I was first-grade detective in
the New York Police Department in the safe and loft squad. In 1917
I w^as a special agent in the military intelligence in the War College in
Washington in charge of the field agents— German propaganda and
spy activities in the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia.
I was with the McCormick committee as the chief investigator in
1934. with the lobby probe m 1936, and with the Dies committee from
1938 to 1941.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, in the course of your work as an
investigator for this committee, did you come into possession of numer-
ous documents which pertained to the activities of one Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. MattheW'S. Did you obtain these docmnents by properly drawn
subpenas?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please state where you obtained these doc-
uments— that is, give a general geographical account ?
Mr. Birmingham. In December 1940 I received some information
from a confidential source that a ring of agents of the Commtmist
Party was operating in the United States and Europe. I was in-
formed that in the vicinity of Seventieth Street, buried in a cellar
were some records. I contacted some people and took those records by
serving a subpena on the person in whose custody they were.
I received some additional information and cm February 19, 1941,
accomi)anied by George Hurley. I went to Sandwich, Conn., looking
for seven boxes of records in wooden boxes. After digging under a
house under the dirt and a lot of canvas we uncovered three out of the
seven boxes, which are some of these records that Dr. iSIatthews has.
Mr, MATTH^3^vs. Were there physical evidences that four or more
other boxes had been buried there?
Mr. Birmingham. There was.
Mr. Matthews. In the same vicinity?
8648 UN-AJ\IERICAN PROPAG.^^DA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Birmingham. There were imprints in the dirt showing other
boxes had been there and had been removed.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, have you familiarized your-
self with the documents obtained in the mannei- which you have just
described ?
Mr. Birmingham. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Would you be able to identify those documents
one by one?
Mr. Birmingham. I would. I read them and liad tb.em photo-
stated in my New York olHce — every one of them.
Mr. Matthews. Have vou spent a period of months examining
them ?
Mr. Birmingham. And I have cataloged them.
Mr. Matthew^s. Have you spent a period of months examining
these documents i
Mr. Birmin(jham. For the ])ast 4 months.
Mr. Matthews. Wc^dd you say, Mr. Birmingham, that others be-
side Nancy Reed are prominently involved in these documents?
Mr. Birmingham. They are.
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, when one of the committee aides
brings the original documents into the committee room, have them
identified by Mr. Birmingham, and then you can use the photostats
for the record.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, will you ])lease come over here
to tlie table and look at this collection of folders and state whether
or not these are folders prepared by you and contain the documenrs
to which reference has been made in your testimony?
Mr. BiRMiNOiiAiM. They are and they were all prepared by me
and put in the folders.
Mr. Matthew\s. Are these the original documents obtained?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes; at Cape Cod and in the seventies in New
York City.
Mr. Matt'hews. Did you serve a subpena on the caretaker of the
property at Sandwich, Cape Cod, when you obtained the documents
there ?
Mr. Birmingham. I did; she was a Miss K. Ellis.
Mr. Matthews. K-a-y?
Mr. Birmingham. No; the initial "K" Ellis.
Mr. Starnes. She was the custodian of the property at the time?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, sir. It was a summei- resort up there.
There was nobody there when I went up.
Mr. Starnes. Now, from time to time. Dr. Matthews, in referring
to these it is all right to use the photostats?
Mr. Matthews. At any time the committee desires it will be a
simple matter to produce the original for the photostats, which will
be offered in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. All right. But before we go any further, are you
going to show by Mr. Birmingham or by Mr. Hurley or by your
own testimony who Nancy Reed is?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct. Mr. Birmingham, have you, in
the course of your inquiry ascertained something of the background
of Nancy Reecl?
Mr. Birmingham. I have.
UN-A.MKK1CAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8649
Mr. Ma'ithews. Can yoii tell Iho coinniitiee ^vh() Nancy Reed's
mother is?
]\fr. ]^iRMTNGiiA:Nr. }\vv motliei- is ISIrs. Fernanda Reed of Cam-
bri(l«2:e. Mass.. oriuinally, and one of the third owners of the New
York Daily Worker.
Mr. Matthews. Is that Fernanda — F-e-r-n-a-n-d-a W. Reed —
R-e-e-d?
Mr. Birmingham. Right.
Mr. Ma'ithfws. She with tAvo otiier persons are the ow^ners of the
Daily AVorker?
Mr. Birmingham. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know api)roximately how long Fernanda
Reed has been one of the owners of the Daily Worker?
i\Ir. BiRiMiKGHAM. Positively I couldn't tell you — about a year and
a half, but these records will show when she took that position.
Mr. Matthews. Now, did you discover from these documents that
Nancy Reed has a sister ?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthfavs. And who is the sister of Nancy Reed ?
Ml-. B RMiNGHAM. Maiy Reed.
Mr. IMatthews. Where does Mary Reed reside at present?
Mr. Birminghajni. Her married name is Mai-^y^ Copeland. She
lives at ]H'esent in Leningrad, Russia.
Mr. MATTHEW'S. Is Mary Reed Copeland prominently involved in
these documents ?
Mr. Birmingham. She is.
Mr. jSIatthew^s. Is Fernanda Reed, the mother of Nancy and Mary
Reed, prominently involved in these documents?
]\Tr. Birmingham. She is.
Mr. Matthew\s. Did you ascertain whether or not Fernanda Reed
has a son?
INIr. Birmingham. She has.
Mr. Matthews. And what is the son's name?
Mr. Birmingham. Willard Reed, Jr.
IVIr. Matthews. Do you know where Willard Reed, Jr., has been
employed recently ?
JNIr. B:RMiNGHA:\r. With the American Airlines.
Mr. MattheW' s. Do you have any information that he has severed
his connection with the American Airlines?
Mr. Btrmingha]m. I have some information which I haven't
checked.
Mr. Matthews. Have you a report that he is now residing outside
of the United States?
Mr. Birmingham. I have.
Mr. Matthews. And where does that report indicate that he is
at |)resent employed ?
Mr. BiRAriNGHA:sr. Su]iposed to be in New Zealand.
Mr. ^Matthews. What is ho doing in New Zealand?
Mr. BiRAiiNGHAM. Training airplane flyers — that is the story.
Mr. Matthews. Now, does the informaticm involved in these sev-
eral bundled documents show conclusively in your opinion, Mr. Bir-
mingham, that Fernanda Reed, the mother; Nancy Reed, the
daughter; Mary Reed, the daughter; and Willard Reed, Jr., the son,
have all been Communists?
8650 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Birmingham. It does.
Mr. Matthews. Does it show that they have been actual members
of the Communist Party?
Mr. Birmingham. It does.
Mr. Matthews. Does it show they have been extraordinarily active
as members of the Comnnuiist Party?
Mr. Birmingham. It does.
Mr. Matthews. Referring particularly to Nancy Eeed, have you
ascertained whei'e Nancy Reed is presently employed ?
Mr. Birmingham. In the State Welfare Department, New York
City.
Mr. Matthews. Is that a division of the Department of Labor of
theStateof New York?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. And do you know the exact title of her position?
Mr. Birmingham. She is a senior investigator of handicapped
people, is my understanding.
Mr. Matthews. Is she in the division of placement and unemploy-
ment insurance of the department of labor ?
Mr. Birmingham. That is where she is in charge of handicapped
persons.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know, Mr. Birmingham, whether or not
charges have been brought against Miss Nancy Reed in the Depart-
ment of Labor of the State of New York ?
Mr. Birmingham. I believe they have by Connnissioner Godfrey
Schmidt.
Mr. Matthews. Is it your information that a hearing has been
held at which a Nancy Reed testified in a proceeding under oath ?
Mr. Birmingham. There have been several hearings befcfi'e Com-
missioner Schmidt.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify this document as the transcript
of the hearing to which you i-ef er ?
[Handing manuscript to the witness.]
Mr. Birmingham. I can. That is a copy of her testimony at the
hearing.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this entire document be
received in evidence in the matter pertaining to Nancy Reed.
Mr. Starnes. What is the document. Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews. The document is a transcript of the hearing before
Deputy Commissioner Godfrey Schmidt of the Department of Labor
of the State of New York, at which Nancy Reed was a witness under
oath.
Mr. Starnes. Does it have any pertinency to the inquiry that we
have under way at the present time, and will you offer documentary
pi^oof and oral testimony here wliich would be in conflict with that
or contradictory of some of her statements?
Mr. Matthews. The relevance of this document is that Miss Reed
under oath made numei-ous statements before the Deputy Commis-
sioner of the Department of Labor for the State of New York,
which are in conflict with the document;n\v evidence which is in this
committee's possession.
Mr. Starnes. Does that deal with or would it have an}^ relevancy
with un-American and subversive activities ?
rX-AMKUirAN rROrA(JANDA ACTrVITIES 8651
Mr. Matthews. The lieai-in<!; before the deputy commissioner of the
(le.i)artineiit of hibor dealt, I should say, exclusively with the question
of Miss Reed's coiuiections with the Communist Party and her activi-
ties in the Connnunist Party.
Mr. Stakxes. It will be received and the reporter will incorporate
it in the record.
(The transcript of testimony above referred to is as follows:)
Minutes ok Inkoumal Hf.aring Hklh tn the Office of the DtrrpARTMENx of Labor
BEa'T)KE Deputy Comaiissionek GoDFKi':Y P. Schmidt, Room 4.57, SO Centre Street,
New York City, on June 3, 1941, at 3 p. m.
Present: Mr. Jacob H. Mason, Division of Placement and Unemployment Insur-
ance, 342 Madison Avenue, New Yorlv City ; Mr. A. Victor Hansen, Division of
Placement and Unemployment Insurance, Alliany, N. Y. ; Miss Nancy Reed, Divi-
sion of Placement and Unemployment Insurance, 80 Lafayette Street, New York.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. I suppose. Miss Reed, tliat you have read these various newspaper clippings
about your alleged affiliation with the Communist Party [handing clippings to
Miss Reed]? — A. (After examining clippings.) Haven't seen this one [indicating].
Q. Haven't you? — A. What is the newspaper?
Q. I really don't know the name. Is that one of the Long Island papers?— A. It
doesn't say at the top. Before I go any further, may I ask a little more about
this inquiry?
Q. Surely ; you may ask any questions you want. — A. What it is about, and
what it is for?
Q. Yes. In the first jjlace, there is no charge against you, and the only reason
for the inquiry is to ascertain facts beyond the basis of these newspaper rumors,
and since you were the one directly mentioned in the newspapers, I felt that it
woiUd bo ouly fair to give you a fair opportunity to acknowledge them or to
deny them or to make any statement in reply to them that you felt called upon
to make, because you can appi'eciate that there is a law that — ^the Devaney law —
that in effect forbids Communists from being in the employ of the State, or at
least in express language forbids the State from employing persons who advo-
cate the overthrow of tin; Government by illegal or violent means. Now, I want
you to unilerstand that so far as I am concerned, and I am the one who is con-
ducting the hearing. I conduct it without any prejudice whatever, and without
any presumptions for or against you. Frankly, I want to get the facts, and I
know that since you are an employee there is every reason to suppose that you
are willing to cooperate in giving me all the facts. Now, does that satisfy you
as to the purpose of the hearing? As I say, it has nothing whatever to do with
any charges against you at the moment. Obviously, if you were for example to
acknowledge membership in the C<jmmunist Party or acknowledge advocacy of
the doctrines prescribed by the Devaney law, then we would have to consider,
po.ssibly. ihe insiitntion of cliarges against you, but as of the present moment, my
purpose is purely fact-hnding. and 1 ask your cooperation. — -A. Is it for the press
at all? I mean, is it fiu- the ailministralion to give to the press?
Q. This is entirely for the administration. — A. You see, I didn't know. 1
didn't know Mr. Hansen's name, and the request came to me without going
througli Mr. Davis (phonetic), and I really was at a loss to know quite what ii
was about.
Q. M;iyb«! that was really my fiinlt, bur I don't think we have ever met before,
and therefore — you understand that I am Deputy Industrial Commissioner, and
I have just given you my card. Now, have you any other question to ask before
we proceed to the investigation? — A. No. I would like to answer any questions.
Q. Now, I have just shown you a slieaf of newspaper clippings. — A. I have seen
this one [indicating].
Q. I asked whether you had seen any of tliem before? — A. I have seen this one.
from the New York World Telegram, on Tuesday [indicating]. I haven't .seen
this one [indicating].
Q. Wotdd you mind reading that? — A. Surel.y. (Witness reads clipping.)
Q. Now. are there any misstatements of fact in those articles that you just
lead? — A. Yes; tiie finst one.
gQ52 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. Would yon mind identifying for us tlie mistatement? Just read it into the
record we are mailing? — A. That 'her sister is now employed by the Comintern."
Q. Do you have a sister, Miss Reed? — A. I have a sister. She lives in the
Soviet Union now, but she is not employed by them.
Q. She is not emplo.ved by whom? — A. By them.
Mr. Hansen. But she is living there?
Miss Rked. She has lived there for years.
Mr. Mason. Has she ever been employed by them?
Miss Reed. Yes.
Mr. Mason. When did she cease her affiliations?
Miss Reed. About 6 years ago.
Q. What is your sister's name? — A. Maiy.
Q. Mary Reed?— A. Yes.
Q. Now, is there any other statement in there that's not ac-curale? — A. Well, a
good deal of the union material I would criticize. I didn't know whether you
meant just what affects me personally.
Q. You can criticize any part that you feel is in.-u-curate. — A. I never remember
at all hearing sinyone on the executive board say that Mr. Rosenfeld was a union
buster, and that, "We haven't got the goods on you yet, and we will keep you under
surveillance." I know of no committee whatsoever that was ever appointed to
do any such work of that sort. It is pretty hard to pick out these things.
Mr. Mason. How many members are on the i^xe<'utive ciiuniiittee?
Miss Reed. Seventeen.
Q. Well, of course, one of the statements in one of those elippiugs says that
you are a Communist, is that true? — A. It doesn't say that here. It says that
I was asked over the telephone, and to whicii I refused an answer.
Q. Well, let's go into that. Frederick WoKman. (»f the World Telegram, said
he telephoned your office, and asked you whetlier you were a Communist, and
I believe he said you refused to answer'/ — A. Right.
Q. Well, are you a Comnuniist? — A. No.
Q. Were you ever a Conmumist? — A. No.
Q. That is to say, you never were, and are not now a member of the Connuuuist
Party, and never belonged to any fraction of the ConununiHt Pait.v'r — A. If you
belong to a cell or fraction you would automatically belong to th:^ Communist
Party.
Q. May I ask why. Miss Reed, you refused to tell Woltman rhat? — A. Well,
really, when he asked me about the union business, it was not my business to
answer him, and I referi'ed :ill such questions to .lames King, who is our local
president, and as far as giving any newspaper reporter any statement on my
political attiliations or personal life in any way, I saw no reason to make any
answer to him at all. He just slid that in as fast as he could after he asked me
the first question about the executive board.
Q. Did you ever write any articles for the New Mjisses? — A. No; I haven't.
Q. For the Comnuniist Monthly'.^ — A. No.
Q. For the Third International, the quarterly *!' — A. NO; I am nol a writer.
Q. Or, for the Daily Worker'? — A. No; I haven't.
Q. You see, the fact that you are not a writer doesn't necessarily mean th<it
you didn't write, because as you probably know, there are a lot of people writing
today who are not writers. Is that statement true, to the effect that your mother
is Mrs. Fernando Reed, and she is part owner of the Daily Worker"/ — A. She is
one of the three old ladies who took over — The Freedom of the Press is the name
of the organization.
Q. Is that a corporation. The Freedom of the Press'? — A. Yes.
Q. And who are the other two? — A. Mrs. Woodruff, Susan Woodriilf (phonetic),
and a Mrs. or Miss — I don't know which — Pennypacker.
Q. Pennypacker'/ — A. Yes.
Q. Is your mother president of that corporation'/ — A. No: I think it is jointly
owned by those three.
Q. You don't think it is a coriioi-ation'/ — A. Well, isn't that a coriioration?
Q. No; joint ownership isn't necessarily a corjioration, it may be a partner-
ship.— A. I don't know the term. I know the three of them took it over, the
ownership, last summer.
Q. They bought it from the faction of the Third Internationale, known as the
Conununist Party of the United States'/ — A. T really don't know the transaction
that went on. I really don't.
Q. Are you an officer of The Freedom of the Press? — A. No ; not at all.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8653
Q. You live where? I forgot to put that down.— A. I live at 101 East Sixteenth
Street.
Q. And you live there witli your mother? — A. No; luy mother doesn't live
with me.
Q. Are you married? — A. Not now.
Q. Now' do you helieve in the "dictatorship of the proletariat," or do you
know what that means? — A. Well, I don't know if — I don't know if it is necessary
to discuss that at this point. I mean, to do so, it really needs my general philoso-
phy of life. It really comes into that.
Q. Well, I think it does for this reason, that after all you and I know that in
this world of ours nien do luviiuile themselves, and women too, with naiiie-calling,
tags, slogans. Now, I am not so nnich concerned with a tag or a slogan, because
very frankly I have been calbnl a dangerous radical by some people, and 1 have
been called a Fascist by some people, and I think that any person who Is honest
and outspoken about his views on certain matters will at one time or another get,
without deserving maybe, a tag or a name. Now, beyond the name and the tag
there is a reality, a belief, an advocacy that should really be the proper fcmnda-
tion for the name or tag and often isn't, and therefore. I am not interested so
much in whether you say. "No; 1 am not a Communist," or. "Yes; 1 am a Com-
munist," because even if you said. "Yes ; I am a Communist," I wouldn't be satis-
fied with rh:it. because that is a word that has been used ambiguously and vaguely
by very many people, and so for that reason I would like to go into some of the
questions th.-it to me reflect the reality rather than the mere names. You under-
stand my purpose? — A. Yes. Well, I think perhaps we ought to be clear, first,
that we mean the same thing about dictatorship.
Q. I appreciate that very much. You mean when we talk about the very name
"Conuuunist"?— A. No: "dictatorship of the proletariat," the first question you
asked me. because you might have (pute a different conception of it from what
I hiive. All I know really is that 1 believe in a much better world for all of us
to live in.
Q. Than th<' (me we are living in today? — A. Yes.
Q. Well. I think all of us can s;iy that.— A. It is not quite easy to agree to.
Q. If we didn't tliere wonld perhaps be something wrong with us; but to get
back to my (luestion, you find difficulty about understanding what I mean al50Ut
"dictatorsinp of the proletariat." You appreciate that in history of a current
logic, or history as we know it today, the words "'dictatorship of the proletariat"
have a technical significance in some circles, or do you appreciate that? — A. In
some circles ; yes.
Q. You and I have read about Connnunists ; we have read about the Soviets,
and so forth, and we know that they, par excellence, used the expression "dic-
ta torsliip of the proletariat." Maybe in other forms men like Kautsky used it.
but Kautsky would be reprobated by Stalin today hi the use, and those who
particip;ile in tlie Fourth Internationale, as distinguished from the Third Inter-
nationale, tlu-y. loo. ndght use the words "dictatorship of the proletaruit," but
I am now talking about the meaning of the words "dictatorship of the proletariat"
in the Third Internationale. Are you familiar with the meaning of those words
in the Third Inreriiationale":' — A. Not as excepted from any other. Perhaps I
have ;i very lay person's iiiterpi(>tatioii of it.
Q. Wliat is your inierpretation (.f the "dictatorship of the proletariat" as you
have read aliout it'.' — A. As a government wlierel\v the proletarian composition
of the i»opiilation does have control ov(^r the government.
Q. As exeniitlified in Soviet Russia today'.' — A. Yes; I would say so. I mean,
that at least is their objective.
Q. Well. iiuw. liave you anything else to add about your understanding of the
term "dict.-itorsliip of llie pi'oletariat'".' — A. No: but your question was whether
I believed in "(iiclalorship of the jiroletariat." Well, now. that might — lirstly,
we might have dilTerent conceptions of it, and, secondly, do you mean here or
do you mean llieie. or dn you mean for the world, or just as a general philosophy,
or whafr
Q. Well, as you know, tlie words "dictatorship (if the proletariat" as used, for
example, iiy Lenin and Stalin, had a primary significance for Soviet Russia, but
thro'igh the Third Int«'rnationale had a world-wide significance, too, so that we
can take botli. and we will Itegin witli the world-wide sijiiiificance. Do you
believe in tlie world-wide mission of the "dictatorship of the proletariat'":' — A. You
know, rbat's still ambiguous.
g(354 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. Well, I want you to be perfectly frank, ami tell me A. (Interrupting.)
The world-wide mission — mii-siou would involve a revolutionary approach to it,
doesn't it, from what you say?
Q. Well, I don't think that mission necessarily means or involves a revolu-
tionary approach. — A. Is this necessarily a discussion of what I would like to
see, my philosophy, or is it just to be of this union business?
Q. It would be a discussion of what you believe in your philosophy. You see,
I am asking it of you for the same reason that I asked your cooperation before,
because I have been asked to make this investigation, because of the rumors in
the papers, and so forth, and we are living in a particularly fevered time, as you
know. — A. Yes.
Q. And, there is public pressure to get this thing iroiu'd out. Now, it is to your
advantage as well as to mine that we go into it as thoroughly as possible, so- that
if there is no justillcatiou for some of these rtmiors, we can lay the rumors once
and for all. — A. You mean you nmst answer, fo-r instance, to what my philoso-
phies about the "dictatorship of the proletariat" are? I mean, is that really going
to come tip? I really think I would like to discuss it with you at length. I am
nc;t trying not to cooperate. Please don't misunderstand, but I think it is rather far-
fetched because it is — if you are going to be asked to give an answer to somebody
on just that point, then it perhaps is worth going into all this, but it is a big ques-
tion, and I would modify it, and I would — I would say that perhaps eventtially
there may be a happy ending, but I can't say for today, and I can t say that I am
for stirring up any revolutionary war all over the world to prodtice it, so I think
it has to be carefully analyzed befoi'e answering it. Don't you?
Q. 1 certainly do, and if you prefer that I ask yoti no tpiestions and that you
jtist give me extemporaneously, and without any interruptions from me, your owti
slant on these things, that's all right with me, but my purix)se in asking that detail
is prec-isely in order to go into it careftilly, as you suggested, becatise I don't think
myself that yc-ti can go into this question carefully and thoroughly unless you hit
all of those basic ideas which are right behind, nnd which are the reality behind
communism, dictatorship of the pr(jletariat, revolutionary class warfare, and so
on, yoti see? — A. Y'es ; but since I am not so well versed in this thing, not being a
meml>er, I don't have such a lot of po'litical information at my linger tips to go
into a long di.scussion with you about it.
Q. Well, if you don't know the answer. Miss Reed, yon just tell me. — A. I am
quite a lay person in this matter of wanting to have a better world than what we
have. As I said before, I feel that unions are a must, and I have always been
active, and
Q. (Interposing.) May I interrtipt. Miss Reed, before you go on? I don't want
you to give me an answer that yoti don't know. If I ask yo-u a question you don't
know, you just frankly tell me. (Jn the other hand. I don't want you to take it that
1 will believe or anybody has a right to- believe that sinqjly becatise someone is
informed about the general line of Soviet philosophy, for example, tliat therefore
they are Communists, because just taking my own case as another instance. I have
studied something of Soviet philoso-phy for some little time now, and I feel that I
am rather more informed about it than a lot of people, but that doesn't make of
me a Comnnmist. Do you see? — A. Yes.
Q. When I ask these questions about the ide(,-logical panoply of communism of
the world today, I am asking it simply in order that I might find out basically
from you in your own words whether there is anything to this rumor. No. 1 that
you are a Co-mmunist, No. 2 that will keeping you on the pay roll amount to a viola-
tion of the Devaney law. Now, we can start with that right at the beginning and
say. Do you believe in the overthrow of the Governmenr of this country I)y violent
means? — A. No.
Q. I»o you believe in the (yverthrow of the Government of this county by illegal
means? — A. No; I don't.
Q. Have you ever distributed literature that advocated the overthrow of this
Government by either violent or illegal means? — A. No: I haven't.
Q. Have you ever belonged to an organization that liad for one of its purposes,
at least, the use of violent or illegal means to obtain political objectives? — A. No;
I don't believe in it.
Q. Remember. I haven't put you under oath. — A. I know. This is the Devaney
law.
Q. Yes; that's right, and I haven't put you under oath for the very good reason
tliat I take it that you are going to tell me the truth without the nece.ssity of being
put under oath, at the moment, and I want this to be a free and untrammeled
investigation, and I don't want you to have any hesitancy about anythiTig you say,
and therefore I haven't attempted to put you under oath, and you have never
UN-AMEUK'AN PUOFAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8655
prliiU'd. published, edited any bodlc. paper, oi- docnmenr that advocated the attaiu-
nieiit of pelitieal objectives by violent or ilU>f;al means'? — A. No ; I haven't.
Q. Yon will luive to si)eak up, or ii won't be on the record. — A. I am sorry.
No ; I haven't.
Q. And you have never orjianized, or helped to organize, any society or group
of persons which desired or advocated the overthrow of this Covernment by violent
or Illegal means? — A. No.
Q. Do you know whether there are any romnuinists at the office in which you
work'."" — A. That I don't feel I should — I have no delinite knowledge. I have
never — I had people called "red." and pointed out to me, but I wouldn't vouch for
}.t because I have never had any proof.
Q. In other words, there have been eases when persons in your office have been
pointed out to you? — A. Jjabeled "red," just as I have been, but I wouldn't take
any stand, or vouch for it, because I have no proof of it.
Q. Has any fellow worker in the Division of Placement and Unemployment
Insurance ever admitted to you that he or she ever was a Communist'.' — A. No.
Q. At no time? — A. No; I can say so.
Q. Now, would you care to give the names of the persons who have been pointed
out to you as Connnunists, even though you have no particular reason for relying
upon that information '.■' — A. No; I don't think that's quite fair.
Q. In other words, you don't want to give that'? — A. No.
Q. Have you ever observed any conduct or listened to any conversation by
employees of the Division of Placement and Unemployment Insurance that would
give you the basis for susjiecting or believing that there were Communists in the
Division of Placement and Unemployment Insui-ance? — A. Well, as I say, I have
heard many people labeled as I have been, and I have tried to feel toward them as
I felt about this whole name-calling episode down there. I felt that sticks and
stones can break one's bones, so to speak. I don't like to indulge in it myself, -ind
I don't like to have it practiced on me.
Q. Well, tell me. Miss Reed, do you suspect there is any particular nefarious
reason or scheme behind the name calling that affects you? Have you reason to
su.spect tliat there is .some malicious thoughts, take these newspapers, for instance?
I would very much appreciate to have your views on that? — A. Oidy insofar as it
is an attempt to break the union we have fought so hard to build up. I think that
when this group was not given, in their estimation, enough of the floor, and enough
chance to express their minority opinion that they resorted to this low form of
"red hairing," even to the extent of going to newspapers which they knew in
advance would seriously affect the union's growth and ability to do its job, and
al.so hurt the administration, which was entirely uncalled for, and when Mr.
Rosenfeld came to me after the meeting and said he was sorry that my name had
appeared, that he had nothing to do with it, I answered him that if he was inter-
ested in building a union he would certainly not And this way of going to the
papers and getting one member exiwsed as a "red," because he knows what conse-
quences that can have.
It indicates to me just one thing, and that is that he is not genuinely interested
in helping this union grow, and I might say one thing here that sounds a little
boastful, perhaps, but I want it to go in the record. That part of the business —
part of the meeting that we had last week, just after this article had appeared was
given to business reports, and I am the chairman of the committee, the social
committee, and I stood up to make my report, took the floor, and suddenly a burst
of applause came from the union, without any instigation on my part or any of my
friends. I assure you it was simply an acknowledgment of the rank and tile
membership that what 1 had done for the union and meant to the union stood out
far and away above any name-calling. The executive board hasn't made any
attempt to dignify this sort of thing with an answer. We are going right along
doing our job. as I am in my own office as b(>st I know how, and disregarding this
.sort of name-culling, and that's all I think it deserves.
Q. You spoke of "this group." I think that was the phrase you used. Who are
the persons comprising "this group"? — A. The names are UUman Rosenfeld. He
is the editor of the group's paper. They call the paper "We Pay Dues, Too," and I
know four other names of that group. They, I think, 'wvre mentioned in one of
the papers. At least, they had all their names on the editorial board on this sheet.
I haven't got a sheet with me.
Q. Can you get us one'? — A. Yes: I think I can, surely.
Q. Is that the group'? — A. Yes. Those are the leaders of the group. I don't
know all of the names. I don't know who they are. I guess I got off the trail
there.
(■>L'()2(! — 41 — vol. 14 :!2
8-356 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. That's all right. Dirt you have anything else at the moment? — A. No.
i). A moment ago you said that yon were — you were asked, and I think in fact
th;it you I'efused to give tlie names of i:)eisons jiointed out to you as Communists.
Would yiiu give us the name of the person who pointed out these persons as Com-
munists?— A. Well, you see, it has been over some time, and perhaps it has been
many, not by one. There has been name-calling by one, and name-calling by
another. It hasn't been any one special person.
Q. Yoii mean there have been several persons that have pointed out other people
to you as Communists? — A. You know as I do that in an active grcmp in a union
there are always people bi'aiided as Connnunists, and if a rumor goes around that
so and so is, why I don't remember. I couldn't remember offhand to tell you who
had told me one thing and who had told me another, about the thing. It is just
generally conceded that there are Connnunists in the active leadership of imions,
becinise they are very h;ird workers for whatever they believe in, and they very
often are the most self-sacrilicing. and I have never known a union yet that hadn't
been called names. Beyond that, I can't say.
Q. In other words, you don't remember the names of any of the informants on
this point? — A. No.
Q. Well, now, have you reflected in this connection that if these rumors are
bandit'd about the persons who ai'e the sub.iect of those rnmoi's are exposed to a
kind of martyrdom that they don't deserve if they are not Communists, and that
therefore if we conduct a real investigation we might be able to put an end to
that rumor mongerlngV — A. I don't think you ever will, because of just such
people that find this "red-baiting" as the most effective and the most dramatic way
to get recognition of their points of view. I have seen it happen .mi many tin:es, I
really don't have any interest in it. The sooner "red-baiting" wears itself out
and we get down to business, the better off I feel, and I am sure tlie union feels
the same way about it.
Q. Precisely. I feel myself tliat unwarranted rumors should subside and
should be made to .^^ettle as quickl.v as possible, and .iust becau.se of it. I feel
that you would be doing those perscms a service if you gave us those names so
that we could settle the question one way or the other, because it is not "red
baiting" if these people are veritable Ccmununists. It is "red baiting". if they
are not. One way or the other, we ought to kn.ow the truth so that when these
rumors are bandied abou.t in the newspapei's (»r given to us b.v word of mouth,
we can give a very definite answer. We can say to the person who pulilishes these
things or to the persons that write us letters — after all, you know we are
presumabl.v going to receive a letter from somebody, and we haven't received
it yet, although the papers have carried an account of it yesterday. Now, I feel,
briefly, that I would be in a very strong position if when somebody made
charges I could say first of all, "Don.'t be vague and general. (live us the names",
and then if they gave us the names of these jiersons to whom labels had been
improperly attached, we could say, "Sorry: we investigated that and found it is
not true." Or, if we found it is true, then we have certain duties mider the law.
Now, don't you think from that angle you would be doing yourself, the other
people, and us all a good turn by giving us those names? — A. Mr. Schmidt, you
said yourself that you had also been branded as a dangerous radical. How,
may I ask, did you liandle that? Did yon .give it the dignity of an answer, or
did you simply ignore it and go ahead about your work?
Q. On one occasion, when I couldn't find out who it was that gave me the
title, I didn't acknowledge it. On another, I did. In fact, on two occasions I
did acknowledge it. I went right to the person. — A. Well, I have gone to Mr.
Rosenfeld, who is responsible tor this information being put into the papers,
and I told him what T think, and 1 would lots ratlier let it go at that.
Q. Well, I don't want to bring you in it. naturally, in the future, and I won't
disclose the fact that you gave the information, if that's what you are worrying
about, but I .iust want to be in a position — —A. (Interrupting.) I positively
couldn't tell who. I know in a general way that there are rumors that go
around in aii.v iniion that so-and-so nnist — because they believe in peace — that
so-and-so must be a member of the Conununist Party, l)ecause the Communist
Party believes in ]ieace, and that sort of talk is so loose that I don't believe in
listening to it, and I try to go right about my business. Now, you try and re-
memlser who said that about so-and-so — I am not prepared to say.
Q. In other words, .vou are unable to remember the names of the persons that
were pointed out to you as possibly being a Connnunisr : is that it? — A. Yes.
Q. Now. let's get back to the Comimuiist ideology, if you iilea.^e. You have
referred to class warfare? — A. Yes.
UX-AMKKKWN I'UOl'A*; \NI»A ACTIVITIES 8G57
Q. You ujult'i-stiiml the ti'ihnical signiiicanoe of ihosc words in more or less
romnuiiiist circles V — A. Well, I cau interiiret it by my own
Q. Well, can you tell me what yon uiuierstancl by it, if you don't mind? — A.
There are two classes of people in the class struggle.
Q. In ofhi'v words, do yon bt'li(>ve that tlu-re is a class strtigsln today? — A. Yes;
I think that's quite acccptalde.
Q. And yon think that there are two antagonists in rhai class struggle? — A.
You mean all over the world?
Q. Well, I don't care where. — A. Or do yon mean some place special?
Q. All over tlie world, we will ])nt if.' — A. I would .say all over the world.
Q. And. that wouM mean in America, too'.' — A. Yes.
Q. Now. would you i<ientify the antagonists a;; the prclelarians, on tlie one
hand, and the capitalists, on the other? — A. Not wholesale; no.
Q. Not wholesale? Well, how would you identify the antagonists of this
world-wide class struggle tl'.at you speak of? — A. I would say that those who
are interested in some form of socialism where the wealtii of tiie — the pro-
duction, the means of production, are owned by people wh.o make the things, and
then the other people who do not want to have it distributed, but who prefer
to make profit from them. That is as simple as A B C.
Q. Do you believe in the institution of private property? — A. Oh, my good-
ne.-s ; this is
Q. Well, I asked you to be pationt willi me. because I told yon before that
I think the only right way to go abmit it is to go about it thoroughly, and I
think you see the logic of' that yourself. Do you believe in the institution of
private property? — A. Today or
C. (Interi-upting. » To(iay'? — A. You see I heslt:^ite because perliaps I haven't
thought these answers (mt sufficiently and intelligently, and if 1 say something
I would hate to .see it in print that i would regret afterward, because it really
might not be exactly what I meant to say.
Q. Well, you can iiualify what you s;iy in any way you see fit. — A. Private
jiroperty is one person owning something — iust v.-hat do you mean, really?
Q. Well, there are two kinds r.f property basically, aren't there? There is
capital jiroperty and consumers' property. I m.ean, the property like butter
and clothes that are consumed in th" use; and capital property, which is the
property that is m<)re permanent. It is used in the making, usually, of con-
sumers' articles. Now. I want to know, do you believe that there is a place
for the right of private ownershi>)'i' — A. Yes.
Q. Do you believe that the Goveriunent should control all of the means of
production or should own all of the means of production? — A. \^'ell, I think
it woidd be worth trying. I mean — I am not a Marxist. I don't know if
that's what you are getting at, to get me to '"omniii myself to ;i philosophy
that I am not jtrepared t(».
(}. No; I don't want you to commit yourself to anything except the truth.
Miss Reed. I am just asking questions tliat in my opinion go beyond tags. —
A. But there are some very, very deep questions tl'.at can have ,i g;;od deal
of discussion (me w:iy or another.
Q. That's right. Now, maybe it might be tliat yovi haven't ever discussed
th«>m or talked about them. If you haven't, and you "lon't have any opinion
on them one way or another, .say so. — A. I had better say that it is over my
depth on that one.
Q. I suppose you have heard that in the Communist scheme of things the
state is the instrument of tlie exploiter.s. Do you believe that's so today?
Have you ever lieard of that? — A. No.
Q. Have you evei- heard of the doctrine of the wasting away of the state".' —
A. Yes; I have heard that expression.
Q. Do you know wiiat it means? — A. Only what I can imagine what it
would mean.
Q. Well, what do you imagine il would mean? — A. That is where the state
set-up will eveinually he — well, it won't be called a state; it would be called
something else: that is. it would he a .system of .v-ociety that won't have a
state set-up. It would be more of a communal set-up. I am not very good at
this.
Q. That's all right. I don't know whether you answered the question I
first asked, about the "dictatorship of the proletariat" — if it is the best poli-
tical and economic and social arrangement for the attainmi-nt of the classless
state? — A. 1 don't know about that, Mr. Srhmidt ; I don't believe in any die.
tatorship.
8558 UN-.'UIEKICAN PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. You have heard of the classless state of Karl Marx, for example? — A. Well,
I have heard of it, and it all .seemed pretty nehnlous to me.
Q. You have heard of the Thinl Inlernatioual, I believe V — A. Yes.
Q. You know what the Third International isV — A. I know it is not the fourth,
and I know it is not the second, and I don't know where it conies in.
Q. Well, did you know that the Communist Party in the United States was at
least once a section of the Third International? — A. Yes; I think I can tie it up
as part of it — yes ; I would say so.
Q. And, as a matter of fact, the Daily Worker of some years ago used to carry
in its masthead the legend to the effect that •'I'ublishcd by the Communist Party
of the United States, a section of the Third International." Isn't that so? — A.
I don't remember.
Q. Well, is the Daily Worker published by Communists today? — A. When you
say "published,'' do you mean written — do you have to be a member to be on the
staff, do you mean?
Q. No. I mean, so far as the ownership of that publishing outlet is concerned, is
that Communist? — A. I haven't any idea of the constituency of the persons run-
ning it. I know only that they would be apt to be, scnne of them. I dou't know
who they are.
Q. Well, is your mother a member of the Comnnuiist Party? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever read the Daily Worker? — A. Yes; I did.
Q. Wouldn't you say that most of the writers in it are members fif the Com-
munist I'arty? — A. I would say it is the mouthpiece and the paper of those of
Conununist leanings, but I have no official knowledge of how it is worked, and
that part is my mother's business. I don't really know the technical end at all.
Q. Plave you ever read the monthly called the Communist? — A. I know there
is such a thing, but I don't remember reading it.
Q. Have you ever read the quarterly called the Third International? — A. No;
I haven't.
Q. Have you seen it? — A. I don't remember ever seeing it. A quarterly?
Q. Yes. Published in several different languages by the Comintern? — A. I
may have seen it, but I don't remember it.
Q. Have you read some or all of the bonks in the Little Lenin Library? — A.
No ; I have not.
Q. Would you be willing to sign a statement repudiating comnumism?- — A. Re-
pudiating communism? For who. for what? I mean, when you
Q. (Interrupting.) For me? — A. You see that I am not very well informed
You mean as a theory, as a basis?
Q. As a basis for political and social action? — A. Well, 1 don't think I know
enough to say that, Mr. Schmidt. I mean, because my mother is suddenly a
1-year-old. and goes off on a tangent as she has, and undertakes to do a job, and
offhand I am not as well informed about those things nearly as she is, and
Q. (Interrupting.) Do you believe in the political genei'al strike? You know
what a general strike is? — A. Yes; I have heard of it. We have had some.
Q. What's that? — A. They have had some in certain sections of the country.
Q. You don't know what the political genei'al strike is? — A. No ; I don't know
that term.
Q. Do you advocate for political and social action the use of revolutionary
mass movements? — A. I will have to say that I don't know on that one.
Q. Well, you mean you don't know what I mean? — A. You are using a good
many terms that are prett.y — sound like as if they had a lot of meaning to them,
and I am not prepared to understand offhand what those terms mean.
Q. AVell, they do have a pretty settled meaning in some circles. — A. Well, I
don't feel that I can answer that, when I don't understand all the significance of
an answer.
Q. Well, now, you feel that you would hesitate about signing a statement re-
pudiating communism because you don't know enotigh about communism to
repudiate it; is that it? — A. Yes.
Q. Well, suppose instead of asking you to repudiate communism as a tag, I
set down on a piece of paper certain of the basic dogmas of communism and ask
.von to repudiate them. Would you sign that kind of a statement? — A. It depends
on what they are, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. That's right, but I said the dogmas of communism? — A. Well, when I see
what the.v are, I will know whether I would sign such a thing, but I don't know
again what your purpose is. Is it to be able to answer the press by saying tliat
I have been uji to this office and made a flat statement, and then you will feel
that everything is all right? Is that the purpose of this?
rx-A.MEuu'AN i'kofa(;am)a activities 8659
Q Wi-11, luiw. wo are not so tiaiiu'lUd h.v llu' i)ross tliat we fei'l we owe them
a duty to divulge to thmn what you are vsayinji;. We feel that we have a certain
responsihility of section J2-A of tlie civil-service law. — A. Yes.
Q. (hue we have satisfied ourselves that we have (iischarjied that duty properly,
then it doesn't matter particularly to us what rumors lloat about, so long as they
don't spoil puhlic relations or corrupt personnel morale. — A. Riuht.
Q. And, wherever we think it is necessary to use any information you give us
to prtwcnt the deterioration of the puhlic relations or of intei'nal morale. yo\i
can undersrand we would feel free to use it. Now. does that answer your ques-
ti<ni to me? — A. Yes: I wondered if you have felt any repercussiou from this inci-
dent that you felt would interfere with your public relations or any internal
)Morale'r
Q. Well, you are what, an employment investigator?
Mr. Ma.sqn. Senior employment investigator.
Q. You have some knowledge of the actualities of today's conditions from the
I)lacement angle? — A. Yes.
Q. Now, I ask you as a senior employment investigator, do you think it helps
relations or hurts them, these newspaper articles? — A. It is not good, Mr,
Schmidt.
Q. You indicated it before when you .said before that you thought the under-
lying motive was to damage the administration? — A. No; I said to Mr. Rosen-
feld that this might hurt the administration.
Q. Oh, I am sorry. — A. And. I didn't indicate that that was his motive, but T
felt it was his motive to damage the union, but^ — I have forgotten what I was
going to say.
Q. Do you approve of the dominant economic system called finance capitalism
or the capitalistic system? — A. The capitalistic system, as I understand it, has
outlived itself, and certainly the world is calling for something better than that,
Q. Well, do ycu think that the only way of getting rid of it, or one of the
available ways of getting rid of the capitalist system is direct struggle or the
general strike, or class warfare?— A. It lias been proposed, but I don't agree with
any form of force and violence, if that's what .vou mean. Is it?
Q. Yes. If you have any doubt about the meaning of any question. I will
rephrase it in another way. — A. Yes. Wouhl you say it again.
Q. Surely. Did y<Hi ever hear of the expre.ssion "dialectic materialism"? —
A. Yes; I have heard of it.
Q. You know what it means? — A, No ; I never did find out.
Mr. Mason. You are not a stranger to dialectics, however, I take it?
Miss Rekd. You are better than I am, because I don't know what it means.
Q. Well, for your information, and in order thiit you might understand future
questi<ms, I will tell you that in the general line of Communist philosophy, the
ba.sic concept was a materialist conception, let's say an evolutionary materialist
conception, a conception that denied spiritual functions, the primacy of the
si>ii-itual, and a conception of history based somewhat on Hegel, who held that
history unfolds itself according to certain patterns. There was a time when the
highest development of that evolutionism was feudalism. Then, there might have
come capitalism that we know today, and in the future the "dictatorship of the
proletariat," and the termination, the end. the goal of that ceaseless development
of history was called the classless state. Now, these Communist theoreticians
held that nothing men could do would interfere with that process. We lived in
a deterministic world, a world that was not influenced basically by free will, but
we were swept forward on the surge of history. They qualified that at least to
this extent, by saying that there was a dialectic that could be used to speed up
that evolutionary process, and that dialectic they held was class warfare, so
that everything that ministered to the bad feelings of the two antagonistic classes
was helpful in the long run for revolutionary impacts, was helpful in the long
i-un because they simply sped the day of the coming first of the "dictatorship of
the proletariat," and iiltimately of the classless society. Now, that is a rough
and ready approximation that I suppose some Communist theoreticians might find
fault with. — A. I am glad to have you explain it.
Q. I wondered now whether you believ(>d in the usefulness of the class
struggle to speed the day of ascent of a better political and social system? —
A. That would assume that I really knew what- I was talking about, and had
thought out what you have explained beforehand, and I haven't,
Q. Therefore, you have no intelligent opinion on it? — A. I have no intel-
ligent opinion on it.
8560 UN-AMERICAN PKOl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. Have you any knowledge of what is the hasic oriterion of Commimist
ethics? — A. No.
Q. I know in some Communist circles that would seem ignorant, to use that
phraseology, but I use it advisedly, because away back in the early lG20"s,
Letiin. in addressinji' a group, a^sfMied that there was a deliiiite Communist
ethic. ;ind that it consisted of this, that everything wnich advanced, or helped,
or favored, or facilitated th^ "dictatorship of the proletariat'' was good, and
everyrhing that hindered, delayed, or hurt the prospects of that dictatorship
was bad. Would you agree with that as a standard of what is good and what
is bad? — A. Offhand, no: but I really am faced with a lot of cpiestions that
you assume I know a lot about, and I can't answer th'nu intelligently, Mr.
Schmidt.
ij. What (piestions. for example? — A. Well, I mean as far as it .sounds likt'
a very deep question, and it Involves a lot of thinking, and I haven't done it,
and I don't know how to answer it. You can't answer those things offhand.
I go back to my first statement about thinking that this situation we are in
today is not good, and could be better, and I am doing my job as well as I
know how, and have always loved mj" job, and consider myself as having done
a good job on it, because I believe in the State employment service and working
in my union that I think is a necessary job to be done through the workers
that are members of the union, and I haven't gone into these things that you
bri)ig out in these deeper questions, ami J — if I answered them yes or nov
I would tiierehy be telling you that I really knew what I was talking about,
if 1 answered them, and I dfiu't.
Q. Well, do you believe that one of the advisable methods for social better-
ment in the future for the attainment of a better world that you spoke of
befoi-e would be ;in intensification of the revolutionary crises in various couu-
ti'ies, in our own particularly? — A. No; I wouldn't say ott'hand. That implies
that 1 want revolutioji in various countries, and think that that's going to solve
things? No; I would say no.
Q. Are there any conditions under which you would advocate revolutionary
action in the sense of unlawful and violent action? — A. No; I say again that
I do not stand for vicjlence or illegal means.
Q. Why'/ — A. Because I don't believe that that is the way of handling any
situation. I don't believe in lighting when you get mad. If you can't use
your head and discuss the thing out, well then, you had better not get into it.
Q. Do you believe that it is advisable to develop in the proletarian a class
consciousness".' — A. T think the workers should know their rights and b«^ aware
of them, surely, if that's what you mean.
i}. No; I don't mean that exactly. By class consciousness I mean a sense of
solidarity against a common enemy which is the antagonist class, which is
variously known as bourgeoisie, or capitalist, or exploiters? — A. Well, I believe
in unions, and unions are an example of solidarity for getting their workers
rights, and I believe in that ; yes.
Q. Well, do you believe that an enmity should exist between the unions or
any proletarian group and the antagonist class? — A. I don't think enmity does
any good anywhere.
Q. I suppose you would concede that Stalin and Lenin are Communists? —
A. Lenin was, I guess.
Q. That's a correction that I deserved. Lenin was a Communist, and
Stalin is?— A. Yes.
Q. Well, here is a statement that Lenin made about the "dictatorship of the
proletariat." I quote : "The 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is the most deter-
mined and most ruthless war waged by the new class against the more powerful
enemy, against the bourgeoisie." Then, he says, again I quote : "The 'dictatorship
of the proletariat' is a persistent struggle, sanguinary and bloodless, violent and
passive, military and economic, educational and administrative, against the
forces and traditions of the old society." Would you agree with that statement
or repudiate it? — A. I can't absorb a thing as deep as that and say yes or no to
it right away.
Q. Shall I read it again? — A. No: I think that I might agree with some of it,
and not all of it. I can't say yes or no. I really don't think it is quite fair to
ask me a "yes" or "no" answer on a thing like that. I mean, all of it assumes
a great deal of reading and philosophical study on this matter.
Q. Well, I don't know whether that is altogether so. I am picking out state-
ments that T tlioughr were pretty elementary, so that when a person heard them he
would understand their significance. May I quote another one to you? This
UN-AMERICAN PKOrAGANDA ACll\ HIES 8661
liiiiL' i (luutr troiu KStuliu in liis bookirt eallcd ■TnuiMlalions of Leninism."' "To
luit it briefly, the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is the domination of the
proletariat over the boiujieoisie untrammelled by law and based on violence and
enjnyinji the sympathy and support of the toiling and exiiloited masses." I will
read" it once moro so that you can thinlv about it. — A. May 1 ask what answer
you would expect for that, whether I agree to itV
Q. Yes; that's right, or whether you would repudiate it. I will read it once
more to you. "The 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is the domination of the
proletariat over the bimrgeoisie untrammelled by law and based on violence and
enjoying the sympathy and support of the toiling and exploited masses." Now,
my question in relation to that is. if that is the definition of "dictatorship of the
proletariat" V — A. Does it inchide statements on force and violence?
Q. It says, "domination of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie untrammelled
by law and based on violence and enjoying the sympathy and support of the
lulling masses."— A. Well, that's not my conception of what the "dictatorship of
the priileiariat" is.
<}. AVeil. in other words, you would not agree with thatV — A. It doesn't seem
to coincide with my ideas of force and violence. If there is anything that I
don't — offhand I wouldn't say that I agree with it; no.
Q. Well, if you don't agree with it, are you just neutral about it, or do you
repudiate if.' In otlier words, I want to tiud out are you passive about it, or do
you actively repudiate it V — A. As I understand it now, I would repudiate it, if
that's what you call it : but it is because these things are meaty, and they might
have a wealth of meaning there that I don't get at first, and I might agree with
some of it or not all of it. As it stands now, I wouldn't agree with it. That's not
my interprotation of what I have ever heard of the "dictatorship of the
proletariat."
Q. Where have you heard about the dictatorship A. [Interrupting.] Mr.
Schmidt, I feel that I am blocking you, and I don t want to, but you are asking
nui a great many deep, deep questions on theory that I cannot answer, and
since I caiuiot answer, and since I cannot answer them, you ask me, am I
passive or do I repudiate them? Now, I don't do either. I am not informed.
I don't want to answer a question as deep as that. Tlnit is worth a lot of
study. I imagine, and I have not done it.
Q. Weil, now look; remember before wlien I aslied about repudiating com-
munism as a tag. that I would be glad to get some of the dogmas of communism
and ask you to repudiate them. Now. obviously. I meant I would get them
together on a written paper, and I would assume that St:>.lin and Ivnin knew
what communism was, just as well as I assume tliat tiie Pope kuiw what
catJiolicism was, and on the basis of what they say comuuinism is, 1 would
ask you to sign a statement repudiating communism as ro^presented by the
dogmas that I will have quoted to yoii. You can take those dogmas and con-
sider them very carefully and study them, if you .say they are very meaty, and
distil! from them whatever is right in your opinion, and wrong, and you can
qualify your answer as you deem proper. Now, that might lie one Way of
doing it. — A. It would have to be the only way, because I think it is quite a
stiff lest to put me to.
Q. Tliis is not an examination pap«'r in political economy, or anything likn
that. — A. It sounds lil<e an oral one.
Q. It is not an oral examiuatiou for tlie very reason tiiat you are not being
rated, for one thing, and for the other thing, I told yini all you would have
to say is "No," and I wouldn't press it. — A. Well, may I say "no" to that, then*:'
Q. All right, whatever you want. However, you said that this iext thai 1
read from the P'oundatiiai of Lemnisni and which is nothing but n paraphriising
of a text found in Lenin's work The Stiit(> and Revolution, did not ac<-ord with
your understanding of the "dictatorship of the proletariat," is that right? —
A. Yes.
Q. Now, what is your understanding of the "dicta torshii) of the proletariat"
and where did yon get that understanding? Tliat's two (piestions. — A. YVs :
that's two. \\'ell. I think it is rather a cbildisb picture I'eally. The word
"dictatorship" means control, neces.sarily, and control by the proletarians, b.v the
jiroletarian people in the Cfminuinity. Now, if tliey control everything, then
they ai'e their own employers and bosses, and then there is no class that can
exploit them, and can operate against them, and all peo])le who work shall
share, and the whole thing ouglit to be a lovely little pattern of pcoi)le getting
what they deserve in this world. I think that that's a good, thing to have
because I think that there are such evils created b.v people exploiting other
86J52 UN-AMERTCAN I'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
people aud working against them, aud tlie things that are exposed all the time
as happening, it is because there is an under dog that is being trodden and
downtrodden, and that sort of thing would be over. I would like to see a
world where that is all over. Now, that's very simple and childlike, and I feel
that there are three — I used to think of three sides to a triangle that I feel
should be, and they are better health in the world, and I feel there should be
free education, and I feel there should be a chance to work at whatever they
wanted to work at. I thought that would be the principles of a millennium.
Q. Of course, it wouldn't be a millennium unless we know what was the
content of that education. Isn't that significant there? For example, if you
had a lot of Nazi propaganda as the content of that education, you wouldn't
consider we had reached the niilUenium, would you? — A. At least, I think all
education should be free. I wouldn't go into it any further than that.
Q. "Well, suppose the education consisted of an explanation of the "dictator-
ship of the proletariat" by Marx and Lenin and Stalin, would you consider
that as the millenivun? — A. Well, that's assuming that I know what their
interpretation is, and I have not studied it and I don't know.
Q. I see — A. I mean, that is my childhood picture and it is what I have
been working toward and when I couldn't be a nurse as I wanted to, and didn't
want to be a teacher, I chose employment work, and I have been in it ever
since.
Q. Well, to get to the second question that was included in my compound
question before, what is the source of your knowledge of the "dictatorship of
the proletariat"? — A. Well, as you know, my mother is part owner of the Daily
Woiker, so that I have seen that paper, and, as it states in here, I went to the
Soviet Union uiyself and I have visited there and visited mv sister, and I have
thought a good deal about it as an experiment that I think is very, very fine,
the things that I have seen done. My mother has traveled there and told me
many things, and I have read some of the literature, the radical literature.
Q. Well, what have you read in the field? — A. I have read the Daily Worker.
Q. The New Masses'? — A. Sometimes I see that.
Q. Any books on the subject? — A. I have read autobiographies. I haven't
read Lenin's works, though.
Q. What autobiographies? — A. W>11. I read Foster's hook on his life. I have
forgotten the name of it. I am not a very well read person, actually.
Q. Did you read Lyons' book"? — A. Eugene Lyons' book? No: I didn't read
that.
Q. Did you read any of the b.isic Communist documents, like Kapitov
[phonetic] ? — A. No.
Q. Or Legotha's Statement [phonetic]? — ^A. No.
Q. Strachey? — A. I think I remember one ijamphlet or something of his.
Q. Howard Lasky? — A. No; I haven't read his articles.
Q. You don't remember any books devoted to communism tiiat you have read
which might be the source of your concept of the "dictator.ship of the prole-
tariat"?— A. I think it is because I have been around among people vrho were
interested in the labor movement and left-wing things for a long time ; and if I
see my mother, when I do see her
Q. (Interrupting.) Would you consider yourself a left-winger, if that has any
connection? — A. I presume being in the C. I. O. is so labeled a left-winger,
hut I don't know what I wijuld call myself. I know what I am but I don't think
it is the label — I don't like the label myself, because everybody has so many
interpretations of labels. I am a strong union person and always have been.
I believe in unions.
Q. You have kept informed about the experiment in Russia, as you called
it?— A. Yes.
Q. You know something about its constitution and its government, do you? —
A. I did read its constitution once ; yes.
Q. Would you agree with the principles of the constitution of the Soviet
Union? — A. I remember particularly that it gives everybody the right to work,
and mv whole angle being on that slant, I was interested in that particularly.
Q. Well, was that actually being carried out according to your observation
of Russia in your visits there ".•' — Yes. I tried to find an employment oftice to
see if there was a problem in employment, and if there was one, and I was
allowed to visit as a tourist, and it didn't seem to be a problem of employ-
ment, it was a problem of finding the workers and not the v/orkers finding
the jobs.
Q. Would you consider Soviet Russia, according to the pattern that you
studied, a democracy? — A. In what sense of the word?
UN-AMKKICAN I la H'ACA.NDA ArTi\ ITIKS 8663
Q. It isn't ;i (Iriiuu-racv in i»nr si'nst" of tli** word, hccinisc it is not ;i capitalist
deiuocrac.v, is ilV— A. No; but tlion you liavc to intcrpnM what you moan by
(h'niocracv. It isn't our type of (U-uiocracy hvn\
Q. Hut'you <lo consider it a (Icniocracy. and not a dictatorship? — A. As far
as I could SCO it is ; yes. . „ .
Q. So that you would say that Stalin is not a dictator even if Hitler is?— A.
Yes; I would say that.
Q. Why do you say that? — A. Well, I know that tlie elections are very— the
basis for election is from the very smallest unit in a factory-
Q. That's a cell, isn't if?— A. No.
Q. The smallest nnil?— A. No. When 1 say that. I mean the smallest jjroup
of workers in any factory, and it goes up and up to a supreme court that
is tiie basis of their government. So. 1 think that's very democratic.
Q. In other wiu-ds. yon think that Stalin's government and the Supreme
r'rt'sidiuni in Russia is responsible to the people? — A. I would say so.
Q. And that the people of (Jermany do not enjoy that responsiveness in
Hit'ler? You see. 1 am asking you how you distinguish Hitler from Stalin? — A.
Well, you see. I don't know the (ierman situation and I don't know how — my
interpretation of what Hitler does is very, very different from that, because
I don't think the set-up is like that, from the shops and factories.
Q. You think it was any response to public opinion there that Stalin permitted
Ids soldiers to g(>bble up Finland, or Kstonia, or Lithuania, or part of Poland? —
A. I don't know. Mr. Schmidt.
Q. What is that? — A. I don't kn(nv that.
Q. When you say you don't know, you mean you don't know enough about
the facts to say whether or not Stalin w^as justified in taking A. (Interrupt-
ing.) Well. I don't know what measures he took. You are asking a military
question. I haven't any idea.
Q. Well, did you disapprove of his conduct in resorting to military measures
to take over part of Finland, for example? — A. I don't think I can answer that.
I mean, whether I approve of what he did or not is beyond me. I wouldn't
presume to — he must have had some reason that I have never
Q. Well, would you presume to disapprove of Hitler's action invading Hol-
land?— A. I hate war. I hate war of any kind, and I wouldn't approve. I
don't know anything about militai'y tac-tics, and I don't know this whole
game of checkerboard, aiul killing each other off and fighting each other. It
is horrible to me. I don't presume to approve one's military step.
Q. r>ut the killing and the horror of struggle is just as near and actual where
the fight is between the Finns and the Soviets as it is between any other groups
of combatants'/ — A. Well, I don't know. I don't take any brief for Hitler or war
in any capacity. I am not sticking uj) for one bit of military strategy against
another.
• Q. So that you hate war even when the warrior is StJilin"? — A. That assumes
that I think the warrior is Stalin. I don't know. I hate war.
Q. Here is a statement I would like to read to you from one of the Communist
texts, "Democracy under the capitalist system is capitalist democracy, the democ-
racy of an exploiting min<n-ity based on the restriction of the rights of the ex-
ploited majority, and directed against this majority." l>o you believe that that
is a correct statement of democracy in this connti'yV Shall I read it again'.' — A.
Would you mind, please?
Q. 'Democracy under the capitalist system is capitalist democracy, the democ-
racy of an exploiting minority based on the restriction of the rights of the ex-
ploited majoi-ity. and directed against this majority." — A. Exploited m;ijority?
Q. That's right, and it goes on. I will read further. "Only luider the 'd'cta-
torship of the proletariat' is real freedom for the exploited and real participation
in the administration of the country by the proletai'ians and pea.sants possible.
Under the 'dictatorship of the proletariat", democracy is proletarian democracy,
the democracy of the exploited majority based uiion the restriction of the rights
of the exploiting minority, and directed against this minority." You see, that
juxtaposes two democracies, one called capitalist democracy, and the other called
proletarian democracy, and it obviously st>ts forth the proletarian democracy as
the desirable and preferable kind. Is that your opinion, or do you have a third
alternative in between these two? Would you like to see the thing in front of
you? — A. I can see that I will have to study it to know all the implications.
Q. It is marked right here. [Handing book to witness.]— A. | Witness examines
book.]
(Discussion off the record.)
3Q54 UN-AJVIERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
By Mr. Hanson :
Q. Miss Reed, did you ever make a contribution of any kind to the Communist
Party?— A. Well, I-^
Q. Money contributions? — A. Not under any name. If I put in some money iu
a collection, it is the most I ever did.
Q. Well, have you put money in collection plates? — A. Well, for many causes!
Q. Where? — A. I think at Madison Square Garden.
Q. When they were having a Conuniuiist rally? — A. Mass meetings of different
kinds I have put in the plate.
Q. But, I am speaking of contributions to the Communist Party? — A. No.
Q. Have you ever made a contribution that yoti knew would find its way to the
Conununist Party? — A. Well, if that part of the contribution went to the Com-
munist Party
Q. Well, you speak of a rally at Madison Square Garden, what kind of a rally
was it, who fostered it? — A. A. P. M. I went to one under the auspices of the
American Peace Mobilization. I am trying to think of more. The last one I went
to was the transportation workers. I have nt)t put in any money that was ear-
marked for the Comnuinist Party; no.
Mr. Schmidt. Have you ever signed a petition for the Communist Party?
Miss Reed. No : I have been very careful not to do so.
Q. Now, did you ever take part in a rally, or a meeting, or a gathering where
Communists predominated, known to yott to have predominated? — A. I have
sometimes gone to Madison Sqtiare Garden to meetings called for various big
rallies. I haven't done it very much. I have done it occasionally.
Q. What are those variotts things that you would go to? — A. I think the Soviet
Union recognition. Now that was a long time ago, bttt such big public mass rallies,
I have attended, sometimes.
Q. And, they were mostly of (•ommunistie tendencies, let's say? — A. As far as
the content of the public there, you mean, of the audience?
Q. Either that or fostered by members of the Communist Party? — A. That
may have been. That may have been. I have been to big rallies at Madison
Square Garden of a general nature.
Q. Didn't you say vou lived down on Twenty-sixth Street? — A. No; On
Si.xteenth Street.
Q. Sixteenth Street?— A. That's right.
Q. Did you ever have known Communists visit you down there at small
meetings? — A. Well, through my mother's work; I know she has friends among
them, and she has invited them to our hotise.
Q. But your mother doesn't live there? — A. Not now, but she has been living
there at times. When she took over the paper she stayed with me for a
short time.
Q. I see, and those men were there at whose invitation, yours or your
mother's? — A. My mother's.
Q. Never at yotirs? — A. I would say not.
Q. Did yott ever entertain iu yottr residence down there, some of the "left
wing" members of the Maritime Union? — A. Left wing members of the Maritime
Union?
Q. Well, let's say known Communists iu the Maritime Union. Did you
ever entertain them down there at your residence? I mean, at small meet-
ings?— ^A. Well, I know members of the Maritime Union, of the National Mari-
time Union.
Q. Do you know them to be Communists? — A. I know them to be left wingers,
strong tinion men.
Q. Do you know them to be Communists? — A. I have never heard proof
that they were. I have heard them called, but as I have been called.
Q. Did you ever satisfy yourself in your own mind as to whether or not
they wereCommunists. or didn't it make any difference to yott? — A. It didn't
make any differencci.
Q. You would .lust as soon entertain Communists in your home as you
would union members? — A. Yes.
Q. I can understand your activities iu coiniection with the union that you are
a member of, but what were your activities in connection with the Maritime
Union? — A. My activities in connection with thenfi?
Q. Yes. — A. Well, that's a bit personal. I was very much in love with some-
body in the Maritime Union.
Q. Is that the reason meetings were held at your home for the Maritime
Union members? — A. Well, I know that sometimes they ask me if they could
go there.
UN-AMERICAN T'UOrACANDA ACTIVITIES 8665
Q. Ami. do yon participate in these meetings?— A. No; not at all. It was
always when I was away.
Q. Always when yon were away? — A. Yes.
Mr. Schmidt. I have no fnrther qnestions today, because I think yon have
had enough questions for the time being.
Mr. H.\NSON. Well, these are not quite as di-ep as yours. These do not
require as much thought. I thought it would be refreshing.
Miss liKEi). l>iil yon learn something too?
Mr. Ma.nson. I ielt as if I had taken a postgradnate course.
Q Coming back to the question Mr. Schmidt asked about some of your co-
workers down there, it was clear that you didn't want to give the names of those
that had been branded, but without telling me the names of those persons, can't
you tell me the names of those among your coworkers that you definitely know
that are Conunuuists?— A. Not in my office. I have no proof of anyone in my
organization.
Mr. ScHMiuT. Will you just keep your voice up a little, because we have some
competition.
Miss Reeu. Yes.
Mr. ScHMU)T. Thank yon.
Mr. Hanson. All right, that's all I wanted to ask.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, thank yon very much. Miss Reed, and I know that it is
kind of putting you at a disadvantage and on the spot to have you come here
without forewarning and ask you a lot of questions that you perhaps didn't
anticipate were going to be asked, but you appreciate that my job is to get at the
facts, and you have nothing whatever to worry about if I get the facts.
State of New Yohk, Department of Labor. Investigatory Hearing of the
Industrial Commissioner
Nancy Reed, witness.
Hearing held at 8(1 Centre Street, New York City, June 23, 1941, before Godfrey
P. Schmidt. Deputy Industrial Commissioner.
Witnesses: Thomas R. Owens, A. Victor Hansen. J. Henry Waldman. .lacob
Mason.
.James .1. Denike. senior hearing stenographer.
Mr. Schmujt. In the first place. Miss Reed. I understand there was some sug-
gestion that you niighr be deprived of your vacation because of my questioning.
Miss Reed. Yes, sir.
Mr. Schmidt. Now, will you explain that to me? I want to try to straighten
that nut. because 1 don't see any reason why, because of my questioning, you
shonld lose any of your vacation.
Miss Reeo. My vacation was scheduled to start on Friday at 5 oclock, and when
I was served with a subpena from the Dies committee as of Thursday afternoon
I explained that this schedule had been worked out very carefully, and that since
the subpena said "forthwith" I would like to be tible to arrange my schedule
according to the Department's convenience, that way. So Mr. Birmingham, I
tliink his name was. said he would call you up and straighten it out. Now. what
he meant by tlnit I thiidi was a little confusing, because when I called him the
following day he said. "It's quite all right. You can take it later," and I said,
"Well, that isn't really what I mean."
Mr. Schmidt. What is that date? Friday, .June :iO? Is that the day you were
.suppo.sed to start yacatif)n?
Miss Reh>. Last Friday, yes; the 20th.
Mr. Schmidt. How long were you to go?
Miss Reiid. Three weeks.
Mr. Sciimiut. And with wliom do you make those vacation arrangements?
JMiss Rem). My local office. You see, I'm Jiead of the department, and I have to
arrange for someone else to take my supervisory work. That means dovetailing
with just one person, and there was a good deal of confusion in my office .suddenly
becau.><e Mr. Davis was suddenly called to handle the B and C department, and
that through the deputy managers mixed their vacations all up. and the person
that I was dovetailing with was going to pincli hit for them. So it was most
important that I take it as scheduled and there had been a great deal of confusion
ail week, so that's why I .asked i)articularly.
Mr. Schmidt. You didn't answer my question. With whom do you arrange to
take your vacation? What is the name of the iKirson you
Miss Reed. Mr. Davis, the manager.
Mr. Schmidt. And you arrange with Mr. Davis?
Miss Reed. Yes, sir.
SQQQ UN-AMEHICAN PROPAGANDA A( TIVITIKS
Mr. Schmidt. And you file a schedule, is that it?
Miss Reed. Yes ; a month in advance, and it had to be juggled somewhat.
Mr. Schmidt. You had to file your schedule a month in advance? With whom
did you file it?
Miss Reed. I turn it in to the manfiger. He in turn sends it to the district
superintendent.
Mr. Schmidt. Who is that?
Miss Reed. Miss Kennedy. And, I thought it went from there to Albany, but
I'm not sure.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, I can tell you. Miss Reed, that I'll see to it personally
that you don't lose any vacation on the score of my questioning. Of course, I
want to explain that I had no knowledge of the Dies committee preparation
of a subpena. I difin't have anything to do with that. nu(\ I take it that the
Dies committee acted because of the newsjjaper publicity.
Miss Reed. Yes ; that's right.
Mr. Schmidt. So that
Miss Reed. I simply told them to phone you, because they asked who would
have authority to arrange it. and I said. "Well. Mr. Schmidt knows the case very
well."
Mr. Schmidt. Yes. Well, just ease your mind about that. I'll tell you that
I guarantee you won't lose any vacation just on the score of uiy asking you a
series of (luestions.
Miss Reed. Well, it's a matter of being there at a certain schedule, you
understand. What's bothering me, because — now we have no way of dove-
tailing it.
i\lr. Schmidt. Well, if necessary, I'll see to it they import somebody with
similar qualificatiiais into youi" local office, and I think that will take care
of it.
Miss Reed. Yes ; one isn't so indispensable.
Mr. Schmidt. That's right. And now. Miss Reed, if you'll raise your right
hand, I'll swear you in.
Nancy Reed, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. Now, first I'll ask the formal questions under oath i-egardiug the Devaney
Act. — A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever at any time, by word of mouth, willfully and deliberately
advocate, advise, or teach the doctrine that the (iovernmenr of the United States
or of any State, or of any political subdivision thereof, should be overthrown
by force, violence, or any imlawful means? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever willfully and deliberately advocate, or advise, or teach, in
writing, that doctrine? — A. No.
Q. You understand what I mean? — A. Yes; 1 have l)een reading this over
very cai-efully.
Q. In other words, it will make it short if I sa.v — that doctrine, if you under-
stand mv referring back to the doctrine as described in the Devaney Act? —
A. Yes.
Q. Did you. ever print, publish, edit, issue, or sell any book, paper, document,
or written or printed matter, in any form, containing or advocating, advising or
teaching the doctrine that the Government of the United States or any State,
or any political sul>division thereof should be overthrown by force, violence,
or any unlawful means? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever advctcate, advise, teach, or embrace the duty necessary, or
the propriety of adfipting such a doctrine of unlawful means, of violence? —
A. No.
Q. Did you ever organize or help to organize, or become a member of any
society or group of [lersons. which teaches or advocates that the Government
of the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, should
be overthrown by force, violence, or by any unlawful means? — A. No.
Q. Are you now a member of the Communist I'arty? — A. No; Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Were you ever a member of it? — A. No, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Did you ever participate in any meeting of a fraction or nucleus of the
Communist Party? — A. No, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. You were never arrested in your life? — A. No. WoiUd you call an auto-
mobile casualty, where I was brought into the police station and immediately
released, or something like that?
Q. No, no. Did you ever assume any alias? — A. No.
rX-A.MKKIl A.N I'KOl'AilANDA AOTIVITIES 8667
Q. Or jtt'U name, nr otlu'i- kind of nanio? — A. No.
Q. Were you ever known to the Conununists, to your knowledKe, l)y any
other name than the name of Nancy ReedV — A. Nancy Reed only.
Q. Do yon belong to the Tra(h' I'nion Kdncatinnal League V — A. Tliat dot-sn't
exist any more.
Q. Did you belong to itV — A. Well. 1 had — I think in 1921) tiiere was an othce
worker's local that I had a card in for about a month or two, as I recall. It
was just before I went to the Soviet Union.
Q. That was a Comnnuust organization, wasn't it?— A. 1 don't know. Not to
my knowledge — the Trade I'nion — there w;is no requirement in any way iM)liti-
cal about it. Just a straight union.
Q. Did you ever belong to the Internati«mal Lal)or Defense? — A. I have con-
tributed sometimes to it. and I think a little drive they had I remember a
dollar, giving me a card. I kept it for awhile. I have never — I don't know
whether lli.-it was considered menibershiii, but I contributeil to it.
Q. Well, when did you contrilmte to that? — A. I tiiiidv that time I gave a
dollar was in 19X4. as I remember.
Q. In 1984? — A. It was a long time ago.
Q. Would y<ni be good enough to write yoni- name three times on that sheet
of paper": — A. Ye.s. sir.
Mr. ScHMinx. I'll introduce this into the record as exhibit A, as of this date.
Q. At the time that yon contributed to the I. L. D. did you know it was a
Communist organization? — A. No. I still don't know it is.
Q. You don't think it is a t'omnumist organization today, or was at that
time? — A. No. no.
Q. Were yon born in this country? — A. Yes: I was.
Q. In what city were you born"/ — A. Dunstable.
Q. Is that in Massachu.setts'.'' — A. Yes.
Q. Were you a member of the league Against War and Fascism at the time
when it existed mider that name? — A. (No response.)
Q. Do yon recall? — A. In my memory, it's the same situation as the I. L. D..
that I contributed. I certainly didn't keep a card as a member. I'm not sure
whether I was or not. but 1 would have been if I — if I understood its principles
correctly.
Q. That is the same organization which was later known as the League For
Peace and Democracy, if yon recall? — A. Yes: but I never was active in it, so I
don't remember whether my contributions were considered as member.ship.
Q. I believe you said, in answer to my questions based on the Devaney Act,
that you did not believe in the use of force, violence, or unlawful means for the
attainment of soci.-il or j)olitical ends? — A. Are you referring to the United States,
or anywhere else?
Q. Yes: in the I'liited States. — A. No.
Q. In other words, in no case would it be justified in the United States? — -A. (No
response.)
Q. Were you ever known by the name of Anne McLonghlin. to your knowl-
edge?— A. No.
Q. Are you sure <if that': — A. Yes.
Q. Woidd you write Anne McLonghlin on that pajn'r, three times, please? — A.
Yes. How do you spell the "Anne"?
Q. We'll spell it A-n-n-e.
Mr. ScHMiBT. I'll introdiue into the record of this proceeding specimens of
Miss Reed's h:uid writing of the name of Anne McLoughlin, as repeated three
times on tliis docuinent.
(Received in evidence and marked "Exhibit B" as of this date — June 23.)
Q. Does that name mean anything to you at all, the name Anne McLoughlin? —
A. I have heard it.
Q. I mean, does it mean anything i>articnlarly to yoti? — A. No.
Mr. H-ANSON. In what connection have you heard it. Miss Reed?
Miss Rekd. I thiidi it's a very common name.
Mr. H.\NsoN. Do you know any person that went by that name?
Miss Ru:d. N(»t offhand : no.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know any person that used that name?
Miss RhEi). No.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Do you believe the Communist Party is the organized vanguard of the
working classes, composed of the self-sacrificing section of the proletariat?
8668 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
A. I remember in my last testimony, spealviny about self-sacrifi.e and, that
is — that is — I think that could be said of tliem. I thiuli it could be modilled,
too, so I don't
Q. Well, for your information, I'll tell you that in ease you don't know it,
tlie Conununist Party, of course, in this country, as is true of the Corhmunist
Party all over the world, all the sections of the Third International, claim that
they are the organized vanguard of the proletariat, and I wondered whether
that agreed witli your view.
Mr. Owens. You couldn't answer that question "Yes" or "No" could you,
Miss Reed?
Miss Reed. I think it's a matter of opiniou.
Mr. Owens. You-
Miss Reed. And belief.
Mr. Owens. Couldn't answer it "Yes'' or "No''?
Miss Reed. No.
Q. Would you be willing to deny that the Communist Party of the United
States of America is a leader and organizer of the proletariat, leading the
working class in the tight for revolutionary overthrow of capitalism, and for
the establishment of the dictatoi-sliip of the proletariat, and for the estiiblish-
ment of the Socialist Soviet Republic in the United States*? — A. No.
Q. Y'ou would not be? — A. Excuse me. When you said that — I'm sorry, I
didn't hear the first part of it. Would you-
Q. I'll withdraw that question and answer, and I'll start fresh. — A. Mr.
Schmidt, may I ask one thing, too?
Q. Certainly. — A. Is this to be a continuation of my beliefs and my philosor
phiesV Is this to be a test of the Devany Act. or — I feel, really, that I
went through a good deal the last time, that I was very willing to cooperate
in what you wanted to find out, and I think I did it to the best of my ability.
And I'd like to make a statement or two on my own, since you did all the
questioning before.
Q. Go aliead, I'll welcome any statement you want to make. — A. And, I
should have aslvcd before this thing began, just what was the pni'x^ose of
having me testify again, as I did before, since we had gone into great detail
at that time. The statement I'd like to make is to the effect that if I have
been coloi-ed. red or pink, by my mother's activities who is not a member
of the Conununist Party, but is considered (ioe by the avei-age tliiuking person —
and because my sister did once work for the C<unintern as I stated before,
I certainly could be colored lily-white by the other half of my family — my
father being a minister of the Gospel, headmaster of a school previously,
my brother being an executive in a conservative organization, and every one
of us living in different parts of the world, and having very different ideas
on life, and wune of us being able to live together more than 24 liours at a
time, I)ecause of our individual beliefs, perliaps. So. this thing seems to liave
stennned from the fact that the article appeared in the paper about my
mother, winch was common knowledge a year or so before. Tlie fact that
I went to the Soviet Union five times total, and worked there a year was
very well known by the admin.istration of the State department of labor
before I was takfn on as a worker (> years ago. I came in on a civil-service
list as No. 5 on the list, and I stand on my woi-k record from that point on.
I never let my outside interests interfere with my work. When it comes to
questioning to this extent, as a result of a newspaper article, and I under-
stand from Frieda Miller's letter to us in the union that an investigation was
already in process before.
Q. Well, if you understand tliat, then you'll understand it wasn't the result
of newspaper publicity solely. — A. Well, when I came in the last time you
presented me with the new^spaper article and asked me if I had read it and
if the statement were true. I know what sort of thing the foul Hearst Press,
and e(juall.v foul World Telegram are apt to do to an incident of that sort.
You seem to have come to a conclusion in youi' minds just after tliat time,
and you took the thread of my mother's interest in the Daily Worker to call
me in and question me.
Q. You make a mistake when you say we have come to a conclusion. If
we had cctme to a conclusion you wouldn't hie here now in the cour.se of an
investigatory liearing. — A. Well, then I'll take it Itack about the conclusion.
I mean you did go into this matter as a result of this newspaper statement.
At least, it was timed apparently so. And, in regard to the union, I have
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8669
lu'c-n uiifoiMunnti'ly connccicd \\\) with Iliis t'ljisodc in tin- uiiiim Just Ix'causi'
(il tliis iiici(h>iit of my iiictiicr ;i year aijn. aiid I tliiiik that it's coiuitlcicly
covert'd in my past remarks.
Q. Wfll, sdiiit' thiniis miulit not be c-ovt'rcd in youi- past remarks, l»ut for
Olio tliinir. since I didn't put you under oath at tha; time, 1 felt that when
I did put you under oaih I'd hiive to lepeat some of the past stajies of tlie
invest ijiat ion. — A. Yes, sir.
Q. For the other thing, 1 miglit say tliat in deierminin,t>: the seope of my
examination, and therefore the seope of the (luestions which 1 propose to you, I
am .tiuided by my interpretation not oidy of the Devany Act, wliicli is an important
asiK'ct of tile wliole pnihlcm, hut also ip.v interpretation of the ;idmiiiistra ive
order, and so forth, tliat affect you. Now, let's consider for a moment, the Devany
Act. Your counsel, Mr. Leider, came in here and suggested to me that I might
possibly be mistaken in my interpretation of that act. I told him that I disagreed
Willi his interpretation, and I thought that he was mistaken. But this much I'll
tell you, of what I told him. I don't feel that I am bound only by direct questions
that pertain to the Devany Act. 1 feel that infereiiiial and circumstantial evi-
dence can be used. Obviously, they must be used with caution, and I propose to
use that necessary caution. I'm not going to victimize anybody just because of
beliefs. It is not my purpose at all. But, in testing the statement of whether
someone is a member of the Conununist I'arty, it seems to me that I can go beyond
that and test the ideology, because after all what is the C. P. except a system of
ideologies".' — A. Yes.
Q. Do you see? — A. Yes.
Q. Now. that's the point of departure of my questions, and A. IMay I ask
one thing, if you will?
Q. Surely.— A. The statement that appeared in the foul Journal American last
Thursday
Q. I have that here, somewhere.— A. It had a quote from me that I had by my
own admission worked in the Soviet Union as a labor investigator. Now, that,
of course, is not my words at all, and I'd like to know how they got so much
Information.
Q. Thai's the very question I'd like to know. Did you speak to anyone? — A. I
certainly did not.
Q. Well. I know they didn't get it from me. They didn't get it from me.—
A. Well, I don't answer any newspaper reporters.
Q. I i-ecall very well when Woltman called you he repeated in his column that
you didn't answer him. and I might put this on the record now — Do you recall
you were telephoned by Frederic Woltman of the World Telegram ^sometime
ago? — A. I do.
Q. And he addressed you certain questions, first about the union, isn't that
right?— A. Right.
Q. And, after that, he asked you a question that you considered personal to
yourself?— A. Right.
Q. \na that question was, in efl'ect- 1 don't remember the words used.
In tact. I know that the words used were. He asked vou whether you were
a Communist at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Is that right? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what was your answer to him?— A. I don't answer questions at all
Q. \ou did not deny at that time that you were a Communist?— A. Well, I
certainly didn't, because I don't give any newspapers any information, except
with or (jn advice of counsel. That's reasonable, I'm sure.
Q. And that is the reason you gave me when I questioned vou heretofore,
on that point'/- A. Right.
Q. Now. wi're there any othei- statements you wanted to make, Miss Reed,
before we went on'/- A. Well, perhaps you'll let me interject them as thev—
as I think of them?
Q. Certainly. Feel free to do that throughout. Now, you have already said
you never registered as a memlier of the Conununist Party; is that right'? — A.
When you say "registered" you use that wovd in relation to-^
Q. To the Conununist Party records? — A. Yes.
(.). H:!ve you ever registered as a member of the Conununist Partv? In vot-
ing'.'— A. No.
Q. Have you ever participated in the meetings of any shop unit, street unit,
or town unit, or branch of the Communist P.-irty, to .vour kiinwledge"? — A. Well,
I have been to an awful lot of meetings in my life.
Q. You don't remember A. P:specially in the last 10 year.s.
8(j70 un-amekk'an pkopacanda activities
Q. YoTi don't remember whether any were branches of the Communist Party? —
A. I may have come, as an invited gnest, to some of those.
Q. You say you may have. Do you recall whether you did attend a branch
meeting? — A. I don't recall, offhand.
Q. Did you ever attend a section convention of the Communist Party? — A. No.
Q. Not to your knowledge? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever attend a meeting of the section committee of the Communist
Party?— A. Nb.
Q. Did you ever attend a meeting of the section bureau of flie Communist
Party? — A. No, no.
Q Did you ever attend a meeting of the unit l>ureau of the Communist Party? —
A. No.
Q. ()t the branch bureau? — A. No.
Q. Did yo'U ever attend a district conventi(m of the Communist Party '?^A. No.
Q. Did yoiT ever attend a meeting of the district committee of the Communist
Party? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever attend a uarional conventidii of the Ci.mmunisf Party? — A. I
think there was a mass meeting in ^Madison Square Garden, as part of that, I did
go to it.
Q. When was that? — A. I think it was in June, because it was very hot, but I
don't remember exactly what year. AjJiii'oximarely 4 years ago, but I'*! like to say
here that wlit^ii ;\h'. Hanson (juestioned me the last time about attending (V/m-
munist<-ontrolled meetings 1 believe he said — and Madison Square Garden, I
didn't remember that one, and I do now remember it.
Q. Did you ever attend a meeting of th^ central conunittee of the Communist
Party?— A. No.
Q. Did you ever attend a meeting of the lu/litical bureau of flie Communist
I'arty of the I'nited States? — A. No.
Q. Were you ever invited to attend any meetings such as rlie ones I have indi-
cated, that is to say, meetings of groups, meetings of the branches, of the sections,
of the section committee meetings, of the naticaial conventions, of the central i-om-
mittee, any of those'.' — A. No. As I said befoie. if I was invited as a guest to some
of those small group.s
Q. Was it a shop unit? — A. I don't know. I don't remember.
Q Where was the meeting held? Do you remember that? — A. No.
Q. What kind of workers were there? Do you remember that'? — A. No; I don't,
frankly.
Q. Who was the section organizer who invited you? — A. I don't remember the
name either. It was a long time ago. if it happened, and I'm saying, because it's
vague in my mind, and if I went to- those as
Q. Would it be a section, I mean a unit organizer, who invited you, or the "ad —
prop" director'? — A. I don"t know. Mr. Schmidt.
Q. You don't know that"? — A. (No response.)
Q. Yen don't know?— A. No.
Q. When you went to Russia, did you attend, or were you invited to attend the
World Congress of the C. I., the Communist International? — A. No; I was not.
Q. Did you attend, or were you invited to attend, the enlarged plenim of the
C. C. I., that is the Executive Committee of the Communist International? — A.
No. May I say something here that I thought of in regard to that newspaper
article?
Q. Yes. — A. It has in italics, that is, the one I saw did.
Q. Yes ; this has the italics. — A. "Tliat only trusted members of the Com-
munist Party are allowed to work in tlie Soviet Union". Is that right?
Q. So it says here. Is that cor'recf? — A. Well, I think you know as well as
I do that that is absolutely incorrect. You know the job I did there in the
Commissariat of Labor?
Q. No; I don't know, exactly.— A. I thought I mentioned it the last time.
Well, I interviewed all the foreigners coining there applying for jobs.
Q'. You worked, then, in the Commissariat of Labor, rather than in the
Coo]terative Pulilishing Society of Foreign AVorkers? — A. I worked there for
about 2 or 3 months before this other job was organized, and it was necessary,
and then they transferred me from that job.
Q. I don't quite follow that. You worked A. At the Cooperative Publish-
ing Society of Foreign Workers in U.S.S.R.
Q. Before you worked in the Commissariat of Labor? — A. That's right.
Q. Now, was it necessary for you to be a Communist Party member, or a
sympathizer of communism, with the Communist doctrine, to work in the Coop-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8671
erative Publishing Society of Foreign Workers in the U. S. S. R. ? — A. No; it
was not. I was never asked. I was never asked before they hired me, whether
I was or not.
Q. Was it necessary for yt)u to sliow credentials that yon wore a party mem-
ber, or to adopt the party line, or the line of the Communist International, for
you to obtain and hold a position in the Commissariat of Labor in Soviet Rus-
sia?—A. No.
Q. What was that? — A. No; I say. No credentials whatsoever. I was not
asked that question.
Q. Your sister, Mary, did work for the Cooperative Publishing Society of
Foreign Workers in the U.S.S.R., is that right? — A. No. She worked for the
Comintern.
Q. I'm sorry. Just what was her position in the Comintern? — A. Translator.
Q. And when was that? — A. She has been there since 1927, I believe. Still
there. Sbe's not working for them, as I said before. For the last 5 or 6
years, I think. I think it was 1935. She has been ill with heart trouble. She
is doing a little free-lance writing for the publishing — for the State Publishing
House.
Q. Which is the same as the Cooperative? — A. No.
Q. What is the State Publishing House?— A. Well, I think it's the State— I
really don't know. I know they have one big central publishing house in Lenin-
grad and one in Moscow.
Q. Did you ever at any time conduct propaganda or agitation to induce people
to correspond with the programs and the decisions of the Third International? —
A. No, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Was your sister known by any other name, except Mary Reed? — A. No.
Q. She has no alias, to your knowledge? — A. No.
Q. Would you reject the Commuiust doctrine and program if it is the Com-
munist doctrine and program which is embodied in the following language?:
"The class struggle in almost all of the countries of Europe and America is
entering the phase of civil war. Under such conditions the Communists can
have no confidence in bourgoisie law. They must everyone create a parallel
illegal apparatus which, at the decisive moment could assist the party in per-
forming its duty to the revolution. In all countries where, in consequence of
martial law or exceptional laws the Com.munists are unable to carry on their
work legally, a combination of legal and illegal work is absolutely necessary."
Miss Reed. INIay I ask first, who is this gentleman here?
Mr. Schmidt. This is Mr. Waldman, Mr. Hanson's assistant.
A. You say — "if this is the Communist doctrine." Now, thei'e are things
about the Communist philosophy that I agree with very heartily. There are
also things that I don't. I have not read this my.self. I would want to study
it before I'd say yes or no to that. And I can't say offhand, so I won't.
Q. Well, can you say, if I show it to you, to read?
A. I'd rather not. It's very meaty thinking, as most of those things are, and
it can require modification or elaboration.
Q. Well, the meat of it is very simple, if you read the English; it simply
means that in furtherance of the revolution Communists must be prepared to
combine legal and illegal work.
A. I'd rather not answer that, because I'm not — I don't feel qualified. I have
said before, there are parts of their philosophy that I agree with.
Q. Do you acknowledge any duty to revolution? That was the phrase here.
A. No. All of this is assuming a good deal, Mr. Schmidt, and I don't.
Q. All right. That's the answer, then. And, of course, if you don't acknowl-
edge a duty, a revolutionary duty, then you can't consider yourself guilty, as
Communists have considered other guilty, of a betrayel of revolutionary duty?
Mr. OwKNS. I'm not sure that IMiss Keed clearly understands that question.
Do you understand that question, Miss Reed?
Miss Reed. That last one — it is very confusing.
Mr. Schmidt. I'll withdraw that question. I'll put it in again.
Q. Since you say you acknowledge no duty to revolution, it would follow, I
take it, that for ymi at least, there is no such thing as a betrayal of revolutionary
duty, even if the Communists talk about such a betrayal? — A. I think that is
still involved, Mr. Schmidt, and I think it isn't answerable by "yes" or "no."
And I think I cannot go into the whole breadth of the philosophy and beliefs
and discuss with you just which part of it I support in my own mind and those
that I don't.
62626 — 41— vol. 14 33
8672 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Q. Do you believe that without revohitionary overthrow of capitalism, no
democratic I'eorganizatiou will save mankind from imperialist war?
A. No, I don't believe that. I really think, to pick out — as you have aU
through these documents — little pieces that you think would analyze just what
I agree with and what I don't agree with, is a mistake. I, perhaps, can pick
out for you some that I do agree with and some that I don't and do it better
than
Q. Well, the only reason why A. This is a long process of picking out parts,
all of which are related to the whole article, and which in themselves don't
really substantiate anything. I think it's a mistake to continue this, really I do.
Q. I'm going to ask you to be patient with my method of procedure. I have
a special reason for quoting language, rather than using my own. I could
easily use my own language. — A. I think it would be a lot simpler for me to
understand, Mr. Schmidt, that those, some of those passages, all of which are
tied in together with the whole thesis. I"m sure a great many people who have
been to the Soviet Union would agree with a lot of those things in there, and
not with everything, and it seems to be your point is to prove either tliat I
believe in everything or not.
Q. Oh, no. I'm not a bit impressed with that as my point. As a matter of
fact, I'll be frank to say there are some things in the Communist doctrine that
I myself believe. — A. Well, I think that is vei'y creditable. I know a lot of
people who have been there and come back the way I feel about it — interested
in the thing — and I think this whole war situation puts a very different slant
on things too.
Q. I have no doubt it puts a very different slant on things — it makes patriots
(Hit of the Daily Worker and A. I don't believe that. I mean, when I heard
John Steele speak jesterday over the radio from London, he praised the Soviet
Union for many things, he even praised Stalin. He said he was no fool, and
said other thing's equally complimentary. And he said "Now I suppose I'll be
called a Bolshevik, and I'm not." And that's the thing that I have been called
for so long that I'm practically immune to it, because I have been interested
in the Soviet Union for 10 or 12 years and I have helped on that Committee
for Recognition at the time before we recognized them, and I have consistently
seen things that I value very highly in the Soviet Union. Now, the trend of
events and the whole war hysteria, and this accusation about my being my
mother's daughter, and she being connected with the Daily Worker, all puts a
very black light on me at present. And there are people who know me for
years and years as a good worker. And I have not — —
Q. Have I given any evidence that I have thought the less of you because you
are your mother's daughter? — A. Well, it certainly has been brought in. and my
sister has been brought in.
Q. Well, that A. I'd like to bring in something about my father, if you are
interested in that, I mean.
Q. Certainly, go ahead. — A. In all my family— —
Q. I have no objections to your bringing in something about your father.
That's perfectly agreeable to me. — A. Well, I mean, it's all part of the picture,
and you want to get a whole picture. Perhaps I'm suffering a little bit, not
having had a vacation, but I seem to be going over this ground so many times.
I frankly don't see — and I thought after last time, we went over all this, and
that this business of picking spots out of all these periodicals and things —
really, didn't tell very nmch, did it? I mean, when I tell you definitely that I
believe in some of it and I don't believe in other parts of it, and I'm not a
Conununist, and I — and that I'm my mother's daughter, etc.. etc.
Q. Well, I think, Miss Reed, that statement of yours is the very basis why I
would continue this line. You say that you believe in some of it and don't
believe in other parts of it. That's precisely what I understood up to now, and
because I wanted to isolate what you believe in from what you don't believe in.
I felt the only way I could do it is to give you excerpts from acknowledged
Communist sources, and ask you whether you did believe or did not believe in
them. — A. Well, excerpts which are part of a whole, documents which in them-
selves as picked out cannot be good proof of anything at all. I can read these
things through and believe in part of it and not in another part of it.
Q. That's right. That's right. And I just want to find out what you believe
in. That's why I'm asking you. — A. Well, I stick to the Devaney law. I know
it practically by heart, and that seems to be involved in all these questions
that you are asking me.
UN-AMEUICAN I'lK H'Ad AM >A A( ' 11 \- 1 IIKS 8673
Q. That is involved, bnt that is not the only thing I'm considering. — A. That,
I understood, was what you told me in the very beginning was the reason for
your questioning, wlien I first came in.
Q. It was, at that time; yes. Here, let me ask a general question before I
again address myself to these articles. Do you know enough about the Com-
munist doctrine, the Communist line in this country to be able to tell me
whether or not Communists advocate revolutionary means, means of violence
and lawlessness if the dictatorship of the pi-oletariat can be advanced by those
means? — A. I don't think I know that question ; no.
Q. To put it more simply, does the Communist Party line and the Com-
miuiist program, and the decisions of the Comintern, do all of those sources
repudiate the doctrine that the end justifies the means, in all cases? — ^A. (No
response.)
Q. The end. of course, being the dictatorship of the proletariat, or socialism,
or communism, depending upon what stage of advantagement you pick. — A. I
don't know that.
Q. You don't know that, either? — ^A. No.
Q. Well, you will concede, won't you, that Stalin knows as well as any man
living what the Communist program and the Communist line entails? — A. I
should judge so ; yes.
Q. In an article in the Communist of February 1935, volume 14, No. 2, the
article being called the Socialist Revolution in the United States, Stalin is
quoted as having said : "Is an upheaval of this kind, is a radical transforma-
tion of the old bourgeois system, possible without a forcible revolution? Is
it possible without establishing the dictatorship of the proletariat? Obviously
not. To think that such a revolution can be carried out peacefully within the
framework of bourgeois democracy, within the framework of the system that
is adapted to maintain bourgeois rule, means one of two things ; it either means
madness, an inability to understand the ordinary significance of words, or else
it means a cynical repudiation of the proletarian revolution." That's one quota-
tion, and it refei's in this quotation to a previous part of the article, where it
.said : "The fundamental task of the bourgeois revolution is to seize power, and to
adapt that power to the already existing bourgeois economy. The fundamental
task of the proletariat revolution is, on seizing power, to construct a new
socialist economy." [The publication is handed to the witness.] — A. Will you
let me see that?
Q. Surely. — A. I am — I never have taken to politics in any way easily. It
is very ditiicnlt for nie. Right now. I have — I think you can appreciate the
week end heat — and I would have to study very very long and arduously before
I could answer, Mr. Schmidt. I'm not in any mental state, with all this thing
I have been through, to go and put my mind on answering these very de<?p
theoretics"! questions.
Q. Well, I brought that quotation f)Ut because you had admitted a moment
ago you didn't know that the Communist Party and the Communist Party
program, the world over, stood for revolutionary means, force and violence, and
illegal means, when they were deemed necessary by the vangiiard to establish
the dictatorship of the proletariat. — A. I understood you to explain last that
the Conunuuist Party of America was sepanite from the International. Now,
I'm nor prepared to go into this theory. I have told you befoi-e what I stand for
and what I believe. You're much bettei- at this sort of stuff than I am.
I — read this first
Q. Do yon believe that the Commiun'sr Party is out to carry on a i^ystematic
and persistent connnunislic work in trade-unions, and W()rkers' industrial
councils, and cooperative societies, and in mass organizations?
A. That all depends on how it's done. I don't believe in it offhand.
Q. You acknowledge no duty on your own part to devote your entire activity
to the interest of really revolutionary propaganda and agitation, along the
Conununist line? — ^A. No.
Q. Do you acknowledge any duty to give all possible snijport to the Soviet
Republic piihlicMtions? — A. No. None, other than what Chuichill has just is-
sued— Out to Fight the Nazi System.
Q. When you were here the last time you took the position 1 think that you
were opposed to all war. — A. I hate war.
Q. You still are opposed to all war? — A. I still hate war. Mr. Schmidt. I
said rhat rather glibly abctut Churchill's statement, that we don't question who
our neighbor is. as long as they are fighting a common foe, and when you said
8674 UN-AMERICAN PROPA(JANDA ACTIVITIES
all aid toward Soviet, I meaut in this respect— not less than any military aid
at all.
Q. Do you believe that the Communist Party in the United States has become
the trusted vanguard of the working classes?
A. No; I don't think I can say that.
Q. Do you think the working class ought to regard it as their trusted van-
guard and beloved organizer?— A. No.
Q. Do you believe that the proletarian dictatorship is the way out of social,
political, and economic ills today? — A. Where?
Q. In America. — A. No ; I think they have done it in the Soviet Union. That
is their business and entirely apart fi'om this country.
Q. Do you think it is the historic mission of the working classes to effect a
revolutionary overthrow of the capitalist system in this country? — A. No.
Q. Do you think the Communist Party is the only party that fights uncom-
promisingly for the interest of the workers in this country? — A. No.
Q. Do you acknowledge any obligation to fulfill the decisions of the World
Congress and the committees of the Communist International — A. No.
Q. Have you read the program of the Communist International — A. I remen>-
ber starting it once, but I certainly never got through it.
Q. Do you acknowledge that program as an outline of your duty in handling
political or social or economic problems? — A. No, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Where did you receive your high-school education?— A. Cambridge.
Q. England? — A. Massachusetts. I had so many schools. That was the only
actual high school that I went to. I went to other schools.
Q. You went to high school in England, too, didn't you? — A. Well, it was
called Oxford High School for Girls, but I don't think it was the same as our
high school here.
Q. I see. You went to Smith College, then, for a while? — A. I did.
Q. And Radcliffe?— A. Right.
Q. And Simmons? — A. Right.
Q. After that, where did you go'? — A. I went to work.
Q. You worked first for wliom? — A. William Filene & Sons.
Q. After that, for whom did you woi'k? — A. The Brooklyn Bureau of Charities
was my next big job. I may have had quite a few little ones in between there.
Q. And after that? — A. Then I worked for Miss Odenkrantz in the employ-
ment center for handicapped, approximately 4Vj years.
Q. And vou stopped that around 1931? — A. No; it was before that. I think —
yes ; 1931, that's right.
Q. And after that, where did you work? — A. I went to the Soviet Union for
that year ; that was the winter of 1931 and 1932.
Q. And that was the time when you worked at first for the Cooperative
Publishing House? — A. Yes.
Q. And later for the Commissariat of Labor in Russia? — A. That's right.
Q. What, exactly, were your duties in working first for the Cooperative Pub-
lishing House and then for the Commissiariat of Labor? — A. A very minor job.
I did some typing and proofreading for the publishing house.
Q. In English?— A. Yes.
Q. Do you speak Russian? — A. No. Then I was asked to be transferred to
this Commissariat of Labor job, because they needed someone to interview
incoming foreigner workers and I had had employment service and they were
very anxious to have me do that, so I was transferred to that job.
Q. And you did interview American worker.s? — A. American engineers and
workers of all kinds. I had a job for 1,200 Canadian coal miners 1 day and I
sent to Miss Odenkrantz, to put into clearance.
Q. And that was the brunt of your work for the Commissariat of Labor? —
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Placing experienced technical people? — A. I really didn't place them. I
sent them with an interpreter, after I registered them, with an interpreter to the
Trust itself, which is the way the thing is set up there, and they in turn
selected them and sent them to jobs.
Q. Were you guided by an employer specifications in making those selections? —
A. No. They were so hard up for people at that time they — they, as I say — I
Bent 6 Canadians to this coal trust, and got an order back for 1,200 more just
like them.
Q. Weren't they careful at least to try to keep out Fascists or Gestapo? —
A. No ; not at that time. The people could come in as tourists and change over
to a worker's visa very easily.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8675
Q. All right. Then after you came back from Russia you worked where? —
A. (No response.)
Q. In November ll>32 you came back, didn't you, or thereabouts? — A. Along
in there ; yes. I worked for the New York State Employment Service, on their
temporary pay roll, in the Brooklyn ottice for about 6 months. I think it was
May when tiiey were through at that particular job.
Q. And, after May, did you go bark to Russia for awhile? — A. No; I was out
of work for about 5 months, until the fall again. Then I worked — I had picked
up jobs, but the next big job was with the Federal Interviewer Transient
Bureau and that was until about a year — I think it was.
Q. Was it September of 1934 that you worked as a placement interviewer? —
A. Yes ; in the Home Relief Bureau, until my appointment to the State.
Q. And after your appointment to the State, in the division of placement, did
you go to Russia again? — A. I went on one more trip, I think it was in 1937,
my last trip, or was it — I know I went in 1937 for my vacation, I made five
altogether— 1929, 1930, 1931, and in 1935 I believe I went for 2 weeks— I was
there and then 1937. Yes ; that's right, that's right.
Q. When you went in 1935 A. It was before I took the State job, that's
right.
Q. Just Immediately before you took the State job? — A. Yes; I had a month's
vacation, and I went over and back.
Q. You didn't work in Russia at that time? — A. No; I went there for a
vacation.
Q. Well, when you made out your application for civil-service employment you
didn't fsiet forth your employment in Soviet Russia, did you?
A. I don't remember that — whether I did or not. But it was — mainly be-
cause I left the job with Miss Odenkrantz to be married, and I left that year out.
Q. I don't understand what your marriage has to do with your employment
record. — A. Well, I left Miss Odenkrantz to be married.
Q. Is that the time you went to Russia? — A. In 19.31, or — yes; I went in 1931.
Then my plans changed and I got a job over there, and I stayed there for a
year.
Q. But, you see, you made your application out for civil-service employment
in 1935 or 1936, as I recall it.— A. That's right.
Q. Now, at that time you did not insert the record of your employment in
Soviet Russia? — ^A. Well, if I didn't, it was, perhaps, because I felt it had no
bearing on my personnel work, and I still don't see that it was required. I
don't remember at all my reason for it. I just know that I have made out a
good many of those blanks and just put down at that time which was true, the
reason for leaving. That's what it was there.
Q. You don't know of any other reason why you omitted it except what you
have just given? — A. No; I don't, because it was common knowledge, everybody
knew it — when I came back — that I had worked there.
Q. You suggested that you didn't think that your employment in Russia had
anything to do with your job. the job you were looking for. — A. Well, I don't
think to this day that it would have any particular bearing. If you're indicating
that I left it out for a reason, that it would be misunderstood — I don't have any
recollection of doing that — doing it for that reason.
Q. I'm not indicating anything. I just want to know. — A. Well, I don't really
know why I did it. Maybe there wasn't room on the page. I have so many
Mr. Hanson. But the work you did in Russia was the same type of work that
you were trying to locate here.
Mi.ss Reed. Yes ; that is true, but certainly not according to the American
system.
Q. I don't understand your suggestion that it had no bearing. Since it was
personnel work, it would have a direct bearing, wouldn't it? — A. Well — think
what you like about that omission. But I really don't know why I did it, and I
see no reason to have omitted it for any other reason than I left to be married,
and I gave that as a reason for leaving my other job, and I have nothing to hide
about that experience. I don't know that I put it in. As a matter of fact, it was
about 3 months' work I did a short-time job, and so
Q. Well, you worked for the Soviet Union for a year? — A. I was there a year.
I began to work in — in October, and I know I had 514 months' employment on the
publi.shing house, becau.se I was eligible for a vacation and it was while I was
on the vacation that I .started to work in the Commissariat of Labor. Now, the
Commissariat of Labor job stopped because the war situation grew very severe
3(376 UN-AMEUrCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
aud they did uot allow people any longer to come in as easily as they had heeu,
and my job was completed, and because I had been taken from one job to an-
other, my employer was required to — Borodin — to find another niche for me
where he was working on the Moscow News and I worked there about a month
I think before I went ou my vacation, and after which I returned to Ameiica.
Q. Is that the Borodin tliat subsequently was physically liquidated? — A. I
don't think so. I think he is still managing editor of the Moscow News, I'm not
sure.
Q. You said you were married in 1931? — A. I left to be married, Mr. Schmidt,
and my ijlans changed.
Q. You didn't get married? — A. No.
Q. Now, did you at any time ever maintain in your office a list of Communist
comrades, for placement? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell anybody that you had such a list in your desk? — ^A. No.
Q. And that you were using that list to help place "comrades" in positions? —
A. No.
Q. Do you know Grace Hutchins ? — A. Yes ; I know Grace Hutchins.
Q. 'Who is Grace Hutchins ";' — A. She works in the Labor Research Association.
Q. Is the Labor Research Association a Communist organ? — A. Not to my
knowledge. I don't know.
Q. Who else works there? — A I know Bob Dunn, or Bill.
Q. Is he a Communist? — A. No ; I don't think so.
Q. Well, aren't you familiar with the fact that he has written in the Party
Organizer, and other Communist organs? — A. No; but I don't think that's the
requirement to be a Communist, to write in tliose journals. I don't^ — I think he is
another one that has always been branded as a "red," because he has been asso-
ciated with the left-wing radical movement all the time. I know he works there.
I know him sligiitly.
Q. Is Grace Hutchins a Communist? — A. I think she was on a public office as
a Communist.
Q. Didn't she once run for comptroller of the State on the Communist ticket? —
A. Yes.
(}. That would make her a Communist? — A. Yes.
Q. Did she ever send names to you, or refer to you comrades for employment
in the State service? — A. I don't know if they were comrades. She has some-
times sent me people with research experience to see if I could steer them to
the right department for jobs. This, I want you to know, has been done by so
many organizations, and I think I am particularly susceptible to being asked by
organizations, clinics, and ho.spitals, particularly because I have worked in handi-
cap work for so long that I have become what is known as an information
bureau for a good deal of the State jobs for handicapped people.
Q. When you went to Russia the last time — I believe you said it was 1937
or 1938?— A. Yes.
Q. You met Dorothy Rehm in Russia, didn't you? — A. No; I think we just
missed each other. No ; she didn't go at the same time I did. I know she was
going around that time.
Q. Well, you gave her a letter to your sister, didn't you? — A. I believe so. I
very often did — use my sister to show people the things around there. She
speaks Russian very well.
Q. Didn't you and Dorothy Rehm go to Russia at the same time, although
not on the same boat? — A. No.
Q. Didn't you meet Dorothy Rehm in Russia?— A. No.
Q. You didn't? — A. What year did Dorothy Rehm go to Russia? I don't re-
member. I know she was going, but I didn't think she went at the same time.
Q. Didn't she talk with you before she went ? — A. Well, I knew she was going.
I knew she wanted to know about the price of tickets and what not, of that
sort, prices, and tickets.
Q. Did she make arrangements and booking through you? — A. No.
Q. But you're sure you didn't meet her in Ru.ssia at that time? — A. No; I have
no recollection of it, because I think she was — she went at a different time. I
can't remember, but I don't remember seeing her there.
INIr. Hanson. Did you meet anybody else over in Russia that worked with
the division at that time, or is still working with the division?
Miss Reed. You mean Dorothy Ryder, maybe? I think Dorothy Ryder came
in at the same time I came in.
Q. You met her in Russia ? — A. I saw her one day ; yes. We were in the
same city ; that's right.
U\-A.MKUK'AX PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8677
Q. At biviikfast with lier and your sister? — A. I don't tbiuk so. I don't re-
jnember.
(>. Did you give Dorothy Ityder a hotter to your sister? — A. I don't remember.
I know, she knows I have a sister there, and if slie could
Q. Do you know Roy Hudson? — A. I know who he is.
Q. Do you know him personally? — A. No.
Q. You've never met him? — A. I have talked to other people where he was
around, sliakiug- hands with him
Q. Who is he? — A. He is a member of the Communist Party.
Q. On the Central Committee of the Communist Party, isn't he? — ^A. I don't
linow.
Q. Did you ever attend any fraction of the Communist Party when he was
present ?^ — A. No.
Q. Any fraction of the Communist Party in the N. M. U.? — A. No.
Q. Were you active in the N. M. U.? — A. No.
Q. Do you know what I mean? — A What do you mean? C. I. O.? I know
that, but what do yovi mean by being active?
Mr. Hanson. Do you belong to the women's auxiliary?
Miss Hekd. I helped them in their organizing, in the food kitchen particu-
larly.
Mr. Hanson. Would your helping them bring you to frequent the union
headquarters, or the headquarters at 230 Seventh Avenue?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Hanson. Were you ever in the building?
iliss B.EED. Not to my knowledge. I have been in a number of offices, I
til ink, once or twice. Whei'e is that? On Eleventh Avenue?
Mr. Hanson. But you have never been at 230 Seventh Avenue, the Com-
munist headquarters for the water front?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Hanson. Where did you meet — the women's auxiliary?
Miss Reed. I didn't meet with them. I was much too l)usy at tliat time. Tliey
used to invite me to some of their meetings, and I could never go. I just know
that if I could help them at all in organizing food kitchens, I helped, and raising
money for food supplies.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Do you know Joe Statchell?— A. No.
Q. Know who he is? — A. I have heard the name Statchell, but I don't think
it's "Joe.''
Q. He's a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party and was
at one time chief of their labor policy in the United States.
Did you ever meet Earl Browder, personally? — A. No. I saw him once at a
meeting at which he bowed to me because I recognized him, and that's all I know
of him.
Mr. Waldman. Miss Reed, did you ever direct the activities of the Young Com-
munist's League on the water front?
Miss B.KEJ). No : I didn't.
Mr. W'aij)man. Do you know Blackie Meyers?
Miss REf:D. Yes.
Mr. Waldman. How well do you know him?
Miss Reed. Not very well. I knew him in the strike.
Q. Winestone — do you know him? — A. No.
Q. Kedacht? — A. No. These names are all familiar to me, but I don't know
them personally.
]Mr. Wai.dman. How well do you know Beth MacHenry?
Miss Rked. Oh. I have known her for — she was a writer — I know her.
Q. On the Daily Worker staff?— A. Yes.
Mr. Waldman. Is she a known Communist?
Miss RET.a>. Well, I don't know whether you have to be a Communist to be a
writer on the Daily Worker.
Mr. Waldman. "That wasn't the question I asked.
Miss Rekd. When you say "known Connnunist," are you assuming that everyone
who is working on the Daily Worker is a Conmiunist?
Mr. Han.son. No. He is asking whether you believe her to be a Communist.
Miss Reed. No; I have — it's commonly assumed that she is.
Mr. Hanson. Well, you know now what he wants.
Mi.ss Reed. She probably is. Everyone — that is not my understanding, but — •
everyone who works on the Daily Worker is assumed
g(J78 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mi\ Hanson. But you share the general assumption that she is a Communist?
Miss Reed. I would ; yes. I share it, but I have no way of knowing.
Mr. Wai-dman. Do you know a man by the name of Goldwater?
Miss Rb:ed. No.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. Do you recall working with him in Russia ? — ^A. No.
Q. Do you know George Mink? — A. No ; I don't know him.
Q. Did you ever get an invitation, from him or anyone else, to attend a meet-
ing in Detroit or Chicago? — A. No; to my knowledge, I didn't — at all.
Q. Did you have a summer home in Massachusetts? — A. No; I haven't.
Q. Did you have one?— A. I don't own any property.
Q. Did you have? — A. No.
Q. Did you have some friend, or some relative of yours there?- -A. Yes; I come
from Massachusetts.
Q. Where did you live in Massachusetts, besides Dunstable? — A. I was brought
up in Cambridge, Mass.
Q. What was the address? — A. Lived on Walker Street, most of the time.
Q. What was the address at Dunstable? — A. There wasn't any. I don't even
remember the house where I was born — just a little house.
Q. Any other address in Massachusetts that you lived at? — A. Why, I guess
I have lived a good many places in Massachusetts.
Q. What were some of those addresses, if you recall? — A. I visited Springfield ;
my mother has a house.
Q. Where is your mother's house? — A. At Sandwich, Cape Cod.
Q. Sandwich, on Cape Cod?— A. That's right.
Q. While you lived there, were — to your knowledge — any records of the Com-
munist Party found hidden on the premises of any of those houses? — A. No.
Q. Do you know Tommy Ray? — A. I have heard of him ; his name is familiar.
Q. You don't remember where you met him? — A. No; I don't.
Q. Do you know Arthur Thomas? — A. No; I think his name is connected
with, or was, with the N. M. U. at one time.
Q. Did you meet him? — A. I — probably in strike situations — I did.
Q. You don't remember the situations under which you met him? — A. No;
I don't.
Q. Do you know Bella Dodd? — A. No; I have never had the pleasure of meet-
ing her.
Q. Ferdinand Smith?— A. I know he's secretary of the National Maritime
Union.
Q. Have you met him ? — A. Yes ; I have met him personally ; yes.
Q. Is he a Conununist, to your knowledge? — A. I have no knowledge of it.
It's the same as the other people — they are labeled.
Q. Do you know Howard Mackenzie? — A. Yes.
Q. Where did you meet him? — A. During the strike. I couldn't tell you the
day, or the time, or the place, at all.
Q. Is he a Communist, to your knowledge? — A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. William Howe? — A. Never heard of him.
Q. He was also known by the name of Jamieson. — A. No.
Q. Never heard of that/^ — A. No.
Q. You don't recall receiving any invitation from Mink or from anyone else
in the Communist Party, in the spring of this year, to attend A. Of this
year?
Q. (Continuing.) To attend a meeting at Detroit?— A. I certainly didn't. I
would know that. It's very recent.
Q. In any other year, or at any other time? — A. No.
Q. You would be sure about that, too? — A. The name IMink is only a name
to me. I surely would know if he had written me a letter, and I haven't
received any.
Q. Who is Mink? Do you know? — A. No, I don't. I know he is connected
with the seamen in some way— I don't know anything more.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know Rose Waters?
Miss Reed. I know the name.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know her?
Miss Reed. No.
Q. You understand that she is a Communist?— A. I understand that she worked
for the Communist Party.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8679
Q. She is a member of the Central Committee, isn't she? — A. I don't know.
Mr. Hanson. Do yon know Andrew Overgaard"?
Miss Retj). No. I have heard the name. l)nt I don't know him.
Mr. Hanson. Do yon know a man by the name of Joe Zack?
Miss Uked. No. I saw his name in some paper, bnt I don't know him.
Mr. Hanson. Do you remember the occasion"/
Miss Uked. No.
Mr. Hanson. Do yon know Thomas Ray?
Mr. Schmidt. I asked her that.
:^Ir. Hanson. Oh, I'm sorry. You say your mother had a summer home in
Sandwich, Cape Cod?
Miss Keed. That's right.
Mr. Hanson. Did you visit tliere?
Miss Rb:ed. I have ; yes.
Mr. Hanson. At any time that you visited there, did you ever see Earle
Browder there?
Miss Rexd. No.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether or not Earle
Browder was ever there?
Miss Refj). To my knowledge, he never has been.
Mr. Hanson. And you met Earle Browder only once?
Miss Reed. I didn't— I wasn't even introduced to him. I remember recognizing
him, because of seeing his pictures, and bowing to him and he bowed back to
me. Now, if that's knowing a person, I don't know — I don't agree with It.
Mr. Hanson. But that's the extent of your acquaintance with Earle Browder?
Miss Reed. That's right.
Mr. Waldman. May I ask a question? Are you married now?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Waldman. How weU do you know Ted Lewis, or, his regular name is
Albert Edward Lewis?
Miss Reed. I really think this is getting personal. I should like to consult
counsel before I make any statements about my very personal life.
Mr. Waldman. I'm not interested in your personal life, Miss Reed.
Miss Reed. Well, but you're a.sking
Mr. Hanson. We ask that in the same connection we ask all these other
people here. It might be personal to ask you whether you know these other
people here.
Miss Reed. He said "how well," not if I know him. I do know Mm.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, we'll change that.
Mr. Waldman. Do you know Ted Lewis?
Miss Reed. Yes ; I know him.
Mr. Waldman. Have you heard from him lately?
Miss. Reed. No. I really don't think that tliat ought to be asked, Mr. Schmidt.
Mr. Schmidt. I'm in control of the meeting, and if you give me a good reason
why it shouldn't be asked I'll witlidraw the question. Why are you so
Miss Refd. I'm a little emotional about that because the last I know his ship
was torpedoed, and I feel very keenly about it and I'd rather not go into it.
Mr. Waldman. Don't you hear from him through somebody in Halifax?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Waldman. You don't?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, I don't understand the source of this emotion you speak of.
Miss Reed. I mean — after all, that is getting pretty personal.
Mr. Schmidt. I can't know it's personal any more than I would
Miss Rked. You know, by the way I react, that it's a little, a little difficult
for me to be quite unemotional.
Mr. Schmidt. You see. Miss Reed, if I conducted an investigation, and every
time somebody said "I get emotional about that question" and I withdrew
that question, then, of course, I'd have to stop my investigation.
Miss Reed. Well, of course, my being emotional about it — after all, it's about
2 hours I have tried to hold my temper, and I'm very, very tired. And you
hit a subject that is very close to my heart.
Mr. Schmidt. All right. If you mean by that that you have a special place
in your affections for him, then I won't press my questions about Mr. I.,ewis.
Mr. Wau)Man. Except one question, please. Do you know of him being a
Communist?
8680 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Miss Reed. He has been called that, just like everybody else, but I don't know.
Mr. Waldman. To your knowledge, he was lost on that shipV
Miss Reed. Yes.
Mr. Schmidt. I don't think it's necessary to go into that.
Mr. Owens. Miss Reed, are you familiar with the 21 pctints of the Communists
International?
Miss Reed. No ; I'm not.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Are you familiar with O. Piatnipsky's manual on thatV — A. Is that what
you have been reading all this fromV
Q. That's one of the things.— A. Then I am familiar with it to that extent.
Q. Did you ever know a man by the name of MacQuistonV — A. Yes.
Q. What do you know about himV— A. It's almost difficult for me to say what
I think of him. I met him — during the strike, as I met so many of those National
Maritime Union people. The strike was in 1936 and 1937. I haven't seen him
since and I never want to see him again as long as I live. You know as well as
I do what his i-ecord has been.
Q. No ; I don't know as well as you do, apparently. — A. Well, he has been fired
from his own union for 90 years.
Mr. Hanson. That's a long time.
Miss Reed. It isn't long enough.
A. (Contiiuiing.) He has been proven to have been one who actually had a
part in the slaying of one of the best union men in New Orleans, or — I don't
remember the southern Gulf port.
Mr. Schmidt. You made a statement there, under oath, that I would just advise
you as an attorney might subject you to — if it ever got out
Miss Reed. I beg your pardon.
Mr. Schmidt (continuing). To penalty, as slander. If it's true, I'm interested,
but I want you to be very
Miss Reed. No : I'm
Mr. Schmidt. Strike it out, then.
Miss Reei>. Yes; I want to start again. That he has been accused publicly,
because I know he has had a trial.
Mr. Schmidt. Was he acquitted?
Miss Re:ed. He was in jail as a result of it.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, he could be in jail awaiting trial, you see. I'm won-
dering
Miss Reed. No ; it was after the trial. I'd better not be getting into this thing,
because I'm not cle.ir enough of the facts.
Q. You're quite sure? — A. No.
Q. Well, it would be easy enough to check. — A. I know he has appeared before
the Dies committee many times, and I think — I don't know, if he's around New
York. I heard recently that he was, and that its how he makes his living.
Q. How? — A. By working for the Dies committee.
Q. You said you heard recently he was in New York. From whom did you
hear that? — A. I don't remember that. I'm sure I heard his name mentioned.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know Conrad Jones?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Hanson. You don't know Conrad
Miss Reei>. I know a Jones that was in the strike, but I don't know his first
name. It might have been that one.
Mr. Hanson. Would it refresh your memory if I told you he handled all of the
relief cases for the N. M. U.?
Miss Reed. No ; I didn't know him as that.
Mr. Hanson. From 1937 to 1939?
Miss Reed. I didn't know him as that. A Jones I remember in the strike case,
that's all.
Mr. Hanson. Didn't he send people down to you?
Miss Reed. No ; he didn't.
Mr. Hanson. When you were on the relief bureau, or whatever you call it?
Miss Reed. No. I was with the relief bureau for 6 months in 1934, before the
strike, before even N. M. U.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. I'm going to refer you to this article that was the latest reference to you in
the newspapers, to my knowledge. There might have been others that I didn't
rX-AMEKIlAN I'KOl'AtiANDA ACJlMliKS 8681
follow fhat apiioarcd in tho Now York Journal on the date indii-atod tliere. What
date is that?— A. Yos ; this is the one.
Q. What's that date?— A. Juno 1!>.
Q. That makes certain reference to you. I'd like to lind out from you whether
those rc^ferences are true, insofar as they affect you, and what would have been
the source of this, accordins: to your knowhKlge or opinion? — A. I wish I knew the
source. I'll admit. Mr. Scinnidt. that 1 couldn't figure out how this labor inves-
tig-.itor's statement came out other than (hroufjh my testimony here. In the first
place, I never called myself a labor investigator, and it isn't the Kremlin State
rubUshing H mse either! and I don't know at all how this got here.
Q. Weli, if y<iu recall, your record before me the last time, you did not go into
the nature of the work you did in Soviet Russia. — A. I remember saying to you
that I worked in the Conmiissariat of Labor.
Q. Did you? I didn't know anything about the type of work. — A. Okay, okay.
Q. Nowl is there any source that you have an opinion about that we might
investigate?— A. No; if's not labeled with anyone's writing— civil-service employee
since "26, which is incorrect — it should be '36. Lives at 16 Union Square, which
also is not correct. Senior interviewer, and so forth. 50 Lafayette Street — already
has been called by the Labor Department as a witness. I wish I knew where it
came from, Mr. Schmidt. I haven't any idea. I certainly tried to keep it as quiet
as I coukl that 1 have been called here.
Q. You wern't interviewed by anyone? — A. No; I was not, and I would not be.
I considered this private and I want to keep it so.
Mr. Waldman. Have you stated for our record where you live?
Miss Reed. It's two addresses, to be exact. It's 101 East Sixteenth Street,
because it's on Sixteenth Street. It also has an address 36 Union Square because
it faces that way, too.
Mr. Wai.dman. You still live there now?
:Miss Reei>. I have lived there 5 years.
Mr. Waldman. Still living there now?
Miss Reed. Yes.
By Mr. Hanson :
Q. Miss Reed, did you ever at any time try to bring back into the fold of the
Communist Party any ex-Communists V
A. Now. Mr. Hanson
Q. That's simple. — A. To bring back assumes that you are there.
Q. Well, you take an ex-Communist. That means he is thrown out of the
party. Now, did you ever persuade anybody to change their mind and go back
to the party? — A. I don't know. I don't remember doing anything like that.
I should say "no." oftTiand.
Q. Would you ever find yourself in a position A. Who are you referring
to?
Q. Just generally, anyone at all. — A. No ; no.
Q. You never tried to induce some party that had been expelled, or had
left the party — the Communist Party — to return to the party? — A. No.
Mr. Owens. Miss Reed, is it possible for a Communist to leave the party?
Miss Rled. Oh, I believe so, of course. I have heard of plenty. MacQuiston,
for one.
Mr. Owens, lie was expelled?
Miss RI':ed. Yes.
Q. I'm talking about anybody that has either been exjielled or that left the
party. — A. I know Granville Hicks left voluntarily. He disagreed with some-
thing, and there have been plenty of people like that.
Q. You haven't asked him at any time to return to the party, or you haven't
asked anybody else, that you know of, to return to the party — A. No ; no.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Did you ever ask anyone who wasn't a member of the party to i)ecome
a member? — A. Well, I might have said that I believed in certain things that
I believe in, that I have admitted to you I believe in, and asked them to
believe in it, too.
Mr. Han.son. That would be believing in the party, wouldn't it?
Miss Reed. No.
Q. You couldn't just ask them to believe in certain excerpts of this doctrine? —
A. No.
Mr. Schmidt. Off the record.
8682 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Waldman. May I ask just one question?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes. For the record.
By Mr. Waldman :
Q. Do you know David Mapes — M-a-p-e-s? — A. No; I don't know any David
Mapes.
Q. Do you know any "Mapes" at all?— A. There is a Mapes that works
up in the Bureau.
Q. Where does he work?— A. At 342.
Q. That's 342 Madison?— A. But it isn't David.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. This is your picture? — A. Yes; it is. May I ask where you got it?
Q. Mr. Hanson got that. Ifs an enlargement of a picture? — A. I know the
original very well.
Q. Yes? But that's you, isn't it?— A. Well, what do you think?
Q. I know. I'm asking you. — A. (No response.)
Q. It's you? — A. Why certainly it's me.
Q. All right.
Miss Reed. May I ask where you got it?
Mr. Hanson. I wouldn't know.
Miss Reed. May I ask this question, too? Do they go to people's homes with
a badge and say they are an investigator for the Department of Labor?
Mr. Hanson. "They have done that a number of times.
Miss Reed. They have badges ; I mean, to warrant that?
Mr. Hanson. All inspectors have badges, in the Labor Department.
Miss Reed. On this sort of a private hearing case, you have investigators
with badges going around investigating? Is that so?
Mr. Hanson. That's true. Naturally, we've got to have some means of identi-
fication, but they also know the proper use of a badge. They are all instructed
in the proper use of a badge. They don't just use the badge for any
Miss Reed. I was interested because a friend of mine was approached and
when he asked the man's name he said Waldman, and I associated it right
away.
Mr. Hanson. No ; I'm sure, we can account for all our men and our badges.
Miss Reed. I think if he has, you'd better investigate it.
Mr. Hanson. Well, I'm sure
Miss Reed. Is Woltman one of your investigators?
Mr. Schmidt. He has been the man on the World-Telegram.
Miss Reed. I know, that's why I thought
Mr. Hanson. We don't have him.
Miss Reed (continuing). I thought you ought to know something about him
assuming that role.
Mr. Hanson. We can account for all the badges. Miss Reed.
Mr. Schmidt. Would that person be willing to testify against this fellow?
Miss Reed. Sure.
Mr. Schmidt. What's the person's name?
Miss Reed. The name is John Davis.
Mr. Schmidt. I'd very much like to go to the bottom of this, because, if
anybody from the World-Telegram is passing himself off as an investigator
Mr. Hanson. Miss Reed says he has a badge and gave his name as John
Davis.
Miss Reed. No ; excuse me. He gave the name as Waldman.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, what about John Davis? What's his address?
Miss Reed. It's One Hundred and Second Street. He's on the old-age pension.
He's a handicapped man.
Mr. Hanson. I see.
Miss Reed. Do you know if he was approached, Mr. Hanson?
Mr. Hanson. That. I don't know. I have a sheath of names here, Miss Reed.
Miss Reed. I imagine. I have been around New York a long time.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Miss Reed, if we sent somebody to see this Davis, might we use your name,
or is it better not to? — A. Oh, certainly. He was the one that told me that
this thing had happened; did I know anybody named Waldman, and I said,
"Well, if it's Waldman, he's misusing his authority."
Q. Do you think he'd recognize the person? — A. Oh, I'm sure ; yes.
Q. Because I have met Woltman already. — A. I haven't.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8683
Q. 1 met him some mouths ago, whou Miss Miller was appointed.
Mr. Hanson. Excuse me, just a moment. I asked if you knew Conrad Jones.
He was then liaison officer of the N. M. U., handling relief cases. Now, do you
know a man by the name of Kelly, who fulfills a similar position?
Miss Rkkd. jS'o ; I don't know him. I know when the matter of getting jobs
for the seamen, when they didn't have any unemployment insurance and the
fight went on in Washington about it. I know the State Department set up
some kind of arrangement to get them jobs, but I don't know — I know Kelly
was working in one of our offices, there was a picture of him in the papers
as working in the State employment office as a representative of the seamen.
Wasn't that right?
Mr. Hanson. I didn't understand him to be in the employ of the department.
Miss Reed. Well, he was just working as their representative.
Mr. Hanson. As the Union's?
Miss Reed. Yes ; but seated in the offices of the State employment, I think at
79 Madison. I'm not siu'e.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. Do you know Robert Meers? — A. No.
Q. Or Marty Gamier? — A. No. Are we going to continue?
Mr. Waldmvn. One more name. Do you know A. I. Van Dyne?
Miss Reed. I have seen the name in print, too ; I know the name.
Mr. WAiJ)iiAN. You don't know her personally?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Schmidt. All right. We'll recess now for lunch. We'll resume at about
2 o'clock.
(At 12: 15 o'clock Deputy Commissioner Schmidt declared a recess for lunch.)
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Miss Reed, I show you a copy of a publication called the Active File, and I
a.sk you whether you have ever seen that or similar copies before? — A. I remember
seeing copies of the Active File when it came out. I don't happen to remember
this particular cover.
Q. I'll show you another copy of the Active File and ask you whether you have
ever seen that issue, or similar issues, of the Active File before? — A. Well, as I
said before, I i-emember seeing them as they came out. I don't know if I saw
them all or just a few of them, but I think I saw them — everybody that I know
received them in the mail.
Q. You received your copies in the mail, did you? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you have anything to do with preparing any part of that A. No.
Q. (Continuing). Active Pile? — A. No.
Q. Do you know who were the authors and editors of the Active File at auv
time?— A. No.
Q. Do you know how the Active File was distributed in general? — A. Only
through the mail, I believe, and I think in some offices they put it on the desks,
but I don't remember exactly.
Q. And do you have any idea how the mailing list was obtained or prepared? —
A. No : I don't, definitely.
Q. Did you know a man named Homer Brooks? Homer Brooks? — A. That
name is not familiar.
Q. Did you ever visit Soviet Russia in company with your mother, Mrs. Fer-
nanda Reed? — A. No.
Q. Dn you know David Wahl — W-a-h-1? — A. Yes, I know him.
Q. Who is David Wahl? — A. Well. I used to know him — I haven't seen him
for a long time. He's a library worker.
Q. A library worker? — A. He worked in the Public Library.
Q. Where did he work? — A. In the Public Library in New York.
Q. Do you know whether he was a Communist? — A. No.
Q. You don't know?— A. No.
By Mr. Hanson :
Q. What's the name of that man you were so bitter about this morning —
MacQuiston? — A. You mentioned MacQui.ston this morning.
Q. That's the man you were so bitter al>out? — A. Well, if you call it that.
Q. I mean, that's the man you said, aside from all the others, that you didn't
like, that you never wanted to see him again ; is that right? — A. Yes.
Q. How did you get to know that man? — A. I told you before, I met him in
the strike, during the strike season, which went on for about 4 or 5 months.
85§4 un-amp:rican propaganda activities
I don't recal] where I first met him. I know him as a name, as part of that
group that I met at tliat time in the strike situation.
Q. I mean, in what way were you so closely associated with him that you
could become so bitter? — A. I became bitter l)ecause I know the circumstances
around which he was fired from his own union, and for that reason — it's nothing
personal about me, at all.
Q. Was he a known Communist? — A. I know he had once been called a
Communist, and been expelled from the Communist Party, but I don't know his
status as of any date or other, and I don't know what he is today.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. When you say "his status'' what are you referring to? — A. I know it
was
Q. (Contintiing.) His registration with the party as a member, with dues
paid, and so forth? — A. No, no. I know he was called a Communist and his
being suspended from the union was public information. More than that I don't
know.
Q. Well, of course, you know A. And, I know he was expelled from the
union.
Q. (Continuing.) The Communist Party, as you know, has a constitution and
bylaws, and article 3, section 2 defines a party member as "One who accepts the
party program, attends the regular meetings of the membership branch of his
place of work, or his territory or trade, who pays dues regularly, and is active in
party work." Now, according to that definition, you have, I believe, denied that
you were a party member? — A. Yes.
Q. And you say you were never at any time in your life a party member, accord-
ing to that definition; isn't that right? — A. Yes.
Q. Now, when you deny knowing much about whether so-and-so was a party
member — for example, MacQuistion — is that what you have in mind? — A. No;
it isn't. I remember hearing that he was expelled from the Communist Party,
and that I believe it was for drinking. I'm not absolutely sure. Then, the things
that he did in his union which warranted his being expelled for 99 years
By Mr. Hanson:
Q. What union was that? — A. The National Maritime.
Q. And what was your interest in the National Maritime Union? — A. Well
Q. I mean that you shotild grow so embittered over something he did to the
union? — A. Well, he has proved himself, as I have told you — before — this morn-
ing— as I told you, I didn't know the circumstances about the — slaying in New
Orleans, but he was accused of that. And, to my knowledge, was convicted of
the slaying of a young organizer.
Q. Organizer of what? — A. The National Maritime Union; and then he gave
up all kinds of information to the Dies committee, I believe.
Q. On what? — A. Yott know, they had a great deal of trouble in that union.
Q. But the thing I can understand A. He was very much involved with
them, and I don't know the circumstances, but I know he has a very bad name,
and was expelled from the union for 99 years, after a membership trial.
Q. But what interest is there, Miss Reed, that makes you so embittered, because
he was expelled from a ttnion that you have no interest in, or at least — —A. No ;
I never said I had no interest in the National Maritime.
Q. Then, do you have an interest in the National Maritime Union? — A. I do
have.
Q. And to what extent is that interest? — A. I think it's a very good union.
I have helped in the strike struggle, and so I have known a lot about it from
its birth, and naturally I'm interested in it as a labor union — as my own
union, as any union that has done a good job of organizing the unorganized
workers in the trade.
Mr. Owens. Is that a C. I. O. union?
Miss Reed. Yes; it is C. I. O.
Q. Is it also true then, because of Ted Lewis being associated with that
union — isn't that a possible reason why you took so much of an interest in
that particular union? I mean you can't go around fostering all tmions, be-
cause they do a good job. — A. No; but I happened to he very much interested
in this. I knew people personally in it and believed in theiii and I think it'.-
quite plain that I have always been interested in it since it was born. I
still am.
UN-AMEUICAX rUOrAGANDA ACT1VHIES 8685
By Mr. St hmidt :
Q. Have yoii at any time attended the workers' schools, any of their schools
in the United States? — A. No.
Q. None of these schools conducted in the United States under the auspices of
the Communist Party? — A. I think I took a course in Russian, just before I went
to Russia in VXM there.
Q. \Vh«Me did you take that course, at Thirteenth Street? — A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you take any worker's courses in the Lenin Institute or any other
school in Russia? — A. No.
Q. Nt»t even in the evenings? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever explain or teach the ma.'fs policies of the party, or policies
of socialism to any persons or groups? — A. No ; never had classes.
Q. Did you accept the party program in its entirety? — A. No.
Q. Have you ever at any time been active in the party work? — A. You
mean ■
Q. (Continuing.) Even though yoii were not a member of the party? Have
you at any time? — A. You asked me this morning if I was a member of the
I. L. D.. and of the League Against War and Fascism. If I have been inter-
ested in left-wing organizations, and been in a small way a part of them,
I have always given most of my time and energy to my union.
Q. Have you ever signed any pledges to remain true to the principles of the
Ccmuininist Party, to maintain its unity of purpose, and action, and to work
to the best of your ability to fulfill its program? — A. No.
Q. At no time?— A. No.
Q. Under the name of Nancy Reed? Or any other name? — A. No.
Q. Do you belong to the I. W. O. ? — A. Yes.
Q. Just the mortuary A. I have the sickness, the doctor — medical service
aloTig with it.
Q. When did you join the I. W. O.? — A. I think it's about 5 years that I have
been a member.
Mr. "Waidman. Do you know anyone in the Workmen's Circle?
Miss Ree3>. No.
Mr. AValdman. Nothing about the Workmen's Circle?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Waxdman. It's similar to the International Worker's Order, except that
it's fostered by the right-wingers, as compared to the I. W. O., which is fostered
by the left-wingers, and is a Communist front.
Q. You have at no time ever attempted to establish a branch or fraction in
the N. M. U.? I don't remember whether I asked you that. — A. You didn't
ask me. but I have not.
Q. You were never used as a delegate to a State convention of the Communist
Party'?— A. No.
Q. When you visited Russia, did you take with you a transfer card, signed
by any (fffit-ial of rhe Communist Party, to your knowledge? — A. No, Mr. Schmidt.
I wasn't a memlter. W^hy should I take a transfer card?
Q. Well, is a transfer card necessarily given only to a member? — A. I don't
know. I'm sure.
Mr. Waldman. Could anybody get a job? If I had gone there, would they
have given me a job?
Miss lit'sii). If you qualified, yes; Mr. Waldman.
Mr. Waldman. They would, if I was qualified?
Miss Reed. Yes.
Mr. Owens. You mean independent of whether you are a Communist?
Miss Rkkd. This came up this morning; I think you weren't here. That story
in the .Tournal simply isn't true.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. I'm going to read to you a ([uestion that Stalin put to the American delega-
tion of the Communist Party on May 14, 1920. which I'll ask you to answer to the
b<\st of your ability : "Can you picture a Connnunist, not a paper Communist but a
real Communist, avowing loyalty to the Comintern, and at the same time refusing
to accei)t ros])onsil)ility for carrying out tlie decisions of the Comintern?"
Do you know enough about conmiunism to essay an answer to that question? —
A. Would you mind repeating it?
Q. Here it is, it's written there, underlined in red — Stalin's speeches.
(At this point the subject piece was handed to the witness for perusaL)
8686 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
A. How did you phrase your question, Mr. Schmidt?
Q. I said I was going to put to you the question which Stalin asks there, and
ask you to answer it to the best of your ability. — ^A. No.
Q. This pamphlet [indicating], published by the International Publishers, on
the subject of political education, entitled "The Communist Party," says, on page
26 : "The Communist Party must put the conquest of the proletarian dictatorship
as their first and most immediate task." Now, would you put the conquest of the
proletarian dictatorship as one of your first and most immediate aims, in political
or social action?— A. No, Mr. Schmidt. May I ask a question?
Q. Yes. — A. Is it permissible to have a copy of that written statement?
Q. Well, I'll think about it. It might be permissible in the end.— A. All right.
Q. "When I spoke to you on June 3 in my oflice you said to me, among other
things, if you belonged to a cell or a fraction you would automatically belong to
the Communist Party. I asked you this question, that is to say, you never were —
you are not now a member of the Communist Party, and you never belonged to
any fraction of the Communist Party?— A. Yes.
Q. And your answer was that if you belonged to a cell or fraction you would
automatically belong to the Communist Party. Is that the correct answer?—
A. I (Miss Reed is handed a copy of the transcription of her testimony of June 3
to read)— that should be modified, I should say, to mean- though you are referring,
of course, to the Communist Party — that if you belong to a cell or a fraction
thereof as a member, as a duly authorized member, I suppose you'd understand
that; yes. Is there anything contradictory there, now?
Q. No; you didn't say anything contradictory. I just wanted to find out
whether that was the correct statement, according to your view, and then 1
wanted to ask you how you knew that was true?— A. Well, you forget that
I have been around the left-wing movement— as I said before — for several
years, and have a sister who worked in the Comintern, and have a mother
who has been interested in all these things, and what information 1 have about
the left-wing movement has been absorbed over a long period of time, in
that way. I have known Communists, people who are called Communists,
associated with left-wingers, as well as a very great variety of opinions.
Q. In the course of picking up that kind of information about the organ-
ization of the Communist Party, didn't you also pick up from Communists and
from left-wingers some of the more basic doctrines of the Communist Party, and
of the Comintern? — A. Some of the beliefs of the Communist Party action
I have certainly learned through my association, and as I have told you before,
I do agree very heartily wnth some of them, Mi-. Schmidt. I don't accept
them all.
Q. Well, take for example the basic one on the dictatorship of the prole-
tariat. Do you have some notion of what that means? — A. Yes; I have a
notion of what that means.
Q. You know what it means, I mean, in Communist circles? — A. What it
means, you mean, in the Soviet Union?
Q. That's right. — A. Well, when you work there and hear about it, you
absorb a certain amount of information, but it isn't first — I mean, it isn't —
it isn't definite. I'm not, as I told you once before, a well-read Marxist by
any means, and my interpretation of it sounds very much like a lay person's
point of view. That's what it is. I know we went into some discussion about
it before, and I didn't have really half as well-grounded information about it
as you apparently did, and I wasn't prepared to go into a long discussion of it.
Q. Well, look. In the course of your peregrinations with Communists or
Sovet Russia, didn't you have pointed out to you the place which revolutionai'y
tactics have in the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat"? —
A. No ; my job was not of any political nature at all, you know.
Q. I understand that. But, I'm now talking about the things you might
have picked up, by osmosis, from your surroundings. Didn't yott have it pointed
out to you, for example, that there was a vast difference between the Social
Democrats and the Reformists on the one hand, and the Leuin-Marxists on
the other? — A. No; I did not have that pointed out.
Q. Have you ever heard the phrase "Social Democracy" or "Social
A. Yes.
Q. What does that mean? — A. Not very much.
Q. Well, doesn't it mean, in Communist circles, that group which relies on
parliamentarism as a means to achieve the preliminary stage of communism,
which is socialism? — A. I can't say — I don't know, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Ha.sn't it been pointed out to you that that is the point on which the
Marx-Leninists differ from the Social Democrats, precisely that? That the
UN-AMBKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8687
Maix-Loninists talk about the inevitaliility and the necessity for the use of
force and unhiwful means for the initial achievement of the dictatorship of
the proiotarlat, as a prelude to the — to both socialism and communism? — A.
No ; it hasn't.
Q. You have heard of the Trotzkyites? — ^A. Yes.
Q. Now, you know enough about communism and about Soviet Russia to
know that the Trotzkyites were never — certainly not in recent years — regarded
with high favor by the present regime in Russia, or by the Communist Party
in the United States? Isn't that so'/— A. I believe so.
Q. Do you know what was the basis of the difference? — A. I think we went
into it a little the last time.
Q. I don't think so, not on Trotzky. — A. Well, perhaps it was in my conver-
sation with Mis.s P.uchanan. I know oidy there is a difference on the basis
of world revolution, or revolution in one country or another. That was my
understanding.
Q. Well, that's precisely what I'm getting at. In other words, you indicated,
did you not, th.it revolution is necessary for both, only for the Trotzkyites
world rev(»lution was the prerequisite, whereas to the Marx-Leninists of the
Sralin .school, it was revolutit)n only as indicated by the zigzag course of the
weake.st link? — A. Well, this is your interpretation, and I told you all I know
about it, and if you interpret it that way that should stand as your interpreta-
tion, not mine, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. I wanted to know what your interpretation of the revolution was. —
A. I don't know.
Q. You used it a a moment ago, when you said A. I know the theory
l>etween the Trotzkyism and the other ism is ba.sed on the difference between
world revolution, all over the place, and revolution in one country. That's as
far as my understanding goes of the difference between the two.
Q. Now, what's your understanding of revolution, as used in either or both
of those theories"/ — A. Well, again it goes into a long discussion, doesn't it?
Q. I don't think it's too long, necessarily. You can make it short. — A. Well,
I'm afraid I can't make it short.
Q. Well, then, make it long — A. Well, is it — I mean I'm — rather, I've taken
this information out of — from hearsay, and it means to rue — activity of a
revolutionary nature in one counti-y at a time, versus revolutionary activity
all over the world at the same time. Now, more than that I don't know.
Q. Have you ever heard Communists talk about the type of revolution that
would convert the so-called imperialist war into a civil war? — A. No ; I don't
believe I have. Isn't it perfectly possible for a person to have heard — It
imzzled me for a long time about what the Trotskyites wanted — I asked, and
that was my — the explanation. I don't remember who I asked, but that was as
far as it went in my own thinking, and that was what I carried in my mind.
Q. Make no mistake, I'm not blaming you for knowing that, or I should
have t() blame myself too. I have no blame for anybody wanting to study these
matters. I'm oft" that subject for a moment. — A. I'm not worried about know-
ing it — it's what I have come to understand as what it means. But you asked,
now, what's my idea of revolution. That goes on and on and on. I'm not
prepared to discuss it because I don't know.
Q. Well, have you heard the phrase "imperialist war" discussed among Com-
munists. Do you have any understanding what the Communists mean by the
s(j-called iniperialist war"/ — A. I have heard the phrase, Mr. Schmidt, but I
can't go into an explanation of it.
Q. Would the war that Russia is fighting to keep the Nazis out of Russia be
considered — in your opinion — an imperialist war by the Soviets".'' — A. I don't know.
Q. If the Comintern asked the comrades in the United States and other
places in the world to ilo everything they could to attempt to convert any
capitalist war into a civil war, would you consider that illegal? — A. Illegal for
them to — since they are not
Q. To convert a capitalist war into a civil war? — A. Your question was if
they asked them? Would it bt> — would it be illegal for them to ask? For them
to do it, when you yourself say that, or have said, there isn't a connection any
longer between the Russian Communists and the American Communists?
Q. When did I say that? — A. I understood you to say that in the last meet-
ing we had.
Q. I don't think I'd say that, but if I did I certainly didn't mean to, because
from my own point of view — if you want it — I think there is a very definite
vlistinction — I mean connection — between the Communists, between Communism
62626 il — vol. 14 H4
g588 UN-AMEUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
all over the world, whether it's the C. P., U. S. A., or C. P., U. S. S. R., that is to
say, communism in Russia or communism here, and the link that connects them
is the Third International. — A. Well, I thought you told me yourself, and I'd
like to go back to perhaps find it — that you said, "You know, don't you, that
the Third International is now separated from the Communist Party of Amer-
ica"? Isn't that right?
Q. Oh, I think you're referring to the change in the masthead of the Daily
Worker, for example? — A. No; I thought it was just a statement you made.
Q. No. Originally, of course, the constitution of the Third International, the
program of the Third International required that they be identified as the
Communist Party of the United States, a section of the Third Counuunist Inter-
national. That was a requirement under the program and under the formal
get-up.— A. Yes.
Q. Now, of course, afterwards they were less outspoken about that connection.
No question about it. That is to say, they were less outspoken in the sense
that they didn't advertise that it was a section of the Third InternationaL—
A. Are you informed that it is? I don't know.
Q. Certainly. — A. I don't know.
Q. The reason I'm asking you that is because you indicated tliat I had saic*
something. — A. Then that, perhaps, is what I'm referring to.
Q. You are informed, are you that thei'e is a real distinction between the Soviet
Party in Russia and the Communist International'/ — A. Tliat was my under-
standing.
Q. Well, of course, there is this much of a distinction. That the Soviet Party
is the particular party t)f Soviet Russia, dealing in many cases with peculiarly
Russian problems, whereas the Third International is the party that is the organ-
ization that combines into one unity of a world congress all of the various sections
or Comnuinist Parties in the whole world. And, of course, that A. I thought
that the discussion we had the last time that it was stated they had severed
connections. Now
Q. As a matter of fact, isn't Joseph Stalin today the head of the Political Secre-
tariat of the Third International? That's his position.— A. Is it? Well, I
don't
Q. And the political secretariat is the governing body of the presidium, which
is, in turn, the governing body of the E. C. C. I. — the Executive Council cf the
Communist International — and that body is responsible directly to the world
congress. However, it is not necessary to go into that any further.
Mr. Owens. Are these meetings of fractions of the Communist Party — can
visitors attend these meetings? That is, uoumembers?
Miss Reied. Yes ; I believe they can.
Q. On invitation? — A. On invitation; yes.
Q. That would be on the invitation of the leading member in the fraction? —
A. I don't know. I think it would be — friends that they wanted to interest.
Q. You did say before, I think, that you might have, altlu»ugh you weren't
sure, you were invited to attend a branch meeting or a fraction meeting? You
don't remember where that was, whether it was a branch or fraction? — A. No;
I don't. I was trying to think after that, where it was held.
Q. You don't remember how long ago that was? — A. No ; it wiis a long time
ago, though.
Mr. Owens. Any of these meetings you did attend, you attended as an invited
guest and not as a member of the Communist Party?
Miss Reed. No.
Q. It wasn't a fraction of the Communist Party in the N. M. U., was it? —
A. No ; is wasn't, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. You're sure of that much? — A. (No response.)
Mr. Hanson. Did your interest in the N. i\I. U. extend to the point of going
down to the water front and distributing circulars?
INIiss Reed. I never did, Mr. Hanson. I was mostly interested in the food
kitchen they had to organize for feeding the strikers.
Mr. Owens. You said that there were certain teachings of the Communist
Party that you opposed. Now, are you in a position to tell lis what some of
those teachings are, that you are opposed to?
Miss Reed. I'd perhaps be able to think them up at home and write them
for you.
Q. One of them would be the use of unlawful means, wouldn't it? — A. Right.
Q. Another would be the use of force or violence to attain political and
.social ends? — A. Right.
UN-AMERICAN I'KOl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8689
Q. Thorofore, you would reject the Commuuist ideologies, ;uul (Joinnuiuist
(ioctrincs, and decisions, and thesis, and programs insofar as tiiey relied upon
the use of uidawful means, or the use of force or violence V — A. That's right,
Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Do you know Lincoln Rothschild? — A. Lincoln Rothschild V The name I
don't know — the first name. I know a Mr. Rothschild.
Mr. W.\Li)M.\N. Diirothy Rehm's husband.
Mi.ss Rked. Oh. I have met him.
C^ l>o you know if he is a Comnumist? — A. No; I have .iust met him once.
I lion't know.
Q. I'.efore you raised a (piestion about a certain name. Mapes — is itV
Mr. Waldman. David Mapes, M-a-p-e-s.
Q. Or Spencer Mapes? — A. I don't know David Mapes.
Q. Do you know a Spencer? — A. He works in the division.
Q. Is he a Communist? — A. Not to my knowledge. I've never even heard
him called one.
By Mr. Hanson :
Q. I questioned you this morning. Miss Reed, witli respect to the name of
Anne McLoughlin. Did you know anybody that went by that name? — A. I
think I did know a girl, way back; yes. I mean the name was familiar to me.
Q. Who was she? I tliought if you had time to refresh your memory — — A.
I remember. That was. a girl who received mail sometimes at my house, because
her husband was following her and she didn't want him to find it out and I
think that was the mime. It's a long time ago, and it lasted only for a very
short time. And, as far as knowing her or where she is now, or anything like
that — -
Q. About how loug ago was that? — A. I think it was G years ago, at least.
Q. Did slie work with the division?— A. No.
Q. Was she a Communist? — A. I don't know. I never asked. It was a
matter of domestic difficulty.
Q. You must have known something about her background, because you
dou't just take anybody into your house. — A. I met her through somebody.
1 remember the iucideut. I'll have to check and see if it was that exact uame.
I don't remember.
Q. How did she spell it? Did she si>elL it A-n-n, or A-n-n-e? — A. I don't
know. I don't even know that.
Q. You never heard of her in connection with the conmuuiistic activities? — A.
No.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. The Daily Worker expresses the authentic Commuuist view of the Central
Committee, doesn't it? — A. That's a question, I think, you asked me before.
Q. Not that question exactly; no. — A. No? Well, you mean under the new
reorganization?
Q. Both before and aftei- the new reorganization. — A. I think it did before.
But now I'm not prepared to state. It's — it's a new organization, and they have
a new board.
Q. Have you often personally differed with the party line that was reflected
by the Daily Worker? — A. Well, I certainly haven't agreed with anything and
everything I have ever seen in it. definitely. But again, whether it was the
Q. I mean editorially? — A. I don't always get to read those, either. I cer-
tainly know I have seen things in it that I don't agree with, at all.
Q. Do you know through what outfit Dorothy Ryder made her arrangeenmts
to go to Europe? Was it Amtorg? — A. I don't think Amtorg arranged trips,
did they? I don't think they ever did.
Q. What outfit did you make your own arrangements thntugh? — A. I went
rlirough the World Tourist.
Q. What's that?— A. The World Tourist.
Q. Is that the same as Intourist? — A. No; I think it was just a travel bureau
called the World Tourist. I think. Intourist doesn't handle — I don't know
whether it handled actual trips there or not.
Q. Well, v.iiat's the address of World Tourist?— A. I think it's out of business
now, Mr. Scihniidt. It used to be in the Flatiron Building.
Q. In the F'latiron Building? And you made all of your trips through the
World ToTirist?— A. Well, I made five, and I can't recjill if I made all .)f them
through there, but I know some of them were.
3590 un-a:merican propaganda activities
Q. Do you remember whether you made the last two through World Tourist? —
A. I think one — the one in 1935. I'm sure I did, because I remember the trans-
action. I don't remember about 1937.
Q. And the one before that, the one before 1935? — A. Offhand, I'd have to
look it up.
Q. Do you have records of the outfits through whom? — A. I have my passports,
that still might have that on them.
Q. Do you still have your passport for each of those trips? — A. Yes. Well,
I have never thrown away a passport, so I imagine it covers them.
Q. And, in each case, the application through World Tourist or other travel
agency was made by you under the name of Nancy Reed? — A. Right.
Q. And the passport was issued to you under the name of Nancy Reed? —
A. Right.
Q. And, Dorothy Ryder? Do you know whether she made her arrangements
through World Tourist? — A. No, I don't remember, Mr. Schmidt.
Q. Do you know whether she made her application under the name of Dorothy
Ryder, or not? — A. I don't know, but I believe so.
Mr. Schmidt. I don't have anything else.
By Mr. Owens :
Q. In connection with your position with the division of placement and
unemployment insurance. Miss Reed, are you in a position to place applicants
for employment in defense industries? — A. Well, hardly, Mr. Owens. I have
been in the service of the division placing handicapped applicants ever since
I first joined the service in June of 1935. until this last December, when I have
been working in the women's industrial Division — jobs with packers of cloth-
ing— and peanuts — packing and the needle trade — the operations are, primarily.
Q. You wouldn't say you are in a position to place any applicants in defense
industries? — A. No ; not by any stretch of the imagination.
Mr. Waldman. Did you ever have any meetings at your home, of Communist
groups?
Miss Reed. No.
Mr. Waldman. At your home, at Sixteenth Street?
Miss Reed. No. I have had a good many social parties there, because I
happen to have a very large open apartment, and I have had socials there.
Mr. Waldman. Solely for your friends?
Miss Reed. Particularly for raising money for the food kitchens, etc., etc.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Miss Reed, on the whole, your knowledge of communism as to its tactics,
is too limited to enable you to say with certainty whether a Communist favors
subversive means — is that the position you take? — A. Yes.
Q. So that if j'ou — if a person, certain persons presented themselves to you,
whether as Communists or as others, for placement, you wouldn't have any
method of eliminating them on the basis of subversive activity. — A. No ; I don't
believe in it, Mr. Schmidt. I have placed hundreds of people in my life, in
my work, and I have not gone into that question at all. I have really estab-
lished— I hope it's somewhere in my record — professional standards, placing
people according to their qualifications for the job only.
Q. Does the address 141 East Twenty-ninth Street mean anything to you?—
A. Well, I think that used to be the Communist Party headquarters. It doesn't
any more. I just happened to know there was a bookshop there that I went
to visit about some books recently, and that's what it is.
Mr. Hanson. Do you know who compiles that paper [indicating a copy of the
Active File] ?
Miss Reed. No, I don't, Mr. Hanson.
Mr. Hanson. Did you ever contribute anything to it?
Miss Reed. No, I didn't.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. Did you, by any chance, attend the twentieth anniversary of the Com-
munist International, and the fifteenth anniversary of the Daily Worker, that is
advertised there. — ^A. At Madison Square Garden? Well, as I told you this
morning, I remembered going to a big mass meeting, that was colorful, and I
think it was part of the national convention of the Communist Party in Madison
Square Garden. I have no recollection of this one at all [copy of the Active File
has been handed to the witness]. That was what year? 1939, I don't recall it.
UN-AMERICAN PKOL'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8691
Mr. Waldman. Are you doing any active work in this T. W. U. tlireatened
strike?
Miss llr.iD. No. Mr. Waldman.
Q. That's the answer. — A. May I ask you what you mean hy "active work"?
Q. The same kind of work you were doing with the National Maritime
Union. — A. No, I'm not.
Q. This is the application. I believe, that you signed for your civil service —
or this is at least a copy of it.
Mr. Waldman. That's a copy.
(The document is handed to the witne.ss).
Q. (Continuing.) Is there any error, that you know of, on that application? —
A. This is apparently when I applied for the employment manager's examina-
tion, because it says' "'Exact title and number of examination desired."
Q. That's right. '
A. Examination for employment manager. I did take an examination for that
at one time.
Mr. Hanson. Isn't that a copy of your original application?
Miss Kkkd. No; this isn't a copy of my application. This is for a promo-
tional examinaticm. It says here "for employment manager."
Mr. Owens. I imagine the experience is on the other side.
Mr. Waldman. On the other side.
(The witness is handed the document, which she examines.)
Miss Reed. Yes.
Mr. Owens. Is there a question there — "Give your experience for the past
3 years," or something like that? Here's the question, here. Describe under
the headings given below any employment or occupation you have ever had
which in your opinion tends to qualify you for the position sought, and as far
as possible, any other employment or occupation you have had, including war
service. Give Information requested under each heading, being careful to show
definitely whether or not your training and experience meet the requirements
for the position for which you are making application. Qualifications stated
by candidates are subject to verification. Use additional sheets of paper and
attach them as directed at the end of this if needed to complete your experi-
ence record — That is, give the positions that are similar to the one for which
you are applying, and as far as possible, every other employment or occupation
you have had. I assume this is being introduced in connection with your
statement this morning that there was some work Miss Reed did while in
Russia that she did not account for in this application blank.
By Mr. Schmidt :
Q. You have nothing to add to what you said before on that? — A. Yes. I
might add that I spent a year in California once, before even I started employ-
ment work, and I had 17 different jobs there.
Q. Seventeen? — A. Yes. I worked in a garage, as a truck driver. I worked
on cow farms as milk hand. I can't quite enumerate all the different kinds
that I have had, and when I did the work in Soviet Russia, for 0V2 months,
as I said this morning, I was doing a little typing and proofreading stuff. I'm
trying to think of how long, exactly, I was in the Commissariat of Labor, but
I know I went there about February, and before the 1st of May the job
was completed, so it was, we'll say, 2 months at the very most. And entirely
different standards and all of work. And then I went to a little newspaper
business, of editing for 1 mouth — or cheeking over correspondence it really was,
and I certainly don't see that, that scraps of a little here and a little there
would indicate that I'm better qualified for an employment manager, and, as
I say, there wasn't very much room on the sheet, except for the things that
really led up to my job, and I didn't put it in there, and I think if I had it
to do over again I'd eliminate it also, because I don't think it has any relative
weight.
Q. To get back. Miss Reed, to this statement in the Journal of June 19. 1941,
I particularly resented it when I saw it, because I wanted it understood that
this was a private hearing, and I was not handing anything to the newspapers,
and this certainly looked as if somebody in the department had handed some-
thing to the newspapers. — A. Yes.
Q. Now, I know that is not so. Is there any person that might have handed
this out, that you know of, might give us a lead on investigating? — A. No.
It's not signed. I have no other way of knowing who did it, other than
8692 UN-AMERICAN PROrAOANDA ACTIVITIES
possibly Howard Rnshmore. He's assigned to this sort of tiling in New York
City. I have seen his name.
Q. Is he a reporter on this paper? — A. Yes; he is.
Q. And he is the one, as I recall it, who wrote the article in the Daily Worker,
on Gone With the Wind?— A. Yes.
Q. And he got into some scrape with the control commission on that, or
something? — A. Well, I don't know the story.
Q. I don't know the details, but he is an ex-Communist? — A. I met him at
a party once and I knew he came to my office, before he was laid off from this
paper, and apparently wanted some more free-lance work. He walked in my
office, sat down and' waited— I had to keep him waiting approximately an
hour — and asked me if I could help him get a newspaper job and I said I
don't handle newspaper jobs, the place to apply is here, and here's the address.
Now, he called my office about February — he didn't do it, a man that works
with him called up Miss Kennedy and asked what date I was appointed, and
then calle<l me on the 'phone in the office and said. "Is it true your mother is
a part owner of the Daily Worker?" — and I said, "I'm very busy on my job
and I'm not answering any questions." He told me he was from the Hearst
Press— "and I'm not answering questions of that nature," and he said, "Well,
here's my 'phone number, and call me back" — and gave his name as, I think,
Bennett or something like that, and said "if I'm out ask for Rushmore." Then
I recollected that Howard Rushmore had been in some disrepnte with the
Daily Worker, and I flgure<l that that is, perhaps, one of his doings. Now,
on tiie other hand, I know of no other way by which any reports on that foul
sheet — I don't know any other way it could have gotten there, except that I
think he and Woltman know each other personally.
Q. I think that explains it.
Mr. Owens. How long did you say you worked in Russia?
Miss Reed. I worked totally from September or October to about — the begin-
ning of October until the summer, when I went on vacation. I had the longest
one with the publishing house as a typist or proof i-eader. and about 2 months,
approximately in this Commissariat of Labor, and tdiout a month for the
Mr. Owens. You only had 2 months there which in any way had to do
with this application?
Miss Reed. Yes ; only 2 months.
Mr. Owens. All the services on this application blank refer to, or cover,
pretty substantial periods. The first one covers 2 years, the next one TVi
months, the next one 11 months, the next 6V2 months, the next is 3 years and
II months, and the next one is a year and 7 months.
Mr. Schmidt. Yes.
By Mr. Schmidt:
Q. Well, have you any other statement to make?— A. I'd like to say that I
regret this whole thing exceedingly, Mr. Schmidt, and I feel as if I have been
pulled through a knothole. Maybe it's because I do need a vacation very badly.
I have been doing a lot of doubling up work in my office. It's been a very
strenuous few months for me, and I like my job exceedingly, and I have no
conscious about having misused my job or gone contrary to the Devahey law,
which I understand I was originally called in about.
Q. Well, Miss Reed, I'm sorry if you feel that you've been pulled through
a knothole. I certainly didn't feel that I pulled you through a knothole. As
I have told you before," I'm sorry that I had to get this kind of an assignment,
just as sorry as you are to have to go through with that kind of an assignment,
but I'm sure that if you have told us all the truth there is absolutely nothing
for you to worry about. So, that's all I can say. — A. All right.
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you. Miss Reed. Good afternoon.
Certified to be a true and correct copy of the transcript of minutes.
(Signed) Jane J. Denikb,
Senior Hearing Stenographer.
Transcribed July 3, 1941.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmiiicrham, did you find in your examina-
tion of these documents that Miss Reed had very close connections
with scores of prominent Communists, particularly in the United
States but also in other countries ?
UX-A.MEKICAX rROPACfANDA ACTH iriES 8693
Mr. Birmingham. 1 did.
Mr. Maithews. Did you find that Nancj^ Roed li:ul been engaged
in Coinnmnist activities in the United States outside of the city of
New York I
Mr. BnmTNOH.\:\r. I did.
Mr. Ma'ithp:ws. For exani2)]e. in North Carolina?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Oklahoma ?
Mr. Bir:\iingham. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Colorado?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Are there among tliese documents
Mr. Birmingham. And Habana, Cuba, you might add.
iSIr. Matthews. And Habana, Cuba?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Starnes. I don't want to interrupt you because I want you to
develop this chronologically, which you are doing, but will you be
able to identify some of the activities engaged in by Nancy Reed?
That is, specify what the activities were and who she was working
with, so we may have a clearer picture.
Mr. Matthews. The j:)urpose at the present time is to give a gen-
eral summary of what the documents, one by one, will reveal.
Mr. Starnes. All right.
Mr. INIatthews. Did you find in your examination of these docu-
ments, Mr. Birmingham, that Miss Nancy Reed had been receiving
reports concerning activities of a Communist nature from parts of
the United States far removed from New Yoi-k City?
Mr. Birmingha:h. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Reports such as would reasonably be presumed
to be sent to a very high and important functionary of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Birmingham. That is true.
Mr. Matthews. Did .you know whether or not Nancy Reed is or
has been married, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. I could never prove it, but it has been stated
that she was. There is some correspondence there to that effect.
Mr. Matthews. Did you find among these documents a passport
or passports which Nancy Reed had had made out to herself?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Ma'ithews. Do those passports reveal that Nancy Reed was
born at Dunstable, Mass., on May 5, 1899?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Do these passports show that Nancy Reed visited
the Soviet T^nion five times?
Mr. Birmingham. They do.
Mr. Starnes. During what period of time?
Mr. Bir:mingha:vi. From 1931 to 1933.
jVIr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, the passports wliich we will pro-
duce in evidence are the originals. The passports show the first visit
by Miss Reed under the name of Nancy Reed to the Soviet Union
in 1929. The second visit in 1930, the third visit, lasting more than
a year, in 1931 and 1932. The fourth visit in the year 1935 and the
fifth visit in 1937.
8694 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Did 5^ou find, Mr. Birmingham, that Nancy Reed had been em-
ployed by the Soviet Govermnent in the Soviet Union in 1931 and
1932 ?
Mr. Birmingham. I did ; and there are records to show it.
Mr. Matthews. Have you read the testimony which Miss Reed
gave before the Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Labor
for New York ?
Mr. Birmingham. No; not completely, I haven't.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Miss Reed testified
that she omitted from her application blank for employment in New
York the fact that she had been employed in the Soviet Union for a
period of almost a year ?
Mr. BiRMiNGHAar. I believe she did.
Mr. Matthews. That is, she omitted that information ?
Mr. Birmingham. She did.
Mr. Matthews. Did Miss Reed write certain articles concerning
her visit to the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Birmingham. She did.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a photostatic copy of a document, the
original of which is in the committee's possession, which is entitled
"My Year in Russia, 1932." Can you identify that as one of the
documents which 3^011 obtained from the eifects of Miss Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not that is in the hand-
writing of Nancy Reed as you have had occasion to check her hand-
writing on her passports and other documents ?
Mr. Birmingham. It looks the same.
Mr. Matthews. This is a poem entitled ''My Year in Russia, 1932."
It reads as follows :
I lived and I loved and I suffered ; I made some mistakes that were bad, but
I learned the proportion of my life to that of the mass and I am glad for I now
feel that I can be useful in the fight for the rule that is coming to pass, and
that then some day I may be a leader in the struggle of class against class.
I ask that that be received in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(The photostat referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 1.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham. I show you a photostatic copy
of a letter and ask you if you can identify that as one of the docu-
ments, the original of which is in the possession of the committee ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, this is a letter dated October 29,
1937, from the son of Mary Reed, Mary Reed being the sister of
Nancy Reed and residing in the Soviet Union with her son John,
George Copeland, former husband of Maiy Reed, was the father of
John, therefore, his name would ordinarily be John Copeland. This
letter to his father reads as follows :
Dear Dad: Please don't send me letters for ".Tohn Copeland" because in this
school people know me as "Reed." I just got this letter because nobody knew
John Copeland, but that's all right, I got the letter.
I don't know much about going to U. S. A.
I am learning to type.
I play football, the English kind. I like to play Chess very much, and I play
it good.
I don't want the funnies. I want Popular Science and the New Pioneer that
Nan —
UN-AMEUICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8695
which is a very frequent reference to Nanc}^ Reed in these docu-
ments—
will give you to send together to this school ; and if you can, you can send me
Popular Mechanics.
I can't use American money. I have no more time. Lots of love, Your son
John.
Mr. Matthews. I ask that be received in evidence.
Mr. St.\rnes. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 2.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, is this a photostatic copy of part
of one of the passports of Nancy Reed ?
Mr. Birmingham. That is a copy of the original.
Mr. Matthews. I ask this be marked as an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The passport referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 3.")
Mr. Matihews. And is this a photostat of another passport of
Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. This is a photostat of the original.
Mr. Matthews. And I ask this be received in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received as an exhibit.
(The passport referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 4.")
Mr. Matthews. Referring again to John Copeland, who wrote his
father that he ay anted to be known as John Reed in the Soviet Union,
I show you a letter from Mary Reed to her sister, Nancy. Can you
identify that as one of the documents which you obtained in this
collection?
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. In this letter from the mother of John Reed to his
aimt, or her sister, there is this reference to John :
Am enclosing a letter from John and may even send a wire, but I really don't
want you to put off your trip on, account of that! I tried to make John change
his plans, but his heart is so set on visiting his friend in the Ukraine that
nothing will move him.
I ask that that be received in evidence as one of the documents.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 5.")
Mr. Matthews. I show you some photostatic copies of an envelope
and ask you if you can identify that as a photostat of the originals
in the committee's possession.
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. This is an envelope which indicates that Nancy
Reed was in Leningrad in the IJ. S. S. R. and was addressed in care
of "Intourist" in 1937, and ask that be received in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The photostat referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 6.")
Mr. Matthews. Now, I
Mr. Starnes. Dr. Matthews, do you have any documentary proof
or oral testimony that you will offer showing what Nancy Reed's
purpose was in visiting the Soviet Union so many times?
8(596 UN-AMERICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I show you a photostatic copy
of a letter dated November 15, 1937, addressed to "Nan, darling," and
ask yon if you can identify that as one of the documents which you
obtained ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. This letter addressed to "Nan" says, in part:
I would be wori'iefl stiff about you — not hearing from you for so long — if
Mother B. had not had news of you through Herta.
Other documents in the collection, Mr. Chairman, indicate that
"Mother B." in tliis r^ference is Mother Bloor, an outstanding Com-
munist woman in the United States, and that the "Herta" to whom
reference is made here is Herta Ware, who is a daughter of Mother
Bloor through a former marriage to Ware.
The records indicate that Mother Bloor was once married to a cer-
tain Ware and had three children whose names were Ware — Herta
Ware; Hamilton Ware, who is now employed in Washington in the
Federal Government — I believe the secretary of the committee can
give you the details on that; and Hal Ware, who was employed in
the Department of Agriculture until 1935, when he was killed by a
streetcar in Washington.
So we have here one of the numerous indications that Mother Bloor,
an outstanding Communist woman in the United States, and her
daughter are in contact with Nancy Reed and able to transmit infor-
mation to Mary Reed in Moscow concerning the welfare of Nancy
Reed in the United States.
I ask that that he received as an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. Without objection, it is received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 7.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, we have here a collection of docu-
ments, all of which pertain to the visits of Nancy Reed to the Soviet
Union. The first of these is a document entitled "A Soviet Vacation,"
which is a typewritten article with numerous interlineations, by pen,
written by Nan Reed, according to a notation made in the handwriting
of Nancy Reed.
Mr. Birmingham, can you identify that as one of the documents
which you received or obtained in this collection ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. In this particular article about which we have no
information as to whether it was ever published or not, Nancy Reed
describes a visit which she made to one of the rest homes in the Soviet
Union during her period of approximately a year's employment in
that country. Some of the passages which give an indication a« to
Miss Reed's viewi)oint belong, I think, in the record at this point :
I was spellbound, thinking it is because I am a worker in the Soviet Union
that all these beauties are my privilege to live among and to enjoy. I recalled my
enthusiastic first impressions of southern California twelve years ago, and realized
that in spite of similar beauty, the thrill of what I now felt had been totally
lacking then. And this was only my first hour. I have not yet met the 250
Soviet students that made up the population of this workers' vacation paradise.
I wondered how I was going to communicate with them when my knowledge of
their language was so scant, but, luckily for me, the Russians are possessed of
UX-AMEKICAN I'llOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8697
groat imaginations: when words failed nio, wli(>n even my evcr-prosent little
dictionary did not disclose my meanint;. then my liand motions plus their quick
response,' and always a lot of lauyliter, would somehow hridjie the gap toward
understanding. This is the quickest, happiest way of learning Russian.
A thorough physical examination was required on arival and advice given as
to how many pounds one should gain or lose hy the time one was ready for
another examination before going homo. The free medical department had two
iloetors, two nurses, and a dentist on duty all the time, and every ache or pain
was tended with a care that seemed to me should make any orphan there feel
he had parents again. There was even a barber shop on the premises as well as
a post, telegraph, and banking service for two hours every day. I wondered to
myself what more security a workei- would want than to liave his meals, living,
recreation, and health all' taken care of. But this security in the Soviet Union
means more than just material security, it gives courage to grasp life firmly with
both hands and face its problems fearlessly.
Our daily regime, for there are no Sundays, was a choice of sports in the
mornings— swimming, rowing, sun bathing— a beach for the women and a beach
for the men, adjoining with no drawn line of demarcation — tennis with a variety
of good rackets for the experienced and not so good for the beginners; volley
hall, the great national game; reading in the library or walks to the village for
a newspaper or grapes, since it was the grape season in one of the best grape
regions of the country.
Dinner was at one o'clock and consisted of cabbage soup with meat, croquettes or
-sometimes chicken, two vegetables, and dessert. Immediately after dinner we had
to go to our dormitories to lie down. Reading was allowed, but sleep was urged.
Occasionally the head doctor came around to count noses, but since we never
knew when he was coming it was a very effective method of seeing that each got
his i)roper amotint of daily rest.
The tea gong soiuided at 4 o'clock and huns or sweetened bread were an added
Incentive to answer this call. From teatime until supper and also after supper
one could again do what he liked. For supper at 7 we usually had hot, white
kasha, very much like our farina, fish or meat, vegetables, black bread, and
tea. I never got up from the table hungry. Together with the first breakfast at
S o'clock of milk, coffee, and black bread, and the second breakfast at 9 o'clock
of bread and butter, eggs, and tea. we actually consumed five meals a day, and
since we had to be in bed at 11 o'clock, we got at least ten hours of sleep out of
every twenty-four.
Never have I known more immaculate cleanliness nor more clocklike smooth-
ness in the running of an organization, but what was still more impressive and
still remains refreshing in my mind was the un.iversal spirit of wholesome, happy
fun. Never once did any of these Soviet students, young men and women entirely
unchaperoned, have to resort to any artificial stimulation in the form of drink,
although wine shops were only ten minutes away, but always in the evenings
did their happy voices ring across the moonlit waters with the triumphant songs
of their proletarian world.
Tliat is the general tenor of the article. It compares conditions and
affairs in the Soviet Union with conditions in the United States.
Is that a correct account of this article, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr, Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. I ask the article be received.
Mr. Starnes. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(The article referred to is marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 8.")
Mr. Matthews. The next document is a certificate made out to Nancy
Reed admitting her to the rest home whicli she describes in the article
from which an excerpt has been read.
I ask this be received in evidence.
Air. Starnes. Without objection it is so ordei-ed.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 9.")
3598 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. I show you a document dated June 12, 1932, ad-
dressed to "Comrade Borodin," and ask you if you can identify that
as one of the documents which you obtained ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 10.")
Mr. Matthews. This is a two-page typewritten document sent by
Nancy Keed to Comrade Borodin, in which Miss Reed makes numerous
suggestions concerning the office in which she was working in the
Soviet Union.
The "Comrade Borodin" to whom reference is made here first
achieved international notoriety as the representative of Stalin in
China in 1927, when Borodin was sent to that country to head the
Communist revolution which took place at that time and in which
enterprise Earl Browder, according to testimony befc-re this com-
mittee, was closely associated with Comrade Borodin.
Mr. Starnes. Was this about the period of time that Earl Browder
testified before this committee here in this room that he visited China
on a special mission ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir ; and Michael Borodin was associated with
Browder in that enterprise; and James Dolson, another witness before
this committee, a witness from Pittsburgh, was also in.
Mr. Starnes. Was that the one cited for contempt before the com-
mittee ?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct. He was also m China working
under Michael Borodin at that time.
Mr. Starnes. Was that the same James Dolson, who was employed
on the W. P. A. as a teacher?
Mr. Mattheavs. That is correct. You may recall when Mr. Dolson
was asked if he had conferred at any length with Borodin his first
reply was that he didn't speak Russian well enough to confer with
Borodin and then Mr. Wolson was reminded that Mr. Borodin was
born and grew up in Chicago and spoke Englisli fluently, and then he
admitted he had conversations with him.
The particular criticism which Miss Reed makes to Borodin in this
document and to Comrade Melnichanski in another document which I
ask Mr. Birmingham to identify
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. Is that these Russian leaders should take more care
to impress favorably foreign visitors so that when they return to their
respective countries they will be better propaganda for the Soviet
Union.
Is that a correct statement of the point involved in these communi-
cations, Mr, Birmingham ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Mattews. I ask the letter to Comrade Melnichanski be marked.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 11.")
Mr. Starnes. These last two exhibits are important documents and
the Reporter will incori3orate them in the record.
UN-AMERICAN I'llOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8699
(Birmingham Exhibit No. 10 is as follows:)
Ckiticisms of Oub Office Roiitine and Suggestions for Tiitaii iMPBovEMEirr
June 12, 1932.
To COMBAPE BOKODIN :
I. LACK OF OKGA.MZhU SYSTEM
Because of the total absence of any meetings of our staff, the functions of eacti
member have never been clearly defined, and problems that required discussion by
the staff as they arose have remained unsolved.
a. We should have regular weekly staff meetings.
b. We should have a definite idea of the kind of information that you, AOMS
and the Intourist need for reference, in order to properly and permanently or-
ganize our system of taking applications.
n. I-\CK OF REOirLAR SERVICE
Our work has suffered very much from the irregularity of the Intourist guides.
During May when the Visa Bureau sent word to us to proceed in getting people
jobs, we were continually stranded for guides, and, when they did come, they were
not qualified to do any telephoning to the trusts before taking the people to the
job, because this job of telephoning requires some one —
(1) With a good understanding of employment (terms and so forth).
(2) With a knowledge of the needs of the trusts.
(3) With a knowledge of how to get in touch with the right people, for hiring
applicants.
(4) With a good knowledge of the three languages, Russian, English, German.
a. We need one permanent n-orker irith above qnaliflcations. Such a person
might combine the duties of making the contacts with the trusts and the duties
of technical secretary. If well organized the work of the English and German
secretaries could be dovetailed with those of the technical secretary so as to give
the former time to make frequent statistical lists and reports from the data which
they have at hand, and possibly take over some of the correspondence from appli-
cants abroad.
b. We need office equipment such as another telephone, an up-to-date telephone
book. (We have had to use one that is 2 years' old and belongs to another depart-
ment which claims it whenever it needs it — better paper supply (sometimes we get
only three sheets at a time) files — desks repaired.
c. We need to work out a standard voeabular^ of employment terms.
in. WITHHOLDING OF INFORMATION
Information from such organizations as the AOMS and the Dvoretz Truda
should be given to the Secretaries immediately on receipt so as not to hold up the
work unnecessarily and so that the secretaries can coordinate their activities
instead of working as they do now, in a haphazard way.
a. Any meetings that deal with the work of the bureau should include the secre-
taries of the two sections and should be interpreted to them so that they may
know of the work that is being planned.
rv. DAMAGING POLITICAL EFFECTS
Because the work of our office has been so disoi'ganized, and because of the lack
of regular service, it has naturally resulted in a poor impression on the people
coming to the office, and when this impression is not overcome it gives rise to very
bad propaganda against the U. S. S. R.
a. Fifty Germans and fourteen Americans have already gone back to their own
countries, and it has been reported that the Germans made an unfavorable report
of things here.
8700 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
(Birmingham Exhibit 11 is as follows:)
Moscow, July 25, 1932.
Deur Comrade Mklisichanski: I have been working in employment manage-
ment for the last five years and I want to make my experience useful to the
Soviet Union.
While people coming as tourists were being allowed to stay as workers I
was in Charge of the English-speaking section of the Foreign Bureau under
Comrade Borodin, but when this department was closed as a result of the
new regulation 1 was transferred by Comrade Borodin to the Moscow Daily
News.
The workers who came to Moscow while I was on that job were up against
a very diflBcult problem. A decision which affected their whole lives was
changed about twenty times in one month, and workers who had come here
enthusiastically, eager to give all they had to the building of socialism, found
themselves stranded and in many cases were treated by oui* office with such
indifference and such failure to understand their predicament that they left
with a very bitter feeling against the Soviet Union, which through its tourist
offices in various countries had encotiraged them to stay and now drove them
back to the poverty and persectition of their own countries without so nuuli
as an explanation.
Such treatment affects the whole attitude of a worker. His political uut-
look when he returns home depends to a great extent on the honest courtesy
with which he has treated here. Consequently, I look tipou the hiring of
foreign workers for the Soviet Union not only as a convenience for the fac-
tories here, but also from the political standpoint of their attitude towards u?;.
I must say that the failure of some comrades in Moscow to tinderstand
the psychology of foreign workers who are sympathetic to us has caused much
needless hostility. I have counteracted this as far as it has been in my power
to do so, and hope that the opportunity will again come to me for the personal
contact in employment for which I am trained and for which I am naturally
fitted.
Therefore, I am extremely interested in the ftitttre of emi)loyment work in
connection with Soviet factories. If there is any possibility of the develop-
ment of organized selection f)f workers abroad f<)r jobs here, I want to know
how how I can best eijuip myself for such work and get the experience in
Soviet industry and political life which would tit me for carrying on employ-
ment work abroad. My knowledge of French and German is a help, and I
expect to know Rtissian soon.
Mr. Matthews. The next is a document in Russian which I ask
Mr. Birmingham to identify. Did you obtain that document?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthews. This is a certificate of credentials showing- th'^t
Nancy Reed is a fellow-laborer editing the newspaper, Moscow
Daily News, published in Moscow in the American language. Trans-
lated it is as follows :
To whom it may concern:
Comrade Nancy Reed is a fellow-laborer editing the newspaper Moscow
Daily News, published in Moscow in the American laiigtiage. Comrade Reed
is traveling to the Caticuses in order to gather material for our paper-
We ask all Soviet and professional unions to cooperate with her in her work,
as well as to assist her in obtaining all necessary tickets for her travels.
It is signed, "Stolar, Secretary in Charge."
I ask this be marked as an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 12.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham. I show you another document
and ask you to describe it.
Mr. Birmingham. It is an identification card for professional
printers and billfolders.
Mr. Matthews. Is that a certificate or niembershi]) card?
UX-AMEKICAN I'KOrACJANnA ACTIVITIES 8701
Mr. Birmingham. That is an identification card issued to the mem-
bers of the union and shows Nancy Keed's membership as a ma-
chinist.
Mr. Matphews. Was this made out to Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. Nancy Reed, yes.
Mr. Matthews. This document indicates that Nancy Reed was a
member of the Professional Printers and Billfolders Union in the
Soviet Union, and her occupation is listed as a "machinist" on her
membersliip card.
I oli'er this in evidence, Mr. Chairman,
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 13.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identity that document
and give its significance ?
Mr. Birmingham. This is made from Nanc}' Reed's phone book
while she was in the Soviet, of telephone numbers of persons and the
names of collectives and trade unions and names of persons connected
with the same, with Moscow telephone numbers.
Mr. Matthews. Do you have the entire telephone book used by
Miss Reed in the Soviet Union?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, sir.
Mr. MATTHEW'S. I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Ml". Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 14.")
Mr. Matthews. One more document. Did you obtain that docu-
ment in this collection of material ?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthew^s. There are four of notes in the handwriting of Nancy
Reed and two tyi^ewritten pages which apparently deal with the
personnel work in which Miss Reed was engaged while she was em-
])loye(l by the Soviet, a type of work similar to that which she had been
doing for the Department of Labor in the State of New York during
the past several years.
As a matter of fact, the documents disclose, do they not, Mr. Bir-
mingham, that Miss Nanc}' Reed stated to the authorities in tlie Soviet
Union that one of the purposes of her obtaining employment in the
Soviet Union was connected with the fact that she was doing similar
work in the Ignited States?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthew's. I offer this in evidence.
Mr. St.\i;nks. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 15.")
Mr. Matthews. In other words, the work of personnel placement?
Ml-. BiimiNGHAM. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Now, Mr. Birmingham, when Nancy Reed returned
from the Soviet Union was she active at all in propaganda work on
])ehalf of the Soviet Union ?
^fr. Bii::mingiiam. Very much so.
Mr. Matthews. Did she make speeches in this country giving her
impression of the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Birmingham. On many occasions.
8702 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. I show you a document and ask you to identify that.
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, this is a photostatic copy of a letter
addressed to Miss Reed from Margaret Thorp, who signed herself
as Mrs. Willard Thorp, who I think was one of the prominent officials
in the N. R. A. a few years ago.
Margaret Thorp writes to Miss Reed saying :
It is very pleasant to hear from you and I am, of course, delighted to do
anything I can for the Cause, though, since I am a very new member of the
present day club and have a bad memory for faces, I shall not be as useful as I
should like to be.
Your nice elderly lady, I am sure, was Mrs. William R. Hall, 11 Cleveland
Lane, who is a great believer in recognition.
The person who introduced you was, I think, Mrs. Thomas C. Roberts, 32
Hodge Road — anyway I believe she would be worth trying. Also these, though
I may make some horrid slips:
Miss Edith Roberts, Miss Helen Roberts, 46 Bayard Lane ; Mrs. Walter Roberts,
155 Hodge Road; Mrs. Richard V. Lindabury, 34 Cleveland Lane; Mrs. George
Batten, Rosedale Road ; Mrs. Burnham Dell, Meadow Garden, Kingston Road ;
Mrs. William Koren, 105 Fitz-Raudolph Road; Mrs. Allen G. Shenstone, 111
Mercer Street.
My mother, who was with me that afternoon, is not a member of the Club but
was much interested in your talk and might, I think, be worth writing to; Mrs.
Wilson Farrand, 157 Ralston Avenue, South Orange, N. .T.
Two members of the club who were not present but are much interested in
Russia are :
Mrs. Luther P. Eisenhart, The Dean's House, Princeton University, and
Mrs. Roger Parrott, 17 Ivy Lane.
Use my name, if you care to, in writing to either of them.
I hope this may be of some use. Probably Nancy Baldwin Smith can do more
for you. I think your talk did real good, for not only did it excite those in-
numerable questions, but the attempts made to explain away your agreeable
picture by those who can believe no good of the country are very amusing.
Their chief bulwark is tliat the Russian Government probably imported you
there and treated you in the princely manner you described so that you might
go back to America and spread propaganda. I hope much that we may meet
again .soon. Sincerely yoiir.s, Margaret Thorp. (Mrs. Willard Thorp.)
I offer that in evidence. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document just referred to and read was marked "Bir-
mingham Exhibit No. 16.")
Mr. Mattheavs. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify this as a docu'
ment which you obtained?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. This is a letter addressed to Miss Nancy Reed from
Evans Clark, director of tlie Twentietli Century Fund, Incorporated,
II West Forty-second Street, New York City.
Mr. Clark says :
Dear Miss Reed: I have your letter of June 5th asking for a contribution
for the Independent Committee for the Recognition of Soviet Russia. I might
possibly make a very small donation, but would like to know a little more about
what the Committee has done and plans to do, with some idea of the financing.
This letter indicates that Nancy Reed was to some extent active on
behalf of tliis committee in soliciting funds for the work of the com-
mittee to obtain the recognition of the Soviet Union.
In ink on the letter, in the handwriting of Nancy Reed, is the name
of Ira S. Kotins.
I offer this in evidence. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
UX-AMKKICAN I'UOrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8703
(The letter just referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 17.")
Mr. Matthews. The next document is a list of individuals who were
apparently a part of a solicitation list in the possession of Nancy Reed,
and used by her in coiniecfion with this campaign for the recognition
of the Soviet Union.
Can 5'ou identify those docmnents as a part of the collection which
you obtained. ]Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. BiRMiX(aiAM. I do.
Mr. Matthews. The first name visible on this list is that of Charles
Reclit, lawyer. Forty-second Street.
Mr. Recht will be recalled as a witness who appeared before this
conunittee. a lawyer, whose principal client, if not only client, is the
Soviet Union.
Other names appearing on this list are Theodore Dreiser, Fanny
Hurst. Alice Wit hero w, Stewart Chase, Hey wood Broun, Mrs. Frank
Vanderlip, Floyd Veil, Norman Hapgood, Evans Clark, and a host of
others. The collection also includes a letter addressed to Mrs. Lamont,
on the letterhead of this Independent Committee for the Recognition
of the Soviet Union, which shows that Margaret Lamont, the wife
of Corliss Lamont, was the executive secretary of the organization.
Nancy Reed's name does not appear on the letterhead, but the corre-
spondent does indicate that she was active in behalf of the committee
despite the fact that she did not ajiparentl}^ hold an official position.
I ofiVr this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received,
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 18.")
Mi-. M-ATrHEWs. JSIr. Chairman, we have four more documents which
apparently are articles which Miss Reed either published or intended
to piiblislu all of which have to do with her impressions of the Soviet
T'nion or her attitude toward certain social questions in the United
States.
The first of these documents is entitled "Tramway Etiquette in
Moscow." Can you identify that, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. And this is, as Mrs. Thorp said, an agreeable pic-
ture which was presented by Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. That is right.
Mr. Matthews. I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 19.")
Mr. Matthews. The next document is entitled "Functions of
Money—" that is in the dollar sign, "In the U. S. S. R."
Can you identify that document, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. These are penciled notes in the handwriting of
Nancy Reed and among her comments in her own handwriting under
point 7 :
The seizure of all banks and of the whole financial machinery is necessary for
the subsequent control of production and distribution under the workers, but it
will not be the delicate or complicated machine that it is under capitalism.
62626— 41— vol. 14- 35
3704 UX-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
These were apparently notes for a speech or an article prepared in
the handwriting of Miss Reed.
I offer this in evidence, Mr, Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 20.")
Mr. Matthews. The next docnment is a lengthy one dealing with
the conditions generally in the Soviet Union, bnt particularly bearing
upon the position of women in the Soviet Union. It is a typewritten
document with interlineations in the handwriting of Miss Reed. Is
that correct, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And again the numerous comparisons of the posi-
tion of women in the United States and the Soviet Union show that
Miss Reed was presenting an agreeable picture of the Soviet Union as
contrasted with the disagreeable picture of the United States?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. I offer that in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 21.")
Mr. Matthews. The next document will you identify as one ob-
tained with the others ?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. This is a typewritten document also with inter-
lineations in the handwriting of Miss Reed.
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. This typewritten document in possession of the
committee is a letter to Mrs. Roosevelt, apparently intended for publi-
cation. It is not signed by Miss Reed but signed "Ima Worker." It
is a sharp rebuke of Mrs. Roosevelt on account of an article which
Mrs. Dahl, the daughter of Mrs. Roosevelt, had published in Liberty
Magazine giving some indication for menus on vacation and in the
course of that article again Miss Reed presents a rather disagreeable
picture of the United States as contrasted with the sort of economy
which she apparently would like to see supplant what is in this country.
I ask that this be received in evidence as one of the documents.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 22.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify this photostatic
document as a copy of a part of a letter from Mary Reed in the Soviet
Union, to her sister, Nancy Reed, in this country?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. A portion of this letter reads as follows :
I'm puffing my chest out about your church and work for the President. Boy,
you are a "man of action" all right. You've got the guts, kid, and can go through
the world chin up, and it is me that knows how that's not always so easy.
If Miss Reed had appeared before the committee this morning I am
sure the connnittee would be glad to have her explain what these
references mean.
It is sometimes true, Mr. Chairman, that a word like "church'' is
a code for the party and "work for the President" could very easily
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8705
bo work for somebody who is designated "]*resident." I think you
recall Mr. Dolson had a membership card made out in the name of
the l*resident.
I ask this be marked as an exhibit.
Ml'. Stai^nes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 23.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, will you identify this document
as one that you obtained^
Mr. BiRMixGHAM. It is.
Mr. Matthew^s. This is a letter addressed to "Nancy dear." It
is dated June 3, 1939, and signed by "Charles." Charles explains in
the first i^aragraph that he is compelled to break a date, and at the
close of his letter he tells Nancy that if she pursues a certain course
of action, "you'd be so happy and a million times better Communist
for it. too."' We don't know or do you have any idea who "Charles"
might be ?
Mr. Birmingham. Couldn't identify him.
Mr. Matthews. Charles is unidentified but he is apparently a per-
son who assumes in his correspondence that Miss Reed is a Communist.
I ask this be marked as an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 24.")
Mr. Matihews. Can you identify this photograph as one you ob-
tained in this collection of documents, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. This is a photograph, apparently, of a passport
photograph which may be deduced from the fact that the signature is
at the bottom of the photograph and the signature is "Grover J.
Shoholm."
Mr. Birmingham, is there a rather extensive correspondence from
Grover Shoholm in this collection of documents which w^ere obtained
from the effects of Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. There is.
Mr. Matihews. Does that correspondence go back approximately
20 years?
Mr. Birmingham. It does.
Mr. Matihews. Does it go back to the days of Harvard during the
World War?
Mr. Birmingham. It does.
Mr. Matthews. Was Grover Shoholm apparently a student at
HarViU'd University?
Mr. Birmingham. He was.
Mr. Matthews. I offer this in evidence.
Ml*. Starnes. It will be received.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 25.")
Mr. Matthews. Do you know anything about the subsequent em-
ployment of Gi'over Sholiolm as revealed in these numerous docu-
ments ?
Mr. Birmingham. I don't know his present whereabouts. Up to
1933 he was on one of the United States Shipping Board boats.
8706 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. Is this a picture of Grover Sholiolin in uniform
on a United States liner ?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. I ask this be received in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The photograph referred to is marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 26.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I ask these exhibits be received one
by one. The first is from Grover J. Shohohii, addressed to "Dear
N. E."
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 27.")
Mr. Starnes. What is the purport of the correspondence? To
show that Grover Shoholm was a member of the party and interested
in party activities and that he was employed on a United States
merchant ship ?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct; and certain official documents
which were, for some reason or other, in the possession of Nancy
Reed which show that Grover Shoholm was an employee of the
Soviet Union, and vested with absolute autocratic powers in various
parts of the Soviet Union, I believe, includin<r Vladivostok. His
official credentials were for some reason or other in the possession
of Nancy Reed.
Mr. Birmingham. After the revolution.
Mr. VooRHis. You have the originals?
Mr. Matthews. Yes, sir. The first is a letter to show you how
extensive this correspondence is. It dates from August 11, 1917.
This one is dated, as I say, August 11, 1917, and addressed to "Dear
N.R."
The next is a letter with the envelope accompanying it, addressed
to "Miss Nancy Reed," dated May 2, 1938 ; is that correct ?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
]VIr. Matthews. From Grover Shoholm showing that from the
period of 1917 until 1938 there was a more or less regular corre-
spondence between Grover Shoholm and Nancy Reed. In this letter
of April 30, postmarked May 2, 1938, Grover Shoholm states:
However, I spoke with Mother Bloor wheii she was here, perhaps a month
or a little more ago, to make sure that she had not gotten into some political
trouble there. Mrs. Bloor's eyes glowed when she spoke of Mary, she knew
her, she said when she lived in Springfield, and she was emphatic when she
said that she knew that Mary was "all right." She also mentioned you, that
you had just returned and that you were active in New York.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I think it is a reasonable deduction if Mother
Bloor reports to some one who is a known Communist abroad that
Nancy Reed is "active in New York," that that doesn't mean just
generally active in a social nature, but active in the Communist
Party. However, that interpretation may be taken for what it is
worth.
This letter has an interesting closing. First Shoholm has asked
about the conversion of rubles into dollars or dollars into rubles
at some rate other than the official rate of exchange and he asks
UN-AMERICAN' PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8707
about whether it is a serious offense to smuggle currency into the
Soviet Union. American currency into the Soviet Union.
In other words he wants to send some money to Mary in the
Soviet Unioii, accordin<r to the letter, and he is seeking advice of
Nancy about what he should do in the matter. Then he says:
If you could scout around and find out about these two points, you being
in New York, the center of things, and also a Party member, and let me know
at once, we ought to be able to help.
Now, apparently Grover Shoholm categorically identifies Nancy
Keed as a member of the Conununist Party, which is in direct con-
tradiction to her testimony before the deputy commissioner of the
De})artment of Labor of 'New York. In her testimony there she
denied being a Conununist or ever having been one,
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 28.")
Mr. Matthews. The next letter is one addressed to "Dear Mary," a
letter which was also in the possession of Nancy Reed. It is dated
November 11. 1918. In this letter Shoholm states that Porter Sargent
and Everts "are the conspirators of the Harvard Liberal Club, to
which I belong." Despite the date on the letter, there is no reference
in the connnunication that that was Armistice Day.
I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 29.")
Mr. Matthews. The next letter is signed "Grover J. Shoholm,
LT. S. S. Sturgeon BayP What type of vessel was the Sturgeon Bayf
Mr. Birmingham. It belonged to the merchant marine, a freighter.
I understand it is still in service.
Mr. Matthews. It is still in service?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. At one time Grover Shoholm was apparently em-
ployed on that vessel.
Mr. jNIattheavs. I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 30.")
]\Ir. Matthews. And I show vou this document. Can you identify
that ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes; it is a letter addressed to Mary and signed
b}' Grover J. Shoholm, U. S. S. Sturgeon Bay.
Mr. Matthe^vs. I offer that in evidence,
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 31.")
Mr. Mati-hews. And do you identify this document?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes. It is a letter signed with the initials G. J. S.,
dated September 17, 1918.
Mr. Matthews. I offer it in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
3708 UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 32.") ., .
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I have three similar documents
signed by Grover Shohohn, which I offer in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. They will be received.
(The three documents referred to were marked "Birmingham
Exhibits 33, 34, and 35.") . .
Mr. Matthews. Here is a photostatic copy of official credentials m
Kiissian, which, translated, read as follows :
Certificate dated October i, 1920 :
Issued by National Secretariat for Foreign Affairs attesting to the fact that
Comrade Slioholm is designated Controller of the Radio Telegraph of the Na-
tional Commissariat for Foreign Affairs —
and bears the stamp of the National Commissariat for Foreign Affairs.
That is one of the credentials, the original of which was in the pos-
session of Nancy Reed and which the committee now has.
I offer that in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
Mr. Matthews. The next is a certificate stamped "R. S. F. S. R."
which means the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic, National
Commissariat for Foreign Trade, and dated November 4, 1920, at
Moscow. It states :
Issued by National Committee for Foreign Trade to Comrade Shoholm, Grover
Ivan or Ivanov, to serve in capacity of Correspondent Translator for the National
Commissariat for Foreign Trade in Vladivostok in the Dolnevostok Republic.
All civilian and military groups, the R. S. F. S. R., and the Dolnevostok Repub-
lic are ordered to obey Comrade Shoholm to the full during his tenure in the City
of Vladivostok, as well as in the execution of his service in this official commission.
It is signed : "National Committee for Foreign Trade."
I offer that in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is received. i^-u-^
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 37.")
Mr. Matthews. The next one of the credentials is a certificate issued
to one Comrade Grover Ivanov Shocholm or Shokolm, Minister of Pro-
visions and Trade, to act as director of management of the authorized
commission in Vladivostok, to work as correspondent-translator :
All native and military groups of the D. V. R. are to report to Shoholm for
directions in the city of Vladivostok.
It is signed by the Minister of Provisions and Trade, D. V. R., and
Director of Affairs, January 2, 1921. I offer that in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered. ,
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 38.") ^ ..• u • J- . .1, ^
Mr. Matthews. There are several documents which indicate that
Grover Shoholm has been in correspondence, not only over a long
period of time with Mary and Nancy Reed but also from many parts
of the world. __.,.,.
Here is a letter from Malmo, Sweden ; an envelope from Helsinki,
Finland; one from Bochkareyo, Siberia; and one from Vladivostok;
and so on. I offer them in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. They will be received.
UX-A.\rERICAN PHOPAGAXDA ACTIVITIES 8709
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 39.")
^Ir. Staknes. The purport of all those official docnnients is to show
that Shoholm was a high functiojiaiy in the Coinnuinist Party?
Mr, Matthews. Yes; and in one of his letters to Nancy Reed he
says:
You being a Party member would be able to supply me witb certain attitudes.
Mr. Starnes. And this man has been an employee of various ship-
ping concerns in this country?
Mr. BiKMiNGHAM. Tluit is correct. He has been in the Merchant
Marine.
Mr. Matthews. Is there any indication he ever held any govern-
mental position in this country or was employed by the Government in
anv capacity in this country ?
Mr. BiKMiNGHAivr. Yes.
Mr. ^Matthews. In this letter which has already been introduced in
evidence, Grover Shoholm wrote to Nancy Reed :
I probably told you tbat I worked for about two years iu the State Chemical
Laboratory on water analysis, and about nine months in the Soils Laboratory
of the United States Engineers and took some courses at Brown.
In this particular letter Shoholm mentions other Conununists who
are publicly identified as such, as being in touch with Nancy Reed.
He says (Birmingham Exhibit No. 35) :
On the question of books, "revolutionary novels," suppose you consult with
Myra Page. She knew me when I was in the Party and will remember me.
I always liked her way of writing.
Myra Page is one of the writers on the Daily Worker's staff and
has been for approximately 20 years. Myra Page is at the present
time also the director of a school for writers conducted under the
auspices of the League of American Writers.
Again Shoholm says:
If you can see Fanny Rudd — there is a good comrade, and she will help.
About me just say that I am trying to be a chemist but meeting with no great
success.
Can you identify this as a photostatic copy of part of a letter sent
by Mary Reed to Nancy — Mary Reed Copeland to Nancy Reed ?
iMr, Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. It is in this particular letter that Mary Reed says :
But M. B. will give you an inkling. Also, I sent a telegram for the books and
busy as you are I know you'll get Joe Freeman and Michael Gold and others on
the job, and Esther promised to help, too.
Mr. Birmingham, have j'^ou been able to identify the "Esther"
referred to in this correspondencse ?
Mr. Birmingham. I have not.
Mr. Matthews. But the "Joseph Freeman" and "Michael Gold"
referred to have been prominently identified in the public mind as
Communists?
Mr. Birmingham. They have,
Mr. Matthews. Michael Gold being one of the columnists on the
Daily Worker and Joseph Freeman for a number of years one of the
editors of New Masses?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr, Matthews. I offer this photostat in evidence, Mr, Chairman.
3710 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Starnes. It will be i-eceived.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 40.")
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify this as part of another letter
sent by Mary Reed Copeland to her sister Nancy ?
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. In this letter Mary Reed Copeland asks her sister
Nancy :
And why V. I. Jerome did not answer my letter.
The assumption here is that Mary Reed, that is that Nancy Reed, is
in contact with these prominent Communists in New York City and
will be able to answer such questions for her sister Mary. I. V.
Jerome, for example, was for a number of years the editor in chief
of the Communist, the monthly publication of the Communist Party.
She says :
Include his answer in your wire even if you have to take it out of my dollars
and take the books out, too, if you can't get them otherwise. Ask Joe or someone
about the author, too.
And on the assumption derived from previous correspondence that
is apparently Joe Freeman.
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 41.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify that as one of
the documents you obtained in this collection ?
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. IMatthews. This is a letter addressed "Dear Nancy" and signed
"Herta."
Mr. Starnes. That is Herta Ware?
Mr. Matthews. Herta Ware; is that correct, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. In this letter Herta Ware, the daughter of Mother
Bloor, says to Nancy :
Hope we can have another get-together next week. Carl and Anne are down
here in a little shack with the baby and a colored girl.
The reference there, Mr. Chairman is apparently to Carl and Anne
Reeve. Carl Reeve is a son of Mother Bloor by another marriage,
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 42.")
Mr. Matthews. Will you identify that letter, Mr. Birmingham,
please?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. This is a letter signed Len ; is that correct ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. The letter is addressed "Dear Nan." The letter is
from Glasgow, Scotland. In the course of this letter Len writes :
About yourself now. I see that you are busy with meetings, and so forth, and
also that you very often meet Rose Baron. Exactly twelve months ago today I
was flliing in a form in the M. O. P. R. offices under the personal supervision of
Rose. She will remember that
UX-AMEKICAX rUOI'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8711
Mr. VooRHis. What is "M. O. P. R."?
Mr. Matthews. That is the Russian headquarters of the Interna-
tional Labor Defense. There lias been a <z"ood deal of testimony in
the conuuittee whieh makes that connection, Concrressman. I don't
know the Russian words for M. O. P. R., but the Rose Baron has been
identified in testimony before this committee as the office secretary of
the International Labor Defense in New York and here apparently
she was working- for a period in the International Labor Defense
headquarters in Moscow, and the Len of this letter met Rose Baron
in Moscow and writes to Nancy Reed that : "You very often meet
Rose Baron."'
Len says:
I am pleased to hear you have found a job. Don't get making Red speeches
from your office desk and find yourself fired into the street.
Another part of the letter states :
Sometime ago I sent a copy over *^o the States and tliey wrote back asking
for ijermission to publish it.
That is a copy of his pamphlet —
but 1 have heard nothing since and have also forgotten the address of the
people who wrote except that I remember it was from Belle Taub whom I
met in Amsterdam at the Anti-War Congress.
The xVnti-War Congress referred to here is the one held in Am-
sterdam.
Mr. Starnes. From which came
Mr. Matthews. In the sunuuer of 1932, from which came the
American League for Peace and Democracy, and the "Belle Taub" re-
ferred to here is the wife of the attorney who appeared before this
committee or tried to appear before this committee recently.
;Mr. VooRHis. What attorne}' was that?
Mr. ]\Iatthews. Allen Taub. The chairman will recollect the ap-
pearance of Allen Taub.
Mr. Starnes. Yes, I remember it.
Mr. Matthews. Len under his signature savs:
*&'
The addre.^s I have will always find me, but I would remind you it is the
C. P. district office.
Now, Len writing from Glasgow states the address to which he is
to receive his letters is the Communist Party district office.
Mr. Birmingham, do you have any idea who "Len" in this letter is?
Mr. Bikmi^(;ham. Later on he is identified.
Mr. ^L^tthews. How is he identified in subsequent correspondence?
Mr. Birmingham. On the envelope of the original letter is the re-
turn address. It is on the original and is not photostated,
Mr. Matthews. Can you make an identification of Len?
Mr. Birmingham. No, but I have seen the letter.
Mr. Matthews. I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 43.")
Mr. Matthews. In the effects of Nancy Reed, which came into your
possession through service of these subpenas, did you find an al-
ternate's badge for the New York State cf)nvention of the Communist
Party in May of 1938 ?
3712 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, we have no way of knowing
whether or not this was the alternate's badge of Nancy Reed. If
she had appeared before the committee, of course, she would have
been asked that question, but at least the badge was in her personal
eft'ects.
I offer it in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 44.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, in the material which you ob-
tained on Cape Cod and which was dug up from the ground there,
were there reports of the Central Committee of the Communist Party
and other confidential reports of the Communist Party and
Mr. Birmingham. There was.
Mr. Matthews. Can you identify these reports as being among
those documents ?
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. And these were documents which you have in-
formation were buried at Sandwich on Cape Cod, either personally,
or under the supervision of Nancy Reed ; is that correct ?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. Does your information state whether or not Nancy
Reed herself was present when these documents were buried in the
ground there?
Mr. Birmingham. She was.
Mr. Matthews. She was present when the documents were buried
and supervised their burial?
Mr. Birmingham. She did.
Mr. VooRHis. What evidence do we have to that effect ?
Mr. Starnes. That is confidential information.
Mr. Matthews. That is how the documents were obtained. The
person who assisted in the burial took the committee investigator
right to the spot as they dug them up.
Mr. VooRHis, And that person testified that Nancy Reed was there ?
Mr. Birmingham. She made a statement to me — she didn't testify.
Mr. Matthews. And this was on the property of the Reeds in
Sandwich, Mass., and the material obtained is a part of this material
which is apparently the personal effects of Nancy Reed.
Mr. Starnes. You asked Mr. Birmingham whether
Mr. Matthews. Whether his information had it that Nancy Reed
was present?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, she was present; that is correct.
Mr. VooRHis. I was wondering what that information was, but I
understand now.
Mr. Birmingham. She drew a map showing exactly where the
material was under a house and told me beforehand, a month before
I went up there, exactly where it was buried and who supervised the
burying of it and how it was covered with canvas and leaves. I
went right to the spot with a rake and hoe and dug up the material
rX-AMKHICAX riiOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8713
as she stated, except for four boxes that were missing. I got three
out of seven.
Mr. Starnes. And the party who gave you the information is the
same party who stated that she assisted Nancy Reed in hiding the
docunuMits at that place?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And there you liave approximately 10 convention
rej)orts of the Communist Party ■
Mr. Birmingham. Of the central committee of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Matthews. These are the originals, are they not?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes; they are the originals.
Mv. Matthews. And not photostats?
Mr. Birmingham. No; not photostats.
Mr. Starnes. Will these minutes of the Central Committee of the
Communist Party furnish the committee pertinent information with
reference to the activities of the party in this country?
Mr. Matthews. Thev cover a wide range of activities.
Mr. Starnes. A wide range of activities and over a number of
years ?
Mr. jNIatthews. That is correct, but particularly with reference to
recent activities of the Communist Party — around the tenth con-
vention which was held 3 years ago, 1938.
Mr. Starnes. And do they divulge the names of some of the active
workers and leaders in the party and their roles?
Mr. IMatthews. No ; names are not divulged in the reports.
Mr. Birmingham. Different subjects like Communists in Spanish
activities, the Workers School, and the other different activities,
Mr. Starnes. I would like to know if you can summarize further
on that line, just what the reports deal with. Do they have any
reference, Mr. Birmingham, to the front organizations of the party —
are they mentioned in there?
Mr. Birmingham. Not by name but how they should work. If
you look at them I think you can understand what they mean — how
many were dismissed from being drunk and so forth and so on. It
is all headed there at the top.
Mr. Starnes. The Chair thinks these documents are so important
that they should be incorporated in the record, because this is the
first time insofar as we have been able to ascertain, the committee
has come into possession of such reports. They give information as
to organizations, the number, the growth, and the composition of
the party by years; naming the affiliate industrial units, neighbor-
hood branches, Negroes, women, housewives, working women, and
then it gives the number here who were members of the A. F. of L.,
C. I. O., the Workers Alliance, the employed, unemployed; native
and foreign born — those in the party for a year and those for more
than a year, less than a year, and also gives them by national gTOups,
social and industrial composition, and the Negroes in the party by
districts.
8714
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The Chair believes it is of such importance that it should be copied
into the record.
(The material referred to is as follows:)
May 1938.
Rb3H>rt on Organization
material for the organization commission loth party convention
We are coming to the 10th Party Convention with an approximate member-
fehip of 75,000 (although the registration figures and the 1938 recruiting thus
far account for only !j3.940 and 12,000, or 66,000). This figure is calculated
on the basis of the members registered January 1st, plus the number recruited
up to May 1st. It shows that our Party has doubled its membership since
January 1936. This growth is due especially to the successful recruiting drive
that culminated in the Party Builders Congress.
The statistics gathered for the Convention on the basis of the registrations
of 1936, 1937, and 1938, indicate clearly both the strong and weak points in
the Party organization. They enable us to draw conclusions regarding the
further building of the Party quantitatively and qualitatively. They indicate
in which direction we must improve the functioning of the Party, upon which
depends to a great extent the increasing role of the Party as a political factor
in the life of the country.
The Groicth and Composition, of the Party
Registration
Shop Units
Industrial Units
Neighborhood Branches _ _
Members in shop units ^
" " industrial units
" " branches
Negroes
AVomcn
Housewives
Working women
Male
Employed in shops of 500 workers...
Employed in shops of 1,000 workers.
Members AFL
Members CIO (Independent)
Members Workers Alliance
Employed
Unemployed
Native
Foreign born
One year or less in Party
Two years in Party
January 1936
30, 836
600
5,000
3,000
8,047
3,352
3,802
22, 783
7,700
2,000
8,000
4,000
14, 743
16, 093
January 1937
37, 682
517
336
1,226
6, 120
5,667
19, 470
2, 627
10, 990
3,355
6,888
26, 103
12, 905
4, 383
14, 226
4,210
22. 485
15, 167
19, 853
17, S29
16, 852
5,312
January 1938
.54, 012
555
582
1,391
7,478
10, 585
33,116
4,940
16, 898
6.014
11,094
36, 051
28. 596
5,670
8,987
16. 509
5. 929
30, 665
19, 929
30, 165
23, 847
26, 806
7,061
Negroes in Party by Districts
Dist.
Jan. 1937
Registration
Jan. 1938
Registration
New York
863
188
137
342
180
90
70
42
12
104
16, 796
1,933
1,730
2,714
250
280
236
364
114
3, 391
1,405
247
264
703
448
192
123
145
129
194
22,060
Philadelphia. . .
2,539
Ohio
2,677
Illinois . .
4,662
Alabama .
581
Missouri . ..
484
Florida .
389
Maryland
8.59
Oklahoma -
341
California _ ._ ._
4,739
UN-AMEUICAN rUUl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
National Groups
8715
Jan. 1936
Jan. 1937
Jan. 19.38
Italian . ..
1,040
710
906
902
831
557
424
427
361
196
74
1,372
Polish
1,193
Spiinish . . . .
533
Ilun^^ariiin . _ . - -
642
Lithuanian
700
(lerman . ,
Jugoslav -
637
590
862
Czcflioslovak . ..
273
Ukrainian ,
210
Social and Induatrial Composition
Jan. 1936
Jan. 1937
Jan. 1938
Steel -
584
844
446
646
732
242
919
422
239
266
21
41
83
.'■.37
1,959
2. 735
1.581
264
870
2.630
770
1.717
1,212
Mining
1.037
Marine
289
Longshore ._
1,034
Auto
291
259
282
001
Railroad - ..
285
Te.Mile
479
Rubber -.. -.
133
Oil
I'aeking . ..-_.----
Mftal
683
Buikline trades (inel. bricklayers, laborers, carpenters,
painters) _ . - - . -
2,929
Needle trades ._.
3,050
Food - ...
2,214
Agriculture . - .-.
513
Farmers
939
Office Workers ... ... . .. ..
1,788
480
941
4,073
Social Workers .
934
Teachers
2,097
1937 regis-
tration
Party schooling
Jan. 1937
Jan. 1938
Professionals _
Students
6.822
743
296
Section Training Sch . _ .
District " " -_.
National " "
3,267
1,304
276
3.889
1.424
Storekeepers
282
CONCLUSION
(1) From tlip fignre.s we see thaf the nuinbei- of shop units between 1936 and
193.S remained practically static. We notice, however, that since 1936, 582
industrial nnits were built, so that today we have altogether almost 18,000
members organized in units which are directly involved in work in the indus-
tries and in unions (shop and industrial units). Compared with 1936-37, we
find an increase of about ll.*,OUO members belonging: to units of both types.
(2) The neighborhood branches show only a very slight increase in the numeri-
cal growth between 1936-38. The uumber of members in this form of organiza-
tion aic, however, 14,000 more today than 1 year ago. This shows that the size
of the i)ranches has grown considerably, due especially to the latest successful
recruiting drive. The growth of the branches in membership gives us the possi-
bility today of establishing working groups in tlie election districts and precincts
in the big cities. This will enable us to establish the individual members of the
Party as citizens of the conununity, and thereby enable the Party to participate
more successfully in the iwlitical life of the Assembly Disti'icts, Wards, or
I>recincts.
(3) Negroes: The figure of Negro members in rhe Party shows that between
1936-37 there was a slight decline. It is only in January 1938, through the
8716 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
special efforts made during the recruiting drive that we brought this number
to ahnost 5,000. While numerically we can record this increase, yet the per-
centage of Negro members in relation to the total Party membership remains
practically the same. From now on greater efforts and systematic work and
attention will have to be paid to the Negro neighborhoods and Negro organiza-
tions, not only for the purpose of increasing their number in the Party, but
also to cut down the fluctuation which among Negroes is much higher than the
average fluctuation in the Party.
(4) Women: The increased number of women in the Party is very satis-
factory. Between 1936 and 1937, it has been more than doubled. What is
more encouraging, is the fact that the number of working women between
1936 and 193S has been practically tripled. These figures prove not only that
with the trade-union drives the working women are becoming more politically
conscious, but also that the proper efforts made by the Party organization to
draw the most militant women into the ranks of our Party has seen results.
This pace must be kept up. There are possibilities of swelling our ranks with
tens of thousands of \^orking women.
(5) The figures of the employed in shops show that since 1936 we tripled
the number of employed in the light industries, and increased substantially
also the number of Party members working in the basic industries. We are
far behind our aim, however, in deeply rooting the Party in the basic indus-
tries of the country. This is shown not only by the smaller proportion of those
recruited from basic industries compared with the light industries, but esi>ecially
by the small increase in some of the basic industries. Where a real effort
has been made, as for example in steel, the results are obvious in comparison
to mining, railroad, textile, longshore, and others. One main task remains:
Concentration on the basic industries for the purpose of building new shop
nuclei, strengthening the existing ones with intensified recruiting. This calls
for special well-planned drives in the concentration districts in the mining and
textle territories, in the most important ports, etc.
(6) Figures giving the length of time in the Party show that we have over
20,000 members who have been in the Party over two years, as against nearly
34,000 who have been in the Party less than two years. Adding to the 27,000
members that are in the Party for one year or less, the 12,000 that have joined
the Party since .January, we find that out of a total of 65 to 66 thousand active
members on record today, 40,000 are in the Party less than one year.
This shows immediately that we have not only to combat fluctuation in
general, but we must pay special attention to prevent the dropping of the older
Party members. At the same time it is necessary to intensify the education
to the utmost, for the purpose of maintaining and developing the large numbers
of new Party members.
(7) In 1936, at the time we conducted a drive to get all eligible Party
members into the trade unions, we had on record 8,000 in the A. F. L. and
4,000 in Independent Unions; in January, 1937, we find 14,226 Party members
active in A. F. L. unions. In January 1938, 8.987, in A. F. E.. 16,509 C. I. O.
unions, and 1,0<J0 in Independent and other unions.
From 12.(X)0 Party members active in the trade unions in 1936, we have
reached in January the number of 27.000. This is a real advance the Party
has made in the trade union field, especially in the industrial unions. Adding
to the 27,000 the number of Party members organized in the Workers Alliance,
we find today 50 percent of the membership active in trade unions and unem-
ployed organizations. This figure, beside its positive side which cannot be
underestimated, shows, at the same time, that there are still thousands of
members eligible for membership not only in trade unions but also in the
Workers Alliance.
(8) The figures on native- and foreign-born in the Party are very Indicative
of the growing attraction of the Party among the native masses. In 1936
the foreign-born comprised .53-.54% of the Party membership. In 1987, and
especially in 1938, we see a change in the picture. Today, the majority —
30,165 as against 23,846 — are native-born. (Figures from January registration.
Today the percentage of native-born is still higher, considering the high per-
centage of native among the newly recruited since Janiiary.)
Among the national grovips we find a slight increase among Italians, Poles,
and a few others, which is not in step, however, with the possibilities and
needs to counteract the forces of fascism and reaction among these masses.
It is natural that having reached its present size, the Party will attract
increasingly more native and young elements. One of our main tasks is to
L'N-A.MEKICA-N rUOl'Ali A.NDA ACTIVITIES 8717
coiu'eiitrnlc in this diriK'tiuii. Ilecause of the strong ties whieh our Party has
established for years with the masses of the various national groups, the role
these masses play in the basic industries and political life of the country,
and their close relation to the new generations, it is necessary however, to
take special measures to strengthen the Party among these masses, and
especially among the millions of Jewish, Italian, German, Polish, and Spanish
speaking people.
(9) The Party attracts also more and more young elements. There are in the
Party 7.560 below 25 years of age, 18.617 under the age of 35, making a total
of over 2H,00U under 35 years of age. The doors of the Party must remain
open to all who agree with our program and are prepared to be active in the
Party's work. Special concentration on young elements must continue with
undinilnished intensity.
(10) The social composition .shows that in the last period the Party has made
real headway in recruiting thousands of professionals and white-collar workers.
The Party will have to keep up the tempo of work among this stratum of the
population. .\t the same time, however, we must emphasize, and take the
proper measures for building more intensively the Party among the industrial
workers. While we cannot neglect recruiting among the professionals, the
work of the Party organization must be concentrated mainly on the industrial
workers. We must strive to get a much higher proportion of industrial workers
in our ranks. (This is mainly the problem of the New York City Organization.)
(11) The tigure on Party schooling shows the real effort the Party has made
to concentrate in the direction of training forces for leadership. In the years
1936 and 1937. 7,000 members went through section training schools, nearly !a
thousand through district training schools, and over 450 through the National
Training School. To this we must add other thousands of Party members enlisted
in evening courses and workers schools.
These results must be view^^d only as a healthy beginning, considering the
tens of thousands of new members that need education, the growing tasks of the
Party, the establishing of new schools on a state, county, section scales, of evening
cour.ses. of a greater utilization of the Workers Schools, must be regarded as the
most important task for building and further consolidating the Party organization.
RECRUITING AND FLUCTTTATION
Between January 1936 and January 1937, 2."i.l48 men and women signed mem-
bership applications. Between January 1937 and January 1938, the figure rose to
30.272. Adding the initiations of 1937 to the registered members January 1936,
which was 30,836, would have given us by January 1937 a membership of 50,000.
In January 1937, liowever. the registration was 37.682 members. It means that
during 1937, 18,302 members have dropped out, which means a 32% loss of the
total membership. However, if we consider the total recruits as compared with
the lost membership, we have a turnover of 72% this year. (W(^ must consider,
however, that the figures of 25,148 that appeared as recruited, in reality expressed
the tigure of initiations, which do not correspond to the lumiber of as.sigued
members to the units.)
During the year 1938 the fluctuation dropped considerably. Adding to the
37.682 registered members January 1937, 30.272 initiations, we should have had a
total membership of 68,000 by January 1st. Considering that the registration
January 1938 gives us a figure of 54.012, we see an approximate loss of 14,000
during the year. This shows, in comparison with the previous year, that the loss
has been lowered to 20 percent and less. However, if we consider the total re-
cruits as compared with the lost membership, we have a turnover of 46 percent
this .vear (with the exception of New York and a few other stat(> organizations
who have registered as recruited only those that are assigned to units. Most of
the state organizations still consider the nuinl)er of initiations as recruited.) At
this point it is necessary to state that from now on we shall adopt the system of
considering as new recntits only those who have signed applications and actually
assigned to units.
If we add the recruited up to date to the 54,012 registered Januai-y 1938, we
have today a niember.ship of about 75,000.
The above figures prove two outstanding things :
(1) A steady increase in recruiting.
(2) A steady decline in fluctuation.
This achievement is due not only to the more intensive political life of the
Parry, but to the organizational measures put into effect since the 9th Conven-
3718 UN-AMERICAN PKOrAGANDA AGTIVtTiES
tioii, aud especially duriug 1937 for the nid'oilizatuni of the Pai'ty in regard to
the iutensificatiou of recruiting aud cutting of iluctuatiou. The setting ay oi
recruiting committees and the establishment of membership commissions and
membership directors in the Party organizations for the purpose of checking on
the attendance, on dues payents, etc., has helped a great deal. Briefly, to the
extent that the leading comuuttees paid more attention t(t this problem, the Party
was able not only to strengthen its rank.s, but keep the new members.
This conclusions shows that to speed up the tempo in building the Party, it is
necessary to strengthen its political life and education, and at the same time,
improve the organizational apparatus which must insure continuous intensified
recruiting, a better attendance at Party meetings, further improvement in the
system of collection of dues, etc. These are essential measures to equip the
Party in carrying out its political activities.
Essential trrohlvms of organization.
To concretize the resolution on organization before the Convention, to cope
with the new political needs, it is necessary to evaluate all the experiences gained
in the last two years, and see to wliat extent the decisions of the 9th Party Con-
vention were fruitful, to see in which direction our efforts shall be concentrated
today to further improve the structure and functioning of the Party apparatus
and the lower organizations. We must see to what extent the changes in the
lower organizations have fulfilled our expectations, and whether some readjust-
ments are necessary. It is only through mass recruiting, through building a
mass circulation of our Party press, through intensifying the activities of Party
members among the organized masses, thrijugh paying the utmost attention to
the functioning of the Party apparatus and of the Party organization proper
and intensifying education, that we will "solve the problem of the political
and organizational consolidation and the strengthening of the Party as an organic
and key part of the task of forging the anti-fascist democratic front."
As the figures show, since the 9th Party Convention, our Party has grown
in quantity and quality ; has grown in influence. It was from the 9th Conven-
tion on primarily, that we laid the basis for building a mass Party. During
this period one of the most important problems before us was how best to
adapt the structure of the Party organization to the new political needs of
the Party and the working class ; how to improve the existing forms of organi-
zation, develop new ones, to enable the Party to connect itself strongly with
fhe organized masses of the shops, trade unions, the masses in the neighborhoods
and with their communal life.
Since 1936, the Party has grown in size, the apparatus has been strengthened
so that today there are state organizations in all important states of the union.
Instead of 27 districts which we had two years ago, there are today 40 state
organizations functioning, aud there are Party units in all 48 states. State
organizations as F'lorida. Oklahoma, Texas, and others, which two years ago
had only a few hundred members, have grown into organizations of 500 Party
member's and more. The Party has grown numerically and in quality not only
in the most industrial states, but it has taken root and gained in influence
throughout the entire country.
The organizational readjustments decided at the time of the 9th Convention
made possible such successful mobilization of the Party as in the case of
the election campaign, of the trade-union drives, in the campaign for the defense
of the Spanish and Chinese peoples, etc. They have helped in making the
Party react more quickly to the various political problems that have arisen on
a national, state, and local scale.
The organizational measures decided at the 9th Party Convention as regards
meetings, dues payments, improvements of the inner life of the branches and
units, the development of greater initiative and inner Party democracy, combined
with new methods of work suited to the traditions of the American workers, have
strengthened the power of attraction of our Party so that thousands upon thou-
sands of trade unionists, workers from the basic industries, from the light
industries and thousands of professionals have joined our ranks.
Past Forms of Party Organization.
The results obtained since the 9th Convention were made jwssible because the
organizational changes were combined with increased political activities, more
intensive education, and the development of hundreds, thousands of new leading
forces in all tyi>es of Party schools.
UX-AMEUICAN PUOl'AGAM )A ACTIVITIES 8719
In a short time we were able to pass from tlie street unit form of organization
to the branches, built on (he basis of the imlitical divisions of the cities (on an
assembly or ward scale). The old sections adapted themselves to the new political
needs, becoming the Party organization on a county or assembly district scale, etc.
Today the state organizations are divided into counties, assembly districts,
wards, etc. To the extent that Party influence has grown in the shops and
trade unions, not only the shop luiclei have gained new forces, but 582 industrial
units, with a total membership of 10,58.") have come into life. Industrial units
launched at the time of tlie J)th Party Convention helped not only the growth
of the Party, but were effective instruments in the trade-union drives.
Our Organizational Forms in Accord with the Neir Political Needs.
Since the 9th Party Convention, profound changes have taken place in the
country which raised the political consciousness of the toiling people. The
establishment of the C. I. O. as a powerful organization, the growth of a progres-
sive movement inside of the A. F. L. unions, the development of political organiza-
tions as the American Labor Party, the Commonwealth Federation, Labor's
Xon-Partisan League, etc.. under tlie influence of progressive forces, are playing
a great role in raising the political level of labor on a national, state, and local
scale. Considering that the progressive political movements are not merely
organized on a trade-union basis, but are developing on ii territorial political
basis as well, we see at once how such changes require an improvement in the
Party organization and Party activities to make the Party a more vital instni-
ment towards the development of progressive political movements of the broad
masses and moving the great mass of the toiling people into the stream of the
anti-fascist democratic front.
This convention reaffirms the decision made at the 9th Party Convention, and
emphasizes :
(1) That we must maintain and improve the structure of the Party on a
State, County, Assembly District, Precinct. Ward basis: that we must main-
tain and improve the activities of the three forms of organization — shop units,
industrial units, and branches.
(2) That we must concentrate on strengthening the .shop units and build new
ones in the basic industries. Shop nuclei shall not be organized artificially.
They must be established there where they can and must become mass organi-
zations in the larger shops.
(3) We must abolish the idea that the branches, the Party organizations that
act on a neighborhood scale, are today a set'oudary form of organization or
just a temporary one. They must become decisive permanent organizations in
tlie neighborhoods that tie the Party with the political life and problems of the
conununities.
(4) The industrial units, whethcn- based on trade-unions or industry, in
some cases as a temporary and in other cases as permanent organizations, must
be applied flexibly. This organization must be maintained or built whei-e it
serves a real purpose. It should be abolished wherever there is a basis for
building shop nuclei in its place, or where it no longer .serves the ptirpose for
which it was built.
Shop Units.
To achieve the above-stated aim. it is neces.sary to raise the role of this
organization in its full Leninist light. We must combat opportunistic tenden-
cies that have reduced some of the shop units to mere fractions, or have
transformed some of the shop units into industrial units, thus limiting their
political role.
In view of the thou.sands of new Party members in our I'anks. it is highly
impoi-tant to promote a thorough discus.sion of the role of the shop units, as
the organization of the most advanced workers in the shops, which raise the
daily problems of tlie workers in a political light, and connect this with the
position of the Party on the political issues on a state, national, and international
scale.
In the classes for new members, in the evening courses, in the discussions on
organizational problems, this question must be raised. Furthermore, we must
create guarantees that these important organizations receive c-ontinuous guid-
ance and help, so as to enable them to speak to the masses regularly through
their .'jhop papers and daily contacts with the workers, as the only way of
establishing this organization as the Party in the shop, mills, and mines.
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 36
3720 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Industrial Units.
In regard to industrial units, the 9th Party Convention correctly conceived
this organization as a transitional form, for the purpose of building shop
units and becoming a positive force in helping to build and consolidate the
trade-unions. Today a number of industrial units have fulfilled their purpose.
Others, because of lack of guidance, have not orientated toward transforma-
tion into shop units; others again for the same reason, have been reduced to
fractions and are not involved in the development of the broad movements in
the communities. Professional units have sprung up and developed without
control, separating the professionals in our ranks from the proletarian elements,
resisting a transformation into units on the basis of institutions. To solve the
problem of industrial units, it is necessary, as stated above, to review them
one by one, under the direct guidance of the leading committees, to determine
which of them shall be strengthened and how they shall be strengthened ;
which are ready to be transformed into shop units, and which shall be dissolved
and their members assigned to branches. Above all, we must strive to improve
this leadership, which is a decisive factor in the well functioning of the
organization.
Those industrial units based on large unions shall not only remain in exist-
ence, but must be strengthened. In the larger industrial centers they can be
built by taking into consideration, not only the problem of the union, but the
political needs of the Party on a geographical basis.
Taking for granted that there is an industrial unit of 200 members in a
union of 20,000 workers, why can't such an industrial unit be split into two or
three industrial units on the basis of the territory where the Party members
live? Such industrial units — their work coordinated by a joint buro — will not
only be able to carry on their political task in the union, but will become a
vital Party organization in the communal life of the territory where it will
meet, where the members live, and where they can join in the activities of the
Party, as the most advanced force of a strong luiion.
The members of the industrial units built in all kinds of very small unions
or small craft locals can be assigned to strengthen the branches. In such type
of unions or locals, only a few Party members are needed to carry on. By
strengthening the most important industrial imits, by involving them in terri-
torial work, it will also be possilile here and there, as the situation demands and
under the strict control of the leading committees, to transfer a certain number
of Party members from industrial units to strengthen the political life of the
branches.
Strengthen the Brmuhes in the Covun unities.
As stated above, the branches have proved themselves to be one of the main
instruments of our Party through which we spread oi^r agitatiftn and In-ing the
Party in close contact with the political life of the masses in the neighborhoods;
are the main vehicle of the Party in carrying on political campaigns and also
one of the main electoral instruments of our Party. To make them- a better
Party organization which links itself with the problems, with the life of the
community in which tliey are active, we must keep in mind at all times:
(1) To strengthen, to develop their leadership.
(2) To limit their size to a number not exceeding 50 (as decided in previous
resolutions of the C. C.)
(M) To improve, wherever necessary, their composition by drawing in indus-
trial workers.
( 4 ) To get the branches to issue neighborhood papers.
(o) To establish, in the larger centers, the group system on a precinct or
ward basis, which will help to activize the individual members of the branches.
In building the groups we must be on giiard against the conception that the
groups are independent units, and warned against mechanical organization.
The groups shall, as a general rule, be built where they are necessary, but only
when there are guarantees that within the group there are a few comrades with
initiative who will know exactly how to carry out the decisions of the branch,
how to stimulate the activities of the rest of the membership.
The building of the group system must be viewed as a process of development.
The groups based on a precinct Election District basis or other political sub-
divisions, should be led by a captain whose task shall be, not only to guide the
group in its activities, but to keep in contact with all Party members living in
the territory of the precinct, etc., irrespective of the Party organization to which
they belong.
UN-AMERICAN I'IUH'A(4AN1)A ACTIVITIES 8721
At the same time, we must keep in mind that it is the bram-h that shapes
Party policies, discusses the political problems ; that the branch is the main
place for the education of the members, while the jiroup is an active body
carryiui,' out the policies of the branch in a Riven territory.
Membership meetings on an assembly or ward scale, of all Tarty members
living in the territory, must be introduced as a regular feature of Party life.
This will help a great deal in stimulating the activities of all Party organiza-
tions and individual Party members living in the territory, and will make them
conscious of their political role and tasks.
Cotwlusion.
The improvement of the political life and function of the I'arty organization
must be accompanied by an improvement in the system of collection of dues and
of attendance. This calls for careful selection of membership directors, financial
secretaries, and the establishment of well-functioning commissions on a State,
county, assembly, or section scale.
The carrying out of the above decisions, accompanied by intensified education
and political discussion in all the organizations, by intensified political activity
in the shops, trade-unions, mass organizations, and the communities, will enable
us to go forward with the circulation drives of the three Party dailies, to extend
our agitation among the broad masses, and to carry through intensive recruiting.
Onward in building the Party, to make of it the dynamic force moving the
masses toward achieving a powerful antifascist democratic front !
0 * m * * * *
Report on the Training of Cadres Between the 9th and IUth Conventions
OF THE Party
This report covers the activities of the School Commission between the 9th and
10th Conventions, and deals with the work of the districts.
Only 13 districts sent in reports, some only partial reports. The School Com-
mission can report to the Central Committee marked progress in its work.
During this period 2 National Training Schools of 6 months' duration each
were held. One hundred twenty comrades studied in these schools. (See at-
tached report of Comrade Siskind.) To supplement the National Training
School, 3 regional schools were organized : 1 for Minnesota and adjacent States
(19 students), 1 for the South (15 students), and 1 by the Illinois State Organiza-
tion and adjacent States (see appended reports).
A special school for the training of forces to work among the Negro people was
organized. This was a 10-week school, with 24 comrades attending. A school
was contemplated to train forces for work among the National Groups; it was
planned but did not materialize due to lack of funds. The New York State
organization held a 3-week school for Spanish comrades, and a similar school was
just completed hy the Texas organization. More attention to Ihis phase of work
must be paid in the future, and the National Groups mobilized for this purpose.
Besides the above-mentioned schools, the School Commission, jointly with
the New York State organization, held during the summers of 1936 and 1V)37
5-week, full-time schools for professionals aud industrial workers, to train
teachers. P'or the summer of 1938. 3 such schools are being organized with
about 150 students— 2 in New York for the Eastern Section of the country and
1 in Chicago for the Midwestern States. A number of excellent forces for
educational and other activities came forward as a result of these schools.
Another item of importance in this connection is the following: Last sum-
mer. Comrade Stachel recommended that we mobilize some professionals and
send them, during their vacation, to teach classes in the smaller cities and
factory towns. "While last summer only 5 comrades were sent out, this sum-
mer, as a result of these schools, we will be able to send out about 30 comrades.
The.se comrad(»s pay their own expenses. The larger state organizations should
take the initiative to organize their own summer schools for comrades, and
thus make a valuable addition to their educational forces.
Another type of school that the School Commission will concentrate on this
summer and help develop in the districts, is the full-time. 9-day or 2-week
school, especially for trade-union functionaries. These comrades take vacations
and in most cases can pay the expenses incurred. They can discuss funda-
mentally, on a broad theoretical basis, the problems facing the Party, and as
a result become more politically alert to their tasks.
g722 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
STATES A^D DISTRICTS
During this period we can note not only a remarkable growth in the number
of schools and classes, but also the development of new types and forms.
In New York, besides the full-time day schools, conducted by the State and
County Committees (New York), the full-time evening school, 3 to 5 evenings
a week, is organized on a section and county scale. This form is well suited
to the training of comrades for leadership in units, branches, and in mass
organizations: but for the general training of the membership, this is insuflB-
cient. For this, additional and more elastic forms should be developed. Analy-
sis of the composition of these evening (full time) schools, shows that the
average worker cannot attend school 5 evenings a week, in the first place. In
the second place, there are not as yet enough trained forces to man these
schools.
In Ohio and California, 1- to 2-day week-end classes were organized, with
great success. Factory workers, especially in heavy industry, attend this type
of class more readily. California and Massachusetts have also adopted the
circuit school method, where a comrade travels and teaches classes in dif-
ferent towns. Illinois succeeded in organizing classes also for Non-Party
workers, members of trade-unions. Good progress was made by New York,
California, Ohio, Illinois, and Philadelphia, in these schools.
Before the 9th Convention of the Party the 2- to 6- week full-time schools were
the predominant tyiies. After the 9th Convention, especially in 1937-38, full-time
schools of 12 weeks' duration were organized (New York). The reports indicated
that there were held :
21 schools from 2 to 12 weeks 425 students.
10 schools from 1 to 2 week.s 247 students.
22 week-end schools 385 students.
Numerous classes — 3 to 5 evenings — in which Branch and Unit functionaries
were trained were conducted during this period.
Notwithstanding the general advance made by a number of districts, some im-
portant disti-icts lag sadly behind, when we consider the problems facing them.
This is due not wholly to the absence of forces, but rather to the failure to con-
centrate on this problem and find a solution. Proof that most districts can at
least partially solve the problem of training their own forces is Minneaiwlis,
where Comrade Darcy paid special attention to the training of personnel and
promoted this phase of work, and Ohio, where Comrades Williamson and Winters
made a special concentration on the training of cadres.
THE SOUTH
Texas and Florida are doing some good work in this field. Alabama is coming
along, but most states cannot develop this work with their own forces at present.
Help must be given to them, and the best foini foi" the present would be circuit
schools. A suitable comrade should be assigned to the South to this task by the
Central Committee.
The School Commission imid special attention to the training of Southern com-
rades by organizing the Southern Regional School in Philadelphia. Students
came from Philadelphia, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Washington, D. C,
Florida, Alabama, Louisiana, Missouri, and Arkansas. The entire orientation of
the school was toward the problems of the South. In addition to the curriculum
which was planned by the School Commission, there were special lectures by
leading district and national comrades on s(mie outstanding current developments.
Supplementary to, and as part of their theoretical training, the students attended
a number of meetings of Party organizations in Philadelphia. This type of activity
proved very valuable in that it gave the students a picture of the various activities
in which the Party is engaged. The composition of the student body showed that
greater attention must be paid by the districts to the problem of selection. All the
comrades made considerable progress, and the school helped to develop a number
of good forces for work in the South.
EDUCATION FOR WORK AMONG THE NEGRO PEOPLE
All schools had a fair representation of Negro comrades, but continued concen-
tration on this phase of the work must be exerted. Progress was made through
the organization of the James W. Ford Training School for work among the Negro
people.
UX-AMEKICAN l'UUl'A(iA.\J)A ACTlViTlES 8723
StudcMits wtnv presoMit from the following states: Coiiiiccticnt, New York, l\nin-
sylvania, Ohio. Mit-liisan, Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama,
Virgiuin, and Maryland. Tho core of the curriculum w.is History of the Net^ro
people, the Problems of the Negro people lu the United States, and the solution
of these pi-oblems. The National Negro Congress, and the devilopment of the
United Negro I'eople's Front generally, received special attention. All other
subjects were built around this central core. The comrades at all times showed
great interest in current struggles and discussed the problems before the Party
continually. This showed itself especially in their study of the material on the
trial of the Kight-Trotskyite bloc of assassins, and in the discussion of the draft
resoluiions of the Tenth Party Convention.
The main aim of the Centr.-il Connnittce in establishing this school was accom-
plished, and a number of important forces for work in the South and among the
Negro people generally were given a political foundation. The Southern Re-
gional School, with a composition of about 509^ Negro comrades, also contributed
to this work.
THE AGKICUL'nTR.VI. AHEAS
In the present situation, it is very important to train forces for work in the
countryside as rapidly as possible. We must admit that not nmch was done in
this field. The state organizations have not as yet undertaken to solve this
problem in a serious manner. The next task of the School Commission, with
the cooperation of the Agricultural Connnission, must be to find ways and means
to develop this work. The districts must, nevertheles.s, them.selves start some
activities, and this concerns all districts of the Party.
WOMKN
The number of women in our schools and classes has increased. But me must
admit that not enongh is being done to train women in the trade-unions, auxil-
iaries, ma.ss organizations, domestics, and hou.sewives. Very often it is advisable
to organize special classes for women to discuss the problems that interest them
especially.
YOUTH
Some help was given to the youth, and all schools had a fair proportion of
comrades active in Y. C. L. work. The educational work in the Y. C. L. has been
extended ; nevertheless, not enough schools were organized by the Y. C. L. to
train leaders for the American youth. No .special help was given by the districts
to the Y. C. L. The entire Party must help the Y. C. L. establish full-time
schools for the training of forces. A national .school for 30 conn'ades to last two
months is planned for this Fall.
QtJANTITY AND (iUALiri'
The leap the Party made in the m;mber of schools and classes during the
last year did not always result in tlie proportional increase in the quality of our
work. To improve the quality of our work, persistent and conscious efforts must
be made. It is necessary to pay particular attention to:
(ff) Selection. — The selection of comrades to the National Training School
improved, but the same cannot be said about the comrades sent to the other
.schools. The instructions of Comrade Browder in regard to selection are not
lived up to in many cases. Sending a comrade to a full-time school is a real
promotion, and the decision of our Conventions and the policy of the Central
Committee as to the promotion of cadres must be adhered to.
(b) Planninff. — We can state that all schools organized by the Central Com-
mittee are well planned as to physical arrangements, program, and per.sonnel.
The same cannot be said for all State and District schools. There as yet is too
much left to chance. (In most cases, this is due to the absence of ((ualified
teachers and organizers.) Schools, in the words of Comrade Browder, j)roduce
our means of production. As in all Socialist production, two things are essential,
good material and skill. We must produce that skill. It can be produced in
two ways: (1) assign the most experienced comrades to organize and lead the
school work; and (2) "educate the educators."
(c) Method. — The main pi-olilem in Conununist education is concreteness, the
unity of theory and practice, the integration of our main aim with the problems
facing the Party at the present historical moment, and the connection of daily
8724 UN-AMERICAN PROI'AGANDA ACTIViTIES
tasks with those problems. Otherwise, the whole thing becomes abstract. Spe-
cial attention to this problem is now urgent in all the school work.
(d) Curricull of our schools must be worked out in detail. It must take into
consideration not only the general Party program, but also the peculiar problems
and historical background of that section of the population to which the comrade
will carry the message of the Party. The political development of the comrades,
their background, and the specific situation, as well as the problems confronting
that part of the country, plus the time available for these schools, must be the
basis for the organization of the curriculi. In the National School for special
training in Negro work, for instance, material on the history of the Negro people
in the United States, their problems and the solution of these problems by the
Party, and the developing movements among the Negro people were made the
core of the curriculum. Other sub.ieets were made to fit in this scheme. In this
manner, the course was made interesting, alive, and concrete.
(e) Reading Material. — Special attention should be devoted to the careful selec-
tion and preparation of suitable material for our course, integrating the basic
teachings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin, with the problems confronting the
Party. Together with this, comrades in all Party schools should be taught to
understand the decisions of the Party and recognize that speeches of Comrade
Browder and other leading members of the Central Committee are directives to
follow ; that the "Daily Worker" and the "Communist" are the mobilizing instru-
ments of the Party for the carrying out into life of the tasks facing us.
(f) Apparatus. — A factor that tends to hinder the constant political quality of
the work of the schools is the tendency to transfer comrades who are making
good in this field of work to other activity, on the one hand. On the other hand,
comrades who continue in educational activities and especially in school work are
seldom drawn into participation in the leading bodies of the Section, County, or
State. This by itself tends to make those comrades less sensitive to the problems
facing the Party. In too many cases, educational activity is considered of
secondary importance and comrades accept it with reluctance. We must see to
it that in all cases the comrades put in charge of this work must be members of
leading bodies of the Party. In this way they can help the other comrades
orientate in the problems, tasks, and tactical line of the Party ; otherwise, the
schools will not always enable the Party to produce "politically trained and
technically skilled leading people" (Browder).
The tasks ahead are :
(1) To extend our activities not only to the large cities, but also to the smaller
cities and towns. More evening classes, week-end and full-time schools must be
organized. The existing Workers' Schools must be strengthened and new ones
opened. Circuit schools must be established where permanent classes cannot be
organized.
(2) To improve the quality of our w<irk, text books and study material must
be produced. The publication and distribution of Marxist-Leninist literature by
our Party has grown enormously. Nevertheless, the production of study material
still lags. This problem was repeatedly discussed and some steps taken to remedy
the situation, but we must admit that we have not as yet succeeded. We must
have I'eading material, ttxt books, and up-to-date outlines for all schools and
classes. They must be individualized and adapted to the section of the country,
industry, or particular section of the population from which the comrades come
and in which they will be active. To carry out this task, the School Commission
must establish a special department with a qualified comrade in charge.
(3) To train teachers and organizers for school w(U'k. Comrades who were
graduated from the National Training School and other important schools, should
help in this work.
(4) There is a demand for a Marxist-Leninist Correspondence Institute or Uni-
versity. Units and individual comrades away from the central points, sympa-
thizers, militant workers and farmers, professionals, etc.. seek clarification on
the Party program and help in the understanding (tf Mnrxism-Leninism, as well as
answers to ever-more complex problems. We must reach them and give them that
heljj. This can be accomplished through an established correspondence institute.
Many colleges and univei-sities conduct courses in this manner. The American
people are used to this method of study. We do not have to follow the capitalist
methods, but we can adapt them to our needs. The forces are here. They may
need some training. But on the whole, it is high time to organize such courses.
Recognizing these problems, the Central Committee has at present assigned
some valuable additional forces to the School Commission. With the close coop-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8725
eration of the State and District Committer's, we can extend our worli, imiirove
its quality, and be of real help in transforming our Party into a real Bolshevik,
mass Party.
Comradely submitted.
ScHooi- Commission Central Committee.
UOPWA
Cio-16
Lessons of the Primary Campaign
The fact that the slate of Thomas Kennedy for govei'nor polled over half a mil-
lion voti's in the Democratic primaries in iNIay was a victory for labor. The large
vote for Lieutenant Governor Kennedy, secretary-treasurer of the United Mine
Workers Union, was a signal to the democratic chieftains that labor must be
reckoned with in the councils of the Party. The large Kennedy vote checked
those reactionaries within the Democratic Party who wanted to ignore labor in
formulating the program and in the key positions of the Party. Primarily, the
half million votes represented the great strength of labor in the State of Pennsyl-
vania. The great United Mine Workers and the Steel Workers Organizing Com-
mittee of the C. I. O.. together with other powerful C. I. O. unions in the basic
industries of Pennsylvania, such as hosiery, and textile, radio, and other indus-
tries, had succeeded in becoming powerful factors in the political life of the state,
together with the progressives in the A. F. of L. and the Railroad brotherhoods.
The Kennedy slate was also successful in the farm counties, carrying most of the
counties of the state and losing out mainly in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, where
they also polled substantial votes in spite of strong machines against them.
The half million votes for Kennedy was a victory for the New Deal. The com-
bined Democratic vote totalled 1,300,000, for the three slates running. All thi-ee
of these slates professed their acceptance of the New Deal and of Roosevelt as
their leader. The New Deal was not the main issue. The issue was whether
labor was to play a role in the councils of the Democratic Party. The outcome
was that labor, by polling a half million votes from labor — both C. I. O. and A. F.
of L.- — from farmers and middle class professionals, became a commanding factor
in the state political set-up.
The Democratic Party, however, emerged from the primaries with some
difficulties that must be overcome to insure victory against reaction. First,
all progressive forces in the state must be activized, especially the decisive
labor forces and the most progressive elements supporting the Kennedy ticket.
Old sores which in some cases linger must be healed up by the bringing
forward of labor to its i-ightful place in the Democratic ranks.
The CtJmmunist Partj-, in putting up its own ticket, makes its main aim
the victory of democracy over reaction. At this time the achievement of
.socialism is not possible. The main issue of this compaign is not socialism
versus capitalism. The main issue of the campaign is progress, democracy,
and securty, against reaction, union smashing, and fascism. It is this realiza-
tion that prompts the Communist Party to make as its main aim, not the
rolling up of a record vote for its own ticket, but by the independent cam-
paign conducted by the Communist Party, to insure to the defeat of Reaction-
ary Republicanism.
The Communist Party puts up its own candidates in the present elections
(Mother Bloor for Governor, Pat Toohey for United States Senator, and
Benjamin Caeruthers for Lieutenant Governor, in order to facilitate the work
of the party in organizing the democratic front of all progressives in the
state to defeat reaction. The Communist Party, in putting up its own
ticket, points out the shortcomings in the program of the Democratic Party.
We put forward our own program and platform in the present elections, the
platform adopted at the 10th National Convention of the Party and adapted
to the needs of the state. We point out the need, in order to insure victory,
for the denifK-rats to rai.se relief standards, to champion the demands of
the Negro people, the fanners, the youth, the middle class in the cities. We
bring before tlie people the need for an aggressive campaign to back Presi-
dent Roosevelt's program for quarantining the aggres.sor nations who are now
trying to spread war throughout the world. We organize the people to defend
democratic Spain and China. We bring before the people an exposure of
the reactionary character of red-baiting. We educate the people as to the
8726 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIYITIES
need for socialism if poverty, war, and unemployment are finally to be abolished
and jioint to the shining example of the Soviet Union which has created a new
socialist society. We stimulate all progressive forces into activity.
If the election campaign is to be won for progress and democracy, labor must
be brought forward as an outstanding part of the leadership of the Democratic
Party. The independent organizations of the workers, Labor's Non-Partisan
League, Progressive Voters Leagues and othei- independent organizations of
labor must be brought forward and galvanized into action as one of the main
forces for again manifested by the statement of William Green endorsing the
reactionary Davis. The fact that James McDevitt, head of the Pennsylvania
State Federation of Labor, has denounced Green's strike-breaking and splitting
statement and that other state leaders of the A. F. of L. are preparing to follow
suit, and .loin with McDevitt in endorsment of the Jones-Earle slate, shows that
Green is having a harder and harder time to prevent trade uruon unity in
Pennsylvania. Trade Union unity of the C. I. O., together with the member-
ship of the A. F. of L. is necessary on an increasing scale if reaction is to be
defeated.
In order to insure victory over reaction, the Democratic Party must draw the
necessary lessons from the primaries and vigorously champion the rights of the
Negro people and the demands of the farmers. <^nly by bringing forward the
needs of these large sections of the population can the Democratic Party hope
to defeat reaction.
Rbpgiit of Centrat. Co.ntrol Commission C. P. V. S. X. to the Tenth Nation.ax
Convention, End of May 1938
The work of the C. C. C. during the past two years, since the 9th Convention
of the Party, has, in the miiin. followed the same general lines that prevailed
during the preceding two years (betwen the 8th and 9th Conventions), and the
results, shortcomings and lessons of this work are also practically the same.
In the matter of getting proper and prompt reports on all disciplinary cases
arising in the various districts, sections, and units of the Party, the C. C. C.
has obtained slightly better results than previously, but there are still a few
districts which continue to neglect this necessary routine.
In the handling of appeals, in the passing upon public exposures, and in
dealing directly with cases involving national functionaries or otherwise re-
quiring C. C. C. attention, it merits recording that, without a single exception
the proceedings and (lecisions of the C. C. C. have always met with unqualilied
approval of the Polburo and the Central Committee of the Party.
The shortcoming of not having given sufficiently wide publicity to lessons that
can be drawn from certain individual cases, or from certain categories of cases,
still remains; although by correspondence and by circulars sent out for dis-
tribution to all sections and isolated units, the C. C. C. has drawn attention to
them, has repeatedly called for greater vigilance against class enemies, and.
as pointed out in C. C. C. report to the Ninth Convention, has urged action
directed toward "preventing, precluding and obviating violations of Party poli-
cies and discipline, various deviations from the Party line, factionalism, bu-
reanciacy, financial irresponsibility, and lack of care in the selection of func-
tionaries and of candidates."
FINANCIAJ. CONTROL
In agreement with the Central Committee of the Party, the C. C. C. has taken
upon itself, since the middle of 1987, the additional task of sui^ervising the
audits of the financial books and records of the Central Committee and of its
enterprises.
The C. C. C. is, therefore, in a position to certify that such audits have been
pi-operly made, and that the financial reports submitted to this Convention are
correct.
In October 1937. the C. C. C. issued to all Party managers, treasurers, ac-
countants and auditors a set of rules and guiding points on accounting and
auditing applicable to larger enterprises. The necessity for proper budgeting,
for keeping books up-to-date, for internal check-up and strict managerial c(mtrol,
and for pi'oper audits cannot be overemphasized. Strict attention must be paid
to financial questions and to auditing arrangements on the ijart of comrades
holding responsible posts in mass organizations, especially trade unions.
UX-AMEIUCAN PKOIWCANDA AniViriKS 8727
GENI':RAL STA'ITJS OF niSCIPLlNK
Oil the basis of statistics of (lisciplinary cast's for VM(i and 1!):^, as comyarod
with previous years, it can l)e deliiiitely stated that the j^eiicral status of discipline
in tlie Party has continued to improve very substantially.
While the average number of expulsions per year during 11)33, 1934, and 193")
was 343, the average for 1936 and 1937 is only 188. Yet the Party membership
has at the same time more than doubled, so that the rate of expulsions has fallen
from an average of 1:M% for 1933-34-35, to only 0.4% for 193t>-37.
A detailed schedule of disciplinary cases for 1936 (analyzed by districts and by
causes) was sulimitted to the June 1937 Plenum of tlie Central Connnittee.
The detailed schedule for 1937. submitted herewith, show.s that the highest rate
of expulsions (for 1937) obtained in Nebraska: namely, over l&%, half of which
(5 cases) was for Trotskyism. Next, in order, come — Utah with 1.18% and Iowa
with 1.109r. Among the larger districts (wliere percentages begin really to
mean something), Distr. 6 (Cleveland) leads with .93%; then comes D. 12
(Seattle) with .67% ; then D. 13 (Calif.) with .57% : and then D. 2 (New York)
with .47%.
As to causes, the greatest number of 1937 expulsions fall into the category of
general irre.sponsibility (drunkenness, moral loo.sene.ss, etc.), namely, 42 cases (or
approx. 17% of the total). Next, in order, come — 37 cases of general unreliabil-
ity (politically untrustworthy, spy suspects, etc.) ; then 36 cases of Trotskyism (or
approx. 15%), 21 of general disruption. 15 of financial dislionesty (thieves and
.swindlers), 15 spies, 11 financially irresp<insible, 10 careerists and turn-coats,
8 Lovestonoites, etc.
The number of inner disciplinary actions (censures, removals, warnings) has
also decreased from 197 cases in 1935 to an average of 104 in 1936 and 1937 (96
cases in 1936 and 112 in 1937). The largest single category of the latter, as far
as causes are concerned, was under the head of general ii'responsibility ; namely, 22
cases (or about 20%). Financial irresponsibility (irregularities and looseness)
accounted for 12 cases (or about 10%).
Of readmissions into the Party of previously expelled persons, there were 31 in
19a"i, 18 in 1936, and 40 in 1937.
It is noteworthy that there were 32 expulsions of Trotskyites in 1935, 12 in 1936,
iind 36 in 1037. For Lovestoneites. the corresponding figures were : 2 in 1935, none
in 1936, and 8 in 1937. These figures do not include expulsions from the YCL. It
must be recognized that there is now hardly any difference between the Trotskyites
and Lovestoneites, and that the Party must be especially on guard against these
unscrupulous cheats and disrupters, who, on every burning issue of the day,
actually serve as agents of fascism and reaction, while mouthing "left" phrases
luirelated to these issues.
With the growth of the Party and the still gi-eater growth of its influence,
increased vigilance is needed also against spies, swindlers, and careerists, who,
similarly to Trot.skyites and Lovestoneites, ti-y to sneak into the ranks of the
Party under false pretenses. The important provision of the proposed Party
Constitution, that only those are eligible for membership in the Party "whose
loyalty to the working class is uncpiestioned." must, therefore, be given serious
attention during the process of recruiting new members, especially of those whose
applications are secured in open meetings. If no endorser for an ay)plication can
be found, who would be satisfied on this point, then a discreet check-up can still
be made within a short time after the technical acceptance of the apulicntion. and
the acceptance can be voided if the check-up should result in negative findings.
The same precautions should be taken toward guarding against morally or
politically untrustworthy pei-sons (drunkards, degenerates, generally irresponsi-
Itle and Tuireliable) who are apt to bring discredit to the Party.
FUTURE TASKS OF THE C. C. C.
As reiterated in the proposed amended Constitution of th(> Party (Art. IX
and X, which provide also for changing the name to "National Control Com-
mission"), the C. C. C. will have, in the main, the same general tasks as durmg
the latter part of the period proceeding this Convention: 1) To act as the
central disciplinary body of the Party: 2) To supervise auditing; 3) In general,
to inculcate throughr.ut the Party the necessary vigilance against alien and
hostile elements.
As far as supervision of auditing is concerned, the Constitution clearly places
the financial books and records of the National Committee of the Party and its
8728 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
enterprises under these supervisions. It stands to reason tliat it may be ex-
tended to cover auditing rules in general and auditing vpork in various sub-
divisions of the Party in particular.
The duty to see that Party unity and discipline are properly maintained and
strengthened will involve responsibility for the functioning of the state or
district disciplinary committees according to certain general rules, including
the matter of getting prompt reports from lower subdivisions of the Party and
of transmitting these reports and reports on their own actions to the C. C. C.
It will involve making investigations and decisions on appeals and on such cases
as are referred to the C. C. C. by the Central Committee, etc., as provided in the
Constitution.
The C. C. C. will have to pay special attention also to what might be termed
"preventive work." Ways and means will have to be found for spreading
throughout the Party certain concrete lessons on guarding against alien and
hostile elements, against agents of the class enemy, and on exercising the neces-
sary vigilance in recruiting woi'k and in the selection and promotion of leading
personnel and public representatives of the Party.
Especially will this be necessary in view of the rapid growth of the Party and
the great increase of its influence among the widest masses of American
people.
Schedtile of expulsions for the year 1937
Abbrev. — (1) Lovestoneites ; (2) Trotskyites : (3) White Chauvinists; (4) Petty-
bourgpois Right Opportunists; (5) Careerists and turncoats; (6) Unprincipled factional-
ist.s ; (7) Generally Disruptive; (8) Gen. Irresponsible (drunkards, etc.) ; (9) Financially
irresponsible; (10) Fin. Dishonest (thieves and swindlers); (11) Gen. Unreliable (spy
suspects, scabs, etc.) ; (12) Spies and provocateurs.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
8729
;s*
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3730 un-amp:rican propaganda activities
Inner DiscipUnary Actions, 19S7
Fin.
Irresp.
& Loose
Gen.
irresp.
Viola P.
Line
Disrup-
tive
Miscl.
Tot.
1936
Tot.
2. N. Y
3
9
6
4
2
3
3
36
6
55
17
3
2
7
3
14
3
1
1
1
1
2
2
66
3. Phila
1
6 Ohio
3
3
7. Mich
1
1
1
8. Ill
1
4
3
2.
2
2
3
12. Wash
13. Calif -.. . -.-.
2
1
1
4
18
14. N. J
1
18 Wise
19. Colo
1
1
20 Te\
23. Kv
1
1
2
25. Fla
1
"" "
2
34. Md
1. N. E
1
Total:
12
7
22
14
7
11
15
10
56
54
112
96
96
1936
Readmissions, 1937
Lov-ites.
Trot-
ites.
Oppor-
tun.
Irresp.
Miscl.
Tot.
1936
Total
2. N. Y
1
14
2
1
14
1
29
3
1
1
1
1
3
12
6. Ohio
7. Mich
8. Ill
1
1
10. Nebr
1
1
12. Wash
1
13. Cal
3
19. Colo
1
20. Tex
1
1
2
26. S. D
1
May 1938.
ReS'OKT OiN P^ARM WORK AND OUR TASKS
MATERIAL FOR THE FARM COMMISSION, TENTH PARTY CONVENTION
Review. — The Ninth Party Convention and the snbsequent Central Committee
meetings have stressed the importance of uniting the progressive farm movement,
of building the farmer-labor alliance, and of organizing tlie unorganized farmers
to defeat reaction in rural districts. There have been definite advances in the
direction of these objectives.
Unity. — In the Mid-West the Farm Holiday Association and in the South Share
C'roppers Union united with the National Farmers Union last year. Independent
groups in New York, Louisiana, and California are being urged to unite with
the Farmers Unit)ii.
Cniit/hlinite Influence. — Two years ago the Coughlinites were choking every-
thing progressive in the Farmers Union. Last year the Coughlinites were elimi-
nated from leadership in the Alabama Farmers' Union and they suffered defeats
in Ohio and Pennsylvania. In the last National Convention of the Union, the
last of the Coughlinites were eliminated from national leadership. The progres-
sive leaders have revoked the ('ouglilinite-controUed charters in Minnesota and
Michigan with the aim of restoring them to active progressive elements at the
next convention. Coughlinites remain in control of "vest pocket" State unions in
Illinois and Indiana and maintain influence in the Iowa Union. A more vigorous
campaign against Coughlinite elements is needed to stop them from splitting the
Union, to remove tliein from leadership completely in all Farmers Union States,
and to check their efforts to block progressive action in the Union.
F(urmer-Lnhor Alliance. — The chartering of the United Cannery, Agricultural,
Packing, and Allied Workers of America by the C. I. O. last year gave birth to a
rapid organizing drive among farm and cannery workers. The Union has grown
UN-AMEKICAN l'H(H'A(L\2<DA ACTIVITIKS 8731
to IIS.OOO nu'inlun-s. Witli its policy of c-oopoiiition with small faiiiiois. it is the
most imiiortant sinuU^ factor in the development of a farmer-labor alliance.
While in several States the Fanners (luion was actively cooperatin.L' with labor,
the last national convention authorized the National Hoard to work out forms of
cooperation with labor on a permanent basis. This was done last December when
the Farmers Union sijjned a leKislativo pact with Labor's Nou-1'artisan League
and the C. I. O., and, hiter, when this agreement was extended to include efforts
to have consumer cooperatives deal directly with the farmers. Other farm organ-
izations in New York. California, and Louisiana are cooperating with hibor.
While good begiimings have been made to develop farmer-labor political confer-
ences and other forms of cooperation in every rural area.
Organization. — The Farmers Union has appointed Southern and Eastern Organ-
izing Committees which can serve as a springboard for mass organizing drives.
The possibilities of uniting all progressive farm leaders, with the cooperation of
labor, for a national organizing drive among small farmers are very good and
every effort should be made to crystiiUize this movement as soon as possible.
Ohio and Massachusetts have made small beginnings in this work. In Minnesota
a real organizing drive is under way.
Rracliouniii MorenirtUx. — The pro-fascist Associated Farmers on the We.st
Coast have already spread into seven Rocky Mountain states with the immediate
objective of crushing organization of agricultural and other Uibor. Here it is very
important to organize small farmers in alliance with labor as quickly as possible
to defeat this movement. The Corn Belt Liberty League has sprung up in the hist
month to corral farm support to defeat the New Deal in the elections. Here it is
important to expand the Farmers Union and other pro-New Deal farm groups to
aefeat this movement.
Party Btiildinff. — In Alabama seventy, and in Minnesota and Wisconsin sixty,
farmers were recruited during the Party Building Drive. It was in these states
that the best advances were made in mass f.irm work. Some of the larger districts
either failed to recruit farmers or recruited very few, so the percentage of farmers
in the Party has declined nationally. While some Districts are recognizing this
weakness, especially in the elections, the Party as a whole must lose no time in
recruiting large luimbers of farmers.
The ground work for much greater progress in the future has thus been laid,
and with full cooperation of the Districts, the movement among farmers should
grow much faster.
Economic SlitiKition. — The developing economic crisis is bringing even greater
destitution to small farmers. The ratio of farm to non-farm prices dropped from
101 in January 1937 to 81 in January 1938. or 20%. Its significance is better
understood by comparison with the same index from August 1929 to August 1930.
when the drop was 18.2%.
National farm income dropped from $10.5 billion in 1929 to .$4..") billion in 1932.
and last year it had increased to only $8.3 billion (including AAA subsidies).
while farm population has increased by 1.500.000. In 1937 the average per capita
cash farm income was still 19% less than 1929. Considering that in 1929 fifty per-
cent of the fanners marketed only 11% of the cash crops, the per capita income
for these families was oidy $74. Now. the bottom half of the farmers is getting
even less. About a million farmers have been receiving some form of relief from
the government.
The niimber of 3 to 9 acre (subsistence) farms increased by 70%, as compared
to an 8% increase for all farms between 1930-35. Farm tenancy increased 7.5%
iji the same period. Concentration of land ownership in the 1935 Census report
by the fact that 18.6% (»f all farms (those 175 acres and over) had ()(16% of all
land in farms.
While total mortgage indebtediK'ss declined from $9 billions to $7.5 billion
between 1930-35. this was accomplished by foreclosures on over 1,300.000 farms.
Today there are more than l.tiOD.OtU^ owner-operated farms under mortgage and
the averiig(> size of mortgages have increased fi'om 40 to 50% of the farm value.
TTnpaid family labor on farms increased 2Vi times between 1930 and 1935. Total
agricultural wages dropped from $1 billion to half this figure in the same period.
In 1934 over 280,000 farmers reported off-the-farm earning as farm wage hands.
In 1929 only 7.S75 farms, each producing about ,$30,000 in crops, accounted for
11% of the total wages of farm labor. Eastern, Rocky Mountain, and Pacific Coast
states accounted for the highest expenditures for fiirm labor. An increase in the
use of farm machinery on large farms is also significant of the last 5 years.
It is evident that agriculture had not recovered from the last crisis and that
the vast majority of small farmers (owners and tenants) are in a much worse
3732 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
condition at the beginning of the present crisis. The capitalist development on
large farms is proceeding. Small farmers are being driven into greater poverty,
tliousands of them off the land, and many more thousands out of commercial pro-
duction. Mass struggles of farmers for existence on the land will increase as the
effects of the crisis get sharper.
Democratic front. — The largest farm organizations (the National Grange,
with 800,000 members, the Farm Bureau Federation, with 410,000 members,
and most of the cooperatives, with a total of 3,280,000 members), suffer from
conservative, bureaucratic leadership that lines up with reaction against the
New Deal. However, these organizations have supported all New Deal farm
measures (with occasional reservations), and most of their programs oppose
fascism but support isolationist peace policies. The bulk of the members are
small and middle-sized farmers who traditionally hate Wall Street. The con-
servative leaders are being forced into the position of having their members
demanding better farm legislation and more farm aid, while they still support
reactionary Republicans who advocate "hands off the farmer"'. Tlie possibility
of progressive New Deal and labor forces drawing these organizations into a
broad democratic front movement against the trusts and to improve the farm-
ei's' welfare should be explored everywhere.
The American Youth Congress made a beginning in work among rural and
farm youth. As a result, progressive farm youth leaders, in cooperation with
the AYC, are planning for a Rural Youth Congress. The 4-H C'lubs, Future
Farmers of America, Farmers Union Juniors, Junior divisicms of the Grange
and Farm Bureau, the American Country Life Association, and so on, are being
involved in this movement. Every possibility of furthering a Rural Youtli
Congress and the election of progressive youth leaders should be encouraged,
and similarly, support for the World Youth Congress in August, with special
emphasis on convincing young people of a collective security peace program.
The progressive movement should initiate Farmer-labor conferences every-
where possible, on the basis of the Farmers Union-LNPL agreement, to further
develop tlie democratic front movement and influence the members of the
larger farm organizations. In every election campaign, the progressive forces
should put forward a clear program for farmers and secure full participation
of farm groups in the campaigns.
While the New Deal has tackled a few of the major farm problems, the
results are far from satisfactory, with a strong tendency to benefit only the
middle and large farmers.
The Agricultural Adhustmcnt Act has raised prices of the major crops
through curtailment of production. The prices are far below cost of pi'oduction
and amendments to raise prices to approach cost of production should be
proposed. Also, protection for small farmers by establishing the average
production on a family-sized farm as the minimum marketing quota should be
proposed. Soil conservation work under the AAA should be increased.
The Farm Tenant Act was passed after a five-year struggle for a land
program. It is supposed to provide loans to reliabilitate tenants and share-
croppers, to refinance heavily mortgaged farmers and for purchase of farms
by landless farmers. Reactionaries in Congress sabotaged this program through
limitation of funds. One of our chief demands should be for large increases in
the appropriations for the Farm Security Administration.
The Agricultural Marketing Agreements Act empowers the Department of
Agriculture to work out agreements between farmers and dealers to regulate
marketing and establisli minimum prices for milk, fruits, and vegetables. This
Act should be revised to insure adequate protection for the farmers, and
guard against Trust control.
A Production Loan, Appropriation of $50 million has been autliorized by ('on-
gress each year since 1931 to provide credit for farmers. Tlie size of this appro-
priation should be enlarged and administration transferred from the conservative
Farm Credit Administration to the Farm Security Administration.
A key demand for each of these measures is More Democracy. — In every case
these measures should be amended to insure control by small farmers. The
struggle for democratic control in the county and state administrative committees
will sharpen the conflict between farmers and the bankers and landlords and
guarantee all possible benefits from legislation to the farmers.
The Federal Land Banks, which hold 40% of the farm mortgage debt and own
about 10% of the farm land outright, are in danger of being taken over by the
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
8733
Wall Street bankers. The progressive movement should demand ccinthmed
government control plus thorough changes in policg to democratize them and make
them serve the interests of the small farmers instead of bailing out the insurance
companies.
Around the larger towns and cities, labor and farmers should cooperate to
establish either farmer or municipal control of marketing to reach the consumer
by the shortest route and eliminate racketeers and middlemen. This direct form
of farmer-labor cooperation can win the support of independent grocers and
consumers. Fanners should be encouraged to place a Union Label on their
dairy products, fruits and vegetables.
State and national programs should include demands for mortgage moratoriums,
increased relief, protection and financial aid for cooperatives, cairbing of the
trusts and monopolies, rural electrification, homestead tax exemption up to
^lO.OCX) and the graduated land tax. liberal production credit, and so forth.
In all cases, the fanners must be urged to support a collective security peace
policy. So far, the strongest isolationist tendencies exist among rural people.
Through exploring and using all avenues of contact with farmers and farm
leaders, through development of a broad farmer-labor alliance, and through a
real party building drive among farmers, it will be possible to build a strong
democratic front iuvolving the masses of farmers for security, peace, and
democracy.
Principle Farm Organization Memberships by States
state
Total
Farmers
Grange
Farm
Bureau
Farmers
Union
All Co-ops
Inde-
pendent
New England
158. 240
177,000
191, 284
255, 146
196, 500
200, 835
231, 312
203, 302
199, 890
221, 986
884. 606
83, 303
278. 454
174, 590
133,600
213,312
501,000
150, 360
64, 826
84,381
170,216
311,683
273. 455
273, 783
253, 013
250,544
466, 470
197, 632
278,298
140. 000
135, 000
68, 000
80, 000
25, 000
10, 430
39, 000
500
19, 000
8, 500
29, 300
64, 100
28,350
1,500
38, 090
100
New York
124, 200
12, 000
Pennsylvania -
2,500
3,000
3.000
1,000
1,000
3,000
3,000
3.000
15, 000
8,000
1,000
4,000
16, 000
20,000
1,000
1,000
1,000
1,000
1,000
200
3,000
Ohio
167, 600
129, 600
160, 100
269, 630
332, 100
192, 500
259. 480
87, 630
Michigan -
Indiana -- -
Illinois -. - -
Minnesota - -
Wisconsin
Iowa - - --
North Dakota ,._
South Dakota . . _ . .
Missouri -. . ..
5,895
16, 227
8,130
174, 150
Kansas
15, 000
Nebraska .
150, 770
Oklahoma
Texas . .. .
14, 350
24, 150
350
1.000
5,780
9,090
19, 610
7,900
14, 565
California _..
22, 000
22, 000
35, 000
77, 380
1,000
Oregon
Washington
Louisiana
10,000
Mississippi
Alabama
Tennessee.
Arkansas ... .. .. .._
1,000
200
Georgia
Carolinas
7,900
4,427
12.600
Virginia . ..
Kentucky -
200
United States..
6, 812, 350
800,000
410, 000
110,000
3,280,000
Large
Cooperatives by commodities
Commodity
Number
Members
Business
Dairy Products ...
2,300
3, 125
1,197
1.082
164
926
1,906
750, OfK)
580, 000
410, 0(K)
158, 000
85,000
507,000
790,000
$440, 000, 000
Grain...
315, OfK), oon
Livestock
175. (KK\0(K1
Fniit <t Vegetables _ ..
200. 000, 0(K)
Poultry
53, 000. 000
Miscellaneous .
160, 000, 0110
Purchasing
187, 000, 0(K)
United States
10,700
3, 280, 000
1, 530, 000, 000
Note. — Grange, Co-op, and Independent Unions membership figures by states are not complete.
^734 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
May 1938.
Information MEMOBANDrM on thk People's He^vlth Issue
The question of the people's health is a major political issue. The toiling
masses are suffering from appallingly bad health conditions caused hy their
poverty and lack of medical care, and these must be remedied by political action.
These conditions are becoming increasingly more acute, especially in the slum
and poor rural districts, because of lowered standards of living produced by the
industrial crisis. The U. S. Public Health Service has completed a survey of
three-quarters of a million families which shows the devastating results of' the
last crisis. The shocking i-ates of sickness and premature death revealed in this
report are growing rapidly worse as the present crisis develops. The U. S.
Surgeon General, Dr. Thomas J. Parran, has stated, in testifying before the
Special Committee on Unemployment and Relief, on March 16, 1938, that:
"The great majority of the unemployed are unable to buy food, clothing, and
shelter. PraeticaHy all of them are unable to buy medical care on any basis.
None of them can bear the cost of catastrophic serious illness. The excess of
illness among the unemployed results from lowered standards of living which
they experience. Among i-elief families, there is more than 12 times the amount
of ix'rmarent disablement of the family head than among those in comfortable
circumstances."
The. National Health Survey revealed that every year, 40,000 young people
between the ages of 15i-45 die from the ravages of tuberculosis. Proper care
would cut the death rate by 507'-. Every year, 75,000 infants are still-born and
more than 60,000 more die during the first month of life. With proper care,
these rates could be cut in half. IH.OOO women die in child-birth every year in
the U. S. More women have died in child-birth in this country, most of them
needlessly, during the jjast 20 years than there were casualties of American
soldiers on the battlefields dui'ing the World War. 757r of the materual deaths
are preventable. Among the Negro people, statistics of infant and maternal
deaths are nearly twice as great as amcnig whites. The devastating diseases,
silicosis, which destroys the lungs of workers, is one of the worst occupational
diseases.
In niatters of public health, this country stands today where it was in relation
to public education during the middle of the last century. Then, poor iteople
could not send their children to private elementary schools run for profit. Poor
people today are without adequate medical care, though this is a necessity of
life. Throughout the country, many health movements are on foot, initiated by
public as well as private agencies. A welter of legislative bills are pending in
many state legislatures and in Congress dealing with some angle or other of
the people's health question. Among the doct(U'S, the 430 insurgents, who de-
clared that the health of people is "a direct ccnicern of the governnu'ut,'' are
ripe for action in support of a people's health movement. This open opposition
movement among the physicians in the American Medical Association has now
increased to nearly 1,0(10 members. Tliere is a strong movement for a Federal
health program, in which the Roosevelt Administration is displaying interest.
The Committee on Econcimic Security, in its report to President Roosevelt, de-
clared in favor of a "nation-wide Public Health Program, financially and tech-
nically aided by the Federal Government." Similarly, the C. I. O.. the A. F. of L.,
the A. L. P., and many other mass organizations, including the I. W. O. and
Workers Alliance, have taken a stand on this issue. The masses are increasingly
demanding the right to health, with their other demands for social security.
It is of the utmost Importance that we participate in all of these movements.
It is necessary that our forces participate in all health issues alTecting the
people and that our forces shall attach themselves to the existing health agencies
in all communities to give support and leadership on so imijortant a political
issue. In every State Connnittee, a Party Health Connnission should be set
up to take the initiative in developing the fight for the health needs of the people.
A partial solution to the question of bringing adequate medical care to the
masses is through a compuUory national hvalth-ivxurauce plan, to be i)aid for by
taxation upon the rich. This should include full medical, diagnostic, preventive,
and curative care, with periodic medical examinations included as a preventive
measure. The demand should be raised for pcojAe'n health eenter>< in every com-
munity, with the people represented in the administration to air their grievances
and adjust complaints. An important means to finance such centers would be
through W. P. A. health projects to supplement local and state funds. The
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8735
W. P. A. has already built 99 new hospitals and repaired 934 others, while
W. P. A. medical and dental clinics have performed services in 9,0IK>,(t(X) instances.
We might liiiht to extend the Social Security legislation to provide health
protection, adcipiate medical care, hcjilth insurance, maternity insurance, safe-
guards against occupational hazards, lil)eral Workmen's Compensation Laws, and
special provisions to protect women and young workers in industry, as a necessity
of life.
"Our Citizens." sa.vs the T". S. Surgeon General, Dr. Thomas .1. Parran, Jr.,
"should have an ecpial opportunity for health as an inherent right, coocpial with
the right to lih(>rty and the pursuit of haiipine.ss."
The American people, the progressive memliers of the medical profession who
now constitute a powerful opposition movement over the heads of the reac-
tionary hierarchy in the A. M. A., the trade unions, A. L. P. and Farmer-Labor
Parties, will rally to the struggle. The broadest possible united front can and
should be built around the issue to amend the Social Security Law. This move-
ment to meet the critical health needs of the masses opens up new channels for
strengthening the democratic front.
May 1938.
Repori on Negro Work
material for the negro commission, loth party con\'ention
The main slogan before the people of the coimtry is unity. We have the task
of achieving unity in the trade-union movement, unity of the nation, and we have
as the main instrument the democratic front as the immediate expression of this
unity. The line of the Party to pay special attention to the problems of the
Negroes and to begin a more intensified struggle around Negro rights.
When National Negro Unity was on the agenda in 1866-70, it was at that
point a struggle for the rights of the Negroes and against the oppressors. Fol-
lowing this unit.v the reactionaries gained ascendancy and thus we see the
basis of the unity of the people flows out of the slave days. This unity can be
achieved only on the basis of overcoming the reactionaries. This means struggle
against discrimination and also overcoming the contradiction that we are con-
fronted with in the struggle for the Negroes. The only way to overcome it is by
doing away with the special form of oppression that they face. The Negroes
must not wait for the whites to take on the burden and we must overcome the
resistance of the whites to do nothing about it. We must see the necessity of
impressing on the Negroes that the.v must fight in their own interest and that
the main instrument is the National Negro Congress. We must break down
the resistance among the white people to achieve the unity which is so necessary.
The main link now to be -seized is that link around employment discrimination
or limitation in employment opportunities. We have here not onl.v the need to
unify the Negroes and fight in the interests of the Negroes but many related
problem.s. We must take a stand against monopolies and the fascist organiza-
tions. The more we develop this campaign the easier will be the development
of the democratic movement.
Now we have a few lessons to draw from this because of the situation con-
fronting the Negroes. There is a tendency in Harlem to incite against the Jews,
against the small store keeper and not again.st the big corporations, the big
monopolies. In these there are very few Jews among the Board of Directors.
They are usually aryan. The reactionary forces in the Negro neighborhood seize
upon the fact that the Jews are small businessmen and say that they are the
main enemy. There is a lesson insofar as unity is concerned, unit.v between
Negroes and whites, unity in the trade unions. The key to the whole question
is an energetic fight both to organize the Negroes and to force through conces-
sions. Certain concessions have been gained from the monoiwlies ; Negroes have
been placed in jobs. With the aid of the Transport Workers" Union we hope to
have Negro bus drivers in 1938.
Now to move to the next point which was the discussion how to work among
the Negro people. We must find that main mass organization where the people
are and we must recognize that to be the church. A lot has been said on how
to get into the church. The best way is to join it or one of the many auxiliaries
in the church. Every one of us can join one of the organiztitions in the church
and there become leaders in the biggest mass organization among the Negroes.
They constitute S.OOO.OfX) out of the 13.()0<),0n0 in the United States. Another
thing in connection with the church is the Negro youth. The Negro youth to-
62626 — 41 — vol. 14 37
§736 UX-AMERICAN l'K0PAf4ANDA ACTIVITIES
clay, because of imemployinent faces demoralization. They face certain prob-
lems which make them snbject to propaganda of the fascists. They speak
favorably of Hitler and Mussolini and say that we need such people for this
country. They speak against discussion on political questions, but when it
comes to singing they sing and can teach others to sing. They come to branch
meetings only once a week and they do not utilize them.
We must get these comrades who can sing to open our meetings with songs.
They can also create songs, new songs in the interest of the people. Then we
have the actors in the Party. We have a movement of Negro actors and now
we have learned how to use little skits to get over a point. Tliey don't have to be
able to read to understand statements. We can utilize these people to put over
our political points and propaganda and education work of our sections and
districts.
For more than fifty years the A. F. of L. did almost nothing to organize
Negro labor. As a matter of fact it barred them through constitutional meas-
ures. The top leaders said, "You can't organize Negroes."
The Committee for Industrial Organization has organized more than a quarter
million in less than two years.
Why could the C. I. O. do it, and not the A. F. of L? Fir.st of all, the policy of
the C. I. O. is a correct one. It is a policy that states clearly, that all workers re-
gardless of race, creed, or color must be organized. Secondly, its correct policy
of industrial organization gives greater confidence to workers. The great mass
of workers are learning that their best interest can only be protected by such a
policy.
For many years the Executive Council of the A. F. of L. refused to grant the
Pullman Porters an International Charter, thus hampering the growth of this
labor organization. Under the leadership of A. Phillip Randolph, an Inter-
natidual Charter was finally won. Today tlie Brotherhood of Sleeping Car
Porters is a serious factor in the ranks of Negro labor.
Wherever Negro labor, under the A. F. of L. attempted to organize and pro-
tect itself agiiinst the employers, the discouraging hand of the Executive Council
of the A. F. of L. could be felt. The usual method of hamstringing Negro labor,
by the officialdom of the A. F. of L. was through "Federal" charters which tied
them to the apron strings of reactionaries like Green, Woll, and Hutchinson.
These people tried to place the blame for lack of Trade-Union Organization
amongst Negroes, not where it rightly belonged — upon their own shoulders.
They blamed the Negro workers.
The whole world knows that Negroes are loyal fighters when given half a
chance.
Until the C. I. O. was born, what little trade-union organization there was.
among Negroes, that is, the ones that joined the A. F. of L. joined in the
face of great difficulties. They joined in spite of the barriers erected by the
leadership of the American Federation of Labor.
We must state, however, that there were many white trade-unions who car-
ried on a rentless struggle against the destructive policy of the top ofiicialdom
of the A. F. of L. Men who saw many years ago, that only a policy of indus-
trial organization, a policy free of all forms of discrimination because of race,
creel, or color, would serve the best interest of the American working class.
Outstanding among these was Wm. Z. Foster.
Foster, and many other real builders of the American Labor movement, were
expelled from the American Federation of Labor by the same reactionary ele-
ments that are now in control of the Executive Council. The clique that is
leading the fight against C. I. O. This clique nuist be halted in its attack
on the labor movement. The labor movement must be united. The American
working class must be united into one powerful organization based upon the
principle of industrial unionism. The Committee for Industrial Organization
has shown the way.
Insofar as the Negro worker is concernetl, the C. I. O. has proven — if proof
were needed — that Negroes are ready, and eager to join the ranks of organized
labor. Not only are the Negro workers eager to join unions, Init, they have
demonstrated their willingness to go the limit in defense of the cause of
organized labor.
It is no accident that the C. I. O. has been able to organize over 250,(X)0
Negroes in the short space of 2 years. While the A. F. of L. during 57 years
of its existence reluctantly enrolled 40 to 50,01)0, and this under pressure.
The task coiifnmting oi;r entire party on the question of trade-union unity,
is the one of bringing new thousands of Negroes into the imions, especiall.v
rNT-AMEUlCAN TKoPACANDA ACTIVITIES 8737
C I. O. uiiious. Ilowevor, we nmst imt lU'fil^'ft tor a siiijjlc iiKinu'iit those
Ne.sro workers, who, under the impetus of the C. I. O. drive joined the A. F.
of L. They nuis( be enlisted in the struggle for trade-union unity.
Our trade-union ('(unniissions must liave as one of its chief taslvS, the
winning over of tlie great mass of Xegro labor into the organized labor move-
ment— into the unions. This means among other things, the training of our
whole party membership to be conscious, elert, and vigilant in fighting for job
security, and ecjual opportunity in advancement for Negroes.
Systematic and planned enliglitment work must be carried on amongst the
white workers, winning them to struggle against all jim-crow barriers erected
against Xegro Labor.
It is only by rallying the white workers in defense of Negro labor, against
all forms of Negro discrimination, and for equal rights, will we be able to build
the powerful labor movement that will stop reaction in its tracks. It is thus
we will build the Democratic Front, the Peoples Front, and lay the base for
Socialism.
As the menace of fascist reaction threatens the Negro people with double
ferocity, there exists the greatest desire for unity among them, United action,
greater community cooperation is the foremost need that face the Negro people
today.
The struggle of the Negro people for their own freedom and the struggle of
the forces of progress and democracy meet on a common ground against their
common enemy, against fascist reaction.
The National Negro Congress has come forward as the Herculean helmsman
in building the unity of action among the Negro popidation, of welding unity
of all sections of the Negroes in the direction of improving their general lot
as well as towards a serious consideration of their problems in the international
arena.
The struggle around the antilynching bill which was sponsored by the N. A. A.
C. P. occupied a central place in the development of the whole progi-essive
movement in tb.e country. The National Negro Congress was a foremost sup-
porter of this struggle and helped to raised the struggle to new high levels. It
was the foremost Negro Peoples' united front organization which carried this
struggle into the deep South and strengthened the direct offensive against en-
trenched landlord and manufacturing class, who are afraid growing progressive
movement in the country, and particularly in the south, who are afraid of the
rising strength of labor and who are terrorized at the increasing unity of Negro
and v.hite in the trade-unions because they know that this is a prelude to unity
in poi:tical action.
The Second National Negro Congress which met in Philadelphia in October
1937 was attended by 1.200 delegates as compared with 912 delegates who at-
tended tlie First Congre.ss which met in Chicago in 1936. The Secc nd Congress
was a remarkalile .success over the first. However, the increase in the Con-
gress's numerical strength as indicated by the manner of delegates at the Second
Congre.ss does not at all fully indicate the actual strength and influence which
the Congres enjoys among the masses. Its prestige is more far-reaching than
is indicated by its numerical growth.
The f'acr that the second National Negi-o Congress was greeted by President
Roosevelt, Farmer-Lab^r Governor Elmer P)enson, of Miimesota, John L. Lewns,
and Mayor LaGuardia, of New York, is a striking manifestation of the growing
prestige which it has placed upon the recognition of outstanding progressive
leaders of the movement for progress and democracy in the country.
The program and aims of the National Negro Congress nuist be made known to
the greatest number of people. Our task is to solicit and secure the active
supjjort of every local and national oi'ganization of the Negro people in the
country and all mixed and white organizations that are willing to join in the
fight for econonuc and social justice for Negroes, sucli as trade-unions, civic,
fraternal, church, business, and professional organizations to heli) build the
Congress and nnd<e it a greater success.
As a result of the successful work done by the Congress and l)ccause of the
important place which it occupies in the American progressive movement, there
has ari'^en a greater desire among ndllions of Negro peo] le and many progressive
white people to establish closer relationship with the National Negro Congi'ess.
There are millions of individual inem')ers of organizations who are anxious to
support and cooperate with the Congress, but l)ecausp their re.'^pective oi'gan'za-
fion or trade-union may be unaffiliated with the Congress, a clo.sei" contact
through which they can fully participate has been insufficiently realized.
8738 UN-AMERTCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Existing in the midst of the rapid growth of the democratic and progressive
movement in the country, and the necessity of rallying the great masses of the
Negro people around and to this movement raises an important task for the
National Negro Congress. That is the task of providing for the greatest and
fullest participation of millions of individual progressives in the work of the
Congress.
The task then, therefore, is to bring the National Negro Congress more effec-
tively and more closer to the Negro population in the country and to provide
greater opportunities for the fullest cooperation and participation of all pro-
gressives in building the Congress.
The National Negro Congress has inaugurated a campaign to secure Sponsors
in the various progressive organizations, trade-unions, clubs, and in the
neighborhoods. Individual members of organizations can become official Spon-
sors of the Congress in their respective organizations or union and among
their friends in their communities by contributing a fee of fifty (50) centa
for which they will receive National Negro Congress Sponsors Buttons.
Thousands of individuals can be approached to become Sponsors of the
Congress. Every effort should be put forth to develop the campaign for
sponsors. Individual members of organizations, clubs, and trade unions who
are sponsors of the Congress can play a significant role in bringing the
Congress into their organization and help to draw the organization into the
work of the Congress and prepare the basis for their organization's affiliation
to the National Negro Congress.
In the negihborhoods where several Sponsors have been secured in an
assembly district or a ward, these people should be brought together to form
a Sponsors Club on the A. D. or ward basis. These sponsors Clubs will
function under the supervision of the central body of the Congress in a partic-
ular borough, county, town, or city.
The question of securing National Negro Congress Sponsors should be one of
the central points of preconvention discussion in every Party branch, vuiit, and
fraction. Party organizations and committees should develop discussions around
the Negro I'eoples' Front, building the National Negro Congress, the history
of the Negro people and building the Communist Party as the Party of the
Negroes. In addition to the material in the preconvention discussion bulletin,
every Party member should read : Earl Browder's Lincoln and the Connnunists,
The Peoples' Front, and James W. Ford's speeches at the First and Second
Congresses of the National Negro Congress.
Columnists in the trade unions should consult the educational committee
of their unions and arrange to include in their educational jjrogram discussions
on the National Negro Congress and the trade-unions, etc. Trade-union meet-
ings should be covered by people with folders, leaflets. Sponsor buttons, and
who should ask for the floor to give five-minute speeches on the Congress and
appeal for fifty cents Sponsors.
We Communists have always stood as the vanguard in the ranks of the
fighters for Progress and Democracy. The Communist Party strives to further
develop the National Negro Congress, the United Negro Peoples' Front as an
inseparable part of the People's Front for democracy, peace, and equal status
for the Negro people.
We must develop further the role of the Communist Party as the vanguard
in the struggle for Negro rights, in the liberation struggle of the Negro people,
and its role in continuing the revolutionary traditions of our country. Our
Party continues the role of Marx and Engels in the struggle for democracy in
the United States who rallied the British workers to the side of our democracy
in the United States against the British Tories and prevented their intervention
on the side of the slave owners of the South. Our Party personifies Lenin,
who aided the American working class in their struggle to unity and organ-
ization. His Letter to the American Working Class and his contribution toward
the solution of the Agricultural Question in the United States exemplifies
Lenin's role in America which must be brought home to the Negro people.
The role of Stalin can and must be brought to the Negroes in all our work.
On the basis of Stalin's contribution to the solution of the National Question,
our Party has been able to work out its correct analy.sis and approach to the
Negro people in the United States out of which the existence of the National
Negro Congress is an outstanding result.
In building the National Negro Congress, we must strive to advance the struggle
for Negro I'ights and the unity of Negro and white toilei-s. We must dramatize
all the democratic demands of the Negro people as inseparable from the struggle
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8739
of the progressive white people for deiiKx -nicy .iiul peace. The National Negro
Congress is a meeting ground of the Xi'gro peoph' in the United S'tates to join in
the biiikling of tlioir own united front against i-eacti(/n. for tlieir freedom, peace,
progress, and uhimate liberation. In the struggle for the democratic front of
which the National Negro Congress is an integral part, the Negro people will learn
still more the need for building the Peoples' Front in America, through which
struggle they will, together with the revolutionary Negro and white proletariat,
under the leadership of the Conumniist Party will advance to complete liberation,
to Socialism.
Green, Woll, and Hutchinson tried t(/ place the blame for lack of trade-union
organization amongst Negroes, not where it rightly belongs, upon their own
shoulders. They blamed the Negro workers. The whole world knows that
Negroes are hifyal fighters when given half a chance.
I'ntii the C. I. O. was born, what little trade-union organization there was
among Negroes, that is, the ones that joined the A. F. of L. joined in the face of
the greatest dilHculties. They joined in spite of the bari-iers erected by the
leadership of the American Federation of Labor.
We must state, however, that there were many white trade-unionists who car-
ried on a relentless struggle against the destructive policy of the top ofhcialdom
of the A. F. of L. Men who saw many years ago that only a policy of industrial
organization, a policy free of all forms of discrimination because of race, creed,
or color, w(^uld serve the best interest of the American wo'rking class. Outstand-
ing among these was Wm. Z. Foster.
Foster, and many tither real builders of the American Labor movement, were
expelled from the American Federation of Labor by the same reactionary elements
that are now in control of the Executive Council. The clique that is leading the
fight against the C. I. O. This clique must be halted in its attack on the labor
movement. The labor movement must be united. The American working class
must be miited into one ixnverful organization based upon the principle of indus-
trial unionism. The Committee for Industrial Organization has sho-wn the way.
Insofar as the Negro worker is concerned, the C. I. O. has proven, if proof is
needed, that Negroes are ready, and eager to join the ranks of organized labor.
Not only are the Negro workers eager to join unions, but they have demonstrated
their willingness to go the limit in defense of the cause of organized labor.
It is no accident that the C. I. O. has been able to organize over 2.")0,COO Negroes
in the short space of two years. While the A. F. of L. during 57 years of its
existence reluctantly enrolled 40-50,(X)0 and this under pressure.
The task confronting our entire party on the question of trade-iuiion unity, is
the one of bringing new thousands of Negroes into the unions, especially C. I. O.
unions. However, we must not neglect for a single moment those Negro workers,
who, under the imi>etus of the C. I. O. drive joined the A. F. of L. They must
be enlisted in the struggle for trade-union unity.
Our trade-iuiion Commissions must have as one of its chief tasks, the winning
over of the great mass of Negro labor into the organized labor movement — into
the unions. This means among other things, the training of our whole Party
membership to be conscious, alert, and vigilant in fighting for job security, and
equal opportunity in advancement for Negroes.
Systematic, and ])lanned enlightenment work must be carried on amongst the
white workers, winning them to struggle against all jim-crow barriers erected
against Negro labor.
MAY, 1938.
Report on Women's Work
M.^TERIAL for THE WOMEN'S COMMISSION. TENTH PARTY CONVENTION
Women passed through a harsh experience in 1029-34. They have seen the
rise of fascism in European countries which destroyed all the gains women made.
In our own country, women see reactionary monoijolies attempting to destroy
democratic rights of the people. By their increased activities in 193(3-38, women
in the United States have indicated that they are aware of the need to fight
for democracy, that they are organizing against the inequalities of women exist-
ing in nearly all phases of life; these inequalities which in themselves are a
violation of democracy; they are organizing against the callous indifference
to the iKisition of woman and her problems.
In 1936-38 large numbers of women took part in strikes for the recognition of
the industrial union; many joined the luiions ; there were outstanding women's
demonstrations for jobs on W. P. A. projects; Negro and white women united
8740 U?s-AMEKICA> PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
on picket lines, demanding jobs for Negro women ; in a number of cities, large
numbers of Negro women, through their organizations have become part of a
united movement for jobs for Negro young women ; housewives sent brigades
to Washington, demanding increased budgets for the unemployed ; the activities
of the wives of auto and steel workers in support of trade unions is known
nationally. The new trade-union auxiliaries are a result of this mass activity.
The demonstrations and the picketing of housewives against increased prices for
meat, milk, bread, rents, aijd increased gas rates is outstanding. The League
of Women Shoppers, a middle-class women's organization, has increased its
organization in 20 cities as a result of its active support of the labor movement,
and its monthly magazine.
These activities of the women are all part of the developing progressive move-
ment today.
Other manifestations of women's part in the developing progressive movement,
are the women's anti-silk peace parades ; their ever-widening activities in the
boycott of Japanese goods ; mother's peace-day parades and peace mass meetings,
which in 1938 have taken on a mass character, making the communities peace
conscious and arousing the community to the necessity for aid to mother and
child; the united people's conferences against the high cost of living, the united
movement taking in nearly the whole comnmnity (in Paterson, N. J.) around
issues of interest to working mothers ; the broad women's movements for women's
«ind children's all-day clinics; the women's activities in support of democratic
Spain — the mass women's delegation to Washington demanding the lifting of the
embargo and the many sided women's activity in support of the O'Connell peace
bill, the day of fasting in support of Loyalist Spain by the women delegates to
the Y. W. C. A. convention.
A series of national conventions of mass women's org'anizations held in 1938
made keynote speeches against fascism and for democracy. The Y. W. C. A.
convention stressed that Christians nmst block fascism in the U. S. A. ; that
Nazism in Germany cotild have been avoided by tinity of the people ; the League
of Women Voters Convention stressed the need to preserve democracy. Conven-
tion speeches were publicized attacking the reactionary Supreme Court and sup-
porting the Reorganization Bill. The convention of the General Federatiou of
Women's Clubs, representing nearly two million members, decided to conduct
community welware work around health and other such issues, as part of the
human democratic rights of the people. The Jewish women's organizations con-
vention stressed that not Communism, but fascism, is the danger today. Over
30 women's org'anizations in 13 southern states, some representing the entire
South, and entire States in the South, adopted resolutions against lynchings. An
antifascist note was heard even in the D. A. R. convention, when President Roose-
velt reminded the delegates that our forefathers threw off a fascist yoke. Even
here, there is a growing sentiment against fascism, so much so that the leaders
had to veil their reactionary proposals with antifascist phrases. The Cause
and Cure of War conference representing 11 women's mass organizations with a
membership of 14 million 'adopted a collective security policy for peace. They
are sending a large delegation of women to Europe this sunjmer on a peace mis-
sion. Millions of these women belong to many church organizations. The large
number of women delegates to the Congress of the American League for Peace
and Democracy and its enthusiastic women's session, indicates how active women
are in the peace movement. The composition of the ;mdiences with its many first-
comers at the Mother Bloor mass meetings in celebration of International Women's
Day is also an indication of the growing eagerness on the part of masses of women
to fight against war and against reaction and for democracy.
The basic organized masses of women in the U. S. A. have demonstrated in
1986-38 that they are on the side of progressive forces. The form in which this
progressive position presents itself is mo.'^tly arotmd f/cnrral isfniei^ involving
peace and democracy, in the general people's movements, and in the separate
women's organizations. Separate women's organizations here and there do carry
on some work for special legislation to improve economic conditions for women.
But a united women's movement for e(iual rights for women does not yet exist.
The Women's Charter movement aroused much discussion about the necessity for
such a movement. For the first time, a stir has been created in women's organiza-
tions on this subject. For the first time, some conventions; of women's organi-
zations are discussing this subject. However, organizationally only the first steps
have been taken to build the united women's movement for women's equal rights.
However, we can say that whereas inaor to l!)3(i there dir^ not exist even talk
about a united women's movement, today there is beginning to be signs of an
UX-AMEKK'AN rilOPAGANDA ACTIVITIKS 8741
orit'iitat inn in thai dii'iH-t ion. The nnited activities of a number of organizations
(It'niandini;- jobs for wonion, the loniiiorary c•onferen^v^s to limit hours of work
for (loniosiic workers, tlie beji'innin.ns of united front conferences to ai<l mother
and child. Hie small ,i;roui>s tliat are beinji developed around the Women's Charter,
the Mother's Day united peace i;ommittees, tlie attempt to unite the opposition
to the "Equal Rights" amendment — all is an indication in this direction.
The Women's Charter Group which came out of Wa.<liington has now been
reorganized into the Joint Connnilti'e for Women'.s Work, with the resolution
adopted at the International Labor Conference in Geneva as the basis for its
work. This resolution was presented in Geneva by the United States Govern-
ment delegation. This resohition is a good guiding document for the building of
the imited women's movement for e(puil rights. It contains the principle that
should be embodied into an act to be presented to Congress by the progressive
moment, to abolish the legal discrimination that exists against women and to
safeguard the principle of special legislation that fits the special needs of
women. Such congressional action would substitute the Utopian •'Equal Rights"
amendment sponsored by the Women's I'ai'ty.
Organizationally, the united women's movement is not a finished movement.
Organizationally, it is less advanced than other progressive united movements.
Nevertheless, it is a decisive section of the democratic front. We must under-
stand its form of development to help it mature and strengthen itself. That is
of especial importance to the progressive movement as a whole. Its main weak-
ness comes from the fact that women in trade-unions are active only to a limited
degree in the women's equal rights movement. The main task in the building
of the united women's equal rights movement is for the trade-unions to hold
special meetings of its women members to work out legislative programs for women
of their particular industry. Of the 22 States having miniminn-wage laws for
women, which employ two-thirds of all working women and 7( K v of all women
in manufacturing, very few have the necessary government machinery to apply
that law. The cotton industry, which employs the largest number of women,
is concentrated in States still without any minimum wage provisions. Increased
activities of women in the trade-unions around a legislative program for women
will bring into the trade-unions many unorganized women.
The fulfillment of this main task will strengthen the work of the women's mass
organizations to improve woman's social position. It will help convince many
leaders of mass women's organizations aboiit the need for a united women's
movement around equal rights for women. Certain of the women's organizations
have bad experience in united women's activities around the peace issue as the
Cause and Cure of War Committee, representing 11 mass women's organizations;
also the Women's Joint Congressional Committee which is made up of 22 of the
most repre-sentative national women's organizations (it does legislative work).
As part of this main ta.sk, it is necessary to hel]) activize the rank and file mem-
bers in the mass women's organizations around the progressive policies adopted
in their national conventions, to help them l)ecome active in support of democratic
Spain, to aid the babies of Spain, to support the O'Connell Peace Bill, to lift
the embargo against Spain, and to exterid the boycott of Jaijanese goods move-
ment ; to make Mother's Day a mass day for peace and aid to mother and child;
to work for women's conference against lynching and in support of the anti-
lynch bill. This work should inclnde the building up of the membership in the
American League for Peace and Democracy.
Women are nearly half the voting population. In some States, as Illinois,
women are 51 9r of the voters. The reactionaries have already opened their
election campaign to win the votes of the women in the 198S elections. Hoover
already made his appeal to the women of the nation against Roosevelt's budget
for .jobs and relief under the slogan of fisjht the "Moral Recession" in govern-
ment. This sjieech was immediately followed up by the call of the Women's
National Republican Club calling upon women to unite to defeat the New Deal
with its "spending" budget. It blames the Roosevelt administration for the
wor.«ened condition of th(> family, and openly asks the women to vote for tlie
candidates of r(>action in the lll^S elections: because, it says that success in 10,38
(for reaction) will point toward a Reimblican President in 1040. In the speech
of H >over in the call of the Women's National Republican Cbib, in the statements
of the Women's Rebellion committee organized by the fascist elemp>nts in N'^w
York who are cann\Ticning against all nrogressive measures — tlipre is a common
plank — defeat the Roosevelt plan for iobs and relief, cut the federal bud.cet for
relief and nublic works, and save the billions of the monopolies: shift the burden
for the relief of the unemployed to the comnuuiities — meaning to the people.
3742 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Tlie reactionaries are already trying to exploit the sentiments against
fascism as expressed in the women's conventions. They are operating under
the deraogogic slogan of no dictatorship in government.
Much support is extended to the reactionaries by the isolationist polices
of the Women's Internatonal League for Peace and Freedom. Ths organiza-
tion until recently was considered a progressive one. Not knowing alxjut its
present reactionary policies, women can be misled. It blames the Roosevelt
administration for continuing the depi'essiou as a way to war. This detracts
from the guilt of the real culprits who are responsible for the miseries of the
people — the reactionary monopolies.
The women isolationists are finding themselves in the same camp with the
renegade Lovestonites. They, together with the would-be women liberals
in the United States who attack the Soviet Union, who side with the Trotskyite
agents of fascism, do not represent the masses of women in the United States.
Blinded by their isolationist polices, and the fascist propaganda of the Trot-
skyites, they do not see the great and active support that the millions of
women in the Soviet Union are giving to the leaders of their government, to
Stalin, for the elimination of the traitors who plotted to open the Soviet
frontiers for faslism to come in. The masses of women fighting war and
fascism in the United States will pass such would-be leaders by.
But with such great effort on the part of reactionaries of all shades to win
the women, it is not so certain that many women's votes will not be given
to reactionary candidates, that women may be temporarily swayed away from
their progressive position if the progressive political organizations do not speed
up their efforts to win the women.
In preparation for the 1938 elections, progressive political organizations
should request their Congressmen and Senators to :
1. Include a clause in the Hours-and-Wages Bill providing equal applica-
tion of the benefits in that Bill to women.
2. To amend the National Security Act, title V, Section 502, authorizing an
adequate sum to be appropriated annually to the States for maternal and
child health services.
3. Support the Child Labor Amendment.
Progressive political state conferences and progressive election campaign
committees should include the following in their platform:
1. Full opportunity for women to work.
2. Safeguarding of women's health in employment.
3. Full opportunity for education for women.
4. State and W. P. A. aid to mother and child.
5. Dowry subsidy for women on W. P. A. and relief.
6. All-day women's and children's clinics in hospitals or medical centers.
7. Equal rights for Negro women.
Progressive political State conferences and organizations should initiate and
support state measures to abolish legal discriminations against women that
exist in their States. A model state law for this is the Wisconsin State Law,
guaranteeing civil and political rights to women and at the same time recog-
nizing the need for special laws to improve the iwsition of women.
The women in the trade-unions, together with women's organizations in the
city and state, with the support of the progressive political organizations, in-
cluding the progressive women's clubs of the Democratic and Republican parties,
should initiate city and state women's conferences, for the realization of this
program.
Such conferences will promote the welding together of women in the trade-
unions with various women's organizations for the building of a broad national
united women's movement as part of the democratic front movement to block
the road to fascism and war.
WOMEN IN TRADE-UNIONS
Each local trade-union, separately or jointly with unions in other industries,
should create a women's joint committee to work on a project as to what
should constitute a living wage for women in the state for various industries,
the findings of this project committee to be proposed to the State Minimum Wage
Board. Similar project committees can work for improvement of women's
health in employment. The project committee, through trade-unions and women's
organizations, nia.v rally to get their proposal adopted. A state bill limiting the
hours of work for domestic workers should be initiated through the trade-unions
UN-AMERICAN PROl^AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8743
or the y. W. C. A. whose reciMit conventiou decided to work for the organ-
ization of tlio domestic worl<ors. Tlirouuli the W. P. A. Women's Division and
the Workers Alliance, the women slionld he organized to work for maintenance
and extension of W. P. A. projects for women.
COMMUNITY ACTIVITY
Women's trade-union auxiliaries, Parents and Teachers Associations, Women's
political chihs, women's committees of progressive political organizations, may
hand together in the comnumity to set up a Women's Community Welfare
Committee. This to include : W. P. A. and Municipal Aid to mother and child,
particularly maternal assistance, with special attention to the need of Negro
mothers : the improvement and extension of health centers with women's and
children's clinics, including hirth control information service; day nurseries for
working mothers; better .schools; recreational centers for the children and the
youth. These community committees may he joined together on a city-wide
basis and trade unions and city women's organizations support .sought to work
for state maternity insurance and amendment of the National Social Security
Act f<»r adequate funds to states for mother and child health services.
WORK AGAINST THE H. O. L.
Efforts to get affiliations of Consumers organizations and luiited front con-
ferences against high prices to the National Consumers Federation should be
stressed. This organization is a clearing for experiences in consumers work and
helps to unite the City Consumers with the .small farmers.
Support for the investigation of the food monopolies by the Federal Government
should be connected with the 1938 election campaign. Neighborhood women's
organizations, trade-union auxiliaries, are very effective in bringing the work
against the H. C. L. into the neighborhoods.
The Party has more than doubled its women membership since the 9th Party
convention, aiul has tripled the number of working women in the Party. We
set as our task that by International Women's Day, March r.)39, we shall
improve more considerably, the number of working women in our Party — by
then, to build permanent state, district Party commissions for women's work.
To improve the composition of these commissions by the inclusion of a larger
number of working women. The commissions to set up the necessary com-
mittees for work among women in the 193.S Congressional campaign. That
larger numbers of women students be included in the general Party Training
Schools. That special Party women's study circles be organizfd. The Party
shall improve its work among the masses of women of the nationalities, espe-
cially Italian and Jewish, and among the Catholic women. To get support for
the antifascist Italian women's paper. Our Party press shall carry more mate-
rial on the life conditions, the problems and the activities of women. To make
'•Women on the March" a iiermanent publication. Systematic publication of
literature on the Party's position on the family, or religion in relation to women,
on the life and work of the women in the Soviet Union and on activities of
women against war and fascism in other countries, shall be published. More
literature on the Comnuuiist position on the woman question shall be published.
Women's Work of the Nation .\t. Bure.\us
Compiled by Cl.\r.\ Bodian
May 1938
Women's Commission C. C.
In interviewing the various leaders of the Leaguage organizations I was
much impressed with their interest and enthusiasm at our effort to gather this
information. They were very cooi)erative and indicated that the I. W. O. has
organized a women's section in their national organization. As a residt of
this, they have high exijectations of the attention to be paid on women's
problems.
Onlv three of the women's language bureaus, namely, the Flimish, Hungarian,
and Italian have their own periodicals. The others get special columns in the
regular press. None have a planned educational program. All expressed the
need for such a program to raise the political level of their membership. All
3744 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
carry on united-front activity in one way or another, fitted in tlie general work
of tfie national bureau.
Some are doing splendid work around Spain and China by raising funds and
developing campaigns for lifting of the embargo on Spain. All are making
strenuous efforts to work with other language groups. Very few however, have
developed campaigns on day-to-day issues concerning their innuediate pioblems.
The Jewish bureau which undoubtedly influences thousands of women in
various organizations, was able to give me the least information, because of
their lack of coordination among Jewish organizations. The Bureau head made
the point that a tremendous campaign can be developed around Anti-Semitism
among the conservative organizations, such as the Women's division of the
American Jewish Congress, etc.
Because of the International situation as a whole, the field is fertile for co-
ordhiated woi'k for Peace and against Fascism.
Every language group has a certain percentage of women in various indus-
tries. Finnish women in the East are primarily in the textile industry, also
in the needle trades. In the Midwest they are engaged on the farms and in
auto and on the West Coast are in canning and agricultural industries. Many
of them are mariied women, who are housewives as well as industrial women.
The national work includes tlie teaching of language to children in special
organized schools to reach larger numbers of the parents in this way.
The National mass organizations have comparatively small women mem-
bership, but they wield tremendous influence among thousands of women, both
organized and unorganized. Then can play a definite role in the coming 1938
elections, since the program of the Democratic Front effects every one of those
language women. The La Follette group has great influence over the progres-
sive language groups, especially in the farm regions and in civil-rights issues.
The major task for the language department and the national women's com-
mission is the formation of phins of work and simple methods of approach.
It is important that women in the language mass organizations be recruited
into the party. Many of them are ready and ripe for the Party.
It is of utmost importance that we work out a plan to correctly approach
the religious groups and how best to raise the religious question as a whole.
We should concentrate particularly among Italian, German, Spanish, and
Jewish women's organizations, also to urge groups to link up their work with
issues in the United States, support of Spain and China, also support of politi-
cal prisoners in the countries they come from, particularly in the reactionary
and fascist countries.
Women's Commission, C. C,
Maij 1938.
The following is a partial list of women's organizations which adopted reso-
lutions condemning lynching.
It is suggested that immediate attention be given to the organization of
wumen's conferences against hjnchbHj, to push the anti-Lynch Bill, especially
in those states as listed here, where women's organizations have already de-
clared themselves against lynchings.
1. Women's Auxiliary to the National Council of the General Convention of
the Protestant Episcopal Chnrcli in the diocese of: Alabama, Georgia,
Florida, Kentucky, and Mississippi.
2. Women's Missionary Society of: Kentucky, Florida, Georgia.
3. The Women's Advisory Committee of the Pre.sbyterian Church, U. S., of
Georgia and Virginia.
■:!. The Women's Missionary Council of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South,
embracing Alabama, Central and West Texas, Florida, Kentucky, Ar-
kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, North and South Georgia, N. Carolina,
North Mississippi, Oklahoma, S. Carolina, Tennessee, Upper S. Carolina,
Virginia.
5. The Women's Missionary Union of the Southern Baptist Convention.
6. The Southwestern Regional Conference rep. the National Federation of
Business and Professional Women's Clul)S, tlie Arkansas Democratic
Women's Club, the Georgia Council of Federated Church Women, the
Georgia Woman's Christian Temperance Union, the Louisiana Assn. of
Peace Officers, the Mississippi Women's Christian Temperance Union.
7. The Association of Southern Women for the Prevention of Lynching has
been active against lynching for many years.
rX-A.MEKICAN I'K()1'A( J AM )A ACTIVITIES 8745
MASS WOMI'N'S OUCAMZATIONS
Women's Trade Union League. Women's Tr:ule Union Anxiliarios.
Parents and Tcac-hers Ass'us. Progressive Women's Councils.
Young Women's Christian Ass'us. Cause and Cure of War Committee.
Language Women's organizations. Federation of Negro Women's Clubs.
National Colored Women's Council. Catliolie Women's Cour.cil.
Jewish Women's Council. League of Women Shoppers.
Federation of Women's Clubs. Farm women's organizations.
F. L. P. Women's clubs. Progressive political women's clubs.
League of Women "Voters. Auxiliaries American Legion.
Connnunity organizations. Auxiliaries Vets, of Foreign Wars.
GENERAL ORGANIZATIONS
International Workers Order. American League for Peace and De-
National Negro Congress. mocracy.
Workers Alliance.
Report of National Training School, 1936-1937, 1937-1938
A decision to establish a six-month full-time National Training School,
accommodating about 60 students per term, was made toward the end of 1935.
This decision was prompted by the following considerations:
(1) The resurgence of the labor movement, and the awakening of broad
masses to a conscious political life;
(2) The growth of the influence of the Party and its rapid maturity to
the position of a potent factor in the political life of the country,
and as a driving force and integral part of every progressive move-
ment directed against reaction and for the defense of democracy;
(3) The growing complexity of the problems of the Democratic and People's
Front, of trade union unity, and consequently the need everywhere
of trained forces intimately connected with every movement, with
every development, providing direction, giving answers to the po-
litically awakening masses and showing the way at each turn :
(4) The decisiveness of the task for understanding how to independently
bring forward the vanguard role of the Party in each situation, in
each crystallization of the movement of the people against reaction,
and on this basis of building the Party and the Party press ;
(5) The relatively low theoretical level of the membership and the still
existing gulf between the brilliant line and directives of the Party
leadership and their application by the lower organs down below
among the masses ; and
(6) The political task in this situation of undertaking along broad lines
the systematic internationalist Socialist education of the masses on
the basis of their fundamental experiences and growing political
consciousness.
All of these made it necessary to place the question of I'arty education, of
Marxist-Leninist training of Party personnel, as a decisive question of the hour.
The establishment of the new six-month National Training School was an
important step in meeting this need.
Since the decision, two such National Training Schools have been held.
Let us briefly examine the work of these tw^o schools in an attempt to deter-
mine to what extent they have answered the main need of the Party, to what
extent they have fulfilled their main tasks.
CUKRICULUM
The experiences of the two 6-nionlli schools already concluded establish the
fact that, in the main, the curriculum was adapted to the jiolitical requirements
of training personnel. The main courses consisted of the History of the United
States (history of the people, of the labor and revolutionary movements),
Political Economy (the main laws of capitalist development, the development
of classes and class relations). History of the Communist Party, of the Soviet
L'nion, Leninism, and Organization. Besides these central courses, the subjects
History of the First International, Struggle against Trotskyism and Lovestone-
ism. Public Speaking, Shop I'aper and Leaflet Technique, as well as a series of
lectures on special organizational problems and lectures on most important
current developments constituted an integral part of the curriculum.
8746
UX-AMEIUCAX PUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
In the second school (1937-1938), an additional course deveh)ped for the first
time — the course on the History of our Party — whicli was an important political
addition to the curriculum, and a significant element in Party training.
In general, the results of the two schools established the correctness of the
general line of the curriculum which succeeded in providing a rounded training
in the fundamentals of Marxist-Leninist theory and its application to the current
political and organization tasks of the Party.
It can also be registered that the methods of administration, of instruction
and organization, were in the main proven successful by the intensity and quality
of work of the students and the high poUtical morale that marked both schools.
However, there is need for a still greater degree of coordination of the various
courses, for a more marked and clearer correlation of theory and practice in
every subject, and still greater attention to the development of technical courses.
An important factor in making the two schools generally successful, was the
participation of leading members of the Polburo and Central Committee on the
teaching staff. This brought to the school comrades in the leadership of definite
phases of the work of the Party with first-hand knowledge, and equipped to
provide the comrades with a sound basis for the solution of the main problems
of the day.
The physical accommodations ])iovided by the Central Connnittee had a very
important bearing on the fulfillment of the political tasks of the school, by
providing excellent material conditions which freed the comrades of all obliga-
tions except concentration on their studies.
COMPOSITION
Even a cursory examination of the composition of a Party school will establish
beyond doubt that the selection of students determines to a great degree the
results and effectiveness of the school. The Central Committee has carried on
a consistent struggle ovei- a period, to politically convince the leading comrades
in the districts of the need for a serious political attitude toward the selection
of students for Party training schools. This struggle has not been without suc-
cess, especially the very clear reference of Comrade Browder at the June (1937)
Plenum of the Central Committee to the need for selecting "comrades who can-
not be spared," as students to Party schools. That this emphasis brought
results, is evident from the improved composition of the I'arty schools held
since. If we compare the two National Training Schools, 1936-1937 and 1937-
1938, we see a definite improvement in composition.
General Analysis:
Sent by Districts
Polburo Quota
Y. C. L. Quota
Total Number in School. _-_
Party Functions:
National functionaries (Party, Y. C. L. and mass organizations)
District functionaries
State Comm ittee Members
County and Section Organizers
Trade-Union Organizers.. _
Trade-Union Afflliation percent
Industrial Composition:
% of industrial workers do..
Number from basic industries .-
Women percent
Negroes do..
Negro Women _ _ -
Nationality: Native born percent
Average Age. years
Length of time in the Party:
5 years and over - -
1 year to 5 years...
Under 1 year -
Previous Party schooling:
Reffional and District Schools percent
Section Schools -do..
Y. C. L. Schools... - do..
Workers' Schools - do..
1936-1937
1937-1938
(out of 59)
(out of 65)
39
43
13
13
/
9
59
65
0
6
8
6
11
13
10
14
0
10
27
55H
60
e^A
7
12
mi
2VA
12
14
1
2
83
87
28.2
*28.6
12
23
41
37
6
5
15
19
5
15
8
15}^
8
]5H
•4 students over 40 years of age brought up the average age.
UN-AMEHICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8747
While rliis f;(MU'r:il iinpi'ovomont in composition reflects a better political orienta-
tion in the districis toward tlie (piestion of I'arty education, still it must be regis-
tered that till" improved composition in the last year did not result sufticiently
from the initiative of the districts. It still required several months of pressure
on the part of the School Commission, and in some cases even the direct inter-
vention of Comrade Browder to secure comrades for the School.
We call attention especially to the following districts for selecting leading
comrades for the school : The Chicago district, which selected a Sub-District
organizer, the organizer of the most important County organization, as well as a
leading Negro comrade; the Pittsburgh district, which sent to the school three
members of the District Buro. as well as three C. I. O. organizers; the New York
district, which selected a district functionary, a city-wide leader of the Workers'
Alliance, as well as some of the most important section organizers; New Jersey,
whicii selected two members of the District Buro, the organizers of the most im-
portant counties. The Florida and Oklahoma districts both sent their District
Organization Secretaries as students, etc.
The Y. C. L. should be highly commended for its choice of a group of eleven able,
promising, and leading Y. C. L. functionaries, three of whom are members of the
National Conunittee of the Y. C. L. We wish to stress particularly the splendid
comix)sition of the Negro comrades, all capable, developed, and promising leaders
of the Negro people, and of the large number of able and effective women comrades,
showing an improved orientation in the Party generally to the question of the
training of women cadres.
Weaknesses in composition, however, that apply to both National Training
Schools, which we must call sharply to the attention of the districts, are the
following :
1. We still find too many cases of comrades sent to the highest Party educational
institution without any previous training or experience. This situation neces-
sarily tends to lower the political quality of the entire school, tends to discourage
the comrades wlio are in no position to keep average pace in their studies, and
places special burdens upon the Administration and teachers, which necessarily
hinders the fullest development of the entire school. In the future, candidates
for the National Training School should be systematically prepared for the school
by the districts in advance. The selection should not be more or le.ss haphazard,
but purposeful. Comrades should be chosen with definite functions in mind,
should be selected for specific training to fi!! definite needs for personnel. These
comrades should go thi'ough previous training and receive consistent attention
from the districts with a view of preparing them for the highest Party school.
2. The lack of attention in the districts to the physical condition of the com-
rades sent to school has been a serious problem, especially in the last National
Training School, when 5 students were sent home, too ill to study. The National
Training School does not exactly offer a vacation to sick comrades. We urge the
most serious attention on the part of the districts to physical examinations of
candidates, and to preparing the comrades in advance to make themselves phys-
ically fit.
A political problem of great importance, particularly in the National Training
School, due to its duration, is the problem of overcoming to the fullest extent
po.ssible the isolation of the students from the mass struggles and their Party
organizations. Even the few simple steps we urged upon the districts were insuffi-
ciently carried out by most of the districts. We urged, for instance, that the
districts pi-ovide their students with their local papers, at least their trade-union
organ, and (»ne bourgeois pajier. We appealed time and again for the districts to
maintain regular correspondence with their students, sending them periodically
material, reports on local developments, on Party campaigns, etc. But this appeal
did not meet with the response that should have been expected. We urge again
tliat the districts in the future carry out these simple obligations as their respon-
sibility to th(nr students.
For any real evaluation of the extent to which Party training schools fulfill
their main tasks, it is essential that records be kept on the work of the graduates
for some period after their training. From the general information available to
us, the biggest ma.iority of the graduates of the 1936-1037 school are active, lead-
ing Party workers, in different fields of activity. We have asked for reports from
the district organizations on the utilization of the students from the 1937-1938
National Training School. We wish to stress the importance of receiving such
reports, let us say. two or three times a year.
In our opinion, the general method of selecting students more or less in a
hurry by the District Organizations, as a result of all kinds of communications
8748 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
and pressure from the Center, must l)e entirely ehanged. A real Party personnel
policy requires that selections for I'arty schools be carried out as a system, all
year around, in the day to day mass work of the Party. The District leadership
should at all times keep a careful, political personal watch over the Ite^^t capital
the Party possesses, our human material. Comrades active in mass work, who
prove thf^mselves in the trade-union movement, in the struggles of the luiemployed,
in the United Front and political progressive movements, comrades who show
ability, who are stable, who build the Party in the course of the struggle, espe-
cially comrades from the basic industries and important plants, should be sys-
tematically watched for training. The districts should prepare their list of can-
didates for students on the liasis of their daily contact with the above types of
comrades, insicad of waiting for the tinal telegram from the School Commission
at the last minute to begin to worry about students for the scliool.
With the serious attention the School Commission of tlie Central Committee is
devoting to the central political problems, of the ciuTiculum and teaching staff,
and with a more serious political approach to the problem of selection of students,
there is no doubt that our schools in the future will have even greater achieve-
ments to record.
Fraternally submitted.
National Training School,
Geokgb Siskind, Director.
UOPWA
cio— 16
MKMOr.ANDUi[ ON THE WORKERs' ScHOOLS FOR THB ICKTH CONVENTION OF THE
C. p. U. S. A.
At the 9th National Convention of the Party, the need for building Workers'
Sc-hools and strengthening those which already existed had been strongly empha-
sized in the report of the Commission and in the general resolution. We regret
to state that very little progress can be recorded in that field since the 9th
Convention.
Definite progress can be recorded by the schools in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.
In Philadelphia the school has increased the number of students, reporting a
total registration of 1,200 for the year 1936-1937. The task in connection with
the school is to establish a firmer base ond concentrate on the improvement of
the quality of the work. In Pittsburgh the school ceased to function in 1935.
It was reestablished in the winter of 1938 and is functioning well. The school
repoi'ts a registration for the first term of 235, and for the second. Spring term,
of 120 .students. These schools are now functioning to a great extent because of
the cooperation of the District leadership.
CHICAGO
The Workers' School shows sustained activity. In addition to the work in the
central school, extension courses have been successfully conducted in various
parts of the city.
BOSTON
Since the 9th Convention, the old Workers' School of P>oston has been function-
ing as the PROGRESSIVE LABOR SCHOOL OF BOSTON. The registration of
the school is very small and does not show any growth ; on the contrary, it shows
a decrease as compared with former years, despite the expectation of the com-
rades that the change of name would expand tlie scliool.
BALTIMORE
The report for 1937 shows a registration of 248 for the three terms of 1937.
SAN FRANCISCO
Since the General Strike when the Workers' School was smashed by the vigi-
lantes, the Party was unable to reestablish the institution on a working basis.
The CHimrades there are of the opinion that they should concentrate on inner-Party
education.
rX-A.MEUICAN ruol'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8749
LOS ANGEI.ES
The sohoul in Tais Angoles is not fvinclionins at present as a centrally located
school, but the work is concentrated on neijihhorhood classes. The plan is to
reestablish the school as soon as new and suitable quarters are obtained.
CLEVELAND
Cleveland reports a .sharp decline in the work of the Work«>rs' School during
the first term of 1937-19:^8. After a serious discussion on the question was held
by the comrades of the school with the Party committee, the decline was checked
and the Spring- term shows a registration of '2^A) with a fairly large proportion of
industrial workers.
DETROIT
An incomplete report from Detroit shows that educational work has been con-
ducted in the form of various classes during the Fall and Winter of this year.
No reports were received from Denver, Minneapolis, and a number of other
places where schools formerly functioned.
NEW YORK
Tlie Workers" School in New York has maintained its scope of activity and
has m: de substantial progress in several phases of the work. IMost important
achievements have been in the improvement of the quality of the work. This
expressed itself in the higher theoretical and political level of the teaching per-
sonnel. The School Bt>ard and the Administration, through a systematic cheek-up
of the work of the teachers, have been able to correct a number of weak points
and replace several of the instructors who failed to satisfy the necessary recpiire-
ments. Systematic discussions with the instructors through conferences and indi-
vidual consultation helped to rai.se their theoretical level.
Improved quality can also be observed in the material xised and in the teaching
methods. Outlines for the various courses are often revised with a view to
further improvements and bringing them up to date. The aim is to attune the
outlines and other material to the political problems of the specific period.
The steps t;iken can be considered only as a partial improvement; more
will have to be done.
Successful steps have been taken in the direction of broadening the school
by the introduction of cultural subjec's and suttjects dealing with problems
of interest to the labor movement generally, especially the trade unions.
Such courses as labor law and industrial relations attracted more than 200
in three classes. A substantial ntnnlier of active trade miionists took the
course. Also a large number of the memlters of the legal profession regis-
tered for the course. In line with the whole jjolitical situation and tasks of
the Party, the Workers' School has paid special attention to the courses in
American History.
growth of the wokki:rs' school in new york
The peak of the growth of the scliool was reached in 1935-36 when the
total registra:ion amounted to 9,707 students. The following year the regis-
tration driipi)cd to 8,3t)4, and this yc^ir, 1937-3S, shows a registration of 7,136,
not including the summer term. Taking an average summer registration of
about 5(0. we will get !d)out 7,600 students this year. This downward trend
is due to a number of factors :
(1) The large educational program introduced by the W. P. A., which caused
a considei";iI)le reduction in the Lang\iage Department of our School;
(2) The extensive inner-Party education program organized in the New
York sections and counties of the Party. This tended to take away a num-
ber of members who formerly came to the Workers' School ;
(3) The introduction of educational work in a nund)er of trade unions
which also affected the registi-at ion.
During the period of the dro]) in registration, the number of Party mem-
bers increased as compared with iion-I'arty students. While the registration
of a large number of I'arty members is surely a positive feature, still it is
necessary at the same time to carry on a broad campaign to increase the
ninnber of non-Partv members.
3750 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The School has now a very important task : to increase the registration
and continue further in the imiirovement of the quality of the worli. At all
times, the School maintained its Marxist-Leninist character and is today, as
it has been during the last ten years, tlie largest Marxist-Leninist educational
institution in the country.
SUMMER DAY SCHOOL
The Workers' School in New York is offering for the coming Sunmier a
full-time six-week day school. The curriculum consists of Political Economy
I and II, Marxism-Leninism I and II, and a survey of American History
from colonial times to the present. Sessions will be held daily from 9 A. M.
to 1 P. M., with special discussions on political problems on Friday morning.
The term for the Summer Day School is from July 5th to August 12th. Tlie
active, early, response from many cities to this type of school, already in-
dicates that it will be successful. The school is open to Party and non-
party people and offers an opportunity for comrades to receive an intensive,
systematic, theoretical training.
TASKS
The main task emphasized at the 9tli Convention still remains to l)e ful-
filled. Workers' Schools for tlie teaching of Marxism-Leninism must be built
and the existing ones strengthened. The State and local leadership must
pay special attention to this phase of the work. A well-functioning Workers'^
School will aid in the development of Party education generally and will
also stimulate education within trade unions and other mass organizations.
A tendency to replace our Workers' Schools with so-called non-partisan labor
colleges must be combatted. Labor colleges organized by trade unions, the
C. I. O. and others, have an important role to play, but we as a Connnunist Party
must have an instrument for the dissemination of the teachings of Marx, Engels,
Lenin and Stalin, precisely at this time when our Party is becoming more and
more a decisive factor in the progressive movement.
Another task which is particularly important to the New York school is the
Integration of the school with the State organization of the Party. The school
functions in New York and must become a part of the organization of the Party.
It must be integrated with the school work and general educational work of the
sections, counties, etc. The plan of work must include the utilization of the
Workers' School as one of the most important instruments for the education of
the broad Party membership, and the dissemination of Marxism-Leninism among
the masses.
TRAINING OF INSTRUCTORS
Initial steps have been taken to train qualified instructors for the Party and
mass education. Two courses for training teachers were carried through. The
experiences of these two schools have proven that the Workers' School is equipped
for this task, which now should be established as a definite phase of the worlTof
the school. The task must be to train teaching personnel not only for New York,
but for places outside of New York.
Comradely submitted.
A. Markoff.
UOPWA
cio-lG
Report on the Midwestern Schools, 10th Convention, C. P. U. S. A.
An important extension of work of the School Commission of the Central
Committee was the organization of the Midwestern Regional School (Minnesota)
and the District Schools in Missouri and Indiana. In the case of Missouri and
Indiana, this was the first time that any Party training schools were conducted.
The schools in the main were highly successful, and provided 85 people with a
training in the fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism. The schools provided forces
for the mass work of the Party in those territories where the problem of forces
is particularly acute. Especially with regard to the Missouri School, It can be
said that the people trained provide the basis for the District leadership.
The Minnei^nfa Rcf/innnl School consisted of 19 students from 7 states (Minne-
sota, Wi.sconsin, North Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Utah, and New Mexico).
The composition in general was good. Although 6 of the students were farmers.
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
8751
still, coii.><idoring that tho obloct of the Central Committee was to make this
school a special ctniceiitratioii for the training of forces for the conntryside. we
must say (hat tlie school did not entirely jicconiplish this i)nrpos(>. This was due
mainly to the fact (hat the distriets did not take advantage of this special school
(SH)uth Dakota. Iowa. Northern Michigan, etc.).
The Missouri School was conduct(Ml on a part-time basis for a period of four
weeks for three different groups. One school was organized for steel workers
which consisted of IS students: ant)ther for electrical workers and miscellaneous
trade unionist, consisting of 20 students, and a speeial class for wt)men consisting
of 12 students, making a total of fiO students for all three groups. Upon the
conclusion of these three schools — 12 students were chosen from the various
classes for a one-week full time school.
The T)i(1i(iii<i School was for a period of ten days, full time, and consisted of
12 students. The Indiana school supplied a number of forces for the counties
and branches. However, the outstanding weakness was that the concentration
industry, auto, was very poorly represented (1 student) — not a single student
from South Bend, the main auto center of the state. Preparations are being
made for another school this summer which will consist mainly of the workers
from the basic industries of the state.
One thing very positive must be recorded in regard to all these schools, and
that is. that they served to stimulate a great deal of interest in Marxist-Leninist
training. This must be utilized by the districts to continue and expand this
phase of Party training.
Comradely submitted.
Jack Perixla.
USE THESE FACTS
tRcsearch Bulletin of the CoramuniFt Party, 12th A. D., 141 E. 29th Street, New York City, Vol. 2, #3,
Feb. 8, 19371
FIN.\L RESULTS OF THE ELKCTION CAMPAIGN
IFrom the annual report of the Board of Elections, 1936]
Begistrafion of voters in the 12 A. D.
Democratic - -
Republican
Socialist
Communist
Blank, defect., and missing.
Total
Males
1.5,664
2, 994
109
120
20,155
Females
11,014
3,721
111
64
16,036
Total
26. 678
6. 715
223
184
2,391
36, 191
VOTE FOR PRESIDENT AND
VICE PRESIDENT
N. y. C.
12th A. D.
Total Vote
2, 823, 191
34, 740
Roosevelt & O -.
Landon & Knox
1,802,502
665.951
38. 520
31,952
238,845
22, 261
9,559
Thomas & Nelson
Browder & Ford
563
594
Amer. L. P _-.
1,287
VOTE FOR GOVERNOR
Lehman
Bleakley...
Laidler
1,572.315
874. 087
47. 051
36, 264
231,114
19.3.53
12.0.52
728
Minor
6,80
A.L.P
1.174
62626 — 41— vol. 14-
-38
VOTE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR
Bray, Demo
RobertPon, Rep.
Hahn, Soc
Sawyer, Com...
1, 866, 774
634, 642
52. 654
61. 094
22, 169
9,044
610
884
VOTE FOR STATE COMPTROLLER
Tremaine, Demo.
May, Rep
Cheney, Soc
Hutchins, Com..
, S8S,
276
599,
266
53,088 1
62
555
22, 320
8,601
696
905
VOTE FOR ATTORNEY-GENERAL
Bennett, Dem.
Perlman, Rep..
Marks, Soc...
Briehl, Com...
1,869,108
644, 363
53,117
62,160
22, 525
8,601
589
901
8752
U X- A .ME H I ( ; AX PR ( ) PA (J A X DA A<.'T I ^■ 1 T I E S
Registration of voters in the 12 A. D. — Continued
VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE AT
LARGE
VOTE FOR JUSTC. OF SUPREME CT. FIRST
.IUDICI.4L DISTRICT
Blue, Soc
Crosswaith, Com _. .-
56, 043
,55, 332
64, 121
63, 903
601
.587
907
904
LipsiJT, Soc
Severn, Soc
25, 455
24,621
3.5. 192
35, 293
604
580
Hudson, Com
Gcrson, Com
Wortis, Com
Sternberg, Com
906
902
VOTE FOR PRES. OF BOARD OF ALDM.
VOTE FOR JUDGES OF CT. OF GEN. SES
Brunner, Dem
1,6S9,765
797, 469
55, 698
64, 436
20, 343
lU, 501
.587
918
Bobriek, Soc .
14. 166
14, 146
14, 324
4,701
4,658
711
Morris, Rep
Baron, Soc
ITaas, Soc
BrauD, Soc
703
729
Amter, Com.._^
Brickman, All Peop
Under, All Peopl
164
168
VOTE FOR ASSOC. JUDGE, CT. OF APLS.
VOTE FOR JUSTICES OF CITY COURT
N. y. c.
12th A. D.
Dolson, Soc
Shapiro, Soc
Sugar, Soc
Cannes, Com
Trachtenberg, Com
Ingram, Com
13, 980
13, 329
12.443
15, 939
16, 005
15,923
725
Rippey, Demo
Hil, Repub
Mrserolc, Soc
Schwab, Com
1, 852, 6.56
605, 380
57, 477
64, 882
21.996
8,738
630
928
644
605
920
918
908
VOTE FOR CONGRESSMAN, SIXTEENTH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT
6 A. D.
8 A. D.
10 A. D.
12 A. D.
14 A. D.
15 A. D.
Total
Total Votes Reed
3,339
1,328
7,539
34, 599
9, 540
2,912
59, 248
O'Connor, Dem
2, 334
535
57
65
64
773
281
33
98
19
2,989
3,580
151
268
104
20. 709
8.929
586
801
1,285
5, 298
2, 930
173
no
294
979
1,577
44
36
45
33. 082
Cudmore, Rep
Trager, Soc
Teichman, Com
Hastings, Loyal
17. 832
1.044
1.378
1,811
VOTE FOR STATE SENATORS, SIXTEENTH SENATORIAL DISTRICT
12th A. D.
14th A. D.
Total
Total Votes Reed
34, 599
31,821
66, 420
M cNaboe, Dem
Bruke, Rep ._ _. _
20, 617
9,827
647
816
19.933
8.359
527
411
40, 550
18, 186
Pushkofl, Soc - -- - --
1,174
Bauni, Com ___ _. __ . . ___ .__
1,227
STATE VOTE FOR GOVERNOR
Lehman, Dem 2,970,595
(Lehman, A. L. P.) 262,192
Bleaklev, Rep 2,450,104
Laidler, Soc 96.208
Minor, Com 40,406
STATE VOTE FOR LIEUT. GOVERNOR
Bray, Democratic 3,028,191
Robertson, Rep 2,136,506
Hahn, Soc 100, 151
Sawyer, Com 66, 132
VOTE FOR ASSEMBLYMAN— TWELFTH
ASSEMBLY DISTRICT
Edmund J. Delany (Dem.) 21,576
.Joseph H. Williams (Rep.) 8,890
Rose Pearlman (Soc.) 671
Chapman T. Smith (Com.) 818
Absentee ballots voted 141
Unrecorded 2, 785
Total 34,740
FINAL NAT. & STATE VOTE FOR PRES.
Roosevelt, Dem
Landon, Rep___
Thomas, Soc
Browder, Com_
United
States
27, 752, 309
16, 682. 342
187, 342
80, 096
New York
State
3, 293, 222
2,' 180,' 670
86, 897
35, 609
Lemke, Union
Colvin, l'rohib-._
Aiken, Soc., Labor
United
States
892, 793
37. 609
12, 793
New York
State
rX-A.MKKK AN rU(trA(;AM)A AC'in ITIES 8753
Daily Worker Nkws
[12th A. D. Feb. 2S. Daily Worker Dept.]
1. Well^did you read liow the Pjirty Builders did it in Wed., February 23rd's
Daily — Here is soiiieniie that signed up 33 railroad workers, all Negroes- — said
"I simply eonceiii rated my elTorts and came ivgularly with the Daily Worker
on that bridge. Wilhout the Party press I could not approach these workers."
James Woolnvan, Salt Lake City, who is 61 and recruited 2H sjiid : "I followed
the Daily Worker Route. You can generally count on the Daily Worker readers
to sign up."
2. The route is coining along swell, how about these corner orders coming
in from the Branches.
3. What are you doing to check up on carrying out our slogan of 2 Dailies,
per day. per conu-ade.
4. How about some real Socialist competition among the units — Whose's chal-
lenging who — let us know —
5. Are you using the Daily as source material for your educational discus-
sions. Let us help you, we have tlie material.
G. Are you using "'The Daily Worker ^Marches On." it is swell stuff if used
right. How about getting up a Daih/ Worker Quiz.
T. Why not have a display of articles appearing in the Daily on the subject
of your educational discussion — e. x.. religion — put up all articles on religion
api^earing in the Daily in the last 2 weeks.
Signing until next week — getting dry — bring in suggestions quick.
READ America's most exciting newspapeh^ — the daily worker
New York State Committee of the Communist Party
Dec. 5, 1936.
the fight for' spanish democracy how the soviet union helps spain —
oue. tasks
Guide for Members of Educational Corps in leading Unit Discussions:
General note : The discussion leader should not try to repeat to the unit in a
■direct formal speech the entire content of the presentation made at the eiluca-
tional corps meeting. This tends to make the talk of the comrade mechanical
and do(S not get the maximum discussion and participation by the Unit members.
An introductory talk of about 30 minutes, designed to stimulate further discus-
.sion is best. The leader of the discussion, through participating in the general
discussion and summary can present the necessary content. Application of the
ta.sks must then be made ly the unit, in the territory, shop, union and mass
organization in which the comrades are active. A planned campaign of agita-
tion and practical assistance to Spanish democracy will result not only in real
help for the Spanish fighters but also result in Party recruiting and building the
Party press.
Reference Reading :
1. S]iecific features of Spanish Revolution — by Comrade Ercoli in the Dec. '36
■Communist.
2. Pamphlet, "How the Soviet Union helps Spain," by Comrade Cannes.
3. Close study of the Daily Worker for day to day events and party policy
in regard to them.
SUGGESTIONS FOR INTRODUCTORY TALK
I. Tlie H'njniflcnncc of the /?/)(7»/.s7i Reroliifio)). — A focal point in the struggle
of all anti-fascists for democracy and world peace. Victory against fascism
will lead to more rapid develoimient towards socialism.
II. Ii(t(kf/roun(l of SixDiish Rrrohitioti. — The conditions in the country — the
status of agriculture and industry. The cultural backwardness of the mass (see
data inclosed).
III. The huUtJhifi of the Peoples Front. — The role of the C. P. of Spain in
pressing for the broader united front of all anti-fascists. The present partici-
pation in the Peoples Front. The hope of Trotskyites to split the Peoples
-Front. (See December Communist.)
8754 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
IV. Some special feattires in the Spanish Revolution.
A. Carrying through democratic bourgeois revolution in the midst of
armed struggle.
B. The present civil war is, in a sense, a national revolutionary war.
C. The influence of the Anarchists.
D. The participation of the various nationalist forces and large sections
of the petty bourgeoisie and even some sections of the bigger
bourgeoisie.
E. Why do we not po.s;e the question of Socialism versus Fascism. The
effect this would have inside and outside Spain. Show how posing
this question this way would make certain elements necessary in
the struggle desert the Peoples Front. This would be objective help
to the Fascists.
V. The U. S. S. R. and "Non-Intervention". — Point out the responsibility of
Leon Blum and the C. P. of France. The C. P. of France fought against this
"non-intervention" pact from the beginning. The action of Blum and the
swinging of the leaders of the labor movement of France and Great Britain
behind this pact placed the Soviet Union in a difficult position. The Soviet
Union joined the pact to hinder the shipment of arms to the fascists while
aiding in every possible icay the Madrid Government. In any race for arms
to Spain, Italy, and Germany are in a far more favorable position than the
U. S. S. R. (If possible get a map of Europe and show that "Soviet Union's
only two routes to Spain are controlled by Germany in the North and Italy
in the South" — Gannes' pamphlet.)
Show how, through the exposure made by the Soviet Union in the London
Connnittee of the fascist help to Spanish reaction, the leaders of the Second
International, the British Trade Unions, and the Amsterdam International
were forced to change their original stand of support to the Non-interven-
tion.
The masses in all countries must aid the Soviet Union in breaking down
all obstacles in the shipment of arms, ammunition, to legal government of
Spain.
VI. Indieate the role and yroicth of the C. P. of France. — How is it fight-
ing for democracy. The Peoples Front is in the present situation, a powerful
united front of all forces fighting for democracy and peace, which will lead
toward higher stages of struggle, to the emancipation of the working class, to
Socialism.
VII. Our tasks. — To arouse the American people as to the significance of the
struggle for democracy and peace as "the cause of all progressive mankind."
Plan actual steps in the unit to mobilize for concrete help for Spanish democ-
racy. Building the Farmer Labor Party in America so that "It Can't Hapijen
Here." Building the Party and Party press.
SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL
I. Background of the Civil War.
1. Spain is a backward agrarian coimtry with strong feudal oppression
heavily falling upon the toiling population.
a. 57% of the population work on land and forests.
b. 2% of the landowners possess 67% of the land.
c. 1,173,000 peasants own 6 million hectares while 103,000 big land-
loi'ds possess 12 million hectares. 5 million — peasants and land-
workers — own nothing. 40% of the land actually in use. 50,000
large landowners in a population of 24 million. 3 million agri-
cultural workers earning 50 cents to 75 cents a day.
d. The Catholic church is the largest landlord in the country, living
on ground rent. There is one priest for every 9O0 inhabitants.
There are 100,734 persons in the clergy.
UN-AMEUICAN rUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §755
II. StatK.s uf Indiistrii.
1. Homo market limited due to small luucha.sing power of poverty-stricken
masses.
2. Unable to compete in international market due to technical backwardness.
3. Semi-feudal cliai-acter of agriculture hinders industrial development.
a. Modern industry is mostly in the hands of foreigners. Chemicals
controlled by the German and French, pneumatic tire and elec-
tro-technical", by the French and Americans. The railroads con-
trolled by French and English capital.
b. There are in Spain today about 2 million industrial workers,
miners, railwaymen, dockers, etc., plus 300,00') domestic workers.
4. The worlving class is c-ourageous, inclined to talve revolutionary action, hut
has lacked, in the past, coordination between the struggles of the work-
ers and peasants.
III. Cnlttinil Dci-r1oi)iiicnt. — Spain is culturally backward.
1. 4r>9f of the population is illitei'ate.
2. The Catholic churdi has 4,804 cultural institutions with 601,950 students.
27,000 in secondary schools. 17,103 in professional institutions.
3. Great struggles have taken place in the past against feudalism and the
church hierarchy resulting in the expulsion of the Jesuits in 1767, 1808,
1836, and 1852.
IV. TJtr Strufff/lc for n Doiiocratir Republic. — Development of the United Front
and the Peoples Front.
1. The Republic of 1031 did not change any of the fundamental evils in Spain.
2. The Monarchist and feudal elements controlled the State apparatus and
the huge wealth of Spain, hindering the application of the Dec. 1931
constitution.
3. The Constitution (1931) provided for—
a. A democratic republic of "workers of all classes".
b. Separation of State and Church.
c. Abolition of religious orders hostile to the Republic.
d. Civil rights, right of free speech, press, and assembly.
e. Pi-otection of the workers, social legislation.
f. Equal rights for both sexes.
g. An agrarian reform law (pas.sed in 1932).
4. Land only to 10,(i();» peasants since 1931 to the amount of about 100,000
acres. It is estimated that if this rate of land distribution would con-
tinue it would require 5,000 years to complete the so-called agrarian
reform.
5. All provisions of the December Constitution were disregarded since it
was enacted.
6. From 1931 the textile industry decreased 40%; coal mining suffered a
surplus reserve of 300,000 tons.
7. Strike struggles, peasants unrest were spreading as a result of the sup-
pression of the rights of workers, land hunger, and lack of civil rights.
S. The Gil-Robles-Lerroux dictatorship attempted to take away the vestiges
of rights won in the struggle for democratic freedom. It provoked the
uprising in October 1934. The C. E. D. A. deliberately attempted to
put their men in the Lerroux cabinet. This incident gave rise to the
revolt.
a. The working population of Asturias held power for 15 days,
b. .5,000 killed and 30,000 imprisoned throughout Spain.
c. Reign of terror was installed.
S. The causes for the failure of the October 19,34 uprising were:
a. No working chiss unity and cohesion of the revolutionary parties.
b. Neutrality of the Anarchists.
c. Middle classes neglected.
d. Peasantry not won over.
8756 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
V. The Peoples Front.
1. In January, 1936, a pact was signed between the Socialist Party, the
Communist Party, Left Republicans, the Republican Union, and the
Catelo Left Party.
2. The pact contained the following main points :
Amnesty.
Reform of the Courts.
Reduction of taxes and excessive rents of the peasants.
Protection of small industry.
Public works for the unemployed.
Regulation of priA^ate banking.
Labor legislature, etc.
New Schools and higher education for workers, students.
International policy according to the principles and methods of the
League of Nations.
3. The February 15, 1936, elections was an overwhelming victory for the
Peoples Front. Of the total 473 deputies elected, 268 were of the Left
and 205 of the Right and Center. C. P. elected 15 deputies.
4. A Victory despite the terror.
VI. Some accomplishments of the Azana Republic from March to July 1036 :
1. Reinstatement of discharged worker and employees for political activities
and 6-month compensation wages.
2. General amnesty.
3. 35,000 peasants and their families, totalling 87,000 peasants, were provided
with land.
4. Restoration of social legislation.
5. Disbandment of the smaller fascist groups.
6. Some of the police force purged of fascists.
7. A commission to fix the blame of the October murderers.
8. Semiautonomous status of Catalonia and Biscay.
VII. The Conununist Party of Spain has repeatedly called for a series of strong
measures to curb the fascists. The Government was weak and vacillating against
the enemy.
1. The United Front between the Socialists and Comnmnists made further
advances.
a. The trade-union unification in one C. G. T.,^ which at the outbreak
of the fascist rebellion had one million.
b. The C. N. T." not unified with the C. G. T. and has 700,000 members.
c. The Socialist and Communist youth organically united into 140,000
members (Previous to unification the Socialist youth had 65.000
members and the YCL 50,000).
VIII. The fascist rebellion of July JS, ID.%. — International fascists help Counter-
revolution.
1. A series of provocations preceded the planned rebellion of the fascists.
a. 90% of the strikes turned into lockouts.
b. closing of the factories.
c. Fascists carry out nnirders and burning of Churches.
d. 5 million pesetas smuggled out of Spain.
e. Smuggling of arms and ammunition into Spain.
f. The Millionaire Juan March finances the preparations.
g. Snajurjo spent a few months in Germany preparing the revolt.
2. It is a recognized fact that since the rebellion. German and Italian fascism
have supplied weapons of destruction. The Foreign Minister of the
Mulrid government made a full report on the question at the League of
Nations.
3. 75% of the standing army of 105,000 went over to the fascists. About half
of the Civil Guard and the Assault Guard sided with democracy.
iC. G. T. — General Confederation of Labor, luuler combined influence of Socialist and
Communist. , ,. ,. , . „
2 C. N. T. — National Confederation of Labor— under anarcho-syndicalist influence.
UN-A.ME1U('AN I'UorACiAXDA ACTIVH'IKS 8757
Nkw Yokk State Committkk ok the Commvxist Party
Decembek 11, 193G.
EDUCATIONAL SUPPLEMENT
THE seamen's strike
References:
1. Labor Notes, November lOofi.
2. Daily Worker — News and Editorials on strike note especially editorial
of Dec. 10th, 1936 as aid in explaining to trade unions.
(a) The "outlaw" charge against the East Coast Maritime Strike.
(b) Who is David C4ranceV
(c) Unions officially in strike.
Srrike of 39.<'0n maritime workers on the West Coast, October 30, paralyzed
shipping industry. Basic demands are for continuation of hiring halls, pref-
erential employment for licensed men, and six-hour day for longshoremen.
Unions willing to arbitrate other demands including wage increases. Strike
spread also to eastern and Gulf ports Report on November 3rd indicated total
of 278 ships involved and 80.000 men affected (including non-marine workers).
New York World Tclajram 11-13-30.
Conditions of Scamoi. — Revealed in New Government Report Federal Co-
ordinator of Transportation has recently published a report by the sections of
Research and Labor Relations on "Hours, Wages, and Working Conditions in
Domestic Water Transportation". Owing to complexity of this industry and
the great detail of the data presented, we can cite only a few of the significant
facts brought out. The survey on which the report is based was made during
1933.
"An accurate census of number of employees engaged in domestic water
transportation," states the report, "is not available." Leaving out employment
that is exclusively intrastate, it is estimated that in 193-t there were about
293,000 employees' in both domestic and foreign trade. Of these, about 114,000
were employed on vessels, about 110,000 were stevedores and longshoremen, and
about 69.000 were other shore workers. The following facts from the report
deal largely with conditions of seamen :
Hours: A basic eight-hour day prevailed in June 1933 for the majority of
seamen. But on common-carrier vessels in the Atlantic-Gulf Coastwise trade,
a third of the deck crew and '>'>Vc of the workers in the steward's department
were reported working on a 12-hour schedule. On common-carrier vessels in
the Intercoastal trade, 28% of the deck crew were reported on a 12-hour
schedule and 34% in steward's department were scheduled for 8 to 12-hour day.
On (Jreat Lakes common-carrier vessels, all officers, 12% of the engine-room
personnel, 3.")% of the deck crew, and 33% of the steward's department were
reported as scheduled for 12 hours a day.
While ve.s.sel employees of contract and private carriers on both the Atlantic-
Gulf Coastwise and Pacific Coastwise service reported an 8-hour day, on the
Great Lakes nearly 75%> of the licensed officers and more than 50% of
unlicensed personnel were scheduled for 12 hours a day.
On Atlantic and Pacific Inland common carriers and those on Mississppi
River and its tributaries, a 12-hour day was found to be almost universal.
Wages : Lowest wage rates paid in June 1933 to unlicensed workers on
common carriers engaged in offshore trade, were reported by Intercoastal ships,
the next lowest by Atlantic-Gulf Coastwise ships. Seventy percent of the
unlicensed personnel in the former trade and 59% of that in the latter received
$50 per month or less, as compared with 42% in Atlantic Coastwise service,
37% in Pacific Coastwise service, 43% in Pacific-Alaska service, and 39% on
the Great Lakes.
Ninety-thiee percent of luilicensed workers on common-carrier vessels in the
Atlantic Iidand trade received ."i;75 pei- month or less; 4% received between $70 and
$10(» per month, as compared with 48% and 43% respectively for similar em-
ployees in the Pacific Inland ser^ice.
In barge-line operations on the Missis.sippi River and its tributaries, about
55% of the workers other than officers received between $26 and $50 per month.
Overtime: On Pacific Coast, unlicensed personnel in the offshore trades are paid
at the rate of 60c pt^r hour, except foi- members of the steward's department below
8758 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
the rank of cook, whose overtime rate is 50e' : and in Pacific Steam Schooner and
Pacific-Alaska services at the rate of 70(:'. Atlantic agreement did not provide for
overtime payment to unlicensed personnel until after September 26, 1936, when
provision was made to pay overtime, but under conditions different from those
in effect on Pacific Coast,
Living conditions : "No general survey of living conditions on board ships was
undertaken," states the report, but statements made at public hearings and
references to living conditions in union agreements indicate that "quarters of
unlicensed personnel, however, are unusually overcrowded, ill-venti'ated and
unsanitary. While food allowances are adequate, there have been many com-
plaints that food is often poorly cooked and badly served * * *. It is evident
that too little attention has been paid by ship architects and ship operators to the
importance of living conditions."
Training and hiring: There has been little attempt to establish training pro-
cedures for able and ordinary seamen. "Lack of adequate training for certificated
lifeboat men is particularly noticeable."
"Where unions have obtained suflicient strength to establish hiring halls, some-
•what more orderly hiring procedures have been established."
New York State Committee
Communist Party
eduoationax department
March 29, 1937.
mat day discussion outline
I. May Dai/ an American Institution.
A. 1886. — The American Federation of Trades and Labor Unions called a
one-day general strike in the struggle for an 8-hour day.
B. 300,000 took part in the first May Day demonstration; the 8-hour day
was won, but not without bloodshed, at the McCormack Factory "riot"
and the Haymarket "riot." Eight labor leaders were framed and hung
as a result of the Haymarket bomb explosion.
II. Maif Dai/. 19S6 to Maij Day, 1937, AlarKs Oiif.'^tan(1iiif/ ccononuc gains for the
Workiny Class and unity in titruyylc of Ncyro and n-liitc.
The great task of organizing the unorganized and is going forward, under the
impetus of the C. I. O., which has taken up the long-time party slogan of industrial
organization.
1. Marine Strike.
West Coast : 40.000 men strike for 98 days.
Atlantic Coast and Gulf Coast .ioined and struck for 85 days. Laid
foundation for National Maritime Federation as step toward industrial
union in marine. Large increase in union membership and improvement
of working conditions. Inten.sified succe.ssful fight on "fink books."
Strengthened labor nationally.
2. General Motors and Chrysler strikes.
C. I. O. makes first drive in giant open-shop mass-production industry
and uses new weapon — SIT-DOWN. Mass sit-downs in key plants
affected 200.000 workers. Using industrial union, class struggle tactics
proves successful.
Capitalist bosses let loose all their forces. Capitalist press with dis-
torted news. Vicious news reels. Lying broadcasts. Vigilantes. State
militia. Injunctions. Class-collaborating AFL leaders like Frey and
Green.
Middle class generally sympathetic to strikers in strike area. Women
and youth actively participated in struggle.
Government administration.
Murphy responded to mass pressure, the strike ended without the
threatened force eviction of the strikers.
Working class solidarity tremendous in strike areas ; the whole pro-
gressive labor movement and the leadership of the C. I. O. actively behind
the strike. The Flat Glass Workers, for example, settled a 10-week-old
UN-AMERICAN PU0rA(4ANDA ACTTVITIES 8759
strike in order to bring pressure to bear on GM by selling glass to GM's
competitors. Ford and Chrysler. In this way labor used a class strategy,
concentrating all its forces on one point.
The Vivtory.
Recognition of U. A. W. as sole bargaining ayeut for workers in 20
plants for 6 months ; and recognition as agent for its membership in 49
plants.
No discriminations against union members or strikes. Negotiations
for conditions. $2r>.00<l.(i<l<) wage increases. Injunction quashed. Mem-
bership in union multiplied. Open shop rule broken through. Other
companies in automobile, etc., give wage increases. Strengthened pro-
gressive labor forces in the struggle in steel.
3. Sti'ii.
Successful organization drive (unity of Negro and white) victory in
auto, forces the Carnegie-lHinois Steel Corporation, the one that had
smashed the Homestead strike in 1887, to settle with the C. I. O. in 1937.
An agreement was signed affecting 120,000 men. Union recognition, the
40-hour week and wage increases were gained. The example of Carnegie-
Illinois was followed by otlier steel mills.
4. Pending struggles in mass productioti industries.
General Electric, textile, coal, rubber, cement, hosiery, etc., etc.
III. The Struggle Against Reaetion: Tmairds a Fanner Lahor Party.
The Party's tactic of defeating reaction and building the forces of independent
political action was successful and proved to be a factor in clarifying the issues
(contrast Socialist Party sectarianism). Hearst, the Liberty League, Coughlin,
and the camp of reaction were overwhelmingly repudiated. The peojile voted for
a progressive legislative program and for a better life. Labor made strategic
gains, which it began to cash in on in the strike wave after election, using pressure
on Roosevelt and Murphy to help win in their demands.
In Congress there was formed an organized progressire hloe, which actually
put forward its own nominee for Speaker and asked for Committee appointments
in its own name. The bloc consists of Farmer Laborites, Wisconsin Progressive,
and Progressive Democrats ; it now numbers 17 to 20 representatives. It has
taken progressive, determined positions on "neutrality," relief, W. P. A., sit-
down strikes, and the Supreme Court.
Labor's Non-Partisan League, at its national conference, determined to coop-
erate with Farmer and other groups (National Negro Congress) and to form state
organizations.
Supreme Court.
In an attempt to cheat the workers of their election victory, of their hard-won
industrial victories, and to prevent progressive legislation, the camp of reaction
has swung all its power behind the drive to defeat the President's Supreme Court
proposals. The reactionaries have skillfully been able to split awa.v some pro-
gressives like Wheeler and Nye, who raise the false issue of action by the slow
process of constitutional amendment, as an alternative to the President's
proposals.
Labor and all progressive forces must fall behind the President's proposals and
not allow the issue to be confused. The question of amending the constitution is
a supphunentary issue. The C. P. favors after the passage of the present pro-
posals the passing of an amendment to deprive the Supreme Court of its usurped
power to review legislation.
IV. International Solidarity.
1. The foremost battlefront of the entire world — the anti-fascist movement — now
lies in Spain. There the iniity of the people's front is gathering sufficient strength
toi>assover to the oftensive ngjiinst the interiiati<in:il fascist invasion. All jwssi-
ble support must be given to Spain, especially to kill the "neutrality" legislation.
The fascist rape of Etliiopia and the invasion of Si)ain, and the threats against
France, Czechoslovakia, and all democratic countries, especially the Soviet Union,
the only proletarian democracy, marks the imminence of world war. May Day
this year must symbolize the struggle against fascism for peace and support of
the peace policies of the Soviet Union.
2. The action of the Soviet Union's courts in ferreting out the counter-revolu-
tionary Ti-otskyites and exposing their connection with the war plans of 1937 of
M'->.
8760 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Hitler and Japan constitutes a great service to the peace forces of the world.
The peace policy of the Soviet Union thus scored another triumph for the people
of the world.
3. The New Soviet Constitution, the greatest, most progressive document of its
kind in world history, was a further blow against world reaction and forms a
rallying ground in the struggle against fascism.^
V. May Day and the Communist Party.
In all of the struggles recounted above, the Party has played a large, and at
some times, a leading part. It is necessary to use the preparations of MAY DAY
to BUILD THE PARTY. When you review the work and show non-Party masses
what has been accomplished in the last year and what must be accomplished in
the next, it should be possible to make thousands join the Party.
The Daily Worker must be strengthened in the May Day campaign. Trade '
unionists and others who are preparing for ]\Iay Day can be made to understand
the role of the Daily and Sunday Workers in these preparations.
In all agitation and propaganda, the role of the Party in these struggles can
be brought forward to strengthen our work and build the Party.
VI. The Ultimate Aim— TOWARDS SOCIALISM.
The struggles of the past j^ear form a step forward in the struggle for social-
ism. The movement towards mass industrial unionism, towards a National
Earmer Labor Party i.s- at the same time a struggle for Socialism, it is a realistic
struggle which takes into account the present conditions of the masses. Let
lis raise vigorovasly the slogan, through democracy to socialism.
VII. Organizational proposals.
(a) If possible, organize local neighborhood meetings; (b) issue section and
unit leatlets and shop papers; (c) special preparations to sell the special pre-
May Day issue of the daily worker for April 14th; (d) special mobilizations to
■canvass with May Day edition of rhe Daily Worker; (e) intensihcation of neigh-
borhood struggles for relief, housing, etc.; (f) stimulate trade-union organization
in your locality.
VIII. Slogans.
Organize the Unorganized ! Every Town a Union Town ! For a Powerful
AND United Lakor Movement !
Abolish thp: Usurped Powers of thei Supremei Court! Support Every Meas-
ui E Which Curhs the Autocratic Rule of the Judiciary ! Preser\'e and Ex-
tend Democratic Rights ! Build the Amek,ican Peoples Front Against Red-
action, Fascism, and War I Build the Farmer Labor Party, the Party of the
People Against Wall Street !
Support the Heroic Struggle of the Spanish People Against the Fascist
Invasion of Hitler and Mitssolini ! End the Embargo Against the Demo-
cratic AND Friendly Government of Spain ! Support the Peace Policies of
the Soviet Union — the Bulwark of Peace and Democracy ! Keep America
Out of War by Keeping War Out of the World ! Build a Mighty Peace Move-
ment of Labor Farmers and All Progressives !
Reading Sii(>gesfions.
"The Connnunist" for March and April.
Browder — Plenum report on the Election Results.
I\Iay Day Pamphlets.
the daily worker.
New Y^ork State Committee of the Communist Party
April 6, 1937.
remindp:rs on procedure in disciplinary cases
To Be Read at All Unit Meetings :
Dear Comrades :
(1) Every accused member has the right to a hearing and must be given
an opportunity to present his side before disciplinary action is taken
against him. Notes or minutes should be taken at such hearings. These
hearings, however, do not have to be legalistic aifairs. Sometimes written
statements in reply to charges are sufficient.
IX-A.MKKUAN rUorAlJA.NDA ACTIVITIES 8761
(2) Every iiccusod nunnhcr lias tho riiiht to appeal the decision to a
liijiliei' I'ai'ty coniinittee. Such appeals should be made in writing and ex-
plain on what grounds appeal is made.
(3) -1// disciplinary actions must be immediately reported by units to
section, by section to counties; and by counties to the State Committee.
Fractions in organizations nntst iiiimciliatchj report all cases to the counties
in which they are functioning.
(4) In reporting cases the lollowing information »u/.v/ be given: (a) name
of accused; (b) home address; (c) his or her unit, section, county; (d)
when joined Party; (e) any interruptions; (f) former and present func-
tions in Party: (g) occupation; (li) which mass organization belongs to;
<i) exposure of spies and swindlers should be accompanied with (in addi-
ti(ni to. above information) good personal description, and, if possible, with
photos.
(5) The following are the disciplinary actions that may be taken against
the accused member, in order of their severity ;
(a) Criticism or severe criticism.
(b) Censure or severe censure.
(c) Either of above with warning.
(d) Removal from office.
(e) Dropping from rolls.
(f) Expulsions.
(6) All charges against section or higher functionaries must be reported
to the District as soon as they are received, followed up later with findings
and decisions.
All removals from office require the approval of the next higher
committee.
All Expvlsio.xs and IIeadmissions of Previously Expelled Mem-
bers Need Appuoxal of the State Bukeau or State CoifMiTTEE.
State Disciplinary Com.
KEEP THIS ON FILE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
Educational Department. ~ March 1, 1938.
New York State Committee,
Discussion Outline.
Women and the People's Front
(International Women's Day, March 8)
Earl Browder. The People's Front (p. 46, Report to the 9th Convention of the
C. P.) : "There are hundreds of thousands of women in the trade unions, there
are multiplied numbers in industry still unorganized, there are millions of
women in mass organizations of varied sorts. Their problems are growing
more difficult, they are searching for answers, for a new way out, just as we
have seen among the youth. All the possibilities exist for a women's move-
ment on the same scale as the youth movement. It is the task of our Party
to find and develop those women with the capacity of creating and leading
such a movement."
I. Introduction.
The growing struggle for democracy, security, jobs, and peace has brought
more, and more women into social and political life. The celebration of In-
ternational Women's Day should therefore serve to rally the Party to intensify
its efforts to involve women in activity and to guide their struggles into the
channels of organization of a democratic front to defeat the reactionaries iu
the 1938 Congressional elections.
II. Historical Background.
Just like May Day, International Women's Day is of American origin.
The designation of a special day devoted to propaganda among women was
first made hi/ the Socitilixt Parti/ i)i the U. 8. A. in 1!)0S, The day was con-
ceived to be for the purpose of advocating woman suffi-age which was then
agitating the middle-class women and for general agitation among working
women. It was designated on the last Sunday in February.
8762 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Clara Zetkin, at an International Conference of Socialist women in Copen-
hagen in 1!)10 proposed that this day become International. Comrade Zetkin
then put this resolution into action in Germany and for the first time it was
celebrated in 1911 in that country. During the campaign under Comrade
Zetkin's leadership the fact that the struggle for equal rights for women was
only part of the struggle for the emancipation of the workers from capitalism
and called upon the women to mobilize and struggle for their special needs as
well as for the improvements of the conditions of the toilers as a whole. The
demonstrations in Germany were highly successful and in Berlin there were
collisif)ns with the police.
In 1914 Rosa Luxemburg in Germany rallied the women for the struggle
against impending war and was arrested for her activity. On International
Women's Day the women of Germany demonstrated against the anrest of Red
Rosa and against war. Huge demonstrations against war were held in many
countries under the leadership of the Socialist movement.
On March 8, 1917, the women of tsarist Russia, defying the brutal terror of
the police, left factories and marched into the streets demanding "bread and
an end to the capitalist war." Their action was thus the forerunner of the
great October revolution and through the bitter years of intervention and
famine the women fought valiantly along with the men to maintain the Soviet
power. In 1918 and 1919 International Women's Day in the Soviet Union
became the rallying cry for increased defense and against the international
imperialist invaders. Today they enjoy the fruits of their struggle — equal with
men in the building of Socialism. While the October Revolution freed the
women, the new Soviet Constitution guarantees full security — complete civil
and economic rights.
On March 8, 1930, International Women's Day in Spain was celebrated b>
80,CM)0 demonstrators marching through Madrid under the slogans of liberation
of women of Spain from capitalist exploitation and the menace of war and,
fascism. A. Pasionaria, the most popular and beloved woman in Spain, in-*
spired these demonstrators.
III. Militant Tr.\ditions of Women.
(a) Women began their struggle for equality during the Revolutionary War
of 1776 and the struggle to enact the Constitution when they tried to have their
rights recognized and guaranteed in the Constitution.
(b) In 1834, there was organized the first working women's association, in
Lowell, Mass. After a great textile strike there, about 2.o00 women organized
the Factory Girls' Association. In 1835, in New York, a Female Union Associa-
tion was formed, to be followed by similar groups in Baltimore, Philadelphia,
Lynn, etc.
(c) In 1848, right in New York State (Seneca Falls), there began the
organized struggle of women for equality at the Women's Rights Convention
which drafted the Women's Rights Declaration calling for the right to vote, to
hold political office, to own proijerty, to make contracts, to testify in court, etc.
This was the beginning of what came to be known as the Suffragette Move-
ment. It produced such outstanding women leaders as Frances Wright, Eliza-
beth C. Stanton, Susan B. Anthony.
(d) Abolitionism al.so found its women advocates and leaders. In Phila-
delphia, the Female Anti-Slavery Society supported abolition and memoralized
Congress to free the slaves, and also organized lectures at which Negro and
white mingled in the audience. The Negro people, however, developed their
own great woman leader, Harkiet Tubman, friend of .Tohn Brown, and called
Moses by her people because she led more than 300 of them to escape from
slavery through the "Underground Railway." From New York she returned
to the South 19 times (when there were rewards amounting to $40,000 being
offered for her capture) to help Negroes escape! During the Civil War she
was a valuable aid to the Northern armies, for whom she served as scout,
guide, nurse, and spy. She died in Auburn, New York, in 1913, respected by all
friends of progress.
In contemporary times, women have been active and militant in the great
labor struggles in textile, mining, transport, and steel. They have developed
living leaders like Lucy Parsons, Ella May Wigging, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn,
Ann Burlak, Maude Mae White, Negro woman leader of Ohio, our great and
famous Mother Ella Reeve Bloor.
UN-AMERICAN l^KOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8763
IV. The Strigcie jvr Eqt'ality.
Wliat itiotiraniV •"Equal liighls" Amendment of the Woman's Charter?
(a) The Equal Rif/hta Aiueiiffnicut.
Although it takes up the line oUl slogan of the suffrage movement for equal
rights, this proposed amendment to the U. S. Constitution is a demagogic threat
to all women. Ir was formulated in 1!122 hy the Woman's Party, which lias in re-
cent years hecome a close ally of the Repuhlican Party. The essence of tlie dan-
ger in this movement lies in the fact that if the Amendment were passed, it would
wipe out all the valuahle, necessary, and socially useful Protective legislation
that has heen passed to safeguard women and mothers from douhle exploitation
hy the Big Business interests. Thus all niininunn-ware legislation f(u- women
would he declared unconstitutional ; all special health regulations would he abol-
ished. The amendment would actually perpetuate the existing inequality that
rises from the fact that the capitalists take advantage of women to give them less
pay for the same work, to discharge them during pregnancy, etc. Anatole France
pointed to the hollowness of bourgeois political democracy without economic de-
mocracy in his famous saying: '"Under the law the rich and the poor are both
prevented from sleeping under the bridges at night." So we might point to the
falseness of the Equal Rights Amendment by saying: "Under tliis law, men and
women would both have the right to bear children." The real way to wipe out
existing inequalities is to pass special protective legislation for women to protect
them from double exploitation.
(b) The Women's Charter.
This cliarter provides for real equality. The movement for it began in Decem-
ber 193S3, and has gained great momentum. Recently the International Labor Con-
ference in Geneva passed resolutions presented by the American delegation en-
dorsing the principles of the Charter. These principles are simply and clearly pre-
sented in the full text, which reads as follows:
"Women shall have full political and civil rights ; full opportunity for educa-
tion ; full opi)ortunity for work according to their individual abilities, with safe-
guards against physically harmful conditions of employment and economic ex-
ploitation ; they shall receive compensation, without discrimination because of
sex. They shall be assured security of livelihood, including tlie safeguarding of
motherhood. The provisions necessary for the establishment of these standards
shall be guaranteed by government, which shall insure also the right of united
action toward the attainment of these aims.
"Whei"e sjiecial exploitation of women workers exists, such as low wages which
provide less tlian the livin ■■ standards attainable, unhealthful working conditions,
or long hours of work which result in physical exhaustion and denial of the right
to leisure, such conditions shall be con-ected through social and labor legislation
which the world's experience shows to be necessary."
V. Women Under Socialism.
The great Stalinist Constitution (Article 122) guarantees women full equality
plus all the necessary protection: ' Wtmien in the U. S. S. R. ai'e accorded equal
rights with men in all .spheres of economic, state, cultural, .social, and political life.
The possibility of exercising these rights of women is insured by affording women
equally with men the Tight to work, payment for work, rest and leisure, social
insurance, and education, and by state protection of the interests of mother and
child, maternity leave with pay, and the provision of a wide network of maternity
hoine.s, nurseries, and kindergartens."
VI. Women Under Fasci -m.
Unheard of misery and war is the lot of women. Wherever possible they are
driven from their .jobs, restricted to the home, and turned into breeders of
cannon fodder. They are ruled out of the professions and industry and forced
into domestic service. Their political rights are destroyed. Their wages are
reduced. The Cost of Living .Ti'mps, providing additional burdens for the
housewife. The future for the children is dark and a source of constant worry
and fear on the part of the mother.
VII. The Role of Women in the People's Front Movement.
(a) Working Wotnen.
Their gre;it need is for trade unions, and hundreds of thousands of
them are joining the C. I. O. unions in the present drive to organize the
3764 UN-AMERICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
unorganized (textile, laundry, office, department-store, white-collar unions,
etc. I. Their * * *
(The remainder of this report was missing.)
New York County Committee
Communist Party, March 1, 1938.
Education Department. Discussion Outline.
Spain and the People's Front
Sections I and II are introductory. The hulk of the emphasis should be placed
on Sections III, IV, and V. The comrade leading the discussion should, with the
aid of the unit bureau, supply the items for V-F.
The growing seriousness of the present world situation, with Hitler and tlie
fascist triple alliance driving ever faster and more openly toward world war,
makes the struggle for collective security and for the defense of Spain and China
of prime importance. Particularly the capitulation of Chamberlain to Italy,
with the almost certain recognition of the Ethiopian contpiest and the probable
acceptance of fuller Italian intervention in Spain, places the struggle for the
maintenance of Spanish democracy in the forefront of the tasks of the world
proletariat.
"Tlie aggression of which we are the victims is directed not only against Spain,
all the free and independent peoples of Europe are the objects of this aggression.
And the tragedy is that these peoples, deceived or else misled by their govern-
ments, have not yet been able thoroughly to understand this truth." Jose Diaz,
General Secretary of the Communist Pai'ty of Spain.
I. The advances of the People's Fi-ont government in the last nine months
indicate cimclnsively that, bari'ing open and complete intervention by Italy and
Germany, the Spanish people can defeat fascism.
a. Establishment of powerful, well-functioning military machine :
1. Completion of the building of a regular army, with ti-ained reserves.
2. Setting up a single, unified con)mand.
3. Strengthening of civilian support.
4. Compulsory militai'y training.
^^. Elimination of untrustworthy and incompetent officers.
(\. Placing of industry on war footing.
b. Institution of military offensive — with i)rilliant results:
1. Brunete.
2. Capture of Quinto and P.elchite.
3. Teruel.
4. Fascists resort to barbarous murder of women and children as
only way of retaTation :
a. Bombing of Valencia, Barcelona, Madrid.
c. Liquidation of Trotskyists and the P. O. U. M.
d. Pleroic su])i)ort of international proletariat, despite tlie vacillation and
treachery of democratic governments.
"Our people will be forever thankful to the Communist International and to its
glorious helmsman. Comrade DiniitrotT, who has carried on an untiring struggle
and is now engaged in the struggle to secxu'e tliat all the forces of the inter-
national proletariat unite and act jointly in aid of Spain." Jose Diaz.
a. Achievements of the International Battalion :
1. Madrid.
2. Guadalajara.
3. Jaraina.
4. Teruel.
b. Formation of People's Front organiz itions for —
1. Financial support.
2. Medical aid, food, clothing.
3. Moral support.
c. Support from the U. S. S. R.
UX-AMERICAN I'lJOl'ACANDA ACTIVITIKS 8765
"Only the Soviet Union lias diuMily defended ns at all inrcniational conferences,
airainst the foul intrifjiies of the a.iii;ressors. and ajiainst the hlind and eriniiiial
weakness of the diploniaey of the hourgeois-deniocratie countries." Jose Uiaz.
1. Arms and technicians to counterbalance armed fascist intervention.
2. Food and money.
3. In international diplomacy :
X. Leajiue of Nations.
y. Xoninterveution Connnittee.
z. Xyon Conference on piracy in Mediterranean.
4. Moral support.
II. Tli(> I'eopl(>'s Front .government, despite all obstacles, has brought abi)ut
tremendous internal improvemenis :
a. Agriculture :
1. Expropriation of land belonging to Luulowners participating in
revolt ( bulk of land ) .
2. Institution of centers for aiding and educating peasants, which
resulted in a technical revolution.
3. Development of cooperative.s as agency of agrarian revolution.
4. Encouragement of voluntary collectives where feasible.
b. Industry :
1. Large industries owned by State.
2. Big capitalists eliminated.
3. Small shopkeepers and businessmen protected.
0. Trade Union Unity :
1. Under the People's Front Government the U. G. T. (Socialist) and
C. N. T. (Anarchist) have been brought closer together:
a. Unity negotiations now under way.
2. C. N. T. opposed to political action on principle, has supported the
Popular Front throughout.
d. Culture and education :
1. Considerable steps to liquidate illiteracy:
a. Organization of women and girls into shock brigades against
illiteracy.
2. Education of talented children.
2. Establishment of workers' institutes, with salaries for needy stu-
dents, short-term collese cour.'-es, technical comses. etc.
4. Education among the s( Idiers.
5. Collaboration with agricultural ministry.
6. Responsibility for art treasures.
III. Role of the Communi.st Party in building the People's Front :
a. C. P. originally responsible for the united front with Socialists and for
the formation of the People's Front.
b. Military achievements :
1. Fifth regiment, outstanding front line fighters despite heavy losses
due to bad organization of Caballero government.
2. Had political commissariat established as link to ijeople.
3. Fought for unified command :
a. Elimination of untrustworthy officers and elevation of
civilian officers.
b. Institution of regular discipline and conscription.
c. C. P. worked most earnestly, faithfully, and vigilantly for the unity of
Spain and the success of the People's Front government :
1. Headed off hasty, premature actions:
a. Stopped general strike, 1936.
b. Checked immediate or forced collectivization of farms.
X. Lack of material prerequisities for collectivization^
power, machinery, technique, etc.
y. Peasants not yet prepared to accept collectivization.
8766 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
2. Called for unity — The People's Front at all costs :
a. Worked for unity of Socialists and Communists.
b. Stopped quarrels between parties.
c. Checked personal rivalries, e. g., Caballero and Prieto for
premiership.
d. Worked for unity in the trade-union movement.
e. Resistance to antireligious pressiu'e of anarchists.
3. Fearlessly exposed Caballero when he proved himself inadequate
as premier :
a. Failure to cleanse State Apparatus and army of fascists,
spies, and traitors.
b. Failure to form a regular army with a unified command.
c. Failure to estimate correctly the extent of the war.
d. Failure to organize industry on a war basis.
e. Failure to react strongly to fascist-Trotskyist — P. O. U. M.
uprising in Barcelona.
f. Considerable responsil)ility for fascist successes up to the
gates of INIadrid. for inactivity on the Aragon fi-ont, for
the loss of Malaga, for tlie defeat of the P>:isques. etc.
g. Tendency to attack critics (especially C. P.) as traitors.
h. Stubbornness, lack of responsiveness to masses, political
vanity.
IV. Spain is the living proof of the revolutionary character of the People's
Front tactic, showing bow the People's Front leads toward a higher form of
democracy and indicating "the possibility for the peaceful development to
Socialism :"
a. Popular revolution :
1. Government representative of and responsible to the people.
2. Central authority established on popular basis.
3. Church eliminated as political or economic force.
4. Progress in popular culture.
5. Technical progress in agriculture and industry.
6. People's Army.
7. Emancipated womanhood and youth.
b. Special character differing from ordinary bourgeois democracy:
1. Change in conception of democracy:
a. Unparalleled mass participation in public life.
b. More direct mass influence on government.
2. Change in content :
a. People armed.
b. No large landowners ; land distributed.
c. Large industries owned by State, Unions:
X. Run by workers.
y. Big capitalists eliminated.
d. No large private bankers :
X. In hands of State.
y. In hands of workers.
V. Tasks in U. S. A.
"I am distrustful. I only believe what I see. I have been deeply moved by
the demonstrations of solidarity, but I would prefer more tangible things. If I
would see more clothes, more food arriving — that is, if the concrete aid became
moi-e effective — then I would believe that the solidarity had grown. I have
beard many words, many promises, during the last year. I would now like to
see them followed by appropriate deeds." General Miaja, Commander in Chief
of the Spanish Army.
a. Increases support of Spanish Loyalists
1. Support of the International Brigade
2. Material needs, money, food, clothing, medical supplies, support
of refugee children
3. Intensive campaign for membership in the Friends of the Abra-
ham Lincoln Brigade
UN-A.MKRirAX PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8767
b. Pressure to change policy of isolation to one of collective action to guar-
antee the ;iss:i"essor
1. ImplenuMit I'les. Roosevelt's Chicago address of October 5th
a. Piissnge of O'Connell Peace Act to embargo aggressors and
open our markets to victimized nations
2. Support of the American I^eague for Peace and Democracy
3. Boycott .7a])aii. as a blow at international fascism
c. Exposure of the sabotage of the Trotskyists. Lovestoneites and Socialists
1. Their defense of betrayals and counter-revolutionary activities in
Spain
2. The lying reports of Sam Baron
3. The isolationist attitude of Norman Thomas
4. Their support of Ludlow Amendment
5. Their slamlerons attacks on the U. S. S. R.'s policy toward Spain
d. Clarificjition of the role of the U. S. S. R. and C. P. in building the
People's Front
e. The performance of these tasks will
1. Strengthen the Spanish People's Front and hasten its movement
in the direction of »Socialism
2. Help to crystallize the People's Front in the U. S. A. and on a
world wide scale
f. Tasks of our unit
SUGGESTED READINGS
"Rally closer the Ranks of the People's Front" — Jose Dias (Communist Inter-
national, January 1938)
"The Change in Spain" — Robert Minor (The Communist, August 1937)
Heroic Spain — Marty
"The Victory of the Spanish I'eople" — Diaz (Communist International, May
1937)
The Spanish Revolution — Ercoli
Spain in Revolt — Gaimes and Repard
Spain and the People's l>ont — Dimitroff
Next Steps to Win the War in Spain — Browder and Lawrence
How the Soviet Union Helps Spain — Cannes
Life and Death of a Spanish Town— Paul
International Press Correspondence — Vol. 17, Nos. 30. 42, 45, 49, 50, 53, 56;
Vol. IS, No. 1.
OuB Election Campaign and Its Relation to the American Labor Party
Communist Party, New York District, August 26, 1936.
Method of Presentation to Units. — This material is not to be repeated to the
Cfmirades in a speech. Questions in writing or orally should be noted. Answers
are to be given by comrades in general discussion. The leader of the discus-
sion to use outlines as guide in meeting correctly the problems raised by the
comrades. Where sharp differences develop, make careful notation of the
questions and the answers, consult the section committee and bring back the
opinion given, not as "orders," but as a guide for further discussion and
acceptance by the unit.
I. Parties, issues in the election campaign.
(a) The chief enemy of the peace, freedom, and prosperity of the American
people is the Republican Party and its reactionary allies. Defeat the Landon-
Hearst-Liberty League-Wall Street alliance.
(b) Roosevelt and his administi'ation are retreating before the attacks of
reaction and surrendering position after position to the main enemy. Stop the
surrender of our rights and interests in Washington.
(c) The Socialist Party, alter breaking loose from its reactionary Old Guard,
is moving into the baclcwater of doctrinaii-e sectarianism, drifting out of the
mass currents of American life. Win the Socialists for the people's united fi-ont,
for the Farmer Labor Party.
(d) The Farmer Labor Party is rapidly growing in states and localities, it is
organizing itself on a national scale. Support the program and platform of the
Chicago Farmer Labor Party conference, build the Farmer Labor Party.
62626 — 41— vol. 14 39
3768 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIPIS
(e) The Communist presidential ticket is tlie only banner in the national elec-
tions rallying and organizing all the forces of the people ag'ainst reaction, fascism,
and war, building the j^eople's front in the United States. Vote the Communist
presidential ticket.
II. Applying the general line of our party in New York City.
Every community in the state must analyze the concrete situation and adopt a
policy following the general line of the Party and based on actual conditions in
the community.
(a) Nationally our main attack is against the Republican Party as the out-
standing carrier of fascist trends, as the representative of the Hearst-Liberty
League set-up. In New York City it is Taminany that is tied np witli the Liberty
Leayuc through Al Smith and others. In New York City Tammany is that extreme
reactionary force that we brand Hearst. Tammany controls the head and high
officials of the Police Department; the Board of Aldermen and the Board of
Estimate. It has used this control in the same manner as the arch reactionary
forces throughout the country. Brutality of police officials in the labor struggles,
tho I'ole of the police in Harlem, the series uf measures attacking foreign born
workers, free speech and ijress, finger printing, etc. Many other instances can
be given to substantiate our estimate of Tammany as the arch reactionary force
in our city. In New York City our main fire must be direeted against Tammany.
III. Our form of criticism, and attack against La Giiardio.
LaGuardia is not fighting Tammany sufficiently. He does not struggle against
the Tammany controlled city legislative bodies even for those mild reforms that
he is proposing. LaGuardia accepts defeat in the Board of Alderman. He does
not, as chief executive of the city, raise these issues beffire the masses in order
to get their support for an attack by the people against Tammany Hall.
IV. Labor's T^on-Partisan League in New York City and State — The American
Labor Party.
Nationally we estimated Labor's Non-Partisan League as a weak, a vacillating
but nevertheless a beginning towards labor's independent political action, with
possibilities of developing along the lines Ave hoped for that development.
In New York City and State Labor's Non-Partisan League Jias had to go further
organizationally than it has done nationally. They have set up an organization,
independent from the Democratic Party, in order to attract the tens of thousands
of radical, independent voters.
V. The trends irithin the Americnn Labor Party.
Some within it agreed to this independent course only in order to get the maxi-
mum number of votes for Roosevelt. Others believe in some sort of realigning of
political parties (as expressed in the recent national conference of the League),
as, for instancfj, the breaking away of the lil)erals fi'om the Republican Party,
the extreme conservatives from the Democratic Party, and a realigning of forces
within the present capitalist parties around the so-called liberalism of Roosevelt.
On the other hand there are forces within it that really ai'c striving for a labor
party as a permanent organization. They stand for a Labor Party in principle.
They are quite a factor in New York City.
VI. Common ground hetioeen us and the American Labor Party.
(a) On the issue of defeating Landon and arch reaction at all costs we agree.
(1)) On the trend in the organization for a permanent Labor Party and labor's
independent political action — we agree.
(c) On their intention to run local candidates as candidates of the American
Labor Party — this is a good step forward as far as policy is concerned.
These po.sitive aspects of the American Labor Party are of the greatest impor-
tance to us. Properly developed it gives us a means of carrying through the
major political tasks now facing us — the forging of a united people's front against
reaction and war, and the defeat of the Landon-Liberty League forces. This we
can achieve by being within the American Labor Party, infiuencing its program
and activities and strengthening those other forces within the American Labor
I'arty moving in the direction of a completely independent and permanently estab-
lished labor party.
They, of course, make as a condition for affiliation or support to the American
Labor Party the acceptance of their complete program which is in the first
instance the support of Roosevelt and Lehman. We do not agree with this part
of their progi-am. Our position has not changed since the national convention.
UN-AMERICAN rKOrAGA>DA ACTIVITIIiIS 8769
VII. Our attitude toicard the American Labor I'artti.
We realize that we are not able to deternilne the exact, pure course for the
(lovi'loinnenl of a Labor Party in America, but that there will be all kinds of
developments in different localities. Since wo have here in New York, in the
American Labor Party a movement representing about one quarter million or-
ganized trade-union workers moviiifi towards independent political action, we
cannot remain neutral or in opposition, but have to work with it and become
part of it. This we can do by urging every trade-union that we can influence to
afliliate to the American Labor Party ou their conditions. By being inside this
movement we will :
(a) Strengthen those forces that are closest to our position as regards defeating
Landon at all costs.
(It) Strengthen the tendency within the American Labor Party making for a
permanent I^abor I'arty — independent workers' political action.
(c) Influence as much as we can the number of local candidates to be selected,
their programs and the types of candidate to be selected.
It is with this in mind that our fractions in the Trade Union Committee for a
Labor Paity and in the Peoiile's Committee for a Labor Party were instructed
to influence these organizatitms to negotiate for afliliation to the American Labor
Party.
Several prominent progressive trade-union leaders of the Trade Union Com-
mittee for a Labor Party, whose organization, upon advice of the Committee, have
affiliated with the American Labor Party, have already been granted places on
the city executive committee of the American Labor Party. So also with leaders
of several left-wing unions. The American Labor Party has already granted
alTiliation to several Labor Party Clubs of the People's Committee and several
leaders of the People's Committee have been placed on the State Executive
Committee of the American Labor Party.
VIII. Pomtioti of Communists i>i trade unions affiliated to the American Labor
Party.
Every individual member of a trade-union or other organization is not bound
to its full program by affiliation to the American Labor Party. Outstanding
Comnumist leaders and members can, while urging affiliation to the American
Labor I'arty. state the positive aspects of the American Labor Party and that
he, as a Communist, does not agree with the support of the candidacy of
Roosevelt and Lehman and will vote for Browder and Ford.
IX. The position of the Socialist Party in regard to the American Labor Parly.
The Socialist Party opposes the American Labor Party. It declares that it
is not a "pure" Labor Party, that it endorses capitalist candidates, that it admits
iiorilabor elements. They insist that the Labor Party in America be born pure
and in a mold exactly to its liking. This sectarian policy has led to its greater
and greater isolation. Hillman, Dubinsky, and Potofsky have openly attacked
the Socialist Party. Whereas the Socialist Party used to say, "Well, a united
front with you (the C. P.) will jeopardize our relationship with the trade-
unions." today, because of our greater strength in the trade-unions and because
of their infaiitile sectarian policy, this question is reversed. We are trying in
every way possible to convince them of the incorrectness of tbeir position. While
our argiunents have not had much effect, great pressure is being brought to
liear tipon them in the trade-miions, especially by leaders, not only of the Amer-
ican Libor Party issue, but also on the method u.sed in the selection of Hochman,
Thomas' letter to Landon, and Thomas' sijeech to the Townsendites, and other
i.ssues. We' will have to fight with and lick them in the trade-unions on the
issue (tf the American Labor Party. (We have succeeded in doing this in every
instance in the many trade-unions that have already acted on this matter.)
X. 77(6 positiwi of the Lovestoneites.
They have made a complete about-face on the Labor Party issue and to prevent
isolation arc now supiiorting our policy as I'egards the American Labor Party.
XI. The position of the Old Gimrd.
The Old Guard accepts the whole program of the American Labor Party, includ-
ing Roosevelt. Due to the influence of the Forward, their influence in the Jewish
ti'a(l(>-unions as well as over a substantial portion of the radical voters, very seri-
ous consideration had to be given them by Hillman and others. Since the Old
8770
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Guard have this influence and is not considered a political party in the sense that
the Socialist and Communist Parties are, they have been accepted as an afliliate.
The Communist Party is not within the American Labor Party as a party, since
the American Labor Party would not accept party affiliation nor would the Party
affiliate under their conditio-ns. However, this question has never been taken up
by them and the American Labor Party has not taken an official position in this
regard.
XII. Full speed ahead with our Communist election campaign.
In order to continue being a factor and to strengthen our position in the Amer-
ican Labor Party we must show real strength as an independent force — a Mrge
KJommunitst Party vote. There is the danger that while trying to get all of the
left and progressive organizations to become part of the American Labor Party
that we will slacken our Communist Party election campaign. We are not with-
drawing Browder and Ford, nor our state ctindidates headed by Comrade Minor.
We must get much more than the fifty thousand votes for our gubernatorial can-
didates, needed to keep our party on the ballot. A strong independent Communist
Party election apparatus must be set up especially in those places where we sup-
port local united front or Labor Party candidates.
We must coordinate our Communist Party election campaign with our cam-
paign for the building of the American Labor Party and supiwrt of American
Labor Party or local united front tickets. In unions and other organizations
whether these are affiliated with the American Labor Party or not — Browder-
Ford clubs should be established wherever possible. The Communist Party elec-
tion apparatus must be strengthened everywhere, bringing our platform and candi-
dates to the masses.
Recruiting into our Party, the Daily and Sunday Worker, the sale of Com-
munist Party literature, collecting for the election fund, must go hand in hand
with a powerful Communist Party election campaign.
Exhibit "A"
Balance sheet as of December 31, 1937
ASSETS
Cash on Hand $1,403.86
Loans Receivable 68, 715.90
Furniture & Fixtures 8,556.33
Deferred Assets 151. T2
Total Assets 78, 827. 81
liabilitib:s
Loans and Accounts Payable 10,429.88
Surplus 68, 397. 93
Exhibit "B"
Ca.'ih statement
1937
1936
Paid
Received
Paid
Received
Dues - -
$77,116.67
4, 427. 97
5, 599. 84
67, 829. 29
59, 379. 59
35, 538. 54
$69, 446. 75
3 271 81
Initiations
Or?. Supplies & Buttons -
3 511 39
Donations — Organizations
59.617.83
Donations — Individuals
56, 753 42
International Solidarity (Sche. 1)
$35,083.61
$33, 645. 27
17,869.59
20, 035. 00
7, 270. 74
14, 456. 12
4, 734. 76
34 159 03
9th Convention _ .._ __
21, 353. 01
Wages. _
20, 106. 95
9. 722. 47
19, .345. 88
11,876.84
Organization Expense _
Labor Struggles Supported (Sche. 2)
Traveling-..
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Crt .s7i sfa tcmcn t — Continued
8771
1937
1936
Paid
Received
Paid
Received
Tolosraiih, Cables Communication
$8, 076. 33
2, 34,5. 48
2,041.08
4, 549. 70
4. 800. 00
10, 237. 34
.5.101.11
1, 775. 94
.5211. 23
?.56. 61
550. 00
.501.59
1, 756. 54
289. 95
1,008.22
31. 979. 92
34, 900. 83
3, 240. 80
21,. 506. 64
24, 750. 72
$7, 582. 79
2,028.15
2, 201. 46
4, 686. 86
4. 800. 00
10, 6.50. 42
3, 284. 32
Teloi)hone .
Postaco & Express
Ptationerv & Supplies - - -
Rent .--
Agitprop
Ploiiiim';
Recruitin'.z Drive
Oricoiifcrenco - - -
Taxes
Editorial Expenses
Trjiveliiiff \uditor
Paint iiie <fc Repairs
1936 f'loc. Campaign
152,017.91
1.690 04
25,548.14
30,915.98
3,081.81
25, 059. 28
17, 370. 72
3, 500. 00
1,024.30
$146,156.80
Misccllimeous
Subsidies — Districts (Sehe. 3)
Sub';idies — Organizations .- -.
Subsidies — Individuals
Partv nress
Loans Pavable
$8, 424. 72
1, 302. 03
TOTAL RECEIVED
258, 316. 62
394, 270. 04
TOTAL PAID
257, 729. 81
393, 453. 66
817.65'
817.05
67
Balance 12/31
1, 403. 86
259,133.67
259, 133. 67
394, 270. 71
394, 270. 71
Schedule 1
International solidarity
Paid
1937
1936
Paid
1937
1936
Anti-Nazi
$238. 08
1, 482. 69
India
$130 45
Brazil
$70. 00
400. 00
364. 26
5, 769. 45
93. 25
100. 00
380. 00
5.94
62.50
8, 195. 00
1, 200. 00
Italy
655. 00
Bulgaria
Mexico -
$6, 825. 15
200. 00
2, 225. 96
1, 0.54. 10
6.00
8, 132. 00
2, 033. 87
Canada -..
3, 358. 81
4,210.00
Nicaragua
Cuba
Chile
Philippines
Porto Rico .._
Portuguese
3, 868. 56
1 115 25
China
Costa Rics>
100.00
457.66
Delegations & Commu-
nications
Caribbean
7. 150 00
Ethiopian Aid
Germany _
Ireland
Total
"""'7,"645'00
1, 200. 00
35, 083. 61
33, 645. 27
SCHE3)ULE 2
Labor struggles supported
1937
1936
1937
1936
steel
$5, 600. 22
4, 094. 10
2, 786. 61
1,907.75
1, 858. 75
1, 085. 00
205.00
$3, 593. 54
1,01.3.44
781.00
1, 2.50. 00
2, 998. 55
95.00
Rubber
$85. 00
490. 00
13.5. 00
120.00
978. 45
$200 00
Auto. -
Oil
18 00
Textile
Mining
District No. 17
Miscellaneous
675 00
Railroad-.
462 54
Marine
1, 986. 82
Total
Metal..
19, 345. 88
13, 073. 89
8772
UN-AMERICAN PKOPAGANT)A ACTIVITIES
Schedule 3
Subsidies
District
1937
1936
District
1937
1936
1
$485.00
$484. 00
20
$1, 257. 09
1, 307. 00
749. 00
840. 25
1, 398. 80
1, 675. 94
372. 72
830. 00
720.00
1,404.91
1,349.03
809. 90
623. 00
1, 024. 60
93.75
245. 00
$842 43
2
21
1, 772. 38
3
f.21.00
G25. 00
2, 910. no
1, 510. 00
3fi4. 00
1, 210. 00
1, 30.=>. fill
87S. 00
299.94
115.75
143. 25
30. 00
1,001.85
221.81
2, 473. 89
1, 0.53. 50
116.00
123. 00
8.94
941.02
99.55
60. 19
1,501.31
317. 00
22 .
734.50
4
23
853. 89
r,
24
1,115.51
6 _-_
25
1,101.42
7 .
26
5.00
8 - ._
27
683. 00
9
28
367 95
10
29
1, 600. 05
11..
30 - .
435. 00
12
31
32
326 39
13. _
419. 57
14...
33
15
34
35
16
3, 05G. ni
3. 057. 64
443. 43
323. 65
1, 581. 42
3. 854. 22
589. 79
803. 34
17
Total
18 ..
31, 979. 92
25 548 14
19 -
Financial Statement, Communist Party of the U. S. A., January 1, 1938, to
March 31, 1940
Statement of income and expenses'^ for the 21-month period January 1, 1938,
to March 31, 19^0
Dues
Initiation
Supplies and Buttons
Mass Meetings and Affairs,
Collections and Donations-.
Defense Assessment
International Solidarity
Schools
Tenth Nr tl mal Conven-
tion (N t)
Natl. Ndninating Conv.
(Uth).
Wages.
Rent.-
Telegraph _
Telephone
Postage & Expressage
Stationery & Supplies
Traveling
National Committee Meet-
ings.
Party Building Congress, ._
Education Department &
Literature--.
Expenses
$14, 950. 40
110, 196. 72
5, 665. 40
300. 00
82, 259. 88
10, 800. 00
4, 712. 55
5, 972. 87
6, 027. 26
5, 718. 42
29, 164. 19
9, 696. 17
2, 926. 10
8, 943. 35
Income
5197, 176. 09
6, 340. 47
7, 797. 23
89, 326. 43
81,777.41
15,869.98
110, 623. 89
5, 506. 90
7, 352. 07
Legislative Department
Industrial Department
Organization Department-.
Other Departments
Party News Bulletin
Publicity & Press Service..
20th Aimiversary
Auditing
Social Security Taxes
Unemployment Insur.
Taxes
Repairs
Miscellaneous Expenses
Subsidies to Districts
Contributions
Total Received
Total Paid
Total General Income
Less Reserves for Defense
Fund and I. S
Net Income for the
Period
E.xpenses
$5, 486. 42
21,401,21
18, 967. 65
42, 235. 99
1, 954. 68
7,591.07
5, 934. 66
460. 00
1, 797. 50
2, 434. 54
752. 51
4, 172. 51
90, 233. 06
8, 000. 00
508, 756. 23
Income
$521,771.36
508, 756. 23
13, 015. 13
1, 346. 75
11,668.38
• We are advised that this financial report is merely a cover-up, and that the Communist Party of the
U. 8. A. actually had 60% more fmids that they did not account for.
Balance sheet as of March 31, 1940
ASSETS
Cash on Hand and in Bank $11,471.64
Loans Receivable 65, 995. 36
Furniture & Fixtures 9,259.95
Total Assets 86', 726. 95
liabilities
Loans Payable 2, 883. 56
Accts. Payable 2, 430. 33
. UX-AMEHICAN IMiurAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8773
Balance sheet as of March 31, lO.'fO — Continued
RESERVES
Defense Fund $1)19. 58
Intei-uatiuual Solidarity 427. 17
$1, 346. 75
Total Liabilities 6, 660. 6i
SURPLUS
Jan. 1, 1938 $68,397.93
Net Income 11, 668. 38
80, 066. 31
Total 86, 726. 95
CERTIFICATION
To the National Committee, Commnnist Party, U. 8. A.
I have examined the Balance Sheet of the Communist Party, U. S. A., as of
March 31, 1940, and the Statement of Income and Expenses for the 27 months
ended that date. In connection therewith, I examined or tested accounting
records of the Communist Party, U. S. A., and other supporting evidence, and
have reviewed the system of internal control and the accounting procedure of
your organization by methods and in the extent I deemed appropriate.
In my opinion the accompanying Balance Sheet and related Statement of
Income and Expenses fairly present the financial position of the Communist
Party, U. S. A., at March 30, 1940, and the results of their financial transactions
for the 27 mouths" iieriod ended that date.
Morris A. Greenbaum,
Certified Puhlic Accountant.
The Communist Party of Germany is being aided in its fight against the Hitler
regime in Germany by the Communist Party of the United States through a
contribution of $18,000. Five thf)usand dollars were contributed during the
past six month.s.
This was revealed in the voluntary financial statement, certified by a public
accountant, covering the period since the I'arty's last convention in 1938, made
in a report to the National Nominating Convention of the Communist Party
of the United States in session at the Royal Windsor, 89 W. 06th Street, New
York. The report was made in accordance with previous convention procedure.
The Communist Party of the United States, according to attached financial
report, had a total income of $."321,771.36 for the 27 months ended March 31,
1940. Assets of the Party as of tliat date were $86,726.95. Of this, .$11,471.64
was in cash in hand and in bank ; $6.j,99."'>.36 in loans receivable and $9,259.95 in
furniture and fixtures. Debts were $6,660.54.
The statement disclosed that 17 percent of the Party's income came from
mass meetings and affnir.s, and $197,176.09 from dues.
Among the expenses of the Party was $29,164.19 for traveling. On that
basis of an allowance of two cents a mile, this figure revealed that leading
Party members traveled 1,458,200 miles since the last convention in 1938.
The Communist Party of the United States contributed a total of $110,623.89
to Communist Parties of other countries, of which $18,000 went to the Com-
munist Party of Germany since May 1938.
The Convention voted to raise a fund of $140,000 to contribute to the Party's
national caniijaign, and $110,000 to aid the Daily Worker, official paper of the
Communist Party.
Workers School — Laboring Power
(From "Value, Price, and Profit" in "Essentials of Marx," Chapter 7)
Having now, as far as it could be done in such a cursoi-y manner, analyzed
the nature of value, of the value of any commodity whatever, we must turn our
attention to the .specific Value of Labor. And here, again, I must startle you by
a seeming paradox. All of you feel sure that what they daily sell is their
labor ; that, therefore, labor has a price, and that the price of a commodity
3774 UN-AMEKICAN I'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
being only the monetary expression of its value, there must certainly exist such
a thing as the value of labor in the common acceptance of the word. We have
seen that the amount of necessary hibor crystallized in a commodity con-
stitutes its value. Now, applying this notion of value, how could we define,
say, the value of a ten-hour working dayV How much labor is contained in
that day? Ten hours' labor. To say that the value of a ten-hour woi"kiug
day is equal to ten hours' labor, or the qunntity of labor contained in it,
would be a tautological and, moreover, a nonsensical expression. Of course,
having once found out the true but hidden sense of the expression "value of
labor, " we shall be able to interpret this ir-rational, and seemingly Impossible
application of value, in the same way that, having once made sure of the real
movement of the celestial bodies, we shall be able to explain their apparent
or merely phenomenal movements.
What the working man sells is not directly his Lahor, but liis Laboi'itig Power,
the temporary disposal of which he makes over to the capitalist. This is so
much the case that I do not know whether by the English laws, but certainly by
some Continental laws, the maximum time is fixed for which a man is allowed
to sell his laboring power. If allowed to do so for any indefinite period whatever,
slavery would be immediately restored. Such a sale, if it comprised his lifetime,
tor example, would make him at once the lifelong slave of his employer.
One of the oldest economists and most original philosophers of England —
Thomas Hobbes — has already, in his Leviathan, instinctively hit upon this iK)int
overlooked by all his successors. He says : "The value or worth of a man is, as
in all other things, his price: that is so much as would be given for the Use of
his Power."
Proceeding from this basis, we shall be able to determine the value of labor
as that of all other commodities.
But before doing so, we might ask, how does this sti'ange phenomenon arise,
that we find on the market a set of buyers, possessed of land, machinery, raw
material, and tihe means of subsistent-e, all of them, save laud in its crude state,
the products of labor, and on the otlier hand, a set of sellers who have nothing
to sell except their laboring power, their working arms and brains? That the
one set buys continually in order to make a profit and enrich themselves, while
the other set continually sells in order to earn their livelihood? The inquiry
into this question would be an inquiry into what the economists call "Previous
or Original Accumulation," but which ought to be called "Original Expropria-
tion." We should find that this so-called original accumulation means nothing
but a series of historical processes, resulting in a decomposition of the original
union existing between the laboring man and his instruments of labor. Such an
inquiry, however, lies beyond tlie pale of my present subject. The separation
between the man of labor and the instmments of labor once established, such
a state of things will maintain itself and reproduce itself upon a constantly
increasing scale, until a new and fundamental revolution in the mode of produc-
tion should again overtprn it, and restore the original union in a new historical
form.
What, then, is the Value of Laboring Power?
Like that of every other commodity, its value is determined by the quantity
of labor necessary to produce it. The laboring power of a man exists only ju his
living individuality. A certain mass of necessaries must be consumed by a man
to grow up and maintain his life. But the man, like the machine, will wear out,
and must be replaced by another man. Beside the mass of necessaries required
for his own maintenance, he wants another amount of necessaries to bring up a
certain quota of children that are to replace him on the labor market and to
perpetuate the race of laborers. Moreover, to develop his laboring power, and
acquire a given skill, another amount of values must be spent. For our purpose
it suffices to consider only average labor, the costs of whose education and
development are vanishing magnitudes. Still I must seize upon this occa.sion to
state that, as the costs of producing laboring powers of different quality differ,
so must differ the values of the laboring powers employed in different trades.
The cry for an equality of wages rests, therefore, upon a mistake, is an insane
wish never to be fulfilled. It is an offspring of that false and superficial radi-
calism that accepts premises and tries to evade conclusions. Upon the basis of
the wages system the value of laboring power is settled like that of every other
commodity ; and as different kinds of laboring power have different values, or
require different quantities of labor for their production, they must fetch dif-
ferent prices in the labor market. To clamor for equal or even equitable retribu-
UN-AJNIEUICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8775
tion on the basis of the wages ^system is the same as to clamor for freedom on
the basis of the slavery system. What you think just or equitable is out of the
question. The question is: What is necessary and unavoidable with a given
svstem of production?
" After what has been said, it will be seen that the valur of lahor'mg poircr is
detcrmimd by the value of the neeexmries required to i)roduce, develop, nuiintain,
and perpetuate the laboring power.
Workers School — Production of Surplus Value
(Value, Price and Profit, Ch. 8, Essentials of Marx)
Now suppose that the average amount of the daily necessaries of a laboring
man require six hours of average labor for their production. Suppose, more-
over, six hours of average labor to be also realized in a quantity of gold equal
to 3s. Then 3s. would be the price, or the monetary expression of the daily
value of that man's laboring power. If he worked daily six hours he would
daily produce a value sufficient to buy the average amount of his daily neces-
saries, or to maintain himself as a laboring man.
But our man is a wages laborer. He must, therefore, sell his laboring power to
a capitalist. If he sells it at 3s. daily, or 18s. weekly, he sells it at its value.
Suppose him to be a spinner. If he works six hours daily he will add to the
cotton a value of 3s. daily. This value, daily added by him, would be an exact
equivalent for the wages, or the price of his laboring ijower, received daily. But
in that case no surplus value or surplus produce whatever would go to the
capitalist. Here, then, we come to the rub.
In buying the laboring power of the workman, and paying its value, the capi-
talist, like every other purchaser, has acquired the right to consume or use the
commodity bought. You consume or use the laboring power of a man by making
him work, as you consume or use a machine by making it run. By buying the
daily or weekly value of the laboring power of the workman, the capitalist has,
therefore, acquired the right to use or make that laboring power work during
the whole day or week. The working day or the working week has, of course,
certain limits, but those we shall afterwards look more closely at.
For the present I want to turn your attention to one decisive point.
The value of the laboring power is determined by the quantity of labor neces-
sary to maintain or reproduce it, but the use of that laboring power is only
limited by the active energies and physical strength of the laborer. The daily
or weekly value of the laboring power is quite distinct from the daily or weekly
exercise of that power, the same as the food a horse wants and the time it can
carry the horseman are quite distinct. The quantity of labor by which the
value of the workman's laboring power is limited forms by no means a limit to
the quantity of labor which his laboring power is apt to perform. Take the
example of our spinner. We have seen that, to daily reproduce his laboring
power, he must daily reproduce a value of three shillings, which he will do by
working six hours daily. But this does not disable him from working ten or
twelve or more hours a day. But by paying the daily or weekly value of the
spinner's laboring power the capitalist has accpiired the right of using that labor-
ing power during the whole day or week. He will, therefore, make him work
say, daily, twelve hours. Over and above the six hours required to replace his
wages, or the value of his laboring power, he will, therefore, have to work six
other hours, which I shall call hours of surplus labor, which surplus labor will
realize itself in a surplus value and a surplus produce. If our spinner, for ex-
ample, by his daily labor of six hours, added three shillings, value to the
cotton, a value forming an exact equivalent to his wages, he will, in twelve
hours, add six shillings' value to the cottcm, a value forming an exact equivalent
to his wages, he will, in twelve hours, add six shillings' worth to the cotton, and
produce a proportional surplus of yarn. As he has sold his laboring power to
the capitalist, the whole value or produce created by him belongs to the capital-
ist, the owner pro tem. of his laboring ix)wer.
By advancing three shillings, the capitalist will, therefore, realize a value
of six sliillings, because advancing a value in which six hours of labor are
crystallized, he will receive in return a value of six shillings, because, ad-
vancing a value in which six hours of labor are crystallized, he will receive
g776 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
in return a value in which twelve liours of labor are crystallized. By repeat-
ing this same process daily, the capitalist will daily advance three shillings and
daily pocket six shillings, one half of which will go to pay wages anew, and
the other half of which will form surplus value, for which the capitalist pays
no equivalent. It is this sort of exchange between capital and labor upon
which capitalistic production, or the wages system, is founded, and which must
constantly result in reproducing the workingman as a workingman and the
capitalist as a capitalist.
The rate of surplus value, all other circumstances remaining the same, will
depend on the proportion between that part of the working day necessary to
reproduce the value of the laboring power and the surplus time or surplus
labor performed for the capitalist. It will, therefore, depend on the ratio in
which the working day is prolonged over and above that extent, by working
which the workingman would only reproduce the value of his laboring power,
or replace his wages.
Workers Scihooi. — Value ok Laboe
(Value, Price, and Profit, ch. 9, Essentials of Marx)
We must now return to the expression, "Value, or Price of Labor."
We have seen that, in fact, it is only the value of the laboring power, meas-
ured by the values of commodities necessary for its maintenance. But since
the workman receives his wages after his lal)or is pei-formed, and knows, more-
over, that what he actually gives to the capitalist is his labor, the value or
price of his laboring power necessarily appears to him as the price or value
of his labor itself. If the price of his laboring power is three shillings, in
which six hours of labor are realized, and if he works twelve hours, he neces-
sarily considers these three shillings as the value or price of twelve hours of
labor, although these twelve hours of labor realize themselves in a value of
six shillings. A double consequence flows from this.
Firstly, the value or price of the laboring power takes the semblance of
the price or value of labor itself, although, strictly speaking, value and price
of labor are senseless terms.
Secondly, although one part only of the workman's daily labor is paid,
while the other part is unpaid, and while the unpaid or surplus labor con-
stitutes exactly the fund out of which surplus value or profit is formed, it
seems as if the aggregate labor was paid labor.
This false appearance distinguishes wages labor from other historical
forms of labor. On the basis of the wages system even the unpaid labor seenis
to be paid labor. With the slave, on the contrary, even that part of his labor
which is paid appears to be unpaid. Of course, in order to work, the slave
must live, and one part of his working day goes to replace the value of his
own maintenance. But since no bargain is struck between him and his mas-
ter, and no acts of selling and buying are going on between the two parties,
all his labor seems to be given away for nothing.
Take, on the other hand, the peasant serf, such as he, I might say, until yester-
day existed in the whole East of Europe. This peasant worked, for example, three
days for himself on his own field or the field allotted to him, and the three subse-
quent days he performed compulsory and gratuitous labor on the estate of his
lord. Here, then, the paid and unpaid parts of labor were sensibly separated,
separated in time and space; and our Liberals overfiowed with moral indignation
at the preposterous notion of making a man work for nothing.
In point of fact, however, whether a man works three days of the week for
himself on his own field and three days for nothing on the estate of his lord, or
whether he works in the factory or the workshop six hours daily for himself and
six for his employer comes to the same, although in the latter case the paid and
unpaid portions of the labor are inseparably mixed up with each other, and the
nature of the whole transaction is completely masked by the intervention of a
contract and the pay received at the end of the week. The gratuitous labor
appears to be voluntarily given in the one instance, and to be compulsory in the
other. That makes all the difference.
In using the word "value of labor," I shall only use it as a popular slang term
for "value of laboring power."
UN-AMKKICAN PROl'.UJANJtA ACTIVITIES 8777
WoBKERS School — Profit Is Madk by Sixlixg a Commodity ai Its Valvk
(Value, Price aiid Profit, Ch. X, Essentials of Marx)
Suppose an average liour of laboi- to l)e realized in a value equal to >;ixpence, or
twelve avera.t;L' hours df lalior to be ivalized in six sliillings. Suppose, further, the
value of labor to be three shillings or tlie produce of six hours' lalior. If, then, iu
the raw material, machinery, and so forth, used up in a commodity, twenty-four
hours of average labor were realized, its value would amount to twelve shillings.
If. moreover, rhe workman employed by the capitalist added twelve hours of labor
to those means of production, these twelve hours would be realized in an additional
value of six shillings. The total value of the product would, therefore, amount to
thirty-six hours of realized labor, and be equal to eighteen shillings. But as the
value of labor, or the wages paid to the workman, would be three shillings only,
no equivalent would have been paid by the capitalist for the six hours of surplus
labor worked by the workman, and realized iu the value of the commodity. By
selling this commodity at its value for eighteen shillings, the capitalist would,
therefore, realize a value of three shillings, for wl'iich he had paid no equivalent.
These three shillings would constitute the surplus value or profit pocketed by him.
The capitalist would consequently realize the profit of three shillings, not by
selling his commodity at a pi-ice over and above its value, but by selling it at its
real value.
The value of a commodity is determined by the total quantity of labor con-
tained in it. But part of that quantity of labor is realized in a value, for
which no equivalent has been paid. Part of the labor contained in the com-
modity is paid labor; part is unpaid labor. By selling, therefore, the com-
modity at its value, that is, as the crystallization of the total quantity of labor
bestowed upon it, the capitalist must necessarily sell it at a profit. He sells
not only what has cost him an equivalent, but he sells also what has cost him
nothing', although it has cost his workman labor. The cost of the commodity
to the capitalist and its real cost are different things. I repeat, therefore, that
normal and average profits are made by selling commodities not above, but at
their real values.
Workers School — Political Economy-A
(Introductory Lecture by Instructor at the First Session)
WHAT political ECONOMY IS AND WHAT IT TEACHES
Before we go into a detailed study of the problems dealt with in Political
Economy it is necessary to explain what the scope of political economy is. It
is self-evident that a full understanding of the meaning of political economy
will be gotten only after some of the basic problems of political economy have
been studied. At present we shall deal with the subject only in a general way.
PRODUCTIVE FORCES AND PRODUCTIVE RELATIONS IN SOCIETY
The basis of every society including tlie capitalist society is the production
of the means of existence. The productive process is a social process.
"The individual and isolated hunter and fisher, who forms the starting point
with Ricardo and Smith, belongs to the insipid illusions of the eighteenth ceu-
^j.y * * * Production by isolated individuals out.side of society — something
which might happen as an exception to a civilized man who by accident got
into the wilderness and already dynamically possessed within himself the forces
of society — is as great an absurdity as the idea of development of language
without individuals living together and talking to one another." — Karl Marx—
"A Ojntributi(m to the Critique of Political Economy," Introduction.
Thus Marx emphasized that materi;il production, the basis in every historical
epoch, is social production. It constitutes the basis for human existence and for
social life in all epochs of history.
However, the conditions under which production takes place are not the
same in all historical epochs. The character of production in one epoch differs
from that of another epoch.
gyyg UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
"From the bow and arrow, from the stone knife and the exceptional and
occasional trading intercourse of the barbarian to the steam engine with its
thousands of horse power, to the mechanical weaving machine, to the railway
and the Bank of England is a tremendous leap"— "Anti Duehring" D. 176).
The technique in the particular epoch indicates the level of the development
of those means and instruments of production with which man consciously acts
upon the external world. The economic activities of men in every epoch are
based upon the specific level of the development of technique and culture, i. e.,
on the productive forces in society. The productive forces include the means
and instruments of production as well as human labor power in a given society.
The level of the development of productive forces reflects the degree of the
development reached by society in its struggle with nature. The development
of the productive forces in society constitutes the basis of the develooment of
that society.
The character of production I'elations, the character of those relations among
human beings which are formed in the process of social production, depends on
the level of development of the productive forces.
"In the social production which men carry on," says Marx, "they enter into
definite relations that are indispensable and independent of their will ; these
relations of production correspond to a definite stage of development of their
material power of production. The sum total of these relations of production
constitutes the economic structure of society — the real foundation on which rise
legal and political .superstructures and to which correspond definite forms of
social consciousness." — Karl Marx, Critique of Political Economy — Author's
Preface.
Hence, the productive forces do not represent something immutable, frozen.
Together with the development of the productive forces there takes place a
change in the sum total of the production relations, or, in other words, in the
economic structure of society.
The study of the productive forces of society, the study of how human labor,
with the aid of various means of production, acts on the external world in order
to obtain the necessary material welfare for society, belongs to the domain of
technical science. The subject of political economy is not the technique of the
economic process but the sum total of all the production relations formed among
men in the process of production.
As we shall see later, not all the production relations are the subject of political
economy, but production relations of a specific type.
All economic structures, all types of economy, can be reduced to two basic
categories : organized and unorganized.
Of the organized types of economy we have: the primitive communal tribe,
the feudal manor, and also the future communist society.
Of the unorganized types of economy — we have — the exchange economy (simply
commodity and the capitalist economy).
In the following paragraphs we shall make a brief observation of both types
of economics.
PRODUCTION RELATIONS IN AN ORGANIZED TYPE OF ECONOMY
If we take the primitive commune we find there the following characteristic
features : First of all there is the common ownership of the means of production,
the production and distribution of products in common. Social production and
distribution are carried on according to a conscious definite plan. Here we have
an organized human group on a collective basis where the functions of each
member are definitely regulated. The commune under the leadership of the
organizer or the patriarch determines the extent of its production, a.s for
example, the amount of food, clothing, implements, etc., and organizes common
labor in accordance with the needs of the commune. Every member of the
commune fulfills a certain .social function; one ploughs, the other hunts, the
third care for the cattle, etc. In such society exchange, buying and selling bias
no place. Therefore in political economy such type of society is known as a
NATiTBAT. economv. If exchange of certain articles takes place in this society, it
is as a rule accidental and occurs not within the commune but between two
separate communes. Only later, exchange begins to penetrate into the commune
Itself, when the forces of production reach a higher stage of development ; this
causes disintegration of the natural character of the economy and together with
it the breaking up of the commune itself.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8779
The future Coiumuuist society will be an organized economy with a definite
planned production and distribution. It must be understood that there will be
a colossal difference between the future Communist society and the primitive
comnumes, since the future Communist society will be a highly organized, com-
plex structure with a very high d(>gree of the development of the productive
forces.
Already in the Soviet Union we find features of the future Communist society.
The present economy in the Soviet Union is a transition economy between cap-
italism and ciimnmnism. In the Soviet Union private ownership and control of
the means of production has been abolished almost completely. The prototypes
of tlie fiiture planning organs are the Covernment Planning Connnissiou, the
Central Statistical Bureau, and the Supreme Council of Economy. With the aid
of these institutions the working class in the Soviet Union, through its govern-
ment, regulates production and distribution, takes account of the productive
forces, the means of production and the labor power, distributes them in ac-
cordance with the needs of the basic industries, and carries on its economy on a
definite planned basis (First and Second Five Year Plans).
It is obvious that this is only a beginning; that it is, so to speak, the first
phase of the construction of conununism; this is a phase where there are still
present private commodity producers, where there are still renuiants of even
natural economy, where all elements of capitalist economy in. the city and village
have not been destroyed, where there is still a sharp struggle going on between
the Socialist forces and capitalist elements. Through the successful completion
of the First Five Year Phiii the Socialist forces have had a teremendous victory
over the capitalist elements and thus the hegemony of the working class and its
planned economy have been definitely consolidated in the Soviet Union. With
the introduction of the Second Five Year Plan begins the stage of Socialism, the
period of a classless society.
The organized types of economy are not the object of stiidy in political econ-
omy. The production relations in such society are quite clear and obvious to
everyone. It is, luiwever, entirely different with the unorganized type of econ-
omy. Here production relations are very much complicated ; this will be the
object of our study.
JOSCHANGE ECONOMY — SIMPLE COMMODITY AND CAPTPAU.ST ECONOMY
Exchange economy includes the simple connnodity economy as well as the
capitalist economy. In order to clarify the basic features of the exchange econ-
omy we shall abstract ourselves from the special features typical of the capitalist
mod<> of production (capitalist exploitation, wage labor, etc. ) and concentrate our
attention, for the time being, on simple commodity production, the study of
which will aid us in understanding the characteristics of the more developed,
complex commodity economy — the capitalist economy.
What are then the features of simple connnodity economy? First, in simple
connnodity economy, in contradistinction to the primitive communes and the
future connnunist society, there exists private individual ownership of the means
of production and of the products of labor. Here the means of production and
laltor iK)wer are not yet separated one from the other, as is the case in the
cajiitalist .society, and they do not stand in opposition to each other. The pro-
ducer, flu? owner of the means of production, produces articles not for his
personal u.se, but for sale, all products necessary for himself he obtains on the
market, where he purchases them from other producers.
Secondly, in such a .society there exists already a more or less developed social
division of labor between the individual connnodity producers. In the organ-
ized natural economy the members of the society own the means of production
in connuon, they produce and distribute the products of their labor in common;
in a simple commodity economy the situation is entirely different. Each pro-
ducer ])ro(iuces a definite kind of product.
In each individual enterprise, in a shop or in agricultural economy, where
products are produced for the market, tliere exists organized technical divi-
sion of labor, according to a definite plan. But a general economy plan in
such .society does not exist; there is absent a social organ which could con-
sciously and systematically regulate production and distribution. Here every
commodity producer produces on his own risk. In such society none of the
producers knows beforehand what the market requires, how much of one or
the other commodity is required, what quality, in what manner, etc.
8780 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Consequeutly, in such a society Anarchy of Production dominates. This
anarchy of production is the consequence of private ownership of the means
of production and of the unorganized, spontaneous social division of laboi*.
The special features of the division of labor in an organized and unorgan-
ized economy are characterized by Marx as follows : "In the primitive Indian
community there is social division of labor, but the products do not become
commodities. Or, to take an example nearer home, in every factory the labor
Is divided according to a system, but this division is not brought about by
the operatives mutually exchanging their individual products. Only such
products can become commodities with regard to each other, as a result from
different kinds of labor, each kind being carried on independently and for
the account of private individuals." — (Marx, Capital, Vol. I, page 49, Kerr ed.).
In an organized society the labor activities of its members are regulated
in a conscious planned manner, while in an unorganized society, in a com-
modity economy, such regulating is accomplished by exchange, by the market.
Here each producer comes into contact wnth the other only through the market,
through the exchange of the products of their labor— through the commodities.
Productive relations between men in a commodity society are not estab-
lished directly, as is the case in an organized society or in an individual plant
(factory, mill, etc.) they are formed spontaneously, indirectly through the
medium of things, commodities.
"In order that these objects may enter into relation with each other as
commodities, the guardians of the commodities must enter into relation one
with another as persons whose wills reside in these objects, and must behave
in such a way that neither appropriates the commodity of the other, nor
parts with his own, except by means of an act performed with mutual con-
sent."— (Marx, Capital, Vol. I, page 5^6, Kerr ed.)
It is necessiiry to note that simple commodity economy in its pure form
did not exist historically. It existed within other forms of society (for
example — feudalism). Even at the present time we have remnants of the
precapitalist elements in the persons of the artisans, handicraftsmen who pro-
duce articles for the market with their own tools.
It is understood that the economic role they play in society is very much
subordinated to the capitalist relations in a capitalist society and to the social-
ist relations in the Soviet Union.
Simple commodity economy, i. e., the economy of simple independent com-
modity producers, appears as the simplest and general type of exchange econ-
omy. In its historical development it disintegrates the relations of the natural
economy, and in its turn, under the influence of the development of the
productive forces, becomes gradually more complex and is transformed into
capitalist economy.
At one pole there is formed a comparatively small group increasing its economic
power, concentrating in its hands more and more of the instruments and means of
production, thus becoming transformed into capitalists using wage labor; at the
other pole we find the basic mass of producers, who in the process of the develop-
ment of exchange become gradually ruined, are separated from the basic means of
production and are transformed into wage laborers, who own nothing but their
labor power which they sell to the owners of the means of production — to the
capitalists.
The owners of the means of production and the owners of the labor power stand
in opposition to each other as two hostile classes ; the capitalist class and the pro-
letarian class. The exploitation of wage labor by capital is the most outstanding
characteristic of the capitalist society.
Exploitation of labor existed also in the precapitalist epochs, for example in
feudalism and in the slave system, but the exploitation was clear and obvious to
everyone. It is different with the capitalist exploitation. Apparently, it seems
(and this is supported by bourgeois economists), that wages are payment for
labor and not for labor power as we shall see later. But if the worker receives
payment for his labor, if he works, let us say, ten hours a day and receives a pay-
ment equivalent to the value created by his labor, the possibility tV)r exploitation
disappears. On the surface these relations between the capitalist and the worker
appear as the movem(>nt of things, as the exchange of the commodity labor power
for a definite sum of money. But in order to discover the real relations under the
external wrapping, it is necessary to arm oneself with the Marxian theory.
IX-A.MEKICAN I'UOL'AGANDA ACTIVITIES 8781
PROOnCTIOX DELATION IN CAPITALIST SOCIETY AS THK DIRECT OBJECT OF STTJUY OF
POLITTCAL ECONOMY
As we stated above, in a commodity economy production relations are not estab-
lislied directly; tliey are formed Indirectly through the medium of things — com-
modities. The individual conmiodity iirediicers^ are not connected with each other
directly. Each one carries on production independently, at his own risk. The
connecting link between the producers is established in the process of exchange of
the products of their labor. Thus, the production relations in a commodity econ-
omy are hidden behind the movement of the commodities on the market.
The prdbleni of pdlitical economy is to expose the production relations, to clarify
the laws governing the capitalist economy. We, therefore, can dt fiae political
economy as tlie science of Production Relations in the Capitalist Society.
Bourgeois political economy regards the capitalist society as something eternal
and immutable. It considers the commodity form of the product, value, money,
etc., as natural qualities of the thing rather than the result and expression of
sju'citic social relations of a commodity economy. Capital, for example, is looked
upon not as a social relation peculiar to a definite economic form of society, but as
something which is independent of the character of the socio-economic system.
Thus, bourgeois political economy defines capital as the means of production. But
if capital is nothing else but the means of production, it follows, therefore, that
capital (the capitalist system, capitalist exploitation) was and will be forever,
and that things cannot be otherwise.
Marxian political economy, on the other hand, exposes the real substance of the
capitalist system, uncovers its inherent contradictions and points to its historically
transitional character. In imcovering the laws of the origin, development, and
the downfall of capitalism, political economy gives to the working class a mighty
weapon in its struggle for the destruction of the capitalist system of society.
CONTROL QVESTIONS
1. What are the distinguishing characteristics of an organized economy? How
are production and distribution organized in such a society?
2. Why does political economy study only the commodity-capitalist economy?
3. Discuss the differences between the simple commodity economy and the
capitalist economy.
4. What are the characteristic features of the capitalist economy?
5. Why does not political economy study the production relations in an
organized economy?
6. What is the significance of political economy for the class struggle of the
Ijroletariat?
7. What is political economy?
Workers School — Political Economy A
FIRST session — INTRODUCTORY COMMODITY
1. How do we produce the things we live on (bread, meat, milk, sugar,
coffee, clothing, shoes, light, fuel, rooms)?
2. Why is production always a social process?
(Consider production by primitive tribes — under slavery, feudalism, serf-
dom— in colonial times, at present^for colonial times use attached readings ;
compare production of pair of shoes by farmer's family, of skins, of cattle,
killed and tanned by themselves, by itinerant journeyman, neighborhood
cobbler, shoe factory.)
3. What are Production Forces — object of labor, labor power, means of pro-
duction? Explain their interdependence and nmtual effect of changes of one
upon another. Give some idea of pi-esent productive forces of the United
States; U. S. S. R. Improved land, area of harvested crops, natural resources,
forest reserves, gainfully employed population, number of wage earners in
manufacture and mines, number of farmers and farm laborers, mechanical
horsex)ower, electric power installations. (Commerce Yearbook, 1932, V. 1, pp.
30, 31, 36, 37, 132, 214, 306, 325.) (Economic Handbook of the Soviet Union,
pp. 11, 1-12, 145.)
4. What are production relationships f
3732 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
What is your relationship to the forces of production, object of labor, labor
power, means of production? What is the relationship of your employer to
the forces of production? Is there any difference?
5. Does the difference in the relationship (of yourself, your employers, etc.)
to the forces of production affect the way and the share you get of the things
we live on? (Discuss the census of Mfrs. Commerce Yearbook, V. 1, p. 41.)
6. Compare production relationship under present capitalist mode of pro-
duction, in primitive tribe, under slavery, serfdom, etc.
7. What is Political Economy?
8. Why do the farmers produce more agricultural products than they con-
sume? What value has that surplus to them? (Discuss attached table on
agricultural and farmers' income in the United States.)
9. What is use value, and what is exchange value? Is there any exchange
value that is not also use value? Is there any use value that is not also
exchange value?
10. What is a commodity?
Discuss contradictory nature of commodity. (Discuss attached readings on
conditions.)
READINGS
Marxist Study Course in Political Economy, Lesson 1, p. 1&-32.
Value and Labor, material mimeographed by Workers School, p. 1-15.
Lenin, The Teaching.s of Karl Marx, p. 18-20. Attached readings.
Workers' School — Re^amngs for Political Economy A — Fikst Session
USE VALUE AND EXCHANGE VALUE ; FORMS OF VALUE; RELATIVE AND EQUIVALENT l-XyRM
OF VALUE ; EXTENDED FORM OF VALUE ; UNIVtiRSAL FORM OF VALUE ; MONEY FORM OF
VALUE
Source: Manufacture for Sale 1775 — by the author of American Husbandry,
Period 1775.
"Nothing is more diflScult than to discover the amount of their manufactures
for sale. * * *
"That the manufactures for sale are not so great as some have imagined, may
be conceived from the vast number of inhabitants, who in all probability work
entirely for themselves, in a country where the minute division of landed property
iy so great as in the most populated of the northern colonies, and in a climate that
will yield little valuable, it is impossible that the people should be able to purchase
manufactures; poor countrymen in England do it because all their income is paid
tiiem in money, whatever may be their work: but in America day laborer.s are
rarely to be found, except in the neighboi'hood f)f great towns ; on the contrary,
the man who in England would be a laborer, would there be a little freeholder,
who, probably raising for many years but little for sale, i^^ forced to work up
his wool in his family, his leather, and his flax, after which, the rest of his
consumption is scare worth mentioning. The number of people in the northern
colonies who come under this denomination is very great.
"This is productive of distressing incidents to small farmers who supply the
markets with ijrovisions; for whatever they have to sell, whether trivial or
important, they receive in return nothing but an order on store for the value in
goods; and as the wants of such persons are few, they seldom know what articles
to take. The storekeepers turn these circumstances to advantage, and fre-
quently force on the customer a thing f(n- which he has no use ; or what is worse,
when the order is trifling, tell him to sit d()wn at the door and drink the amount,
if he chooses. As this is often complied with, a market day is mostly a scene
of drunkenness and contention, fraud, cunning, and duplicity : storekeepers deny-
ing the possession of a good article till he fails in imposing a bad one. I have
known a person to ask for a pair of shoes and receive for answer tliat there were
no shoes in the store, but some capital gin that could be reconmiended to him.
I have heard another ask for a rifle gun, and be answered that there were no
rifles but that he could be accommodated with the best Dut<'h looking glasses
and German flutes in the western country. Another was directed l\v his wife to
bring her a warming pan, smoothing irons, and scrul)bing brushes ; but these w(>re
denietl. and a wooden cuckoo-clock which tlie children would not take a week
to demolish was sent home in their stead. I could not help smiling at these
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8783
Jibsiirclitit'S, tlunisli I bt'liove tlioy deserve the name of imi)ositioiis, till an ineideut
reduced me to the condition of those whom I have just describeil.
"I rode an excellent horse to the head of the waters, and linding him of no
further use from my havinji to take a boat there, I proposed selling him to the
best bidder. I was offered in exchange for him salt, flour, hogs, land, casi
iron salt pans, Indian corn whiskey, in short, everything but what I wanted,
which was money. The highest offer made was cast-iron salt pans to the amount
of a hundred and tliirty dollars. I asked the proprietor of this heavy commodity
how much cash he would allow me instead of such an incumbrance; his answer
was, without any shame or hesitation, forty dollars at most. I preferred the
jmns, though they are to be exchanged again for glass bottles at Pittsburgh,
tobacco or hemp in Kentucky, and dollars in New Orleans. These various com-
}nercial processes may occupy twelve months ; nor am I then certain of the
amount, unless I give 30% to secure it.
"The words buy and .'^ell are nearly unknown here ; in business nothing is
heard but the word trade. Will you trade your watch, your gun, pistols, horses
means, 'will you exchange your A\'atch, gun for corn, pigs, cattle, Indian meal,
etc. But you must anticipate all this from the absence of money.' " Prepared by
Seminar in IVIarxian Economics.
Workers School — Political Economy A — Rkadings for First Session
USE VALUE AND EXCHANGE VALUE. COMMODITY. FAMILY (DOMESTIC) PRODUCTION:
FACTORY OR CAPITALIST PRODUCTION
Source: Industrial and Commercial Correspondence of Hamilton, p. 3-7.
Data : Letter from Col. John Chester, re Manufacturers in Connecticut. Period
1790.
"The manufactures of this State naturally present themselves to our view
under the following heads : Those carried on in families merely for the consump-
tion of those families; those carried on in like manner for the purpose of barter
or sale; and those carried on by tradesmen, single persons, or companies for
supplying the wants of others, or for the general purposes of merchandise, or
commerce.
"Those which come under the first description, and which are purely domestic,
are the most exclusive and important, there being scarcely a family in the
state either so rich or so poor as not to be concerned therein. These domestic
Manufacturers are of Linen, of Cotton, and of Wool, in their various modifications.
Out of those raw materials are made an abundance of Linen, Cotton, Woolen,
and Worsted Hose, worn by all ranks of people, so as greatly to lessen the
Importation, particularly of the more ordinary kinds, notwithstanding our
increased population and wealth has greatly increased the consumption of those
articles. Next to those branches may be reckoned those of tow cloth, coarse linens,
linen and cotton for shirting and sheeting, table linen, checked and striped linens,
and bedticks; also coarse fustians and jeans for men's wear, and white dimity
of the women. The manufacture of Wool is of various kinds of cloth for servants
and the ordinary wear of the whole class of our fanners and most of those
who follow any of the usual trades or laborious occupations * * *_
"There is manufacturtd also large parcels of almost all the denominations
aforerecited for the purpose of barter, or sale to the merchants, who export them
out of the Stat(» — within these few years attempts have been made to extend our
manufactures, and for imv)roving the fabrics. This has been attempted either
by single persons or by companies, with various success. Of this description is
the Linen manufacture estalilislied at New Ilavcn. from whence large parcels of
coarse LiiKMis have been shipp<'d to the Southern States and to the West Indies.
The same kind of manufacttire has more recentl.v been established at Middletown
and New I.,ondon. the Stock at all those places b(Mng raised by subscription, and
managed by an agent for the l)enetit of the adventurers.
"The company at Hartford (Woolen .Manufacture-MN) had expended so much
of their small cajjital in Imildings, implements, etc. that they found themselves
under the necessity of applying to Government for aid. The Legislature, being
sensible of the imiK)rtance of encouraging this infant establishment, granted them
a Lfjttery to raise l.(X10. io enable them to procure a more complete set of ma-
chinery, and for extending their business. This Lottery will probably net them
62626 — 41— vol. 14 40
8784
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
three thousand dollars and enable them to make a further trial in this laudable
attempt to establish so valuable a manufacture. The event is yet, however, very
pr(;blematical. Those persons concerned in setting up new manufactures have
every obstacle to surmount which can arise from clashing interests, or ancient
prejudices, as well as from the smallness of our capitals, the scarcity of materials
and workmen, and the consequent high prices of both. In this respect the
obstacles which are opposed to the woolen manufacture are the greatest. * * *
"In addition to the foregoing list should be sub.ioined the manufacture in wood,
in iron, and in household furniture and steel carriages of all kinds are made in
plenty and pretty good style — and considerable is exported to the Southern States
and to the West Indies. The manufactures of iron are various and extensive,
and exceed our demand for home consumption, except Cutlery and some part of
the tools used by tradesmen. Our manufactures of Leather are considerable, so
as to make a full supply of shoes and boots, saddles, bridles, horse harness, etc.
even for exportation. We made also stuff and silk shoes nearly sufficient for
the consumption of the State.
LABOR PRODUCTIVITY
"As to the quantum of all these manufactures, either those used amongst our-
selves, or those exported, or the value of them in money, I dare not hazard an
opinion, not having the details on which to make the calculation, or ground such
an opinion, but considering the number of our laborious and active citizens, and
our modes of living, it cannot otherways than be considerable, and it is yearly
increasing. The manufactures carried on in our families may be calculated to
increase the value of the products, beyond that of the raw materials as three to
one — those established in factories^such as the woolen manufacture at Hartford,
not less than four to one, or even five to one."
Prepared by Seminar in Marxian Economics.
WoRicERs School — Political Economy A — Readings for First Session
Production forces and production relationship — Manufacturing industries,
United States, 1919-29
1919
1929
Percent of
increase
(+) or de-
crease (— )
Number of Establishments -
214.383
250, 571
210. 959
133. 210
-1.6
Persons Engaged in Manufacturing Industries:
Proprietors & Firm Members
-46.8
Salaried Officers & Employees . . -.
1,438,219
9, 000, 059
« 1. 567. 138
8, 838, 743
Wage Earners (Average per year)
-1.8
Horse Power (Rated Cap. of Power Equipment)
29, 327, 669
42,931,061
+46.4
Wages - .
10,461.786,869
2, 880, 808. 375
11,620,97,3.254
'■4,195,501,362
+7.1
Salaries''
-45.6
Total Wages and Salaries
13, 342, 655. 244
' 15, 816, 474, 646
+18.5
Cost of Materials, Containers, Energy -
37, 232, 702, 309
'62,041,795.316
24, 809. 092. 926
38, 549. 579, 732
' 70, 434, 863, 443
31,885,283.711
Value of Product .. .
+13.5
Value added to Mfre .
+28.5
Appropriated by Proprietors-
Value added minus salaries and wages
11.466.437.682
16, 068, 809. 065
+40.1
Share of proprietors . - -
46. 2%
42. 2%
11.6%
50. 4%
36. 4%
13. 2%
+9.1
Share of wage earners
-13.7
Share of salaried officers and employees . _ ,. .
+13.8
(«) Includes 208,303 employees of central administrative offices who were included
in the figures in 1019.
( 6) Includes 6()0,437,3ol of salaries of employees of central administrative offices that
was included in total of 1919.
(c) Included duplications due to the use of the products of some industries and ma-
terials by others.
(d) Salaries include a great deal of concealed returns of proprietors and firm members.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8785
Workers School — Political Economy A — Re^vdings i'or First Sfcssion
Important items on the position of agricuUure in the United States
[Millions of dollars]
Total
value of all
agricultural
products
Value of
products
consumed
at home
Value of
products
for the
market
Taxes
paid
Interest
Rent
Cash
income
after all
expenses
1919 ---
16. 935
13,5()6
8,927
9,944
11,041
11,337
11.9r.8
11,480
11,616
11.741
11,911
9.347
6,920
5.240
6.200
2. 500E
2,0OOE
1,2()0E
1, 500 E
1,5,'^0
1,697
1,882
1.822
1.744
1,742
1,777
1,523
1,100
800E
l.OOOE
14. 435
11.566
7.727
8.444
9.491
9,640
10, 086
9.658
9,872
9.999
10. 134
7.824
5. 820
4; 440E
5,200E
380
452
633
678
718
727
729
738
754
766
777
777
700
550E
550E
590
672
685
700
700
712
705
699
690
684
681
671
600
550 E
6OOE
N. A.
N. A.
N. A.
N. A.
N. A.
927
1,005
999
1.034
1.068
1.110
911
692
600 E
600E
7,974
1920 --
5.579
1921
3.204
1922
1923
3,77s
4,392
1924 -
4, 263
1925
4, 335
1926
4. 047
1927 .
4.276
1928
4.024
1929
4, 222
1930
2. 521
1931
1,591
1932
1,015E
1933
1,850E
Source: Bureau of Agricultural Economics of U. S.; Crops and Markets, Nov. 1932.
Financial result for average farm in the United States 1930
Total receipts $1, 549
Cash outlay :
Hired labor •_ $304
Livestock bought 102
Feed bought 184
Fertilizer 55
Seed 34
Machinery and tools G2
Taxes on farm property 1S3
Interest paid 196
Miscellaneous expenses 167
1,287
Profit $262
Quantity and value of wheat produced during two periods
Quantity (millions of bushels) _
Value on the farm (millions of dollars),
Price per bushel received (cents per bushel)
1931
892
$396
$0.44
Workers School — Political Economy A
LESSON II
USE— VALUE :
A. List some u.se-values.
B. How are these produced today?
C. How were use-values produced in a simple commodity economy?
D. Does the manufacturer go into business in order to produce things
for use?
E. Is the worker interested in the use-value of the things he helps produce?
F. What is the aim of production today?
g786 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
EXCHANGE-VALUE :
A. What is the relationship of the owuer of a use-value to this use-value?
B. What is the relationship of the ovpner of an exchange-value to this
exchange value?
C. What results from the latter relationship?
D. Show how these commoditj' relationships are "economic relations."
USE-VALUE AND VALUE :
A. What is the difference between a pair of shoes as a use-value and this
pair of shoes as an exchauge-value?
B. What determines this difference?
1. What makes possible the exchange of a certain quantity of a
commodity for a certain quantity of another commodity?
COMMODITY :
A. What is the two-fold nature of a commodity ?
LABOR :
A. What kind of labor creates value?
B. What kind of labor creates use-value?
C. Can these two kinds of labor be kept mechanically separated?
D. What is the relationship between socially necessary labor, production of
labor and value?
1. If the socially necessary labor is diminished as a result of an
increase in the productivity of labor, what happens to value?
Now you can tell why the boss class is not a productive force.
Do so.
Show from the above analysis the importance to the working
class of a study of political economy.
p. 2:
Workers School — Political Economy' A
ASSIGNMENT FOR LESSON III
1. What are the characteristics of a simple commodity economy?
a. productive forces.
b. productive relations.
c. nature of exchange.
d. diiRculties.
2. What would the presence of money have accomplished?
p. 3:
1. What were the characteristics of the economic structure of the U. S. in 1790?
2. What are the characteristics of a capitalist commodity economy?
a. productive forces.
b. productive relations.
c. nature of exchange.
3. What conditions are necessary for the development of capitalism?
p. 6:
1. Contrast production for exchange.
a. in simple commodity economy.
b. in cap. commodity economy.
WoKKEBS School — Political Economy A
LESSON IV. — FORMS OF VALUE
Fall Term 1933
Questions for W. W. Martin's Class:
1. What is meant by the form of value?
2. What form of value is found in the first historical stage of commodity
exchange?
3. Analysis of this form of value :
a. What is the relative form of value?
b. What is the equivalent form of value?
4. What is the total or extended form of value?
5. Show how this represents a higher stage of historical development.
6. What is the general or univei-sal form of value?
UN-AMKRICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8787
7. Show how this repipsents a still higher stage of historical development.
8. What is the money form of value?
9. Show how this is the highest stage of historical development in capitalism?
10. WJiy is money a connuodityV
11. Why is it that the previous metals have come to function as money?
12. What are the functions of money?
1 HE FETISHISM OP COMMODITIES
Jteview:
1. What renders all human products exchangeable? (abstract labor).
2. Does this "element" reside in the commodities as a physical property
of the commodities? (No.)
3. Where does it reside? (In the activity of the producers.)
4. Is this "element" an individual possession or a social relationship?
(latter)
New Lesson:
1. When exchange occurs, what seems to happen between commodities?
2. What seems to be the character of commodities?
3. What is a fetish? (The production of human mind in concrete shape.)
4. Is there any similarity between a commodity as it seems to behave and
a fetish?
5. What is meant by "fetishism of commodities"?
6. Show how this is not true for the period of Feudalism.
a. What kind of relations between persons exist under feudalism?
b. Contrast feudal relations between persons and capitalist relations
between persons.
7. Why do bourgeois economist seek to uphold the notion underlying the
fetishism of commodities?
8. What is the significance of the Marxist exposure of this notion?
Workers School — Political Economy A
LESSON VI — money (CONTINUED)
W. W. Martin's Class
Fall Term, 1933
1. Explain the following:
a. measure of value
b. standard of price
c. means of circulation
d. hoarding
e. means of payment
2. What is meant by the Gold Standard?
What is meant by going off the G. S.?
3. What is meant by Inflation?
What is the effect of Inflation on the working class?
4. Prove that the Roosevelt program is an inflationary one causing increas-
ing misery to the working class.
5. What are the functions of money in the Soviet Union?
6. Should the working class demand in its struggle against inflation?
7. Bourgeois Theories of Money :
a. Keynes; Fisher
b. Social Credit.
Readings ;
Lapi<lus : pp. 48-63.
Capital: pp. 106-162.
Workers School — Political Economy
LESSON vn CAPITAL
W. W. Martin's Class
Fall Term 1933
Questions :
1. What is meant by the circulation of commodities?
2. Show how the circulation of commodities contains the distinction between
money as money and money as capital.
8788 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
3. What are the differences betweeu money in transaction C-M-C and money
in transaction M-C-M.
4. In actuality, however, the circulation of money as capital completes itself
in what result?
5. What is capital?
What is a capitalist?
6. Show how the bourgeois concept that "surplus value" is a result of the
process of circulation is wrong.
7. What is the source of Surplus Value?
8. What conditions are necessary and fundamental to the emergence of
capital ?
9. Is the barbarian owning and using a simple instrument a capitalist?
10. Does "capital" as defined above exist in the U. S. S. R.?
Workers School — Political Economy A
LESSON Vin — LuXBOR, LABOR POWER, WAGES, CAPITAL. SURPLUS VALUE
W. W. Martin's Class
Fall Term 1933
1. What is the distinction between labor and labor jwwer?
2. What is the monetary return to the worker called?
3. What is the distinction between wages and the value created by the workers?
4. Why is the receipt by the worker of the value created by him an impossi-
bility under capitalism?
5. What is the bourgeois view of wages?
6. Show how American Federation of Labor and Socialist support of the N. R.
A. is support of the bourgeois view of wages and henc-e of capitalism.
7. Is it correct to say that "labor is the source of all wealth"? (No. 2, pp. SO-
BS, Critique of G. Prog., sect. 1.)
8. What is the twofold result of the twofold character of labor in the labor
process?
9. What is meant by —
a. Constant capital.
b. Variable capital.
10. Show how labor power, and not the means of production, is the source of
surplus value.
11. Show how capital is a bourgeois social relation of production.
12. What is meant by the fetishism of capital?
Readings:
Marxist Study Course in Political Economy — No. 2.
Capital, Vol. I, pp. 169-208 (Paul Trans.).
Workers School- — Political Economy A
LESSON IX. rath OF SURPLUS VALUE
W. W. Martin's Class.
Fall Term, 1933.
1. What is the value of the product at the end of the labor process?
2. What is the source of "s"?
3. In determining rate of surplus value, why do we determine the ratio
8
between s and v thus : ^ ?
Why not the ratio between s and (c plus v) ?
4. Why is it correct to determine the rate of surplus value by the ratio
between surplus labor to necessary labor?
5. Why is the rate of surplus value considered as the degree of exploitation
of the worker?
6. What is meant by the surplus product?
7. What is meant by the working day?
8. What is the amount of surplus value equal to?
10. What is the result of an increase in the variable capital?
UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8789
11. When Iddkod npoii from the iioint of view of tlie labor process, what is
the r«'latioii between iiistrmnents of pro(hietioii and worker in tlie
process of prodiutionV
12. When looked npon from the point of view of capital, what is the relation
between instruments of production and the worker in the pi'ocess of
production?
13. Wliat is meant by absolute surplus value?
14. What is meant by relative surplus value?
15. What is the eff(x-t on relative surplus value of an increase in the pro-
ductivity of labor?
10. Why is tlie capitalist class anxious to increase the productivity of labor?
Eca dings:
No. 3 of the Marxist Study Course in Political Economy.
Workers School — Value and Labor
(Essentials of Marx. Chap. 6)
At first sight it would seem that the value of a commodity is a thing quite rela-
tive and not to be settled without considering one commodity in its relations to
all other commodities. In fact, in speaking of the value, the value in exchange
of a commodity, we mean the proportional quantities in which it exchanges with
all other commodities. But then arises the question : How are the proportions
in which commodities exchange with each other regulated?
We know from experience that these proportions vary infinitely. Taking one
single commodity, wheat, for instance, we shall find that a quarter of wheat
exchanges in almost countless variations of proportion with different commodi-
ties. Yet, its value remaining always the same, whether expressed in silk, gold,
or any other commodity, it must be something distinct from, and independent of,
these different rates of exchange with different articles. It mu-^t be possible to
express in a very different form these various equations with various commodities.
Besides, if I say a quarter of wheat exchanges with iron in a certain proportion,
or the value of a quarter of wheat is expressed in a certain amount of iron, I say
that the vulue of wheat and its equivalent in iron are equal to some third thing,
which is neither wheat nor iron, because I suppose them to express the same
magnitude in two different shapes. Either of them, the wheat or the iron, mirst,
therefore, independently of the other, be reducible to tliis third thing which is
tlieir common measure.
To elucidate this point I .shall recur to a very simple geometrical illustration.
In comparing the areas of triangles of all possible forms and magnitudes, or com-
paring triangles with rectangles, or any other rectilinear figure, how do we pro-
ceed? We reduce the area of any triangle whatever to an expression quite differ-
ent from its visible form. Having found from the nature of the triangle that its
area is equal to half the product of its base by its height, we can then compare
the different values of all sorts of triangles, and of all rectilinear figures whatever,
because all of them may be resolved into a certain number of triangles.
The same mode of procedure must obtain with the values of commodities. We
must be able to reduce all of them to an expression common to all, distinguishing
them oidy by tlie proportions in which they contain that identical measure.
As the exchangeable values of commodities are only social functions of those
things, and have nothing at all to do with the natural qualities, we must first ask.
What is the common social substance of all commodities? It is labor. To produce
a commodity a certain amount of labor must be bestowed upon it or worked up
in it. And I say not only labor but social labor. A man who produces an article
for his own immediate use, to consume it himself, creates a product, but not a
commodity. As a self-sustaining producer he has nothing to do with society. But
to produce a commodity a man must not only produce an article satisfying some
social want but his labor itself nmst fcn-m part and parcel of the total sum of labor
expended by society. It must l)(> subordinate to the Division of Labor within
Society. It is nothing witlnrnt th(> other divisions of labor and on its part is
required to integrate them.
If we consider commodities as values, we consider tliem exclusively under the
single aspect of realized, fixed, or, if you like, crystallized social labor. In this
respect they can differ only by representing greater or smaller quantities of labor,
§790 UN-AMERICAN PROrAGANDA ACTIVITIES
as, for example, a greater amount of labor may be worked up in a silken handker-
chief than in a brick. But how does one measure quantities of labor?
By the time the labor lasts, in measuring the labor by the hour, the day, etc.
Of course, to apply this measure, all sorts of labor are reduced to average or
simple labor as their unit.
We arrive, therefore, at this conclusion. A commodity has a value because
it is a cviistallization of social labor. The greatness of its value, or its relative
value, depends upon the greater or less amount of that social substance contained
in it; that is to say, on the relative mass of labor necessary for its production.
The relative values of commodities are therefore, determined by the respective
quantities or amounts of labor, worked up, realized, fixed in them. The correla-
tive quantities of commodities which can be produced in the same time of labor
are equal. Or the value of one commodity is to the value of another commodity
as the quantity of labor fixed in tlie one is to the quantity of labor fixed in the
other.
I suspect that many of you will ask, does then, indeed, there exist such a
vast, or any difference whatever, between determining the values of commodities
by wages, and determining them by the relative quantities of labor necessary for
their production? You must, however, be aware that the reward for labor, and
quantity of labor, are quite disparate things. Suppose, for example,. equal quan-
tities of labor to be fixed in one quarter of wheat and one ounce of gold. I
resort to the example because it was used by Benjamin Franklin in his first Essay
pul)lished in 1721, and entitled, A Modest Enquiry into the Nature and Necessity
of a Paper Currency, where he, one of the first, hit upon the true nature of value.
Well, we suppose then, that one quarter of wheat and one ounce of gold are
equal values or equivalents, because they are crystallizations of equal amounts
of average labor, of so many days' or so many weeks' labor respectively fixed in
them. In thus determining the relative values of gold and corn, do we refer in
any way whatever to the wages of the agricultural laborer and the miner? Not
a bit. We leave it quite indeterminate how their day's or their week's labor was
paid or even whether wages labor was employed at all. If it was, wages may
have been very unequal.
The laborer whose labor is realized in the quarter of wheat may receive two
bushels only, and the laborer employed in mining may receive one-half of the
ounce of gold. Or, supposing their wages to be equal, they may deviate in all
possible proportions from the values of the commodities produced by them. They
may amount to one-half, one-third, one-fourth, one-fifth, or any other proportional
part of the one-quarter of corn or the one ounce of gold. Their wages can, of
course, not exceed, not be more than the values of the commodities they pro-
duced, but they can be less in every possible degree. Their wages will be limited
by the values of the products, but the values of their products will not be limited
by the wages. And above all, the values, the relative values of corn and gold,
for example, will have been settled without any regard whatever to the value
of the labor employed, that is to say, to wages. To determine the values of
commodities by the relative quantities of labor fixed in them, is, therefore, a
thing quite ditferent from the tautological method of determining the values of
commodities by the value of labor, or by wages. This point, however, will be fur-
ther elucidated in the progress of our inquiry.
In calculating the exchangeable value of a commodity we must add to the
quantity of labor last employed the quantity of labor previously worked up in
the raw material of the commodity, and the labor bestowed on the implements,
tools, machinery, and buildings, with which such labor is assisted. For example,
the value of a certain amount of cotton yarn is the crystallization of the quan-
tity of labor added to the cotton during the spinning process, the quantity of
labor previously realized in the cotton itself, the quantity of labor realized in the
coal, oil, and other auxiliary substances used, the quantity of labor fixed in the
steam engine, the spindles, the factory building, and so forth. Instruments of
production properly so-called, such as tools, machinery, buildings, serve again and
again for a longer or shorter period during repeated processes of production. If
they were used up at once, like the raw material, their whole value would at once
be transferred to the commodities they assist in producing. But as a spindle, for
example, is but gradually used up, an average calculation is made, based upon
the average time it lasts, and its averge waste or wear and tear during a certain
period, say a day. In this way we calculate how much of the value of the spindle
is transferred to the yarn daily spun, and how much therefore, of the total
amount of labor realized in a pound of yarn, for example is due to the quantity
UN-AMEUICAN l'K01'A(JANDA ACTIVITIES 8791
of labor previously realized in the spindle. For our present purpose it is not
necessary to dwell any longer upon tliis point.
It might seem that if the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity
of labor bestowed upon its production, the lazier a man, or the clumsier a man,
the more valuable his commodity, because the greater the time of labor required
for linishing the commodity. This, however, would be a sad mistake. You will
i-ecoliect that I used the word "social labor," and many points are involved in this
qualilicatiou of "social." In saying that the value of a commodity is determined
by the quantity of hibor worked up or crystallized in it, we mvan the quantitij of
lahor necessary for its production in a gincn state of society, under certain social
avcraye co)iditions of production, irith a yiroi social arerayc intensity, and
average skill of the labor employed. When, in England, the power loom came to
compete with tlie hand loom, only one-half the former time of labor was wanted
to convert a given amount of yarn into a yard of cotton or cloth. The poor hand
loom weaver now worked seventeen or eighteen hours daily, instead of the nine or
ten hours he had worked before. Still the product of twenty hours of his labor
represented now only ten social hours of labor, or ten hours of labor socially
necessary for the conversion of a certain amount of yarn into textile stuffs. His
product of twenty hours had, therefore, no more value than his former product of
ten hours.
If, then, the quantity of socially necessary labor realized in commodities regu-
lates their exchangeable values, every increase in the quantity of labor wanted
for the production of a commodity must augment its value, as every diminution
must lower it.
If the respective quantities of labor necessary for the production of the respec-
tive commodities remained constant, their relative values also would be constant.
But such is not the case. The quantity of labor necessary for the production of
a commodity changes continuously with the changes in the productive powers of
the labor employed. The greater the productive powers of labor, the more produce
is finished in a given time of labor ; and the smaller the productive powers of
labor, the less produce is finished in the same time. If, for example, in the
progress of population it should become necessary to cultivate less fertile soils,
the same amount of produce would be only attainable by a greater amount of
labor spent, and the value of agricultural produce would consequently rise. On
the other hand, if, with the modern means of production, a single spinner converts
into yarn, during one working day, many thousand times the amount of cotton
which he could have spun during the same time with the spinning wheel, it is
evident that every single pound of cotton will absorb many thousand times less
of spinning labor than it did before, and, consequently, the value added by
spinning to every single pound of cotton will be a thousand times less than before.
The value of yarn will sink accordingly.
Apart from the different natural energies and acquired working abilities of
different peoples, the productive powers of labor must principally depend :
Firstly, upon the natural conditions of labor, such as fertility of soil, mines,
and so forth.
Secondly, upon the progi-essive improvement of the social powers of labor,
such as are derived from production on a grand scale, concentration of capi-
tal and combination of labor, snlidivision of labor, machinery, improved meth-
ods, appliance of chemical and other natural agencies, shortening of time and
space by means of communication and tran.«port, and every other contrivance
by which science presses natural agencies into the service of labor, and by
which the social or cooperative character of labor is developed. The greater
the productive powers of laboi-, the less labor is bestowed upon a given
amount of produce; hence the smaller the value of the produce. The smaller
the productive powers of labor, the more labor is bestowed upon the same
amount of produce; hence the greater its value. As a general law we may,
therefore, set it down that:
The values of eommodUies are directly as the times of lahor employed in
their prodnetion, and are inversely as the productive ponnrs of the labor
employed.
Having till now only spoken of value, I shall add a few words about price,
which is a peculiar form assumed by value.
Price, taken by itself, is nothing but the monetary expression of value. The
values of all. commodities of this country, for example, are expressed in gold
prices, while on the Continent they are mainly expressed in silver prices. The
value of gold or silver, like that of all other commodities, is regulated by the
3792 UN-AMEKICAN PROl'AGANDA ACTIVITIES
quantity of labor necessary for getting them. You exchange a certain amount
of your national products, in which a certain amount of your national labor
is crystallized, for the produce of the gold and silver producing countries, in
M^hich a certain quantity of their labor is crystallized. It is in this way, in
fact by barter, that you learn to express in gold and silver the values of all
conmiodities, that is the respective quantities of labor bestowed upon them.
Looking somewhat closer into the monetary expression of value, or what comes
to the same, the conversion of value into price, you will find that it is a
commodities, that is, the respective quantities of labor bestowed upon them,
homogeneous form, or by which you express Ihera as quantities of equal
social labor. So far as it is but the monetary expression of value, price lias
been called natural price by Adam Smith, prix necessaire by the French
physiocrats.
What then is the relation between vah;e and market prices, or between natural
prices and market prices? You all know that the market price is the same for all
commodities of the same kind, however, the conditions of production may differ
for the individual producers. The mai-ket price expresses only the average amount
of social labor necessary, under the avei'age conditions of production, to supply
the market with a certain mass of a certain article. It is calculated upon the
whole lot of a commodity of a certain description.
So far the market price of a commodity coincides with its A-'alue. On the other
hand, the oscillations of market prices, rising now over, sinking now under the
value or natural pi-ice, depend upon the fluctuations of supply and demand. The
deviations of mai'ket prices from values are continual, but as Adam Smith says:
•'The natural price is the central price to which the prices of commodities are
continually gravitating. Different accidents may sometimes keep them suspended
a good deal aI)ove it, ixud sometimes force them down even somewliat below it.
But whatever may be the obstacles which hinder them from settling, in this center
of repose and continuance they are constantly tending towards it."
I cannot now sift this matter. It suffices to say that if supply and demand
equilibrate each other, the market prices of commodities will correspond with their
natural prices, that is to say with their values, as determined by the respective
quantities of labor required for their production. But supply and demand must
constantly tend to etpulibrate each other, although they do so only by compen-
sating one fluctuation by another, a rise by a fall, and vice versa. If instead of
considering only the daily fluctuation you analyze the movement of market prices
for longer periods, as Mr. Tooke, for example, has done in liis History of Prices,
you will flnd that the fluctuations of market prices, their deviatitms from values,
their ups and downs, paralyze and compensate each other; so that apart from
the effect of moncipolies and some other modifications I must now pass by, all
de.scriptions of conmiodities are, on the average, sold at their respective values or
natural prices. The average periods during which the fluctuation?: of market
prices compensate e'ach other are different for diffeivnt kinds of commodities,
because with one kind it is easier to adapt supply to demand than with the other.
If then, speaking broadly, and embracing somewhat longer periods, all descrip-
tions of commodities sell at their respective values, it is nonsense to suppose
that proHt, not in individual cases, but that the constant and usual profits of
different trades spring from the prices of commodities, or selling them at a
price over and above their valiie. Tlie absurdity of this notion becomes evident
if it is generalized. What a man could constantly win as a seller he would as
constantly lose as a purchaser. It would not do to say that there are men who
are buyers without being sellers, or consumers without being producers. What
these people pay to the producers, they must first get from them for nothing.
If a man first takes your money and afterwai'ds retunis that money in buying
your commodities, you will never enrich yourselves by selling commodities too
dear to that ssime man. This sort of transaction might diminish a loss, but
would never help in realizing a profit.
To c.rplaiv. therefore, the general nature of profits, you must start from the
theorem, that, on an ai^erage, commodities are sold at their real values, and that
profits are derived from selling them at their values — that is, in proportion to the
quantity of labor realized in them. If you cannot explain profit upon this sup-
position, you cannot explain it at all. This seems paradox and contrary to every-
day observation. It is al.so paradox that the earth moves round the sun, and
that water consists of two highly inflammable gases. Scientific truth is alwsiys
paradox, if judged by every-day experience, which catches only the delusive
appearance of things.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVFiTES 8793
An Outline on Countei{-Re\oi.ittionaby Trotzkyism — For Members of
Educational Cokps
Prepared by : National Education Dept. C. C.
Reference Readings :
1. Olgin. "Trotzkyism."
2. Vyshinsky, "Trotzkyism in the Service of Fascism."
3. Lang, "Trotzkyism and Fascism."
4. Daily Worker, Nov. 'iS i^ 14. Watcli editorials and articles.
What ix Trotzkyismf
Trotzkyism is a complex of anti-Marxist, anti-Leninist theories, including:
(1) The theory of i>ermanent revolution.
(2) Tlie theory of the impossibility of building Socialism in one country.
Organizationally, Trotzkyism meant:
(1) The denial of the necessity of iron discipline within the Party.
(2) Tlie freedom of factional groupings within the Party.
Practically, Trotzkyism meant :
(1) Unprincipled formation of blocs against the Party.
(2) Attacks against the leadership of the Party.
(3) Refusal to obey decisions.
(4) Utilization of enemies of the Proletariat for the struggle against
the Party and its leadership.
Tfw theory of permanent revolution.
Trotzky's theory of "permanent revolution" was developed in 1905 in oppo-
sition to Lenin's theory of the growing over of the bourgeois-democratic revolu-
tion into the proletarian revolution. It involved the character of the relation-
ship of the proletariat and peasantry (petty-bourgeois masses). The theory
of "permanent revolution" advanced by Trotzky states :
(1) The peasantry as a whole constitute one reactionary mass.
(2) The proletariat will have to fight against the broad masses of the
peasantry.
(.3) This fight can only be successful if the victorious proletariat of other
countries come to the rescue.
(4) If this support is not given, the rule of the proletariat in one country
is hopeless.
This theory is linked up with Trotzky's.
Theory of the impossibility of building socialism in one country.
This theory was developed in opposition to Lenin's formulation in 1915 of
the possibility of Socialism in one country as a result of the unevenness of de-
velopment of capitalism in the epoch of imperialism.
Trotzky's theory denies :
(1) The law of the uneven development of imperialism discovered by Lenin.
(2) That the proletariat of any country, even in a highly industrialized
one, cannot maintain its rule unless the victorious proletariat of
Europe comes to its rescue.
Trotzky's theory aflSrms :
(1) That the proletariat of one country can seize power but cannot hold it.
(2) That the pre-condition for building Socialism in one country is the
.seizure of power in the majority of countries.
(3) That if this does not take place, the capitalist elements within one
country will inevitably defeat all attempts to establish Socialism.
(4) That, therefore, withont the world revolution proletarian rule in one
country must perish.
Basic characteristics of these theories.
(1) Over-estimation of the strength of capitalism and under-estimatiou
of the forces of revolution.
(2) Conceptions of the development of the proletarian revolution viewing:
(a) all epochs of capllalism as identical.
(b) the world revolution as a simultaneous process.
(c) the pea.santry as a whole as a capitalistic class.
3794 UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVmES
<3) Denial of the peasantry as an ally of the proletariat.
(4) Denial tliat the proletariat has the strength to lead the peasantry onto
the path of Socialism.
From these theories flow :
The Trotzkyist conception of the dictatorship of the proletariat.
This Consists in :
(1) Viewing the dictatorship of the proletariat as the dictatorship of the
Party over the proletariat.
(2) "Viewing the dictatorship of the proletariat as a power which enters •into
hostile collision with the broad masses of the peasantry."
This means :
(1) Rejection of the Marxist-Leninist conception that "the emancipation of
the working class can only be achieved by the working class itself"
and the bourgeois substitution of the idea that the masses do not
count — power is not class power, but the power of leaders.
(2) Rejection of the Leninist conception that "the supreme principle of the
dictatorship is the preservation of the alliance between the proletariat
and the peasantry in order thta the proletariat may continue to retain
the leading rule and state power."
The practice of Trotzkyism> — a survey by Lenin in 1910.
"Trotzky represents his own personal vacillations, and nothing more. In 1903
he was a Menshevik ; he abandoned Menshevism in 1904, returned to the Menshe-
viks in 1905 and merely flaunted ultra-revolutionary phrases; in 1906 he left
them again ; at the end of 1906 he advocated electoral agreements with the
Cadets (i. e., was virtually once more with the Mensheviks) ; and in the spring of
1907, at the London Congress, he said he differed from Rosa Luxemburg on 'indi-
vidual shades of ideas rather than on political tendencies.' Trotzky one day
plagiarizes the ideological stock-in-trade of one faction ; the next day he plagiar-
izes that of another, and, therefore, declares himself to be standing over both
factions.
"Let the readers now judge for themselves whether Trotzky represents a 'gen-
eral Party' or a 'general anti-Party' trend in Russian Social-Democracy." — Lenin :
Selected Works, Volume 3, pp. 517.
This quotation shows that Lenin condemns Ti'otzky for :
(1) Unprincipled political behavior.
(2) Phrase-mongering.
(3) Egotism.
(4) Deceit.
Trotzkyism. in action against Leninism to 1917.
1905. Against Lenin's slogan, "Revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat and
peasantry," Trotzky advances slogan. "Down with the Czar and up with a
Workers' government." This slogan ignored the peasantry and meant skipping
an important stage in the revolution. If it had been carried out in practice it
would have meant throwing the peasantry into the arms of the counterrevolution.
1910. While the Bolsheviks under Lenin were endeavoring to maintain Party
discipline and to carry through Its tasks which were opposed by the petty-bourgeois
currents within Russian Social-Democracy, Trotzky wanted to conciliate all fac-
tions on the basis, not of Bolshevism, but of Menshevism.
Said Lenin : "Trotzky's resolution * * * is drafted very 'cautiou.sly' and
lays claim to 'super-factional' fairness. But what is its meaning? The 'Bolshevik
leaders' are to blame for everything * * * this is (its) philosophy of his-
tory."—Lenin : Selected Works, Vol. 4, p. 3!).
1911. Trotzky intrigues with various factions to fight Lenin and the Party.
"Trotzky merely revealed the plan of the liquidators, whom he faithfully
serves * * * the termination of the struggle (by Lenin) against the liqui-
dators * * * full freedom to fight the Party." — Lenin : Selected Wot'ks, Vol. 4,
p. 106.
"Trotzky has been deceiving the workers in the most imprincipled manner by
assuring them that the obstacles to unity were principally (if not wholly) of an
organizational nature * * * j^j reality * * * in the forefront now is the
question of the entire program, the entire tactics, and the whole character of the
Party." — Lenin : Selected Works. Vol. 4, p. 95.
1912. Trotzky forms the infamous "August Bloc." A direct attack on the prin-
ciples of Bolshevism. All the groups in this bloc were luiited on one point —
UN-A.MERICAN PROPAGAiNDA ACTIVITIES §795
destruction ot the power of Lenin and the Bolshevik Party In the Russian labor
movement.
1913. Trotzky continues liis intrisues contacting everyone who might be of
service in the struggle against Leninism. "The whole structure of Leninism Is
at present based on lies and falsilication. and harbors the poisonous germs of its
own decomposition."— Trotzky to Cheidze, April 1, 1913.
1915-1917. Lenin advances revolutionary slogan — transforms imperialist war
into civil war. Trotzky attacks slogan, saying it is narrow and unsuited for mass
propaganda.
Loinn advances slogan — defeat your own bourgeoise. Trotzky assails Lenin,
stating: This slogan simply amounts to an inverted nationalism, or nationalism
with a minus sign.
Lenin says : "Break with the waverers and the conciliators." Trotzky : Lenin's
attitude is sectarian, a heritage of the past.
1917. Trotzky attacks Lenin as a dictator. "You do not know Ilyitch's (Lenin's)
regime. Illyitch brooks no thiidiing other than his own." — Trotzky to Melnit-
c?'anski — a letter.
Trotzkv joins the Bolshevik Party with reservations.
"The Bolsheviks have debolshevized themselves, and I cannot call myself a
Bolshevik. * * * The aceptance of Bolshevism cannot be demanded of us."
Summary of Tn>t::kijist action up 1o 1917.
(1) Continual attacks upon the Bolsheviks
(2) Unprincipled intrigue
(3) Attacks against the leadership, especially Lenin, who was accused of
being "the leader of the reactionary wing of our Party," "a party dis-
organizer," "a professional exploiter of every backward feature in the
Russian labor movement." Trotzky also called Lenin a demagogue
and liar, characterizing Lenin's Bolshevik statements as "Those hide-
ous wantonly demogogic lies of Lenin."
Trotzky during the Civil War.
Conflict with C. C. on plan of attack against Kolchak in summer of 1917 Trotzky
resigns. C. C. accepts resignation. Autumn 1919. Trotzky summoned from
southern front to attend meeting of C. C. Central Committee recalls Trotzky
from southern front on demand of military workers. Operations on southern
front and defeat of Denikin take place without the participation of Trotzky.
During this period Trotzky reveals bureaucratic handling of the Red Army.
The Brest-Litvosk Treaty.
Trotzky becomes panic-stricken when the revolution meets with difiiculties.
Tries to sabotage Lenin's proposal to sign the Brest-Litovsk Treaty which
would give the revolution a breathing spell to consolidate its forces. Ad-
vanced slogan : "Neither peace nor war." Due to this attitude of Trotzky
the treaty when finally signed contained more onerous provisions than had
originally been proposed by the German militarists.
Trotzky and Trotskyism during the liriuidnfion of war communism, 1920-1921.
Discussion on the Trade Union question. Trotzky advocates transforming
trade unions into state organs, naming its leaders from above. This idea was
later realized by Hitler and Mussolini. Lenin condemned Trotzky's bureau-
cratic standpoint, pointing out that trade unions must be democratically con-
trolled, and that the relationship of the Party to the trade unons is deter-
mined by persuasion not compulsion as advocated by Trotzky. "Trotzky's
mistake consists in forgetting Marxism, in a theoretically false eclectric defini-
tion of the relation of politics to economics." "Trade unions are not state
organs; they are schools of Commuinsm." Lenin 1921.
Trotzkyism condemTied hy 10th Party Congress.
Leinn demands a cessatifm of Trotzky's attempts to build a faction. Trotzky
is accused of an anarcho-syndicalist deviation by Lenin. The Congress called
for the immediate liquidation of all factionalism.
Trotzkyism in 1922.
Trotzky gathers together different oppositional groupings for an attack on
the Party leadership "which has brought the country to the verge of ruin."
Advocates colonial methods of exploitation of the peasantry.
3796 UN-AMERICAX PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Trotzlcy continues factional attacks upon the leadership.
The 13th Party Congress condemus Trotzkyism as a social-rtemocratic devia-
tion from Leninism.
Trotzky's desire for power leads Mm to attack the Party openly after the death
of Lenin — in the name of Leninism and Bolshevism:
From 1924 to 1927 Trotzlcy was engaged in a campaign of falsification and
slander against the Party.
(1) He tried to set the youth against "the old Bolsheviks." "The youth,"
he said, "is the barometer of the Party."
(2) He aecu.sed the Party of mining the country.
(3) He accused the Party of being agents of the kulaks.
(4) He systematically falsified the history of the October revolution
minimizing the role of Lenin and magnifying his own.
(5) He violated decisions of the Party, carrying his opposition to these
decisions to non-Pa rty masses.
(6) He developed the tactic of double-dealing, making declarations of
willingness to carry out the Party line and simultaneously organ-
izing cliques for sabotaging the Parti- linp
(7) He tried to instill a spirit of pessimism and hopelessness among the
masses who were called upon to proceed with the construction of
Socialism.
(8) He accused Stalin of all the things he had formerly accused Lenin
of.
(9) He developed an inordinate hatred of Stalin and the leadership of
the Party because the Party membership had rejected his theories
in favor of Leninism which was preserved and developed by Stalin.
(10) He organized secret printing presses with the aid of elements con-
nected with White Guardists.
(11) He and Dreitzer (one of the terrorists executed afrer the recent trial)
organized a counterrevolutionary demonstration against Soviet
Power in November 1927 together with Zinoviev.
Trotzky after expulsion from the Communist Party.
Main aim : to destroy the Communist International. Tactics :
(1) to spread confusion in the ranks of the working class;
(2) to hinder the defense of the Soviet Union:
(3) to supply information to the counter-revolurionai*y bourgeoise ;
(4) to oppose everything done by the C. I. and the Soviet Union;
(5) to inspire and organize hatred of Stalin and the leadership of the
Soviet Union ; and, from 1931 onwards, to organize terrorist groups
for the purpose of murdering the leaders of the proletariat ;
(6) to use for this purpose white guardists and the Nazi secret police;
(7) to boi-e from within by putting his agents into the Party by double-
dealing tried to deceive the Party aiid to prepare for terrorism
against its leaders.
Hotv Trotzkyism carried on its attacks in print.
On the first Five-Year Plan:
"Industry is racing toward a crisis * * * on account of the mon-
strously bureaucratic methods used in the construction of the plan." —
Trotzky, Militant, March 15, 1930.
On the Second Five-Year Plan:
"It is necessary to put off the second Five-Year Plan." — Trotzky, Militant,
Jan. 7, 1933.
"The bureaucratic leadership * * * which has been blinded by the
mirage of socialism in one country has brought national economy to the
brink of absolute chaos." — Trotzky, Militant, March 13, 1933.
On Stalin:
"Stalin's autocratic rule has erected nepotism, selfwill, profligacy, pillage,
and bribery into a system of administration." — Trotzkv, New Militant,
1936.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8797
Oh the new Sot'ict ConKtitiifion:
"To suiotluT the protest of the workers nsiainst the growing social in-
equality hy the weight of the more ha('l<war(l masses of tlie village — this is
tlie chief aim of the new constitution."— Trotsky, New Militamt, 1936.
Pollution of i^ocia1i.'<t Parfj/ bif Trotzl-i/isni.
Finding it inipossjlde to prevent the united front of Socialist and Communist
workei's, Trut/kyites enter the Socialist Party in VSMy in order
(1) To provide themselves with machinery for anti-Communist propaganda
(2) to destroy united front moves on the part of Socialist workers
(3) to slander tlu' People's Front in France and Spain to prevent the
formation of the Farmer-Laiior Party
(4) to mislead the Socialist youth onto the road of counter-revolution
(5) to .^lander the Soviet Fnion and its peace policy
(6) to indnence workers in trade unions under vSocialist control to re.iect
Communist proposals for uTuty
(7) to prevent Socialist workers from directing their main blow at the
liberty League-IIearst-Landon combination as the main forces driving
towards fascism in the U. S. A. This means ob.lective support of
fascism.
Trotsky justifies terrorism i)i the public jiress.
"Individual terror is * * * of the greatest siimptoinatic importance be-
cause it characterizes the sharpness of the antagonism between the bureaucracy
and the wide masses of the people, especially the younger people."
"Marxists, as is well known, have irreconcilably rejected and continue to reject
individual terror. But this has never prevented us from always siding with
A\'illiam 1>11 and not with the Austrian despot Gessler. — Trotsky, Neiv Militant,
Feb. 1, 1936.
The conclusion of Trot~kyisin — Fascist assassination.
Trotzky to Fritz David in Copenhagen, Nov. 1932:
"There is now no way out other than the violent removal of Stalin and
his followers. Terror against Stalin — that is the revolutionary task."
Trotzky to German-Ynrin :
"Stalin must be physically destroyed."
Smirnov, close friend of Trotzky. stated at the trial:
"I admit that I received through Gaven the directives from Trotzky con-
cerning terror. * * * '•
Goebbels to the press in Nazi Germany :
"You are to print nothing about the trial in ^Moscow which links Ti'otzky
to the Gestapo."
Lessons from the trial of the Trotzkyist assassins.
Trotzkyism always contained mechanistic and idealistic elements, revealed in
its underestimation of new material conditions, in a tendency to rely upon the
impulses of the will, in a tendency toward adventurism. As Lenin showed, any
deviation from dialectical materialism leads to reaction and darkness. The
idealogy of Trotzkyism coincides with the idealogy of fascism.
Trotzkyism in the course of its degeneration tr;iversed all forms of oppression
to Bolshevism, always adapting itself to the form of struggle carried on by the
bourgeoisie against the revolutionary Party. When the boui-geoisie utilized the
liberals in Russia. Trotzky attacked Bolshevism from the liberal stan<li)oint.
When the l)ourgeoisie used social-democracy, his attack was based on the stand-
point of the latter. And finally, when the bourgeoisie began to i-esort to fascism,
Trotzky utilized both the demogogy and the terror develojied by fascism.
Trotzkyism at the present time is the utilization of all the devices castigated by
I^enin — cai-ried to its lowest point, namely, deceit, hyprocrisy. slander, lies, dis-
ruption, double-dealing, and stool pigeoning.
Trotzkyism means MURDER OF COMMUNISTS LEADERSHIP AND AID TO
THE FASCIST WAR MAKERS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DESTROYING THE
SOVIET UNION AND DEFEATING THE PR(^LETARIAN REVOLUTION
EVERYWHERE.
gygg UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
What is to be done?
(1) Proletarian vigilance against all attempts to smuggle into the Party
anti-Leninist ideas.
(2) Proletarian vigilance against any attempt to weaken the discipline of
the Party.
(3) Proletarian vigilance against rumors, gossip, slander, cynical remarks
calculated to weaken the Party and its leadership.
(4) Proletarian vigilance against those who try to weaken the Party's
struggle against enemies outside the Party and against disguised
enemies who worm their way into the Party for the purpose of
weakening it.
(5) Every member of the Party must study the principles of Marxism-
Leninism in order to be equipped to fight against the enemies of
Party.
(6) Every Party member must ask himself with the utmost seriousness:
Have I carried out the tasks assigned me in the spirit of Bolshevism?
Have I done all in my power to strengthen the Party? Have I been
vigilant enough against the petty -bourgeois tendency towards loosening
of Party discipline?
No. 3
Tenth National Convention
discussion btjixetin
Issued by the Central Conmiittee, Communist Party, U. S. A.
Our Tasks in Developing Party Schooling
By Charles Krumbein
When we consider the situation in which our Party is operating, we can see
that personnel is decisive: On the world scene, the opposing poles of democracy
and fascism are in a life-and-death struggle, in which the part played by the
United States can be decisive. In our country we see on the one hand, the forces
of reaction consolidating, and fighting viciously against everything progressive
and against the democratic institutions which the American people have estab-
lished through struggle. On the other hand, the forces of progress and democ-
racy are rapidly mobilizing their strength to give combat to reaction through the
Democratic Front.
We can say without any boastfulness that our Party is playing an active role,
varying in degree, in every progressive nK)vement in the country. Full under-
standing and determined application of our mass policies in these forward move-
ments can be a very important factor in the tempo of their advancement. The
struggle to win more and more millions of the American people for the Demo-
cratic and People's Front, for our correct peace policy, to meet the needs and
aspirations of our people, confronts us with more complex tasks than ever before
in the history of our Party. Hence, not only is there greater need for special
training of leading forces to meet this situation, but education of our Party mem-
bers generally is one of our most important and serious problems.
Since our is^inth Convention, where the problem of personnel was made a cen-
tral question, some advances have been made towards its solution. Our Party
generally, and particularly our leading comrades, have become much more con-
scious of the need of a scientific and well-rounded personnel policy. What is
more, we have been doing something about it.
party schools
In this article we want to deal only with one phase of this problem— Party
Schools. With regard to this phase, it can be recorded that a much larger pro-
gram has been carried through than ever before. In the last year alone, the
Central Committee has organized and conducted a full-time school of 6 month.s'
duration with GO students; a school to train comrades in Negro problems, of 10
weeks' duration with 2o students ; two regional schools, one in the Northwest and
one in the South, of 8 and 6 weeks' duration. A number of State organizations
have given real serious attention to this phase of work, especially the New York,
California, Ohio. Illinois, and Texas State organizations. Other States have
also done something on this field or have adopted plans for Party schools. In
quite a number of States and localities, part-time schools were organized with
UN-AIMERICAN rUOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8799
considerable results. These achievements mark definite progress, but they are
only a beginning, since tiie needs are so great.
An important problem in connection witli training of personnel that has yet
to be solved, is schooling of those comrades who arc mass leaders and are unable
to find time for study. Our Party registration of January 1, 1938, has shown
that more than 5,000 members went through some kind of Tarty school, but these
include very few of the mass leaders. And it is precisely tlie.'^e comrades for
whom schooling in ^Marxism-Leninism is especially important, because they are
in contact with thousands of workers. Since tiiere is the need, we can tind the
way. Some methods can be suggested here. Have a group of them take a week
off and organiz3 a class of 8 or 9 days' duration, from Saturday to Sunday of
the following week. Or at least organize a group in the important centers "that
shall meet weekly on a Saturday or Sunday in a study circle, where current issues
can be discussed and given a M.irxist-Leninist interpretation. Of course, wher-
ever possible, these comrades should be tirst considerations for all our schools.
Our experiences in organizing and conducting Party schools are so fruitful and
varied that it is now possible for us to review our work to make definite improve-
ments, and thereby extend it and get still greater results. Some conclusions can
be drawn, although a full review of our Party school work of the past two years
must still be made.
FOE IMPKOVEU METHODS
First, we believe it will be necessary to revamp drastically the curricula of all
our schools. We must organize our curricula so that there is much greater inte-
gration of the theoretical subjects taught with the tasks and immediate political
objectives of our Party, in addition to integrating a number of the subjects. In
most of our schools we have had too nuich theory in the abstract.
A few illustrations will make this point clear. In our theoretical study of the
character and role of the State, it is necessary at the same time to bring in all the
lessons of American traditions and to interweave our whole concept of the Peo-
ple's and Democratic Front. Likewise in the same subject must be brought in
the role of the women. Negroes, youth, and national groups. Or again when we
take up Marxian economics and draw the lessons of the class forces in society, we
must bring in the role and program of monopoly capital in America which is the
spearhead of reaction, as well as the ipiestion of unemployment and how to meet
the problems of the unemployed. The concept of a theory as a guide to action
nuist be made to run throngh all subji'cts taught in our schools like a steel rod.
The second problem, requiring much more serious attention, is the selection of
students. While we can record considerable improvement in this respect, it is
still far from satisfactory. We have not yet fully grasped the import of Comrade
Browder's demand that we want for our schools precisely those comrades "who
cannot be spared."
Too often students are selected who have had no mass experience, with the result
that it is hard for them to relate theory to practice. Not sufiicient comrades rep-
resenting the young American type who have come into the Party through mass
struggle ai-e picked for the schools. All of us, from the Central Committee down
to the branch leaders, must continuously have our eyes open for prospective stu-
dents, listing them for schools and seeing to it that they are given some preliminary
training, that is, that they read some of our fundamental literature. If the com-
rade is picked, then he is already somewhat prepared. If not, the reading he has
done will stand him in good stead. This will stimulate self-study, so necessary
for all our members.
Last but not least, we must be nnicli more careful regarding health in the selec-
tion of students. We have had much bad experience in this regard. A comrade
in bad healtii is not able to give the neces.sary energy to his studies but he also
has an adverse eflfect on the rest of the student body.
Thirdly, it is necessary, especially for the leading comrades and the leading
committees of the Party, to make Party scliooliiig an integral part of all Party
work. Every Party organization sliotdd plan well ahead. National, regional, oV
State schools should not be considered as sufficient. Tlie need is so great that all
States, counties, sections, and large branches need to plan for and organize some
form of school or study class. Fidl-timc^ schools, even though a short duration,
can and sliould be organized Ity every State organization as well as by those
counties, cities, and sections that are in a po.sition to do so. District budgets
should provide for this important phase of work. The Center is in a position
to give help with ciu-ricula. bulletins, etc. A careful survey of our Party mem-
bersliip will show that we have comrades who, with a little preparation, can
teach in such schools.
62626 — 11— vol. 14 41
3gQQ UN-AMEKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVrXiES
PABT-TIME SCHOOLS
Au important type of school that can be organized wliever there is 50 or
moi'e Party members, is tlie part-time scliool. It can be couducted three or four
evenings and Saturday afternoon or Sunday each week for a 6- or 8-week period.
Practically no expense is involved. Workers from important industries and
shops who cannot get away for full-time schooling can go to these schools. The
students, however, should be relieved of all other Party tasks for the di;ration
of the school. These part-time schools may be of a general nature as well as
on an industrial basis, or devoted to comrades in specific fields of work — branch
oi'ganizers, women's work, Negro work, educational work, literature, finances, etc.
Lastly, although the leading comrades and committees must give attention
to this work, to guarantee the proper planning and execution of the plans, it is
necessary to establish a special apparatus for Party schools. Every large State
organization should have a director and a commission for this work, directly
responsible to the State Committee. Smaller districts, counties, and cities
should have a special subcommission as part of the Organizational-Educational
Commission.
All the above is put forward for discussion. Serious consideration should be
given this problem at all coming conventions. We feel certain that as a result
of the increased consciousness of the imix)rtauce of training personnel, and with
the experiences already gained we will be able to make further advances in this
important task. Great help can be given by all who are especially concerned
witii this field of activity, particularly by instructors and graduates of Party
schools, in seeing to it that these tasks and the problems connected with them,
are raised and pushed wherever they find themselves, as well as by sending to
the Center all suggestions and proposals for improvement.
Draft of Amended Constitution of the Communist Party, U. S. A.
The draft amended Constitution and By-Laws of the Communist Party, U. S. A.,
published hrreirith, is svhiuittrd lit/ the Political Burn, for discussion hy the
Party memhersh ip.
Final action on this draft, and on all anicudments and changes to he sub-
mitted, will be taken by the coming Tenth Ccnvvention.
All Party Units should devote at least one meeting to a discussion of the
Draft Constitution a'lid By-Lairs.
Units. Party Committees, and individual Pitrty members have the right to
submit amendments or additions, either through their elected delegates or
directly to the Central Commitiee prior to the opening of the Convention.
ARXTCI.H I
The name of this organization shall be tlie COMMUNIST PARTY of the
UNITED STATES OF A:MERICA.
article II
Emblem
The emblem of tlu' Party shall be the crossed hammer and sickle, with a cir-
cular margin having at the top 'Tommunist Party of the U. S. A." and under-
neath "Affiliated to the Communist International."
article III
Mcmber.^hip
Section 1. Any person, IS years of age or over, regardless of race, sex, color,
religious belief, or nationality, who is a citizen or who declares his intention of
becoming a citizen of the I'nited States and whose loyalty to the working class
is unquestioned, shall be eligible for membership.
SEcrnoN. 2. A Party member is one who accepts the Party program, attends
the regular meetings of the membership branch at his place of work or in liis
territory or trade, who pays dues regularly and is active in Party work.
Section 3. An applicant for membership shall sign an application card which
shall be endorsed by at least two members of the Communist Party. Applica-
tions are subject to discussion and decision liy the basic organization of the
Party (shop, industrial, neighborhood branches). After the applicant is ac-
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8801
cepted by a majority vote of the membership of the organization, he shall take
the Party pledge, as follows:
"I pledge firm loyalty to the best interest of the working class and full devo-
tion to all progressive movements of the people. I pledge to work actively for
the preservation and extension of democracy and peace, for the defeat of fascism
and all forms of national oppression, and for the establishment of Socialism.
For this purpose, I solemnly pledge to remain true to the principles of the
Communist Party, to maintain its units of purpose and action and to work to
the best of my ability to fuUill its program.''
Section 4. There shall be no mombers-at-large without special permission of
the National or State Committee.
Sectuin 5. Party members, two months in arrears in payment of dues, cease
to be members of the Party in good standing.
Section 6. Membei-s who are four months in arrears shall be stricken from
the Party rolls. Every member, three months in arrears, shall be officially in-
formed (^f this provision, and a personal effort made to bring such member into
good staudinj^.
ABTICLK IV
Jiiitiafion and Dues
Section 1. The initiation fee for an employed person shall be 50^, for an
unemployed person, lO^*.
Section 2. Dues shall be paid every month according to rates fixed by action
of the Party Convention.
Section 3. The income from dues is distributed to the various Party organ-
izations as follows :
a. 25 percent to the Branch.
b. 85 percent to the National Office.
c. The remaining 40 percent shall be distributed between the respective State,
County, City, and Section organizations in accordance with decisions of the
State Conventions.
article v
Internatlotml Solidarity and Assessment
Section 1. Every four months, all members of the Party shall pay an extra as-
sessment amounting to average dues payment per mouth for the previous four
months, for an International Solidarity Fund. This money shall be used by the
National Committee exclusively to aid our brother Communist Parties in other
countries sulleriiig from fascist and military reaction.
Section 2. All local or district assessments, or collections, are prohibited, except
by special permission of the Natio-nal Committee. Special assessments may be
levieu by the National Convention or the National Committee. No member is
considered in good standing unless he purchases such special assessment stamps.
AETICLE VI
RIGHTS ANO DUTIES OF MEMBERS
Section 1. The Communist Party of (he U. S. A. upholds the democratic achieve-
ments of the American people. It opposes with all its power any clique, group,
circle, faction, or party, which conspires or acts to subvert, undermine, weaken,
or overthrow any or all institutions of American democracy whereby the ma-
jority of the American ijeople have obtained power to determine their own destiny
in any degree. The Communist Party of the U. S. A., standing unqualifiedly for
the right of the majority to direct the destinies of our country, will fight with all its
strength against any and every effort, whether it comes from abroad oa- from
within, to impose upon our people the arbitrary will of any selfish minority group
or party or clique or conspiracy.
Section 2. Every member of the I'arly who' is in good standing, has not only a
right, but a duty, to participate in making (jf the policies of the Party, and in the
election of its leading committees in a manner procided for in the Constitution.
Section 3. In matters of state or local nature, the Party organizations have
the right to exercise full initiative and to make decisions within the limits of the
general policies and decisions of the Party.
Section 4. After thorough discussion, the majority vote decides the policy of
the Party, and the minority is duty-bound to carry out the decision.
8802 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Section 5. Party members disagreeing with any decision of the Party organiza-
tion or Committee have the right to appeal that decision to the next higher body,
and may carry the appeal to the highest bodies of the Communist Party of the
U. S. A., its National Committee, and the National Co-nvention. Decisions of the
National Convention are final. While the appeal is pending, the decision must
nevertheless be carried out by every member of the Party.
Section 6. In pre-Convention periods, individual I'arty members enjoy unre-
stricted rights of discussion on any question of Party policy and tactics, and the
uork and future composition of the leading committees.
Section 7. The decisions of the Convention shall be final and every Party mem-
ber and Party organization shall be duty-bound to recognize the authority of the
Convention decisions and the leadership elected by it.
Section 8. All Party members in mass organizations (trade unions, farm and
fraternal organizations, etc.) shall work jointly in a comradely manner to pro-
mote and strengthen the given organization.
Section 9. It shall be the duty of Party members, within the democratic pro-
cedure of the organization to which they belong, to explain tue mass policies of
the Party and the principles of Socialism, to endeavor to win supijort for them,
and they shall abide by the democratic decisions of the mass organizations.
Section 10. All Party members shall be required to belong to their resi>ective
trade unions.
Section 11. All offices and leading committees of the Party from the Branch
Executive Committee up to the highest committees, are elected either directly
by the membership or through their elected delegates. Every committee must
report regularly on its activities to its Party organization.
Section 12. All Party officers may be removed at any time from their position
by a majority vote of the body which elected them.
Section 13. Requests for release of a Party member from responsible posts
can be granted only by the Party organization wliich elected him, in consultation
with the next higher committee.
Section 14. No Party member .shall have personal or political relationship with
Trotskyites, Lovestoneites, or other known enemies of the Party and the working
class.
ARTICLE VII
Structure of the Parti/
Section 1. The basic organization of the Comnmnist Party of the U. S. A. are
the shop, industrial and territorial branches.
The Executive Committee of the Branch shall be elected at least yearly directly
by the membership.
Section 2. The Section Organization shall comprise all Branches in a given
territory of the city of State. The Section territory shall be defined by the
higher Party committee and shall cover one or more complete political divisions
of the city or State.
The highest body of the Section Organization is the Convention, or special
annual Council meeting, called for the election of officers, which shall convene
every year. The Convention or special Council meeting discusses and decides on
policy, and elects delegates to the higher Convention.
Between Conventions, the highest Party body is the Section Council, composed
of delegates elected proportionately from each Branch for a period of 2 years.
Where Councils do not exist, the highest Party body is the Section Conuuittee
elected by a majority vote of the Section Convention, which also elects the Section
Organizer.
The Section Council or Section Committee shall elect the Section Executive
Committee wiiich is responsible to the body that elected it. Nonmembers of the
Section Council can be elected to the Executive Committee only with the approval
of the next higher committee.
Section 3. In localities where there is fiiore than one section Organization a
City, or County, Council may be formed in accordance with the I'y-Laws.
Section 4. The State Organization shall comprise all Party organizations in one
State.
The highest body of the State Organization is the State Convention, which must
convene every 2 years, and shall be composed of delegates elected by the Con-
ventions of the subdivisions of the Party or Branches in the State. The delegates
are elected on the basis of numerical strength.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8803
A Slate Cvnumittee of rosulnr aiul altornato nipmbevs shall he elected at the
State Convention with full [lower to earry out the decisions of the Convention
and coniiuct the activities of tlie Party Organization until the next Convention.
The State Conimiftee shall elect from its body an Executive Committee, which
shall he responsible to the State Committee.
Spe( ial State Conventions may he called either hy a majority vote of the State
Conunittee, or the written reiiuests of the branches representing;; one-third of
the membership of the State, with the approval of the National Committee.
SiXJiioN 5. District ()rj?anizatioiis may be established by the National Com-
mittee, covering two or more States. In such cases the State Committees shall
l)e under the jurisdiction of the District Committees, elected by and representing
the Party oi'ganizations of the States composing these Districts. The rules of
convening District Conventions, the elections of leading committees, shall be the
.same as that provided for the State Organization.
ARTICI-E VIII
XatiniKil Orf/an ization
Section 1. The supreme authority in the Communist Party of the U. S. A. is
the National Convention. Regular Conventions shall be held every two years.
Only such a National Convention is authorized to make political and organiza-
tional decisions binding upon the entire Party and its membership.
Sexttion 2. The National Convention shall be composed of delegates elected by
the State and District Conventions. The delegates are elected on the basis of
numerical strength of the State Organizations. The basis for representation
.shall be determined by the National Committee.
Sfxtion 3. For two months prior to the Convention, discussions shall take
place in all Party organizations ou the main resolutions and problems coming
before the Convention. During this discussion all Party organizations have the
right and duty to adopt resolutions and amendments to the Draft Resolution of
the National Committee for consideration at the Convention.
Sf:cnoN 4. The National Convention elects the National Committee, a National
Chairman and General Secretary by majority vote. The National Committee
shall be composed of regular and alternate members. The alternate members
shall have voice but no vote.
Section 5. The size of the National Committee shall he decided upon by each
National Convention of the Party. Members of the National Committee must
have been active members of the Party for at least three years.
StX'TioN 6. The National Committee is the highest authority of the Party be-
tween Party Conventions, is responsible for enforcing the Constitution, for se-
curing the execution of the general policies adopted by the democratically elected
delegates in the National Convention asi^embled. The National Committee rep-
resents the Party as a whole, has the right to make decisions with full authority
on any problem facing the Party between Conventions. It organizes and super-
vises the various departments and committees of the National Committee of the
Party; conducts all its political and organizational work; appoints or removes
the editors of its press, who work r.nder its leadership and control ; organizes
and guides all undertakings of importance for the entire Party; distributes the
Party forces and controls the central treasury. The National Committee, by
majority vote of its members, may call si>ecial State or National Conventions.
The National Committee shall submit a certified, audited financial report to each
National ronvention.
SiXTi N 7. The National Conunittee elects from among its members a Political
Bureau, and such additional secretaries and such departments and committees
as may be considered necessary for most eflScieut work. The Political Bureau
is charged with the responsibility of carrying out the decisions and the work of
the National Committee between its fidl sessions. It is responsible for all its
decisions to the National Committee. The siz'^ of the Political Bureau shall be
decided unon by majority vote of the National Committee.
Members of the Political Bureau and Editors of the Central Party organs
must liave been active members of the Party for not less than five years.
The National Committee shall ni<»et at least once in four months.
The Polhureau of the National Conmiittee shall meet weekly.
The National Committee may, when it deems it neces.sary, call Party Con-
frences. The National Committee shall have full power to decide on the basis
8804 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
of attendance of sucli Conferences. Such Conferences shall be consultative bodies
auxiliary to the National Committee.
AKTICXE IX
National Control Commission
Seotton 1. For tlie purpose of maintaining and strengthening Party unity and
discipline, and of supervising the audits of the tinancial books and records of the
National Committee of the Party and its enterprises, the National Committee
elects a National Control Commission, consisting of the most exemplary Party
members, each of whom shall have been au active Party member for at least
five years.
The size of the National Control Conunission shall be determined by the
National Committee.
Section 2. On various disciplinary cases, such as violations of Party unity,
discipline and ethics, or concerning lack of class vigilance and Communist flrm-
ness in facing the class enemy, or of spies, swindlers, double-dealers, and other
agents of the class enemy — the National Control Commission shall be charged
with making investigations and decisions, either on appeals against the decisions
of lower Party bodies, or on cases which are referred to it l»y the National
Committee, or which the National Control Committee itself deems necessary
to take up directly.
Section 3. The decisions of the National Control Commission shall go into
effect as soon as their acceptance by the National Committee or its Political
Bureau is assured.
Section 4. Members of the National Control Commission shall have the right
to participate in the sessions of the National Conmiittee with voice but no vote.
Section 5. Meetings of the National Control Commission shall take place at
least once every month.
article X
Disciplinary Procedure
Section 1. Breaches of Party discipline by individual mmebers, financial
irregularities as well as any conduct or action detrimental to the Party's pres-
tige and influence among the working masses and harmful to the best interests
of the Party, may be punished by censure, public censure, removal from re-
sponsible posts, and by explusion from the Party. Breaches of discipline by
Party Committees may be punished by removal of the Committee by the next
higlier Party Committee, wliich shall then conduct new elections.
Section 2. Charges against individual members may be made by any person —
Party or non-Par ty — in writing, to the Branches of the Party or to any leading
committee. The Party Branch shall have the right to decide on any disciplinary
measiu'e, including exjilusion. Such action is subject to final approval by the
State Committee.
Section 3. The Section, State, National Committee, and National Control
Commission have the right to hear and take disciplinary action against any
individual member or organization under their jurisdiction.
Section 4. AU parties concerned shall have the fullest right to appear, to
bring witnesses, and to testify before the Party organization. The member
punished shall have the right to appeal any disciplinary decision to the
higher committees up to the National Convention of the Party.
Section 5. Party members found to be strike-breakers, degenerates, habitual
di'unkards, betrayers of Party confidence, provocateurs, advocates of terrorism
and violence as a method of Party procedure, or members whose actions are
detrimental to the Party and the working class, shall be summarily dismissed
from positions of responsibility, expelled and exposed before the general public.
article XI
Affiliation
Section 1. The Communist Party of the U. S. A. is affiliated with its fra-
ternal Communist Parties of other lands through the Communist International,
participates in International Congresses, through its National Committee.
Resolutions and decisions of International Congresses shall be acted upon by
the supreme authority of the Communist Party of the U. S. A., the National
Convention, or between Conventions, by the National Committee.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8805
ARTICLE XII
Amvnding of Constitution
Section 1. This Constitution can be amended by a majority vote of the
delegates of the National Convention, if the Aiuondnient has been published
in the Party press or Discussion Bulletins of the National Committee at least
30 days prior to the Convention.
ARTICLE xni
By-Latcs
Section 1. By-Laws shall be adopted, based on this Constitution, for the pur-
pose of establishing uniform rules and procedure of the proper functions of
the Party Or.uanizatious. By-Laws shall be adopted or changed by majority
vote of the National Convention, or between Conventions by majority vote of
the National Committee.
Section 2. State By-Laws not in conflict with the National Constitution
and By-Laws, may be adopted or changed by majority vote of the State Con-
ventions, or between conventions by majority vote of the State Committee.
article XIV
Charters
Skction 1. The National Coniniittee shall issue Charters to State, County,
aiid City Oi'ganizations, defining the territory over which they have jurisdic-
tion and authority.
Draft of Ruls:s and By-Laws, C. P., U. S. A.
The following are the Rules and By-Laws adopted by the Communist Party
of the United States of America, in accordance with its Constitution, for the
purpose of applying the Principles, Rights, and Duties as established in the
Constitution in a uniform manner in all Party Organizations.
basic organizations
The basic organizations of the Communist Party of the U. S. A. are the shop,
industrial, and territorial branches. A shop branch consists of those Party
members who are employed in one place. Shop branches shall be organized
in every factory, shop, mine, ship, dock, office, etc., where there is a sufficient
number of Party members, but no less than seven.
Industrial branches shall consist of Party members employed in the same
trade or industry ; they shall be composed of those Party members who are
employed in places where shop branches have not yet been formed. Industrial
branches shall organize shop branches wherever possible.
A territorial branch consists of members of the Party living in the same
neighborhood or territory. Territorial branches shall be organized on the basis
of the political division of the city or town (assembly district, ward, precinct,
election district, town, or township, etc.).
Every branch of the Party shall elect an Executive Committee, which shall
consist of at least the following oflicers : chairman, treasurer, educational
director, membership director. The size of the Executive Committee shall
be determined by the size of the branch, but shall not be less than four.
The Executive Committe has the duty of preparing the agenda and pro-
posals for the membership meeting, administering and executing the decisions
of the membership and the higher Party connuittee, and between branch meet-
ings, to make decisions concerning matters which require immediate action.
The Executive Committee of the Branch shall report regularly of its work,
which shall be subject to review and action of the meml)ership.
Regular election of branch officei-s shall take place at least yearly, but
not more than twice a year. All oflicers shall be elected by majority vote of
the membership, at a specially notified meeting. Officers may be replaced by
majority vote of fhe branch membership at any time, with the approval of the
higher Party committee.
Financial statements shall be submitted to the branch by the Executive
Committee at least quarterly.
8806 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
The order of business at the branch meeting shall include the following: (a)
reading of minutes of previous meeting; (b) dues payments and initiation of
new members; (c) report of Executive Committee:
1. Check-up on decisions (old business) ;
2. Assignments and tasks, reports on communications, literature and press
(new business) :
(d) good and welfare; (e) regular educational discussion (educational dis-
cussion can be moved to any point on the order of business).
One-third of the branch membership shall constitute a quorum.
Branches shall meet at least once in every two weeks.
SECTION ORGANIZATIONS
Delegates to the Section Convention shall be elected by all branches in pro-
portion to their membership. The basis of representation shall be decided upon
by the Section Committee in consultation with the higher Party Committee.
Any delegate to the Section Council may be recalled by a majority vote of
his branch. The Section Council meets regularly once a month.
The Section Council shall m-ake a report at least once in three mouths
to the general membership meeting of the Section.
The Section Council shall submit financial reports to tlie branches and to
the higher Party Committee, at least once in three months.
CITY OR COUNTY ORGANIZATIONS
In cities where there is more than one Section Organization, a City Council
may be formed by the election of delegates either from the Section Councils or
directly from the branches. The role of this form of organization is to coor-
dinate and guide the work on a city-wide scale, and shall actively participate
in or .supervise Party activity in all public elections and civic affairs within its
territory.
The City Council elects from among its members a City Executive Committee
with the same rights and duties as the Section Executive O^mimittee.
The State Committee has the right to form County Councils with the same
rights and duties on a county scale as the City Council has on a city scale.
The structure of the County Organization shall be the same as the City
Council.
STATE OR DISTRICT ORGANIZATION
For two months prior to the Convention, discussion shall take place in all
Party organizations on the main resolutions and problems coming before the
Convention. During this discussion, all Party organizations have the right
and duties to adopt resolutions and amendments to the Draft Resolutions of the
State Committee, for consideration at the Convention.
Only members who are at least two years in the Party can be eligible for
election to the State Committee. Exceptions can be made only by Conventions,
The size of the State Committee shall be decided upon by the Convention, in
consultation with the National Committee.
The State Committee shall meet at least once in every two months. It shall
elect from its b(jdy an Executive Committee to function with full power, and
shall be responsible to the State Committee.
The State Conunittee, by a majority vote of its members, may replace any
regular member who is unable to serve because of sickness or other assign-
ment, or who is removed from office. New regular members shall be chosen
from among the alternate members of the State Committee.
An auditing conunittee, elected by the State Committee, shall examine the
books of the State Financial Secretary every month. A Certified Public Ac-
countant shall audit these books at least once a year, and his report shall be
presented to the State Coniniittee and Conventions.
Special State Conventions may be called by a majority vote of the State Com-
mittee, or by the National Committee.
Upon the written request of branches representing one-third of the member-
ship of the State Organization, the State Committee shall call a special State
Convention.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES §807
The call for a Special Convention shall be subject to the approval of the
National Committee.
The State Committee shall have the power to establish an official organ with
the approval of the National Committee.
The State Committee shall conduct or supervise Party activity in all public
elections and state-wide public affairs within the State.
The State Committee shall, if it deems it necessary, appoint a Disciplinary
Connnittee with the task of hearing disciplinary cases, and report their findings
and reconnnendations to the State Committee.
QUAOFICAIIONS lOK OIXEGATES TO CONVENTIONS
Delegates to the State Convention must be In good standing and have been
nienibt>rs of the Party for at least one year.
Delegates to the National Convention must be in good standing and have
been member.^: of the Party for at least two years.
In special cases, the latter qualitications (length of time in Party) may be
waived, but only with the approval of the leading committee involved (Na-
tional Connnittee for the Natnmal Convention, State Committee for the State
Convention).
BATES OF DI^ES
The initiative fee for an employed person shall be 500; for an unemployed
person 100.
Dues shall be paid every month according to the following rates:
a. Housewives, unemployed and all membe|rs earning up to $47.00 a
month — pay lOc' a month.
b. All members earning from .$47.(i6 to $112.00 inclusive, per month — ^pay
500 a month.
c. All members earning from $112.66 to $160.00 inclusive, per month — pay
$1.00 a month.
d. Members earning $160.00 and over per mouth, pay. besides the regular
dues, additional dues at the rate of 500 for each $10.00 or fraction
thereof.
Dues are receipted for by dues stamps issued by the National Committee.
TRANSFERS AND LEAVES OF ABSENCE
Members who move from one place to another, and have to go from one
branch to another, shall obtain transfers from their branches. No member
shall be accepted by the new branch without a properly fllled out transfer
card. Before receiving transfers, members shall be in good standing and pay
up all other financial obligations to their branches. If a member transfers
from one section or city organization to another, a duplicate transfer card
shall be transmitted through the State or District Committee. If a member
transfers from one state or district to another, this shall be recorded in the
membership book, and a duplicate transfer card shall be sent through the
National Committee.
Menibei-s of the Party whfi desire to leave the country, and to go to another
country, mu.st obtain the permission of the National Committee of the Party.
No member has a right to take a leave of absence without the permission
of this branch. Leaves of absence not exceeding one month may be granted
by the branch. An extended leave of ab.sence, upon the recommendation of
the branch, is acted upon by the next higher committee of the Party. Before
a leave of absence is given the member shall pay dues, and settle his financial
obligations up to and including the end of the leave of absence period.
Discussion BxnxETiN
P. O. Box 87, Station D, New York, N. Y.
gg08 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Workers School
35 E. 12th St., N. Y. C. Tel.: Algonquin 4-1199
A. Markoff, Director
SCHOLARSHIP
Date
Tlie has assigned
(Name of organization)
Name to take
the following courses at the Workers School :
at the scholarship rates of $2.50 for each political course and .$3 for English.
Enclosed find $ covering the total tuition fee for the above-mentioned
courses.
Signed
Secretary
Address
The total tuition fee with this credential must be presented by the student when
he comes to register. All blank spaces must be filled in by the secretary, as
indicated, Scholarships are for political courses only. They do not apply to
Russian and Spanish.
(Union label 224)
Mr. Starnes. You may proceed with the witness, Dr. Matthews,
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, I show you a collection of 19 pages
of photostatic copies of handwritten notes. Can you identify those
documents as among the material which you obtained
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. In this case ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matihews. I offer these in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. They will be received.
(The 19 pages referred to above were marked "Birmingham Ex-
hibit No. 46.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, it is my personal opinion that these
documents are as conclusive, if not more so, than any other material
in the entire collection. It has been verified that these notes are in
the handwriting of Nancy Reed. I will read you some of the matters
from the first page.
Mr. VooRHis. Just a minute; just for the record, how has it been
verified ?
Mr. Matthews. By checking her handwriting on her i^assport and
other documents, which are undeniably her personal documents in her
own handwriting.
Mr. VooKHis. I see.
Mr. Matthews. The first item on this page is "Letter from Brown,
congratulations,-' the fourth item is "Workers' School," the fifth
item is "New Members, 8 P. M." In parentheses "8 Party Mem-
bers," I would assume that could mean.
"Dues; Manifesto; C. P. stand on Roosevelt; Next week Spain,"
and then some undecipherable material.
On the third page there appears "Party affairs." That is one
of the items listed. "Daily Worker Quota" is another of the items —
"recruiting on Lenin Day" is one of the items discussed. "Frac-
tion meeting, books for next discussion — Stalinism — the Party, shop
papers."
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8809
111 otluT woid^, Mr. Chairman, there are hundreds of references
liere to matters which can only have reference to the Communist
Party. Tliese are apparently minutes of some kind taken in the
liandVritiuij: of Nancy Reed. It AA'ould be my own interpretation
of the material that this was a fraction meeting of the union to
which Miss Reed belonged and which she is known to be a func-
tionary— the State, Municipal, and County Workers Union. In
other words, this is a meeting of the members of the Communist
Party who were also in the local union.
Mr. VooRHis. But there isn't anything in there that definitely
says that that is what it is, is that right?
Mr. MArriiEws. The deduction which I base that statement on
is that there are these numerous references to Communist Party
matters and then also union matters, such as civil-service status,
which would be a subject which would beFong directly in the field
of the State, Municipal, and County Workers Union, and since we
do know that Miss Reed is an official, in fact, the vice president of
her local, that is Local 28, is it not, Mr. Birminghani?
Mr. Birmingham. That is right.
Mr. Mati'hews. Of the State, Municipal, and County Workers
of America, it would appear to me that these are minutes, at least
most of them are minutes, which she made of the Communist Party
fraction of that particular union. But, at any rate, the connection
with the Comnumist Party is unmistakable and certainly not acci-
dental.
Among the names listed frequently in these minutes is the name
of McLaughlin.
In the effects of Nancy Reed which the committee obtained, there
are receipts for dues for Communist Party membership made out
to Ann McLaughlin. There is that bit of evidence and other evi-
dence which seems to show that Nancy Reed's party name is "x^nn
McLaughlin."
Mr. Birmingham, you have examined these documents. I have
just made the statement that it would appear from various pieces of
evidence in these documents that the Party name of Nancy Reed is
■'Ann McLaughlin." Would that be your judgment, based on your
knowledge of these documents?
Mr. Birmingham. I had information and was told that that was
her party name and the number of her card.
I\Ir. Matthews. And in addition to that you have information
which includes the number of her party membership book?
Ml-. Birmingham. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matthews. Was that information obtained by a person who
handled the party membership book of Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. It was in her possession.
Mr. Matthews. Was in this person's possession ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And the number of the book was taken down and
the book was made out to Ann McLaughlin; is that correct?
]\Ir. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. ]VIatthews. Will you please read that into the record ?
Mr. Birihingham. The book was made out to Ann McLaughlin,
Communist Party, 1940, No. 5281, branch 40-S, signed "Israel Amter."
8810 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. A-m-t-e-r ?
Mr. BiR]MiNGHAM. Yes ; secretary, assembly district 12.
Mr. Starnes. Before you get away from these minutes, are these the
original minutes?
Mr. Matthews. These are minutes in the handwriting of Nancy
Reed.
Mr. Starnes. The documents you handed me before — these are
original documents of which you have no photostatic copies?
Mr. Birmingham. They are, as far as I know.
Mr. Starnes. You should be careful of those documents, because
they contain information that will get us somewhere. It is the first
time we have gotten hold of documents showing membership by num-
ber. I notice these documents deal with the growth and composition
of the Communist Party for the year 1936, 1937, and 1938, giving the
registered number, shop units, industrial units, neighborhood branches ;
number of Negroes estimated or actually are given here.
Mr. Mason. Is that for a State or the Nation as a whole?
Mr. Starnes. "The tenth party convention." That must mean for
the Nation as a whole. It does deal with it as a whole because it gives
here the number in the A. F. of L. as 8,987 and for the C. I. O. 16,509 ;
members in the AVorkers' Alliance, 5,929.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, that is exactly the proportion that
Earl Browder testified to. He said there were about twice as many
Communist members in the C. I. O. as in the A. F. of L.
Mr. Starnes. "Native, 14,743 in 1936 and in 1938. 30,165." It shows
foreign born, 23,847 in 1938. It shows for 1938 in the party for 1 year
or less, 26,806, which would indicate a tremendous growth at that time.
The second page indicates that the State having the most Negi-o mem-
bers was New York State, with 22,060, and California second with
4,739, while the State of Alabama had 581.
Mr. VooRHis. They haven't as many people in Alabama.
Mr. Starnes. I want to ask something for my own information.
This keeps speaking here about the work in the "foreign field," and it
speaks here in a review about the need for unity and says :
la the Midwest the Farm Holiday Association and in the South Sharecroppers
Union united with tlie National Farmers Union last year.
Where I said "foreign" it should be "farmers." It continues :
Independent groups in New York, Louisiana, and California are being urged to
unite with the Farmers Union.
I am wondering if that means the National Farmers Union, that has
been in existence for many years, or is it another sort of farm organi-
zation bearing that name which the Communist Party claims to control
or have a dominant voice in ?
Mr. VooRHis. If I could interpose — this is 1938, which is the first
thing to be remembered, and you will recall ]\Ir. Browder's testimony
and a number of other people whom we had before our committee, was
to the effect that they were attempting to form a great political union
with all sorts of organizations and kinds, and these are outfits, I take
it, that they are attempting to make use of in such a way as they can
in connection with that sort of political line, and I also believe that it
is true that there is an organization that calls itself the Farmers' Union
which is not the Farmers' Educational and Cooperative Union.
UN-AMERICAN PKOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8811
Mr. Starnes. That is what I am trying to get straight.
Mr. VooRHis. But has more or less prostituted tlvit name.
Mr. Starnes. Prostituted the name and calls itself the National
Farm Union.
j\Ir. VooRHis. That is right.
Mr. Starnes. That was the point the Chair is trying to get straight
in his mind.
Mr. Matthews. The committee's files are rather full on that subject,
Mr. Chairman, and I think you will find this is the situation: About
10 years ago the Connnunist Party, through two of its leading mem-
bers, Hal Ware, one of the sons of ]\Iother Bloor, who had spent some
years in the Soviet Union, and Lem Harris, set up an organization
which they called just the Farmers' Union.
In the Daily Worker of that period, for example, the Farmers'
Union in various places, and I would assume it in most cases didn't
have a half dozen members, would nevertheless make a public endorse-
ment of the Communist Party candidates for public office. In other
words the evidence is quite clear that that particular Farmers' Union
was set up by the Connnunist Party and was simply a front for the
Communist Party in view of these endorsements w^hich it made.
Mr. Starnes. But it has not part and ])arcel with the Farmers'
Mr. VooRHis. The right name for the thing that is commonly called
the Farmers' Union of America is the Farmers' Educational and Co-
operative Union of America.
Mr. Mattheavs. Yes; but this organization was known officially as
the Farmers' Union and I would assume was the oraauization re-
ferred to in these minutes, because the Sharecroppers' Union of Ala-
bama was a distinctly Communist Party affair as contrasted with the
Southern Farmers' Tenant Union which was organized largely by
Socialists and which was not
Mr. YooRHis. Which was not Communist ?
Mr. ^Matthews. That is correct ; which was not Communist.
Mr. Starnes. I notice it speaks of the Coughlinites were eliminated
from leadership in the Alabama Farmers' Union and that they suffered
defeats in Ohio and Pennsylvania.
^Nlr. Matthews. There are references in some of these documents
to Father Coughlin which shoAv there was some anxiety on the part
of some of the correspondents of Nancy Reed that the Coughlinite
influence was growing in some of the party organizations, which
would be exactly in line with what you find there.
Mr. VooRHis. What is that ?
Mr. Mattheavs. That the Coughlinite influence was growing in
party organizations.
Mr. YooRHis. That is too much for me.
^Iv. Starnes. It is i-eferred to in this document.
Mr. Matthews. These corres])ondents wei-e at least alleffinir that
the Coughlinites were trying to bore from wnthin the Comnumist
Party.
Mr. Starnes. That is correct. You will find reference to that in
these mimites here of the central committee.
We will recess now until 2 o'clock this afternoon.
(Whereupon, at 12:20 p. m.. the committee recessed until 2 p. m.,
I lie same day.)
8812 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
AFTERNOON SESSION
(The committee met at 2 p. m.)
Mr. Starnes. The committee will resume its session.
You may proceed, Dr. Matthews. ]
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN BIRMINGHAM— Resumed
Mr. Matitiews. Mr. Birmingham, I show you a photostatic cop^
oi a letter and ask you to identify that. Was that among the papers
that you obtained by subpena?
Mr. Birmingham. It was.
Mr. Matthews. This is a letter addressed : "Nancy, me darlin', how
are you?" It is signed "Anna," and, Mr. Chairman, Anna has not
been i^lentified. On the original the signature is in a red pencil and
in parentheses after the signature in the same handwriting, the
author of the letter said, "red pencil anyway." The letter reads as
follows :
Nancy, me darlin', how are you? Write and tell me what you are doing, and
what the New York news is. I was working for the capitalists at the Guaranty
Trust, where Jerry worked, but this job is so much better, and more inter-
esting.
How is Johnny? And your mother? And Mary? — but mostly yourself,
Nancy? You lead such an exciting life that I know you don't have much time.
But in between causes, drop a line to your old friend, who, though on the other
side of the fence, still loves you.
Old Prexy Roosevelt seems to have shifted over to your side from mine,
the heretic! And people say Father Coughlin has gone red, so it's all mixed
up! I don't try to figure it out, honestly! I'll let you go .in for the causes,
and let me know what's what.
Do you come to dear old Beantown? Don't fail to call me up or I'll be
disappointed. Parkway 4673-M, and the address is 91 Anawan Avenue, West
Roxbury — you know, the next step up for the Irish after Dorchester.
Write soon, will you?
Fond regards,
Signed Anna (red pencil anyway).
Mr. Chairman, I think the significance of that letter is to be found
in several places in this material, namely, that Nancy Eeed's friends
have known for years that she was connected with the Communist
movement.
Mr. Starnes. In other words you think the purpose of the letter
would disclose the fact that she is known to be a Communist even
by those who are not Communists and this is a link in the cham ?
Mr. Matthews. Yes. And I offer that letter in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 47.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, we have here a collection of
documents; can you identify those?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, this is a letter from Kit, addressed
"Dear Nan," from 1136 Logan, Denver, Colo.
Mr. Birmingham, have you been able to identify "Kit," the author
of this letter as Kit Bowler?
Mr. Birmingham. I have.
Mr. Matthews. In this letter Kit Bowler, writing to Nan from
Denver, Colo., states that she is enclosing with the letter a report
UN- AMERICAN PllOPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8813
to Nancy on the Cono-ress Ao-ainst War and Fascism, which was held
in Cliica<i(). And this is a nine-page typewritten report which was
with the letter you obtained?
Mr. BnjMiNGHAM. It was.
Mr. Matthews. Is that correct?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes; attached to it.
Mr. Matthews. Now, a part of the significance of these two docu-
ments is this, IMr. Chairman : The letter is addressed "Dear Nan" and
the letter itself states that a report of the congress is being sent to
Nan, but tile report itself is addressed to Ann McLaughlin, which
would be further evidence that Ann McLaughlin is the party name of
Nancy Reed.
This report is on the Congress Against War and Fascism, which
was held in Chicago in September and October 1934.
Mr. Starnes. Any particular significance to the report?
Mr. Matthews. The report is a very detailed, single-spaced, type-
written nine-page report on that congress and the Communist influence
in the congress to Nancy Reed, That is, this is one of many reports
found in the effects of Nancy Reed which seem to indicate that she
for some reason or other was the recipient officially of reports on Com-
munist activities in various parts of the United Srates.
Mr. Starxes. Dr. Matthews, what is the significance of that?
Would it tend to show that Nancy Reed was a high functionary of
the Communist Party or she wouldn't be receiving such reports?
iMr. ^Matthews. Air. Chairman, Mr. Birmingham testified this
morning and it is also my conclusion, drawn from all this evidence,
that these documents show conclusively by their nature and contents
that Nancy Reed Avas and is a very high functionary of the Com-
munist Party, and particularly when you couple that with the fact
that she was burying these documents where she believed they would
be in safe keeping. They were not being deposited in a vault of a
bank but were being buried rather unusually, under the porch of
the ancestral home in Cape Cod, Mass.
I shall read one or two sentences from the letter:
So, I enclose my report on the really marvelous congress. * * * xhe im-
portant tiling is the questionnaire against war which you have probably received
from the section or from the League vs. War and Fascism direct.
Now, in the language of the Communist Party that must refer to
the section of the party which was in charge of that kind of a front
organization.
The roinnnmist Party ran away with the convention as far as hard work,
honor, and reward went. You can get mimeographed copies of many of the
Sfieeches from the league, I think.
And then the report follows.
The end of the letter states :
My very best, if rather late, regards to you and my comrade friends, fraternally,
Kit.
I offer these in evidence, if the chairman please.
Mr. v'^tarxes. They will be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 48.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify these two docu-
ments as among the papers which you obtained ?
8814 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Birmingham. I can; yes.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Cliairman, here is a photostat copy of a receipt
for dues paid to the Communist Party. The receipt is made out
"May 9, 1939, to Ann McLaughlin." It is marked "S. F.," which in
party parhince refers to tlie solidarity fund, one section of the dues
paid by members of the Communist Party into the party treasury.
The'number of the receipt is 95653-A and is for $16.25. Three dol-
lars of it is allocated to the solidarity fund and $13.25 to Spain.
This receipt was attached to a letter, was it not, Mr. Birming-
ham ^
Mr. Birmingham. It was.
Mr. Matthews. Signed by C. Oumansky, the Soviet Ambassador
for the United States, and addressed to Mrs. Ferdinanda W. Reed,
Sandwich, Cape Cod, Mass.
This is on the letterhead of the Embassy of the Soviet Socialist
Republics, dated June 27, 1939.
I think Mr. Birmingham and I are not able to offer any reason-
able explanation as to why the Soviet Ambassador should be re-
turning to Ferdinanda W. Reed, the mother of Nancy Reed, a Com-
munist Party receipt made out to Ann McLaughlin, but nevertheless
the fact is that that was done.
Have you any interpretation of that, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. No ; none other than what you said.
Mr. Matthews. I oifer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The receipt and letter referred to were marked "Birmingham
Exhibit No. 49.")
Mr. Matthews. We do know, Mr. Chairman, that from time to
time the party members use their dues receipts as means of identi-
fication and it would be possible we would ask Miss Reed that
if she were here, whether or not her party dues receipt was sent
to the Soviet Ambassador in order to identify her as a member
in good standing of the Communist l^irty in this country for pur-
poses of going to the Soviet Union, inasmuch as the letter of the
Ambassador refers to a trip to tlie Soviet LTnion. That is among
the possibilities.
Can you identify that document, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. i3iRMiNGHAM. I caii.
Mr. Matthews. As one of the papers you obtained?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. This is a letter signed "T. H. Wintringham'' and
is addressed to "Dear Comrade North."
This was among the effects of Nancy Reed. The "Comrade
North" referred to here, is Joseph North, as revealed in a large
part of the correspondence which you obtained, Mr. Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And just why Joseph North's correspondence, in
part at least, was in the possession of Nancy Reed, we are again
able to guess only that she must have been the custodian of im-
portant party records.
Joseph North has been an editor of the New Masses and a promi-
nent Connnunist Party member, publicly avowed as such for a long
period of years.
UN-AMKUICAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIKS 8815
The v. H. AA'intiin<>h;ini, the signer of the letter, was a high Coni-
niunist Party fiuictiouarv in Great Britain, j)i-ior to the outbreak
of the war and is now reported to be in the United States, having
taken up permanent residence here.
At the time of the writing of this letter, Wintringham was in
Albacete, Spain. He is writing to Joseph North from Spain. He
.says in part:
You are the only member of tlie C P. U. S. A. with wIkhh I have corre-
spoiuU'd ; that is why I write to yon to ask your lielp in ^t'tting f(U" my fripud,
Kitty llciwlor. ilie letter of i-ecomuiendatioii from the Party Central Com-
mirtee that ^^he needs.
She applied to join the Spanisli C. P. in January, and was told all for-
eigners aijplying nuist have a letter from their home party. This necessary
formality is strictly ol)served here. Letters to the United States have been
misunderstood and I hope you can hiu'ry up the O. K. which must, however,
of cc)urse, be sent by hand.
Comrade Bowli'r, whom 1 have known since September of last year, when we
met in Barcelona, has been doing excellent work here as a .iournalist and in other
ways. People develop (luickly in a revolutionary situation- such as this is and
show their qualities clearly. I worked closely with Kitty when myself a jouruiil-
ist. touring the Aragon front with her for ten days. When I joined the Inter-
national Brigade (I commanded the Anglo-Irish Battalion for a short time and
am now being nursed by Kitty through typhoid) she worked for the Manchester
(Juardian in Valencia, and I have had good rep(n'ts of her woik.
You have already identified Kitty Bowler as the author of this
report sent from Denver, Colo., to Xancy Reed, have you not, Mr.
Birmingham?
Mr. Birmingham. Correct.
Mr. Matthews. So next we find Kitty Bowler in Albaceta, Spain,
and a functionarj- of the British Conmumist Party writing to Joseph
North to get her credentials to enter the Communist Party of Spain,
and the correspondence is in the hands of Nancy Reed, which again,
Mr. Chairman, is an indication that we have here a pattern showing
her unquestioned affiliation with the Connnunist Party.
I offer this in evidence. .
]Mr. Stahxes. It will be received.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 50.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify that document ?
]Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. ]\Iatthew^s. This is a letter addressed to "Dear Nan." and
signed with the single letter "B."
Mr. Birmingham, have you been able from other letters in this file
to identify the author of tliis particular letter?
Mr. BnjMiNGiiAM. Yes; that is Beth McHenry.
Mr. jNIatthews. And who is Beth McHenry f
Ml-. BufMiNGHAM. The wife of Blackie Meyers of the Maritime
Union.
^Iv. Matthews. That is Frederick N. Meyers, who is known as
Blackie Meyers?
Mr. Bnj.AJiNGiiAM. Yes. sir.
Mr. MvnHEWs. And Beth McHenrv is also a featm-e writer for the
Daily Worker?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, sir,
Mr. Matt^hews. And has been such for a period of years?
JMr. Birmingham. Riffht.
62626—41 — vol. 14 42
8816 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Mr. Matthews. This letter from Beth McHenry, addressed to "Dear
Nan," reads : "A full report on party activities in Birmingham and the
South" — It appears that Beth McHenry is on a tour of tlie South and
is reporting to Nancy Reed. The letter begins: "Sunday afternoon
in Birmingham."
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 51.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify that as another
of the documents which you obtained in this collection of material?
Mr. Birmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, here is the second letter which has
been identified for the record from the same party, this time signed
with the typewriter, "BE.," and addressed to "Dear Nan," which also
deals with Birmingham.
I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 52.")
]\fr. Matthews. I show you a collection of documents. Can you
identify these as a part of the material which you obtained?
Mr. I3irmingham. I can.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, these are letters from High Point,
N. C. All of them are from High Point, N. C., and addressed to
Nancy Reed, in New York, and most of them are signed "Red," but
some of them are signed with a typewriter "K. Y. Hendrix."
We know from previous testimony before this conmniittee, particu-
larly by Fred Beale, that K. Y. Hendrix was one of the defendants in
the Gastonia murder trial some 3'ears ago and that he was known as
"Red Hendrix."
Presumably the letters signed "Red," from High Point, N. C, are
from K. Y. Hendrix. In fact, one of that at the top is lieaded "K. Y.
Hendrix. Higli Point, N. C, Box 304," and then is signed "Red."
These letters are in the form of reports on strike activities in North
Carolina — strike activities of recent date.
Hendrix was convicted and went to the Soviet Union and then came
back and served a part of his term in the penitentiary in North Caro-
lina and was paroled and is now again, according to these letters,
engaged in Connnunist Party activities at High Point, and is making
repoi'ts to Nancy Reed, in New York.
This letter reads :
My dearest friend : Will drop yon a line to let you know I am still kicking.
Weli, how is all the comrades in the sity. Give them my hest regards. What
ahout our friend, Beale. Wasn't he a rotten skunk. Well, Nan, I have quit
drinking. I hav not taken a drink in a long time. I am trying to do sompthin
worthwhile.
We have a very good branch hear we have a office hear in High Point and
we ar trying to rase some money to git started off with. I am sending you a
collection list and will you bee so kind as to try to git us some help.
Will rite you again just as soon as I liear from you.
Love, forever. Red.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8817
In the second letter from Red, marked "K. Y. Hendrix" at the top of
the letter, is addressed :
"Dear Sweet (iirl." The letter thanks Nancy for, or at least the
recipient of the letter, for some money which has been sent down, and
this statement appears :
You git ill touch with Grnco Hutclioii and make her help you rase some money
for this district, and you call up Sophey Melvin and ask her to donate some to
this district. She is Si Gerson's wife and she noes how hard it is to gitt along
down hear.
Mr. Chairman, (irace Hutchon has been identified as the treasurer of
the Communist Party in New York, and Sophey Melvin is here identi-
fied in the letter as the wife of Simon Gerson.
Another letter also is a request for funds, and then a letter says:
Dear Nan : Red has turned over to our committee the money which you sent
in which is $500.
This is signed "Comradely yours, W. S. Helems, secretary,"
"Red" is described as "Comrade Red" in the letter and it would ap-
pear from this that in one remittance at least Nancy Reed had sent
$500 for this work in High Point, N. C.
Another letter from Red to Nan that asks her for money that was
sent down to save the hall as the rent was due the day the money ar-
rived. However, Mr. Hendrix writes in this letter :
If you can git nie a job I will come to the city to stay. The rest of it I am
gitting tired of working like hell all the time and never having a dime for
nothing.
Another letter from Red to Nancy reports on a strike at one of the
mills in High Point, and still another letter from Red to Nancy, dated
January 9, 1939. thanks her for $10 that she sent down for the opening
up of a party office in High Point. I am not reading these letters into
the record, Mr. Chairman,
Here is another letter from K. Y. Hendrix to "Dear Nancy," which
reports on the .strike at the Adams & Millas Hosiery Miir; another
letter transmitting a clipping from a newspaper in High Point to
"Dear Nan." I otfer these in evidence.
]Mr. Starxes. They will be received.
(The letters referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit No.
53.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, I show 3'ou some documents that
relate to Cuba and Nancy Reed's activities in Cuba. Can you identify
those as among the documents which you obtained ?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. The first document here is a ])hotograph of a parade
in Havana and in the center of the parade is shown Nancy Reed
marching.
I offer that in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
yir. St.mjxes. It will l)e received.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 54.")
Mr. Matthew.s. The second document is an official 'lelegate's cre-
dentials is.sued to Nancy Reed as the representative of the State,
§g][g UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
County, and Municipal Workers of America, Local 28, affiliated with
the C. I. ()., showing Nancy Reed, to be an accredited delegate to the
National Congi-ess of Workers meeting in Havana on January 23,
1939.
These credentials are in Spanish and the translation is appended.
I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 55.")
INIr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, will you identify this document?
Mr. Birmingham. I do.
Mr. Matthews. In whose handwriting is that ?
Mr. Birmingham. Nancy Heed's.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, this is a note in the handwriting of
Nancy Reed on the letterhead of the National Congress of Workers, to
which Miss Reed was an accredited delegate in Havana, and her
description of that congress is as follows :
Oh, how I wish you could be here, here In this hall of 1,(XI0 delej;ates of workers
from all over the Island of Cuba. As I sit here on the platform the hall is seeth-
ing with honest faces — all colors from light-skinned Spanish to dark negro. The
air is warm, the sky is blue. The serious atmosphere of attention to all the prob-
lems of so many industries, principally sugar, tobacco, and shipping. Just now a
strong clear eyed man came up to the platform and the microphone announced
him, and he gave the clenched fist salute. About % of tlie delegates are C. P.
and are openly recognized as such.
I offer that in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 56.")
Mr. ]\1atthews. Another document also on the stationery of the
National Congress of Workers in Havana is an address of greeting to
the congress. That may have been a memorandum of Miss Reed's own
remarks to the congress. At least it was in her file.
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 57.")
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, can you identify Eddie Gordon?
Mr. Birmingham. He is a Communist leader of the Maritime Work-
ers Union in Havana, Cuba.
Mr. Matthews. Does this material disclose that Nancy Reed and
Eddie Gordon have had contact with each other?
Mr. Birmingham. Quite a good deal of it.
Mr. Matthew^s. Mr. Birmingham, I show you a memorandum on
Eddie Gordon and ask if that is a factual statement which is the result
of your investigation?
Mr. Birmingham. It is.
Mr. Matthews. And again a document entitled : "Communist
Party Courier and Transmission System" and ask you to identify
that document?
Mr. Birmingham. That was written by Eddie Gordon.
Mr. Matthews. Written by Eddie Gordon ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
I X-AMEIUCAX PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8819
Mr. Mattiikws. Mv. Cliairnian, T ask that these documents be
niarkod for identification in this proceedino-.
Mr. Stakxf.s. Without objection it is so ordered.
(The documents referred to are marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 58.")
INIr. Matthews. Ecklie (lordon is identified as a prominent Coni-
numist in the Cuban Conununist movement, particuUirly connected
with the shippino; industry.
Mr. BiKiMixc.iiAM. INIaritime industry and also a courier of the
party, deliverino- messages back and forth between the United States
and Cuba
Mr. Mati'hews. And in close touch with Nancy Reed.
INIr. Birmingham. Without ])assports or anything else.
Mr. JSIatthews. Mr. Birmingham, I would like to ask you at this
time if you have confidential information of indisputable character to
the effect that Nancy Eeed, prior to the outbreak of war between
Germany and Russia, was tipping off information concerning the
.sailing of convoys to Great Britain^
Mr. Birmingham. I have.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, I think that is perhaps as significant
a piece of information as you could have. This woman whose Com-
munist connections are shown to have covered a period of some 20
years is known to have been engaged in very definite espionage activi-
ties within the past few weeks, involving the sailing of convoys from
this country to Great Britain.
In that connection, Mr. Birmingham, do you know whether or not
certain individuals have been apprehended by the British Govern-
ment and taken off ships, individuals known to have had contact with
Nancy Reed?
Mr. Bir^viingham, That is my understanding.
Mr. Matthews. You have been so informed by authoritative
sources ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes; reliable sources.
Mr, Matthews. We have a letter addressed to "Dear Nancy" from
Havana, Cuba, and signed "Eddie," which reads as follows :
Received .your letter and hei'e is something else for you. Because of the cool
response of the C. I. O. Maritime groups, and because of a letter received here
from ftlathew Woll of the A. F. of L., the plionies have succeeded in convincing
tlie groups to nial<e preparation to visit the states and see Green and also Ryan
of the New York Longshoremen. I liave been afraid of this all along and now
it's come out, although I've been asked to come along with them I really don't
know what I can do. Please see Al Lannon and give him this information.
God damnit, after all our work, it now does seem like sabotage on our part,
because where we did not even send an official letter wishing them success the
A. F. of L. did, now that does look bad. See what you can do.
P. S. : If you get back before my report gets to Lannon tell him that one is
on its way.
It is signed "Eddie."
I offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 59.")
Mr. Matthews. AI Lannon has been identified as a Comnmnist
Party member openly, having been a candidate for the Communist
8820 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Party ticket in New York, and as being one of the Connnunist Party
leaders in tlie National Maritime Union.
This letter in the handwriting of Eddie Gordon discloses that Nancy
Reed is in touch with Al Lannon. It may be observed, Mr. Chairman,
that Al Lannon's fears about the A. F. of L. taking over the shipping
union were unfounded. The National Maritime Union did succeed in
handling the situation to the satisfaction of Eddie Gordon as expressed
in this letter.
Another letter to Nancy Reed from Eddie Gordon, signed in his
own handwriting reads in part as follows :
I would appreciate it very mucli if you talk to Blackie Myers or somebody up
there and really explain the importance of maintaining what we have done
down here, and push for a convention of all labor on the American Continent,
then and only then can we really have Continental Solidarity and pan-American
unity capable of checking world reaction against the workers and the Democratic
peoples of the New World.
He has in parentheses : "This sounds good. I'll have to use it in my
next speech."
He continues :
Oh, yes, before I forget. I received a letter from Joe Lewis and he asked me
to write to you and explain the why and wherefore of his not coming up to see
you.
Can you identify this Joe Lewis ?
Mr. Birmingham. I don't know who Joe Lewis is.
Mr. Matthews. It is not "the" Joe Lewis ?
Mr. Birmingham. No.
Mr. Matthews. It is not the pugilist, is it ?
Mr. Birmingham. No.
Mr. Matthews. The Joe Lewis here has not been identified.
Gordon continues:
It is not because he does not want to. He tells me that after what you done
for him he would rather cut off his right arm than to have you think that way,
but because Teddy thinks that he has an ulterior motive is the reason why he is
staying away.
I see, Mr. Chairman, that gets into a personal angle.
I offer this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It is so ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 60.")
Mr. Matthews. In other words, there are two Lewises involved in
the life of Miss Reed and they are both referred to in this particular
section of the letter.
Mr. Birmingham, will you explain these two documents?
Mr. Birmingham. That is a letter from the Communist leader of
the Maritime Union, Juan Arevelo.
Mr. Matthews. These two documents, these two j^hotostatic copies
of penciled notes appear to be from Juan Arevelo, a Communist
leader of the National Maritime Union in Cuba, is that correct?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. I offer these in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. They will be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 61.")
UN-AMKKICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8821
Mr. Matthews. jNIr. Binnin<ihani, do you have reason to believe
Miss Reed has been api)rehensive lest tlie facts which these docu-
ments disclose become known — do you have reason to believe Miss
Reed has been fearful this information was goin*; to get out ?
Mr. Birmingham. What do you mean — at this time?
Mr. Matihev/s. Yes.
Mr. Birmingham. I don't think she had any idea it would ever
get out the way it was planted.
Mr. Matthews. Well, I show you a little document and ask you
if that is a photostatic copy of a letter which had been torn up?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
INIr. Matthews. And which came from the effects of Nancy Reed?
Mr. Birmingham. Not of these documents. This refers to her
troubles in the State Welfare Department and with William R.
Heai'st.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, this letter is addressed "Mother,*'
and is dated March 4, 1941. It is signed by "N." .
Is this the handwriting of Nancy Reed?
Mr. Bir^iingham. Yes; and it was in her effects.
Mr. Matthews (reading:)
The time has come. Dirty W. Hearst's reporters are phoning me and my
office to know if you are my mother ! I haven't met with them yet, but am
waiting for "good advice" right now.
It cannot be helijed and what will be will he. I will keep you informed ;
but I wouldn't be your daughter if I were afraid of the futiu"e.
Got to "Anise" last night, but she had no news of Mary at all.
It is signed : "Love, N."
This is dated IMarch 4, 1941.
Mr. Birmingham, you have testified that Nancy Reed is the daugh-
ter of Ferdinanda Reed, one of the owners of the Daily Worker?
Mr. Birmingham. Correct.
jNIr. Matthews. Do you know whether or not Ferdinanda Reed
disclosed the identity of her children to the press at the time she
became one of the owners of the Daily Worker ?
Mr. Birmingham. She didn't disclose Nancy. She did her daugh-
ter Mary. She said nothing about her son or Nancy Reed.
Mr. IVIatthews. You have gone into the press reports of the time
and find when the reporters asked her about it, she stated to the press
that she had a child, Mary, in Moscow, but said nothing about Nancy
or her sou Williard. Junior?
Mr. Birmingham. That is right, except it was Leningrad at that
time.
Mr. ^Matthews. I ofl'er this in evidence.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received,
(The letter referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 62.")
Mr. ^Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, here are four more documents
that relate to Nancy Reed's visit to Cuba. Can you identify those as
documents which you obtained?
Mr. Bir:mingha:m. I can.
Mr. Matthews. The first of the documents is a memorandum on the
Principal American Monopolist Companies and Their Investments
in Cuba; the second is a report addressed to the secretary of the
Syndicate of AVorkers of the Cuban Mining Co. ; the next is a letter
8822 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
addressed to '"Dear Nancy" and sit^ned : "Domiiifro J Ziiniga, 409
Menocal Avenue, Havana, Cuba."
The letter reads :
You will excuse me because I didn't answer you as soou as you wish. I were
so busy not only working for myself but doing some working for the Party.
I suppose Dorothy Rehm are seeing you already. I did all I could for her
down here.
When Gordon left he told me he will go to see you. I recommended him tell
you send with him a good fountain pen second hand or new, either ; because
you know here are to expensive. I ask you that like comrade. I don't use to
do that. In case you want an.ything from Havana let me know it.
My best regards for yoiu- dear Ted and from you all the warm from my
heart.
That is signed : "Sincerely yours, Domingo J. Zuniga, 409 Menocal
Avenue. Habana, Cuba."
Do you know wliether or not Dorothy Kehm has been identified,
Mr. Birmingham ?
Mr. Birmingham. She is an employee of the Division of Place-
ment, Unemployment Insurance, New York State Department of
Health.
Mr. JNIatthews. I offer these photostats in evidence, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Staknes. They will be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 63.")
Mr. Mattheavs. You say she is an employee of the State Depart-
ment of Labor for the State of New York ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. And from this letter it would apj^ear that Dorothy
Kehm had visited Cuba and was given contact with the author of
this letter by Nancy Reed before she went down there?
Mr. Birmingham. Correct.
Mr. Matthews. And the author of the letter informs Nancy he
has been busy working for the party, and also makes a reference to
Gordon, the 'Eddie Gordon of the National Maritime Union, "who
is on his way to New York," and asks him to bring him back a
fountain pen?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Mattheavs. Mr. Birmingham, did you ascertain that Nancy
Reed is vice president of local 28 of the State, County, and Municipal
Workers of America ?
Mr. Birmingham. I understand that that is correct.
Mr. Matthews. I show you a letter on the letterhead of the union
and ask if that was among the documents which you obtained ?
Mr. Birmingham. It was.
Mr. Matthews. We have a number of documents here, Mr. Chair-
man, Avhich relate to Nancy Reed's activities in this particular trade-
union, and Mr. Chairman, "this is one of the unions affiliated with the
C. I. O. which has been identified before this committee on numerous
occasions, as having a large element of Coimnunist leadership en-
trenched in it.
Here are Iavo publications. One is called "The Employment
Worker" and the other is entitled, "Active File." The first is issued
"by Communist Party members in the division of placement and
unemployment insurance." That is the Department of Labor of the
State of NeAv York.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8823
The second is issued by tlie Conimnnist Party members in the di-
vision of ])hicement and unemployment insurance in the Department
of Labor, New York State.
Apparently the comrades changed the name of the publication in
between issues.
These are shop papers of which the Communist Party publishes
hundreds and they all follow the same general pattern.
Mr. Starnes. Do you oif er those as exhibits ?
INIr. INIatthews. Yes.
Mv. Starnes. Without objection they atIII be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 64.")
Mv. Matthews. Was this document obtained by you from theelfects
of Nancy Reed?
Mr. I^IRMINGHAIM. It WRS.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, here is a document wliich is a tabu-
lation of names. It is divided into four columns. The first column
is the name of the individual, the second column the office address,
the third column is headed "Function U & P," and the fourth column
is headed "Remarks."
I might say that the column headed "Function U & P" means their
union affiliation and party affiliation.
Among these individuals we find the name of Nancy Reed and her
office address is given here as 79 ^Madison Avenue.
Under "U" it is stated "vice president" and we know that she is
vice president of this union. Under "P" or party, it states "ex-officio
bureau."
Mr. Birmingham, do you loiow whether or not all or most of these
individuals named in this tabulation are emplo3'ees of the Department
of Labor of the State of New York ?
Mr. Birmingham. I haven't checked to the present time but at that
time they were.
Mr. Matthews. At which time?
Mr. Birmingham. When this was made out and we figured that
around 1938.
Mr. Matthew^s. In other words, you ascertained that at the time
this document was drawn up the persons named therein were em-
ployees of the Department of Labor of the State of New York?
Mr. Birmingham. Correct.
Mr. INIatthews. Mr. Chairman, we had a large collection of minutes
in the handwriting of Nancy Reed this morning which appeared to
be minutes of the fraction meeting within the trade-union of the De-
partment of Labor of the State of New York. This would seem to
be a tabulation of the members of the fraction in that union. Most
of the individuals whose names appear here are indicated as having
party activities, although some of them are said to have no party
activity.
Their names are Morris linger, William Bernstein, Dorothy Rehm,
Dorothy Baskin, Dorothy Ryder, Ed Wilde, Nancy Reed, Clara Nezin,
Raymond Bunin. Al Kramer, Janet Wolfe, Lillian Ei)stein. Gerald
English, Peter Arthur. Rachel Gordon, Eve Ott, Ralo Chadwick, Rose
Bori.skin, Frieda Geller, David Kugler. Mary Dworkas, Rose Robbins,
Archie Shaw, Sam Risk, Anne Slobotkin, Louise Guriy, Rosalyn Bad-
ner, Stella Eberlin, Sylvia Tauben, Dorothy Martin, Henry Levitan,
8824 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Joe Baiim, Michael Divornitski, John Davis, Franklin Folsom, and
Reva Galatz.
Mr, Starnes. Dr. Matthews, I understand Mr. Schmidt, deputy
commissioner of labor for the State of New York, is present.
Let me suggest you hand him that list of names and let him study
them and after a moment we can use him as a witness.
Mr. Matthews. First, Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer this as
an exhibit.
Mr. Starnes. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 65.")
Mr. Starnes. Is that the last of the exhibits, Dr. Matthews?
Mr. Matthews.. These are the last, Mr. Chairman, and I can give
you a brief explanation as to what they contain.
Mr. Starnes. I suggest we have Mr. Birmingham identify them,
and then you can give us a brief resume and have them attached as
exhibits.
Mr. Matthews. Did you personally make these photostats, Mr.
Birmingham ?
Mr. Birmingham. I did.
Mr. Matthews. You made these photostats from the originals which
are in the committee's possession ?
Mr. Birmingham. Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Birmingham, of these remaining documents we
have numerous references to front organizations of the Communist
Party, such as the Medical Bureau and North American Committee
to Aid Spanish Democracy, the Norman Tallentire Celebration, the
American Peace Mobilization, and so forth. Are you familiar with
these documents?
Mr. Birmingham. I am.
Mr. Matthews. And do they disclose the fact that Nancy Reed did
have a certain measure of connection with these front organizations
of i he Comnumist Party ?
Mr. Birmingham. An absolute connection.
Mr. Matthews. The remaining documents from No. 117 to 161,
inclusive, have to do with Ferdinanda Reed's ownership of the Daily
Worker, together with a voluminous correspondence of an early post-
war date between the Reed sisters on the one hand and high Com-
munist Party functionaries on the other hand, showing that as far
back as the first World War these two young ladies, who were then
students at Radcliffe College, had become engaged in revolutionary
activities.
Mr. Birmingham, in that connection can you state that the au-
thors, the Reed sisters, are in close touch with Louis Fraina?
Mr. Birmingham. One of those letters says so.
Mr. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, Louis C. Fraina was the first Ameri-
can ever appointed to the Comnmnist International by Lenin per-
sonally immediately after the World War. Fraina was the one Ameri-
can member of the Communist International at that time. He was
at that time, while traveling considerably abroad, residing in Boston,
and this correspondence discloses the fact that the Reed sisters, who
must have been rather young then, and who were students of Rad-
cliffe College, were in close personal touch with Fraina.
UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 8825
This is the first Communist book ever published in the United
States which was written by Louis C. Fraina. That book was
published in 1918. Fraina was the first editor of the first Com-
munist magazine in the United States.
Mr. Starnes. Will it appear from the correspondence and the
documents on file that the Reed sisters had intimate contact with
leaders of the party in this country from 1917 or 1918, or from
their college days on down to the present time?
Mr. Matthew^s. From the earliest days, and this correspondence,
which is rather voluminous here, Mr. Chairman, does not show a
merely casual connection between the Reed sisters and these Com-
munist Parry functionaries, but a veiy close working relationship.
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. The young ladies had committed themselves to
various strike activities led by the Communists in Massachusetts and
pledged themselves in their letters to revolutionize Radcliffe Col-
lege, and various other sentiments of that sort.
Since that time, as we know, their mother, Ferdinanda Reed has
become one of the owners of the Daily Worker.
Mr. Starnes, And one of the daughters resides in the Soviet
Union ?
Mr. Matthews, That is correct, Mr. Chairman, and one of the
letters from Mary Reed in the Soviet Union to Nancy Reed in the
United States has to do with an intended visit of Ferdinanda Reed
to the Soviet Union, and Mary advises her sister to be sure that
their mother brings with her to the Soviet Union credentials showing
that she is a charter member of the Communist Party.
Mr. BiRMiNCxHAM. Otherwise she wouldn't see anything.
Mr, Matthews. In other words, if she brings these credentials
showing she is a charter member of the Communist Party
Mr. Starnes. And this correspondence shows without a shadow of
doubt, and the other documents you have on file, that Nancy Reed
and Mary Reed are sisters?
Mr. Matthews. That is correct.
Mr. Birmingham. Yes, sir.
Mr. Starnes. And are the daughters of Ferdinanda Reed ?
Mr. Birmingham. There is no question about that. There are
letters from the mother to each of them.
Mr. Matthews, Now, Mr, Birmingham, this morning I asked you
about the signer of a letter, who signed himself "Len," Was his last
name Wincott?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And you have reason to believe that Len Wincott,
who is a Communist Party functionary in England
Mr. Birmingham. Scotland.
Mr. Matthews, Became the husband of Mary Reed?
Mr, Birmingham, On August 17, 1933,
]Mr, Matthews. On August 17, 1933, he became the husband of
Mary Reed in the Soviet Union; is that correct?
Mr. Birmingham. That is correct.
Mr. Matthews. And this letter discloses that fact?
Mr. Birmingham. That shows that; yes, sir,
Mr. ]\Iatthe\v8. That is a part of the record already.
8826 UN-AMERICAN PROPA<]!ANDA ACTIVITIES
That is all with this witness, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. Your next witness is Mr. Schmidt?
Mr. Matthews. Yes.
TESTIMONY OF GODFREY SCHMIDT, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, NEW
YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR
Mr. Starnes. Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Schmidt, Yes.
Mr. Matthews. Will you please give us your full name and
address ?
Mr. Schmidt. Godfrey Schmidt. I live at 3235 Grand Concourse
in the Bronx. I am deputy industrial commissioner in the State de-
partment of labor, concentrating on legal problems there. I am a
lawyer by profession.
Mr. Matthews. How long have you been connected with the
department?
Mr. Schmidt. I have been connected with the department some 3
years and 4 months. I have been deputy about 2 years and 4 months.
Mr. Matthews. Do you know Nancy Keed ?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes; t do.
Mr. Matthews. Is she employed by the State department of labor?
Mr. Schmidt. Technically she is still employed. Her dismissal
becomes effective on August 15, she having had sent to her a notice
of dismissal dated July 11.
Mr. Matthews. How long has she been employed by the State
department ?
Mr. Schmidt. As I recall it, since about 1936.
Mr. Matthews. In what capacity?
Mr. Schmidt. As senior employment interviewer.
Mr. Matthews. And as such, of course, I presume as a matter of
fact that her reports and recommendations with reference to those
who were applying for positions would naturally carry weight?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes. I am not too familiar with the workers of
the division of placement and unemployment insurance because that
division is equipped with its own legal staff and it is quite by accident
that I have contact with it, so I wouldn't be able to testify as to the
exact work of her department.
Mr. Matthews. But generally speaking, the nature of it is such
as to help place people in different positions?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. Starnes. You heard the list of names read a moment ago which
purposed to be members of a certain union or a Communist Party
fraction, who were employees or were alleged to be employees of the
State department of labor. Have you had an opportunity to check
the records since they were read or check the names ?
Mr. Schmidt. I have read over that list but I haven't had an oppor-
tunity to check that list with our personnel list because I don't have
such a list with me. The only names I was able to recognize as
UN-AMr]RICAN Plid'ACANDA ACTIVITIES 8827
present employees of the division of ])lacement are Doi-othy Rehm,
Dorothy Ilyder. Nancy Rood, Janet Wolfe, and Halo Chadwick.
Mr. Staknes. But you do Avithout havinij; in your })ossession at the
present time the personnel records, recognize those names and parties
as beintr emj^loyed by the State department?
Mr. ScHMun'. Yes, sir.
Mr. Stakxes. Are there any proceedings against Nancy Reed now by
the State department of labor in New York, and if so, what are they
and under what authority?
Mr. Schmidt. There are proceedings to prove that she is ineligible
under section 12-A of the New York State civil-service law, which is
popidarly known as the Devaney Act. That act, as you probably know,
has for its i^urpose to denominate as ineligible for civil service, persons
who spread and advocate revolutionary doctrines; the violence or forc-
ible or illegal overthrow of our form of government, and also persons
who foster membei'ship in or Avho become members of a revolutionary
I)arty having sucli revolutionary aims.
Mr. Starxes. Is it under the provisions of that act that she is being
suspended or discharged from the department, effective August 15?
]\Ir. Schmidt. Yes, sir. That is to say the notice to her dated July
11, 1941, charged her with ineligibility under section 12-A of the civil-
service law of the State of New York.
Mr. Starnes. Thank you very much, Mr. Schmidt. We appreciate
your responding to the subpena and we want to say to you that if the
committee can be of assistance to you and the State department of
New York, the department of labor of New York, in furnishing you
evidence from our files which will enable you to employ only those who
are interested in })resei'ving the ty})e of government that we have at the
present time, and to oust from positions of official responsibility and
power those who do not believe in our form of government, we are oidy
too happy to do so.
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. I only wish that other States would adopt such a law.
I have advocated such openly, that the Federal Government and the
respective States take such action and enact legislation Avhich would
make it possible for only American citizens who believe in the Ameri-
can foi-m of government to occupy and hold positions of responsibility
in the administrative or executive branches of the Government.
Mr. Mason. However, Mr. Chairman, as long as a State recognizes
the Communist Party as a i)o]itical party and permits them to place
their candidates on the ballot, it seems to me that that State cannot
very well, to be consistent, bar them from the ballot as well as bar them
from jol)s.
Mr. Starnes. Is that all. Dr. Matthews?
Mr. _MAT^HE;^vs. I would like to offer this collection of documents,
identified by Mr. Birmingham as an exhibit.
Mr. Stai;xks. They will be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Birmingham Exhibit
No. 66.")
Mr. Matthews. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Starnes. The comniitlec will remain in executive session for a
moment, but the hearing is adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 3:30 p. m., the hearing was concluded.)
[For release 4 p. m. eastern standard time, Tuesday, Soptcinber 10, 1940]
Report of the Full Committee of the Special Committee on
Un-American Activities, Congressman Joe Starnes Pre-
siding, ON THE Carl Byoir Matter
Oil June 6 last this committee initiated an investigation with
respect to allegations of un-American activity which had been made
against Carl Byoir, president of Carl Byoir and Associates, by Wright
Patman, a Member of Congress, on the floor of the House of
Representatives.
The chairman of the committee, Mr. Dies, appointed Mr. Dempsey,
of New Mexico; Mr. Casey, of Massachusetts, and Mr. Mason, of
Illinois, as a subcommittee to investigate the matter. Competent
investigators of this committee were assigned to make a thorough
investigation of all of the charges. At the same time the Federal
Bureau of Investigation of the Department of Justice undertook a
separate and independent investigation. On July 16, 1940, the
Department of Justice issued the following statement:
The investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation concerning allega-
tions against Carl Byoir disclosed no evidence whatsoever that he has engaged
in any un-American activity. No basis for departmental action has been found,
and the case is regarded as closed.
The subcommittee also had for consideration all of the evidence
presented before the McCormack committee with respect to a con-
tract made by Mr. Byoir with the German Federal Railroads for the
promotion of trade and travel in 1933, which was canceled by him
in 1935. The committee does not believe that it is within its province
to go behind the findings of fact nor the recommendations of the
McCormack committee in this matter. The committee, therefore,
has confined itself to events subsequent thereto. It might be men-
tioned in this connection that the evidence shows that the contract
was entered into for the promotion of trade and travel at a time when
our Government was doing everything possible to promote trade
relations with Germany.
On July 15, 1940, the subcommittee, after a study of all of the evi-
dence, unanimously submitted to the chairman the following report:
The subcommittee you appointed to investigate the charges of un-American
activities made against Carl Byoir after carefully going over the report by Mr.
Stedman and also after consulting the files of FBI in the case find nothing to
justify the cliargps made, nor any evidence that could possibly form a basis for
such charges. We therefore find satisfaction in clearing Mr. Carl Byoir of tlie
charges made against him and recommend that a resolution covering a complete
exoneration of Mr. Byoir be voted by the full committee as soon as possible, such
resolution to be based upon the subcommittee's report. We also believe in fairness
to Mr. Byoir immediate publicity should be given to the subcommittee's findings.
8820
8830 UN-AMERICAN I'ROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Subsequently, Mr. Patman registered a complaint on the floor of
the House to the effect that he had not been heard by the subcom-
mittee, although his charges had been set forth in three addresses on
the floor of the House, all available to the subcommittee. Accord-
ingly, Mr. Patman was given an opportunity to be heard before a
meeting of the full committee held on Thursday, August 29. He
made a complete statement of his position in this matter. Mr. Pat-
man presented no new material evidence. Mr. Byoir appeared and
was examined concerning the charges made against him.
The full committee adopts the report of its subcommittee fully
exonerating Mr. Byoir of any charges reflecting on his Americanism
or loyalty to the Government of the United States.
UN-AMEniCAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES ggg J
The following coiimiunicat ions 6f denial and explanation 'haVe
been received by .th<J tomniittee and ai'ie included in the. recprdj^tt
this point. ^
May 30, 1941.
Spkcial Committehj; to Investigate Un-Ameirican AcTivi'niEs,
House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.
Gentlemkn : Although I have repeatedly requested that my name be removed
from the mailing lists of certain organizations now being investigated by your
Connnittee, I am still receiving literature from some of them and my name, there-
fore, may be on some mailing list. I am completely in accord with the foreign
policy and national defense program of this country and I am not a member of,
nor do I wish to be in any way associated with, any organization or group which
advocates a contrary position. Therefore, if my name appears on any list ob-
tained by your Committee, of persons allegedly associated with such organiza-
tions, I request that it be stricken therefrom.
Moreover, believing that an isolationist policy is neither sound nor moral,
I have given money for Chinese, Finnish, Spanish, Czechslovaliian, British, etc.,
relief and have signed petitions to the Congress urging an embargo against all
aggressor nations and the rendering of all pos.sible aid to the victims of
agression.
Very truly yours,
(Signed) Luoy L. Kellet,
Mrs. Ogdeu A. Kelley,
310 East-West Highivaij, Chevy Chase, Maryland.
Copies to :
Hon. Jerry Voorhis.
Mr. Laurence A. Welch.
May 31, 1941.
The Dies CoirMiTXEE,
Washhigton. D. C.
Gentlemen : The so-called testimony before The Dies Committee, as reported
in the newspapers, stated that I, an employee of the Navy Yard, was an active
member in the A. P. M. This is absolutely untrue and without any foundation
whatsoever. Anyone making any such statement to this effect is a cowardly and
malicious liar.
People reading this implicating lie have already threatened to cause me to
lose my job.
This letter is intended for your records.
Yours very truly.
(Signed) Chas. T. Gift.
1227 Queens Street NE., Washington, D. C.
Copyright Office,
The Library of Congress,
Washington, D. C, April 7, lOJfl.
Honorable Martin Dies, M. C.
Chairtnan of the Committee on iin-American Activities.
House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.
Del\r Mr. Chairman : About a year and a half ago your Committee released
information concerning Government employees who were allegedly members of
organizations that practiced un-American activities, and my name was included
therein.
I called at the oflSce of your Secretary, as a result of advice he gave a friend
of mine, but I was unable to find him there.
I have not done anything more about this matter; but recently I was advised
to write you this letter.
I have not at any time during my whole life belonged to any organization what-
ever, social, political, fraternal, or religious, except my church, and I have not
directly or indirectly niadt- any financial or other contribution to any organiza-
tion, other than my church ; and. strange as it may seem, I do not belong to any
auxiliary of my church.
(;l'G26 — 41 — vol. 14 4.3
8832 UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES
Moreover, I have not directly or indirectly authorized the use of my name in
connection with any organization whatever, including organizations that have
for their purpose the promotion of American or un-American activities.
It is requested that this communication be made a part of your record containing
my name.
Sincerely yours,
(Signed) Matthew Lyons.
X
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